Jamie Siminoff (1:31)

Missouri.

Shaun Puri (1:32)

I'm from Missouri, my friend. Where? St. Louis.

Jamie Siminoff (1:35)

So I. My farm is in LaBelle, Missouri. So I'm in. I'm from Missouri. You're from Missouri. You're more like a city folk. But we are two and a half hours north of St. Louis.

Sam Parr (1:46)

Dude. I love how he just out Missouri ed you, even though you were actually born and raised there. And he just actually was like, you're a city slicker. Not a real true Missourian.

Jamie Siminoff (1:55)

We don't like you folks.

Shaun Puri (1:56)

This is like going to like Tony Soprano and being like, actually, Tony, it's brisket.

Sam Parr (2:03)

So let me tee this up. All right. So I did a call with Jamie, and it was super fun. Jamie Created if you've ever seen a doorbell that has a camera on it. This is the inventor, this is the man who did it. He created Ring Doorbell, grew it, sold it to Amazon for tons of money. And I was like, hey, I want to kind of have you on the podcast and brainstorm business with you. I want to see how you think, how do you approach businesses? And he's like, I believe. I don't know the exact quote, but it was something like, you know, ideas are like my drug of choice. And he's like, I have this list on my phone of like thousands of ideas. Which one do you want? Yeah, exactly. And so, so I want to do that. Sam, you saw the doc that he sent over, which is. Gives us kind of bullet point ideas. We don't know what he's going to say, but bullet point ideas. Where do you want to start?

Shaun Puri (2:49)

Wait, can I ask a question before we get in? How much? You sold it for like a billion dollars, right?

Jamie Siminoff (2:54)

1.15. But I mean, if you want to, you can round down if you want to. I mean.

Shaun Puri (2:58)

Okay, okay. So we're talking to a guy who, you know, you have a billion dollar.

Sam Parr (3:02)

Company after his decimal point is worth more than our entire career so far.

Jamie Siminoff (3:06)

I think you have to find out I did sell it for a billion when a billion was a lot of money.

Sam Parr (3:10)

Just, just back when billion was cool.

Jamie Siminoff (3:11)

Back when a billion was actually like, you could buy more than a cup of coffee with it.

Sam Parr (3:14)

Well, can we actually go to that story? Do you remember kind of where you. I guess I'm always curious about two things. One, was there a good negotiation story or like a throw out a number story of like, how do you arrive at that 1.15 billion and then like, how did that come about?

Jamie Siminoff (3:29)

I mean, what was cool with Amazon is, you know, from the, the. We had been working with them on stuff for years. So, like I, I actually went to Amazon and showed this guy, Nick Comoros, the ring before we launched Ring, because we had been talking to him. They were with Alexa and stuff. They were looking at sort of, they were trying to reach out to all the small Iot people at the time. There was a lot of little hardware things bubbling up. So I, I even like, literally like brought them the first one and showed it to them. So we had been working together for a long time. We were very, like, aligned on like, mission, what we're trying to do. They started to look at video realizing, like, with Alexa they had, you know, the kind of the. Call it the ears in the home. And they started to see the eyes and saw what we were doing. We had this, you know, kind of, like, dating awkward because we. We would talk all the time. We'd meet and, you know, Nick said, let me come down and let's have lunch, which was kind of not that abnormal. And we're sitting there, and it's like, you know, we should kind of go to the next level here. And it was this, like, very funny, like, dating conversation of, like, you know, it's like, where you don't want to just, like, jump out and be like, okay, let's do it. You know, it's like. And it's like, do what? You know, so. So it's like we keep going back and forth. Like, two, you mean? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, two. And like, we kept going back, and then he finally said, yeah, like, it's time. We should combine. And, you know, not. Not a merger of equals, by the way, but that Amazon should buy you.

Shaun Puri (4:49)

What was your revenue then?

Jamie Siminoff (4:50)

Do you know? We were with. So that was 2017. So we. That year we did 4. 480 million.

Shaun Puri (4:56)

Okay, so you guys are just huge.

Sam Parr (4:58)

Was it a profitable business or were you burning money? And you had to figure out.

Jamie Siminoff (5:01)

Here's what's so interesting is, like, it was the, like, the. The. Of each, like, the individual customer economics were insanely good. So the fund, like, the fundamentals of the business, like, the actual, like, business was good. It was growing so fast that, like, money was just being lit on fire everywhere. And it's not that we, like, we had crappy offices. Like, it's just you have to hire so fast to get ahead. Just think about, like, customer service when you're growing at, like, 500% a year. And if customer service takes three to six months, like a person you hire to get up to speed, that means you're hiring, like, 2 to 3x what you need at that exact time.

Shaun Puri (5:42)

Yeah.

Jamie Siminoff (5:43)

Just so that you can like, not blow up as people are buying and the growth. So you're just. You're just, like, putting out all this cash to do this stuff. So, I mean, you start to think about it. It sounds cool. But then, like, when you're doing 170 million and you're ordering for 480 million, it means, like, if anything slows down, I mean, you are just like. You're dead.

Sam Parr (6:03)

Right.

Jamie Siminoff (6:03)

It's like, on one side. Yeah. I'm sitting there with Nick, and I have this. I have a $480 million year business that's growing, you know, triple digits still like literally triple digits at that, at that scale, which is insane. And the other side is like, and I'm going out of business every day. Like every day I'm facing basically like the wall. Like we're going to hit the wall. And the only way to stop that is you raise a little money, you get a little financing, something else comes in like, so it was getting to a point where I just couldn't handle it. I was, you know, I was sort of, the stress was getting to me. I mean it was, you know, it was years of just like that. And then we kind of got into, started to get into negotiation during the negotiation. And so I wrote this book and part of why I wrote the book is like the story, I mean it's like a bit of a longer story, which is why a book is good. But during the negotiation I get sued by adt, probably for something that was a little bit self induced to be fair. They win an injunction and literally, I mean, and this is like, holly, you can't make this up. Nick calls me and he's, you know, I'm going to send you a term sheet over, you know, tomorrow morning, just FYI. Great. An hour later the injunction hits us. I have to call Nick back and be like, hey, just FYI, like, not a big deal at all. Doesn't, you know, shouldn't matter, like, shouldn't matter at all. But like, just like as a FYI, we did get an injunction from ADT on this lawsuit and he's like, dude, we're out.

Shaun Puri (7:31)

Wow. And what does that mean? So ADT was suing you for, for what?

Jamie Siminoff (7:35)

So we had been building an alarm. They had a, like a company that they had some part of that they were sort of invested in that was building it. They stopped funding it. The company went out of basically shut down. I hired all the people from there. They told me I couldn't hire all the people from there. I told them in a very respectful way, know, I said like, you know, please and thank yous. No, I was like a total asshole. And I was like so dumb. And I just like I, I again, I, I.

Sam Parr (8:04)

You poked the bear.

Jamie Siminoff (8:05)

I poked the bear. And it's like looking back, it's funny because it's this, that same like insanity and passion that like gets a company to go from 170 to 480 is also the person that blows it up. It's like, you know, it is like the demolition man of like, you know, it's the same Person that can use the demolition to, like, clear the way for the road is also who can, like, blow everything up for everyone.

Sam Parr (8:27)

It's my favorite Elon thing of all time when he goes on Saturday Night Live and he goes, you know, I took all my money and I spent it on trying to get rockets that will take us to Mars and electric cars. And he's like, what did you think? I'll just be a normal, chill dude. And it's like, oh, actually, that explains so much. Of course, we can't have one. We can't have mad genius. And then also, you know, stable, respectful, peaceful, reasonable man over here. It can't be unreasonable in one area and totally reasonable in the other.

Jamie Siminoff (8:55)

And I think that's the problem is, like, it's just true. Like, if you want to do something, I mean, Ring is a one in a whatever generation company. And like, I say that as someone who, like, looks at it, and I can't believe I'm even part of it. Like, it's incredible. I mean, it's. It's a ver. Like, people just call it a ring. Like, it's. It's. I mean, to build something like, that is incredible. And so, yes, like, you probably have some traits that are very strong, but those can cut both ways. And so, you know, when the person from ADT calls you and you're like, think, you know, like, you're like, in this sort of vortex of doing stuff, you know, maybe you don't sort of take the time to say, like, why don't I just come to you? Why don't we sit down like, we're two humans and work this out? And by the way, I'm. It'd be funny to, like, now go back. Like, I'm sure if I had just flown there, sat down for dinner with them, I really actually feel like they probably just like, like, fine, whatever, we're good. Like, we just wanted to, like, talk, you know, like, we just wanted to talk to you. Instead, I was like, you know, like, lunatic, you know, doing stuff. And they sort of said, well, why don't we teach you some business? And so they. They did. And to be fair, like, whatever. And so that. That was very, you know, turned out to be fairly painful.

