Michael Jackson’s Plastic Surgeries (with Rob Haze) RE-RELEASE

Summary

Podcast Summary: "My Momma Told Me" – Michael Jackson’s Plastic Surgeries (with Rob Haze) RE-RELEASE

Date: March 5, 2026
Host(s): Langston Kerman, David Gborie
Guest: Rob Hayes
Main Theme:
Exploring the enduring conspiracy theory: "Did Michael Jackson ever get unnecessary plastic surgeries?" Comedians dive deep into the many rumors, social implications, and Black cultural context around Michael Jackson’s transformation, with Rob Hayes offering a unique—and humorous—take.

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Episode Overview

This episode features comedian and writer Rob Hayes, who brings forward an unconventional conspiracy from his childhood: "Michael Jackson never got unnecessary surgeries." What starts as a playful exploration quickly evolves into a nuanced discussion about Michael Jackson’s changing appearance, the realities of fame and Blackness, and the intersection of rumors, medical explanations, and cultural myths. As always, the My Momma Told Me crew infuse the episode with their trademark humor, authenticity, and critical Black cultural lens.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nostalgia: College Experiences & Celebrity Sightings (02:26–16:15)

• The hosts and Rob reminisce about celebrities and musical guests at their respective colleges, highlighting generational shifts and the significance of concerts and performances for young Black students.
• They joke about missing out on seeing Dr. Umar at the University of Michigan and reflect on generational inside jokes around Black cultural figures.

2. Black TV & Childhood Memories (11:00–20:00)

• Remembering Black sitcoms, UPN and WB, and figures like Dougie Doug and Urkel—a warm tribute to the impact of Black television and how cultural touchstones shape identity and humor.

3. The Power of Conspiracy Theories

• David and Langston riff on the podcast’s mission: “We’re here to prove all of the possibilities of the world.” (04:36)
• Jokingly recognize that sometimes conspiracies reflect deep-seated cultural longings or suspicions, especially in the Black community.

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4. Rob’s Conspiracy: "Michael Jackson Only Had One Surgery" (24:00–31:29)

• Rob’s Claim: Rob shares that he believes, or wants to believe, that Michael Jackson only ever had one plastic surgery—his first nose job, supposedly “to hit higher notes” (35:25).
• The Source: This belief was seeded in his youth and influenced by his father, who thought Michael invented "vitiligo" as a cover-up for skin bleaching (26:53).
• AI & Debunked Images: Rob admits that many resurfaced MJ images online are AI-altered (25:02), but these still feed conspiracy communities.
• Memorable Quote:
  • "Sometimes I'll get like...I would believe them if they had separated them, but all the videos I get are like, nah, it's one thing. It's like he didn't bleach his skin and he didn't have any unnecessary surgery. And it's like that's a lot to tackle in one video, bro." — Rob Hayes (25:49)

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5. Medical and Cultural Context: Vitiligo, Lupus, and Fame (26:27–31:29)

• The hosts break down the legitimate medical explanations for Michael’s changing skin—discussing the infamous Pepsi fire accident (26:27), lupus, and the realities of vitiligo.
• Big Question: What if MJ had come out as having vitiligo? Would fans and the media have treated him differently?
• Quote: “He could have Winnie Harlowed that shit.” — Langston Kerman (45:56)
• The conversation turns to empathy for the pressures Jackson faced, both as a global superstar and as a Black man navigating unprecedented celebrity (47:50).

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6. Rumors vs. Evidence: Timeline of Surgeries (44:44–52:59)

• Langston presents a detailed, sourced list of confirmed/plausible MJ surgeries from the early ‘80s to the 2000s (44:43 onwards), including nose jobs, cheek and chin augmentations, eyelid/lip surgery, Botox, skin grafts, and more.
• The crew discusses the context of each change, lightheartedly suggesting his evolving sound and dance moves benefited from surgeries (52:36).
• Quote:
  • "It's often painted as, this man wanted to be a white man...I don't see it like that." – Rob Hayes (76:18)

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7. Fame, Identity, and Blackness (48:12–51:33)

• Exploration of how Michael’s transformations could also be a physical manifestation of his changing psyche, extreme fame, and need to separate himself from his origins.
• The podcast delves into how the ‘80s demanded superhuman personas from Black icons and didn’t always allow for vulnerability or transparency.

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8. Defending Artists' Privacy: Prince Documentary Tangent (65:15–74:54)

• Spirited tangent about Prince, art, and privacy: Should the private pains of Black icons be public knowledge?
• They reveal Prince’s estate blocked an in-depth documentary, sparking a back-and-forth on the ethics and impact of controlling one’s own legacy.
• Quote:
  • "If you can do that, you deserve that privacy. You deserve to go into whatever afterlife exists for you, knowing that, like, you beat the game." – Langston Kerman (68:13)

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9. The Podcast Medium and the Culture of Gossip (75:31–75:53)

• Self-aware reflection on podcasting as modern gossip:
  • "I hate to say this on this medium, a lot of that is cause [of] podcasting. How much of this is just gossip?" — David Gborie & Langston Kerman

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10. Final Reflection: Michael Jackson’s Change is More Than Self-Hatred (75:59–76:28)

