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- [00:00]
Jesse Cole
You got to create attention first. If people don't know who you are, good luck trying to create something.
- [00:04]
Sam Parr
You guys have a multi million person wait list for tickets on TikTok. You have 10 times more followers than the New York Yankees.
- [00:12]
Jesse Cole
Ideas are more valuable than anything. Whatever's normal. Do the exact opposite. No one comes home and said, oh, did you hear this thing? It's so normal. You get excited about remarkable, unforgettable.
- [00:21]
Sam Parr
You're one of our Mount Rushmore type of guys because you're playing the game on extreme hard mode, and I respect you for it.
- [00:27]
Tyler
It's way harder than I thought.
- [00:28]
Jesse Cole
So we completely ran out of money. We had nothing left. And then Emily turned to me and said, we have to sell our house. So we sold our house.
- [00:33]
Tyler
Did you have conversations of wanting to quit?
- [00:35]
Jesse Cole
I mean, it was brutal. I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.
- [00:46]
What's up, guys?
- [00:47]
Sam Parr
Oh, my God, it's Jesse Cole.
- [00:50]
Tyler
What's up?
- [00:51]
Jesse Cole
How you guys doing?
- [00:53]
Sam Parr
We almost wore the same thing today.
- [00:55]
Jesse Cole
You should have. You should have. There's a lot more going around these days. I think I'm keeping them in business.
- [00:59]
Sam Parr
When did you start the yellow suit, yellow hat? What was the day before the bananas?
- [01:04]
Jesse Cole
That's the crazy thing. People didn't even realize that it was before the bananas. That's the wild thing. Oh, yeah, man.
- [01:10]
Tyler
We.
- [01:10]
Jesse Cole
We had a team and you talk about first million. We had a team in Gastonia. So I was. I was wearing this before because of PT Barn. I'm inspired by him. Not just to be the same, same, you know, regular host like everyone else.
- [01:20]
Tyler
So do you know what you're getting into at all with this?
- [01:22]
Jesse Cole
I know. I've listened to your show and I'm ready to rock. I love the one with the owner of the Jazz. That was an interesting. That was more of a sit down.
- [01:32]
Sam Parr
When I was hanging out with him, I was telling him a bunch of Savannah banana anecdotes. I was like, you got to do this. You got to do this. You got to get the grandmas on the court.
- [01:40]
Jesse Cole
He loves hearing all the other things he should do.
- [01:42]
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, that's probably what he liked. Chunk, you probably like that.
- [01:47]
Jesse Cole
No, it was very well done and very well produced as well. You guys did a great job with that.
- [01:50]
Sam Parr
Well, thanks, man. Well, we're excited to have you here because you are. You're one of our, like, entrepreneurial Mount Rushmore type of guys because you took some. You know, it's the. It's about the gap. It's about the gap of going from nothing to something. And the way how far you went with nothing to something incredible is, is pretty remarkable. Just to give people a sense, I mean, I don't know a soul in my life who wanted to go watch exhibition or minor league baseball. That was not even a thing. And yet you guys have a multi million person wait list for tickets. You guys have. I just looked this morning on TikTok, you have 10 times more followers than the New York Yankees. And so just accomplishing that kind of blows my mind. And I want you to come on here and I want you to tell your story and I want you to teach us kind of how you think, because I think what you. The way you think and how that's been applied to baseball could be applied to many other types of businesses. I think that's the real gift you're going to kind of give the entrepreneurial world.
- [02:48]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, we'll fire it up. Let's, let's jam.
- [02:50]
Sam Parr
All right, so, Sam, where should we start? Start at the start.
- [02:52]
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's spend. But we'll keep it a little bit abbreviated because you've done a lot of amazing podcasts. We've talked about it. But yeah, do set some, set the context a little bit. Like 10, 15 years ago, where were you?
- [03:03]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, well, I started as a 23 year old general manager with the team in Gastonia, North Carolina. And so it was college summer baseball, which is a low level of baseball. So that's, that's where I started with this. And yeah, there was. That team only had 200 fans coming to the games, $268 in the bank account. I couldn't pay myself for literally three months. It was December, I think I was able to take my first paycheck, which I was making $27,500. So I wasn't making a lot of money regardless, but that's, that's where I started. And so I was learning how to make college summer baseball exciting and entertaining, and I did that for years and no one knew anything, but we were just experimenting and trying new things. And that's really kind of learned the, the ideas of making baseball more fun and adding new things to the show.
- [03:45]
Sam Parr
Why even be there? Like, why weren't you an intern at JP Morgan? Or, you know, why is your first job a GM of a summer league baseball team? What was the plan?
- [03:57]
Jesse Cole
Never could have got a job at JP Morgan or any of those, for the record. So, no, I played ball. So my whole life was baseball. My dad owned a baseball facility. I was very fortunate to get a huge scholarship to Wofford College, Division 1 school down south Carolina. So my goal was to play professional baseball. So I was getting, you know, letters from the Mets and the Padres and the Pirates and the Braves. And I was like, this is going to happen. And then I tore my shoulder just like that. So everyone's like, oh, you're going to go into coaching, Jesse, your dad was a coach. You're just, that's your mindset. And I coached for one summer in the Cape Cod League and I wanted to pull my hair out every day. It was the best players, like the highest level. Like these guys were all going to be first round picks. And I was in the dugout of the best seat and I was just bored, bored out of my mind.
- [04:38]
Tyler
I used to go to the Cape Cod League games and it was. The hot dogs were great.
- [04:43]
Jesse Cole
It was just baseball. It was just baseball, but it was, it was high. It was, it was all these guys, if you look at the major league rosters, all stars, a lot of them played in the Cape Cod League. But I was bored. There's a difference between playing and watching. And so it was the first time I really, you know, as Walt Disney thinks, you know, put yourself in the customer's shoes, I put myself in the spectator's shoes and I was like, I'm bored. And so it was then I realized that I don't want to coach anymore. And I said, well, what if I got in the front office and tried to make the show and the entertainment and the experience better for fans? And that's really where it started. That's when I went to take this job as a 23 year old general manager of one of the worst teams in the country.
- [05:17]
Sam Parr
Isn't there a story of Disney going to, I don't know if it was a park or an amusement park with his daughter and he's sitting on a bench and he's kind of just like looking at this and he's like, why don't I wish this was fun for me and her and not just her. For example, isn't there some famous story like that? And that's where the origins of Disneyland came about, 100%.
- [05:33]
Jesse Cole
And I've studied Walt religiously. So yes, it was a Griffith Park. It was his two daughters. Saturday was his day with his daughters and he always took them. He had daddy day with the daughters. And so he took them to Griffith park and they're on the carousel and he's sitting there. And he goes, I wish there was a place that adults and kids could have fun together. And that's where the literal mindset said, well, what if we created a place like that? And so I, in a weird way was sitting in the dugout, the best seat in the house, with some of the best players, thinking, I'm bored out of my mind. Why can't this be fun for more people? And so that's where it kind of started the journey. As a 23 year old general manager with no money in the bank account, not getting paid on, how do you make this more fun? And that's really where I fell in love with Walt Disney and P.T. barnum and started studying WWE and Circus Soleil, Saturday Night Live. I became obsessed with learning about entertainment, not necessarily learning about the baseball business. I want to learn about the entertainment business.
- [06:22]
Tyler
Like, can you tell us the transition from employee to owner?
- [06:26]
Jesse Cole
And then.
- [06:27]
Tyler
Well, yeah, first about that, it's like, what was that era?
- [06:30]
Jesse Cole
I was a general manager for two or three years, then I became the managing partner, which the owner gave me like, I think like a 5%, just like equity stake for being a part of it. And then it was 2014, so that was, geez, six, seven, eight years later that I bought it from him. So the team was worth very little, made it worth a lot more. So went into owner financing debt with him and, and bought it for him in 2014. And he gave me every opportunity. I was so fortunate that the owner, Ken Silver, just let this kid kind of run with the team and try things and experiment. But we end up having success after that first year and so made the team a lot more valuable, which is a good win for all of us.
- [07:10]
Tyler
And it was still like a real, like a, like a, like a normal baseball team like for the first two years, right?
- [07:15]
Jesse Cole
Well, oh no. Well, it was normal. I mean, I, I mean we had grandma beauty pageants our first year. I mean we had, I started, we came up with the garbage can nachos, like four orders of nachos, three cheeseburgers, three hot dogs, nacho cheese, jalapenos, donuts. We called it heart stopping ly delicious. I tried to get a cardiologist to sponsor it, but no one was interested. So like we started doing crazy. We did a dig to China night where we literally had hundreds of people go on the field and digest in, in the infield dirt to get a trip to China. But when the woman won, she realized it was just a one way flight to China. No flight back and no accommodations so, so we had a lot of fun. I mean, we fired our mascot for bear growth hormone because HGH was big. So we did bgh. We offered George Bush, because he just finished his term as president, an internship with us with a $1,000 stipend. We, we did like, we're going to get him a host family. We're going to figure it out. He turned it down. But like, we, we, we just came up with all crazy ideas. We were just trying to get attention. I was link. I was using the P.T. barnum, you know, book of how do you create attention? And so we were trying everything. And yeah, the players, we got the players to dance that first year. They weren't great dancers, and every player turned me down, except for four, but four dancers did the jump on it dance and they became the most popular players. So we, we were dabbling in experimenting in no man's land, where literally no one knew who we were outside of Charlotte.
