NEW! 5 Live Callers Get Startup Advice from Hormozi & Shaan

Summary

Podcast Summary: My First Million – Episode: NEW! 5 Live Callers Get Startup Advice from Hormozi & Shaan

Release Date: August 8, 2025
Hosts: Sam Parr and Shaan Puri, featuring special guest Alex Hormozi and Leila Hormozi

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In this dynamic episode of My First Million, hosts Sam Parr and Shaan Puri, alongside guest experts Alex and Leila Hormozi, engage with five live callers seeking invaluable startup advice. The episode delves deep into diverse business challenges, offering practical solutions and strategic insights to help entrepreneurs scale their ventures effectively.

1. Caller One: Flo from Wentworth Protection

Business Overview:
Flo, based in London, runs Wentworth Protection, a company specializing in installing security bollards to prevent car theft. Starting as a side hustle in January 2024, Flo and his partner have grown their revenue from just under £250k in the first year to an anticipated £500k this year.

Key Challenge:
Flo's primary struggle revolves around generating effective content to boost lead flow. Despite successful door-to-door strategies and a robust mix of Google Ads and SEO generating approximately £9k monthly, Flo finds content creation time-consuming and not translating into significant lead increases.

Insights & Advice:

• Leila Hormozi ([03:12]): Emphasized the need to narrow lead generation strategies due to resource constraints. She suggested focusing on hyper-targeted customers and leveraging existing strengths in SEO and outbound outreach.

  “You don’t have a ton of capital that you can put to work or anything like that.” ([02:50])

• Alex Hormozi ([06:51]): Encouraged Flo to draw inspiration from successful competitors, highlighting the importance of mastering organic search through SEO.

  “You can work backwards from a business that already is doing what you're doing.” ([06:51])

• Actionable Steps:

  • Increase Google Ads Spend: Gradually scale from £3k to £9k monthly while maintaining return on ad spend (ROAS).
  • Revitalize Meta Ads: Develop simple, narrative-driven ads demonstrating the product’s effectiveness to attract more local customers.
  • Emotional Commitment: Address personal hesitations about transitioning from a side hustle to a full-time endeavor, fostering the necessary conviction to scale.

Notable Quotes:

• Flo: “I want money.” ([02:30])
• Leila: “If you're making money somewhere, make as much as you can first and then once you'd maxed google locally, I would completely put all your stuff in meta ads.” ([08:34])

2. Caller Two: Carson from Diamond Connect

Business Overview:
Carson operates Diamond Connect, a recruiting agency focused on streamlining the hiring process for businesses. Partnering with notable clients like True Classic, HexClad, and Hard Rock, Carson's agency generated £1.6 million in revenue last year, projected to reach £2 million this year.

Key Challenge:
Carson grapples with scaling his contingency-focused recruiting model efficiently. The primary obstacles include slow client communication and optimizing profit margins while managing a growing candidate pool.

Insights & Advice:

• Alex Hormozi ([15:22]): Clarified whether Carson's issue was operational or related to scaling the business model, guiding the conversation towards identifying demand constraints.

  “Is your question on the business model and the growth side of things, or is it on the operations?” ([15:22])

• Leila Hormozi ([16:58]): Advised shifting focus to outbound methods for generating more leads, leveraging existing strengths in outbound recruitment to increase demand.

  “All you have to do is just turn that external same exact funnel.” ([17:49])

• Actionable Steps:

  • Enhance Outbound Strategies: Utilize proven outbound methods to attract more clients, ensuring that the business can handle increased demand by recruiting additional recruiters.
  • Customer Vetting: Define and target ideal customer profiles to improve client relationships and streamline operations.
  • Implement Referral Incentives: Modify referral requests to garner better-quality leads and increase overall client satisfaction.

Notable Quotes:

• Carson: “We want to figure out how do I take this contingency recruiting business to £5 to £7 million while staying lean.” ([15:39])
• Leila: “Just make sure you do some napkin math on what does the top of funnel look like before I go try to beat my head against the wall.” ([30:08])

3. Caller Three: Jordan and Justin from Elite Travel Hackers

Business Overview:
Jordan Egbert and co-founder Justin run Elite Travel Hackers, assisting business owners in orchestrating luxury vacations valued between £30k and £50k using credit card points. Their services encompass optimizing points earning and maximizing their expenditure to facilitate first-class flights and five-star accommodations.

Key Challenge:
The duo faces difficulties in building trust and increasing close rates from cold traffic generated through content-based marketing, impacting their ability to scale.

Insights & Advice:

• Leila Hormozi ([25:30]): Recommended creating a compelling Video Sales Letter (VSL) to quickly engage and educate cold leads, thereby enhancing trust and increasing conversion rates.

  “So what's your price point right now? It scales depending on their number of trips...” ([24:46])

• Alex Hormozi ([31:03]): Stressed the importance of aligning growth efforts with scalable strategies, suggesting thorough evaluation of funnel metrics before implementing new tactics.

  “If you did this, would this get you where you want to go, or is this just one block?” ([30:08])

• Actionable Steps:

  • Develop a VSL: Craft a seven-minute video that succinctly presents the value proposition, addresses common objections, and reinforces trust through proof points.
  • Optimize Referral Processes: Enhance the referral script to elicit higher-quality leads by incorporating genuine compliments and specific referral requests.
  • Content Strategy Enhancement: Focus on creating high-impact content that directly addresses audience pain points, leveraging testimonials and case studies to build credibility.

Notable Quotes:

• Leila: “If you just do a very simple narrative ad with your iPhone, demonstrating the product and the problem that it solves and keep it under 60 seconds, I guarantee that you'll be able to get leads.” ([08:34])
• Jordan: “We see a lot more potential in getting more of a streamlined profit.” ([14:59])

4. Caller Four: Davi, a Content Creator from Brooklyn

Business Overview:
Davi is a prolific content creator with a substantial following of 350,000 followers and 200 million views over two years on TikTok and Instagram. His content primarily educates young men on internships, job strategies, dating, and financial management.

Key Challenge:
Despite a massive audience, Davi struggles to monetize his content effectively, lacking a clear business model or product to offer his followers.

Insights & Advice:

• Leila Hormozi ([39:32]): Outlined a risk continuum for content creators, encouraging Davi to explore low-risk monetization strategies such as affiliations, sponsorships, and white-labeling before committing to higher-risk ventures.

  “You have the luxury of being able to test product market fit before doing anything.” ([38:00])

• Alex Hormozi ([42:35]): Prompted Davi to define his entrepreneurial goals, distinguishing between being a content creator and leveraging content to build a scalable business.

  “Are you trying to be a content creator who makes money or you're trying to be an entrepreneur who uses content?” ([42:35])

• Actionable Steps:

  • Diversify Monetization Streams: Experiment with affiliate marketing, sponsorships, and creating low-ticket community memberships to gauge interest and revenue potential.
  • Develop a Signature Offer: Identify a specific problem within his niche and create a high-value offer, such as a mentorship program or an educational app tailored to his audience.
  • Leverage Audience Trust: Utilize the established trust with his audience to launch products or services that directly address their needs, ensuring higher conversion rates.

