How this dumb doll makes $2M per day

Summary

Podcast Summary: My First Million Episode: How this dumb doll makes $2M per day
Release Date: July 9, 2025
Host/Author: Hubspot Media
Duration: Approximately 62 minutes and 50 seconds
Transcript Focused On: [00:00] - [21:16]

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Introduction to the Labubu Phenomenon

In this episode of My First Million, hosts Sam Parr and Shaun Puri delve into the unprecedented success of Labubu dolls, exploring how a seemingly simple toy has skyrocketed to generating $2 million per day. The discussion unpacks the factors contributing to this craze, the business strategies behind it, and the psychological drivers fueling consumer obsession.

Notable Quote:

Sam Parr [00:00]: "The stock has grown in the last year from a $7 billion company to now a $44 billion company. 44 billion."

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Background on Pop Mart and the Birth of Labubu Dolls

Sam Parr introduces the audience to Pop Mart, a Chinese company founded by Wang Ning, who has ascended to become the 10th richest man in China. Pop Mart specializes in "kiddult" collectibles—toys designed for both children and adults—and has seen explosive growth through strategic partnerships and innovative marketing techniques.

Key Points:

• Company Growth: Pop Mart's stock surged from $7 billion to $44 billion within a year.
• Product Strategy: Utilizes the "blind box" or "gacha" mechanic, where consumers purchase boxes without knowing the specific item inside, similar to Pokémon cards. This approach taps into the treasure hunt excitement, encouraging repeated purchases.

Notable Quote:

Sam Parr [01:02]: "This is basically the most viral toy in the world. It's one of the biggest crazes since, you know, Beatty babies and things like that."

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The Labubu Craze Explained

The Labubu dolls, produced by Pop Mart, have become a global sensation due to a combination of unique design, strategic celebrity endorsements, and savvy marketing. The dolls are characterized by their "ugly cute" aesthetic, making them highly collectible and desirable.

Key Points:

• Design Appeal: Described as "ugly cute," the unique look of Labubu dolls stands out in the market.
• Celebrity Influence: High-profile figures like Rihanna and Lisa from Blackpink have been spotted with Labubu dolls, significantly boosting their popularity.
• Market Impact: Labubu dolls have generated approximately $700 million in sales last year, contributing nearly half of Pop Mart's overall revenue.

Notable Quotes:

Shaun Puri [02:04]: "But it's big. It's about 2ft tall. I kind of think that's neat."

Sam Parr [07:06]: "The Labubu craze starts."

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Psychological and Economic Drivers Behind the Success

Sam and Shaun explore various psychological and economic theories that explain why Labubu dolls have achieved such massive success. They identify multiple overlapping effects that have converged to propel the dolls into the spotlight.

Key Concepts:

1. Lipstick Effect:

   • Definition: An economic theory suggesting that during financial downturns, consumers shift spending from larger luxury items to smaller, more affordable luxuries.
   • Application: Instead of purchasing an expensive bag, consumers opt for Labubu dolls as a form of small indulgence.

   Notable Quote:

   Sam Parr [10:56]: "There's an economic theory that basically says that whenever people are under financial pressure... you'd shift the spending."

2. Kiddult Effect:

   • Definition: The trend of adults seeking comfort and nostalgia through collectibles and toys, a fusion of "kids" and "adult."
   • Application: Adults collect Labubu dolls as a way to reconnect with their childhood, finding emotional relief from the stresses of modern life.

3. Status Symbol Effect:

   • Definition: Items that serve as symbols of status and prestige.
   • Application: The Labubu dolls come with bag clips and multiple outfits, allowing collectors to showcase their unique style and upgrade their collections over time.

4. Ugly-Cute Effect:

   • Definition: A combination of unattractive and cute features that make a product endearing and collectible.
   • Application: The distinct aesthetic of Labubu dolls makes them stand out and highly desirable among consumers.

5. Lollapalooza Effect:

   • Definition: A phenomenon where multiple psychological biases and business tactics combine to drive unprecedented success.
   • Application: The convergence of the lipstick effect, kiddult trend, status symbol, and ugly-cute appeal culminates in the explosive popularity of Labubu dolls.

Notable Quote:

Sam Parr [12:36]: "By just having the bag clip attached to these things, they suddenly became like luxury accessories."

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Celebrity Endorsements and Viral Marketing

The episode highlights how strategic celebrity endorsements have played a pivotal role in making Labubu dolls a global sensation. The hosts recount specific instances where high-profile individuals publicly displayed their Labubu collections, triggering viral trends.

Key Moments:

• Rihanna's Influence ([07:06] - [10:00]): Rihanna was spotted with a Labubu doll attached to her purse, sparking initial interest.
• Blackpink’s Lisa ([08:00] - [10:23]): Lisa’s Instagram post showcasing her Labubu collection led to a surge in demand and social media buzz.
• Social Media Virality: These celebrity sightings on platforms like Instagram created a snowball effect, turning Labubu dolls into must-have collectibles.

Notable Quote:

Sam Parr [09:34]: "Now she starts getting obsessed with Pop Mart. She goes, she buys blind boxes and she starts collecting these. This becomes her de-stress type of thing."

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Market Sustainability and Future Predictions

Sam and Shaun critically analyze the sustainability of the Labubu craze by comparing it to past toy trends. They acknowledge the fleeting nature of such phenomena but also highlight the significant financial opportunities they present.

Comparison with Past Crazes:

• Beanie Babies, Pokémon Cards, Cabbage Patch Kids: Each of these toy trends peaked and eventually declined, typically lasting around two to three years at their height.
• Labubu’s Current Trajectory: With $700 million in sales and a market cap of $44 billion for Pop Mart, Labubu is on a similar path. The hosts predict that the trend will likely blow up to $2-3 billion in revenue before stabilizing or declining.

Investment Insights:

• Shorting the Stock: Based on historical trends, Sam suggests that investors might consider shorting Pop Mart’s stock around the end of 2026 to 2027, anticipating a downturn after the peak.

Notable Quote:

Sam Parr [16:50]: "I think if you were a betting man, the odds are that by 2027 this thing is not a $44 billion company anymore."

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode provides a comprehensive overview of how Labubu dolls have achieved extraordinary success through a combination of innovative marketing strategies, psychological factors, and celebrity endorsements. While acknowledging the likely transient nature of such trends, the hosts offer valuable insights into consumer behavior and investment opportunities.

Final Thoughts:

• Understanding Consumer Psychology: Grasping the various psychological drivers can help entrepreneurs replicate similar successes in different markets.
• Strategic Marketing: Leveraging celebrity influence and creating virality through social media are crucial for launching and sustaining product trends.
• Investment Timing: Recognizing the lifecycle of trends can inform timely investment decisions, maximizing profits while minimizing risks.

Notable Quote:

Sam Parr [13:42]: "Great, great, great job. Good find. I've been hearing about this, but I didn't exactly dive deep. So that's cool that you did this."

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Additional Insights (Optional)

While the primary focus of the episode centers on Labubu dolls and Pop Mart's meteoric rise, the conversation briefly touches upon other business ventures and personal anecdotes. These segments offer supplementary perspectives on entrepreneurship, ethical business practices, and personal growth but are secondary to the main topic.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Sam Parr]

The stock has grown in the last year from a $7 billion company to now a $44 billion company. 44 billion.

[Shaun Puri]

Okay.

[Sam Parr]

You know what I mean? That's. That's what Elon bought X for this guy selling labo boos.

[Shaun Puri]

It's insane. It's crazy.

[Sam Parr]

I feel like I can rule the world I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like no days off on a road let's travel never looking back. Dude, it's empty. No.

[Shaun Puri]

What?

[Sam Parr]

One of these are. Oh, my gosh.

[Shaun Puri]

Ramon will not quit talking to me about these things. Okay, so those. All right, so for the listener, Sean's showing me.

[Sam Parr]

What am I holding up?

[Shaun Puri]

They look like dolls, basically in the same vein as a troll. But I have gotten texts from my friend, our friend Ramon, who says, have you heard of this thing it's worth. And he says the number, And I'm like, oh, yeah, it must have been a typo. So what's the deal with these things?

[Sam Parr]

Do you know what they're called?

[Shaun Puri]

I don't. Super something.

[Sam Parr]

No, this. This is a Labubu. All right? Get yourself educated. This is a Labubu doll. Okay.

[Shaun Puri]

Does it have a Prada sign on it?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, that's part of the. Part of the shtick here. Okay, so what's the. What's the story with these things? This is basically the most viral toy in the world. It's one of the biggest crazes since, you know, Beatty babies and things like that. And so the story behind this thing is pretty crazy. I just wanted to tell you some of the things that I know about it. Of course, my wife put me onto this months ago, and I just ignored it as the. The stock of this company is up, like 7x in a year because this thing is going crazy.