• The hosts conclude that MJ’s evolving appearance can’t be reduced simply to self-hatred or a desire to be white—a more complex intersection of trauma, expectation, illness, and self-perception.
• Quote:
  • "I do think there maybe is a more complicated reasoning behind the surgeries than just self-hatred, the way that it's often been painted." – Langston Kerman (75:59)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Rob Hayes on MJ’s Impact:
  • "Everything about his style would have gotten him literally murdered. And Gary, Indiana." (28:08)
• On the Pepsi Accident’s Role:
  • "The Pepsi commercial...triggers his lupus...that's what causes some of the discoloration..." (26:27)
• MJ’s Unmatched Change:
  • "Has anyone ever done a bigger change?" – David Gborie (40:47)
• On Generational Relatability:
  • "He was a God, and he could not show that vulnerability as a God." – Langston Kerman (51:33)
• On Prince’s Escape:
  • "He set out to keep his world private. Despite being arguably the most talented human being that's ever walked the face of the earth...he beat the game, bro." – Langston Kerman (68:00)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Conspiracy Stated: 24:00
• Rob’s Childhood & Father’s Take: 26:53
• Medical Explanations & Cultural Pressure: 26:27–31:29
• Detailed Surgeries Timeline: 44:44–52:59
• Complexity of Fame and Identity: 48:12–51:33
• Prince Documentary Debate: 65:15–74:54
• Final Thoughts: 75:59–76:28

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Conclusion

The episode delivers a freewheeling yet heartfelt exploration of why conspiracy theories circulate about Michael Jackson’s appearance, the medical vs. myth explanations, and the cultural context of icon-creation in Black America. Ultimately, the hosts and Rob Hayes move the conversation from “how many surgeries?” to “why do we care, and what do these stories really reflect about our longing for Black icons, perfection, or vulnerability?”

Tone: Irreverent, self-aware, and smartly comedic with moments of real empathy and cultural insight.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:
You’ll leave with a deeper understanding of the complexities behind Michael Jackson’s choices—far beyond “did he or didn’t he?”—and plenty of laughs along the way.

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Listen for:

• Hilarious breakdowns of ‘80s/‘90s Black pop culture
• Dissections of Black conspiracy theory logic
• Big-hearted (but never naive) looks at the humanity of icons

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Check Out:

• Rob Hayes’ podcast "The Inconsistent Podcast"
• David Gborie’s comedy special "Birth of a Nation"
• Langston Kerman on social media and the My Momma Told Me YouTube channel

Transcript

[Langston Kerman]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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Guaranteed Human.

[Langston Kerman]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

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[Langston Kerman]

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[Rob Hayes]

It does that, too.

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Yeah, it's WI fi that is so smart, it makes everything work better together.

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Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back.

[Langston Kerman]

Xfinity.

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[David Bore]

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Every Lenovo is built to let them go. Let them work and rework. Let them animate a dinosaur.

[Langston Kerman]

No.

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A toaster. No. A hamster and a jetpack.

[David Bore]

Fun.

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Let them put golden wings on a dog.

[Rob Hayes]

Good boy.

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Let them color correct anywhere and everywhere. Let them make. Powered by Intel Core Ultra processors, Lenovo gives creatives everything they need. Lenovo.com let creatives create Lenovo.

[Rob Hayes]

Lenovo.

[Langston Kerman]

Yellowstone is, oh, right, just a massive super volcano that if it explodes, will literally wipe out, like, our entire country. And on average, it explodes every, like 6,000 years. And we are past the window of that happening. And it could just happen at any time. And that. That makes me terrified.

[David Bore]

No sweet release.

[Langston Kerman]

That's the thing. If it was gonna, like, just wipe us out, I'd be chilling. But I think it's. What it's gonna do is, like, blow up and just spread, like, the type of ash that, like, kills you very slowly.

[Rob Hayes]

Oh, right.

[David Bore]

Cause I've heard people talk about, like, even, like, when Mount St. Helens blew, how it was crazy. But if it's like a super volcano. Cause that's what. That's what you die. You suffocate from the ash in the air. Ultimately, yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

Maybe Zelensky knows when it's gonna blow. He's like, you'll see. Yeah, you'll see. You have this big ocean, but you super volcano, you'll feel this soon. You don't tell us what we're gonna feel.

[David Bore]

We'll feel it when we wanna be talking loud. Say thank you. Say thank you to me. The government growing babies. Microchips in

[Langston Kerman]

all koala bears are racist.

[David Bore]

The ozone lair owes me money. Marching, defended, turkey, stuffing. Y' all can't tell me nothing. At night I dream of you I want to be your lady, baby. Welcome, little mamas and gentiles alike, to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told

[Langston Kerman]

Me, the podcast, where we dive deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy

[David Bore]

theories and finally work to prove the conspiracies. We gotta figure that last part out.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I guess.

[David Bore]

Is it? Cause it's not of them. This is Rob's.

[Langston Kerman]

I think it's of everybody. We're so happy you're here. We've already broken the.

[David Bore]

That was a terrible introduction.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, it wasn't really an introduction. We didn't even finish our J Plural, man. Yeah. I think we are here to prove all of the possibilities of the world. I think that is. That is objectively what's true. Is it the best way to say it? I don't know yet. But I do think that that's what we're here hoping to prove.

[David Bore]

I like that.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

I'm into that. You know what I've been thinking? Yeah. I'm just. You know what I've been thinking?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. You always set it up so poorly.