- [08:35]
Sam Parr
You're not even the Savannah Bananas yet.
- [08:37]
Jesse Cole
You're still the Gastonia Grizzly.
- [08:39]
Sam Parr
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The ones nobody heard about. I think that's really important. Sort of like the toiling and obscurity, trying things, iterating. Now, let me ask you, those ideas that you just said, Every one of those ideas. I'm like, oh, my God, what a genius idea. That's fantastic. And I could totally. It makes me laugh. I can totally see them. I could see the press release, I could see the news clip. I could see the TikTok clip. Now, to have 10 great ideas, you probably had, what, a thousand, 10,000 bad ideas? Something like that. Tell me about your practice of generating ideas and what was your kind of system of creativity?
- [09:10]
Jesse Cole
Well, when we first started, you know, I learned from. So Bill Veck was the famous owner of the St. Louis Browns, the White Sox, that he was brilliant in what they did. I mean, obviously, so many things. Grandstand managers night. He literally let his fans in a major league game dictate whether they were going to bunt, steal or hit and run. He put his coach in the grandstand and it was unbelievable. Um, obviously he came with Eddie Guidell, the midget hitter, and he did so many things. He gave away live lobsters to fans during games. I mean, he was brilliant. His book Versus and Rec made a huge impact on me. But I went to his, his son's conference. Mike Feck, another unbelievable pioneer. The St. Paul Saints, Charleston Riverdogs, had a lot of minor league teams. I went to his conference when I was 23 and he said, my dad Always said, bill, he said, if there's a fire, you got to get the most important thing in the house. And it's our idea box. And so the idea box, he said, ideas are more valuable than anything. And so he actually gave us a wooden box. I still have it today. And we started coming up with ideas and that as a 23 year old, started coming with lots. I mean, they were all, a lot of them. Ridiculous. Some work, some didn't. Salute to Underwear night failed. Flatulence Fun night failed. You know, I mean, the hairiest man in Gaston County. That was gross. So, I mean, we did a lot of things that just didn't work. But I started learning about ideas and, you know, the big premise that I kind of came up with is whatever's normal. Do the exact opposite. No one gets excited about normal. No one comes home and said, did you hear this thing? They just, it's so normal. Like you get excited about remarkable, unforgettable. And so it was literally eight years of doing that. And when people, I think about the title of the show, my first million, we never made $1 million in Gastonia. You know, we, we started, it was $100,000 in total revenue. The year I took over the team, it was, the expenses were 250. So we were doubling pretty consistently and getting like 200, then 300, then 400, then 500, then 600, then 700, then 800. But we never got to a million. I ran that for eight years.
- [11:01]
Tyler
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's recap. That's pretty remarkable. This is remarkable. So it took you eight years to get to a million in revenue?
- [11:07]
Jesse Cole
No, we didn't even get to a million in revenue. Okay, so after we never got to a million, it wasn't until Savannah that we actually reached a million dollars in one year.
- [11:16]
Tyler
And how old were you on the eighth year? You were like, what, like 32.
- [11:19]
Jesse Cole
So I was 23. Yeah, so, yeah, you know, eight. So when we finally got so good, Gastonia and then Savannah in 2015, so we had both teams at once. So I went to Savannah in 2015. 2016 was the first year we reached a million dollars in revenue.
- [11:32]
Sam Parr
How many times did like kind of smart, well intentioned friends and family sit you down and be like, jesse, what are you doing? What are you doing? What's going on?
- [11:40]
Jesse Cole
I was having the time of my life. I needed some help.
- [11:42]
Sam Parr
Do you need a job at the car wash? Like, what, what are you doing out there?
- [11:45]
Jesse Cole
Oh, everyone I've come across, especially family, knows I Need help in many, many different ways. But no, they saw I was having fun. Guys, think about this. We took over a team that had most nights, 50 to 100 fans. And my first year, we had nights where, you know, over a thousand fans or 1500 fans or 2000 fans. By our second year, we were selling out games. Like again, it was only 2,000, 3,000 seat stadium, but it was unbelievable. I was having the time of my life.
- [12:09]
Tyler
Were you making a profit?
- [12:10]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, we got, you know, by probably 800, 850,000 in revenue, probably cost in 600. So, like expenses. So, you know, it was a healthy profit, you know, for college summer baseball. We were killing it. Are you kidding me? It was like, heck yeah, look at what we're doing. And you know, in the late 20s in Gastonia, a little tiny. I was. I was happy. But every day I got to create new things. That's what people don't realize. I got to create things. I get to have fun and I got to see every day. I got to test those ideas in real time. Will people show up or will they not? Will they like this promotion or will they not? Will it sell tickets or not? Will they buy this birch or not? I get to test every day. And. And Henry Ford at Greenfield Village, I'll never forget. I visited. He said Henry believed in learning by doing. And I'm obsessed. I want to be the fastest learning sports organization in the world. And so the more we do, the more we learn. And so that started, you know, many years in Gastonia before we went to Savannah.
- [13:05]
Tyler
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- [13:33]
Sam Parr
You mentioned P.T. barnum and Disney and how you obsessively studied them. What were some of the early stories that inspired you or. Or things that they did that maybe me, who hasn't read about PT Barnum wouldn't know about, but that blew your mind?
- [13:49]
Jesse Cole
Well, you know, with. With P.T. barnum, it was so much about how do you create attention, you know, Showmanship. He says, without. Without promotion, something terrible happens. Nothing. And so when you. When you look at his. His books, I mean, he was just. I mean, he had viol. He had. He hired terrible performing musicians, violinists and musicians that were so bad that he put them outside his museum. And so he'd say, the only way you can get away from is you have to come inside the museum. Like, he would. Like, he would just come up with ideas and he would bring people together. He was a master of promoter. He was also a tremendous writer. And he was always writing, he was always speaking. So I kind of took his spot as, like, he was always a front person. You know, you gotta have someone that truly believes in what you do. And P.T. barnum believed in his museum. He said, hey, some of it's true, some of it's not, but you're going to come in and you're going to be entertained. And he believed in that. And he went on top of every mountaintop to yell that. So I kind of took that from him. It's like, all right, I was dressed like everyone else. I'm like, no, I'm going to get a full tuxedo. By the way, the first one was black, and it had tails. And it was 95 degrees in North Carolina summer night. And I almost melted. So I said, we're not doing that. So I found a yellow one that was brighter and fit, the color of the Grizzlies, which was also kind of yellow. That's how that started. But it was about showmanship. P.T. barn was a showmanship. How do you create attention with all your acts? And then Bill Veeck, man, he was the most fans. First owner ever. He would sit with the fans in the stands. He was an owner. He would literally set up and he would. He would talk to all the fans every single night. He would go vecking, as I made up the term. But after every game, he would go to the bars with the fans just to connect with them. You know, when he stuck over the St. Louis Browns, they say, what time the game starts? He goes, what time do you want it to start? Like, that was his mindset, was always what would be best for fans. And he did it. He did constant giveaways. He was first gonna put names on the back of jerseys. He had the exploding scoreboard with fireworks. I mean, he was just so far ahead of his time. And every other owner hated him because he was doing so much more for fans than they all were. And so you combine that with then Walt Disney's vision and it's kind of fun to do the impossible and put yourself in the guest shoes. Those three kind of just set me on a tone of like, let's try to combine these worlds and create something pretty special in baseball.
- [15:58]
Tyler
So all of that is like you dressing the way you dress and doing the thing you do now. It's inspiring because the company is. I don't know if it's real, but the headlines is that it's worth a billion dollars and you're incredibly successful and you're well loved. But for the first handful of years, did you, did you feel like, I mean, did you feel embarrassed? Were you like, I don't know if this is going to pay off. I don't know if this is going to worth it. I'm risking my reputation. I look silly right now. Did that fear come into play? Because when I hear what you're doing, I'm like, that makes sense. I should do that. And also, I'd be embarrassed 1000%.
- [16:32]
Jesse Cole
We've been criticized every step of the way. I've been embarrassed many steps of the way. You know, our first eight years and nine years in Gastonia, we did everything. It was myself, was my wife. We had one or two other team members. We put out show tonight signs out around town just to try to convince people, hey, they have a game, please go. We did the trash before the game. We did the hiring, we did the concessions, we did operations, putting signs up. We did everything. And it was exhausting. And people criticized. It's like you're a college summer team, you know, on a Wednesday night there might be 500 people there. And then when we went to Savannah, that's when the criticism and the skepticism reached an all time high.
- [17:07]
Tyler
Why then?
- [17:08]
Jesse Cole
Well, you had professional baseball for 90 years, so you have professional baseball for 90 years, and then all of a sudden there's a college summer baseball team coming in. So they just had the New York Mets affiliate the year before us, and now they wanted a brand new stadium. The city said no, they weren't going to invest because no one was coming to the games. So all the professional Savannah teams were the lowest in the league in attendance. I mean, literally some nights having 300 people in the ballpark for professional baseball. So we came in and we had, we're going to make baseball fun. We're going to do this, we're going to do this, we're going to do this. They're like, sure you are. We've heard that before, kid. And yeah, we sold two tickets in our first three Months. And I mean we were hung up on every day. I mean, my wife, she would walk in, so we had a free launch event where we literally have free food, free drinks, everything. She'd walk into little shops, stores, restaurants and be told, get out. Like literally told. We weren't selling, we were offering free. Hey, we just want you to come. We're the new team. We're here in town. We want to meet the community. I mean, it was brutal.