[Shaun Puri]

Chinese company, right?

[Sam Parr]

Chinese company, yeah. So this is made by this. These dolls are produced by a Chinese company called Popmark. And the maker for this guy, Wang Ning, he is now the 10th richest man in China. And, like, he's adding, like, a billion dollars to his net worth in the last. You know.

[Shaun Puri]

But he's, like, 30, right? Or, like, he's.

[Sam Parr]

He's. He's really young. Like, dude, look at this picture of him.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, but Chinese guys always look really young. Until they don't.

[Sam Parr]

Until they don't. Yeah.

[Shaun Puri]

Haven't you ever heard, like, all of my Asian friends, they're like, we always look young, and then we fall off a cliff.

[Sam Parr]

All right, can you see this guy?

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he could be 12 or 50, I don't know.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. So this guy is behind this company, Pop Mart. But it's kind of fascinating what's going on with this craze, right? Like it's, it's really taken over. So somebody gave these to my kids as like a gift and I didn't really understand the significance of it. I was like, oh, cool, thanks. I didn't realize that we were just gifted, like a really important thing. This is like one of the more valuable items in my house right now. Like these things sell for thousands of dollars. The top ones can sell for six figures. That's how crazy the, the crazy is for this.

[Shaun Puri]

Okay, so tell me the story because this is, this sounds like a good, good stock to short because that's typically how these like collectibles kind of.

[Sam Parr]

We'll get to that. Yes, I agree with you. We'll get to that. All right, so the story of the Labuba dolls is there's a guy who's an artist around 2015. He's. He's in the Netherlands. He gets inspired for to create like a kind of like a toy world. So like a, a character world based on where he's at in the Netherlands. And he designs these dolls, these kind of like, like look at their teeth. Like the little like gremlin looking doll. And there's hope for us. Okay. Because the experts are describing this as ugly cute. And it's succeeded because it's ugly cute. And I just thought like our podcast, I just feel like that just gave us like some wind in our sails for what we could do as well on YouTube.

[Shaun Puri]

It's worse for us because we're not particularly ugly, but we're not particularly good looking. Is there like a.

[Sam Parr]

And cute what the kids call mid.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah. All right.

[Sam Parr]

So he creates these in 2015. Not a lot happens from there, but in 2019, so four years later he partners with this company, Popmart. And Popmart was started about a decade ago because this guy Wang Ning had this insight which is he thought that this could alt trend. We talked about this before because you're into Legos. So he's like this cadalt trend this like kids toys for adults.

[Shaun Puri]

Like. Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

And so he creates this store and the store really takes advantage of this like style, this business mechanic called blind boxes, which I don't know if you've seen LOL dolls or mini brands where you buy the box but you don't know what's inside. Similar to like Pokemon card packs. You buy the pack, you don't know what cards are inside. And so this mechanic, which I think they call like the gacha mechanic, creates a lot more spending. Right. People will keep buying because it's a little bit like a treasure hunt. And you want to see what you can find, what you can get. Will you?

[Shaun Puri]

And this used to be a scam. Like I remember Logan Paul or Jake Paul was sponsored or did business with a company called Mystery Box. And that was like a rage, like a very trendy thing for like three months. Do you remember that?

[Sam Parr]

Like 10 years, like these loot boxes are in games. And people know that. Okay, this is kind of not. It's not a scam, per se, but it's basically manipulative. Right? It gets people to buy a lot more. People get addicted to this thing. And especially when you're targeting kids, which is why Logan Paul and those guys got in trouble was, hey, this is targeting kids. The beauty of this is it's not targeting kids. So the way these blew up is through celebrities.

[Shaun Puri]

Wait, can I ask you a question about the company Popmark? So he had a Popmart. He had just a. It was a toy company for a long time or what was the origin?

[Sam Parr]

So the story is 2010, he opens up a small designer store in Beijing, and he's trying to build it off this kiddult collectibles brand. He starts selling blind boxes. This Labubu is not in play at this point. There's other blind boxes that he's trying to sell. And in 10 years, they grow from one store to, you know, 300 plus stores, 2,000 vending machines where you could just like. It's just, you know, you just buy one of these boxes, right, Right out of a machine. It ends up going public in 2020. Stock doubles on the first day. The stock has grown in the last year from a $7 billion company to now a $44 billion company. 44 billion. You know what I mean? That's what Elon bought X for.

[Shaun Puri]

So that's so insane. So before it became. When it was just a four or seven said billion dollar company, they just sold like dolls that people liked. And It's. Which a $7 billion toy company is. Is that's already a mega success. So they sold other people's stuff.

[Sam Parr]

That was over four years. But yeah, yeah, they're. They're selling collectibles of different brands, different ip. And this is one of the IP that they have. And this doll alone, like these. These labubus did like 700 million last year. So they're like now like Almost. It's getting close to about half of the revenue of the company overall because the trend has exploded.

[Shaun Puri]

And then they connect with this, with this artist. And so that's brings us to where we are now.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. So the question is, how did this explode? Where does a. The thing that fascinated me is like, where does a trend like this even come from? How does this happen? Because it's totally irrational, right? Like, why this doll? Why not another doll? Who is it the teeth? Is it the outfit? Is it what? What is it behind it? So there's some, I guess, learnings to have from this about, like, the psychology of a winning product. So want to tell you a little story about how this happens. So check this out. Exhibit A, 2023.

[Shaun Puri]

Okay, so this is a photo that you clearly can tell. It's just Rihanna, like, getting coffee or leaving a hotel.

[Sam Parr]

She's going to an airport, and she.

[Shaun Puri]

Just looks like she's. It's not sponsored. She's just being a lady. And she has one of the toy bebops or boo boos or whatever they're called hanging off of her book bag.

[Sam Parr]

Book bag.

[Shaun Puri]

That one is a purse. It's a Louis Vuitton purse. Okay. It looks like a book. I'm looking from far away. It looks like a book bag.

[Sam Parr]

Okay, so she's spotted with it.

[Shaun Puri]

Hmm.

[Sam Parr]

Interesting. At the same time, another trend is happening in Thailand. In Thailand, people are starting to see these labubus, for whatever reason as possible good luck charms. And in Thailand, people are quite religious, and they started to view these as like, almost like a spiritual. Like a little guardian that they could have with them. And so that's that rumor starts to spread. And then what happens is. Do you know the band Blackpink? Do you. Have you ever heard of this band?

[Shaun Puri]

No.

[Sam Parr]

It's like a Korean pop band. Faces like one of the most popular pop brands in the world. In the world. So it's a girl band, like Spice Girls.

[Shaun Puri]

Oh, I know it. Yeah. I like. I like those guys. I see their music videos. They're very eye catching. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Well, it's just like, it's a sensation. You'll go on YouTube and you're like, what is this thing with a billion views on YouTube, it's sort of like the sensation of, like, the BTS thing.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, so. Okay, so this is right here. This is. Now we're talking about blackpink. So Lisa from blackpink goes to Thailand to visit her friend. Her friend says, hey, what do you want to do today? They decide, let's go shopping. She thinks, okay, we're going to go shopping. Clothes, bags. What are we going to go buy? But no, she wants to go to popmart. And she says, what Pop. I don't know what Pop Mart is, but they go to a popmart store. At the popmart store, the friend really wants a Labubu. And Lisa says, honestly, not into it, I don't get it, don't care about it, blah, blah, blah. But the friend gets super disappointed because they're all sold out. And the lady at the store is like, listen, it's impossible. You're not gonna get one. And that little memetic monster inside Lisa starts to roar, the one in her stomach. And she's like, you know what? If I can't have it, I must have it. And she decides, actually, I think I do like Labo boos. And I think I do want to go get Labubus. And she starts to collect these. Now she starts getting obsessed with Pop Mart. She goes, she buys blind boxes and she starts collecting these. This becomes her de stress type of thing she does from the stressful life of being a world famous pop star.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Now she gets caught having a Labubu. Why? Because she posts it on her Instagram. So now we're fast forward 2024. This is the photo that created the craze. It went from just like, you know how a hurricane starts and there's like some, some sweeping winds, maybe a casual storm, a casual rainstorm, and then, then comes the hurricane. And this, this Instagram story started the hurricane. And it's her hugging her Labubu.

[Shaun Puri]

Can I say something? I kind of get it. That looks pretty cool.

[Sam Parr]

It looks pretty good for you too, this photo.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, it's, it's like an old white guy in overalls. It's kind of what it looks like. It looks like a farmer.