[David Bore]

I want them to know what we're doing.

[Langston Kerman]

I want them to see how the little game happens.

[David Bore]

I want them to see how much work goes into making that delicious treat.

[Langston Kerman]

Come.

[David Bore]

They like to eat once a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

Twice a week.

[Langston Kerman]

Twice a week. Once a week. Twice a week.

[David Bore]

Once a week. Twice a Week. Whenever you listen to it. You know what I've been thinking?

[Rob Hayes]

Yes, please.

[David Bore]

I think Dr. Umar's doing a press run because he's finally getting ready to open that school.

[Rob Hayes]

Whoa.

[David Bore]

That's what I think.

[Rob Hayes]

Did you see him speak in, like, he was at a school?

[Langston Kerman]

University of Michigan.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

My alma mater.

[David Bore]

You should have gone. I wish.

[Langston Kerman]

I wish I'd have known. I would have bought a plane today.

[Rob Hayes]

And he was like. What was he like? Black queens forever? And the whole crowd was like, snowbody's newer. He, like, found his audience. It was crazy.

[Langston Kerman]

I love that.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Crazy.

[Langston Kerman]

Because I did not know n were like, that tapped into him, like, in catchphrase form at 18. Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

I thought it was, like, our joke. I didn't know, like, younger kids are, like, joking about this now.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, that's my question is, do you think they were joking?

[Rob Hayes]

I think there's winks between them.

[Langston Kerman]

Yes.

[Rob Hayes]

I think some people there probably were finding truth. Like, we're laughing, but the niggas got some good points. There's other people that are like, that was hilarious. I have a test to study for.

[David Bore]

That would be a great college experience. I feel like Dr. Umar spoke.

[Langston Kerman]

I remember so many people that they had come perform at our concert at our school.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I would have replaced any one of them with Dr. Umar.

[David Bore]

You have any good ones?

[Langston Kerman]

They had amazing ones. Janelle Monae back during, like, the robot games.

[David Bore]

Yeah, that was big. That's a good time to get.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, we.

[David Bore]

That's a good Janelle Monae.

[Langston Kerman]

Big Sean before Big Sean became Big Sean. So, like, on some real, like, hungry. Selling it. But we also knew he had already been tapped by Kanye. He just wasn't.

[David Bore]

That's an exciting guy to have at your school.

[Rob Hayes]

That's when Big Sean was doing individual merch for every school he went to and stuff.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Bore]

Damn.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah. I remember his website. And he had a thing. He was like, I am finally famous. And you write in, and then maybe he'd put you up on the blog. And I'm like, one a year in the comedy. And I wrote and he shot, like, opening for Ronnie Jordan and how, like, I am finally fam. It's so embarrassing.

[Langston Kerman]

Hoping Big Sean was gonna repost that permanent. Make that permanent.

[David Bore]

He ain't pick you, though.

[Rob Hayes]

Nah, he didn't pick me up. I went to the University of Georgia. We had conflict free Chrisette Michelle.

[Langston Kerman]

Whoa, whoa.

[David Bore]

Really?

[Rob Hayes]

We had Trey Songz. We had t Pain.

[David Bore]

Damn.

[Rob Hayes]

We had Godfrey. He didn't tell us James Avery was gay. He just Kept that in the tuck in 07, you know.

[Langston Kerman]

He really got in trouble, huh? People were really mad at Godfrey.

[David Bore]

People were really mad at him.

[Langston Kerman]

They're furious at Godfrey for that. I thought that I had always treated that as relatively common knowledge.

[Rob Hayes]

I thought that was the cat that was out of the bag and, like, just a rumor that people had been saying. And. Yeah, I don't know what point of an interview gets to that. Like, I've been interviewed several times, and I've never gotten to the point where it's like, but tell us about Uncle Phil.

[David Bore]

Yeah, to the point of, like, you know, who's gay?

[Rob Hayes]

What was he promoted when he, like, got to a point where they're like, all right, man, come on, you gotta come clean. Uncle Phil. What was he into?

[David Bore]

Yeah, you're the one to come clean, Godfrey. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

You didn't decide.

[David Bore]

We gotta ask you.

[Langston Kerman]

We didn't ask you.

[David Bore]

Did they ever meet?

[Rob Hayes]

I don't know.

[Langston Kerman]

I can't imagine.

[Rob Hayes]

The story was weird. That was the other thing. The story wasn't like I walked in on James Avery having sex. It wasn't like, hey, I was doing voice work for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I was like, whoa, Shredder. Like, it wasn't like that. It was just like, I went to the Gospel Awards, and he was using his hands a lot.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I don't think that's it, man.

[Rob Hayes]

He said confirmed.

[David Bore]

I think he might just be kind.

[Langston Kerman]

I think he's from the theater.

[Rob Hayes]

Like, a motive, right?

[Langston Kerman]

I think he's, like, a talented actor.

[Rob Hayes]

He just seen someone he hadn't seen in a long time.

[David Bore]

Also, I've seen Godfrey use his hands a lot.

[Langston Kerman]

Uh oh.

[Rob Hayes]

Uh oh.

[Langston Kerman]

The rumor mill has started, folks. We don't run from it here at My Mama Told Me.