- [18:11]
Tyler
Well, did you have conversations of wanting to quit?
- [18:13]
Jesse Cole
You couldn't because we were now seven figures in debt. You know, we had to, we had to buy, we had to buy the team which was, we bought it through the Coastal Plain League, cause it was an expansion team. And then we also had to put money in the team. We had to do the startup. We hired people, we had nothing. So we were in debt. And we had all these, these young people right out of College, a 24 year old team president as well that we were responsible for. And so there were no options of quitting. It was just, how do we convince these people to believe in us? And what I realized is the only way to do that is we had to show them. As Steve Jobs says, no one knows what they want until you show it to them. We were talking, talking, talking. That's not good marketing. Marketing is creating experience and showing people. So we had to get to that point.
- [18:53]
Sam Parr
You seem like an incredibly optimistic guy and I love that, I love your energy. And obviously at this point there's a lot to be optimistic about. But the era that we're talking about, things were not going well. You sell two tickets in three months, you're seven figures in debt. And I'm curious, like nobody's optimistic 100% of the times. There are moments of either doubt or pain or struggle. And like, so when I say rock bottom and then they're making the movie about you, what's the movie scene where the director's like, okay, this is the rock bottom scene. It's maybe it's you and your wife or it's, you know, you at the ATM machine looking at the balance. You know, what's rock bottom when I say that?
- [19:33]
Jesse Cole
Well, so we got the phone call. It was 4:45pm, January 15, 2016. And that was when we were out of money. So we completely ran out of money. We couldn't cover payroll, we had nothing left. And so at that point I moved. I think it was like $3,000 over that. I had in my own account to cover that, the rest of the payroll and Then we emptied out our savings account, put that in to cover us for another couple weeks. And then Emily turned to me and said, we have to sell our house. So we sold our house. Now, people don't know in the timing of this is. Me and Emily had just got married 10, 10, 20, 15. We got the keys for Savannah that same week. So within three, four months. Three months, we're completely out of money. Our first year of marriage, we have nothing left, and we have to sell our house. We found an old garage that I would like to say was turned into a studio, but it really wasn't. It was the grossest thing I've ever imagined living in. It was the only thing we could afford. She got an air bed, a twin airbed. We realized that we could only grocery shop with just $30 a week. And we couldn't use credit cards anymore because we were already maxed out. So we would go in with a $20 bill and a $10 bill into Walmart for 42 meals.
- [20:45]
That was pretty rough. That was a tough time.
- [20:48]
Tyler
Emily's the one.
- [20:51]
Jesse Cole
She kept me. I don't know how, because I can get into, you know, I think all I entrepreneurs, you know, we're high performers and we think differently, but also, you can spiral a little bit. And I started, I'm optimist. But I was like, em, what are we gonna do? We like, this is bad. Everybody's saying no to us. But she's like, jesse, we did this. We gotta get to that first game. Get to the first game. Get to the first game. So she lifted me up, and we knew we just had to get to that next. That bat. But the first thing was really name the team. Because at that point, we didn't have name the team. So we had to get people to understand who we were. And so that was the big thing, too. And that's when things changed positively and negatively. Because when we did a name the team contest, everyone said, be the spirits, be the ports, be the anchors. You know, be the Braves. I was like, there's a team in Georgia called the Braves. We're not going to be the Braves guys. Like, but there was one, one person that suggested bananas. And I remember we looked at each other and said, yeah, go bananas. And we thought of the Banana Nana senior citizen dance team and the Mananas male cheerleading team. And a banana baby that we lift up before the game. And a banana ban and can't stop the peeling. We just thought about all those eyes. We like, we have to go. It is perfect. And then we announced it and we got crucified. Man, we were ripped apart locally. I mean, it was. It was so bad. Guys, I'll never forget the St. Patrick's Day parade two weeks after we announced. And we're wearing green banana shirts and we're getting booed walking through town. Literally, people are booed.
- [22:16]
Tyler
Were they like, baseball purists, or did they think that you were insulting the town or what?
- [22:19]
Jesse Cole
In, yes. Embarrassment to the city. We were insulting the town. How dare you name the team after the Silly Bananas team? I mean, it was. But nationally, we were like sports center, like, logo of the year. And, like, it was like, nationally, like, yes. Because, you know, they didn't take the pride in Savannah. They're like, this is fun. This is gimmicky. This is cool. Locally, it was bad, but at least people knew who we are. And I believe attention beats marketing 1000% of the time. You gotta create attention first. If people don't know who you are, good luck trying to create something. And so they at least knew who we are. And then when we're like, oh, yeah, every single ticket's all inclusive. They're like, what? I go, yeah, every ticket. All your burgers, hot dogs, chicken sandwiches, soda water, popcorn, dessert all night long. No ticket fees, no convenient fees. $15. People were like, what? And then they were like. And then they started kind of paying attention that we're going to try to make everything fans first. Here's what our players are going to do. We have a banana band. Here's our senior citizen dance team, the Bananas. And they were like, all right, this is a little different. And I think people were expecting us to fail. So we sold out opening night. They all came out and they wanted to see it. And then people had to wait three hours for food because we didn't know we were going to go through 10,000 pieces of meat in an hour. We had no idea how to do that, for the record. But they watched the show. They watched the fun. They watched the banana baby and the band and the players dance. And that's when they started telling everybody. And that's really when it changed after that first night.
- [23:37]
Tyler
I've watched, like, maybe 10 or 20 interviews of you now, and we've talked about you a bunch of the podcasts, and I've noticed that you do a few things consistently, and one of them, you've done here already a bunch of times. You've already named Henry Ford, Bill vet, Walt Disney. You talk about Steve Jobs all the time. You name P.T. barnum, you name Drop all the time. And am I taking. I guess I'm reading into that. Where do you go out and try to find inspiration? And then do you find, like, a couple lines in books and you're like, that's it. That's what we have to do, Or. Because I've learned. You. You. I don't think you've ever explicitly talked about your creative process, other than I think you said that you make a list of 10 new ideas every single day. And then I've also noticed that you have these, like, frameworks where you say, like, Walt Disney said this, and it's as if you, like, read this biography. You saw that one line, you're like, I live my life according to that. Now can you talk a little bit about that? Because that's kind of fascinating.
- [24:27]
Jesse Cole
Well, like Walt Disney said, curiosity keeps leading us down new paths, and we'll keep trying things and experimenting. And it's, It's. It's my curiosity. So, yeah, I'll go very deep on subjects. You know, I don't think there's a track. Yes, I do ten ideas a day. Yes, I journal every day. But it's the. The reading I get fascinated by. So when I started learning about Walt Disney, I read one book, then it guides me to another book, then it guides me to another book, then it guides me to, like, I'm looking across right now. I have an entire bookshelf of all. Every book on Walt Disney and Disney World. Like, it's. I don't know, 100 books, maybe. And then I have a whole section on PT Barn. And then I have an entire shelf on Amazon. Then I have an entire shelf on Steve Jobs. Then I have shelves on, like, espn. I have every book on Taylor Swift. She's fascinating, what she's doing. Marvel, you know, a Grateful Dead, you know, all these different worlds. Because there's. There's a blueprint on how to create something truly special. A world of entertainment that's different than anyone else. But in sports, you know, I would say, you know, obviously, WWE, UFC, F1, they're thinking differently. But in most traditional sports, it's the same thing. You're. You're competing to win. And we're. Our game is compete to create fans and how do we entertain? And so I. I want to learn from the greatest entertainers in the world. So my framework is I'll just go very, very, very deep. And then what I do is I earmark every single page. And I know exactly where, when I earmark a page, what I'm looking For I've done book reports. I've done numerous book reports.
- [25:50]
Tyler
Like Built to Last. Tell me about a book report. Like, what, What's a book report?
- [25:54]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, so we did this as a team. So for many years in the beginning, we actually paid our, our people to read, so we pay them to do book reports. So we're, we're obsessed with learning as part of our organization. So we did that for many years. Now we do kind of team books that we read as, as a group. But yeah, a book report I'll go through and just kind of the biggest takeaways, the biggest things that lead to fans first, ideas, parallels. David Novak, the former CEO of Yum Brands. He had a very good compliment to me. I didn't know what it meant all when he said it at first, but he's like, you're one of the greatest parallel thinkers I've ever seen. I go, thank you, David. What does that mean? And he goes, well, he goes, literally, what, what? You, you can see something and then you can make it your own in a parallel path. And so like when I see something from Grateful Dead about what they did, as far as, you know, they brought, they brought the sound in house, they tried to bring the tickets in house, they tried to, they let all their fans record all of that. Then Dave Matthews followed suit, I can see that. And then followed our way. So that's, you know, again, no real method. It's just I want to look at examples of the best in the world. So like Jimmy Donaldson, you know, he was with us, Mr. Beast. And so like, I've read everything on him, but we spent a lot of time talking together because he's the best in the world at YouTube. So I try to ask all those questions. I think that's just you follow your curiosity.