[Sam Parr]

Ye look like a Midwest farmer.

[Shaun Puri]

Actually, this I kind of like.

[Sam Parr]

I, I.

[Shaun Puri]

And it's big. It's about 2ft tall. I kind of think that's neat. I understand. Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

So they come in different sizes. The, the one that sold for over a hundred thousand, that was like a human sized one. Okay, okay. So this is the stock since that photo was taken. And you can see the stock is up 7x since then as it's been crushing. And so the Labubu craze starts. And what, you know what's interesting about this is why, okay, so celebrities started posting about it. That's it. Okay, I get that. But what else? So here's some of the other things that I found kind of interesting from a, I don't know, behavioral psychology point of view. The first is the lipstick effect. Have you ever heard of the lipstick effect?

[Shaun Puri]

I don't think so.

[Sam Parr]

So there's an economic theory that basically says that whenever people are under financial pressure, so maybe the economy is a little bit choppy, maybe there's, you know, you know, there's inflation, there's. There's wage pressure, whatever it is, people will opt. People think that you'll stop spending, but what actually happens is you shift the spending. And so instead of buying a new bag, you'll just buy some lipstick. You'll buy a new lipstick. And so lipstick sales will explode at a time during economic pressure because you take away from bigger luxury purchases and they go into smaller luxury purchases. So Instead of a 200 outfit or bag, you're going to buy a $20 item instead. And so people think that this is part of what's behind the boo boo, which is that this thing, you know, initially started where these are like, you know, a $20, $25 box that you buy and you get a little boo boo. But the thing with these, the smart thing of these is I showed you the doll. This is the most important part, this little ring, because most stuffed animals, you just keep them at home. So there's no virality to it. Right. You just have it at the comfort of your own home. Nobody sees it. You don't get to show it off. It's not a status symbol. By just having the bag clip attached to these things, they suddenly became like luxury accessories. And so that's why Rihanna had it attached to her bag and this blackpink lady had hers. And then David Beckham is posting that, and Kim Kardashian posts that she has 10 of them, and she starts clipping them to her bags, and it becomes this add on to your luxury bag, this cute little add on that you could put on your bag. And then each one of these has an outfit. So I can take this off and I can buy new clothes for this and I can upgrade my labubu. So now you have all.

[Shaun Puri]

Can you spell Labubu?

[Sam Parr]

L, A, B, U, B, U. Oh.

[Shaun Puri]

Okay, I see it.

[Sam Parr]

By the way. Labubu is actually only one of the characters, but that's just what it became called. The character strikes are called the monsters. But nobody. That didn't stick.

[Shaun Puri]

Oh, my gosh. I'm on their website. I. I think it's kind of cool.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And so, and so what. What I think is interesting here is that you have this kind of what Charlie Munger calls the lollapalooza effect. So maybe you have the lipstick effect causing people to look for little luxuries. Then you have the kiddult effect, where you have adults looking for, you know, maybe comfort and pleasure. Because when there. That's another economic theory here, which is that when adults face stress from work and global events like wars and whatnot, they find emotional relief in collecting toys and things that connect with their childhood. So you have that effect kicking in. You have the lipstick effect kicking in. You have the status symbol effect of this, where you can attach this to your bag. You have the ugly, cute effect, which we are just crushing with right now. And so all these come together to create the phenomenon that is Labubu.

[Shaun Puri]

Great, great, great job. Good find. I've been hearing about this, but I didn't exactly dive deep. So that's cool that you did this. This is not sustainable. And this is definitely gonna go away in the next five years, but let's get it while the kitten's good. All right, so I've built a few companies that have made a few million dollars a year, and I've built two companies that have made tens of millions of dollars a year. And so I have a little bit of experience launching, building, creating new things, and I actually don't come up with a lot of original ideas. Instead, what I'm really, really good at, what my skill set is, is researching different ideas, different gaps in the market in reverse engineering companies. And I didn't invent this, by the way. We had this guy, Brad Jacobs. We talked about him on the podcast. He started, like, four or five different publicly traded companies worth tens of billions of dollars each. He actually is the one who I learned how to do this from. And so with the team at HubSpot, we put together all of my research, tactics, frameworks, techniques on spotting different opportunities in the market, reverse engineering companies and figuring out exactly where opportunities are versus just coming up with a random, silly idea and throwing it against the wall and hoping that it sticks. And so if you want to see my framework, you can check it out. The link is below in the YouTube description.

[Sam Parr]

So I started thinking, how do I make money on this? All right, so the first way I should have made money on this was when my wife started telling me about this, which was, I don't know, six to eight months ago. I should have either bought the stock. I should have looked. I didn't even think it was Going to be a stock. I just thought it was like a stuffed animal. I didn't think it was a public company, should have bought the stock or, you know, you could have. Could have tried to collect and flip. Okay, that's too much effort. So what's the play here? So I went and looked up. I asked AI, I said, tell me the last five craze, toy crazes as crazy as Labubu over the last 50 years and compare them.

[Shaun Puri]

What were some of the other ones? So it would have been cabbage.

[Sam Parr]

Cabbage Patch was the first one that it came out.

[Shaun Puri]

Beanie Babies.

[Sam Parr]

Beanie Babies was the second.

[Shaun Puri]

I think trolls were popular for a minute, but I don't know if they were a craze.

[Sam Parr]

Then it gave me Pokemon, Pokemon cards, which had two, two bumps. There was the one when we were kids where buying and collecting packs reached about about the same revenue, about $2 billion a year. And then it died down for about 20 years. And then recently with like kind of Logan Paul started collecting them again. The video game, another peak. And it had 1.6 billion in its sales on the cards recently. So Pokemon. And then the last one it gave me, which was, I thought kind of interesting as AI, but actually is a good point because I was thinking maybe Furby's or Tamagotchis. I didn't. I didn't know what it was going to give me. Those were smaller. It gave me Stanley Cups, which actually makes total sense because it's the same thing. It's the exact same thing. And so it gave me those. And the funny thing about these is, on a scale, on the scale, Labubu is actually still small. So this doll did about 700 million. Those all at their peak, were kind of like 1.6 to $2 billion in sales. So I actually expect that over the next year this thing goes. Even the Star kind of goes viral. Nova, it burns out and it hits a 2 billion or 3 billion in revenue and then it's gonna crash.

[Shaun Puri]

Because the funny thing with all of.

[Sam Parr]

These is they all had about a two to three year peak tops. And so I think the actual play, if you wanna make money on this thing, is to short Popmart stock starting around end of 2026 and maybe through 2027. Now shorting is dangerous because you can lose your shirt because shorting has sort of asymmetric downside. But if you. I think if you were a betting man, the odds are that, you know, by 2027 this thing is not a $44 billion company anymore.

[Shaun Puri]

What was the Name. Okay, so you had a friend. Michael. Michael Smith. Michael Acton Smith. He had a. The guy who created calm.com. before he created calm.com, the meditation app, he actually had a toy, a stuffed animal toy company called, like, Minnow Monsters or something.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, that's right. What was the name of this? And so his company was called Mind Candy, and it was. Moshi Monsters was a mobile game, if I remember correctly.

[Shaun Puri]

This is all 15 years ago, so it's harder to remember everything. But he raised lots of money as a technology company almost, or at least from tech vcs. And he was like, I'm going to build a massive toy business. And I remember reading at the time, this is insane. You're stupid. But now that I think about it, there's been many examples of where that is not stupid. And this is yet another one of them where you could actually build a really cool IP toy company. And he was. Sounds like he was on the right track. It didn't work out.

[Sam Parr]

He was. Dude, it was big in the uk, so in the uk it was like, I don't know, one out of every three kids is playing Moshi Monsters. It was, like, insane. It was like 90 million users globally. And I remember meeting him, I think it was still during the. Kind of like, it was kind of like the tail end of the peak. So it was big, but it was. It had stopped exploding. And he was like, that's okay. We're gonna, like, try to turn this into a thing. And he was telling me, they're making Moshi shampoo and body wash, and, you know, it's going into every category, but unfortunately, that one didn't work out. We have to get Michael on, by the way. I was gonna say that we have.

[Shaun Puri]

To get Michael in the pod because.

[Sam Parr]

Have you met him? He is one of the coolest guys I've met. He's such a nice guy. First of all, like, total, genuine good dude. Super creative, really creative genius. And then also, like a rock star. Kind of like, would you meet him? You're like, oh, I'm talking to Russell Brand's like, you know, cooler, cooler brother.