[David Bore]

That's what it's for.

[Langston Kerman]

Our guest today, you've already heard him tell phenomenal stories about Godfrey and the. He's a hilarious comedian, a dear friend. We love him so much on this podcast. You've seen him on the Tonight Show. You've seen him on Comedy Central. He currently is writing for a brand new show called Lil Kev that you can watch everywhere Now.

[Rob Hayes]

It's available bets everywhere.

[Bowen Yang]

Come on.

[Langston Kerman]

I meant that they're all out. All the episodes.

[Rob Hayes]

All the episodes are out.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, you can watch Lil Kev on bet. He's the best. Give it up for Rob Hayes, ladies. Feel the rhythm, feel the rhyme.

[David Bore]

Get on up.

[Rob Hayes]

Oh, yeah. Shout out Dougie Dugg. Yeah, shout out Dougie.

[Langston Kerman]

People, don't shout him out enough. In what?

[David Bore]

A run. Cool runnings. That darn cat.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

Cosby.

[David Bore]

Cosby, yeah. He was on the, like, when it was just the show without show.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, it was just.

[Langston Kerman]

He was the number two on that, I believe.

[David Bore]

Oh, I didn't even know.

[Rob Hayes]

Above Phylicia Rashad?

[Langston Kerman]

No.

[Rob Hayes]

That's sad.

[Langston Kerman]

Was she in the second run of Cosby?

[Rob Hayes]

It's Bill Cosby, Phylicia Rashad and Dougie Doug. Oh, okay.

[David Bore]

But they're not the Huxtables.

[Rob Hayes]

Like, completely different. They're not old people.

[David Bore]

Are they still in Brooklyn?

[Rob Hayes]

I don't know where they are. I know Busta Rhymes is in an episode.

[Langston Kerman]

I want to say they were in Philly.

[Rob Hayes]

They might have been in Philly. It was on CBS at a time where I didn't go over there.

[David Bore]

No, I. Man. Because all there was was, like, Becker. Like Jag.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Bore]

CBS did not have anything.

[Rob Hayes]

I remember maybe Walker, Texas Ranger, Nash Bridges, maybe.

[David Bore]

I watched that shit on pax.

[Rob Hayes]

Okay.

[David Bore]

Remember pax?

[Rob Hayes]

Okay.

[David Bore]

If you didn't have cable, it was like. It was like a pseudo Christian channel.

[Rob Hayes]

Like, it was PAX in Atlanta. They played Hawks games. That's how bad the Hawks were on pax.

[Langston Kerman]

They were basically Christian basketball.

[Rob Hayes]

You can watch basketball movie and then

[David Bore]

watch Touched by an Angel. Yeah, PAX was trash.

[Langston Kerman]

Damn.

[Rob Hayes]

I like, when PAX first dropped, they had, like, Knight Rider and, like, some cool stuff.

[David Bore]

And then they were, like, transferred to being inspirational. Like, a little later, early pass, they

[Rob Hayes]

got highway to Heaven. They was like, yo, man, we found our niche.

[Langston Kerman]

I don't know what our. I. I guess we. We. I never had to go through the Christian channel enough.

[Rob Hayes]

Ygn, y' all didn't need pac.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, you're right.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. UPN was a regular ass channel. And in that way, you avoid a lot of, like, the heartbreak that would have come from.

[Rob Hayes]

Right.

[David Bore]

We had UPN to. UPN was the go to, I feel like, for years. And then the WB secondary, I was

[Langston Kerman]

abc, then upn and then, like, abc.

[David Bore]

Like TGI Friday. Man. That was good.

[Langston Kerman]

And that, you know, there were enough. This was back when they would, like, replay episodes throughout the week.

[Rob Hayes]

Right, right. A lot of those shows were syndicated.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, you got to watch a little bit of Urkel on Friday. But you could watch Urkel a few more other days. Yeah, it was nice.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

But Friday got a new Urkel.

[Langston Kerman]

Got that new Urkel.

[David Bore]

Yeah, He's a robot on Friday. He's a Bruce Lee. I remember that Bruce Lee. That was, like, the most excited, I think I was for An Urkel as like. I remember thinking about it, like, the week up.

[Rob Hayes]

Right.

[David Bore]

You know, because it'd be like on an all new Family Matters, Urkel's going Chinese or whatever this.

[Langston Kerman]

I was waiting to see how they pitched it. Yeah.

[David Bore]

I wasn't sure how I was gonna handle it. I realized I had dug a hole for myself.

[Rob Hayes]

I forgot about that because, like, yeah, no, Malcolm and Eddie. When they announced that, like, Eddie Griffith was gonna do Prince, it was like a whole buildup. And I remember like, oh, man, I can't wait to see how he ends up being Prince.

[Langston Kerman]

It's so crazy.

[David Bore]

And how Malcolm's gonna hate.

[Rob Hayes]

Right, Right.

[David Bore]

We're not supposed to have Prince in a tow truck. Wasn't that the premise of that show?

[Rob Hayes]

They had a tow truck.

[Langston Kerman]

Restaurant.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, it was like a restaurant club, bar, slash.

[David Bore]

Oh, it was. Malcolm and Eddie had a tow truck. Cause he was always making jokes about stuff he had in a truck.