- [27:03]
Sam Parr
What'd you steal from Jimmy?
- [27:05]
Jesse Cole
Well, the big, the biggest thing I was fascinated with him was the YouTube growth on how he looks outside of the country. 70% of his views come from outside the US and so you better believe that we immediately were hiring, you know, Spanish speaking broadcasters. We're going to hire Japanese speaking broadcasters, and we're going to start having our games and social go all over the world as we continue to grow there. So that was the one thing I was like, all right, what in YouTube can we do right now to grow an audience and create fans? And he shared what he's doing with his audience and dubbing, and that was fascinating.
- [27:36]
Sam Parr
We did a episode with Jimmy and we. He talked about the same sort of ten ideas a Day thing. So he was like, you know, I started this when I was 11 or 12 years old. And he said, kind of your same story. There's a great quote. He goes, At 12 years old, nobody watched. 13 years old, nobody watched 14 years old, nobody watched 15 years old, nobody watched 16 years old. Is anybody ever going to watch? Nope. 17 years old, nobody's still watching. And he's like, finally, when I was 19, I started to get some viewers. And even then, it was small, right? So he had this kind of six years of toiling and obscurity, seven years where it just wasn't working, but he was getting better. And he talked about how he used to do the kind of 10, 20. He's like, the most important thing in a YouTube video is the idea, the premise of the video. So I came up with 10 to 20 ideas a day. He's like, I would flip open a dictionary at the source. So we had him do it live on the podcast. We put a random word generator, and he came up with ideas live on the thing. And you could tell he had built that muscle. So I'm curious, like, you say this thing about the 10 ideas a day. Is that, like, you used to do that early on. Are you still doing that? Is there a sticky note on your desk right now with, like, 10 ideas you wrote this morning?
- [28:37]
Jesse Cole
I did two groups of ideas. No, I have.
- [28:40]
Tyler
Yeah, give it to us, please. Get it.
- [28:42]
Jesse Cole
So here is the idea book. So I have one every single year.
- [28:46]
Tyler
What's that say on the COVID Well.
- [28:48]
Jesse Cole
It just says 20. 25 ideas. Banana ball. So I just have. I have these books all the time. And so, yeah, today I was obsessed. So I'm working on two of our newer teams. So I'm working on the Indianapolis Clowns, which we brought back one of the most famous Negro league teams. And so, yeah, it's all the clowns, characters, dynamic contortionist, bat boy, the juggling hawkers, juggling ball boy, an umpire that's a mime, trampoline, coaches, strongman, balloon artist, ringmaster slash barker, Human cannibal, a character artist. So, like, just. And it starts listings. Like, start thinking about ideas on how we want to build.
- [29:20]
Sam Parr
So I want to zoom in. You do this first thing or you take meetings first, or what? What's your kind of process? Are you, like. Do you have a routine you use?
- [29:26]
Jesse Cole
Sure. Hal Elrod helped me tremendously. So his book Miracle Morning, it was a game changer for me in 2015. I read that. You know, I realized that most people, they. They don't start their day on purpose. They start their day with other people's news, social media, other things going on. And so win the morning, win the day became a huge thing. So 2015, I actually ran into him as speaking appearance. I showed him my first notebook where in 2015 where I started writing and journaling. And so yeah, I have to win the morning. I have three kids, you know, under 7 years old. So I got up very early and I start, I read because your input affects your output. So I want to read something. So I'm ready rereading Amazon Unbound right now. Just the story of how Bezos was continued to grow them. And then literally I start writing journal then one of my ideas. Often I have an idea bucket the day before so I, I can already start thinking about it a little bit before I go to sleep. And then I start that idea bucket the next day.
- [30:15]
Tyler
Dude, you're an animal. You're an animal.
- [30:17]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, I love it though. It doesn't feel like it's, it's. It's never felt like work. There's certain things that if you really love, like ideas. If I've come up with good ideas or ideas that are exciting to me, like I'm fired up the rest of the day. I have great energy. And so it's like you gotta create before you consume. Often we consume and we read all these things and I'm getting criticized. We get all these different things, but it's like if I can create first. And that's, I mean we just today literally to record this, we just launched our first ever fans first ticket marketplace. So secondary market right now we're getting killed. People are spending 4, 5, 6, $700,000 for tickets. And often they're getting scammed. We built our own one face value. No markups, no fees. We just announced that 30 minutes ago. Like that fires me up because I'm gonna learn. We're gonna get it out there, we're gonna start experimenting. Like you get to do new things. That's what Walt Disney. You get to try new things constantly. And I love that.
- [31:04]
Sam Parr
I feel like now the sort of you've hit escape velocity and people now recognize, oh wait, this is something special. And you have a lot of momentum going. And I'm sure whether it's speaking fees or like speaking gigs or just meeting interesting people throughout doing what you're doing, you've now gotten into some pretty interesting rooms. Like you've met, you know, you've mentioned reading about Jeff Bezos. You'll beat Jeff Bezos, if you haven't already, these things will happen. Because I think everybody can take inspiration from a, a brand builder and a fan. First customer, first mindset that's like not just words, but actually put into action in all these really interesting ways. Who have you met in this? That, that kind of was like a wow moment for you or, or, and, and I'm curious, what do they want to learn from you? What do they pull from you? Because I think, you know, it doesn't matter how sort of successful you are in one industry. I think there's a lot they can learn from you.
- [31:52]
Jesse Cole
Well, I appreciate that, but you know, whenever I get a call with one of these people, I'm picking their brain like crazy and asking questions. But yeah, just a question.
- [31:59]
Sam Parr
Tug of war.
- [32:00]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, it usually is. You know, it's funny the, the FaceTimes and the videos and the calls that I get now, but you know, one that stood out for me was Bob Iger a couple months ago. And you know, I have so much respect for what he did and to continue to make creative the heartbeat of Disney, you know, I think it loses its. Sometimes it ebbs and flows with the creative. And after that, Walt was gone for 20, 30 years. They were figuring out then Michael Eisner and Frank Wells came in and went crazy. And then Iger kept it going to a whole nother level and now again trying to re. Bring back that. That was a 30 minute conversation. I walked out, fired up. So, you know, I mean there's, it's a wide array, you know, from, you know, the heads of WWE and some WWE wrestlers to actors to actresses, to a lot of musicians. Now I'm hearing from a lot of musicians, you know, big time football players and you know, athletes. But you know, I think my biggest thing is I always just want to host them. Come out to our show. You know, you learn by seeing. Watch how we literally start entertaining seven hours before the game. Watch how we stay two hours after the game and continue entertaining. Like that's what Taylor Swift, she's like, I'm going to do 3 hour and 45 minute set, which is crazy because I want to over deliver. And so we look to over deliver with everything. And so, you know, I enjoy hosting people more at our shows and getting to meet them and share with them the behind the scenes. That's where I get a lot of.
- [33:16]
Tyler
Joy when I hear you talk. I think I would never want to compete against this person. And we've, and we've had a bunch of people like that I think Jimmy.
- [33:23]
Jesse Cole
Was one of them.
- [33:24]
Tyler
Where you're like, oh, this guy is just like, he's going to. He's going to die or win.
- [33:28]
Jesse Cole
I mean, there's.
- [33:29]
Tyler
There's. You know, you're going against a crazy person. You don't seem motivated by money. You don't seem particularly competitive with the outside world. You must have a chip on your shoulder and what caused it and what's. And what's kind of forcing you to keep on moving forward. Yeah.
- [33:42]
Sam Parr
Name that chip.
- [33:44]
Jesse Cole
Certainly have a chip on his shoulder. And I think. But that's not what I'm chasing. I mean, yeah, a chip on my shoulder. You know, I was an only child. You know, I. I always wanted to make my dad proud. That was kind of a big thing for me. I want to make my dad proud. He worked really hard, spent a lot of hours working, and I always wanted to do well for him. But then I didn't get drafted. Tore my shoulder. I think often I've been, you know, misunderstood is probably the way Bezos would explain it. Like, misunderstood. And, you know, we've got criticism every step of the way, you know, in Gastonia. What are we doing here in Savannah? You know, how dare you bring college summer baseball. How dare you name the team the Bananas. How dare you leave traditional baseball to create this silly sport called banana ball. You know, it happens all the time. The one that really fires me up now that I have a folder saved. It's a fad. It'll be gone. Their 15 minutes are up. I have every one of those saved, and I will never say anything back to them except. So when some people, when they get really going, I just write, thanks for the inspiration. Because it actually. And I mean that sincerely. You know, those. The. And ones and all the groups that have kind of come along and disappeared, I get fired up about because. Because we are completely misunderstood. People think we are the Harlem Globetrotters. We're building a sport. There will be a world where the kids first ball they pick up is a yellow banana ball. There will be a world where banana ball is played all over the world because of the entertainment level, because it's not just about people who love the sport. They love the fun, they love the show. Plus, they love the crazy talent that these guys can do with backflip catches and trick plays and the celebrations. They love how if they sit in the upper deck, we're going to come up there and we're going to give them flowers and we're going to throw giveaways and we're going to put on a show no matter where they're sitting, even if they're the furthest seat away. And so I get excited for that money. You know, again, 10 years ago, we had nothing. And so now, yes, we're very fortunate with the businesses, but nah, I chase moments. Like, there's certain moments. You know, our first game at Fenway Park, I was a kid who grew up with a goal to play at Fenway park, grew up south of Boston, and we had the largest crowd of the year there. And we're all singing the moment yellow, which is a powerful moment. You've probably seen the videos and everyone's got their flashlight. The whole stadium is singing yellow. And I'm on the field and saying, look at what we get to do together. Or our first football stadium with 81,000 fans, and we're putting on a halftime show with 250 people in the middle of the game, which should never happen. And I'm jumping up and down because I'm feeling it, you know, when we're going to do 100,000 seat stadium, when we're going to do a cruise where, you know, all these, we're playing aircraft carriers, all these things, play games at beaches. Those moments fire me up because you get to feel a part of something and you get to feel alive. You know, I think I want to feel alive. And I'm sure you guys get that feeling too. With certain things. It's not the money, it's. It's these moments that, you know, really light me up.