[Shaun Puri]

You should. Everyone should Google him. His name is Michael Acton Smith. And I remember back at 14 or 13 or 12 where, I mean, I'm still interested in this, but I was like, I want to be like. I was, like, looking for a person. I wanted to be like. And it was like, him. He would be. There was, like, photos of him, like, holding hands with, like, Paris Hilton or like. He was like, if you Google, like, Michael Afton Smith, like, but they're not even dating.

[Sam Parr]

That's the best part. Just hold their hands.

[Shaun Puri]

He was like. He had, like, paparazzi photos of him because he would have this, like, tech angle, even though he wasn't exactly in tech. But if you guys Google him and see what he looks like, you'll understand. He looks.

[Sam Parr]

Daily Telegraph described him as a rock star version of Willy Wonka. That's his Wikipedia page.

[Shaun Puri]

It's great. This guy was so cool. And now he has since started calm, which I have no idea how big it is, but it's hundreds or hundreds of millions or billions.

[Sam Parr]

A multibillion dollar company.

[Shaun Puri]

He's the man. This guy's absolutely the man. And he's been the man for 20 years.

[Sam Parr]

He has. He has. He. He is. He's amazing. Okay, I'm going to call him after this and be like, I will fly to you.

[Shaun Puri]

Let's do an episode, because where's he even live now?

[Sam Parr]

I think he was in the uk. He was kind of back and forth between, like, you know, US and uk. I think he's in the UK now.

[Shaun Puri]

He's just like a rich guy now. He just, like, does what he wants.

[Sam Parr]

Well, I don't. I think he always did what he wants. That's why he was. That's why he was our hero.

[Shaun Puri]

That's the difference between.

[Sam Parr]

To do with being rich.

[Shaun Puri]

That's the difference between guys like me and guys like him. I guess, like he.

[Sam Parr]

Exactly. Money. And money chased him.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, he didn't run very fast. This guy's the man. Cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty impossible, but that's exactly what Sandler Training did with HubSpot. They use Breeze, HubSpot's AI tools to tailor every customer interaction without losing their personal touch. And the results were incredible. Click through. Rates jumped 25%, qualified leads quadrupled, and people spent three times longer on their landing pages. Go to HubSpot.com to see how Breeze can help your business grow.

[Sam Parr]

Okay, I have another one for you. Can I give you another one? So we did kids toys. I have another one. You might know the story of this one. Have you ever had one of these before?

[Shaun Puri]

Okay. What's this?

[Sam Parr]

Oh, I'm holding up.

[Shaun Puri]

No, it looks like. What is that, bubble gum?

[Sam Parr]

A box of Tony's Chocolone.

[Shaun Puri]

Hell yeah, brother. I love Tony's chocolate. Do they have some that have Pop Rocks in them?

[Sam Parr]

By the way, I've been saying it wrong for a long time. It's not Tony's Chocolone. It's Tony's chocolonely. Do you know that?

[Shaun Puri]

I just call it Tony's. I love Tony's. I learned I have always bought them. And then when we hung out with Mr. Beast, I kind of. He told me us the backstory. I didn't realize how amazing they were. I love Tony's.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, yeah, they're. And their backstory is even better than I thought. Cuz when we were hanging out with Jimmy, he was like, oh yeah. I, you know, he, for. For Feastables really wanted to get Feastables to have a supply chain that had no child labor. He's like, you know, most of the cocoa farms in Africa have child labor. All the big chocolate brands, you know, Hershey's, etc. They all buy from them. When I learned that that was effed up, I went over there and we try and we've basically been spending, you know, couple years now trying to fix the supply chain so that that doesn't have to be the case.

[Shaun Puri]

He was like every company, I don't like this, this or that thing about him. But there's one company that I really admire that seems to be doing something well. And I think that's how he like phrased it. And he said Tony's is the one they do things right is basically what he's.

[Sam Parr]

Exactly. And he actually called the founders of this and learned from them of like okay, what do I need to do? Which is cool because they were the ones who were who initially made the push. But do you know the backstory of why they made the push into doing this?

[Shaun Puri]

Wasn't it started by an actor or a famous person in Holland or something like that?

[Sam Parr]

A journalist.

[Shaun Puri]

A journalist, okay. It was like a non business person who started it. And they started it. It's one of these cool stories where they didn't so much care about chocolate. They cared about like helping the earth or human rights or something. And we're just so happened to be doing it via chocolate. Like it was some like story like that, wasn't it?

[Sam Parr]

So the story is these. I think there was two Dutch journalists, but these two Dutch journalists, they're covering the chocolate industry on their TV show and they hear about, you know, that the chocolate companies are all the chocolate, all the cocoa comes from West Africa and that there's a lot of child. Yeah, slavery and child labor. So two separate things, right? Slavery and then child labor happened. Happening on the farms there. So they want to go and investigate. So they go down there, they investigate, they find that it's true. And they put, you know, they put out a story to try to help. And I think the exact story is that at one point all the big chocolate companies signed like a treaty. They signed like a pact to say, we're gonna stop this. And I guess like years later, they had gone back, they had gone to investigate, and it was like the exact same situation. They saw that kind of nothing had really changed. And so these guys are pretty disheartened by it. So they decide, like, this is where the story gets crazy. Because a normal person, even a normal, a great journalist would just report the story, maybe use some, some, some choice language when they, when they talk about it. And then they would shake their finger at them and move on. But these journalists went and did like, you know, took the exit off of High Agency Avenue and were like, no, no, no, watch this. And so the guys, they come back and they do that. They decide to do a publicity stunt. So he eats the chocolate and he calls the police. And the police come and they're like, what are you doing? And he goes, I'm eating chocolate that was made with slave labor and child labor. And they're like, that's what, that's not a crime. You're eating chocolate. That's not a crime. He goes, no, no, no. Actually, according to statute, blah, blah, blah, knowingly consuming this product, knowing what I know, that this is the product of child labor and slave labor, that's actually illegal. Arrest me, boys. And so they lock him up, they take him to jail, and that becomes this viral sort of news stunt that brings even more attention to this. Now prosecutors end up dismissing the case because they're like, we're not gonna prosecute this. But they decide to go in and create their own ethically made chocolate brand. And they decide to call it Tony's Chocolonely because they're like, the guy's name is Toon, but in the. That's his Dutch name. But the like Americanized, westernized version of tone, I guess is his name would be Tony. So they go, Tony's. And instead of. And he said, it's going to be very lonely to build a chocolate company that's actually trying to be like, ethically sourced. So he called it Tony's Chocolate Lonely. Okay, great. And that's how they felt in their fight against the cocoa industry. And it becomes a hit pretty much right away. They sell 20,000 bars in two days because of the public resonance with their story, and it becomes the best selling chocolate brand in their market, which is the Netherlands. They get like 20% share in the Netherlands. It passes up Mars and Nestle and other competitors there. And then they start expanding and they keep expanding and then they start finding like minded brands. So they're, you know, I don't know if you know about Ben and Jerry's, but Ben and Jerry's is also one of these like very sort of like.

[Shaun Puri]

Strong ethical, moral opinion driven. They, they stick to what they want to do.

[Sam Parr]

Good people, corporations. I actually saw Ben or Jerry, I forgot which one. Talk at an event I was at like 15 years ago. And I remember being pretty blown away by the like how genuine it was for them and how the extent that they had gone. Right. So for example, I don't know if you know, it's like they have this one flavor that's like their brownie flavor. I forgot. Like, you know, I'm so fucking fit now I can't even remember the name. Dude.

[Shaun Puri]

It's insane.

[Sam Parr]

It's chocolate fudge brownie. Something fat people eat. So. So that's so my past.

[Shaun Puri]

I just. You're like, I barely remember how that felt last week, by the way.

[Sam Parr]

Meanwhile, I'm holding up this Tony Sock alumni. Three bars are missing from this pack. Blame it on the kids.

[Shaun Puri]

My wife gets pissed off at me because whenever we bring like a treat to like a friend's house, we bring dessert, they cook dinner and like it's like already open mouth. She's like, what the hell? You can't like give like a pack of ice cream when there's like one. I'm like, why not? We're going to open it anyway, like half an hour. Why can't I open it now? That's sort of like, that's sort of what happened.

[Sam Parr]

Exactly.

[Shaun Puri]

She's like, I'm a. She's like, I'm a. She always compares me to like a bear looking in the cabinets for honey. And I get my dude, my brother like this.