[Langston Kerman]

It was a restaurant slash, mechanic's office, One stop shop. Like, they really were like. That's literally what the episodes would be, remember, is that somebody would drop their car off to Eddie and be like, I need you to fix my car. And he'd be like, shit, I can't fix that car. You gotta go chill in the restaurant.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

And then Mary J. Blige would walk

[David Bore]

in the restaurant, like, what's wrong with that guy?

[Langston Kerman]

He's not a good mechanic. Why the fuck are you here?

[David Bore]

That would be how they got you in the week too, though. Was like, on an allnew. Malcolm and Eddie, guess who's stopping by? And then she's just like doing Real

[Rob Hayes]

Love with their eyes closed.

[David Bore]

Cause I remember thinking that, Like, I remember always thinking. I was like, musicians have music videos. They're obviously incredible actors. Like, I would want to see them in more stuff. Yeah, I saw Fast and Furious. Cause of Ja Rule.

[Rob Hayes]

I was disappointed.

[David Bore]

They fucked us.

[Langston Kerman]

So he was a big pull for you.

[Rob Hayes]

Prominent in the trailer. The trailer makes it seem like it's his movie.

[David Bore]

The trailer does all the things that he does.

[Rob Hayes]

People think it's his family. You think it's the Rule family. And then it's the Rule family.

[David Bore]

The first scene is like, oh, no.

[Rob Hayes]

And it's like, you don't see him anymore. It's like, yo, who are these beige people?

[David Bore]

He says three things in that movie. He says three things in that movie. He says. And you're like, this is about to be an Oscar worthy performance.

[Langston Kerman]

Ja Rules. Laughing.

[David Bore]

He's such a good actor. And then he says, Monica,

[Langston Kerman]

isn't it that he. He races Vin Diesel and loses?

[Rob Hayes]

Is that a girl walks up in the first race, right?

[David Bore]

Yes. A girl walks up, though. She says, you know, you. She's. I remember this so well. She's like, you know, if you win, you could have all of this. Or if you lose, you could have this anyways, but if you win, you get her too. And then she takes his hand and puts it on her titty.

[Langston Kerman]

Holy shit.

[David Bore]

And that's why when he kicks on the nos, he says minaj.

[Rob Hayes]

Because they had to be clear.

[Langston Kerman]

I bet they got a note where they were like, it's not clear if he gets the fucker. At the same time, I like the

[Rob Hayes]

world where they added that scene to make him say a menage makes sense. And then they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we gotta fix that.

[Langston Kerman]

Hey, man, we've studied car races. That's not like a traditional Yale. Can you do it again? He's like, nah, nah, nah.

[David Bore]

I like to think he said, like five other things that didn't make sense

[Rob Hayes]

to menage was what they had to build it on.

[David Bore]

Jarabunga.

[Langston Kerman]

Yo, you can't say that.

[David Bore]

Ja Rule three ways.

[Rob Hayes]

Not the same girl.

[David Bore]

Girl guy.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I did not remember Ja Rule's heavily featured appearance in the trailer. But you're right, he does. They kill him off from the entire fucking. Because they didn't bring him back in the trailer.

[Rob Hayes]

They never brought him back. He's in the world. He exists in the world.

[David Bore]

His name is Edwin.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, they really hurt you.

[David Bore]

That's why I saw the movie.

[Langston Kerman]

You have such a feeling it's so permanent for you.

[Rob Hayes]

Paul Walker and Vin Diesel got me through. And driving under trucks for DVD players. Like, I got through it, but I

[Langston Kerman]

miss when they were just.

[David Bore]

But I wanted.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, it was better.

[Rob Hayes]

Imagine going to space and it starts with you stealing the DVD player.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, that's really the American dream.

[David Bore]

That's what they sold us. That could happen in America.

[Langston Kerman]

That's not what happened with Buzz Aldri. He wasn't stealing fucking eight tracks.

[Rob Hayes]

They were like, hey, that man need to go to space.

[Langston Kerman]

You think you can hold your breath?

[David Bore]

Also the DVD thing, stealing DVDs didn't make sense. Cause even when that movie came out, they already had like DVD players at Walmart.

[Langston Kerman]

Right.

[David Bore]

Like, he was already like a commodity that had been.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, that movie had me looking under cars for the longest to see, like, when is there. I'm gonna see a truck that doesn't have a tire under it. Yeah. Cause Most big ass 18 wheel trucks have at least one tire underneath, you know.

[Langston Kerman]

And you're saying somehow they've only. They found trucks.

[Rob Hayes]

They found trucks that you could drive a whole car underneath.

[Langston Kerman]

No doubt.

[David Bore]

Also a lot of nos. I had never heard about nos.

[Rob Hayes]

I didn't know about nos.

[Langston Kerman]

That became a street car.

[Rob Hayes]

It became an energy drink.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, it did become an energy drink.

[David Bore]

Yeah. For poor people. Do you want the effects of nos? Do you want the effects of nos? But you ain't got a driver's drone license.

[Rob Hayes]

Do you think they're separate energy drinks for rich people? I feel like we all got the same energy drinks.

[David Bore]

No, I think they're separate everything for rich people.

[Rob Hayes]

You think so? I think rich energy drinks is like an espresso. But like, I feel like we don't

[David Bore]

feel like there's juice here.

[Rob Hayes]

Crunk juice. It's for everybody.