Shaun Puri (10:06)

All right, so you guys are about to get to the best part of the podcast. This is the part where we asked Jamie how he comes up with new ideas for businesses, how he came up with the idea of Ring, but also a lot of the other projects that he's looking into starting, and he's got this amazing name, so called the Snowball Method, meaning he likes to find very small ideas that can eventually become big. But the problem is that these ideas are so small that people don't notice them or they forget about them. And so here's what we did. We went and looked at what he's going to talk about on this podcast, which you're going to hear because you're going to get to it. But then he's talked about the Snowball Method on a bunch of other podcasts and we went and broke it down into a really easy to understand methodology. And so if you're interested in solving these four questions, this guide, it's for you. So it's how do you spot billion dollar ideas hiding inside boring problems? Number two, what early stage moves actually validated ring before it took off? Number three, how you keep momentum when your business feels stuck or you're on the brink. And number four, what critical decisions make or break a founder's path from $200 to $1 billion. And so if this type of thing interests you, which I think it does because you're listening to my first million, you can get the link in the description below.

Sam Parr (11:07)

So you call the guy, you're like, hey, feel silly even bringing this up, but there's a little lawsuit you should probably know about. And then they, he's like, we're out.

Jamie Siminoff (11:16)

Out.

Sam Parr (11:16)

And you're thinking, well, look, you drafted the term sheet anyways, just go ahead and send it over. And he's like, no, no, no, we're out. So how did it go back on?

Jamie Siminoff (11:23)

I said, why don't we just keep the negotiation going and like, you know, if I settle this thing out, then, like, we're good. He's like, dude, we're not. Like, Amazon's like, not done. Like, it's, it's like basically like pencils down until you.

Sam Parr (11:33)

Whatever.

Jamie Siminoff (11:34)

On the flip side, which was great, is I had a safety net. So, like, don't worry, I'm totally fine. Like, I'm going into this Amazon deal with a safety net, which is if we don't do the Amazon deal, I'm going to raise $200 million. So I also had to call them and say, just FYI, like, I know this deal, like, we're about to close it for this money. And just FYI, like, we had this little injunction on that little thing that I kind of said that was not going to be a big deal. And they're like, yeah, we're out too. It's like the two doors I was looking at is like, selling to Amazon or raising $200 million. It was the first time I was going to take secondary money off, so to actually take some money off the table and meaningful money, like, it would have been, like, real for me. And so those are, like, the two things I was like, sort of looking at going into the holidays, basically. And all of a sudden, both those doors evaporated and now we're negative, like 70 million in the bank because we didn't plan the cash flow because it was like, one of these doors is going to happen. You're not going to raise more money. Like, I mean, you're not going to raise like a third set of money. Like, you know, so. So all of a sudden we, like, go to, like, basically we are like, technically like a bankrupt company almost immediately.

Sam Parr (12:48)

Okay, go on. I'm hooked. So what happens? And more importantly, what's the conversation you have with yourself in that moment? Because I think, you know, there's what you did, but there's also what you said to yourself before you figured out what to do.

Jamie Siminoff (13:00)

Yeah, so what's the, like. So again, to traits that are good. Like, the one thing I do have which is probably, you know, has kept us from completely blowing the. The place up when things really hap. Like when things are really, really bad, I go into, like, a pilot checklist. Like, I am just like, dead pan calm. We gotta do this. We gotta do this. So I'm like, we have to. We're going in the holidays. Like, we have to sell everything. We have to, like, break every record. We have to, like, it's like, the only way to survive is just like, we gotta, like, do this. And we also have to stop paying our bills to anyone that can't, like, you know, actually like, tow us away.

Shaun Puri (13:35)

Right.

Jamie Siminoff (13:35)

And so we did that too, which was pretty. That was. And that's. That's not fun because, like, you're calling people that have worked, you know, vendors, and you're like, hey, listen, like, I. I know, but if you. If you, like, stop shipping this, we're dead. If we're dead, everything you've already sent is dead. Like, you know, it's just. It's a bit of, like, it. It. It's not a conversation you want to have.

Shaun Puri (13:55)

That's everyone's problem at that point.

Jamie Siminoff (13:57)

Yeah, it's horrible. Like, it's just. It's just like a bad. It's a bad situation.

Shaun Puri (14:01)

And then did the lawsuit go away?

Jamie Siminoff (14:03)

So we, like, we're going through whatever we. It's Crazy as we go through, you know, Black, Black, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, like that whole sort of week, we literally blow out like every, like everything's like Ring is just the. It's the product of the holidays. Like, it's the number one seller, best Buy. Like, it's just literally like on fire.

Sam Parr (14:22)

So by the way, on that, if this wasn't happening, how much less do you think in sales you would have had? You know, like percent wise, how much do you think you got extra? Just with the forcing function of necessity.

Jamie Siminoff (14:33)

At least there's definitely like, probably like low double like 10, 15. At least.

Shaun Puri (14:39)

@ least.

Sam Parr (14:39)

And was it just your intensity? Because it's like we have to. Or did you come up with a new idea? What'd you do?

Jamie Siminoff (14:44)

We did everything. Like every social post, every this, like, I mean, we just had people, like, we did like, yeah, you just like, you put it all in the field. Like, you just like send in your best, everybody. And so we just went crazy. But it. For sure, I think for sure that was a part of it. But we needed to, we needed to literally break every number, blow everything out. And still with that, it wasn't clear that we would live. It just felt like it was going to be more likely you'd live if you were blowing it out than not. And so we doing that. And then all of a sudden ADT calls and says, hey, would you like to talk settlement? It's like, imagine if you had, you know, if someone's like, literally like, you have no oxygen. You know, they're like, hey, would you like a little oxygen? You're like, I'd love some oxygen. And so we went and they were actually like, pretty, like, fair. And once we settled like that, like, everything else was amazing. It was this weird thing where like everything underneath was like the best ever. And we had this, just one cloud that, that, that moved everyone away. And as soon as that dissipated and went away, like, it was, you know, I mean, so we basically. It was like December 9th or something, you know, that we settle which on that fast.

Shaun Puri (16:02)

That's, that's really fast, right?

Jamie Siminoff (16:04)

So you go to this, like, it's this thing. You go to like this, this office where there's like two conference rooms and this, this judge, like a, a retired judge, basically walks back and forth between these like two conference rooms. Like, you're in one, they're in the other. And just, they just keep going back and forth all day. And then it's the craziest thing. Like, finally they're like, okay. And you're like, okay. And then you sign it and you're like, are this is done? And they're like, it's done. I'm like, done, done. Like, I kept. Like, it was like, like a. Like, you know, like a Laurel and Hardy. Like, done, done, done, done. And then, you know, I called. I literally, I called Amazon and just said, just FYI, settled. And they said, okay. Like, it was like, you know, like, that's all. Like, we love the business. We just didn't, you know, we didn't want to get involved in that. And so once it was settled, you know, that was like, December 9th or whatever. December 31st, we signed for 1.15 billion to sell it.

Shaun Puri (16:54)

Wait, so the deal closed 30 days later after.

Jamie Siminoff (16:57)

So we signed the LOI. Like the binding LOI. Like, literally like less than 30 days.

Shaun Puri (17:02)

So did you shop it around as well?

Jamie Siminoff (17:05)

I didn't for a number of reasons. The biggest one was I did not know of another buyer that would back our mission. So we were very missionary around making neighborhoods safer.

Sam Parr (17:19)

What were your interactions like with. With Jeff Bezos?

Jamie Siminoff (17:23)

So Jeff loves entrepreneurs so much that they've learned not to have him, you know, involved in the. In the purchasing. Because I think Jeff would just be like, I love you, man. Like, he's like, jeff's so great. And so. So I didn't actually. I mean, I had met him like once before, but I didn't really kind of know him. And so really, it was post deal that I got to, you know, really start to spend some time with him. And he is just one of the greatest people ever, for lots of reasons. I'd say the number one is he's just like a good human.

Sam Parr (17:52)

Do you have any good basis stories of like, you know, it's cause rare that you get to actually interact with or in your case, work with, because there's always levels to the game, right? I meet people who I think I'm doing great. Then I meet somebody, I'm like, wow, that person's got a different level of intensity or they're a different level of sharpness, or they ask a different style of question. And so you. But you don't know until you meet him, right? You don't even know what level 12 looks like until you see level 12.

Jamie Siminoff (18:15)

Yeah.

Sam Parr (18:16)

And so I'm just curious, like, did you have any moments like that with. With. With Bezos?

Jamie Siminoff (18:20)

Definitely, many, many moments. I'd say the biggest thing I took away from Jeff is he's the most positive person I've ever met in, like, the weirdest way, because he gets shit done. So it's not like he's like, just like, hey, good job, guys. You know, it's like. But he's able to just like, be so patient on things and just like, he, like, sees the future and he's just very patient and very positive. And so I've, I've tried to. It's definitely different than my personality. You know, I'm sort of more like, you know, punch a wall, kind of like run around, yell a little bit more like. It's just like kind of like, more like that. Like maybe like inventor passion. But he has taught me to sort of try to like, just be a little bit calmer and let things sort of work themselves out versus, like, forcing everything. I think maybe that's the biggest learning.

Shaun Puri (19:09)

And why have you stayed this. I mean, how. The. The deal was what, 10 years ago, five years ago?

Jamie Siminoff (19:13)

It's 2018, so. Seven. Seven years ago.