[Sam Parr]

My brother in law Aaron, he's. He's one of these people that like, you know, doesn't, you know, doesn't eat a ton in general. Like food's not a big, he's not a big foodie. Yeah, but if you leave like a snack, he's like a bear. Like if you leave a treat in their house, it's gone by the morning. And you're like, did you wake up? And. And so like he'll eat the whole bag, right? Of anything. And so my sister calls it like with Oreos, like, like we got a pack of Oreos, right? And she's like, oh my God, Aaron's doing a line right now. And doing a line to her meant you eat the entire row of Oreos. Like he did a whole line. And I just thought that was so fun.

[Shaun Puri]

Aaron likes to party.

[Sam Parr]

Exactly. We gotta have it back on, brother Aaron, the OGs, the real OGs. Now he used to, he had two guest cameo experiences, like way back in the first 30 episodes. It was hilarious. Anyways, Chocolate company. So Tony's Chocolate only. What do they do? Or Ben and Jerry's to finish the Ben Jerry's thing, they opened up a factory, I think somewhere like in upstate New York or something like this. And they, they, it was after they met. What's it called when you get out of jail and like you're in the program but you like don't want to go recidivism. Like they, they wanted to reduce recidivism. Like people go back, end up back in jail, which is traditionally incredibly high, is really high. And one of the big drivers of why do people who after a long sentence get out and go back? It's not because they're like kind of morally corrupt at their core. It's like they couldn't get a job and then they didn't have any money and they didn't have a social life.

[Shaun Puri]

And previous friends were losers or they left prison without knowing anyone, but only had 50.

[Sam Parr]

Exactly. And so a big one way to decrease recidivism is if people can get a job, but nobody wants to give them jobs. So they created a whole factory. Their brownie factory is all brownies made by ex cons. Basically that Ben and Jerry's flavor. They like wanted to, they met some guys who had a good, good recipe and they like built a factory around them essentially. So they're, they're do gooders. So Tony Chocolate, only to break into the US Starts partnering with Ben and Jerry's and the revenue has just grown and grown and grown. And so like last year, I think they did 200 million in revenue and they made this like a legit chocolate company that started with two journalists just basically trying to make a stand against the man. How cool is that?

[Shaun Puri]

This is awesome. This is so cool. Do they run the company now?

[Sam Parr]

No. So they're out now. There's like a CEO. It's just kind of run by like, you know, normal suits basically at this point. And they get some flack because like their supply chain is still not perfect, but they're very transparent about it. So the crazy thing is like they'll report that they had, like, you know, 11 issues this year of, like, child labor discovered in their supply chain. And people are like, see, you're not totally free. And they're like, what? We're trying to, like, we're trying to be transparent and say, you know, we. We're way less than anybody else.

[Shaun Puri]

We're.

[Sam Parr]

And we're also honest about this and we're reporting it so that we can keep improving this. But they get some flack as, like, you know, I guess, like, skeptics say that maybe they're just greenwashing at this point since the founders left. And even I think the founder has sort of alluded to, like, it's not the same since we left. I don't know the exact story. It's like I'm trying to read these, like, Dutch translations of articles and decided that, like, I'd rather just eat the chocolate and chill. So I'm not sure the exact story, but I think there's maybe a little controversy around that.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, I. I've known about this brand for a while and this. And I didn't know the. I only knew what. What Jimmy had said, which wasn't in this depth. But that makes me like them way more. The product's awesome. I mean, I love the brand. They also. And I. I eat the shit out of them. I mean, it's. It messes me up. But that's cool.

[Sam Parr]

Maybe you could be the influencer that blows them up even more. Sam Par. I eat the shit out of them.

[Shaun Puri]

It's just like most of my, like, guilty evenings start with a bar of Tony's, like, in the end jar of honey. Let's not admit how much time we got. The. The issue is they would sell their candy like it used to come in, like, the extra. It was like a huge bar. They only sell in bulk. By the way, did I ever tell you about the time we were talking about recidivism? This is not entirely related to business, but I think you'll get a kick out of this. Did I tell you about the time. Do you know that I've been to, like. I think we've talked about this. I've been to San Quentin a few times in Indiana State Prison.

[Sam Parr]

So you've mentioned that you did, but I don't know the exact story.

[Shaun Puri]

What's to tell you the background of this? So I've gone to. I have a friend who I'm. This is the story. It's going to be him, but I've been to Indiana State Prison a couple times. Or once I went to San Quentin a few times. One time we went to Indiana State Prison. So we, we go because my friend has this charity called the Last Mile. And the idea is like when you commit a crime, particularly murder, you're not always sentenced to life. You're inevitably going to get out and it's better for that person if, if they get out and have a job. It's better for society if they get out and get a job. And it's better for the taxpayer if they get out and get a job because you don't want them to go back to prison because that's, that's bad for everyone. And so it's, we are all incentivized, it's totally bipartisan to get this person to be trained and to get a job. And so this company, the Last Mile, started by my friend Chris, they help you learn. I think when I went, I think they were learning WordPress. I don't know what they learned now, but this was a while ago. They were learning WordPress or they were learning like some front end development. So you can get a job at.

[Sam Parr]

Like an ebay or like coding now.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, I don't know what they do now. Yeah, they have like some like weird like, like Hot or not app. They're just leaving NFTs. Yeah, I don't what these guys are doing, but my friend Chris started it and he was a prominent venture capitalist. He helped, he was the first investor in Wish, he was an early investor in Snap. He did Boom. He did all these other like cool startups. And for some reason one day he went and volunteered at San Quentin at a prison. And he was like, I think this is my life's mission to like help reduce recidivism, meaning when you get out of prison and you don't go back. And so he created this thing called the Last Mile. They now have hundreds of employees. They've had thousands of people who have gone through their program. And I, up until recently he told me the stat a couple of years ago. So I don't want to like jinx them and I don't know the update, but of the thousand or two thousand people who graduated, not one had ever been back to prison. And that's like a huge thing. And, and so it's really interesting that this tech person has like, he quit so he doesn't invest anymore. This is all he does. And I talked to another guy, Mike Novogratz, he was on the pod two weeks ago and that's his thing now too, is reducing recidivism so reducing the rate that you go back to prison. But I know a bunch of people who have given up their careers to go pursue this.

[Sam Parr]

I'm on their website right now. Pretty crazy stats. It Sundays since the 70s, the prison population in the US has increased by 700%, which is not what you would expect. You know, that's not just like, oh, that makes sense. It should grow every year. It's like, no, no, the prison population should not necessarily grow at that rate. It says that every prison, Every person in prison has an annual cost to the American taxpayer of $70,000, which means we pay about $50 billion a year is spent on state and federal prisons. Isn't that crazy?

[Shaun Puri]

That's amazing, right?

[Sam Parr]

The Last Miles. Participants in the Last Mile who go through their. I guess it's like an education program as they get out, have a 75% employment rate when they come out, which is great. I wonder what the non. I wonder what the baseline is. It's gotta be half that or something.

[Shaun Puri]

Well, so basically what happens. And I. And I talked to some of these guys when they were in there. They were like, look, when I got out, I had been in for 10 or 15 years. I was a thug. Like, I didn't want to associate with my old people. And like, my family had either died or wasn't around. And they basically gave me a bus ticket and 50 bucks. And I was like, sir, where do I go? I'm not sure where I go to right now. What do I do? And so they're like, that's why I came back here, is I just started going back to how I used to behave.

[Sam Parr]

By the way, why does he have a. This guy. Chris looks awesome. Chris Redlitz. Why does he have a serious radio show? Does that get broadcasted into. In the prisons in some way or, like, is that just an external thing?

[Shaun Puri]

Both. So he had. So Chris is interesting. So we had Michael Harris on the pod. Michael. Harry O. Is his nickname. Harry O. Is the founder of Death Row Records. Chris is kind of. He. I joke. He's an og. He's an original gangster. So he knows all of these guys. So he's friends with Dr. Dre, Snoop, the founders of Death Row, all these cool guys. And they all have this, like, blend of, like, hip hop, but also, like crime like, interests. And so he decided to have a show with Sirius where he would get. Get some of these cool guys on the radio show and they would talk about what his issue is. But also it was like wrapped up in like, kind of cool stories because it's kind of like, like hip hop and like celebrity. And so he had a show for serious where he would talk about it.

[Sam Parr]

This guy's living the dream. Got rich, decided to do good in the world. Has a great podcast, the Triple Threat.

