The Greatest Mind Hacks in Marketing History (Craig Clemens Interview)

Summary

Podcast Summary: My First Million Episode - "The Greatest Mind Hacks in Marketing History (Craig Clemens Interview)"

Introduction

In this compelling episode of My First Million, hosted by Sam Parr and Shaan Puri from HubSpot Media, the duo welcomes marketing virtuoso Craig Clemens. Craig, the mastermind behind the e-commerce powerhouse Golden Hippo, shares his profound insights into the three greatest lines in marketing history. With a staggering track record of over a billion dollars in annual sales, Craig delves deep into the strategies that have propelled businesses from obscurity to phenomenal success.

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Section 1: Craig Clemens' Marketing Mastery

Craig Clemens opens the conversation by introducing himself and his venture, Golden Hippo, an e-commerce enterprise that has achieved over a billion dollars in sales annually. Sam and Shaan express their admiration for Craig's marketing acumen, highlighting how his techniques have consistently elevated their own business strategies.

Notable Quote:

• Craig Clemens ([00:00]): "In this podcast, he talks about the three greatest lines in marketing history. He breaks down why they work."

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Section 2: The Greatest Lines in Marketing History

Craig reveals that the commonly cited "greatest lines" in marketing differ from his own selections, piquing the hosts' curiosity. He begins by discussing his favorite headline crafted by legendary copywriter Gary Halbert for Tova Borgnine’s perfume launch.

The Tova Borgnine Perfume Campaign ([01:31] - [06:24]): Craig narrates the innovative approach Gary Halbert took to market Tova Borgnine’s perfume, which culminated in a headline that read:

Headline: "This Wife of a Famous Movie Star Swears Under Oath Her New Perfume Does Not Contain an Illegal Sexual Stimulant."
Subhead:
"She’s so confident, she’s giving away 10,000 sample bottles on this day at this time at the Century Plaza Hotel."

This bold strategy leveraged social proof, curiosity, and risk-free offers to generate massive interest and sales.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([06:20]): "Social proof. Not using her name."
• Craig Clemens ([07:09]): "Curiosity and social proof."

Key Elements Identified:

1. Social Proof: Mentioning a famous movie star’s wife to establish credibility without revealing her name.
2. Curiosity: Provoking questions about what’s in the perfume.
3. Risk-Free Offer: Offering 10,000 free samples to eliminate purchase hesitation.

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Section 3: Effective Marketing Techniques and Embeds

Craig elaborates on additional powerful marketing lines and strategies, including the ubiquitous end-of-Viagra-ad disclaimer and evolution in infomercial call-to-actions.

Viagra’s End Disclaimer ([09:58] - [12:12]): Craig discusses how statements like, "If you get an erection lasting longer than four hours, call a physician immediately," serve as subtle marketing embeds that suggest product efficacy indirectly.

Infomercial Innovations ([12:16] - [15:24]): Highlighting how the phrase, "Please call now. If you get a busy signal, please call again," created a sense of urgency and high demand, making consumers feel part of an exclusive event.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([15:01]): "Embedded marketing. That's a book, man."
• Craig Clemens ([15:06]): "We're an event. We call it a hoop group now."

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Section 4: Case Studies and Practical Applications

Craig shares practical examples of how these marketing principles can be adapted to various businesses, such as his own experience with product launches that emphasize scarcity and over-promise to drive sales.

Product Launch Strategy ([14:35] - [15:23]): By preemptively apologizing for potential supply shortages, Craig created anticipation and drove higher-than-expected sales, demonstrating the effectiveness of scarcity and embedded messaging.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([14:35]): "Instead of saying, like, come get it."
• Craig Clemens ([14:54]): "Embedded marketing. That's a book, man."

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Section 5: Joseph Duveen – The Art Dealer Extraordinaire

The conversation shifts to historic marketing genius Joseph Duveen, an art dealer renowned for revolutionizing the American art market. Craig details Duveen’s relentless sales tactics and psychological strategies that transformed art buying into a high-status pursuit among America’s elite.

Joseph Duveen’s Strategies ([32:28] - [40:10]):

• Creating Exclusivity: Duveen meticulously curated his client base, ensuring only the wealthy and influential could access premier artworks.
• Psychological Selling: Utilizing tactics like making clients wait, creating a sense of competition, and embedding value propositions (e.g., "overpaying for the priceless").
• Relationship Building: Forging personal connections with industrial titans like Rockefeller and Mellon to secure high-value sales.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([39:08]): "He propagates that overpaying for the priceless is the best financial move you can make."
• Craig Clemens ([40:10]): "What's the intent of your travels to London?"

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Section 6: Overcoming Rejection in Sales

Craig shares personal anecdotes and strategies for dealing with rejection, emphasizing its role in refining sales techniques and maintaining motivation.

Handling Rejection ([44:03] - [46:42]):

• Psychological Reframing: Viewing each "no" as a step closer to a "yes" by assigning value to rejections.
• Persistence: Highlighting experiences from door-to-door sales and missionary work to illustrate resilience.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([45:28]): "A no is worth 50 bucks for me every time I collect a no."
• Craig Clemens ([46:41]): "It's a numbers game."

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Section 7: Crafting Compelling Ads

The discussion moves to actionable advice on writing effective advertisements, with Craig outlining a comprehensive formula for creating high-ROI ads.

Five P’s of Marketing ([29:00] - [31:11]):

1. Problem: Identify the customer’s pain point.
2. Promise: Offer a compelling benefit.
3. Proof: Provide undeniable evidence.
4. Proposition: Present a clear offer.
5. Product: Add a unique secret or bonus.

Craig elaborates on layering these elements to build persuasive and successful ad campaigns, likening the process to creating irresistible offers similar to the Cracker Jack secret.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([31:08]): "He propagates that overpaying for the priceless is the best financial move you can make."
• Craig Clemens ([31:11]): "The Cracker Jack secret is the bonus 20 points."

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Section 8: Trends and Category Creation

Craig and the hosts explore the importance of identifying and riding emerging trends versus creating unique product categories, emphasizing the need for differentiation in crowded markets.

Trend Riding vs. Category Creation ([48:19] - [49:58]): Craig discusses how some brands successfully innovate within existing trends (e.g., mushroom supplements) while others fail by commoditizing without adding unique value. He stresses the importance of understanding and leveraging unique selling propositions to stand out.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([49:58]): "Probiotics have become commoditized."
• Craig Clemens ([48:33]): "You have to get things that are unique."