Shaun Puri (19:15)

Why. Why are you still there? I mean, obviously. I mean, money is probably a big part of it, but is there?

Sam Parr (19:21)

Oh, dude. Mission. He's going to say mission. I could bet anything he's going to say the mission.

Jamie Siminoff (19:27)

Money. No, you know, I actually. So in 2023, I ended up stepping down. I was just, you know, I. I'd taken the company almost 10x it from when we got to Amazon, brought it profitable. Like, I felt like I delivered like the package. I'm like, here it is.

Shaun Puri (19:45)

It's pretty amazing. So you grew it to 4 billion in revenue?

Jamie Siminoff (19:48)

Is that around there? Yeah.

Shaun Puri (19:50)

Oh, my gosh. That's wild.

Jamie Siminoff (19:52)

So it, you know, the thing just kept growing. It just kept like. It's just insane. And so I, I finally was just like, I am. I'm feeling like super burnt out on. Just thought like a whole thing. I stepped back and I. And I did realize I missed just. I just missed like, ring, like, I missed the, the mission. I missed what we're building. I love. Like, I'm an inventor at heart and being able to be at Amazon, you can invent at scale. So, you know, an inventor, the best thing for an inventor is like, see your invention out there. Yeah.

Shaun Puri (20:23)

But it's pretty amazing that like most inventors, I mean, I mean, there's many inventors that are successful at Dyson. There's, you know, Edison was a good businessman, but, you know, maybe. Maybe Musk would be an inventor. I'm not sure who else, but. But typically the stereotype of an adventure is someone who's got like two different matching socks and like, they don't like know how to do anything other than like invent and they're a little bit messy and whatever. But it sounds like you actually knew how to operate.

Jamie Siminoff (20:47)

I would say I've used invention around operation, but I don't operate. I certainly don't operate in a normal way. So like I've never had a staff meeting. Like everyone's always like, you know, what day do you do your, your staff meeting on? I'm like, none, because I've never had one. We never had an all hands meeting at the company. And like, so we. You do things when you need to. So there's a lot of things. Like I don't have those like processes of how to like run a business.

Shaun Puri (21:11)

Dude, you are exactly like, you know who. He's like, Sean 100%.

Sam Parr (21:15)

Who?

Shaun Puri (21:15)

Elon. The card game.

Sam Parr (21:18)

Yeah, Elon Lee. Yeah, Elon.

Shaun Puri (21:19)

Elon Lee. Oh man. He had the exact same mentality where he was like, yeah, we don't do this at the company. We're. Whereas Sean and I were like, wait, but I thought everyone had to do all hands. He's like, well, I thought about the reason why and we just invented a different way to do it. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Siminoff (21:33)

And I think if you can turn like again, like it's still inventing. Like it's like just like, just cause it's not a pro, like a physical product or just because it's internal doesn't mean it's not an invention. So I do love that like you can use invention across the board and especially like how you build the business. I would say, like, I mean, this is where Dyson, I think, and I don't, I don't know him, but he's like, he's like my mentor. I just. This is like the mentor. I don't know. But like, look at what Dyson's been able to do by having built a great business. Like, if he hadn't built a great business, he'd just be a guy in a, a barn somewhere in like Oxfordshire or some shit. And instead he's able to build all this crazy good stuff and have this company. So I think I did feel like the business was something you needed in order to be able to get your inventions out there bigger. And that's kind of what Ring has been. And then being at Amazon, that's just like a thousand X.

Sam Parr (22:25)

That was there a moment in those early days for Ring where it went from not working like it's not a thing to. It's a thing, like an inflection Point where, you know, or did it take off right away? As soon as you had the product, people started buying it.

Jamie Siminoff (22:37)

It's certainly, you know, looking back, it probably took off more than I thought because, like, being inside of it, you're sort of dealing with the problem, so you don't really see it as easily. Like, again, when I wrote the book, I kind of, like, was able to, like, go back and, like, think about all of what was happening and look at it in a different light. And so it was 2016. My wife was out trick or treating. I was away on something, and that was like, the year she called. And she's like, this is like, every house has a ring. She's like, this is insane. And I think you really felt it because they're literally trick or treating and they're, like, hitting the ring. Every house. So I think there was some moments like that.

Shaun Puri (23:19)

That's gotta be like, one of the most proud moments ever where you're like, my wife is seeing it.

Jamie Siminoff (23:23)

So, I mean, like, we. We would literally drive around, I mean, early, like, and yell. Like, when we saw a ring on a house, like, it was like, that was like a. And then we kind of had to stop the ring game because it, like. Like, it was like you just became yelling ring the whole time. But. But early on. Yeah, I mean, it's like. And as an inventor, like, that's. That was, you know, if I, I. I never felt like it was successful until we got the wire, just because I felt like it could blow up. But I did feel like I had created something meaningful and had that, like, satisfaction of that just by seeing, like, see someone's front door. And the stories that then they created, like, the, you know, stopping a crime, doing whatever, like, those. Those were the things that were like. That was amazing.

Sam Parr (24:04)

I'm curious. The wire hits. We've asked a bunch of people about this on the podcast because it's a, you know, it's a moment you look forward to as a founder. Like, like crazy. But, you know, it's hard to actually get there. And we've had some guys say, yeah, when the wire hit, you know, he's like, I went to the ATM the next five days just to print Balance. You know, never pushed that button before, but I was so excited. Or, you know, some people feel lost, you know, right afterwards, I guess, like, wire hits. What. Where were you and what was going through your mind?

Jamie Siminoff (24:31)

So I booked. I don't know if, you know, this company task us, but the. It's a great public company now. The founders are friends that were, you know, kind of kids from Santa Monica that I had known that started it. And they asked me to speak at their customer conference, like, six months earlier. And it was in New York, just, like, on whatever, some random day in April of 2018, because of how everything happens. Like, you sell, like, you finally announce it, then the government has to inspect it. Then even after that, there's. They have to file stuff and whatever. See, the actual wire date is not any of those dates. It's kind of a random time when it just comes. And so it ended up being like, I'm at this event, and I'm speaking in New York, and I'm sitting there, and I'm like, I'm sorry, everyone. Like, I'm like, my phone's out. I'm like. I'm like, I can barely even. Like, I'm like, just, like. I'm like, I'm just gonna keep refreshing this, because the wire is supposed to come in, and everyone know. Like, they knew I'd sold. So I'm like, the wire hasn't come in yet, but it's supposed to come in right now. And I just, like, I'm sorry, I keep, you know, Wells Fargo, you know, it's like.

Shaun Puri (25:34)

And you're, like, on stage, you're like, look, I know I was talking about customer service, but today I'm gonna. I'm gonna give a talk on how to get rich.

Jamie Siminoff (25:40)

Yeah, I'm like. And like, you know, money doesn't matter to me. It's all about mission. But, like. But, like, you know, hold on. The next hour. Yeah, it's like. Like, it's all. And. And literally, like, it, you know, comes in, and there's like, just commas and commas and commas, and it's like, how many commas could this be? Like, you know, like, it's like.

Sam Parr (25:56)

Like to run on sentence.

Jamie Siminoff (25:58)

Yeah, like. Yeah, exactly. Commas and common. And I just. I. Yeah, it was the best. I mean, especially. I just gone through the most traumatic thing ever. And from a money side, like, I. If. If ring had exploded at that point, which it. I mean, it. It got right on the edge of. It would have been, like, really impactful to my family. Like. And I. Yeah.

Shaun Puri (26:21)

Were you, like, just not broke, but, like, were you just, like, you know, seven, like, 150, $250,000 a year salaried person like that?

Jamie Siminoff (26:31)

Yeah, it was like, 150, I think, at that point. And I prided myself. And this was, looking back, real mistake. I prided myself on Being like, the least paid executive.

Shaun Puri (26:40)

Yeah, man, that makes you desperate. I did the same thing on a much smaller scale, but it made me desperate.

Sam Parr (26:45)

That's exactly right.

Jamie Siminoff (26:46)

So here's the other problem. When you're making that kind of money and you're at a company, 48 million people are like, hey, come to this charity event. Oh, it's only $10,000 a table. Do this. And you kind of have to, like, you're. It's like you have to sort of take part in some of this stuff, but you don't actually have the money, so you're.

Sam Parr (27:02)

You're.

Jamie Siminoff (27:03)

You're spending even more than you would making that salary regardless. So, yeah, I was like. I mean, I was basically $0. And I mean, you know, I wasn't like, I wasn't, like, in debt debt, but I wasn't. I didn't have, like, a nest egg. And so if ring all of a sudden went away, like, that was all my, like, future money was in ring.

Sam Parr (27:21)

I love how honest you are. Most people, the more successful they get and the more sort of, you know, these moments, like, they try to either downplay or they're just less. Less honest. And I think I. And by the way, I think this is why when I called you, I was like, that dude's happy. I was like, it's not like you're like, you know, some yogi or, you know, a monk who's just like, you know, at peace. That's not that. But I was like, I. You. You seem free. And I think that that's something that we all hope success gives us, but it's actually not the success that gives you that. It's. You have to decide how you're going to be.