[Shaun Puri]

I love it. He's cool. And so he actually. So I became really close with him. He invested in my company when I was a 25 year old or 26 year old in San Francisco. Very coincidentally, we both moved to this small town in Westport, Connecticut together. And we hang out all the time. And his wife, her name's Beverly, she's a 95 pound woman. And I've been to San Quentin and we were walking on the yard with these guys doing like bench press and sit ups and whatever. And I walked with this little lady through the yard and the Red Sea parted and she just walked through and she's like, tyrone, how are you? And she would go, miss Bev, nice to see you. It was the craziest thing that I've ever seen. It was like, I'm telling you, she like ran this prison yard. She was the only woman there. And it was the craziest thing I've ever seen. And they have a joke that says, if it glow, you may go. When you walk in to San Quentin, they stamp your hand. And so when you leave, you have to show them your stamp underneath. Underneath a black light in order to get out. And they would do jokes where she would wink at the guy when I'm walking in and he didn't actually stamp me, he just pretended. And I would go to scan my hand to leave and my hand didn't glow. And they're like, sir, you cannot leave. We have to get this figured out. And I was like, I'm not staying here. So like they would pull like tricks on you. Like when you go and see this place, it was wild. But Chris and Bev are two people. When I think of how to live life, it's them. That's the way to go.

[Sam Parr]

That's dope. Can I tell you a related story? So my buddy Trevor was writing a book and he did this great, A very smart move, which I never really heard anybody else do, but I thought it was a good idea. He goes, hey man, check your email. I check my email and there's like a plane ticket. And it's a plane ticket to go see him. And he's like, I'm going to do. I want to write this book and I want it to be great. And I could sit Here and brainstorm this on my own. But I really want to do something that I'm calling a bookstorm. And he basically decided to fly out the five kind of smartest, most interesting people he knew to hang out with him for a day and just help him flesh out and brainstorm the book together. And he's like, I will owe you one for life. But I just really respect you, trust you, and I really want your help with this because I'm trying to make this great. I go. And in the room is basically my buddy Trevor, his brother. And then there's the head of, like, the women's volleyball, the U.S. women's volleyball team, which is, like, way outperformed in the Olympics and won, like, a bunch of gold. And there was one other person, and then there was this guy Larry. I'm like, oh, I'm a professional brainstormer. This is literally what I do. I'm like, just ready to rock and roll. But I'm just blown away by this guy Larry. Every time this guy Larry opens his mouth, he says something that's super wise, super smart, on the nose, just a few words, but he's always on point. And so after about an hour, the brainstorming around the book, I was like, dude, I got to ask Larry, I missed the intro. What's your story, dude? Because you're incredible. And Larry tells the story where Larry's like, you know, I. My name's Larry, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, I was incarcerated for the past 22 years, and I think he had just gotten out. I don't know how long it had been. Maybe a year or two, something like that. And he goes, yeah, from the age 18. He's now 40. He's like, at age 18, I was arrested, and I was in for whatever, 22 plus years. And I was like, larry, no offense, but you just got out a couple years ago. How are you so smart? How do you know all this stuff?

[Shaun Puri]

Just read all that.

[Sam Parr]

He would have these amazing polls where whatever we were talking about, he would reference this thing in this book and this quote he could just recite by memory.

[Shaun Puri]

So, Larry.

[Sam Parr]

I'm like, larry, how do you know all this? And he goes, I was incarcerated at age 18. They lock you up and throw away the key, right? You're basically the lowest man on the totem pole for society. Nobody invests in you at that point. You're a sunk cost. And so he's like, I was getting in trouble, and it was a rough place, and it was not a good time. And he's like, I made a decision. I'm no longer in prison. I'm in university. He's like, so every day I just studied, I just decided to go to university for the past 20 years. He's like, I decided to read all the books and learn and write and better myself. And he's like, I would literally change what I saw. I would walk in the prison yard and I wouldn't see the barbed wire. He's like, I saw roses. He's like, I literally just brainwashed myself that I am not in prison, I am in university. And I carried myself like that and I acted like that. He made the most of what was otherwise a very bad situation. I just remember being so blown away and inspired by this guy Larry. When I heard that, heard that story, because I was like, you know, if Larry can do that at a life sentence in prison, this sounds stupid, but, like, then I can be born in a line at Starbucks for an hour or, you know, whatever. Like, I. You can change where you are. You don't have to be in the situation that it looks like you're in. Like, you can literally just decide, no, no, I'm in university right now. No, no, I'm in a spa right now. No, I'm in. I'm in the brainstorming session right now. I mean, I am where I want to be.

[Shaun Puri]

That's so cool. Yeah, it's really challenging because on one hand, for some reason, you start, you feel like sad for someone, like, because you beat someone. Like, a lot of the guys I met, they, I think they kind of had atoned for their sins a little bit where, like, they've changed. But you're like, oh, I feel so bad for you. Like, that sucks. You deserve this. And then you like, learn about what they did and you're like, ah, actually no. Like, consequences exist for a reason. Like, that sounds fair to me. And it creates like a. You get. Whenever I've done these things with these guys, I get so many mixed emotions. It's a very challenging thing. It's a very hard thing to be part of too. But it is a no brainer, right? You want someone to like, not go back. So you guys know this, but I have a company called Hampton joinhampton.com. it's a vetted community for founders and CEOs. Well, we have this member named Levon. And Levon saw a bunch of members talking about the same problem within Hampton, which is that they spent hours manually moving data into a PDF. It's tedious, It's Annoying, and it's a waste of time. And so Levaan, like any great entrepreneur, he built a solution. And that solution is called Moku. Moku uses AI to automatically transfer data from any document into a PDF. And so if you need to turn a supplier invoice into a customer quote or move info from an application into a contract, you just put a file into Moku and it auto fills the output PDF in seconds. And a little backstory for all the tech nerds out there. Slavon built the entire web app without using a line of code. He used something called Bubble IO. They've added AI tools that can generate an entire app from one prompt. It's pretty amazing. And it means you can build tools like Moku very fast without knowing how to code. And so if you're tired of copying and pasting between documents or paying people to do that for you, check out Molku AI. M O L K U DOT AI all right, back to the pod.

[Sam Parr]

Did I tell you my embarrassing prison story?

[Shaun Puri]

No, but that sounds so awesome. This could go so many ways.

[Sam Parr]

So I go with this.

[Shaun Puri]

Were you making dad jokes? It's your first day in.

[Sam Parr]

So I moved to Silicon Valley, and I'm working with this guy, Michael Birch. And Michael Birch is this wonderful guy. Michael's built a successful career in Silicon Valley. He's basically like a billionaire. So one day he messages me like, pack a bag with enough clothes for a day. I got two days. And meet me like at like, whatever. Like, meet me at like 8am at this spot. You're not going to work today? I'm like, all right, I don't know what's going to happen. So I go, and we start.

[Shaun Puri]

You had no idea where you were going?

[Sam Parr]

I think he tells me on the drive that we're going to. He's a part of this group called the Inside Circle. And Inside Circle was where they take guys from the outside to go meet guys on the inside. And it was at the prison Folsom. What was it called? Folsom Prison?

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, Folsom.

[Sam Parr]

And so we go drive there. It's a maximum security prison. And I'm basically just a huge wuss, right? So I don't know what. I don't know what I'm getting into. I don't know what. I didn't actually sign up for this. Michael's just kind of like, trust me, you'll like, this is good. You should do this. I still don't really understand what we're doing. I think it's like a. You Know, like, dare. Where they, like, scare you. They, like, take care straight. Like, you're like, I thought it was scared.

[Shaun Puri]

Are you going to.

[Sam Parr]

I thought we were. Observe from, like, behind this, like, really thick glass. I'm like, oh, cool. We're going to, like, watch. And I'm going to be like, wow, I learned so much today from observing.

[Shaun Puri]

Tapping on the glass.

[Sam Parr]

And then they open the door, and they're like, all right, guys, come on in. I'm like, what? And so we go in, and they're like, all right, you know, pick a buddy, pick a partner. And so I'm like. And I, like, pick this guy. And the program starts. Basically, it's like a men's group. So you sit in a circle, you talk about your feelings. Oh, and by the way, when I walk in, immediately my eyes are drawn to one person because it was so obvious to me, like, this was the hardest guy in the prison. Somehow this guy had sunglasses, and I don't know why he was allowed to have sunglasses. He had a walking. He had a cane, which I thought, like, you're not allowed to have, like, a. Like, something that could be, like, a weapon. But he's got a cane and he's got sunglasses. But he's not blind, by the way. He has the sunglasses, like, up on his head sometimes.

[Shaun Puri]

White guy or black guy?