Notable Quotes:

• Davi: “I have distribution and no product.” ([33:59])
• Leila: “I want to do a Henry class. It's way better to be like, look, car got stolen. Like, literally, you can just do a before and after of... ” ([08:09])

5. Caller Five: Davi Alex – Content Creator

Business Overview:
Davi Alex is a content creator with substantial reach but lacks monetization strategies. He creates educational content for young men about career development, dating, and financial management, amassing significant views and a large follower base.

Key Challenge:
With a colossal audience, Davi faces the dilemma of effectively monetizing his reach without a clear product or business model, aiming to transition from content creation to a scalable entrepreneurial venture.

Insights & Advice:

• Leila Hormozi ([34:00]): Suggested mapping out a risk continuum and testing different monetization strategies before committing to a full-fledged business model.

  “You have the luxury of being able to test product market fit before doing anything.” ([38:00])

• Alex Hormozi ([42:41]): Urged Davi to clarify his true entrepreneurial intentions, whether to remain purely a content creator or to leverage his content into a broader business endeavor.

  “You want to be an entrepreneur. So I think the constraint of what business can I start using this TikTok audience for, this customer is actually not serving you at all.” ([42:53])

• Actionable Steps:

  • Build a VSL: Create a concise, impactful video sales letter to convert cold leads from content into paying customers.
  • Explore Product Affiliations: Start promoting relevant products or services that align with his content’s educational focus, earning commissions without the overhead of creating new products.
  • Engage with the Audience: Foster deeper connections by offering webinars, workshops, or exclusive content that can be monetized through subscriptions or one-time fees.

Notable Quotes:

• Alex: “Don’t constrain it, don’t tie one hand behind your back.” ([43:48])
• Leila: “You can just say, like, I did this thing and I learned this skill. You can still use it to recruit for whatever business you want.” ([44:57])

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Key Takeaways:

1. Focus on Scalable Marketing Strategies: Emphasize outbound and targeted advertising to drive growth, especially when dealing with resource constraints.
2. Leverage Existing Strengths: Utilize proven methods like SEO and outbound outreach to maximize lead generation and client acquisition.
3. Build Trust and Optimize Sales Funnels: Create compelling content and sales strategies that address audience pain points, thereby increasing conversion rates.
4. Diversify Monetization Streams: Explore various revenue models—affiliations, sponsorships, community memberships—to effectively monetize large audiences.
5. Clarify Entrepreneurial Goals: Distinguish between being a content creator and an entrepreneur to align business strategies with long-term objectives.

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Notable Quotes Highlighted:

• “If you have the opportunity, how do you make your pitch different?” – Alex Hormozi
• “If you're making money somewhere, make as much as you can first and then once you've maxed out Google locally, I would completely put all your stuff in meta ads.” – Leila Hormozi

This episode serves as a treasure trove of actionable advice for entrepreneurs navigating the complex landscape of scaling their startups. By addressing individual business challenges with tailored strategies, Alex and Leila Hormozi provide listeners with the tools needed to transform their ventures from side hustles into thriving enterprises.

Transcript

[Alex Hormozi]

I want to try something different.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's the Hormozi hotline. Take five listeners out of the crowd, have them call in, tell us about their business, tell us a business problem.

[Flo]

Cool.

[Alex Hormozi]

So this is the Hormosi hotline.

[Leila Hormozi]

Let's do it. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

[Flo]

I put my all in it.

[Leila Hormozi]

Like no days off on the road, let's travel. Never.

[Alex Hormozi]

Look, we got Flo here. Flo, I want you to give us the what's the name of your business and give us the 1 minute description of what you do. Give us a sense of where you're at revenue wise and then we're going to get to what's your biggest business problem and we're going to try to help you out here in a couple of minutes.

[Flo]

So like I said, I'm Flo, I live in London, I own a company called Wentworth Protection. And so what we do is we install security bollards on people's driveways. Now if you don't know what that is, basically like a metal pole that you put on your driveway to stop your car from getting stolen. I started this business as a side hustle in January 2024. So we're now like a year and a half in. It's just me and my best mate. We both still do this to the side hustle. We've got a couple of installation guys. First year we did just shy at 250k rev. This year we're probably going to do 500 and kind of the biggest issue we're having right now is content.

[Alex Hormozi]

The problem you solve is people in the UK are getting their car stolen and there's some. You put a pole in the driveway that prevents that?

[Flo]

That's correct, yeah. Car theft is just through the roof in the uk, especially around London. So this pole comes up through your driveway and I mean even if someone gets into your car, they just actually they're stuck.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, got it. So you get 2 to 50k year 1, 500, you're on pace for 500k this year. And give us the quick and dirty on how are you getting those customers today? Because you said it's a side hustle. So where are you getting business?

[Flo]

Yeah, yeah. The first three months is basically purely door to door Saturdays and Sundays just knocking on boards. Which by the way, in the uk people find that really, really strange.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Flo]

But now it's about kind of a 5050 mix between Google Ads, just like search and mainly SEO. So we get loads of organic leads coming in as well, and then a little bit of referral in there. Okay.

[Leila Hormozi]

All right. How much do the polls cost?

[Flo]

So average pick is about a thousand bucks.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so what's. So what's your. What's your. It cost you to install?

[Flo]

We go on roughly 50, 50% margin. So, like paying the information guys and buying the units, it's about 50% of. Of tickets.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, got it. So you make 500 bucks in gross profit per. Does that sound right?

[Flo]

Correct.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, got it. So what do you want to have happen?

[Flo]

I want money.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, got it. So what stopped you from doing more door too?

[Flo]

Honestly, it's a time constraint currently. It seems like that the. The conversion rate on door to door and the amount of time that it takes, it just doesn't equate to extra effort put into content or writing more blog posts or trying to reach out to commercial partners, that kind of stuff.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so one of the big things is like, I think you have to get a little bit narrower in terms of how you want to get leads because you're super resource constrained right now. Like, you don't have a ton of capital that you can like put to work or anything like that. And so it's like you've got search, you've got SEO. You just mentioned commercial partners, which I'm guessing you're doing through Outbound. Is that how you're getting it? And you also said content.

[Flo]

Yeah, Correct. Content is basically the nut that I'm trying to crack. I inherently know that content can be really big for this business, but it's just like we did a viral TikTok two days ago, did a million views, and it's just not translating to any increase in kind of lead flow.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. So, okay, I want to. I want to rewind for a second. I think that, so fundamentally, because you have these. You have these three ways that you can reliably get customers, and then you have this other way that you would like to get customers but aren't really getting customers from yet. Does that sound right?

[Flo]

Yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so why not, like, what are you spending on. On. On search right now?

[Flo]

About 3k a month.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, what do you make back on the 3K?

[Flo]

LTV CAC? About three to one.

[Leila Hormozi]

Three to one. Okay, so what stops you? So you're making nine grand a month roughly off Google?

[Flo]

Yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, and then SEO is bringing in how much?

[Flo]

About. About the same.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, what do you spend on SEO?

[Flo]

Honestly, I'm just doing it all myself. I buy backlinks every now and again, but I'm just doing all the writing and all the technical SEO myself.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, got it. And that's bringing like 9,000amonth as well?