- [36:24]
Sam Parr
You're sort of like this joyful version of Dana White or Vince McMahon, you know, like, I think Dana literally said the same thing in a, in a press conference. He goes, he's like, I'm in the. We're in the business of moments. And he goes, we sell good moments and then sometimes we sell holy shit moments. And tonight was a holy shit moment. He's talking about a big knockout that happened.
- [36:41]
Jesse Cole
We're a similar mindset. You know, I've got to work a little bit with those guys. Haven't connected directly with him yet. But I mean, yeah, he creates these moments that you never imagined. I love it.
- [36:50]
Sam Parr
That's amazing. He's just sort of like rage fueled more so than you're like, I want to create this amazing family fun, you know? You know, but. But I think that's part of the nature of fighting versus, you know, baseball.
- [37:00]
Jesse Cole
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Sam Parr
Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot. Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data. That's like reading a book but then tearing out 4/5 of the pages. Point is, you miss a lot. And unless you're using HubSpot, the customer platform that gives you access to the data you need to grow your business, the insights that are trapped in emails, call logs, transcripts, all that unstructured data makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. And so if you want to read the whole book instead of just reading part of it, visit HubSpot.com when you sit, you step back. You know, how do you sort of figure out the good ideas versus the bad? It's easy to come up with 10 ideas a day. It's easy to sort of think of these things in hindsight. But, you know, when you say the ticket price is $25, there's no ticket fees, we sort of round off the change. That's cute. When you're selling 200 tickets, now you're selling. I think I did. The math is like, this is like tens of millions of dollars. You're eating in cost by eating the ticket fees or revenue left on the table, depending on how you wanted to look at it.
- [37:55]
Tyler
Bit of it, yeah.
- [37:56]
Sam Parr
And, you know, I'm sure there's a, you know, someone over there with a spreadsheet who's like, jesse, this is not. Can we not do that anymore? Like, can we charge for hot dogs? Because, you know, this is.
- [38:07]
Jesse Cole
They know better in our organization at this point.
- [38:09]
Sam Parr
But yes, well, like, I guess, what are your principles? So one thing you've talked about is like, fan first. And I think if you asked if I go to 100 businesses around here, I said, were you. Are you a customer first business? They would all say, of course, of course, customer matters. But then you go look at their actions and they're totally out of line with. With customer first. And so, like, what are the different principles you have or the things you find yourself repeating over and over again? That sort of. Or when a new person comes in, they really have to, like, almost break their brain and rebuild it to work the way you guys want to work and come up with the ideas you guys want to come up.
- [38:39]
Jesse Cole
Well, we started simply by naming our company Fans First Entertainment. So that was the start. So by naming the team Fans First Entertainment, it made it very clear who we are, who we work for. You know, we said our beginning, our mission, fans first entertain. Always. Like, that's what we do. As we've grown, we've developed a little bit more of our core beliefs. And our fans first principles, which we talk about all the time. So like, how we hire who we are is. I try to keep things very simple. Always be. So it's Alphabet. Always be caring, different, enthusiastic, fun, growing and hungry. So like that is who we are. And so even when we hire people an essay, how do they fit those core beliefs? And then we have show us your future resume. Because we're not really interested in what you've done in the past. We want to know what you want to do in the future and how do you fit. If you say you want to stay the same position for the next five years, you're probably not growing and hungry. So we can find that out. Then a few years ago, we developed our fans first principles. Inspired a little bit by Bezos and his 14 leadership principles, we developed 11. And 11's a very big number in banana land. So the 11th letter of the Alphabet is K and the symbol for potassium is K. So we use 11 a lot. I know that sounds like kind of silly, but the reality is we realize this all started because of a banana. And if you think about Walt Disney, they were out of business, bankruptcy. And he said it all started because of a mouse. And they had le. They had a lucky alt. Rabbit was stolen from them. He had nothing. And then he came up with Mortimer mouse. His wife corrected him, said let's do Mickey. And that kind of changed everything. So for us, it started with a banana. So we have 11 fans first principles. We have 11 rules of banana ball. We do our countdown from 11. 11 is a very big part of us. And so yeah, it starts. We're fanatical about the fan. We entertain, always play the long game. We, whatever's normal, do the exact opposite. So again, I don't want anyone ever gets excited about normal. Ideas are everything. As we talked about that is kind of how it's starting point. Everything. Constantly curious. We're always going to learn from the best. And outside the industry. Not in our industry. Outside everything speaks. That's a Walt Disney one. You know, if you lose the detail, you lose it all. And so we're obsessed with the details. Fewer things done better. So we eliminated all of our sponsorship in 2020, which we eliminate all of our events. And we focus solely on banana Ball because we wanted what can you be the best in the world at? And we believe we can create the greatest show in sports. And so we went obsessed with that. Relentlessly resourceful. When we moved into our new office, not people know this, but I made a trade. I got all of the Furniture traded for free. I sold my soul a little bit. I think I gave two or three speeches. But we get all of it for free. And so that was very important. It was hundreds of thousands of dollars and so little mindset. Uphold the highest standards. That's very. At the highest, not high, because everyone has a different version of their high standards. And then finally, always plus the experience. And so those guide us. We talk about them every Tuesday in Snapchat. We have people give examples of how we're doing that. And then when we have really big moments, we share again, a big example. So everyone knows how we do that.
- [41:32]
Tyler
So I'm, I'm cycle analyzing you a little bit because I've just, I. I admire you so much, and I want to like, steal a little pieces of, like, the way, the way you operate. You're doing something that we talked about, Sean, when we talked about MTV and how they sort of like, said, this is the world that we are building. So they basically like, what, what you're doing is, you're saying, I'm creating a world. I'm world building. I'm not necessarily empire building. But you're, you're creating this world with its own rules. And I think where a lot of entrepreneurs, myself included, fall short is you say like, your values, and you're like, well, I'm just kind of going through the motions of getting it done. And if I asked you what your values were, sometimes you wouldn't even remember what they are, or they would just, you know, do it because they have to. You, you, you do this really good job of creating these rules and processes that you actually abide to abide by. And some of them sound incredibly silly. Like, you know, you have, like, you have all these phrases. Like, you had the one city world tour, I think your first world tour, it was just in Georgia or Macon, Georgia.
- [42:27]
Jesse Cole
There's meaning behind that in the whole thing. There's meaning behind that, which I can get into later.
- [42:30]
Tyler
But the point is, is that there's meaning, there's meaning to, there's intention and mean. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they don't have the courage to say, this is the world that I'm building, and here's the rules and laws of the world that I'm building, and I'm going to stick to them. And I might, some of them might sound silly, like wearing a yellow tuxedo all the time, but there's a reason for them. But if I live it according to the rules, it's going to actually become a Thing. Did you always have that in you or is this like something where like you've learned, like, man, if I just say it enough times, I'll start to believe it and it'll start become true. Like walk me, walk us through that.
- [43:01]
Jesse Cole
No, I guess if you, it's your average of the five people you surround yourself with. My five people have been, you know, Walt Disney, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos. And so, and I mean that not arrogantly, I have read and learned more of what they think and that's around me. And so Walt Disney was a world builder. And yeah, you better believe we will build a Banana Land, the first ever sports and entertainment theme land. You better believe every single team that we build, we, we build with that point of view in mind. I mean, if you don't think we just built the local beach, coconuts and we're not going to build a local beach, you're crazy. And so, and if you don't think we, we built the Indianapolis Clowns with a homage to the history of the 1940s and 50s to build that land. Re up, like all of this has a bigger picture. So I just, I've surrounded myself with that and, and I think, you know, it, it, it fires me up and there's certain principles like, I want to go back to the one city world tour, start small, dream big. One city world tour. We still call it a world tour. We've got numerous opportunities to play internationally. We've turned it all down. But we call it a world tour because that is where we are going. That is our vision, that is what we believe. And so we're going to continue to call it and then we will pretty soon start doing international. But everything we do the cruise for the first time, a football stadium for the first time is a one city dream big. We did a few football teams, now we're doing 10. We're doing multiple nights at the Superdome and the Patriots stadium and literally we're doing Kyle Field and Neyland stadium with over 100,000 fans. That was a one city test and now we're, we're expanding it. So yeah, I never thought of the world builder, but I love it when you can create everything and control everything. What people don't realize control is such a big part of this. Most people give up control and when you give up control, you lose more fans than you realize. We do our own, we built our own ticket system. Now we built our own secondary ticket system. We do all the merchandise in house, everything from our house. We do our logistics in house, we do the entertainment in house, we do our broadcast in house, which leaves millions of dollars on the table because we're doing it all on YouTube. And so like, when you do it all in house, you afford yourself the opportunity to learn and to fail, but also to connect closer with your fans because you can see directly how they're responding. And on outsourcing, your core competency. And so that's part of this world, I think, is, you know, Walt Disney wanted to control everything when people came into his theme park and, you know, he couldn't control a movie theater. When you go into a movie theater could be dirty, could be gross. Who's serving you sticky? The food, all that, the lighting, all of that. But he can control Disneyland. And I think about that often.