[Langston Kerman]

I think Celsius for a while was in much more privatized spaces.

[Rob Hayes]

Oh yeah, that's real.

[Langston Kerman]

And I think you and your friends were drinking crunk juice for some time.

[David Bore]

See how he does that?

[Langston Kerman]

He said that.

[Rob Hayes]

Cause I'm from Atlanta though, right?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. And. Cause you weren't drinking Celsius.

[Rob Hayes]

Okay. All right.

[Langston Kerman]

I think the remaining. But I think both are true.

[Rob Hayes]

Every like little waiting room in Atlanta had a crunk juice fridge, man.

[David Bore]

So they really tried to get behind it in a real way.

[Langston Kerman]

I think I've seen crunch juice three times in my life.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah. I don't think I ever. It was like readily available. It was like, you know how you go other places and there's like cucumbers and water. It'd be a little crunch juice. Freeze.

[David Bore]

That's crazy. I didn't know.

[Langston Kerman]

He's got crunk juice on tap and sparkling.

[David Bore]

A room temp.

[Langston Kerman]

Like a hot crunch juice, please.

[David Bore]

Was it good?

[Rob Hayes]

It was just like Red Bull or any other thing, you know, except for like endorsed by Lil Jon.

[David Bore]

Damn.

[Langston Kerman]

I think. And this is my own negative judgment, I would have expected it to be sweet, like much.

[Rob Hayes]

It's probably a little like. They did have flavors, I think. And they were like. It was probably worse for you for some reason. Sure.

[David Bore]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

I think it's all that crumb.

[Rob Hayes]

Probably got some poison in there or something.

[Langston Kerman]

You know, I'm not supposed to drink all that crumb.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah. That's too much crumb. Yeah. Is this hat racist yours?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

I want a hat of the. The Sun's mascot, which is a gorilla for some reason. Duncan. A basketball.

[Langston Kerman]

And you're a black man proudly wearing A gorilla on your hat.

[Rob Hayes]

I can't believe they made it. I can't believe, like, it passed like

[David Bore]

a lot of people.

[Rob Hayes]

Unfortunately, the Trump administration has put a lot on the docket that we haven't gotten around to.

[Langston Kerman]

I think we don't worry about that no more.

[Rob Hayes]

This hat. But I think in the right window of time, this hat would have been out of the paint, dog.

[David Bore]

I think it is crazy.

[Langston Kerman]

It's n. I think in a fucking. In a. In a truly egalitarian world, the gorilla would have been eliminated by now.

[Rob Hayes]

It's crazy.

[David Bore]

It doesn't make any sense.

[Rob Hayes]

It's been around so long. It's really crazy.

[David Bore]

There's no gorillas in Phoenix.

[Langston Kerman]

There's no gorillas related.

[David Bore]

It's just. They just wanted to make a monkey.

[Langston Kerman]

They were like, no black people playing basketball. Monkey.

[David Bore]

Damn. Phoenix.

[Langston Kerman]

A monkey in a Jersey. Let's see if they'll let that. Let us do that.

[David Bore]

That's the place that it would go through, though.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, yeah. Where it's like, all right, who's gonna vote against it? We don't live there.

[Rob Hayes]

It's gotta be awkward when the gorilla guy, like, takes his stuff off and, like, you know, might make eye contact with, like, KD or something and just look like, hey, dude, I gotta make money somehow, man. I know what it is, you know, like, don't judge me.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

They should have just got. They could have got anything.

[Rob Hayes]

They could have got anything.

[David Bore]

They could have really been anything that

[Rob Hayes]

lives in the desert.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

Darn it.

[Langston Kerman]

You can do cats now.

[Rob Hayes]

You can do a ge.

[Langston Kerman]

Just do a sun head. Just do a thing.

[Rob Hayes]

Here's the thing.

[David Bore]

Mascots are. I think they gritty is one thing, but I think for the most part, the better. Mascots are, like, sexier now. Like, a sun is too. Is too cumbersome. You mean just the head and then a regular body?

[Langston Kerman]

You can do whatever you want with the body. The premise is son.

[David Bore]

Right, Right.

[Langston Kerman]

All you have to do is have a head. That's interesting. You do what you could do with a gritty body.

[David Bore]

You know what I would do? I would make it a cool guy named Red Ray. Yeah. Cause the sun rays. And he's got sunglasses on.

[Langston Kerman]

I got you. He dressed like Raphael Sadiq.

[David Bore]

Wow. No, that's not at all.

[Rob Hayes]

That's Ray Ray. Yeah. He just got a little.

[Langston Kerman]

Just a cool nigga. He smoke a long cigarette and then dunk a basketball. Rob, you came to us today with a conspiracy, and we eventually have to talk conspiracy theory at some point, but you came to us with a conspiracy. I personally have never heard anybody say before.

[Rob Hayes]

Me either.

[David Bore]

This is exciting, though.

[Langston Kerman]

This feels very personal in a way that I'm excited to hear you unpack. You said, my mama told me Michael Jackson never got unnecessary surgery.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Tell us everything you know and believe I am.

[Rob Hayes]

Okay, so, as you guys know, I keep a lot of knowledge about music and stuff to the point where the algorithm just speeds me. Stuff. If there's ever a new resurfaced video of Michael Jackson, it will hit my feed first. Okay. Wow.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Rob Hayes]

That's a lot of work.