[Flo]

Pretty much, yeah. It's about 50. 50.

[Leila Hormozi]

And you stopped doing door to door. Right now you're not doing it anymore.

[Alex Hormozi]

You stopped doing it because you got tired of it or because it stopped working?

[Flo]

No, it's just we. It was such a grind in the early days. It was like that was the way for us to get the business off the ground because we had no money and we just have to hustle, speak to people. But at the moment it's like, I still have a. I have a kid. My partner has a job. He has a kid.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Flo]

And for us to find any time.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Flo]

To go door through.

[Leila Hormozi]

No hurt heard. Okay, so. And then the rest is referrals.

[Flo]

Yeah, it's referrals. There's a few little platforms like nextdoor check a trade bark. Like we get a dribble in through those.

[Alex Hormozi]

But, but those must be small because you basically said about 10k from each of these. That's 20k a month. That's 480k a year. That's basically what you said. You're on track to do.

[Leila Hormozi]

20. Right. So that's. So that would get us 250. You said your, your run rate's 500.

[Flo]

Yeah, correct. So a lot of this is. Is pound. So the numbers I gave you.

[Leila Hormozi]

Oh, all right, whatever. Big picture. More better, new. Right. So if you've got, if you've got search and you've got SEO, you do. I will, I will. Like I am staring at the door to door thing. I'm not gonna, I will come back to it. But what do you have to make in order to quit the job?

[Flo]

We could quit right now. I'm just a little bit of a pussy, to be honest.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, fair. Well then how many hours are you dedicating to doing this versus the job?

[Flo]

It's like 40 hours on my job and 50 hours on this pretty wakeful moment. I'm working on this business.

[Leila Hormozi]

I got it. So let me ask you a quick question. If you actually just went door to door for 40 hours a week, I'm not saying you do this, but I just like to ask the hypothetical. If you went door to door, basically replace your job with spending 100% on door to door. I'm not going to say you do that, but just hypothetically, would you be able to replace your income if you did that?

[Flo]

I think probably not. I mean, it just, just like running really quick numbers. Let's say I get. Let's say I do make two sales a week or three sales a week from door to door, which would be really impressive for us at this point. That would bring in 1500 gross, 6amonth. That wouldn't cover it.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, great. So then what stops you from spending like, 10 grand a month on. On Google Ads?

[Flo]

Yeah, great question. So we just scaled our Google Ads from 1500 up to 3K.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Flo]

And it's taken us about two or three months to get that to scale.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Flo, one of the things I love about business is that every problem has already been solved. And so one of the things I would ask is, can you work backwards from a business that already is doing what you're doing? So are you the only guy doing this? Are you the only company that offers this service? And if not, who's that company? And how do they get customers?

[Flo]

Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of much, much bigger players in this space, and I think what they've cracked is they're just really, really, really good at organic. They just get like, maybe 5 to 8x the amount of traffic that we get.

[Alex Hormozi]

When you say organic, I don't think you're saying that the incumbents are amazing at TikTok. What do you actually mean when you say they get organic?

[Flo]

Sorry, I literally mean, like, Google search.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. So they rank. SEO is delete heard.

[Leila Hormozi]

Well, let me ask you this question, like, for. So if I. If I bought your business tomorrow, my first ads would probably be meta ads. Because, like, making meta ads work. Yeah, make making meta ads work. And the thing that you have is one, you have a clear fear. Like, people are afraid of cars, their car getting stolen. And I'm sure you can put some stats up on the board that shows, like, big arrow to the right. Oh, my God, cars are leaving. Right. And you also have a service that is. That is tangible and visible. Like, you can demonstrate it. Much harder to say, hey, like in a. In an ad. I'm really good at SEO. It's way better to be like, look, car got stolen. Like, literally, you just like. Like, you could just do a before and after of. Like, look, guy with a mask on gets in the car walks out. And then right afterwards, guy with the mask gets in, and then he's like, oh, no, this one. It's literally the. The ads that I would mirror are the carjack ads. If you so Google that, it's the little, like the.

[Alex Hormozi]

The bar you put on the steering wheel.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. You put on the Steering wheel, those ads and then you just go local targeting. Do a, you know, 10 mile radius or whatever that is in kilometers that I would bet you right now would get you. Like, that would scale, like really high. Like you could probably get to 10, 20,000amonth.

[Flo]

We did, we did meta ads in the early days and I told myself that didn't work, but it was just the crane, which is terrible.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, I'm sure it was. I mean, advertising works. It's not like meta ads don't work. Right. It's like you just needed to get the process down. But if you just do a very simple narrative ad with your iPhone, demonstrating the product and the problem that it solves and keep it under 60 seconds, I guarantee that you'll be able to get leads. And then all you have to do is just call them, get a deposit on the phone for you to show up, and then, and then roll the deposit towards the, the thousand bucks, which is like, hey, it's a hundred bucks for an assessment. It's just to make sure that you show up. And if you suck at sales, then say, hey, just put a card down and then I'll only bill you if you don't show. It's just to make sure. Cause I'm going to send a truck and a guy out there. It's just, we don't want to get no showed. Most people be fine with that. And then you just roll it right into the thousand bucks. If they just decide today. And that gives you a little bit of urgency in the sale when you show up.

[Flo]

Even better. We don't even have to show up. We, we can just, we can just do the whole we don't, we don't really do question.

[Leila Hormozi]

Alex, wait.

[Alex Hormozi]

You just install it on first go. There's no scouting.

[Leila Hormozi]

Explain that. So you just go out and install it first shot, right? Is that we're saying, yeah, they just.

[Flo]

Send us a picture. We say, let's go for it. They send us a 50% deposit.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, okay, great. So that's, I mean, literally, it's a phone sale. So if I'm looking at all this stuff, the first thing I would do is say, like, let's see if I could triple, you know, triple Google Ads. You already went to 3 3K. I'd be like, can we get to 9? And then it's like, cool. That buys you your job back, right? If it, if you got, if you tripled and you kept roas the same, would that allow you to quit? Yeah, right. And I would, I would. Before doing Meta I would keep hitting Google Ads until I can't do it anymore. I would buy all the traffic and then once I'd maxed out Google Locally, I would 100% put all my stuff in meta ads.

[Flo]

What's the rationale on keeping going on Google rather than just running with like doing now every, every extra penny in.

[Leila Hormozi]

The meta because you haven't done it yet.

[Flo]

Got it.

[Leila Hormozi]

If you're making money somewhere, make as much as you can first and then once you can't make any more, more better new.

[Alex Hormozi]

So Flo, one last thing that I think is important is you basically said something that I think is emotional but not logical. And I think you could counter either emotion with emotion or logic with logic, but don't try to counter emotion with logic. So you have, you basically were like, I haven't quit my job. Why? Because I'm being a bit of a pussy about it. So I think you got to have a conversation with yourself about how you feel about that. Do you want this to be a forever side hustle or would you actually like this to be your main business? And if so, where would you get the courage and the conviction to do this? Because you have some evidence, do you have currently enough evidence? Would you like some more evidence? What would that take? Because you know you're going to be limited by your own bandwidth in this business. And so we could give you five strategies that would work but if you only have 10 hours when you're fatigued to go execute them, you're going to walk away saying ah, it didn't really work because you didn't really try it. And so I think for your long term success you got to be able to go, go all in on this. And it maybe, maybe now's the time, maybe it's not only you know that, but it sounds like that's something to address today and try to figure out how do I want to think about that? I know how I have been thinking about it, but how do I want to think about that going forward?