- [45:29]
Sam Parr
Did you raise money for this or do you, do you control 100% of this business? What's the, what does the business side look like?
- [45:35]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, well, we, we went into a lot of debt. We took in the opening debt and it was just my wife and I and we paid that off very quickly. Fortunately, after our first two years we were, you know, selling out games is good for the business model and especially the more fans you sell out, it helps. And then the merchandise has been bigger than anybody's ever imagined. So, yeah, no, we've, we get offers daily, probably at this point in emails, but we've turned them all away because they're interested in, you know, return and they're interested in, you know, some controlling aspects. And, you know, I, I have no interest in return if, if Cheryl would say, start charging taxes, start doing shipping fees, start having more sponsorship, take the huge TV partnerships, there'd be easy, probably 50 to 100 million just like that. And that'd be a no brainer for investor. But that doesn't interest me. So yeah, we, my wife and I, own it 100% and we don't plan to change that ever.
- [46:27]
Tyler
Do you, on your weekly leadership meetings or whatever you guys have, do you pay attention to the finances at all or do you just say like, revenue is a scorecard? If we're doing things right, that's all I care about. Make sure I have enough money in the bank to go do what I want.
- [46:39]
Jesse Cole
You focus on the metrics that matter most to your customers. That's what I pay most attention to. So you better believe that. I pay attention to the speed of every game. I pay attention to how long the merchandise lines are at every game. I pay attention to how many trick plays are how many ball, four sprints do you really.
- [46:52]
Sam Parr
Do you have a metric for like wait times on March?
- [46:55]
Tyler
What's the wait time? Right now?
- [46:57]
Jesse Cole
It depends on the stadium. That's the biggest challenge. So right now we're at a really. If we go to Yankee Stadium or Fenway park or a football stadium, depending on the size and the setup. So we invested this past year with another experiment. Jared Ordon, our president, was brilliant in this. He said, we're going to set up an outdoor mall. So we bought a monster tent. And that was a test at Yankee Stadium. And that changed everything. Our per cap went up, so we had to find the space to do that. And we did the same thing in Seattle. We're planted there. So it depends if you're indoors, if you're in stadium, we have a. We can only have a small tent. It's really bad. My goal is to get everyone within 10 minutes. We're not close to it right now, but the same thing at serving all you can eat food. Right now in Savannah, everyone can get fed within five minutes. The first few nights it was an hour. So, like, we'll get there. But those are the metrics that I focus on. So to answer your question about money, I. I have one meeting a year. It's coming up and it's about an hour or two, and our finance director and Jared will share us what we're looking at. And me and Emily just said, all right, great. Where are we reinvesting?
- [47:54]
Tyler
And so what Dana White said too, I think Dana White, I heard him say he's like, I. I meet with the CFO occasionally, but I just, you know, I don't really care.
- [48:04]
Jesse Cole
It's. It is what it is. And again, we're very healthy. And all the estimates that people have are dramatically low on where we are. Like it is. We are very, very healthy. And I know that I pay attention to right now. We're going, you know, obviously you go into Christmas holidays. So how many fans are we serving merchandise? How quickly are we serving them? How quickly are we getting it out? We have a huge hundred thousand plus square foot warehouse that we have now. And our team is like, get out, get out, get out. How quickly can we serve them? That's the things. So I'll know exactly how many people we serve when we do a 24 hour shirt. You know, we go through 30,000 orders in 24 hours. Like, I know the metric this year versus last year. And how do we continue to grow that? Because that means we're creating a better product and a better experience and have More fans, social media. I pay attention all that as well.
- [48:44]
Sam Parr
Have you ever heard the founder of Airbnb Talk about the 12 Star experience?
- [48:47]
Jesse Cole
Do you know this framework?
- [48:48]
Tyler
Yes.
- [48:48]
Jesse Cole
I love Brian Chesky. He's one I would love to met. Me too. I've taken a lot of inspiration from him. Yeah, like the helicopter, the firefighter, the fireworks going off the red carpet. Yeah.
- [48:57]
Sam Parr
Okay, we'll connect you with him. But one of the things that. One of the things you reminded me of was there's an anecdote about you pointed the cameras at the game, at the stadium, at the fans, instead of at the game, because you were like, I want to watch from the security camera when people get bored and when they leave. Is this true? Because you wanted to basically, like study the fan experience and try to understand, like, what, where are the lulls, where are the dips? Almost like how Jimmy would look at his YouTube video retention chart and say, oh, at seven minutes there's a dip. What did we do at seven minutes? Oh, that's when we did our ad reads. We need to make those more entertaining because we can't, we can't lose people during that time.
- [49:34]
Jesse Cole
Yeah. Obsessed with that. Yeah. What people don't know, that's when I'm on the field. And again, I'm on the field in front of the dugout with our players. We're always out there. I'm constantly turning around and watching the fans and watching the reactions. And our director of entertainment, who we've worked now for five years, it's so unbelievable because we can look at each other and all of a sudden say, all right, energy, music, energy, music now. Because we can know when the energy is down. We can look at each other and just a feel. And it's really special. But yeah, it was, geez, many years ago. And when we were looking at this debate to go to banana ball and I realized that, hey, fans were leaving games early. And I said, we need to document this. And so, yeah, it was actually one of our staff members, one of our ushers. We take pictures and video every 30 minutes, starting 5:30, 6, 6:37, 7:30, 8, 8:39. And we realized at 9: o', clock, the first influx of people left. 9:15, a lot more. 9:30, more. And so I was like, we got to do a two hour time limit. And no one said they wanted a two hour time limit. The games at that point in Major league baseball were 3 hours and 12 minutes. So even when I shared internally, our team was like, Jesse, two and a half is probably fair. I mean, that's still dramatic. I go, no, you want people to want more. There's a difference. You know, a great comedian, you want more. At the end, a great concert, you want the encore. I go, in baseball, everyone's like, I've had enough. I was like, we got to create a product that people always want more. And so that's what that helped us determine the two hour time limit. And, you know, that's how we look at everything.
- [50:58]
Sam Parr
So me and Tyler, the CEO of Beehive, came up with a little challenge for you. It's the newsletter challenge. Now, if you know me, you know that I'm a big fan of newsletters. I got my own newsletter. I also had a business that was a newsletter business that was amazing. I wrote this newsletter about crypto. We grew it to quarter million subscribers and we ended up selling it after a year for millions of dollars. And I want you to be able to do the same thing in your business. So we're doing a challenge. Ten grand is on the line. Plus me and Tyler will actually be in your corner as growth advisors. You just need to go to beehive.com mfm and you either start a new newsletter or you move your current newsletter over there. And five finalists will get picked to pitch me and Tyler, sort of like Shark Tank. And the winner gets ten grand. So go to beehive.com mfm that's beehive.com mfm to enter the challenge today.
- [51:41]
Tyler
How many HQ staff do you, do you have now?
- [51:46]
Jesse Cole
I wish, I wish I had the answer for you. I'll give you an idea of what it looks like on the road. So if we go to a major league stadium or football stadium, we travel with 200 plus people.
- [51:54]
Sam Parr
Wow.
- [51:55]
Jesse Cole
If we have a minor league stadium, it's 150 people. And so we have three tours, we have six teams. So we're traveling with 500 plus people. Then we hire between 100 to 300 at each stadium as part time staff to help with merch, tickets, logistics, et cetera. And then we have our team in Savannah, so and then we have our cast. I mean it's, it's hundreds. You know, some are equivalent, some are full time, but yeah, we're hiring every week there's new people joining our team.
- [52:21]
Tyler
And I read that you had the business and you were like, we're going to get into social media. And I think it was like, I don't really know what I'm doing, but like, hey, you, you know my coworker, just start Go and figure this out. Is that true? And were you successful in just getting, like, young, inexperienced people and inspiring them? And that worked out? And has that worked out better than hiring more the. Than more of the experienced people?