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Section 9: Closing Thoughts and Future Endeavors

As the conversation winds down, Craig and the hosts touch on the potential for collaborative projects, such as writing a book on embedded marketing strategies. They encourage listeners to engage and provide feedback for future content.

Future Projects and Engagement ([50:08] - End): Craig expresses enthusiasm for further collaborations and invites the audience to participate in shaping upcoming initiatives, highlighting the continuous pursuit of marketing excellence.

Notable Quotes:

• Craig Clemens ([15:07]): "Let us know below if you want to see this book."
• Craig Clemens ([50:00]): "Amazing as always."

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Conclusion

This episode of My First Million offers a deep dive into the intricate world of marketing through the lens of Craig Clemens. By dissecting historical marketing masterpieces and sharing firsthand experiences, Craig provides invaluable lessons for entrepreneurs and marketers alike. From leveraging social proof and curiosity to mastering the art of persistence and crafting compelling ads, listeners are equipped with strategies to elevate their business ventures to monumental heights.

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Key Takeaways:

• Embedded Marketing: Subtle yet powerful messaging can significantly influence consumer behavior.
• Social Proof and Curiosity: Essential elements for building credibility and intrigue in marketing campaigns.
• Persistence: Overcoming rejection is pivotal in sales success.
• Unique Selling Propositions: Differentiation is crucial in avoiding market commoditization.
• Historical Insights: Learning from past marketing geniuses like Joseph Duveen can inspire modern strategies.

Final Notable Quote:

• Craig Clemens ([46:56]): "You have to be studying ads."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing listeners with actionable insights and a comprehensive understanding of Craig Clemens' marketing philosophy.

Transcript

[Sean]

All right, you're about to hear a.

[Craig Clemons]

Podcast with a guy who does over a billion dollars a year in sales, and yet 99.9% of you have never heard of him. It's my friend Craig. He is the smartest marketing mind I know, period. And in this podcast, he talks about the three greatest lines in marketing history. And he breaks down why they work. He breaks down the ads that he used in his business and how he took one business from 0 to 127 million in sales in year one. Enjoy this episode with Frank Clemons.

[Unknown]

I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I. I put my all in it. Like, no days off on the road, let's travel, never looking back.

[Craig Clemons]

Craig, what's going on, man? We. We were just having a conversation out there, and you gave me this teaser. That's unbelievable. You were like, well, you know, the three greatest lines in. In the history of marketing. And I had to put the finger up to your lips like, we gotta record this. And so we came in here. Emergency podcast. Before you tell me the lines, I'll tell people who you are. So Craig Clemons, he created, uh, he's done many things, but one of the things he created is Golden Hippo. It's a company you've never heard of, but it just crushes it. Uh, it's a E commerce company. You guys have done over a billion dollars of sales online. So whenever. A billion a year. Billion a year. That's an important correction. Every time I talk to you, the marketing part of my brain just explodes. I just get so much smarter. And so you're one of my favorite people to talk to. And because I. Every time I learn from you, I can go do something in my business right away that's going to make more money. So I always appreciate that you gave me the teaser. The three greatest lines in marketing, what are they?

[Unknown]

Okay, so the greatest line in marketing history, if you Google or ChatGPT, it is going to say a line different than what I was going to tell you.

[Craig Clemons]

Okay, what would they say?

[Unknown]

I'm going to tell you what they're going to say in a minute. Teaser. Teaser Marketing is a lot about teasers because it is a very strong line and it's worthy of discussion. But I'm going to start with my favorite headline of all time. And that was written by a copywriter named Gary Halbert. And the way it came about, he was contracted by a woman named Tova Borgnine, who was the wife of movie star Ernest Borgnine before our time. But apparently if we went to our parents and grandparents and we said Ernest Borgnine, they would be like, oh, yes, he was a Brad Pitt type of the time. So his wife wanted to come out with a perfume, and she asked Gary to figure it out for her. So Gary doesn't know the first thing about perfume, but he knows a ton about marketing. At the time, he was a legendary copywriter, had many, many successes. And so he's brainstorming on what to do as he's walking through the mall one day, and he sees a kiosk where there's, like, these little oils and things like that. Did you ever walk by that kiosk?

Of course.

[Craig Clemons]

There's always, like, a very smooth talker right there.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah. Make your own perfume, right? And so he goes up and he's like, hey, what are these creations of perfume? Do you make them yourself or whatever? And they say, oh, yes, the essential oils are put together to make your own perfume. And he says, is there one of them that outsells all the rest? And they're like, oh, yes, China Musk. China musk is the bestseller by far. He says, why doesn't someone take China musk, put it in a fancy bottle, and call it XYZ perfume? And they're like, well, that's a great idea. No one's ever done that. He says, okay, give me some China Musk. So he takes the China musk, and he walks over to the jeweler that he knows, and he says, Mr. Jeweler, I would like you to put this in a fancy glass and gold bottle that is shaped like a tea, puts it in the bottle, and then he sits on it for, like, three months, calls Tova Borg, 9. And he goes, Tova, I have spent the last three months traveling the world in search of the finest perfume. And I think finally, after sampling literally thousands, I've discovered it. I want to bring it over to your house right now and have you smell it. He brings it over. She's just in awe of how great the china musk smells. And she decides she wants to launch it. And she wants to do the launch party at her friend Candy Spelling's boutique on Roteo Drive. Candy is a wife of Aaron Spelling, the big producer, and Gary says, that is far too small. We are going to rent out the entire bottom floor of the Century Plaza Hotel. And she's hemming and hawing. She's like, how are we going to fill that with people and this and that? And he says, you know, trust me. So she Actually strokes the check, rents out the entire bottom floor of this entry, Plaza Hotel. And Gary takes out a full page ad in the LA Times. And the headline is this Wife of famous movie star swears under oath her new perfume does not contain an illegal sexual stimulant. That was the headline in big letters. And then the subhead said, and she is so confident in this, she's willing to prove it by giving away 10,000 sample bottles of on this day at this time at the Century Plaza Hotel. So they put up the ad and will it work? Who knows? And the phones at the Century Plaza Hotel just start ringing and ringing by people wanting to know about this event. And this kept going and going and they realized it was gonna be chaotic. So the fire department comes the day of and they like shut down the street and they figure out this way to get all the cars in. And thousands and thousands and thousands of people show up and crowd into the lobby of the Century Plaza Hotel with this big reveal. He has two in shape. Gentlemen with tuxedos get a briefcase, handcuff it to their wrist and walk it in through the crowd, bring it onto the stage, opens it up. And in There are the 12 Sapphires representing all 12 ingredients in Tova perfume. And Tova auctions off. Each sapphire for charity brings in a few hundred thousand dollars. The next day, the phone rang with unsolicited offers from Macy's, Robinson's, May, all department stores at the time, Barney Sachs, et cetera, et cetera. It was the best selling perfume in the world that year and went on for many, many years. I think now you'll find it like at CVS behind like, you know, photo counter or something like that, but it still, I think, exists.