[Flo]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

What's the narrative, what's the narrative to myself about that? So don't answer that now, but I think that's something worth doing. That's a, that's between you and your therapist. So, but, but, but I think it's important to answer that. I know a lot of entrepreneurs who have gotten success started on the side. I don't know a lot of entrepreneurs who finished with it as on, on the side. Right. So unlikely that that's your end outcome with this is that this stays a side hustle. And so the question is, how do you get there from where you are today?

[Flo]

Yeah, yeah. I love nothing more than being in the game, so I think that's where I'm headed.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, Flo, we've been charging at 199aminute, so you're. You owe us some money now. Thank you for calling the Hormozi hotline. We will see you later.

[Leila Hormozi]

Thanks, dude. Appreciate you.

[Alex Hormozi]

Let us know what happens.

[Flo]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Leila Hormozi]

See you at the book launch.

[Alex Hormozi]

Hey, let's take a quick break for a message from our sponsor, HubSpot, who's making this episode possible. Listen, if you're trying to build something big, and I'm talking about a hundred million dollar or billion dollar company, one of the most important things is to focus on the market. Where is the opportunity? You are like a surfer on a surfboard and you're trying to find the biggest, best wave possible for you to go on. Well, HubSpot has put together a cheat sheet that is studying and sort of reverse engineering what's working today. So they're looking at the top performing industries that you could be looking at, the funding routes that work the best and the growth strategies that the fastest growing companies are using. So if you want a one pager, that is a cheat sheet on the the big company playbook, you can get it right now. Just either scan this QR code that you see on the screen or click the link in the description below. All right, back to the show. All right.

[Leila Hormozi]

All right. What's up? Who am I speaking to?

[Flo]

Speaking of Carson.

[Leila Hormozi]

Nice to meet you, Carson. Pleasure man. Tell us about the business.

[Flo]

So, yeah, my name is Carson. I have a recruiting business. I tell my clients hiring should make you money, not cost you time. That's why I build Diamond Connect.

[Alex Hormozi]

I'm a customer.

[Flo]

I use this business, work with a lot of companies like True Classic, hexclad and Hard Rock.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Flo]

Full cyber recruiting.

[Leila Hormozi]

Got it. So you do, you do support or what, what, what roles do you recruit for?

[Flo]

Yeah, really all roles. Junior to sea level roles. Did a CMO for Sean, did performance, creative retention, social media, head of ops.

[Leila Hormozi]

So a lot more on the marketing and revgen side.

[Alex Hormozi]

Carson, here's your ad. Carson. Yeah, Carson found me my CMO for my E Comm business who's now the CEO of the E comm business. That's.

[Leila Hormozi]

That's as good as you can. There's your plug. There's your plug. All right. What's the, what's revenue Right now.

[Flo]

Right now for last year, did 1.6.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Flo]

Tracking it. Hit around 2.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, got it. So what's the. What's the issue? It's holding it back.

[Flo]

Few things. Being a contingency focused recruiting agency.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Flo]

Ultimately allowed us to, you know, get a lot of clients in the door.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Flo]

It does come with laws of pausing, rules.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Flo]

Slow communication, how to let get in the game. And so I think really, like, we learned once we unlock the first hire, they see the value and stick with that. Really just trying to focus on kind of building that first role with them to show them what we're doing.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, and what's the issue with your current way of doing it?

[Flo]

We have, like, a really good process. It's just we have a lot of clients that sort of like, pause role. There's a lot of potential table for candidates that we have that are interviewing. And I think there's a lot more potential of kind of getting more of a streamlined profit. Me getting less in the weeds.

[Alex Hormozi]

Carson, let me ask you a question, because I think. Ask a better question, you'll get a better answer. Is your question, how do I streamline operations? This is an operational question. Or is this a scaling question of, okay, I did 1.6. I did 2. I want to get to 5 or 4 year, and right now I don't feel like I'm able to do that because of either A, my business model or B, my operation. So is your question on the business model and the growth side of things, or is it on the operations?

[Flo]

Yeah, I would say more on the business side. Like the first you said. I guess I kind of said it in two questions. But mainly I want to scale. Right. We're about to hit 2 million this year. I see a lot of potential. I want to figure out how. How do I take this contingency recruiting business to 5 to 7 million being so lean.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. So how do you get customers right.

[Flo]

Now, really, like, 98 of referrals. You know, a really good. Really good palm base, really good customer base, and a lot of people in the E. Comm space. This is such a niche. You know, we get a lot of referral that way.

[Leila Hormozi]

Got it. So if I mean fundamentally, I'll say I'll ask a different question. If you double the amount of people who are asking for, you know, roles right now, would you be able to handle it?

[Flo]

I would say yes. I think I would need to bring on maybe a few extra recruiters in jail. But ultimately, like, these clients used me because of me and the Relationships, Sure. I'm trying to figure out how do I stay in the weed, but also kind of still ramp up and scale. Right? Like.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, so I'll cut you off for a second. Just. Yeah, so basically the, the, the question that I'm asking, I'll tell you the intention by the question, which is are you demand constrained? Are you supply constrained? Right. And so right now if I were to say I can go send you more business, could you handle it? If the answer is yes, then we don't focus on the supply side, we focus on the demand side. If it's, I could handle more, but I've got more people than, than I can handle right now and I need to go get more recruiters. So which side is it?

[Flo]

Yeah, I think we can handle more.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, great. So your demand constraint. All right, so from the demand perspective, if you only have referrals, then you need to have an input output in the business to get more leads.

[Flo]

Correct.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so, so it's actually going to be. So best way versus the best way for you will be two different things. So you've got your, you've got the core four. Have you read the book?

[Flo]

Correct.

[Leila Hormozi]

Right. So you've got, you've got warm outreach, you've got cold outreach, you've got content, and then you've got ads, and then on the other side, you've got affiliates. Right. Okay, so based on your background, you get recruits via outbound.

[Flo]

Yeah, like that's outbound. Outbound or really all referrals directly from clients.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. When you, when you recruited my CMO, it's because you're, you're blasting people on LinkedIn. Hey, would you be interested? Hey, I got something. You're doing outbound to get candidates, which means you have the skill and muscle of outbound already. You're just only using it for your supply. What if you used it for your demand?

[Flo]

That makes sense.

[Alex Hormozi]

Light bulb moment. Let's go.

[Leila Hormozi]

There we go. So fundamentally, you already know your, your metrics for your outbound funnel, which is like, you know, we do 100 connects and then 100 connects get us whatever, five meetings and then five meetings turn into one fix or whatever it is. Right. All you have to do is just turn that external Same exact funnel.