- [52:44]
Jesse Cole
We have very few from the outside. I would say 80. 80% have been started as interns, you know, and I. I was an intern for a little bit. My wife was an intern. We believe in that. You learn. You learn from seeing how people do in this kind of cult. So, yeah, social media, again, first insight, can't stop the peeling. 2016, we created a music video to it. And Justin Timberlake, we made Can't Stop the Peeling. It was a very rudimentary video, but I watched. I remember watching it put on on Facebook, and I was like, 10,000 views, 20,000 views, 30,000 views. It got like a hundred thousand views. I was like, whoa, people like this? And I was like, let's do more of this. And again. So once TikTok came around in 2020, when we started paying attention, yeah, one of our interns, I said, just post every single day. She goes, what do I post? I go, I don't know. But make baseball fun. If it's that, if it's make baseball fun, if it fits that overall brand, do it. And we learn. And then nothing happened the first few weeks. Then we had one that hit was like, all right, it's our players. What are our players doing? Okay, now let's do this with our players. How about a music video with our players? How about this? And just kept iterating. We posted every single day from 2020. And so that's literally how we learned. And you think about our second team, the Party Animals. They have more followers than every Major League baseball team on TikTok because we started with them, you know, in 2022 or so. And so, yeah, everything is just. You can't be afraid of failing. I mean, every night, we do 10 to 15 promotions we've never done in front of a live crowd. Games, skits, ideas. Every single night. We have our scripts, and, you know, it's different colors to show the new things we haven't done before. That's where you learn. And so we're not afraid of failing because we're just gonna keep trying new things, and our fans will give us the benefit of the doubt because they know, hey, they're just gonna try something new next and they're gonna keep trying.
- [54:27]
Sam Parr
Somebody told me you guys treat this almost like Saturday Night Live. Like you have the pitch meeting the way Saturday Night Live has this kind of weekly schedule where they pitch and then they. Then they script and then they rehearse, then they sort of edit from there. Like, is that what you guys do?
- [54:40]
Jesse Cole
So you solve first your problems, the fans. So the starting point of everything is what are the friction points from your fan point of view? And then you can do it from your organization's point of view. So the friction from the point, from the fans, too long, too slow, too boring. You get nickel and dimed, all that stuff. So we just kind of went from there and create that. Then from the internals, like, okay, creative. It's hard. It's hard to come up with creative ideas all the time. I mean, I know these idea books. It's hard. And so we said, all right, well, who's been sustaining creativity at a very high level for a very long time and doing new shows constantly? Saturday Night Live. So you better believe I bought every book on Saturday Live. And then I realized, guys, there's a documentary on a week behind the scenes of Saturday Live by, I think James Franco did. I was like, guys, we have to watch this. So our creative team was a small team back then. I was like. We watched it like, all right, they come in Monday and then they pitched the idea. It was a John Malkovich. It was the host. That way. They pitched to John, then they pitched to Lauren. Then they start writing. Then they have an idea session, then they have a table read. Then they start getting the props, and then they do it. And then they do a show at 8 o' clock in front of a live audience. And they watch what hits with the live audience, what doesn't. Then they put the new ones in 1130 and cut everything else out. It's like, guys, we're the same thing. Like, let's just do that. And so we started, we built it. It's Tuesdays, because Monday's our travel day. So Tuesday's our OTT session. Over the top ideas. Everyone comes with ideas. So we actually have a form that you gotta fill out.
- [55:56]
Sam Parr
Even just naming it over the top.
- [55:58]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, a hundred percent. So, yeah, over the top. And so form gotta fill out by midnight. So we have all the ideas, whether it's a walk up, whether it's a celebration, whether it's, you know, something in the crowd, whatever that is. And then if there's a video or a full description. And then our meeting starts at 10 o'. Clock. We review all those. Then we have a smaller group meeting at 11 o'. Clock. Then the players share some of their ideas. Broadcast Share some of their ideas. And by 4 o' clock on Tuesday, we have a table read where we go over what's going to be in the script. Then we start getting the props, the creative. Then we do rehearsals when we in the in Savannah. Then we do rehearsals in the city. Then we do rehearsals in front of our vip, our very important bananas, which is our special VIP group. And so we get to watch them. How do they react? Are they taking video? Are they into it or not? And then we put it into the show and that's repeated with every one of our teams.
- [56:40]
Tyler
This business sounds so hard to run. You have, I mean, so you have that. You have just the production of the snl, you know, just so you have your personnel issues. You're going to have some personality clashes. You're going to have like pay paying them and keeping everyone in line and then getting funny stuff out the door. Then you have merch. I think merch makes up half or 40% or something of your revenue, which is hundreds of millions of dollars. You have supply chain issues. Then you're traveling with hundreds of people. Then you're doing social media. I mean, this is an incredibly complicated business.
- [57:06]
Sam Parr
You're playing the game on extreme hard mode and I respect you for.
- [57:09]
Tyler
It's way harder than I thought. When you name it all, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so much. And then you just have like normal company operation.
- [57:15]
Sam Parr
The principle is don't do the same show ever again.
- [57:18]
Jesse Cole
Every show has to be brand new. And yes, the logistics are impossible. We hired someone from the military that helped us. And like, because we've got trucks all over the country, multiple trucks. When we're going to a football stand with 100,000 people, we need 12 to 14 trucks. But then we also have two other games. Another part of the country that we need separate merchandise and the teams are playing each other different times. So we're bringing all the merchandise and all the show and all the props to go there. And then we're flying everyone around the country getting them in. It's crazy.
- [57:43]
Tyler
But then check this out. Look, if you move your head. So move your head like this, it looks like you have two books behind you. I think you wrote two books, right? Just Jesse Cole.
- [57:50]
Jesse Cole
Yeah.
- [57:51]
Tyler
Oh, my God. Okay, so Jesse Cole has three books. And then I also read online. Then you have a bit Hulu documentary and I think you have another one somewhere else. Yeah, and then I think I read somewhere online that I think you said you don't take a salary or you're one of the lowest paid people and that you live off of your speaking fees. Okay, so Jesse, as a book, three books, documentaries, speaking fee, I did this monster of a business that is incredibly complicated. What price are you paying to do all this?
- [58:19]
Jesse Cole
It's a good question. I think it's the right question. I believe in doing what gives you energy. I'm very, very fortunate that what I do gives me energy. When I first started in Gastonia and I was doing everything, operations, hiring, you name it, I was worn out. Now, like speaking or being with you guys right now, this fires me up. I love creating, I love sharing, I love growing. So when I can go speak, you know that that's an energy giver. And so, you know, I think our family, we homeschool now. You know, we have three kids, we homeschool, we travel. I, I think, you know, I do daddy, daughter dates and burger boys and my son and I focus on that. But I can always be better in that area. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with it. I love it. It brings me so much joy and I stay really focused. Even though it sounds like there's lots of things. I'm focused on trying to create the greatest fan experience in sports and the greatest show in sports every day. And if I'm speaking, I'm sharing about it. If I'm on a podcast, I'm sharing about it. Or in the morning, I'm working my team on creating it. So it's really, it sounds widespread, but it's all focused on doing something very, very narrow.
- [59:23]
Sam Parr
What's your talent strategy? So are you like, oh, we use recruiters and then they come in for interviews. Or is it like you look in the TikTok comments and you find people like, what, what, what is Jesse doing to source some of these, like, diamonds that, that, that end up being there?
- [59:35]
Jesse Cole
This is the crazy one, guys. So, like, yes, I'm very grateful that we have 4.2 million people on our, you know, wait list to get tickets Whatever. There's 12,700 on our wait list to work with us. And so we have a wait list. So it's what I believe is attracting over recruiting. If you're very vocal on who you are and what you stand for, you often attract people and I attract people. I never imagined we'd attract that. Even you guys. I was listening to you guys before we even knew each other. Like, again, I'm so grateful for that. And so, yes, I'm working with Circus LA right now on bringing on some cast At a higher level, because you better believe the Indianapolis Clowns. It's going to be the greatest show people have ever seen. It's going to, we're going to take that to a whole nother level. So I'm working with some of the, you know, work with WWE UFC on some stuff, you know, people that are great, but a lot of it is just attracting young, hungry talent that believe in us and believe in what we're doing and they'll give their hearts to it. And very, very special.
- [60:31]
Tyler
I think that if I had to make a prediction, I think, and I'd be curious to hear, like, if you ever. We probably don't have enough time, but like we brainstorm ideas here on this podcast a lot. But I would be curious. I think that. So Ari Emanuel, who runs Endeavor and they own wwe ufc, tbr, whatever, a ton of stuff. He did this great podcast with Patrick o' Shaughnessy and he was like, basically, I'm betting, I'm making an anti AI bet. So he was saying like hotel bookings for Thursdays are now up through the roof, busy drive times are at 11am and he's like, basically people are working less and they want to go out and have experiences. And so my prediction for you guys is that there's going to be a second win. I mean, you're already like, at like, you're, you're, I don't want to say you're at a peak, but you're like, you're like killing it right now. I think there's going to be another like macro trend that pushes you even further up this mountain of glory. Are you feeling that? And also, have you seen any other, Like, a lot of people don't realize this, that Circus Soleil is a multi billion dollar company. Have you seen like any cool events, businesses that like are shockingly large or well run or that inspire you?