Jamie Siminoff (27:48)

I think also, like, yeah, when you're facing, like, when you see what the other side is, that clearly I. I do remember, like, it's like I remember how lucky I am sort of every day. Like, I wouldn't call it like this. I mean, it is success, like money, but, like, money. I think I have so many friends that have a lot of money that are not free, which is a shame, because, like, that's really what this gives you, is the freedom to do what you want. Like, I get to wake up and work on things that I want to work on and impact things that I want to impact and be with my son and take him on college tours this past weekend. And, like, I get to do things because of that and that, yes, like, I am, like, overall, I'd say, like, that is very happy.

Sam Parr (28:32)

I want to take the mindset that you used to build Ring, your approach as a founder, and kind of break that down and then see what other ideas might fit that. So one of them that you told me, you said, rule number one, I like to start with the problem, not the solution or the technology. And so what did that mean for Ring? And then what's another example of an idea where you could take that kind of problem first approach?

Jamie Siminoff (28:55)

Yeah, I mean, so Ring was. I was in my garage and I couldn't hear the doorbell. So, like, what do you need to do is you need to hear the doorbell. Now, when you find that problem, it turns out a lot of times new technology can help impact it. Like, oh, there's smartphones coming out. Okay, well, those have screens. Like, there's WI fi. Now in homes, there's like this. So it is that technology can assist the problem. I think the issue is most. A lot of founders will say, I found this new chip that's out there. What can we do with this? And so they don't find a real problem. They just like, you know, it is a technology looking for a problem. I like to start with actually something that is a true problem. And then it doesn't matter what the tech is. I mean, that's part of what built Ring into where it is today is. And again, you're gonna laugh with mission, but by being a mission to make neighborhoods safer, we don't follow any technology. We're not a camera company, we're not a alarm company, we're not a social network company. Like, we are just a making neighborhood safer company. Which means, like, regardless what comes out or what we can think of, it doesn't matter what it is. If it's a steam engine in the middle of the neighborhood, and that's going to make things sure, I don't care.

Sam Parr (30:05)

And so you take that. Now, if I'm you and I'm like, oh, I was in the garage, I couldn't hear the doorbell, I think there's a part of me, the inner critic, that would have been like, this is too small. Like, you know, that doesn't sound like a big fancy idea. I'm trying to do big fancy. I'm trying to be a big success, not a small success. And, you know, is it that you did napkin math on, like, how many doorbells I could sell? Is it that you just don't care about market size? Like, how do you think about that?

Jamie Siminoff (30:27)

There' a guy who's, like, somewhat successful and said to me, it was the Most insulting thing almost anyone could ever say. And right when I'm doing this, he said to me, I kind of put his arm on my shoulder. And he was much more successful than me at the time. I am now much more successful than he has ever been. And he put his arm on my shoulder. He said, I love you, man, because you just like to work on these little things and it's so cute and fun to see. And I was like, oh, my God. That was the most. It was like, when you're finding these things, it's. If they were obvious that they were huge problems, someone would be doing it. So it's like you have to find these problems that are sort of not obviously huge, but sort of have that have. Again, I look at it as like, what is that? What could it be? And so, like with the doorbell, it was a small thing because even people were like, $200 doorbell. Like, there's. Doorbells are $10. And it's like. So that was the problem. But if you really looked at it and zoomed out, it's like everyone has a doorbell in their house across the world, like globally. Like, literally, a doorbell's on every home.

Shaun Puri (31:25)

So was Nest popular at this point?

Jamie Siminoff (31:28)

So Nest was popular as a thermostat and they had. But had it sold, they were just selling or sold to Google. And Drop cam was actually the WI FI camera that was out there that was doing well. And that Nest ended up, you know, that Tony ended up buying at Google to bring into Nest.

Shaun Puri (31:49)

So maybe there was some inspiration where it's like, okay, not the same thing, but like a household item, for sure.

Jamie Siminoff (31:54)

Oh, for sure. Like, and I was actually like, super. In fact, I actually have a email to Matt Rogers, who is the co founder of Nest. Like, when the Nest came out, I was like one of the first customers. And just in like, it super inspires us this, like, what you're doing here. So, yeah, no, there was. There was stuff happening. But yeah, I think it's. It is hard though, to see like, at the time how big a market is. If it was obvious, like, everyone would just be like, oh, the door. Oh, we should just do a doorbell. Like, look at this guy's doing a doorbell. Like, let's just. It's going to be huge. And no one thought it was going to be huge.

Shaun Puri (32:20)

Did you have like a dream where you're laying in bed talking to your wife? You're like, you know, I think, I think we can make $100 million one year, one day.

Jamie Siminoff (32:27)

I didn't. I Kind of, like, built it. My wife was the one who said, like, so this is. And this is where she's like, it makes me feel safer at home. And that was like, oh, this is like, again, like, this is more than just, like, scratching my itch in the garage. And that was what I realized that. That the security market, like, the overall security market, had not yet started looking at how you could build and invent products around presence and sort of, like, true crime prevention. Like, it was. The alarm was built in the 1800s and kind of was pretty much, like, very the same thing, which is like, trigger off of a trip and call, you know, a central station. Like, it was like, that was kind of like, best in class still. And we were like, we could look at this problem differently, which is, again, that was the superpower was the. Not just the doorbell, but then we did the floodlight camera. Then we did, like, we did all these things that were sort of unique because we were. Even the neighbors app, which is a. You know, it's a huge social network for crime and safety in neighborhoods. Like, all that stuff came out of looking at the problem and trying to solve it.

Sam Parr (33:33)

So what's an example of an idea today? You see a problem out there that you're like, somebody could go try to solve that.

Jamie Siminoff (33:39)

Bugs. Like, I just hate bugs. Like, I've never found anyone that likes bugs. And it's amazing that there's, like, no one has actually created with all the technology. Like, we can launch rockets up in the air and land them on, like, a little barge. We can, like, like, do all this stuff, but we can't get rid of freaking flies at my house in Missouri. And so I just. I just feel like there's gotta be simple ways to do this between, like, solar and, you know, there's just gotta be, like, ways to look at this problem differently than just either hitting it with some toxin that's gonna kill us all as well, or these other products that just don't work.

Shaun Puri (34:15)

Is that your current obsession?

Jamie Siminoff (34:17)

So I have realized over time, you have to work on, like, one thing. Like, you can't work on 10 different products. When I meet a founder that's like. Or, you know, an entrepreneur that's, oh, I'm doing this and this, and they're all different. I'd say, you know, 99 out of 100 times, like, they're gonna fail because they're just splitting their energy.

Shaun Puri (34:34)

All right, well, for the sake of entertainment, but also teaching our listeners and it's fun, can we walk through this? Let's say that you're not at ring and let's say that this is like actually the idea which, this idea potentially. I don't know how it's. I mean now it's obvious that ring is awesome, but maybe in 2014, when you were offended someone, they're like, what, What? That sounds so stupid. And so maybe like a lot of people are going to think bugs flies. That's it? That's all you got? Like, let's walk us through like this idea of like, why this is a big problem and like how you would attack or how you would go about solving this.

Jamie Siminoff (35:01)

Yeah. So I would just like, literally I would stick myself on the farm. I would get the soldering iron out and I would just start like figuring out. I'd just be like. And also I immerse myself in the problem. Like, why are bugs going on the horses? Like, why are they. Like, what are they. Like, what are they actually attracted to on this? Like, what are they doing? And I, I would get on ChatGPT and I would be like, trying to figure that out and I'd be like looking at everything and I just figure out like, what, like, and again, simplify. Like, like how do I go from a first principles approach, like, what is the way to just get rid of these damn things at scale? What would that be? How could you do it inexpensively? My feeling is it has something to do with solar and either like some like kind of screw mechanism or suction just sort of like because you got. It's like a big problem. Right? Like, it's like a. It's like a mass volume problem. And so it's like these, like. I keep thinking of these like little stat you just put all over your property and they're just continually sort of like collecting and how to do that. So that's it. But I would just. And I just literally I would just be like building this stuff. Like, I would start. I wouldn't, I wouldn't do research. I wouldn't ask friends if it's going to be a big business. I wouldn't spend time on any of that stuff. I would be out there like with solar panels and Dyson vacuum cleaners hooked up to lights and, you know, tubes and like, I'd just be like doing this stuff.

Sam Parr (36:18)

Sam, have you seen our friend Julian's obsession with bugs?

Shaun Puri (36:22)

No. So we have this friend named Julian who's like out of this world. And like, he's. He's only eaten steak for like two years and now he's moved to Hawaii. And he has a ranch and he's doing crazy stuff.