[Flo]

Yeah. Really just focus more on the outbound.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, because it's your main game. It's your main game. I wasn't gonna be like, hey man, learn ads. It's just like if you were like, you know what? We're really. Because the secondary thing, I'll just Be transparent with you. Because of the nature you're recruiting, you probably have access to very good marketers. And so if you could go recruit a CMO who could run the ads for you to go get those customers, that would also be a play. But in terms of if I'm gonna give like the absolute, I had to bet my baby on the fact that you'd be successful. I would say do more of the thing that you're already doing. Just change the. Change the target. That's it. And since you've recruited for a whole bunch of different roles, recruiting for customers, if you think about like that is I think, the natural step. And you can for sure scale that to the moon.

[Flo]

For sure. Question on the, like being a contingency focus. Right. Like a lot of scheme of the game, obviously it's low risk for them, high reward for us. How do I really kind of like demand sort of more communication, making sure clients are pausing roles? There's a lot of things out of our control at scale. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how I.

[Leila Hormozi]

Two things. Two things. So. Or three things. So one is going to be the customer vetting, right? You have to have certain types of customers. If you have shitty customers, they're going to treat you shitty. If you have good customers, they tend to be more professional. So part of that's going to be what is our ideal customer number one? Number two, the contingency thing, the question is whether it's a feature or a bug. Right. Like this may just be a. And like this happens all the time. I'll have these conversations, I'm like, what if we decide this isn't a problem anymore and all of our metrics of the business are fine.

[Alex Hormozi]

Hey, let's take a quick break. You know, HubSpot helped Tumblr solve a big problem. Tumblr needed to move fast. They were trying to produce trending content, but their marketing department was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign. But now they use HubSpot's customer platform to email real time trending content to millions of users in just seconds. And the result was huge. Three times more engagement and double the content creation. If you want to move faster like Tumblr, visit HubSpot.com all right, back to the show.

[Leila Hormozi]

So what are your margins right now?

[Flo]

Probably about 50%.

[Leila Hormozi]

Right? Okay, so your margins are fine. And the issue that you have right now is just like, it's like sometimes customers don't do what I want them to and I get it. And your preference is not for that. So the only tiny tweak you could consider when you have more demand, but you don't have that, which is why you have no leverage, is that you can say, listen, our way of doing this is that you put a card down. It is success based. But if you don't follow our process, we bill you a penalty because you're wasting our time. So you can do that. It's an easy, easy fix on the front end. And say, listen, the role is 15 grand for the, you know, the, the price range you're looking at. We get 30%, whatever the hell it is. Right, but we charge five if you waste our time. Now we don't want to charge you anything. Right? We don't want to charge you anything. Now if you get a little bit more, again, this is where supply and demand becomes important. If you continue to get more and more demand, then you start to have more and more, the leverage shift to you and you say, listen, I do half now and half when we complete the roll because I've got. And if you don't want it, that's fine. I got 10 other guys behind you.

[Flo]

Ah, yep, that makes sense.

[Leila Hormozi]

So you have no leverage right now and it makes sense. So number one, I don't think you have a, a steaming fire because you've got 50% margins and things seem to be going okay. You got 98% referrals, which means you're good at what you do. So I think we just need to put some more in the front end which is going to be take the outend engine, point it towards customers and then be hyper targeted about the customers that are going to be the best types. And ideally you probably know what they look like. Like if you take the top 20% of your customers now that are worth the most. The beauty of Outbound is you get to snipe who you want. And so you can just say, I'm only going after people who I know are going to do five roles a year.

[Flo]

That's a good way to put it that way.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Carson, I think, I think what Alex just said is huge for you. I would not have used you had you been like, give me a 20k retainer for this role. Why? Because you were a college kid, you're like 22 years old. You haven't even mentioned that it's not broken. You were doing this while you were in college. And so I think you use that to your advantage. So I think that reframing it in your own mind as a feature instead of a bug I think will do you a lot of good. Good again psychologically because it's your own mind as a founder that drives you nuts. And once you just literally just relabel the same experience you're having, you will have a new experience. And so try, try that out along with the outbound. Was that helpful, Carson?

[Flo]

Super helpful, both of you. Thank you so much.

[Leila Hormozi]

Rock and roll, baby.

[Alex Hormozi]

Later.

[Leila Hormozi]

Crush it.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, let's take maybe one or two more.

[Leila Hormozi]

What do you think, Homozy Hot oil. Let's do it. The weather is cold, but the deals are hot.

[Flo]

What's up?

[Alex Hormozi]

You're on the line. How you doing, Jordan?

[Leila Hormozi]

How are you guys?

[Alex Hormozi]

Oh, we got a group call. We got the co founder in here. Is that right?

[Leila Hormozi]

The co founder is here.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, you got Sean and this is Alex. Can you give us, give us your names and your business name and then give us a one minute description. What do you guys do and how is it going revenue wise?

[Flo]

I'm Jordan Egbert. Justin Frober, my co founder is also on the call.

[Leila Hormozi]

Our business is Elite Travel Hackers and.

[Flo]

We help business owners take their families on 30 to $50,000 luxury vacations for.

[Leila Hormozi]

Little to no money out of pocket using credit card points. And we do that in two ways.

[Flo]

The first thing is we help them.

[Leila Hormozi]

Optimize and maximize the number of points.

[Flo]

They'Re earning per year. So most people will earn one point.

[Leila Hormozi]

Per dollar on their credit card spend. We're typically able to get at least a 3, 4x on those points earned.

[Alex Hormozi]

So you help them get more points and then you help them spend it well.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, and then we help you spend it well.

[Flo]

First class flights, five star hotels, luxury travel, Wonderful. Little to no money out of pocket.

[Alex Hormozi]

So Jordan, is the business working right now or is it broken right now?

[Leila Hormozi]

What are we working with? Yeah, what's revenue? What's. Yeah. Yep, business is working. You're doing about 40k a month right now. We do have some hurdles that we've come into and I'll let just to kind of go through those.

[Alex Hormozi]

Oh, he's, he's the guy who deals with the problems.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay. I'm gonna guess that you're demand constrained. That's gonna be my guess. I could be wrong, but go for it.

[Flo]

Yeah. So last month we actually had a really big bump. We scaled the 85k.

[Leila Hormozi]

Awesome.

[Flo]

And spent a lot of time refining systems, processes, automations, getting the next round of staff hired so that we can make the next big push on leads. Right now the majority of our business comes from referrals actually. And then 20% of our business comes from like organic traffic and we only have a 23% close rate there. So there's a massive gap between the referring organic close rates.

[Alex Hormozi]

Are you saying 80% of the businesses referral or. You said that that was the close rate.

[Flo]

No, sorry, 69% of the business is referrals. Okay. 98% close rate on referrals.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, everybody closes and then the rest of the business is through organic. Do you just mean web traffic from Google search or do you mean content based or you know, a mix of everything?

[Flo]

Content based.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, is your question like. Try to state the question as crisply as you can. So what's the question you guys have?

[Flo]

How do we build trust faster and increase close rates from cold traffic? Is there a tweak in our offer messaging?

[Leila Hormozi]

All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna rock your in a couple seconds. So just tell me, so what's the price point right now?