- [61:35]
Jesse Cole
You know, I mean, I, I think, I mean I named the main. There's probably other ones out internationally that I'm not aware of at this point. But yeah, no, I, I'm fascinated by the cruise industry too as well because they're, they're combining the entertainment, the shows, everything. They're creating their own worlds. So I've got a lot closer. Obviously we're doing our own to learn. Can we put on a show for five days for all of our, for our fans with no playing banana ball? So that's a good test that we're looking for. But yeah, no, I, I don't, I don't think I look at that. But I, I, I'm fascinated about the youth game of banana ball and developing that. We did a one city world tour test with a youth tournament that sold out in Cleveland, had kids from 48 states come in. So we're going to build the sport that way and then obviously continue to look at, I mean, we're going to do a tour movie. I'm really inspired by what Taylor Swift has done and how she built that ecosystem, created a great tour. Then all these little, you know, things from the flywheel that jumped off it. We're, we're going to do some of that. We're creating original music. So I haven't announced, but we have an unbelievable music partnership with very well known group that's gonna help create original music for us. So all those steps I think are gonna take the show to another level. If we keep making our show better, I believe everything will take care of itself. We just, we can never settle for, hey, that last year's show was great. Let's do the same thing. That's, that's what scares me.
- [62:47]
Sam Parr
If we saw you when you were a kid, like a teenager, 12 years old maybe, what would we have seen? Were you like selling CDs and like hustling entrepreneurially? Were you like Mr. Popular at school? Were you on the fringes? Like, who were you when you were young? And would there have been any clues that this is who comes out of that?
- [63:05]
Jesse Cole
Yeah, no, I was, I was, I was a, I was a shy kid to start. And then when I was by myself a lot. And so I mean, I remember literally during the summer my dad would go to work and you know, I was like 12 or whatever. He's like, jesse, what'd you do? I was like, I wrote to Alex's house, I rode my bike to John's house. I didn't do that. Like, I didn't have a lot of friends and I had my friends through baseball. And so anytime I was around my baseball team, I would try to create attention. I would try to do anything because it was my time around people my age. And so, you know, I think that that love and being around people, I think I didn't have that as much. And now being around 50,000, 100,000 people and staying till the last fan leaves to sign their autographs, like that is something that I think because of what I had and what I, what I wanted, now I can have at a higher level that I keep pushing for that. But yeah, I was, I mean, creating attention. We instead of public speaking which ironic. I now speak. We created movies. So we used imovie and we were the first ones to create movies. So I learned how to create movies in social media. And like, like not social media back then, but how to make videos that people were interested in that guided us with what we do on social media. So, yeah, I was creative, but I was alone. I just played baseball and I just. I think it was more the world I surrounded myself with after, after school. The Walt Disney, the P.T. barnum, the Bill Vex. It was that world that really.
- [64:22]
Tyler
You were interested in those guys when you were younger?
- [64:25]
Jesse Cole
No. None of it. No, it was after. So, like, yes. Did I go to Walt Disney? And I was the big kahuna at Typhoon Lagoon, which they let me in early and I got to have this whole experience. It was magical. Did I have some really cool experiences at a national tournaments or going to Disney? Yes. I didn't know anything about them other than what most people knew. It was that world. I surrounded myself afterwards like you guys. I mean, think about this. 10, 15, 20 years ago. It's what you've learned. Now in the last 10, 15 years, that world has impacted you. You know, I. Maybe there were some influences, obviously back in school, but it's more now. You find this new world of entrepreneurs and creative thinking and creators and that inventors and that. That fires me up.
- [65:02]
Tyler
Sean, have you ever seen the talk? So Jesse does these things on his Instagram where he gives the players a talk before the game. I don't know if it's like new players or something like that or if it's before every game. But you had the guys in the stands.
- [65:14]
Sam Parr
No, I haven't seen these.
- [65:15]
Tyler
Okay, so he gets everyone. I'm. I'm going to tell the story for you, Jesse, as an outsider, and you can correct me if I'm. If I'm getting it wrong, but you have the, the. I think it's the team, but maybe there's some of the staff. You have them, I think, in the outfield stands or somewhere, like not in the front row. And you're like, you're sitting here because you need to be where like some of the worst seats are. So you understand that we have to make this great for everyone. And then you tell this amazing story and it sound. I'm. I imagine you repeat some of the stories, but every time I've watched it, it's been a unique story and it inspires them so, so much where I'm like, this fucking guy has made like playing like silly baseball like, seem like I'm, like, saving the world, and I'm so invested into it, where I'm like, you guys are doing God's work, right? Like, you're. The guy in stilts is doing God's work. Like, I'm so bought in. I agree with you. I agree with you. You've judoed me where, like, I totally bought into this. Did you have to learn how to storytell like this? Because you're doing such a good job of getting me invested. And I see the players. The players, and typically baseball players, by the way. When I grew, I grew or hung out with the college baseball players. They weren't like, the coolest guys. They were always kind of, like, too cool for school. Like, they didn't want to, like, do silly stuff. And these guys are, like, so wholesome and awesome. Did you learn how to, like, tell stories like this? Because it's incredibly effective.
- [66:26]
Jesse Cole
Thank you. 100%. And, yeah, still to this day.
- [66:29]
Tyler
Did I tell that right? Those talks?
- [66:31]
Jesse Cole
Yeah. Yes. It's. Whenever we come to a city, the first thing we do is we have our fans first talk. And so that is the entire staff, the cast, the players. So we can have upwards of 200 people in those. But yes, both teams, the players are there. And every week we have a new talk. And it is one of the most stressful things for me. And I'll tell you, I could speak in front of a Fortune 50 company or 10,000 people. I'm more nervous speaking to our 150 people because I know my words. Our words mean so much to them, and it's weighted differently, and I care truly how it impacts them. So, yeah, every week it's like, what's our message? How does it fit fans first? How does it fit a principal? How do we, you know, like, win the upper deck? We talk about that all the time. Win the upper deck. And, you know, I just think about, I have a lens now. You guys look at this. Like, one, two lenses I have is a friction fighter. Wherever I go, I see friction. So this is what Walt Disney said. Whenever I go on a ride, I'm always asking what's wrong with this thing and how it could be improved. If I go to a restaurant, if I'm driving down the road, if I'm going to a store, I notice what are the friction points from a customer point of view. That's just my lens. Now, the other friction or the other lens I see is I always see stories and everything. Anything that happens, what's the story that can be told. And when I think about speaking it's like, what's your story? What's your message? How can people get one main thing out of it and then leave? And so that's where those short speeches. So like to give you an example, one I haven't shared in forever was Russell Wilson. You guys know the quarterback in the NFL? He played for me in Gastonia. And literally the first night I had all the players come down from the roof and to high five the fans coming out to the field. And I said, guys, just hey, high five. The fans get on the field, we're going to start in lineup. So I'm up on the roof and like batting first for the Gastoni Grizzlies from NC State, number one, Russell Wilson. He goes down batting second from Clemson. And each one goes down and I'm up on the roof and I see all the players on the field except for Russell Wilson. So finally I see everyone on the field except Russell. So I go down onto the grandstand, I see he's way out in the left field, grandstand. He was high fiving every single kid in the stadium. He was 22 years old and he knew what mattered. It was high fiving every fan more than getting out of the field. And I just think about moments like that, guys, we're doing something so much bigger than just putting on a show. It's how we make people feel. You put yourself as that five year old kid, that seven year old kid that went to their first game and all you wanted was an autograph, you wanted a ball. You wanted to high five your favorite player. And how many times did you not get that? We can provide that every single day. And now you guys are even bigger, looked upon, even bigger than some of those major leaguers. Now we owe it to that, to that kid to do that. And so we just share these messages and examples. I'm in every morning.
- [69:12]
Sam Parr
Yeah, gave us the speech. I'm ready.
- [69:14]
Jesse Cole
Well, that wasn't, that wasn't my dance. I don't think I shared that one to guys. I don't think I've shared that one because it was back in Gastonia days. So you brought me back to that one.
- [69:22]
Tyler
So I'm in, man, I'm in.
- [69:24]
Sam Parr
Jesse, there's a, there's a quote that you remind me of. We can leave it on this, which is, this is John Wesley quote. And he says, light yourself on fire with passion and people will come from miles to watch you burn. And I feel like that's what you've done. Like you, you have lit yourself on fire with passion and you've done that with this thing that none of us even realize we wanted. And now millions of people want to come watch you guys burn. And I think that's, that's amazing.
- [69:46]
Jesse Cole
I got. Well, yeah, hopefully not the other burn way because some people probably do the baseball traditional is impurities. But I want you guys to see a show. I'm so impressed on how much you've known and how much you're able to talk about this, but for you to see it and see it from the beginning to the end and watch what goes into it. So just got to get mentally prepared, you know, get some good rest before that.
- [70:06]
Tyler
Well, God bless you. Thank you so much. We appreciate you coming on. This is, this has been an old.
- [70:09]
Jesse Cole
Timer, a lot of fun. Thank you guys. Seriously, really appreciate y'.
- [70:12]
Tyler
All. All right, that's it. That's a pod.
- [70:14]
Jesse Cole
I feel like I can rule the world I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like days off on a road let's travel never looking back.
- [70:24]
Tyler
Alright everyone, if you're listening to mfm, you probably want to make more money. Well, I want to tell you about a podcast you might want to check out. It's called the Sales Evangelist and it's hosted by Donald Kelly. Each week, Donald interviews the world's best sales experts who share their strategies to succeed in sales. They share actionable insights and stories that will encourage challenge and motivate you to hustle your way to the top. If you're someone looking to raise your income level, check out the Sales Evangelist. You can find it wherever you get your podcasts.