[Craig Clemons]

Wow.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So look for the tea to.

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[Craig Clemons]

That's amazing. So you love that headline. If we break it down. So it was wife of famous movie star.

[Unknown]

Yes. Social proof. Right there.

[Craig Clemons]

Social proof. Not using her name.

[Unknown]

Yes. Some curiosity.

[Craig Clemons]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Which famous movie star.

[Craig Clemons]

Exactly. So curiosity and social proof. Then it was swears under oath, which is like stakes drama, right? Or how would you describe it? Is that what you would call it?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

And then new perfume does not contain sexual stimulants. Which is like kind of a. An inversion. Right? It's like that implies this shit must be amazing.

[Unknown]

Okay, so I need to come up with a name for this because my favorite part of the headline is the last part. And it's like the secret marketing embed or some shit like that. You know, it's like the hidden secret message that even the reader doesn't know they're receiving. But when you read that, you're like, wait, okay, it doesn't contain an illegal sexual stimulant. Does it contain a legal one? Like, what is in this thing? You know, And I always wanted to rip that headline and do it for like a new taco stand or something. You know, I think it's universal that you could be like, you know, new restaurant owner swears under oath his tacos do not contain an illegal addictive stimulant. You know, he's willing to give away a thousand free tacos to prove that there's nothing weird in here. And they're just that good.

[Craig Clemons]

They're just that good. Actually. That's a. That's a. That's a great ending to it too. Yeah. And then you had actually the sort of the offer or the call to action, which was giving away so many samples at this time at this place.

[Unknown]

Exactly. It's proof that this is going to work, you know, a risk free offer. You're going to get this for free.

[Craig Clemons]

Right.

[Unknown]

And if you don't like it, who cares, you know? So it's removing all the risk. It's making it really easy to go get it.

[Craig Clemons]

Have you ever done a remix of that headline? Have you?

[Unknown]

I haven't. I had a roommate who was going to open a taco stand. She ended up doing it. I came up with a name too. It was going to be in San Diego. It's going to be called Burro Borachos. So, like drunken donkeys. I think it would kill it, man. If anyone out there, if you're watching this, you want to start a taco stand together, you got to have a good recipe. But I'm in, man. I'll do all the marketing for your taco stand. And you have to name it Burrow Barrage. And I get free tacos for life. That could be amazing. But no, I haven't. But, you know, ever since I heard about this, which was very early in my marketing career, I've been obsessed with, like, marketing in Beds. And about the same time this, this came out, I think in the 90s or something like that, before I was in marketing, but about the same time I learned about this, another marketing embed hit the world. And I think this is another of the greatest lines in marketing history. And that is, Sean, I'm sure, something you can personally relate to. If you get an erection lasting longer than four hours, call a physician immediately. So we've all heard it. Yeah, we've all heard it. It's the end of every Viagra ad. And if you're a guy that's in trouble getting it up, you're thinking about this and you're like, fuck, this could actually be a four hour erection. I'll be happy with four minutes, man. You know, and it's such a great line.

[Craig Clemons]

So you think that. So I always heard that as at the end of any, you know, pharma commercial.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

Like, you may. Side effects may include nausea, vomiting. Yeah, I kind of thought it was like that. But actually, you're right. I don't think that was the mandated. The mandated side effects. I think that was an embed maybe.

[Unknown]

I mean, it could have been true. Also, it shows a way to workshop things in a way that could be a positive, like the nausea thing for something else. It could be like, you know, if you're. Oh, here's something. I literally got stem cell treatments last week, and the doctor, after he shoots me up tells me, hey, you're gonna have swelling tonight and extreme pain. And that's great. That means it's working. I was like, oh, interesting.

[Craig Clemons]

Change the meaning, you know?

[Unknown]

Yeah. And when I started swelling and I was fucking howling, man, it was like the most pain I've ever been. And actually I was literally howling. I was like, well, at least it's fucking working. You know, my knee's gonna heal. So. Yeah, there is a lot of value in being able to turn positives into negatives. Joe Sugarman was a master of this too. He used to sell a lot of devices. Do you know Joe Sugarman?

[Craig Clemons]

I've heard the name, but yeah.

[Unknown]

Blue blocker, sunglasses. So we could talk about Joe Sugarman for. For a hot minute, because he is one.

[Craig Clemons]

Is that a real name, by the way, or is that kind of his real name?

[Unknown]

And he's one of the greatest legends in marketing history. Everyone should read Sugarman and study what he did. But before he did Blue Blocker infomercial, which was one of the biggest infomercials at the time, he would do these devices and he had one of the early air purifiers. And back then, the way the technology. You think of an air purifier now, what do you think of thing?

[Craig Clemons]

A slick box in the corner of the room. Light. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

This piece of mind was in the 90s or something like that, and it had to have this crazy weird wire coil on top of it to grab all the negative shit out of the air. And it was very ugly. And his ad attacked that head on. He said, like, you know, the coil that removes the toxins. And so instead of having this ugly ass thing in your house, you're like, oh, that's that. You see that coil and you're like, that's the coil that's pulling the toxins out of the air. You know, I forget what his exact headline was on that, but it was turning these negatives into positive.

[Craig Clemons]

Okay, so are we on number two or that was number two.

[Unknown]

No, that was number two.

[Craig Clemons]

Okay.

[Unknown]

Oh, actually, okay, so maybe there's going to be 5, 4. I don't know how many we said there was going to be. Okay, shout out to another one. I just remembered, that's really big. When infomercials first aired, the call to action was, please call now. Operators are standing by. Do you remember? Yes, I've heard these infomercials. Yes. There was a woman, man, I wish I could remember her name, but it was a female copywriter that created this and it changed the entire world of infomercials and I think the entire world of selling. And she changed that line to please call now. If you get a busy signal, please call again. And if you think of the picture in your mind, you know, of operators just standing there waiting for the phone ring, no one's buying this thing. To call now. You probably get a busy signal. Please keep calling. Please keep trying. You know the offer is going to stay around for this many minutes. Please keep trying to call. It just gives a. The image of the phones flying in the room and everyone's trying to place their orders. And it's like high demand. And you know, it gets you excited and you, when you get through and you hear that person answer, you're relieved. You're like, oh, I got through.