[Flo]

3K to 15K.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so it's, it scales depending on their, whatever.

[Flo]

Number of trips they're taking.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Flo]

And how much they're spending out of pocket.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, got it heard. And so right now I'm assuming that you have the same sales process for referrals as you do for people from content. Yeah, that's the issue. So every, every traffic source has to get treated differently because they have a. Basically, if you think about a customer on a continuum, there's a certain amount of information that has to get consumed in order to make a decision. And so what you need is a microwave. You need something that's going to heat them up really quickly. And so right now walk me through the click to close. So if someone sees some post or some reel, they then what DM you or they go to your link or they come in, they get a many chat, like what do they do? Click dm.

[Flo]

Dm.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so they dm. You got it. So after they dm there's a setter in the dms, right?

[Flo]

Correct.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay, so DM setter. And then what happens after that.

[Flo]

Into sales calendar.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay. Okay, got it. And that's it, that's what happens. Is anything else that like they consume between set and close.

[Flo]

There's a 60 second warmup video saying hey, come with this. You know these data points so that we can maximize what you're doing.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, so you're missing a vsl, that's all.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, instead of a commercial break, I'm going to tell you a quick little Story. So a few years ago, I got really into crypto. Bitcoin, Ethereum. I was all about it and I wanted to be at the center of the action. I didn't want just want to buy the coins. I actually wanted to be, you know, on the edge. I wanted to be a part of the community that was actually building this thing. And look, I'm not a genius. I don't know how to build a blockchain. But I did realize that I could create a newsletter that would keep people up to date on what was going on in the world of crypto. That's what I had wanted. I wanted to know what's new, what's interesting, what should I pay attention to. And I had friends that had sold their newsletter. Companies like Sam had built the Hustle, Austin had built Morning Brew, and they had sold their newsletters for tens of millions of dollars. So I thought, how hard could it be? I launched a newsletter called the Milk Road. It was a daily crypto newsletter and it grew like wildfire. We grew it from zero to over quarter million subscribers in a year, partly because the content was good, but partly because people were crazy about crypto. And that was a good time to be doing this. But the reality is that we wouldn't have been able to do that and build that business that we ended up selling a year later for millions of dollars had we not had Beehive. Beehive was the reason we could do it in a year. Because if we didn't have that, we would have had to build all sorts of custom stuff or pay expensive consultants, do things or use five different tools and try to stitch them together. Beehive just did it all for us. It is the best way to start and grow a newsletter and email newsletters. This little secret of the business world. Because they're free to send, they're free to grow and you can build this incredible relationship between you and the readers. So check it out. Beehive is actually offering 30% off your first three months if you use the code MFM30. So go to beehive.com and then use the code MFM30 to get the deal today. There's a link in the description.

[Leila Hormozi]

So two things. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to write a seven minute vsl all right? And very simple. You'll probably it. It follows the same concept as a YouTube video. So you'll have a promise, you'll have a pain that they're going to help them avoid. You're going to give them a plan of how it's all going to work and then you're going to have proof that you can help them do that. And that's going to be in the first 60 seconds. And then you're going to have basically belief one, belief number two and belief number three. So basically the, the three biggest objections that people bring up typically on, on sales calls, you're going to break Those down as FAQs during the thing and then, and then you'll put your 60 second. This is how you prep for the call, right? That's what you do. Now you're going to script that whole thing out and then I also want you to take that and put it into a PDF and then you can send it. Because some people, especially the more ballers, are bigger readers than they are watchers. And so you could say, hey, here's two ways to consume it. Just watch it before the call and then when you do that close call, the first question you ask after you say hey, how's it going today? Then which you don't open a call that way, but as you know, whatever, then you say, hey, did you, did you get a chance to watch the video? Which you should have already done. Like the closer should double check that prior to the call and if for some reason they have not done it, you say, hey, no worries, I'm going to go grab a cup of coffee, you can go play it and I'll come back in seven minutes and then we can talk about it that way I'm not just blabbing a whole bunch of stuff because that we can see the visuals and you can see everything as tight as human possible. So that's use of your time. That's literally it. Now the second thing that I want to do though is I want to kind of shift your belief a little bit because you said we're only closing 23%. 23% isn't dog shit. Like I would say that you're going to like, if you just do this, you're probably bumped to like mid-30s. But that's, that's just not, it's not, it's not weird. That's just like a normal close rate and referrals are amazing. That's why everybody loved to have referrals. But like, if you, if you, like, if you really want to have your get your mind blown, start running ads, it's going to be way worse than the constant leads. So you want to treat warm like cold and you treat cold like cold by giving them more Information prior to the close. That's like if you only to do one thing, that's all you got to do. And you have an increase in close rate. That being said, that's not going to take you to 5 million a year. That's just going to give you a maybe a 50% lift on whatever you're currently doing. And so once you do that, you still have demand issues, which means that you still need to have a reliable, like, basically like, how can we make more and better content? Which is the larger and more important question. But do that first.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, solve that one problem at a time. And at the end of the day you want to have your growth equation. I think that's what he's talking about, which is today. I forgot what you said. You're converting 29% or something like that. It's like actually a pretty decent number if that, if that number was 40, what happens to our business? Right? Because you don't want to put a transformational amount of effort into something that doesn't have a transformational result on the other side of it. And you can just napkin math and save yourself a lot of pain if that's what the situation be. It might be that you can actually just double the number of referrals you're getting by doing something simple. Maybe today you're just getting them and you're not actually asking for them intelligently and ramping that up where you already have a 98% close rate. So just make sure you do some napkin math on what does the top of funnel look like before I go try to beat my head against the wall. Increasing this conversion. You can increase your conversion and you should, but it is worth doing some napkin math to see. If I did this, would this get me where I want to go? Or is this just one block? And I'm going to have to figure out two more things after that. But it's at least good to know that going in.

[Leila Hormozi]

Hey, Jordan, would you have a referral script you use right now?

[Flo]

I'll take that one. Yeah. So at the end of every onboarding call, we're asking them who else they know.

[Leila Hormozi]

How do you ask them?

[Flo]

Just, hey, do you think anybody else could use our services? You've seen what it's like to do our credit card strategies. Can you connect me via text or email?

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. So I would tweak that. This is just a, this is just a little golden BB for you. Compliment them first so you can reframe it. So you're like, dude, you're an Absolute pleasure to deal with. My God, I talk to a bunch of different business owners every day. If I could talk to only people like you, I would. So what other successful business owners like you do you know? So that compliments them twice before making an ask. And most people are way happier to give you a referral. Also, when you say I want other people who are successful like you, you'll also get better referrals overall.

[Flo]

Got it. Makes perfect sense.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, Little tweak, one other one that might help there. I think you said this really well with the gym business. You're like, people are in the maximum amount of pain when they show up the first time into the gym. Because for them to have shown up, that means they, they acknowledge the problem and have walked into your hands. How, how hard could it be to sell? In your case, you actually have a different situation, which is when somebody's on their way, you know, back from their vacation that you just booked for them for free and they just had an incredible life changing experience. It's probably a good moment to go ask them, how was the trip and, and then see if they, you know, what, what are they thinking for more trips as well as do they know anyone else that's looking at this? Because you're going to have, you're going to be riding a momentum, a huge wave of goodwill in that moment because you just, they're going to be on the high of their vacation. Planning a vacation is work, experiencing and enjoying the vacation. That's, that's when they're in the sort of peak state to be able to ask as well.