Sam Parr (36:31)

Yeah. So he moves to Hawaii, he buys a ranch, and he starts building like, you know, a home. And he's, he's got this bug problem just like you and. Because, you know, the big project he was doing was the ranch. The big problem with the big project was the mosquitoes. And so he's like, he's specifically focused on mosquitoes. And so he told me, he emailed me for like over a couple month period that like, just different things he was trying to do to. But what you were saying, like, understand what the hell's going on with the mosquito. Where's the root problem? Kind of first principles. And he's like, oh, the problem is we try to kill the mosquito. No, you need to kill the eggs. Because if you don't kill the eggs, for every one mosquito you're killing, there's like whatever, a hundred mosquitoes that are coming out. And then he tried, bought all the fancy contraptions and then he realized, like, oh, they lay their eggs in the water and so what you need to do. And so I guess I don't know all the science behind this, but he basically has this thing, I got it on the screen here. It's like this, just a bucket with water. And then you spray this or you put this thing in the water that's going to kill the eggs when they try to lay them there. And so it stops the cycle. And he's like, I did it. I solved the problem with the mosquito. The mosquito problem, which is that they want to lay their eggs on stale water. So you put the dirt in their eyes, you make old still water as a trap for them, and then you put this thing in it that's going to, it's a harmless to human bacteria, but it's going to kill the eggs. And he's. And he was like, so pumped and like, look at this thing. This thing has 11,000 bookmarks on a single tweet, which is like, you know, that's pretty, that's pretty unusual. But it kind of shows a lot of people are like, you know, have this same itch, the same problem, and don't really have a good solution.

Jamie Siminoff (37:59)

Yeah. So it's. And it's like, you know, is. Is there a five or $10 billion company hiding in the bug space? Probably they're. It, like, probably like, I mean, it's, it's global, like every, like they're everywhere. It's, it's also like, I mean, it's an issue on Health, you know, mosquitoes cause health issues, flies cause health issues. So it's like actually like there's like real impact. So if you could figure something out. Like it actually it, you know, it is probably you know a five or ten billion dollar thing.

Sam Parr (38:26)

It also seems like there might be like a branding thing that you did well with ring that like could be applicable in the bug space. Like I don't know what all the big bug companies are, but I know raid. It's like they all literally like they look and sound like killing with like toxin basically. And like the, you know it's all branded in a look a monster energy looking can. And you know the way that these new like Celsius and Alani new and prime, like a lot of the new drinks came out and they're literally like just energy drinks but with a, like a different vibe.

Jamie Siminoff (38:56)

I think that's, that's a good point. Is like there's like it is the same thing where there's like a, there is a probably a new brand in this that stands for and it's like it's not environmentally safe because like I'm like some eco warrior. It's because like you don't want to spray all over your house. Like you live in that. Like it's like that's not good. Like we do these like bug bombs and stuff. Like there's no way those are good for you. Like it can't be.

Shaun Puri (39:20)

I thought the monster energy drink of mosquito spray was a pretty good. That was pretty good.

Sam Parr (39:25)

Yeah.

Shaun Puri (39:26)

Right.

Sam Parr (39:26)

Isn't that what the can kind of looks like? Is that.

Jamie Siminoff (39:28)

It's like I wish someone go do it. I wish in like it'd be amazing. Imagine five years someone comes back. It's like I was listening to this thing. I had the same thing. I needed like a little push. I got inspired and I built a $5 billion business out of it. Like that would be the, like that would be the coolest thing ever.

Sam Parr (39:43)

Raid.

Shaun Puri (39:44)

Like we're at war, we're going to go to battle. And like the thing about these, this weapon is if you don't aim it in the right direction, there might be, you know, there might be a self inflicted wound here.

Jamie Siminoff (39:54)

Yeah. You know it's bad when you're using something when you're, when you're, when you say the name. I can taste that. Like it's not like I can smell it. Like I can taste what that is like because it's like that toxic goes through your. It like blasts through your skin.

Sam Parr (40:08)

My wife hates that stuff because we have a dog, we have a baby. It's like, she's just like, look, we can't just spray this stuff all over, like. Yeah, I don't know. It's too risky.

Jamie Siminoff (40:16)

Right?

Shaun Puri (40:16)

So, I mean, what were you, like, using it as hairspray? Like, why are you spraying it all over the place?

Sam Parr (40:21)

Well, you know, it is when, like, there's a bug that. It's like that one episode of Breaking Bad where there's a fly in the. In the. In his, like, meth lab.

Shaun Puri (40:27)

Yeah.

Sam Parr (40:27)

I was meeting with a bug the other day in, like, my house, and I was like, okay, fine, mission. I'm, like, suited up in a hazard, just going to war, but, you know, you get carried away. One of the things you had said I really liked was you called yourself a snowball.

Jamie Siminoff (40:41)

Yeah. So the snowball would be like, if you've got the fly thing, it would be, I hate these flies. Okay. Like, that's. The snowball starts going down the hill, and then I'm just, like, taking stuff and soldering it together, doing it. Like, it's. Now it's gathering sort of, it's. And then it, like, hits something, and, like, you lose a little bit off the snowball, but it keeps going, and you just kind of roll down the hill. And by the way, some snowballs, when they're rolling down the hill, they hit, like, they hit the tree and they just explode. So, like, that could be the fly thing is you get to this point where you just can't figure it out. That totally happens. If you can see the finish line when you start, it's usually not a big good thing. Like, it's like, that's usually you're. You're not, like, you're not inventing or you're not changing the world. Typically, if it's like that clear how to get from start to finish. And so, yeah, it's like, I just kind of feel like I just kind of roll down the hill and gather and. And you hope you don't hit a tree. And as you get to the bottom of the hill, you hope you're like a bigger snowball. That's, you know, I guess. You know, hopefully good for the world. Like, I guess snowball, if. If snowballs are good for the world, that you are helpful.

Sam Parr (41:36)

When. When we got bought, we got bought by Twitch and Emmett, the founder. He's this, you know, great entrepreneur. And I was like, you know, my value of being that I was there to earn out my deal and, you know, be helpful, but I really wanted to learn from Edit. I was like, this is the one guy I want to learn from while I'm here. So I asked him, I said, hey, in the early days of Twitch, did you ever, like, send investor updates or anything? I'm a little bit nosy. I was like, can I. Would you share any of that with me? Like, I would love to see that dude just as an entrepreneur, like, what was it, like, 10 years ago? And he's like, sure. So he sent me this update and one of the things he wrote in there, he goes, it is one of his updates. Because it was hard at the time, you know, they were doing a pretty unproven thing, video game streaming. You know, it wasn't clearly going to be a big market, but he felt a sense of momentum. And he's one of the investor updates. The title was we were a steamroller going through a field full of flowers. And he was like, just saying. And they had gotten like 150 new streamers that week. And he was like, yes. And so he was just taking a lot of pride in the small stage. Because if you just keep looking at the small stage and poo pooing it, you never build up the momentum.

Jamie Siminoff (42:38)

Yeah.

Sam Parr (42:38)

And the second thing he said was like, same thing. He goes, you know, I really want to try to get into this, like, kind of adjacent space. And I was like, why do you.

Shaun Puri (42:45)

Want to do that?

Sam Parr (42:45)

Seems like there's so much more room to run still with game streaming. And he goes, yeah, but he goes, you never want to see the. The finish line. He's like, if. He's like. Because I know he's like, I don't want to be able to see the, like the horizon.

Jamie Siminoff (42:54)

Yeah.

Sam Parr (42:55)

At the end, he's like, even if that's still five years away, I need to do something that's going to push the horizon out further so that we have more room to run. And I'd really never thought of it like that. But I guess, you know, as you play at scale, that's obviously like an important thing.

Jamie Siminoff (43:08)

Yeah, it's actually I. I think I always think of goal. A lot of go, actually ceilings. Like, you think of a goal and you want it to be something like you. You kind of hitting a goal perfectly is probably means the goal wasn't set right. Like, you, you want to have these directional goals, like things that you could try to achieve that are sort of tangible but sort of in some ways unachievable so that you're always like, to your point, like you're Just trying harder to get, like, it's. It's the carrot on the stick in front of you, where, like, you can kind of never get the carrot, but you keep going for it.

Shaun Puri (43:40)

You have a life philosophy and a life outlook that's very different from mine. But frankly, I'm envious of how you think about things both. Like, were you.

Jamie Siminoff (43:47)

Like.

Shaun Puri (43:47)

I start with a problem, and I'm an inventor, which sounds basic, but the way that you do it is quite nice. You have a really good attitude, and then you just made this line about, like, goals and ceilings. What people or what books do you think have influenced you? And if Sean and I or one of our listeners wanted to, like, kind of develop this Jamie mindset besides your.

Sam Parr (44:04)

Book, by the way, shout out your book.

Jamie Siminoff (44:06)

Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I would, of course, read Ding Dong by Jamie Simonoff. I mean, I think that's the. The How Guide of. Of Business. No great title, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. In all seriousness. No, I would. I think the book that stands out the most for me is the Walt Disney Biography. If you want to read this, like, get ready. Like, you better clear your calendar, because this thing is, like. I think the audiobook's, like, 24 hours. I mean, it's. Whoever did that audiobook died afterwards. Like, it was like. That was like.

Shaun Puri (44:34)

Like, of all the people that I've talked to and all the biographies that I've listened to, the Walt Disney Biography might be the most cited version I've ever heard. And, like, Walt. I've never read it, but there's all these stories where, like, on the small things, like, apparently someone was building, like, a train in Walt's backyard for his kids or grandkids. I don't know, something like that. And he wasn't there. Like a contractor that says, like, well, we can't make the train curve. And he's like, well, it has to curve, because when someone's on the train, I don't want them to know what's coming up next.