[Langston Kerman]

You're a first responder for Michael Jackson videos.

[David Bore]

I'm like that with cartoon ass.

[Rob Hayes]

There's never been a time where, like, somebody sent me a Michael Jackson video and then I've been like, oh, I never seen this one before. It's normally like, oh, yeah, I've seen that. Look at this part. You know? So I've been starting to get truther. Michael Jackson content coming to me.

[Langston Kerman]

Whoa.

[Rob Hayes]

Now, I will. I will tell you that I found out earlier today. Some of the pictures that I've been getting have been doctored. Have been doctored by AI.

[David Bore]

How did you find. How did you find out?

[Rob Hayes]

Because I was, like. I was, like, making sure I didn't just make this up.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

But then I. Oh, man. There are people that are out here debunking some of the stuff.

[Langston Kerman]

You know how I pictured it when you said it? I pictured your wife whispering it in your ear. Like that man did for George Bush when he found out about 9 11.

[David Bore]

About 9 11. She gave him a. He lost the Taos. Second photo isn't real.

[Langston Kerman]

Second photo isn't real.

[Rob Hayes]

So the thing is, sometimes I'll get the like. Like, I would believe him if they had separated them, but all the videos I get are like, nah, it's one thing. It's like he didn't bleach his skin and he didn't have any unnecessary surgery. And it's like, that's a lot to tackle in one video, bro.

[Langston Kerman]

You're.

[David Bore]

What's the Instagram limit?

[Rob Hayes]

Like, three minutes?

[David Bore]

Yeah, come on. I need at least 10.

[Rob Hayes]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

To really cover that in a more substantive way.

[David Bore]

Yeah, there's nothing.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

So there's people that believe that. Okay. Michael Jackson, the fire, the Pepsi commercial. Right.

[David Bore]

Which is, like, triggered his mid-80s.

[Rob Hayes]

His lupus. Yeah, yeah. This is like 84, early 84 triggered his lupus. And then basically that's what causes, like, some of the, like, red discoloration that you see in his skin. And then after that, he also has Villa Ligo, which my father told me he made up. My father didn't believe Villa Ligo was a thing.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, he didn't believe.

[David Bore]

Oh, your father thought he was my dad.

[Langston Kerman]

He didn't believe in the premise of vitiligo.

[David Bore]

He said, that's not a real disease.

[Rob Hayes]

He was like, michael Jackson. Like. Cause when you're a kid, you're like. You're looking at Michael Jackson.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

And then your parents are either like, he's black, or you're like, oh, man. Like, he's white. And then your parents are cracking up or whatever. Yeah. So, yeah, my parents had. We had that discussion. I'm like, well, what happened? How did he end up like this? And my dad's like, he made up some disease. Villa Lago or something. I don't know. And then. So I always, like, remember that in my head, like, oh, man, Michael Jackson's so powerful. He made up a disease.

[David Bore]

That's how you thought about it, Was like, he's so powerful.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

You're a psychopath.

[David Bore]

The man didn't move for 13. You don't think he can make up a disease? Come on.

[Rob Hayes]

He walked backwards. Glitter socks. They don't sell them at Walmart.

[David Bore]

That's true. That was a crazy thing to come out with. Like, glitter sock technology is pretty cool. Come on.

[Langston Kerman]

Just the high socks alone was such a dangerous decision.

[David Bore]

Also, he's wearing those, like, captain's tassels on his shoulders.

[Rob Hayes]

And he's walking with an army of people.

[David Bore]

Come on.

[Langston Kerman]

Everything about his style. Everything about his style would have gotten him literally murdered. And Gary, Indiana.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

He found a way to.

[David Bore]

He's just like a S M motorcycle. Motorcycle. Motorcycler.

[Langston Kerman]

Like, that's something at the motorcycle itself.

[David Bore]

No, no, he just had, like, bondage gear on.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. He looked insane and bad. That's a crazy outfit.

[Rob Hayes]

A lot of weights.

[David Bore]

Yeah. Straps everywhere.

[Langston Kerman]

No, he did the impossible. And so you believe the disease could have been more proof of his imagination.

[Rob Hayes]

Right, right. But then later, people were saying he bleached his skin. And then I find these videos saying he didn't bleach his skin.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, there was a pretty big window of time in between you finding these videos and everything else you knew.

[Rob Hayes]

Right, right, right.

[Langston Kerman]

I think you really rushed that middle part. And I would say that was all of your adult years.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I would say the big chunk that you skipped over was all the years of just common sense building over time.

[Rob Hayes]

I wanted to believe it.

[David Bore]

I think that's It.

[Rob Hayes]

I think they knew that deep down there, some people that wanted to be like, Michael Jackson woke up one day and was like, what happened to me? Oh, my God. Oh, man. I gotta call Liz Taylor and tell her, like, I'm different.

[Langston Kerman]

Those people scare me. Anybody else? Because, look, I love Michael Jackson. I do not. I recognize that at the very least, what he was doing was completely unhealthy and inappropriate with those children. What scale it went to is not anything I'll ever know. And I think, frankly, any of us will ever know. Right? I think objectively he did bad things with those kids just by spending the type of time he was spending with them.