[Leila Hormozi]

And on the off boarding call that Sean's referencing, if I were getting really tactical with you, what I would do is when I call them up and say, hey, how's the vacation? I would ask, do you have any pictures now? They're going to be like, oh, how would you want to see? Right? And you say, hey, so what friends would you normally send these pictures to? If you want, if you three way me, then you can say, hey, I got this whole vacation for free and send it to your friend. Just three way me in and then you're rocking and rolling.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, helpful guys.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah, for sure, very.

[Alex Hormozi]

As I asked my first girlfriend, was that the best eight minutes of your life? All right, fellas, we'll see you later.

[Leila Hormozi]

See you guys.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right.

[Leila Hormozi]

Hermozi hotline.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, here we go. All right, caller number nine, you are on air. What's your name?

[Flo]

Hello. Hello, I'm Davi Alex. Sean, great to be talking with you.

[Alex Hormozi]

Davi, where are you calling in from?

[Flo]

Davi, from Brooklyn, New York.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, Davi. Single, Married? Oh, wait, no, wrong show.

[Leila Hormozi]

Here we go.

[Alex Hormozi]

Davi, tell us about what's going on. What's your business?

[Flo]

So I am a content creator, and a little bit different than probably a lot of the businesses that call in because I have a big audience and I have all the traffic, and I have absolutely no idea what to sell them.

[Leila Hormozi]

You need a money model.

[Alex Hormozi]

You have distribution and no product? Is that what you're saying?

[Flo]

I got distribution, no product.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Flo]

And I won the school games last year. And Alex, you know this guy you in May, and I was about to ask you the question I'm about to ask, and your assistant came in and said, alex, you have a wedding you.

[Leila Hormozi]

Need to watch that checks out last year.

[Flo]

And then I saw Sean's tweet yesterday, and I was like, you know what.

[Alex Hormozi]

Dude, if your life was a movie, this is. This is that, this is that. This is the moment where it comes full circle. All right, so what is the question you've been waiting a year to ask?

[Leila Hormozi]

Are you an entertainer or educator? Real quick, I would.

[Flo]

It leans towards education. I mean, I make content for college guys and young guys about how to get internships, how to get jobs, how to date, how to manage negative thoughts, how to make money. Like, it's. It's really just virtual Big Brother stuff.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Flo]

I have 200 million views, 350,000 followers. So a big army of young dudes. And I want to make a big swing in the.

[Leila Hormozi]

Per what? Per month? Per year. Per what?

[Flo]

200 million views over the last two years.

[Leila Hormozi]

Oh, what are you. What are you getting monthly?

[Flo]

5 to 10.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

And this is TikTok we're talking about.

[Flo]

TikTok and Instagram. Yeah.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. Okay, go on.

[Flo]

And so I have this big army of young dudes that I could do a paying community, I could do a mentorship, but I think that there's a bigger play either with maybe employing a lot of them or building an app and launching it across college campuses. And I just, I've been building this audience and I. I'm not sure what's the big swing that I should be making here.

[Alex Hormozi]

But before we start being know it alls and telling you what to do, what do you. Have you already tried anything?

[Flo]

I mean, I've just, I. I committed to making two or three short form videos a day for the last couple years outside of my day to day other pursuit, so I haven't tried much.

[Leila Hormozi]

What's Your day to day other pursuit.

[Flo]

My mom is a physician coach and she was doing 20 or 30k a month and now we're doing 230 last month. So basically just building high ticket sales, marketing fulfillment for burned out doctors.

[Leila Hormozi]

Got it. Well, I'll tell you a secret. Burned out doctors have more pain and more money than broke college guys by an order of magnitude.

[Flo]

I know. I don't want to keep freaking with my mom.

[Leila Hormozi]

Okay.

[Flo]

Yeah. I mean if you think there's not a big, the there's not a big prize here, then maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.

[Leila Hormozi]

The question is what do you like, what do you want to have happen if you're like, oh, I think I've so I'll tell you. I want to give a little tiny reality check which is like 5 to 10 million views a month is not bad. It's also not crazy. So like you have enough to do a business for sure. This isn't like I'm sitting on a hundred million dollar. Like you're not getting a dollar review. I just want to like put that, put some perspective there. Also, your TikTok views are not worth nearly close to what your Instagram views are. It's probably a factor of 10 to 20x difference in terms of the value per view. Especially if it's a little bit more meme, a little bit more humor, any like that. It's just like you can just, you could just drop it to through the floor like education versus entertainment. The revenue per, per, per thousand views is like, it's huge difference. Okay. I just want to just level set there. So fundamentally, if you've got these guys and they want what careers, they want jobs.

[Flo]

Well it, it's not like I'm like Mr. Internship. I'm not saying that I'm the best content career ever, but they look to me for input on all this life stuff, like whether it's how to land their first date, how to get an internship, how to whatever. And I get a bunch of DMs that are like, dude, you spoke the thoughts that were in my brain. You like, you know me so well and I think I've built up enough trust with them that if I wanted them to like quit a job or come work for me or do something. So that's why I'm thinking maybe I could build something.

[Leila Hormozi]

Yeah. So I'll, I'll, I'll give you just a little bit of a continuum that exists for you. Right. And this is super common for people who are content creators and it all the, the, the continuum exists on, on a risk continuum. And so on one side all the way to the end, you have start a business that you're going to do everything for. All right? That's like, that's all the way. On the other side, it takes the most skill, but you have the most risk. All right? On the opposite end, you have. I'm going to be affiliate of something, which is, I'm just going to promote someone else's stuff and I'm going to get a percentage, right? That's the, that's the other extreme. Now, next to that, you've got sponsorship. So if I'm really good at that, people start paying me ahead of time. And that's 100% gross margin. And it scales as I scale my, my content, which is not necessarily a bad thing. In the middle, you've got partnerships, which is like, okay, I'm going to be the exclusive guy who promotes this specific thing and I'm going to get some shares or get some royalties or whatever it is that I can negotiate in that deal and I'll just let somebody else run the business while I just continue to promote. Next to that, you've got white labels, all right? So it's like, okay, I don't want to, I don't want to actually run the business, but I do want to have my own brand and I want to have all the equity. And then the very last one, which is what I started with, which is like, you own it, all right? It's you, you, you source everything you manufacture if you want to do products. And so those are kind of like, those are kind of your options right now. If you wanted to get in the business now, you can de risk your current thing by a lot by trying some stuff on the left and seeing how it performs. So you can basically, you have the luxury of being able to test product market fit before doing anything. So you can easily affiliate someone else's thing, see what the demand looks like. And if it crushes, then you're like, oh, I got something here. And if it doesn't crush, then you didn't have to like do all the other shit associated with that.

[Flo]

Build a business.