Jamie Siminoff (45:04)

That is the embodiment of it. And it's also. He was so maniacal about every detail of every experience. And I was. What I was going to say is, when you read this book, you realize that he was tortured. He could never achieve what he wanted to, which was, like, absolute perfection of this. And so when a movie would come out, like, my. My. The. The thing that I took out the most from his book was every movie that would come out. Cause, you know, he was pushing animation ahead. Like. Like, the. The technology in animation so like Snow White and the Seven Dwarves come out. He's sitting in the theater in the back. Everyone's watching it, like, literally mind blowing, like seeing what's up there. But because he's already working on the next movie and the next iteration of animation, he knows that this is shit. Like, he knows that, like, that movie is not as good as the next one's gonna be. And he's like, literally like crying in the back of this theater that he's showing such a bad product to people because it could be so much better. And all he wants to show him is the next one. And I thought that's like the struggle of a true inventor and entrepreneur. And like, product person is like, you just like everything I put out, I'm mad because I know I can be better. And it's like that just that constant thing and that's like, that's how you drive to be the best. And there's definitely, you know, like, I think you look at some of the greatest inventors and entrepreneurs out there, you see that constant, just like that drive, like that engine that just. They can't stop.

Shaun Puri (46:27)

Yeah. You seem a lot happier than him, which is a good attribute to also have.

Jamie Siminoff (46:32)

It's not, it's not terrible.

Sam Parr (46:35)

Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot because using only 20% of your business data is like dating somebody who only texts you in emojis. First of all, that's annoying, and second, you're missing a lot of the context, but that's how most businesses are operating today. They're only using 20% of their data. Unless you use HubSpot. That's when all your emails, your call logs, your chat messages, they turn into insights to help you grow your business because all that data makes all the difference. Learn more@HubSpot.com Another one of your, your philosophies as an entrepreneur that I really liked is you talked about this idea of Tom Brady. I've used this. You know, we did this call before this pod like a week ago or so. I've already used it twice in my thinking, in between. So that's when, you know, an idea sticks. So could you explain the Tom Brady hiring thing?

Jamie Siminoff (47:17)

Yes. I mean, every team, like when you get to the whatever. And I'm not that into sports, but, you know, they trade like the first trade pick for this and like they're always trying to get like the first, first pick of the. The. The of like the. What is it called? The draft. The draft is how much I'm into sports. So but like every team they, they had the chance to get Tom Brady multiple times. Like it's actually insane. It's like they didn't just have like one shot at him. He was the 199th draft pick. Like everybody had the chance to get Tom Brady. And so while everyone's focused on like whatever the, the number one draft pick of that year, but I don't know the number top 10 I probably are unknown to us today, but Tom Brady is one of the greatest athletes of all time. And so to me as a, as a business, you have to find the Tom Brady's. They're actually out there for you. Like everybody has access to Tom Brady or the Tom Brady of your business of that area. It's like how do you find them? How do you incentivize them? How do you let them become the Tom Brady? That is just the amazing thing. Whereas I meet with founders who are like, oh, I'm trying to get the person from the company to the this and it's like that's the number one draft pick and you're going to just probably pay too much. And honestly they're probably not going to be known in 10 years.

Shaun Puri (48:30)

Great. Sounds good. How my.

Jamie Siminoff (48:33)

So there's lots of people have lots of different methods for finding great people. My thing is hire fast, fire faster. The mission really helps. So you sort of bring someone in. Like the interview is basically like, I mean obviously like do you have the skills to do the like the basic job? So like it's like there's like a sort of a light bar but above that it's just are you passionate? Do you want to work on this problem with us? Like and do you really want to work on this problem with us? Like do you want to wake up in the morning excited about this problem? If you're passionate, you want to work on the problem and you have the minimum skill set to do it, we'll let you, we'll let you try. Like it's just like let like, I don't know, go out there and throw the ball. Like see how you do. And you give them massive autonomy in their area. Like give them the ability to succeed or fail. I think another thing that a lot of companies do is they so like wrap you in soft. Like in. They don't want you to fail so they stop you from succeeding. It's like such a weird thing. It's like they like they, they're so worried that maybe you're gonna, you know, if you're not able to do that level of the job. So we gotta be careful. Like, we don't want you to be over your head versus, like, let Tom Brady be Tom Brady. Let him throw the ball. And, and, and when you let those people do it, it's like, it's incredible. And yes, in the process of that, you're gonna have people that are just gonna, like, not be able to, you know, succeed at those jobs. And you, you know, you move on with them. And you do it. By the way, you can be compassionate in that it's not. You don't have to be.

Shaun Puri (50:02)

How fast do you fire? Like, when people say hire fast, fire fast. That's. That's a little bit vague. So, like, like, let's say you meet someone. How fast would you.

Jamie Siminoff (50:10)

I would say at that time, Like, I mean, yeah, we're probably not in that sort of like, with Amazon now and stuff. It's like, obviously, and it is. As you get bigger, like, things are a bit different. Back in the start days, I'd say like three to six months. Because you certainly don't want to. Like, it's not like the first day someone comes in, you say, like, okay, you're bad. Like, or you're good. I mean, it takes someone a little bit of time to get their, like, their feet wet, to get sort of get their footing, but you want to be pretty quick. It's, it's. I would say it's very rare if you talk to almost anyone that you know, an entrepreneur or leader that they say, like, I wish. Pretty much anyone that you say, like, when they fired someone, it's like, I wish I'd done it sooner.

Shaun Puri (50:48)

So three to six months. What about hiring?

Jamie Siminoff (50:51)

Hiring is like, on the spot. I'm, I'm. I'm on the. Like, I mean, again, Amazon is a little bit different now. So I'll just be like, honest of like, yes. Like, we have a bigger company, we have like, some more like it, and you have to do that. It's like, that's part of the. That's par for the course. But. But yeah, when we were like, like Mimi, who is my chief revenue officer, today, she cold emailed me and said, I worked at Dyson. I now work at Sonos. You know, I see what you guys are doing. I'm in the neighborhood. I'd love to stop by. So I said, great, stop by. So she sits down with Don and I. Don runs our sales. She starts talking. I look at Don, Don looks at me. I said, we should just hire her, right? He goes, yeah, I Said, okay, you're hired. And she's like. She's kind of like. Like, are you two jokers serious? Like, this is like, I was just coming to talk to you, and I'm like, beth, done? I'm like. I'm like, do you not want to work here? And she's like, no, no, I want to work here. I'm like, well, then. Then just come in to work here. She's like, what am I doing? I'm like, I don't know. You just said. You seem to, like, know all these problems we have, so, like, go fix them. Like, I. Like, you just told me that we're doing all this stuff wrong. Like, why don't you just take whatever that is, like, make that job title and go do it? And she's our chief revenue officer today, so.

Sam Parr (51:52)

Have you ever heard Warren Buffett describe his. His thing with this, with people and the too hard pile?

Jamie Siminoff (51:57)

No, I actually haven't.

Sam Parr (51:59)

So this guy came on the podcast, Mohnish Prabhrai, and in the episode he described, he bought a charity lunch from Buffett for $650,000. He had learned so much from Buffett. He had been super successful doing Buffett's method, basically. And he's like, this is. My tuition is overdue. So he's like, I'll buy the charity lunch and we'll go. And I have no expectations. So I said, what did you ask him? And he asked Warren Buffett. He goes, warren, you seem to be a really good judge of people. He hired some pretty great people inside of Berkshire, and you've avoided a lot of the. Kind of, like, doing the wrong acquisitions. So you seem to be a good judge of people. What's the secret? And Warren Buffett goes, no, I don't think I'm that good at people. He goes, I think what I do is I'm a very harsh grader. So he said. He goes, basically, the cost of me saying no to a good person, to somebody who actually turned out to be good, it's not that consequential. Say if they turned out to be good. And I happened to say no because I couldn't tell. But if I say yes to too many people who happen to be really bad, that becomes very costly and very hard for me to unwind. So he goes, if I was at a dinner party and there was a hundred guests and you let me spend five minutes with each person, he goes, without a doubt, I could tell you these five no doubt, are fantastic. These five definitely stay away. They're sort of toxic or there's something that I don't trust about them. And then there's 90 people who, I don't know, I can't tell in five minutes. And they all go in what I call the too hard pile. It's just too hard to tell. And he goes, a lot of life just works by putting everything else in the too hard pile and just focusing on the five things that you were pretty clear and pretty sure about in a very small amount, small amount of time. And everybody wastes their time trying to get clarity on that 90%. That's very hard to figure out. Takes a lot of time and energy, and you're going to get it wrong a lot.