[Craig Clemons]

Right.

[Unknown]

I'm going to get the special offer. Is a special offer still available? Yes, it is still available.

[Craig Clemons]

Right, right.

[Unknown]

It's like that feeling of relief. So that was a big line. I'll give a shout out to that.

[Craig Clemons]

We did a similar one where for my company, we, let's say on a normal day, let's Say when we launch a product, it would be awesome if, let's say, 800 people bought the thing, like right when it launches, like the kind of the first ten minutes or so. And so I'm like, trying to think about how to drum up excitement or whatever. And so part of the team, you know, first instinct is like, do we discount. No, no, we're not going to discount that. That's going to have the opposite effect. Probably. Do we free gift with purchase or some kind of limited time, like, bonus for, like the first people through the door? Okay. I think we're on the right track. And we did a, A similar thing where we were like I did. The founder sent a personal note. It was like an unstyled email, and it was basically apologies in advance. We expect this to, to go off, you know, to, to sell so quickly. I know that many of you are going to be upset. And so as a, you know, as, As a, as a make good, you know, I give you my word that for the next one, we're going to have more, but for this one, it's just going to be.

[Unknown]

It's.

[Craig Clemons]

I know. It's going to be chaos and scarcity. I'm already worried about it. Yes. And, and immediately we had our biggest day. Like, you know, 800 would have been a great day. And then all of a sudden, it was like 2800. Just by apologizing in advance because we embedded the. Instead of saying, like, come get it.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

We were like, we're so sorry. It's.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

You're probably not going to get it.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

And that just does. That reversal really worked.

[Unknown]

Embedded marketing. That's a book, man. It's a book waiting to be written.

[Craig Clemons]

We've, like, we've like, brainstormed three books now in the last 18 months that, like, somebody should write. We want to write these.

[Unknown]

All right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Clemons]

What should be happening?

[Unknown]

Yeah. And actually, you and I have been casually talking about writing a book.

[Craig Clemons]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And maybe we need some people out there to pressure us, to pressure us and motivate us.

[Craig Clemons]

We will read the YouTube comments one day.

[Unknown]

We should. Yeah, we should do this. So let us. Let us know below if you want to see this book.

[Craig Clemons]

All right.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Craig Clemons]

Number three.

[Unknown]

Number three. Four. I can't remember which one. Which one? They're eating the dogs. They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people who live there. I have that song in my head now.

[Craig Clemons]

They're eating the dog. Springfield, please don't eat my dog.

[Unknown]

Okay. This line was said to have lost Trump the debate and possibly the election. And what happened over the following week, in my opinion, won him the debate and possibly the election because that line of the 20,000 immigrants that had been legally migrated to Springfield, Illinois, town of. Was it Springfield, Ohio?

[Craig Clemons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Springfield, Ohio, town of 58,000 was torn apart by the fact checkers, torn apart by every news station in the world. These 20,000 legal migrants in this town of 60,000 are not eating dogs. They are not eating cats. That is complete BS. Let me say it again. These 20,000 migrants that were moved into this little town of 60,000 people that probably didn't vote to have them moved in, probably didn't know they were coming, and maybe some of them wanted them, maybe some of them didn't. They're not eating dogs, they're not eating cats. But what does it say to the entire world? Yes, large amounts of immigration migration, whether it's legal or illegal, is happening in small towns and places like Springfield, Ohio. I had never known this was happening. And some people want that and some people don't. And Trump's base and a lot of moderates don't want the small town that they live in or their parents live in or, you know, they grew up in, to have such a huge change in population, in demographics, in, you know, the style of how businesses are run, et cetera. And it spread that message worldwide that, wow, there really is a lot of immigration happening. And, yeah, some people thought it was great and some people didn't, but. But it got that message out. Because before that, you hear about, you know, oh, there's, you know, the number was always different. Right. There's 8 million people that came in under Biden. There's 20 million people that came in under Biden. And this is a big number. Can you visualize 8 million people? I can't.

[Craig Clemons]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But I can visualize 20,000. I've been to a football game. It's 20,000 in the stadium, and I can visualize 58,000. And I can put the simple math together. That's one third, you know, of the population. And that is a change. And so it paints a picture.

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[Craig Clemons]

Did you read Scott Adams when he was running the first time? Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, he was one of the first people back in 2016 to when Trump first came out. And if you remember, he did the.

[Unknown]

First speech, I didn't follow much.

[Craig Clemons]

He was like, they're bringing their rapists, they're bringing their killers across the border. And it was like, whoa, whoa. That was like. I mean, this first exposure to, like, yes. It's like I saw this tick tock the other day of like an African tribe drinking a Fanta for the first time. And they're like, you know, they don't even know how to get to it. They're like biting the lid off and then they drink a Fanta and they're like, oh, my. Like, what is this? Yes, that was Trump. That was the reaction. Trump the first time. And Scott Adams came out and he was like, oh, not only is this not a joke, I think he's gonna win. And he goes, I've been trained, basically. Like, he's like a hypnotist. He's like, I have looked at how you communicate with people, not sort of overtly, but like the subtext of what's being said and how effective that is at planting messages. And he called them linguistic kill shots. He goes, trump has these linguistic kill shots where he just labels something or he brings their attention to it in an extreme way. So, like, with the eating the dogs or the ca. Like, instead of arguing about the migration, you're arguing now, are the migrants eating dogs and cats? Which forced you to first accept the migrant point. But if he never said that, you have to debate the migrant point. And so. And he was talking about, like, when he. Jeb Bush was the favorite at the time because it's the Bush dynasty, the father, the brother. Now it's going to be Jeb. And he just called him low energy Jeb and he labeled him that. And then no matter what Jeb did, if. If Jeb was just being Jeb and he is kind of low energy looking, if he suddenly got vivacious, Trump would be like, good job, Jeb. You're. You're making like you're doing it. And he. And so Jeb couldn't win. He tied him up, and neither path was, like, viable, and he. And he just had to, like, remove this sticker off him. And nobody in politics was doing that to each other. Right. Crooked Hillary. He was just coming up with these linguistic kill shots where visual words every time you saw the person, that's what you saw.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

And Scott called that out pretty early on. And whether, again, whether it's natural, that's just how he is, or it's, like, strategic, I have no idea. But I think at this point, it's pretty. It's pretty clear that that is an effective way of communicating that. He does.