[Sam Parr]

Black guy. And he had, like, an entourage. Like, he had, like, two guys with him who were really big and, like. But they deferred to him. And he was kind of older, and I was just like, I don't know who this guy is, but I've seen enough. Was he a somebody to know that this guy is somebody here and maybe somebody on the outside. I don't know. But he's somebody in here anyway. So he's in my group and his two, like, entourage guys. So we get in the circle, and I'm like, okay, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Am I giving advice? Is this a mentorship test? What is this? And it's like, no, no, no. You're here to talk about. You know, this is a safe space. Unpack your feelings. I'm like, oh, God. And so first guy starts, and he starts talking about how he's feeling. Pissed off. He's feeling pissed off. Cause, like, I mean, crazy story, but, like, he's locked up in here, and his sister outside is having. She was being abused by her boyfriend. He just wants to kill this guy. But he's on the inside. He can't get to this guy. He feels powerless, and he's sharing this heavy, emotional, real life problem. Yeah, like a grade A real life problem. And I'm. I, of course, because I'm horrible. I stop listening. I'm just, like, panicked thinking of what am I going to say? You know, when you're, like, supposed to be listening but you just actually just planning what you're supposed to say. I start doing that because I'm so.

[Shaun Puri]

Like, retell a fake movie so you sound hard. Like, yes. I'm like, my.

[Sam Parr]

My startup doesn't have product where I fit. Really grinding my gear. What the hell am I going to say? I don't have real world problems, right? Like, my life's pretty good. And the circle, we're going around the circle, and it's just one crazy, like, real problem after another. And then. And then it's getting to me, and I'm just like, what am I going to say? And so I'm like, all right, I guess I go deep in the bag. I'm like, all right, I do have. There is something that's like, pretty heavy. I don't really talk about this normally, but, like, I guess, thank God I have this, because this is the time and place to unpack this story. And so I started unpacking this story and in my mind. And also I'm like. I'm talking kind of slower and dramatically because I'm like, let me really ham this up a little bit. Let me not be me and laugh during this. Let me try to be serious here. And I think I'm doing a great job. And the guy with the glasses just midway through is like, man, I don't believe none of that shit. I'm like, no. And I immediately, I'm like, no, it's true. He goes, I know it's true. And I'm like, so what? Just to clarify, you said, still, are we cool? What's going on? And he was like. And he was like, man, that ain't your truth, though. And so he's like, it's true, but that ain't your truth. And I'm like, what is this puzzle? What is this riddle? I don't know what this means. And then creates this, like, really intense moment where I had to stand up. And he's like, they're like, all right, it's time to do the work. I'm like, what, am I gonna get beat up? And so he's like, he was right, right? He's like, what's your truth? And I'm like, what? I just feel. And I'M like. I'm like. I'm like, no, but that is a real situation that has happened to me. And they were like, no, what's your truth? And I was like, all right. The truth is, I'm just trying to say what I think you guys want me to say, because I just want you to like me. And I pointed the guy. I was like, I just want you to not hate me. And he looks at me, just stares at me. He stands up, he gets in my face, he goes, that's your truth. He gives me a big hug. And then we sat down. And then for the next hour, I was like, I don't know what the hell just happened, but I think I'm in a prison gang. And this is awesome. I think I'm accepted. This felt amazing.

[Shaun Puri]

That's called a breakthrough.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, I had a breakthrough. So that was awesome.

[Shaun Puri]

That was pretty awesome for the story. That's great. Did you. How did it end? Did you guys, like, exchange information? What do you do?

[Sam Parr]

Dude? Have you ever taken ecstasy? I haven't, but I assume that's what it felt like, because for the rest of the time, I was just like. The weight of the world was off my shoulders, and I just enjoyed myself. And I realized, like, oh, I could just be my insecure, neurotic self. And that's fine here. Okay, cool. I don't have to pretend. Great. And then they were like, cool. He ain't pretending anymore. We like this guy. Whatever you say. Now, we don't really care, but we just know that you're not pandering to us.

[Shaun Puri]

What value do these guys get?

[Sam Parr]

What a lesson learned.

[Shaun Puri]

What value do these guys get?

[Sam Parr]

Well, I think, you know, they live company hard life. No, I think it's just in general, they live a pretty hard life. And they go to this meeting every week, so they have this kind of like, two hours a week where they get to go and kind of like, as they would say, like, take the mask off, put the armor down. In fact, like, it would be a mix of, like, the Hispanic guys, the white guys, and the black guys in this session. But then they would openly say, like, yeah, but, like, his friend, like, shanked my friend. And so it's on, but here it's not on, but as soon as we get out, it's on again. And I was like, this is, like, a pretty bizarre dynamic. But they all agreed, like, all right, when we're here, it's whatever. When we're out there, it is what it is. That's the way that's just the way things are. I remember being like, that's insane. But, you know, understandable in a way. So they have this as a space where they can, like, de. Load kind of emotionally and mentally, which is important, and feel like a human being and be able to, like, express themselves. I think it's a pretty dehumanizing feeling, right. When you're again, locked up, throw away the key and, you know, anybody who comes in, they just see you as your label. Right. But, like, in that environment, for those three hours that we were there, you know, nobody was. There was no status. Nobody was better than anybody else. Or like, yeah, there was us, but I was worse than everybody else, I guess is probably the more accurate way of saying it. But, like, there was no. They got to, like, be treated well and be help and be. Just talk to one man, to another man, at least. Again, these are my. This is, like, my interpretation of it. I'm sure that people who do this more have, like, a more sophisticated way and a better way of saying it.

[Shaun Puri]

By the way, now that we're talking about this and we can wrap up, but Jack Smith, I forgot this is his big philanthropic cause as well. So Jack Smith, if you ask him what he's doing on a regular basis for a long time, I would say, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm pen pals with, like, people who are locked up. And they. I have a system where they can order any book and I'll get it for them.

[Sam Parr]

Isn't he giving books? Isn't it a book program?

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, where he created a website. I forget how he did it, but where they can order a book and he'll buy them any single book that they want.

[Sam Parr]

Dude, most generic name, Jack Smith. You can't find anything when you Google for Jack Smith.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Okay, well, maybe we do this. So there's the Last Mile, which you could donate to. So go To Last Mile. TheLastMile.org, you can donate there. There's Inside Circle foundation, where you can donate there. So maybe do a little good. So if there's anybody who's listened to this and inspired either to start your own thing or to attend one of these or to donate, go do it, man. Because it's seen it firsthand, does a lot of good, and I think doesn't get the type of attention that it would ever want. By the way, the Inside Circle guys, they also made, like, a movie, a documentary about the program.

[Shaun Puri]

And Chris Redlitz is the guy who's kind of my mentor. And someone I look up to. And you can find him on Twitter. He's, he's super low key, but he's been the seed investor of like, probably five to ten different unicorns. Hugely successful, and now has dedicated his life to this. So just DM him if you're want to do whatever. He's, he's pretty open. Do you think you're going to do.

[Sam Parr]

Something like this, by the way?

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, I haven't found my cause for a long time.

[Sam Parr]

Do you have like a career arc in mind where you're like, cool? I achieve. I climb success mountain and then I, you know, parachute over to like, you know, save the world.

[Shaun Puri]

I told Sarah that at the age of 40, I'm going to stop the getting of money. So I said, by, by 40, I will no longer pursue any money and we will have a cause and that's what we will dedicate ourselves to. That's what I, that's, that's.

[Sam Parr]

Wow. You've also told me that you're gonna disappear off the Internet. I think this is badass and you should talk more about this.

[Shaun Puri]

I said at the age of 40. Yeah, I want to get off the Internet and I want to not pursue any money making things ever again. I don't want it to like, ruin my perspective and just be a shallow capitalist and only care about that and just delete the Internet and just focus on like doing something good. That's, that's what, that's the current, that's the current plan.

[Sam Parr]

How old are you now?

[Shaun Puri]

I turned 36amonth ago. So I'm 36, four years away, dude. Do you think that's a crazy plan?

[Sam Parr]

Of course it's a crazy plan, but it's a pretty cool plan. I think it sounds pretty cool. I said before, are you, I mean, what's your level of seriousness about this? Is this like that's what's happening or like I'm just testing this out, seeing how these words sound in my mouth?