Jamie Siminoff (53:44)

Yeah. And so kind of my method has been on the hiring is the too hard pile is I'm aware that I'm not that good at figuring out who's in that pile always. And so if I'm wrong, I'm just gonna be very quick to sort of pull the trigger. And by the way, like, you can also be wrong pulling the trigger. Like, if you're pulling the trigger after three to six months, you could be wrong. I'll also say there's lots of people who didn't fit our culture, who went on to do incredible things and are incredibly successful. So it's not that failing at ring was failing in life. It was. You just didn't fit what we were doing. And we are a unique lock, and you want a unique key to work in that lock. And that's where I would say the empathy side. Like, I didn't fire them being like, you're terrible. Get out of here. Like, it was like, it just doesn't. Like, we're not working out together. And I would feel bad for every single one of them that they have to go back to their family, whatever. Like, that it was. That did weigh on me, but I also wanted the business to have this clarity and to move fast and to, you know, and from the above. And they like. Like, I will say the wrong people are really. Could be like, that's bad.

Shaun Puri (54:50)

Can I ask you about one thing here? You said, I just don't know how to stop. And sometimes it's not smart and it costs me.

Jamie Siminoff (54:58)

Yeah, it's like, that's. This is like the. This is like the Jerry Maguire. Like, you're gonna make me cry, Sam. You're gonna. You're gonna do this. Yeah. I mean, I think if I. If I look at, like, part of, you know, it's. It's even like we talked about that ADT thing, it's like I just keep going. Like I just don't stop. And you know, overall that's probably like, you know, I think so. I keep telling you, young people keep asking me, like, what should I do? You know, AI is coming out, like, I don't know where I should go to college or what should I do? And it's like, just put yourself in a position where you can just grind. Like just go grind because you just got to get out. Like it's, it's. No one knows where the world's going to go. No one knows what's happening. You can't control the world. Everyone like acts as if they can. Luck has to be your co pilot. And so just go out there and just, just keep grinding. And a lot of those times when you're grinding, it's hard because when you can't actually see where it's getting you to, you talk to entrepreneurs that have already made it. So it's like people say the average business takes seven years to be successful. Someone say to me, so like, it's kind of like you knew when you started that you had seven years. It's like, no, you don't ever know that it's going to be successful. Like it's the average. It's just so I, I do think the grinding thing is, it's under, underestimated how hard that is to keep grinding because it's, you don't see where it's going. And you need sometimes to have these weird other factors happen that are out of, outside of your control to make your success happen. Just like Instagram coming out while we're building a camera at your front door, you know, that super powered our message. I, I didn't build Instagram. I didn't like push it out there. I didn't help it. I didn't know it was coming but, but I kept grinding on my side and got lucky on some of these other things.

Shaun Puri (56:40)

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Sam Parr (57:56)

One of the things I like that you told me was you look for products where 90% of the marketing is already done. And I called it Last mile marketing. And you were describing how this worked in your favor at Ring and how sometimes an entrepreneur can go wrong if you, if you really need to like educate the market about something completely from scratch.

Jamie Siminoff (58:15)

Yeah. So it's, it's. And I, so I, I would call it pre awareness. So if you can, if you can try to like give a little bit of invention, a little bit of differentiation to something that has pre awareness you, it's incredible because if you look at, there's a cost. Just look at like the cost, like a new to world product, you have the cost to tell someone about it is incredibly expensive. Like if I have to tell you about some product and everything I have to tell you about it is, is new to world. It's very hard for you to understand it and like go to the film business. Like when it's a completely new film, it costs more to market it than Top Gun too. Because Top Gun too, like you know everything. Like, you know Top Gun, you know, you know Tom Cruise. Like there's so much pre awareness in that. The doorbell, putting a camera on a doorbell. And again I sort of got lucky to learn this thing is everyone knew where the doorbell was mounted. They knew what the doorbell did, they knew like the functionality of it. I just added like a piece to that. I did the same thing with a floodlight camera. You knew what a floodlight looked like, you knew where it goes, like you know what it does for you. And now you add a camera to it. And so Wherever you can use this pre awareness. I mean like liquid death. Like, like it's water. Like you didn't have to tell someone like what this drink was or like it's like, but they changed like a piece of it. And so I just think like changing a piece of it, getting your edge on it in something where there's pre awareness. Great, great way to start because you get billions or hundreds of billions of dollars. Like in my case, like the doorbell. Think about how much like advertising sort of dollars or whatever like you want to call it, you know, come from the doorbell. Just being known for the last hundred years.

Shaun Puri (59:50)

All right, so I told everyone that, you know, we give a list. We were like, let's start with ideas. Let's start with strong opinions and cool stories. You have one on here that actually was probably one of the most eye catching things I've ever read. You bought a town in Missouri, is that right?

Jamie Siminoff (60:05)

I, I, well I, I, I went to a town in Missouri that had, and a lot of these small towns now if you go out into the Midwest and to some of these areas between like the opioid issues, industrial farming, like these towns have just been just pummeled. And this town, Labelle, Missouri, when I went there was really like, I would say it was in, it was in pretty tough shape.

Shaun Puri (60:26)

You're actually, you're actually the second guest that we've had that has bought a town in Missouri. The first is Al Doane. He bought a small town. Him and his mom own a knitting company that is a multi.

Jamie Siminoff (60:39)

Totally know that town. Yeah, that, it's amazing.

Shaun Puri (60:41)

Yeah. So so basically Al and his mom, his mom started it and then I'll I guess is like running it where it's like a knitting company. And he has bought a town in Missouri and he calls it like Disneyland, but for knitters.

Jamie Siminoff (60:52)

Yeah, I think, I think it is. But it's become this, this place has become like the Mecca. Like people go there. It's amazing.

Shaun Puri (60:59)

By the way, Al, I'm so sorry. It's called Missouri Quilting Company. It's, I totally missed it.

Jamie Siminoff (61:04)

I actually, I do want to talk, I got to talk to him at some point because I, he's done some amazing stuff. What I tried to do though is just a little different. So they've made it like, it is an incredible destination and they've done an incredible like, from what I've seen, like an incredible job. My thing was I really just wanted to help bring this town. And again, I'm an inventor. I look at things That I see that are sort of not where I believe they should be or a problem. Again, we go to our problem, right? Like, what's the problem? The problem is that this cute little town no longer has any business. The sidewalks are broken. And also people's perspective had changed.

Shaun Puri (61:38)

Like, like, how did you show up there though?

Jamie Siminoff (61:40)

So I invested in a business off of Shark Tank. I went back on Shark Tank as a shark, invested in a business called Moink. This woman, Lucinda Kramsey from LaBelle, Missouri and she has this direct to consumer meat company where we buy from small farmers and send it out. Very missionary, really cool little business. And I go there and visit with my family and I just fall in love with the place. My son's running around on hay bales. He doesn't even know what his phone is at that point. It's just, we're coming from Los Angeles and like, it's just amazing. And I ended up buying a little farm there and fixing up the house and getting involved with the community. The town was really in sort of a tough place. And so we started fixing up the sidewalks and like kind of the broken windows theory of like if you kind of start fixing some stuff up, you know, would other people join in? There was a lot of like, kind of trash on some lots and like kind of that kind of stuff. And. And so people started cleaning up their stuff. We cleaned up the streets and the sidewalks. We then took the building that was broken on the side of the thing and fixed it up and made it into a beautiful coffee shop. There was no place, it's like crazy. There was no place within an hour to sit with someone during the day and talk to them about anything except the bar. And I like going to a bar, but a bar is not a great place to have a civil discussion about things. And so the coffee shop is an important fabric of the community. So we, we brought the coffee shop there and it's like that became cool and actually became successful. And then we helped fix up the tavern in town and made it this awesome. It's like the coolest bar ever. But it's like farm to table with organic grass fed beef from my ranch. No one even cares because out there they just like, they're like, well, whatever. But it's like literally the best food you'll ever have like anywhere. It's like incredible. It's like literally probably the best like beef in the world. And then a doctor put an office there and a health clinic now and that's been helping. And the town's gotten healthier. And as that happens, people. So it's like this again. This is the snowball effector. Like the. The. The incredible flywheel of. You get things going and then people sort of take it from there. They also are like, I don't want this. You know, Jamie, this city slicker from la, why is he making all the money? Like, I want to. Like, you know, it's great. Like, have the greed be there. Someone started building apartments, like, little apartments there. It's a town of 700. It's amazing.

Shaun Puri (63:57)

That's badass.

Sam Parr (63:58)

So what. What do you think makes, like, there's all those, like, levers that you talked about. Like, you know, the coffee shop so that people have this third place. There's fixing the sidewalks and the broken windows. I imagine, like, I don't know, sports or church. There's, like, other things that kind of, like, revitalize the community. Was there anything that surprised you? That, like, how. How much of a difference it made? Like, it seems small, but actually it's pretty big.

Jamie Siminoff (64:18)

What surprised me, or I should say should didn't surprise me. So when I went to it, I'm like, I'll just buy. Like you said. Like, I bought a town. Like, and I did not. Like, I. I took part with others in the town to change the perspective. And so I was a catalyst. But, like, it turned out you needed everyone.

Shaun Puri (64:33)

So would you be comfortable revealing how much, like, you had to invest or it's how much money?