[Unknown]

Yes. Yes. He's a. He's a showman. Like, with the McDonald's thing.

[Craig Clemons]

Right.

[Unknown]

When he went to work at McDonald's, a lot of people didn't know why he was going to work at McDonald's. And then they found out, oh, Kamala has a questionable history. It's in debate whether or not she worked at McDonald's, you know, and he did something else where he was interviewed at a conference, and he said, I think Kamala is black now. I thought she was Indian. Everyone's like, trump's a racist. Blah, blah, blah. And it's interesting because not when he says these things. It kind of does make him look bad in a way. It does, in a way, make him look like a schoolyard bully.

[Craig Clemons]

Right.

[Unknown]

But it's effective. It's weird. Right? Yeah.

[Craig Clemons]

He creates the frames that then you have to participate in.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And the garbage truck, he did the same thing. When Joe Biden called his supporters garbage. He went and got in a garbage truck. He's like, I'm gonna milk this moment and make sure that I dominate the news cycle. That was the really interesting thing I realized in this election is you could feel in the news cycle who was winning. And then you could track it on Polymarket. So, like, the news cycle, whoever had something positive, their odds would go up on polymarket. And then Trump did the RAL msg and he had Tony Hinchcliffe did the. The dis and the Puerto Ricans. And, like, the poly market starts going down, and, like, Kamala is owning the news cycle. And then Biden says the garbage thing, and it goes back to Trump favor and the garbage truck, and Trump's odds go up. It was wild to see these two things tracking.

[Craig Clemons]

So let's do another one of the. The greatest lines.

[Unknown]

Okay, so now we can go to the chat GPT line. Yeah.

[Craig Clemons]

What would they say?

[Unknown]

And it really is. And this is something that everyone knows about, but not a lot of people know where it came from. So you'll know the line instantly when I say this, but, you know, in the 1940s, only about 10% of brides got a diamond engagement ring. De Beers diamonds had an interesting run. They were quite popular in the early 1900s as like a flex, not as a wedding ring, but, you know, in other jewelry or on like a lapel or, you know, necklace, earrings, things like that. And then the Depression happened around the same time as diamond mining got really good. So they had an oversupply of diamonds and then they had people losing money. And then we should talk about Joseph Devine too, the greatest art dealer of all time, because he invented the American art market. So people were spending money on art and things like that, you know, and so taking more away from that luxury sector to go into another one. And it was a female copywriter, Francis Garrity, who was at an agency that De Beers hired. And the story goes is like she was frustrated and she was like, you know, I don't know, at her last, last down, her last penny or something. On one night she is working on this campaign and can't think of anything and then wakes up in the middle of the night with this line, a diamond is forever. And what is interesting is that was the tie in to engagement. Before that, the engagement ring would be like a plain band, a gold band. You know, sometimes it would be like, like an offering, like a cow or like land or things like that.

[Craig Clemons]

And an engagement is temporary anyways. Like, by definition, an engagement is like a temporary period of time.

[Unknown]

So that's true.

[Craig Clemons]

Diamonds are forever.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

Is like an exact contrast to that.

[Unknown]

Yes. And it's an embed because it then shows that if someone doesn't present a diamond, maybe they're not in it forever. Right, right. And what woman wants a half commitment?

[Craig Clemons]

Right?

[Unknown]

Ladies out there, do you want a half commitment from your man? You know, so.

[Craig Clemons]

And from what I remember reading about this, they went to Hollywood and they basically were giving directors diamonds, saying in the key moment, in the climax moment where the man professes his love, he's gotta give her a diamond ring. And they embedded it in Hollywood in movies by literally bribing the directors in order for them to show that. So then you're watching the movie, and that now influences culture. I guess that's how you do it. The big romantic gesture is to literally get down on one knee and hand her a diamond ring. That became used kind of top down influence also to do it. Right. And then scarcity. Right. Cause they limit the supply. So all the core market things, you know, influence social. Social proof that frame diamonds are forever scarcity. They kind of used all of it.

[Unknown]

Yes. And now there's this big debate going on between lab grown diamonds and mine diamonds. Have you heard of this? It's fascinating because I think they're 10, 20 of the price or something like that.

[Craig Clemons]

They're probably price. They're basically 50 to 80% cheaper. It's the exact same rock. You could look at them under a microscope. In fact, it could be argued it's more perfect.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Craig Clemons]

It's a, it's a more perfect thing. And so you can get a big rock for this. But then the smartest, the thing that I guess De Beers did was that they, they. So this is a big problem. They're like, okay, if there's lab grown diamonds that don't have these social issues with mining blood diamond type of stuff.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

And it's just as good, if not better. This is a problem. And so what they did, the genius of their business strategy was they got into the lab grown business and just flooded the market with cheap lab grown diamonds. So they lowered the price intentionally. Like crappy ones, good dime, good Labrador diamonds. But they just lowered the price so much more that then the consumer's mind, it became a perception like oh wow. Like yeah, if it was just like 20% less, something like that, it might actually be more competitive. They made it so much cheaper that they like took away the, the value, the perceived value, the prestige of the diamond doing that.

[Unknown]

I didn't know that they were like.

[Craig Clemons]

Involved in that, that process. Pretty crazy. You put me on to an incredible marketer, Gary Ben Savanga, who I had never heard of. And he has this little example, a little exercise that I loved, I want to share, which is like, I don't know if you remember this from, from learning his stuff, but he, he gives this example of kids going fishing. So it's like a lemonade stand type of example. So it's like kids are going fishing. They are, they go to the fishing area and they want to sell bait, they want to sell worms. So they go V1 is basically like basically worms for sale 99 cents or whatever, right. And so they go there, not much sales, come back home. Luckily the neighbor is a copywriter. It was like the story neighbor's a copywriter. He says, hey, you know, why don't we level this up? And he goes, you Know, first lesson of marketing, you don't sell the product, you sell the benefit. So buy these worms, catch more fish. So they go back, day two, sell a little bit more with buy. You know, these worms will help you catch more fish. Now they have a benefit. He goes, okay. They come back, they're like, hey, what else you got? How can we make even more? And then they go to the next level, where they were like. He's like, well, why do they catch more fish? And I think it's Ogilvy, who has this great quote that he was all about, like, the. The reason why marketing. And they go, ogilvy, you seem to be a big fan of this reason why marketing. And he goes, is there any other. Is there any other way to sell this besides that? That's all. You know, it's crazy if. If it. If you don't use that. So then the. The kids go out and they're like, well, why would I. Why do our worms catch more fish? Oh, because these are local worms from the local soil. And what you don't know is that fish prefer worms that are from their local soil. And it's more attractive to them. Not these imported things that you find on the shelves. We have the local ones starts selling more, right? And then they go to the next. The next level. He's just. It just shows, like, layering on these, like, master marketing techniques. I love that example.