[Shaun Puri]

No, I, I just think that. I think that. I think if you only pursue making money, I think that you become a very shallow person. I think that there's more to life. I think that there's been so many times where I've seen something inspiring and beautiful and in my head I think, oh, then we could do this and turn it into this. And then like, optimize by doing this as opposed to saying, this is beautiful, this is wonderful. I want to experience. Let's keep it small. And so I want to like, force myself to appreciate that one of my heroes is this guy named Felix Dennis. He wrote the book how to Get Rich. Felix Dennis was a publisher in England where he founded a bunch of companies, a bunch of publishing companies. Eventually was worth 6 or $700 million. And he wrote that he was diagnosed with cancer, something like at the age of 60. And then at the age of like 61, while he was like learning about his cancer or something, he got into poetry. And he was like, I am obsessed with writing poetry. Why on earth did I not discover this sooner? And he quit business partially because he was dying and because he fell in love with poetry. And he wrote in his book that if I could do it all over again, I would have quit at the age of 40 because I had enough. And I would have pursued poetry because that was my calling. And I always found that to be amazing because I think that oftentimes when we're doing what we're doing every single day, we get caught into the make more, do more, optimize more. When it's like kind of I want to be in the present and I want to enjoy the things that I want to enjoy regardless if they make money. Because how many hobbies have you had where you're like, well, I would only do it if I could like make like, oh, I want to like buy these toys and like, maybe I could buy like 10 of them and turn to a money making thing. Now what you're doing is actually pretty cool. You, but you still have a capitalistic mindset to it. You are playing the piano and you are live streaming it, which I think is amazing. But in my head I'm like, I want to do that too. It's like, well, I only want to do that because I want people to see me learning a hobby. Do you know what I mean? And I like, that's like tainting.

[Sam Parr]

Well, I live streamed it once.

[Shaun Puri]

No, I'm not criticizing you. I'm criticizing, I was inspired to do it because I want glory. Do you know what I mean?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, yeah. And well, I, I learned pretty quickly when I started playing the piano that nobody gives a shit if you could play the piano. By the way. It's not like a thing. If somebody plays the piano well, it's like, oh, cool, you can play the piano well. They don't want to listen to even one song. Nobody wants to listen to somebody play a five minute song on the piano. That's a very like, clear thing to me since learning to play piano. But it doesn't matter because playing a five minute song is incredibly Fun. In fact, I sent Ben a text message. I'm going to read you this text message because I think it's very relevant to what we're talking about. So Pomp did a, a spac recently. Did you see this?

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, I, I, I saw it, but I don't entirely know what that means. But yeah.

[Sam Parr]

So our friend Pomp Anthony, they spacked a company. And the company's goal was to do the kind of Michael Sailor playbook, which is it's a bitcoin acquisition and finance company. And so what they're doing is they, they raise, I think, $750 million. They spacked it. It's now public. You know, it's going to be a public company. And they basically bought $750 million worth of Bitcoin. Then they're going to raise debt and buy more bitcoin, and they're going to.

[Shaun Puri]

Because companies or pension funds can own pump stock, but they can't own bitcoin. So this is how they get exposure to it. Is that right?

[Sam Parr]

That's one, one aspect to it. There's others which is like, it's levered so, like, you know, you could, for every dollar you put in, let's say you buy bitcoin directly, you could buy $1 of Bitcoin. But like, their thing might, they're going to borrow and buy more than a dollar of bitcoin for every dollar of equity. You know, for example, they also want to eventually turn it into like a full financial services thing. So essentially, like a bit. I think that's like part of the vision anyways. I don't know exactly what they're doing. There's, you know, they're only allowed to say certain things. But point is, it's like Pomp, this guy who's very much like us, I think he's the same age.

[Shaun Puri]

Similarly, I hang out with Anthony all.

[Sam Parr]

The time, creator on the Internet, good dude. And he's, you know, he's not like some uber, uber, uber genius that's like, you know, but he's like, relatable. That's what I'm saying. So he's like, he's like one of us. And it's clear that, like, you know, this didn't just happen. He's been working on this for, you know, some period of time, maybe six months, maybe a year, maybe two years. You don't know. So it's like, oh, wow, Pomp raised $750 million as this public company. Now I think he owns 8% of it. I saw from the Filing. So theoretically, pomp has $80 million of value from this. Right? Some creators make courses. Pomp's going to make probably hundreds of millions of dollars from this thing if it goes well. Okay? And that's clearly what he put a lot of energy and focus on and did a great job fundraising for. And I was texting Ben. I was like, wow, that's incredible. I was like, Meanwhile, I've logged 120 hours on the piano in the last six months. And I go, honestly, no regrets though. Fucking love the piano, dude.

[Shaun Puri]

So listen, you tweeted out, you said, I used to think jealousy was a bad thing, like a sin. And I try to avoid it, but jealousy is a wedding crasher. It shows up uninvited. And recently I started using jealousy to my advantage. Jealousy is an incredible signal. It tells me at a very primal, no logic level what my subconscious wants. It's a heat signal for taste. I don't obey the signal, but I do observe it and it helps me now. And so this sounds very strange, but when I saw what Pomp was doing, I was like, that's so badass. Congrats to him. But then, very weirdly, when I saw you streaming, you played the piano. For some reason, I thought that was oddly one of the cooler things you've done in the last year or two. And I felt stronger. And I'm like, well, why do I feel that? Why do I think that that is cooler? I don't know why exactly, but it relates to that tweet where I'm like, what's the signal there that that's sending? So anyway, I thought that was really cool. I thought that was significantly cooler. And I said this as well. When you were contemplating making a play or starting a business or something like that, it's like, I don't know. For some reason, the play is so much cooler. So I think I would pursue those, like, artistic things over the money thing. And this sounds like a very trite, you know, like, not everyone has the privilege to be able to do that, but I do think that, like, it's better for your soul that way.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, you could already, you know, hear the comments. Oh, it must be nice for you. You don't have to work. Another version of it is Tech Bros Discover Hobbies. There's more to life than money. Also, by the way. Both true. Both very valid points of view. I don't think it's the important point of view, but I do think they're valid points of view. I think the important point of view is try to figure out what you actually want to do and then pursue it in a relentless, sort of unashamed way. And I think it's very cool. When you said that thing, I think you told me, in five, seven years, I plan to delete my social media, disappear from the Internet. And now you're talking about, like, you know, and, you know, stop the. Stop pursuing the getting of money.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

I really hope you stick to that. I don't know if you will, because I think it's a very hard thing to do. It's like, hey, can you turn down, like, it's like being like, I no longer eat sugar. Right. It's like those people who, like, are like, I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna diet. Right. It's hard to stick to a diet, but if you actually did that, you would, like, shoot up in the rankings of, like, most badass people. I know. You know what I mean? You're already top 10, but you would shoot up.

[Shaun Puri]

I've got four years to go. I better get all. I better get all of it while I can. But I do think that. That it's also.

[Sam Parr]

Give me a percentage. How certain are you you're going to do that at the age of 40? I just need to know.

[Shaun Puri]

I'm gonna hold you to this 60 to 70%. I mean, look, I feel this. A lot of it has to do with family, too. Like, I feel like when my little kids start, like, talking and having personalities, I think I would fall in love with them even more. And I just want to, like, be a good example that there's more to life than just the getting of money.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm totally washed. Kids are so cute. I'm just washed up now. I can't do it. I can't do anything, dude. I'm just.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah. Like, the more personalities she shows, the more where I'm like, oh, nothing really matters except our health and being around each other.

[Sam Parr]

Right. Right.

[Shaun Puri]

I don't know. Is that. Does that stay linear, like. Or does it, like. Does it keep getting hired the more they talk to you?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, it is. But I think, at least for me, like, there's a. There is a cap. It's not one of these unbounded things. It's not like I want to spend every waking moment with you. I'm like, you got, like, you're too annoying. I'm too tired. This is too much. But it does. I do have, like, a. It became my favorite thing for, like, three hours a day. Like, for three hours a day. My kids are my favorite thing in the world. That's three hours a day that. My favorite thing used to be working. It used to be, you know, reading. There was other things that were in that spot of, like, that three hours a day of, like, voluntary time I could. I could direct towards anything. And now my kids are that right. Like, we're just, like, jumping in the pool with them and doing stuff or playing a game or whatever. That's like. It is super, super fun, but it is capped at, like, a three to four hours a day. Beyond that, I'm like, how dare my wife make me raise my own children? This is too much. I need to be helped and saved. Who's. Who's here to save me?

[Shaun Puri]

This is the softest episode we've ever had.

[Sam Parr]

All right, we should get off before we start crying.

[Shaun Puri]

All right, that's it. That's a pod.

[Sam Parr]

I feel like I could rule the world I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it. Like no days off on a road let's travel Never looking back.

[Shaun Puri]

All right, my friends, I have a new podcast for you guys to check out. It's called Content is Profit, and it's hosted by Luis and Fonzie Cameo. After years of building content teams and frameworks for companies like Red Bull and orangetheory Fitness, Louise and Fonzie are on a mission to bridge the gap between content and revenue. In each episode, you're gonna hear from top entrepreneurs and creators, and you're gonna hear them share their secrets and strategies to turn their content into profit. So you can check out Content is Profit. Wherever you get your podcasts.