[Leila Hormozi]

Right, exactly. So you have this really nice position that you're in. So number one, I would probably work my way from least risky to most risky as I basically validated whatever thing I want to sell. And then secondarily for TikTok, I'll just give you a little hack. The people who, the people I've seen who monetize best off TikTok, their, their CTA on TikTok is DM me on Instagram and then they work the DMs on Instagram for, for whatever reason, IG just converts way better to monetize than TikTok does. So they just drive, they just use TikTok as a traffic platform to send to convert on script.

[Flo]

Got it. Can you give me an example of some of the things that you would try affiliating for?

[Leila Hormozi]

Well, so you, you, you said a lot of stuff. You're like, you have like dating stuff. You have like, you know, which probably gets into like looks maxing and all that stuff. I don't even know. Then you've got like I want to get a job stuff. Then you've got like biz op stuff which I'm not like the biggest fan of, but like you could, you know, whatever. So like you have a lot of different pieces there. And then obviously there's just like services that you can charge for them. But the thing that I really hate about this particular customer is that they're broke. And so the easiest, I mean I, I don't think the idea that you had on starting a school community is a terrible idea because you can, you can have a very large community, you can continue to serve them and you can have a low ticket price point that'll kind of like you can, you can use that as an initial launch pad, build the community and then be like, basically say like tell me what you guys want and I'll do that and then you can monetize in the meantime. Does that make sense?

[Flo]

Yes. Got it.

[Leila Hormozi]

So that's a, that's an, that's like the easy super low risk. Like doesn't. If you're like, hey man, I want to make a hundred million dollars, I don't have a clear path for. From where you're at right now to get there besides just like starting as though you didn't even have the brand you have.

[Flo]

Well, if you had a fleet of loyal guys that maybe you could turn into good salespeople or turn into ambassadors or if you had to launch something across college campuses, like if you had this resource and it was your only foundation to get to a hundred million.

[Alex Hormozi]

Dollars or $10 million, what would you do?

[Leila Hormozi]

If you can train a skill, which I didn't hear but that you just mentioned that sales thing, if you can train a skill exceptionally well, then you can absolutely source and place salespeople for large door to door companies. That, and a lot of college guys are Willing to just like relocate after college anyways and you know, make six figures a year or six figures in a summer if they crush it for that. And those companies are happy to pay, you know, referral fees upon success of those, of those types of guys. And if you can develop a long term rep, being very, very good at training them, like you can very easily run cohorts where you say, hey, you're going to fly out to this place, we're going to spend a week, I'm going to train you and then after that you'll graduate and then you'll go out into the world and be fruitful and multiply. You could very well charge, you know, probably $5,000 somewhere in there for people to come out, learn how to sell and then basically you'll have a bunch of connections from different people that you can use your own content to go source those relationships with. So just get like, get a vivint, get a, you know, get some of the bit, get an alarm system company, whatever and get those ones to just say, hey, will you take, take people from me? And then you can also make money on both sides there that like the best thing that you can do for those guys is use them as the product.

[Alex Hormozi]

I got a question for you, soul searching question. Are you trying to be a content creator who makes money or you're trying to be an entrepreneur who uses content?

[Leila Hormozi]

Great question.

[Flo]

Wow, that's a great question.

[Alex Hormozi]

Gut instinct. You can change your mind later, but just gut instinct. When I said that, which one did your heart go into?

[Leila Hormozi]

You have to fully commit to this for life.

[Flo]

I want to be an entrepreneur.

[Alex Hormozi]

You want to be an entrepreneur, Great. So I think the constraint of what business can I start using this TikTok audience for, this customer is actually not serving you at all. You should just be thinking, what business do I want to be in where I see an opportunity and I feel passionate about solving it and I'm going to flex my content muscles probably as one of my growth levers to do that. And this, all this did was, this was the gym where I was working out and building that muscle. But I didn't build it to use it in the gym. I built it to use it in the real world somewhere else. And so I think that sometimes you have to pick the constraint properly. The constraint of using it in this, using it, using your current TikTok audience is not the right one. The other thing I would do is I would try to get real. So not only is a certain number of views different per platform, but Just as a simple test, right? If you went to a college campus, if you just put on TikTok and put on Instagram, hey, I'm going to be at Penn State if you want to come hang out. I'm going to be at this place from this hour to this hour. How many people do you think would show up at Penn state?

[Flo]

Probably between 10 and 110.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay. That's a pretty big spread. I think you should go try it. I would be surprised if the number was 100. I'd be shocked if it was 100. I'd be surprised if it was even 10. And the reason I say that is because the way that the nature of TikTok and the nature of short form content is that they're not loyal to you, they're loyal to the feed and you might show up from time to time. And so the reason to do that is to basically wash away your tie and your connection, your. Your invisible sunk cost to. But I've already built this audience because actually what you're. What you built was the muscle of short form content. You probably haven't built an army of people who like, listen and trust you. Like, you will get more views. Let's say on this, on your TikTok that I will get on my podcast, but if I tweet something out that I'm going somewhere for my podcast, I'll get people there because I spend hundreds of hours in their ears. It's a different level of connection. And so I say all this to just say, if you really want to be an entrepreneur, break out of that constraint of how do I sell these college dudes who I've been entertaining with random TikToks about random shit and what's the best business I can build in that tiny, tiny box to be like, just get out of the box and then build the best business you can. And I bet you'd kick ass that way because you seem like you're somebody who's pretty high agency and pretty kick ass, but don't constrain it, don't tie one hand behind your back.

[Leila Hormozi]

And Davey, I'll soften what Sean said, which is normally not my role, but what you can use the brand for. Let's say you don't sell to this audience and you don't sell them as the product either. Let's say you just say, like, I did this thing and I learned this skill. You can still use it to recruit for whatever business you want. And that is actually still a massive W. So you can just skim up. You say you've got these guys who are super low and want to work. It's like great work for me. Yep. Cool.

[Flo]

Yeah. Appreciate it.

[Leila Hormozi]

All right. Awesome, brother. Appreciate you. Thanks for calling in.

[Flo]

Appreciate it, guys. Thanks.

[Leila Hormozi]

All right, See you.

[Alex Hormozi]

Awesome.

[Leila Hormozi]

There we go.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, that's a wrap on the Hormozi hotline.

[Leila Hormozi]

I feel like I can rule the world?

[Flo]

I know I could be what I want to? I put my all in it like.

[Leila Hormozi]

My days off on a road let's travel Never looking, my friends. If you like mfm, then you're gonna.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like the following podcast. It's called Billion Dollar Moves. And of course, it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the number one audio destination for business professionals. Billion Dollar Moves. It's hosted by Sarah Chen Spelling. Sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist. And with Billion Dollar Moves, she wants to look at unicorn founders and funders. And she looks for what she calls the unexpected leader.

[Leila Hormozi]

Many of them were underestimated long before.

[Alex Hormozi]

They became huge and successful and iconic. She does it with unfiltered conversations about success, failure, fear, courage, and all that great stuff.

[Leila Hormozi]

So, again, if you like my first.

[Alex Hormozi]

Million, check out Billion Dollar Moves. It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network.

[Leila Hormozi]

Again, Billion Dollar Moves.