[Unknown]

It's an end with like. Like, you know, buy two. It's like, kinds of local worms get a free bobber. Exactly.

[Craig Clemons]

It's like, there's like, an offer. So he's like, you know, juice it with an offer. And I think maybe I'm mixing up two of the stories, but, like, he did a kind of a sensational headline too, which was like, local fishermen accused of cheating because he catches the most fish. Reveals. Reveals his simple secret, right? And it's like, oh, why we gotta know? Because there's a guy who catches way more fish than everybody else. People accused him of, like, you know, using nets and other. Other methods. No, no, he's just fishing like the rest of us. But he uses the local worms, right? To the best of it. Yeah. I love Gary's persuasion formula. He's got this very, very simple thing, and it sounds like when you first read it, you're like, okay, I didn't. I didn't get anything revolutionary. Then I go look at my ads. I'm like, okay, I'm not doing any of these things. And then you start doing them, and your roas Starts going up. So he's got the five Ps and so the first one is problem. So what's the problem that the, the person has? And he says no problem, no sale. Like you can't sell someone something that they don't do. Have some Advil. I'm not hurting. Why would I want your Advil?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

So problem. Then the next one is promise. So what's the, the promised benefit that this product is going to give you proof that it works. Then there's proposition which is your offer. And then I call the last P product because he talks about the Cracker Jack secret and he talks about how in a box of Cracker Jacks they always had like a gift at the bottom. And he's like, you know, even if you give someone the Cracker Jacks and they're not hungry right now or whatever, he's like, I've never seen somebody just throw it away and not get the little gift out of the bottom. And he's like, so you want to have the Cracker Jack secret in your, in your ad. Basically that was his thing. And then you can juice them up, right? So those are the P's and then he's got the use. And if you, if you stack those together, he literally has a formula where it's like urgent problem and that's 25 points unique promise. That's another 25 points unquestionable proof. Another 25 user friendly proposition. That's the last 25. And then the cracker jack secret is the bonus 20 points. If you stack that whole thing together, you get to 120.

[Unknown]

Love it. Amazing. Amazing.

[Craig Clemons]

So good.

[Sean]

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[Craig Clemons]

Who are the other admin that you liked? Let's do that first. So you, you were telling me about an admin that I don't, I've never heard of or marketing.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I actually study non admin now because I think I've gone through all the admin. So we talked about Edward Bernays the last time I was on your show. But the guy I've been really geeking out on is actually an art dealer.

[Craig Clemons]

Okay.

[Unknown]

Edward Bernays was a PR guy. Joseph Devine is known as the greatest art dealer of all time. Duveen's run was around like 1880 or 90 I think. He died in 1935. And he came from a family that had a shop that sold like porcelain goods and tapestries in London, England. And they were pretty well established. They sold to the queen and things like that, you know, so they were the go to place. But these tapestries and ceramics would sell for like three to $5,000, which I think in that day's money is maybe like six figures or you know, something around there. And he noticed as a teenager that fine artwork at certain times was selling for like $75,000. And so his uncle and father who own the shop brought him when he was 15 years old to New York with them to do some business. And he sneaks out from them, goes to fifth Avenue and leases a little warehouse with like an upstairs and a downstairs. And he comes back and he's like, dad, Uncle, I got us a shop. And actually I should preface this by saying I don't think 15 years old then was like 15 years old now. I think 15 years old then is when you're going, you're in the real world. Yeah, yeah, you're going to get your shit started. I think was it George Washington led his first caravan of soldiers at like 18 or something. And he'd been a surveyor and a scout since like 15 years old. Duveen was a hustler from, from an early age. He books this thing in New York because he has this realization when he's there and that is that Americans, for really the first time, have tons of money. This is when Rockefeller was coming up and JP Morgan and Industrial Revolution. Europeans have tons of art. Americans have tons of money. Europeans have tons of art. So in Europe, you'd go to the Duke's house, right? And the Duke would have his family portraits up. There's no photographers. And so you'd have to have a painter catalog grandma, or grandma as a baby or whatever. So it would be on the wall and it would be like Raphael painting grandma, because Raphael was the portrait guy at the time or whatever. I don't know if it was specifically Raphael, but people like that or Gainsborough or, you know, some of the people that are now the biggest artists of human history were just, you know, flooding the walls of the Duke's house. And these dukes, like anyone else, would go busto sometimes and they'd be looking for money. So Duveen, in his first big deal, he went to this Duke and the Duke was kind of broke, and he's like, yeah, I'll figure out how to get $3 million for your entire art collection. And that at the time was like, you know, 300 billion or something. I don't know, huge. But he bought the Duke's entire art collection. And it was some of these old masters, Rembrandts and things like that. And he brings it to America and he starts shilling it. And his sales methods are just like, unbelievable.

[Craig Clemons]

What was he doing? How did he do it?

[Unknown]

So, I mean, so some of these had some prestige, but, like, the first thing he does as he gets this painting, I think it was, was Gainsborough's Little Blue Boy. It's been a year since I read the book, sure. But he acquires this and he makes this huge deal that this great institutional landmark of London is coming to the United States. And when it comes, he arranges to have all the reporters waiting on the deck. He has no airplane, so you take the cruise liner over, all the reporters are waiting there. It comes in, and now it's on American soil, and it's going to be presented at this amazing spot and builds the gravitas around this artwork. And then he has a pool that he decides is going to be the buyer pool. They don't know it yet, but he's talking to people like Henry Frick and Andrew Mellon and John Rockefeller about this thing coming. And they'd be like, you know, oh, is this going to be for sale? The crown jewel of London? For sale? Are you kidding me? No, absolutely not. At any price. But if you want to make an offer, I could bring it to someone, but it's not for sale. So he'd bring this thing. And then he sold it for like $225,000, which was record shattering. At the moment, it's in every newspaper in the world that this painting sold for this much money to this person. And through a couple of these things, he creates the American art market. And he has all of these industrial revolution titans, all the names literally. Rockefeller, Mellon, Morgan, Vanderbilt. All these people become his clients. And his sales methods are just like next level man. So there's a story of. I think it was a guy who made a fortune in California in the oil business. And he comes to Devine's in New York and he wants to buy art. And this guy's like a new money guy, and he's not really in the New York clique. He brings him to the shop and he has the guy show up at the time, he says, and Davine takes 90 minutes to show up. Leaves him waiting there for 90 minutes. Finally gets the guy, and he's like, okay, come on upstairs with me. And he walks him into this corridor and there's the five paintings there that are stunning. And he walks them past and he's like, I'm going to show you some of the things in the back. And the guy's like, wait, wait, wait. What about these paintings? He's like, sir, those paintings are reserved for Mr. Melon. Come this way. We need to get you something that will be more suitable for your collection. Tell me again what's in your collection? Oh, I have not heard of any of those artists. That's cute. Let me show you a nice starter work. He's like, well, what about the pieces? How much is Mr. Melon paying you?