Jamie Siminoff (64:39)

It's. It's quite a bit. But I'd say the. The. What really needed, though, was everyone to join in. Like, it wasn't like you said. This is actually what's interesting is it wasn't the money. Like, when I went there, it's like, I'm like, I saw the town. I'm like, I'll write a check. You know, it's like, sadly, like, I was like, I'll write a check and I'll like, like, just fix this whole place up and it'll be nice. Like, I'll just do that. Like, and then no one would even sell me any properties. Everyone was like, ah, like it. And then I just started to get involved in the town. I drive my backhoe into town, you know, like, with a Bud Light and the cup holder and, like, you know, talking to everyone. And, like, they realize that I'm just one of. Like, I'm one of them.

Shaun Puri (65:14)

And, like, we're just all like a movie man. And this is the scene where, like, totally. This guy. You might be all right.

Jamie Siminoff (65:20)

Yeah, And I did, because I, by the way, I am. I love sitting out with them at the side of a pickup truck, watching the sunset on the farm and having a beer. Like, that's my happiest place to be, so. And then I started. We started fixing up the sidewalks, and I went out there and, like, I was part of it. That was the other thing is truly being part of it. It wasn't the money. It was, like, showing that support. And then another guy in town's like, I'm gonna help fix this up. And I'm like, great. And we just. It was. You know, it's like, also what created Ring. It's like a thousand things that we did. It's not one thing. And so it's like there was nothing that surprised me. That was, like, one thing we did. I am surprised. At the coffee shop, I thought would lose money. I just didn't want it to lose too much money. It actually makes money, so that was surprising. But I'd say the unsurprising thing is it's like. It's just. It's also a long thing. Like, it's been seven years that I've been working on this now with the people there. I'd say we're, like, now turning the corner, but it's probably another seven years to get it really where you'd hope it to be, because it just. It's like every year you do another project. Every year you do another thing. Like, you can't just do it all at once.

Shaun Puri (66:28)

Every four months. In this podcast, here's what happens. You see, Sean and I sit on our hands like this. If we just stare at you because we're in. You got us.

Jamie Siminoff (66:40)

If you guys are in. Let's do a podcast from La Belle, Missouri. Sam. I mean, you can. You know, you can go visit home and then. And then come up, so.

Shaun Puri (66:48)

Well, I've been for that. That's.

Jamie Siminoff (66:49)

I'm.

Shaun Puri (66:50)

What I was saying was I'm in on Jamie.

Sam Parr (66:52)

I think it's so cool. I mean, even the way we said it was wrong. It's not that you bought a town. You invested time and energy and money into a town. You invested kind of a piece of soul into it. And the idea is kind of like, some places just need a little bit of that, like cpr, just to bring them back to life and get that. You know, it takes a little bit of pumping.

Jamie Siminoff (67:11)

Like, catalyst. Like, I was a catalyst, but I was not the right. It again. It's like, it is a business, right? Like, it takes A team. It takes everyone being on board, everyone rolling. Like, it's. All these things are the same thing. Like, it's. It's not just like getting venture capital money and you just make it. Like, you don't just, like, you know, do that. It's like, it's very. It's hard to build something great.

Shaun Puri (67:35)

The, the TripAdvisor page is pretty cool. You guys named stuff really well. It's called the top places. The Milkweed Inn, the TikTok Motel, Tippy's Bar and Grill, Stanley's Diner. I'm in. I want to say I want to stay and eat at all those places.

Sam Parr (67:52)

All right, awesome. I think, you know, in the sort of, like, I don't like the idea of legacy. I think legacy is just sort of like a ego thing. But I do think we do get remembered for certain things by others, and it's not always what we expected. It's not always in our control. And I think what you're doing here is. Is really cool. This would be. If you're on a TED Talk, I, you know, I actually want to hear this story more than the. The ring story. I think it's. It's such a cool life resume, you know, win. And I'm sure it's been very, like, satisfying and fulfilling in a way that just doing another company or hitting another, like, quarterly sales goal would never do for you at this stage. And so I think it's pretty awesome to hear that because I think, you know, we all want to. We're in the game of entrepreneurship initially for the success and then satisfy some insecurity, get some financial independence. But then why do you stay in the game? Well, it's because it's fun to play. And two, like, these projects are just vehicles. It's just like workout equipment. It's. You're there to have to, like, to go for a ride. You're there to grow a little bit. And so I think this is a really cool project that you did.

Jamie Siminoff (68:56)

Entrepreneurs should be making the world better. And so, like, whether it's on a big scale, small scale, whatever, like, we should just be, like, working to do that.

Shaun Puri (69:03)

Is this going to be, like a second act for you? I mean, this is like, first of all, this is like, you know, I don't. We have to figure out how the story ends. And, like, hopefully there's like a good, like, fairy tale ending of it, like, the town thrives, whatever. But, like, is there, like a book here? Is there a movie here? Because this seems like a pretty, like, pretty Funny and like, interesting tale.

Jamie Siminoff (69:20)

I, I mean, maybe. I, I don't know. I, I kind of just would hope that. I just wish more people would go do this. Like, I just think like, we need to like, as. It's like, I. If we could use, if all the people that have learned so much could use their brains and a little bit of their capital to do this, like, we would solve so many problems because it is going to the root of the problem. Like, like, we look, we keep. We always treat the output of the problems. Like we have hospitals that treat people that have had sugar all their lives, but we don't stop people from eating sugar. And then we try to tell them not to eat sugar, but we actually don't like, like, do things to make sure that like, they understand why. And so it's like, I think like part of this is like, if you look at this, this area now, it's like healthier. Like it's like all these things. And so how do you, like, how do you figure out like the root of problems in fixing it? So I'd say like Labelle is just like one of, I don't even know 5,000 towns in the US that have the same thing. And if you grow up like that, you know, there's going to be like, societal issues that come from. If we leave areas behind. And so you think that like, like.

Shaun Puri (70:24)

I'm in New York City right now. I'm from Missouri, I'm in New York City right now. And there's the Langone Hospital nearby. And it's just, you know, the guy who started Home Depot, probably donated a billion dollars, started this hospital. But then like four blocks away there's this other hospital, this other hospital, this other hospital. All rich guys.

Jamie Siminoff (70:38)

Yeah.

Shaun Puri (70:39)

And that's wonderful, you know, great. But what is not talked about is like middle America or like, you know, instead of like donating to different countries, like, it's, it's not particularly accessible in terms of it's top of mind or it's even thought of as a thing of like investing into a small town. But it seems like a really awesome way to give directly to the recipients. But also the teaching them how to fish kind of idea of like, look, I'm, I'm helping. It's our town, it's your town. And I'm just here as a part of it and it makes it just a little bit better, which snowballs into something bigger. And that's really fascinating because every rich person or a lot of rich entrepreneurs, they want to do dope Shit, they do want legacy and like, it seems like a really great option.

Jamie Siminoff (71:26)

I, I think it is. And it's where you can also use like your superpower of what you've learned. Like you can actually like impart your knowledge. It's not, it's not just money. It's like money obviously does help, but you need a little bit of that like spark to help. But it's not cash. It's like actually more about using your brain and helping. And by the way, what you learn from it, like what I've learned from being there is incredible. Like, that's the other side. Like we. But just need to share more.

Shaun Puri (71:50)

A lot of the tech guys, it's like, you know, cool to be in politics right now. And I've. That is not my personal inspiration. And I hear a story like this and I'm like, man, that sounds so much more helpful and very fascinating.

Sam Parr (72:03)

Yeah, very cool, Jamie. Well, I appreciate you coming on telling the story. Shout out the book. It just came out two days ago, so shout out the book. People should read it to hear to get the full story. What's it called? Where do people get it?

Jamie Siminoff (72:14)

So it's Ding Dong How a Shark Tank Reject Went to Everyone's Front Door. It's available on Amazon.com man, you're the best.

Shaun Puri (72:23)

We, you know, Sean and I have a bunch of favorite people I think. Jesse Itzler, Rob Dyrdek, we've had on about four or five other guys. You have just made our Mount Rushmore. Thank you for doing this. You're the fit.

Jamie Siminoff (72:34)

Thank you. I'll see you in Missouri. We'll be doing a follow up podcast from there.

Sam Parr (72:38)

There we go.

Shaun Puri (72:38)

I'm in. I don't know about Sean. I'm in.

Sam Parr (72:41)

I'm in. I'm in. How can you say no after, after such a great story?

Shaun Puri (72:45)

Well, thanks for doing it. That's the pod.

Sam Parr (72:47)

I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it. Like, no days off on the road. Let's travel. Never looking back. Hey, let's take a quick break. I want to tell you about a podcast that you could check out. It is called the Science of Scaling by Mark Roberge. He was the founding CRO of HubSpot and he's a guest lecturer at Harvard Business School. The guy's smart and he sits down every week with different sales leaders from cool companies like Klaviyo and Vanta and OpenAI. And he's asking about their strategies, their tactics, and how they're growing their companies. As you know, head of sales or chief revenue officer, if you're looking to scale a company up. If you're a CRO or head of sales that's looking to level up in your career, I think a podcast like this could be great for you. Listen to the Science of Scaling wherever you get your podcast.