[Craig Clemons]

Making him feel small.

[Unknown]

Yeah, how much is he paying you? And you'd think that he would do this as a roof. But he really didn't sell the guy the paintings for Mr. Mellon. He made him buy this starter piece and is like, I can work on one of those. And then he'd call him a few months later and be like, look, you know, I think I might be able to wrangle one of those paintings loose from. From Mr. Melon. But the price is going to be outrageous. And Duveen's saying was, when you overpay for the priceless, you're getting it cheap. That was his quote that he propagated, which is kind of like a. Diamonds are forever.

[Craig Clemons]

Yeah, exactly.

[Unknown]

And so he's got all these embeds that he does in just his everyday behavior, you know, like putting people in tears and things like that. And propagating the. That overpaying for the priceless is like the best financial move you can make, you know? And the things he does is just next level. I mean, on the sell side, it's fucking crazy. He's so relentless. He would go on cruise liners, and back then, the boat from London to New York was the big thing, and it was different levels or whatever. And your deck chair is like your baller spot, right? And so he'd go in there, and the way he met Andrew Mellon is he greased the staffer to seat him next to Mr. Melon. And then he gets there and he finds out that Mr. Melon is a recluse and doesn't like going outside and only stays in his room. And he's so mad that he greased so much to get the deck chair. But what he does is he starts kind of stalking the elevator. And he times it to get in the elevator at the same time Andrew Mellon gets in the elevator. He was like, how do you do, sir?

[Craig Clemons]

Literally, elevator pitch.

[Unknown]

What's the intent of your travels to London? And Mr. Melon's like, oh, I'm here on this business, you know, how about yourself? And he's like, no, you know, having a brunch in the Duke of Carnegie's home. Not sure what else, you know, but just drop something like that. And then, you know, where else are you going to be on your travels and things like that? And you're like, oh, you're the person who founded this. I forget what Melon did. Steal or something, you know. Would you like to join me for brunch at the Duke's house? He's like, oh, sure, I would love to meet. Because royalty was the thing, you know, And Duveen really did have these connections. So he brings Melon to brunch at the Duke's house. When you go to a duke's house, the Dukes have the art on all the walls, and it's from all these old masters. And you're like, oh, if I want to become a dynasty, like these royal families that are dynastic families, I need to do what they do, and that means having these old master paintings on my wall. So he sells Melon so well that he becomes a top client of his. And when you became a top client of Duveen's, you're no longer allowed to use your own architect as a rule. For him getting you the great pictures, you have to use his architect to design your house to have optimal viewing, to give these pictures justice. Otherwise, I'm sorry, Mr. Mellon, but this picture cannot be in your collection because it does not to be showcased in a side room or something like that. And he would have his architects design their apartments with, like, very little windows and huge wall space, but way more wall space than they would ever need. And then he ran into an issue. The people just didn't buy enough real estate to hold all the paintings. And this wasn't like crypto art where you can store it on a wall. You know, you gotta have walls to put it on. And so he started convincing them to open museums. The National Gallery in Washington is founded by Andrew Mellon at the urging of Joseph Devine. And he said, the key to your immortality is building this gallery and having your work live on beyond you in it. And we're going to build it 30,000 square feet. And so he does this. Mellon builds the National Gallery, and then Duveen's able to sell him way more art, you know, stock up all those walls, plus all of his houses and shit like that, right? Mellon passes on. And then I think it was Henry Frick. He's his next big client. He's like, you know, Mr. Frick, if you really want to achieve immortality, you could add on to the National Gallery a bigger wing than Mr. Melon made and stack it with your art. And he did. He fucking did, you know, and bought all this art from Duveen. I mean, the guy was so ruthless. Another of my favorite Duveen tricks he would do is when he'd be at Andrew Mellon's house, there was a couple other competing dealers. You know, you'd ride the horse and carriage over there, right? It's not like a car. He greased the staff to tell him if they find out that another art dealer is going to their house. So he'd find out when the competitor's going to Mr. Mellon's house, and he would show up the same day, and he'd be like, just passing through the Hamptons, you know, happened to. Oh, you know, hello, Mr. Perry. Fancy seeing you here. I was just visiting my client, and he would go and just sit there all day. And you can't, like, reschedule the meeting because that person probably traveled several days to get there. You know, he was just. Just relentless, man. And that's actually. I know you have a lot of young kids in your audience, and I did an experiment recently. I was at a Mastermind, where everyone paid 250 grand to attend. And I asked them, I said, you know, I'm just curious about this room. You guys are all established people. How many of you in your youth had some sort of sales job that required you to be relentless? Like 200 phone calls a day or knocking on doors and almost all the room raised their hand. I think it's something that really shapes on. Did you ever have a job like that?

[Craig Clemons]

I don't think I had that kind of, I've noticed the same thing but like, you know, so we, we've talked to people who are a lot of Mormons who go on missions.

[Unknown]

Oh, that's the best dude.

[Craig Clemons]

You have to. You spent two years in complete solitude, isolation, not talking to your family, selling Jesus to, you know, whoever, right? You're, you're selling religion to people who didn't ask for it necessarily. You're knocking on doors, you're facing tons of rejection. And day after day you, you carried on like that is such a formative experience. My, my uncle had told me one thing about. He used to sell textbooks door to door. Like textbooks, textbooks companies. I guess there's a couple of them in America that were really big that way. And we recently just had another person on the pod. Like we've had several people on the podcast with this one same job which is like door to door sales, whether it's textbooks or knives or whatever it was. And yeah, the hit rate on those is really high. Brian Johnson, who was going to be here at the event. I was just watching his documentary, same thing. His first job was door to door credit card processing sales.

[Unknown]

I was tell marketer of credit card processing.

[Craig Clemons]

Oh, you were too amazing. And so you, he, he rejection, rejection. Figured out, figured out how to sell, figured out how to carry on in the face of rejection. Got numb to rejection. Just started, started to see it. Like my uncle told me, he goes, you know how I, I, I go, how many did you actually sell? You're selling textbooks like in a day knock on a hundred doors. How many do you actually sell? You're walking through the hot Atlanta like neighborhoods sweating and he's like, oh, you know, like one or two or three would be like an amazing day.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And that's what I wasn't telemarketing too. It's about 200 calls. Shitty day is 15 sales is an amazing day.

[Craig Clemons]

Right. Which is just like even if you hear those numbers go, go actually do something hard where 97 times out of 100 you just get, yeah. Slammed in the face and he goes the way I Did. It was very simple. He goes, I just did the math. And I realized, actually, I know I have to knock on 100 doors to get the two sales. So actually, I don't just count the revenue from the two yeses. I just assigned a price to every no. So he's like, a no is worth 50 to 50 bucks for me every time I collect a no. All right, that was. That was a 50. I wasn't just coming up with the zero. I wasn't coming up empty every time. It was a psychological trick that allowed me to, like, see the no still as, like, progression, because I'm just getting closer to that yes that, you know, the 1 out of 100 or 2. 2 out of 100 that are going to happen. And so I've actually used that in fundraising, for example, where it's like, all right, I'm ra funds for a company. It's when investors reject your company. It's a very personal thing. And what ends up happening is people don't raise money. And then you ask them, well, how many calls did you make? How many meetings have you had? And they just have a funnel problem. It's like, you guys haven't had enough conversations because you're afraid of rejection or you're avoiding rejection, or you tasted some rejection and it scared you off. Yeah, but it's a numbers game. And, like, the way to do it is put a dollar value, even on nos.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Craig Clemons]

I like that method. I was going to ask you one last thing, which is what's the best way to get great at writing ads? If I wanted to go from, you know, okay to good or good to great, like, what do I. What do I do? I do a lot of it. I'm assuming practice is a big part of it, but is there a better way to practice?

[Unknown]

This is funny, man. You have to be studying ads. So right now we're at a.

[Craig Clemons]

We're an event.

[Unknown]

Yeah, an event we call a hoop group now. Hoop group. High level group. And I meet this guy who's got a 13 million YouTube channel, and I'm like, what's your channel? And I go to type it in. There's like five people behind me, and they type it in. They see the ad pop up and they're like, come on, Craig, you don't subscribe to YouTube, right? You can't afford the 50 bucks or whatever, you know? And like, are you fucking kidding me? An advertising guy is going to turn off the ads, right? Fight with one arm behind my back, YouTube topics to get the ads on purpose. Like I would watch the ads all day long if I could because I need to know what the lay of the land looks like.

[Craig Clemons]

One of my best friends who's a great marketer and has made, probably personally made, I don't know, $200 million. And his businesses all are just Facebook ads. But like that's like his take home that he's probably made. And he switched his gender and age on Facebook So he's a 45 year old woman. And I was like, why does it.

[Unknown]

Say I have a 40?

[Craig Clemons]

Why does it say you're a 45 year old woman? And he was like, so I could see the ads, dummy. Why would I want to see the ads of a 28 year old dude or whatever? You know, like that was. That would be terrible. I know who I need to sell to. This is the golden customer. And like, I need to. I need to have my. I need Facebook to be showing me what they're seeing.

[Unknown]

Absolutely.

[Craig Clemons]

I was like, wow, that's genius.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And then I also hang out in a lot of biohacker circles. So I find the things that people are doing at Burning man and on Venice beach and when they catch fire in these little circles, right. You can tell they're like ready to go mainstream.

[Craig Clemons]

I like it.

[Unknown]

You know, and sometimes I get on the trend and sometimes I don't. Like mushrooms was one of them. And you know, that's a massive category now, I think. You know, our mushroom supplement with Gundry mds, right. Sells okay, but it's not like a category creator.

[Craig Clemons]

Like the mushroom coffee did really well. Really well. Right. Like the mud water type.

[Unknown]

There's a few that have done it. Four Sigmatic is owned by a friend of mine. It's a great brand. I take those products myself. Yeah, there's a few mushroom brands that are. That are amazing. Yeah. Sometimes you catch it and you can, as I say, like create the wave. Sometimes you're riding the existing wave. And I think too many people start businesses trying to like ride the whitewater. You know, there's a supplement company, I won't say that say the name, but you know, they launched with an epic celebrity and then the product looks like every other product out there. And it's out of business now because they had this great celebrity who was certainly a scroll stopper, as I like to say, but they're offering a product that everyone else has too, that they could just, you know, learn about from the celebrity. And then they go on Amazon, buy a cheaper one. You know, you gotta get things that are unique. And that's why the probiotics was so great in 2014. I don't have a probiotic now that's, you know, doing big numbers like that because probiotics have become commoditized.

[Craig Clemons]

Craig, amazing as always.

[Unknown]

Thank you for doing it impromptu.

[Craig Clemons]

Follow Craig on Twitter. Craig Clement. Yeah, this was the impromptu. This is our conversation. We just moved it over here with the microphone. So thanks for doing it, man.

[Unknown]

I always love chatting with you.

[Craig Clemons]

All right, let's get back to it.

[Unknown]

All right.

[Craig Clemons]

See ya.

[Unknown]

I feel like I can rule the world I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like no days off on the road, let's travel never looking back.

[Sean]

Hey, Sean, here. A quick break to tell you an EV Williams story. He started Twitter and before that, he sold a company to Google for $100 million. And somebody asked him, they said, Ev, what's the secret, man? How do you create these huge businesses, billion dollar businesses? And he says, well, I think the answer is that you take a human desire, preferably one that's been around for thousands of years, and then you just use modern technology to take out steps. Just remove the friction that exists between people getting what they want. And that is what my partner Mercury, does. They took one of the most basic needs any entrepreneur has, managing your money and being able to do your finance or operations. And they've removed all the friction that has existed for decades. No more clunky interfaces. No more 10 tabs to get something done. No more having to drive to a bank, get out of your car just to send a wire transfer.

[Craig Clemons]

They made it fast.

[Sean]

They made it easy. You can actually just get back to running your business. You don't have to worry about the rest of it. I use it for not one, not two, but six of my companies right now. And it's used by also 200,000 other ambitious founders. So if you want to be like me, head to mercury.com, open an account in minutes. And remember, Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve bank and Trust Members. Fdic. All right, back to the episod.