[David Bore]

You don't want any grown man hanging out with your kids for sleepovers.

[Langston Kerman]

No, it's nasty. That's a nasty, weird thing to do. Chill out, right?

[David Bore]

Like, regardless of what their childhood was, or it's just like, that's like a line.

[Langston Kerman]

I. I cannot undo my relationship with the music, with the. The sort of joy that. That he represented for me. So Michael Jackson remains. I'm sorry. That said, the. The idea that you. You are so wanting him to be extreme, a God that you pretend he didn't fuck up. His nose fell off.

[David Bore]

I think he's just. Some people's Trump.

[Langston Kerman]

We've seen it.

[David Bore]

I think he was like, I think that's true. I think the same way some people just. Trump can't do anything wrong. I think he can't.

[Rob Hayes]

He's trying to hit notes. One surgery. That's all I give you. One surgery.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, that's it.

[Rob Hayes]

That's it.

[David Bore]

What about late Michael, though?

[Rob Hayes]

What you mean, like, they don't care about it? Maybe they didn't do it right.

[David Bore]

And then it just got lighter and lighter and light.

[Rob Hayes]

One surgery. That's all I give you.

[David Bore]

That's. Man, that's tough.

[Langston Kerman]

That's all you believe in, is one surgery.

[Rob Hayes]

One surgery.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay, let's talk about that.

[David Bore]

Yeah. What was the one surgery?

[Rob Hayes]

No, no, no.

[Langston Kerman]

Let's take a break.

[David Bore]

Oh, that's it.

[Langston Kerman]

Let's leave this on a cliffhanger. I believe that there was one surgery that changed everything for Michael Jackson. And everything else is just God, I suppose, doing what he does to the king of. Is that our argument?

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay. When we come back from this break, we are going to find out what that supposed surgery is. This is very exciting. A beautiful cliffhanger. We'll be back. More. Rob Hayes.

[David Bore]

More.

[Langston Kerman]

My Mama Told Me.

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[Langston Kerman]

No.

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A toaster. No. A hamster and a jetpack.

[Rob Hayes]

Fun.

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See full [e-mail].

[Langston Kerman]

We're not going to let Joe Biden

[Lenovo Advertiser]

and Kamala Harris cut America's meat.

[Rob Hayes]

That's dead on.

[Langston Kerman]

That.

[Rob Hayes]

Hey, yo, that's dead on.

[Langston Kerman]

It's almost like this guy has something to hide.

[David Bore]

We're back. We're back. That's it.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, Rob. Rob is still here. Rob is still trying to convince us.

[David Bore]

One surgery.

[Langston Kerman]

That Michael Jackson only had one surgery. Please, Rob, if you will tell us what that one surgery was.

[Rob Hayes]

He told us he had the one surgery so he could hit higher notes on his nose. He told Martin Bashir that when Martin Bashir went in his house unannounced and, you know, caused all these problems for my man Mike.

[Langston Kerman]

Martin Bashir. Bashir really acted up on that interview.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, yeah. You know, we didn't even ask for that. We just chilling. And then out of nowhere, it's like, I spent this time with Michael Jackson. Now we see him holding hands with some kid and stuff, climbing trees. We didn't need to see none of that.

[Langston Kerman]

We're all Michael Jackson.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

Come on, man. The British media, man, they know what they did. So, you know, like, basically, okay, Michael Jackson. Y' all know Icarus, right? Yeah. You can only go so close to the sun before you. You know what I'm saying? Your wings start melting. Michael Jackson seen heights we ain't never seen. That's true. He spun more than probably anybody's ever spun. Just like physically, right? So he probably. Some of that nose, some of that color got. Got went off in the spin, I bet.

[David Bore]

Oh, it's in the atmosphere.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, you think? He spun so fast that it. It literally just like.

[Rob Hayes]

Come on, man. Have we ever seen anybody else spin like that? Why did Barry Sanders quit early?

[Langston Kerman]

He was getting too light.

[David Bore]

It's getting too light. Am I looking lighter? You gotta stop. He said, I want to live in Detroit. That life. You're not the man I married. This game is ruining our family.

[Rob Hayes]

You don't even look like your son anymore.

[David Bore]

Barry, he said, you know me, I spin. That's what Barry does. What you want me to do, run straight Bitch, you married a spinner.

[Rob Hayes]

I just. I mean, come on, man. That's what I'm hoping.

[Langston Kerman]

Here's what I'm thinking.

[David Bore]

And I don't.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm not loving what you're saying so far, but it did introduce at least a challenge that I've never faced before. What was the first day that Mike came back that color?

[David Bore]

It had to be.

[Langston Kerman]

Wait.

[David Bore]

Yeah. Because you are a great timeline for this.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Bore]

What's the album timeline?

[Rob Hayes]

Okay. It's a bit.

[David Bore]

Cause Dangerous, he was all the way.

[Rob Hayes]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

Dangerous. He's all the way white.

[David Bore]

He's all the way white.

[Rob Hayes]

Right, right, right.

[David Bore]

And then what's the. Is bad.

[Rob Hayes]

The output before that Bad? Yeah. So it's between Thriller and Bad. Thriller comes out late 82. They shoot the videos in 83. The awards is 84.

[Langston Kerman]

And by thriller, he's already got a new nose, Right?

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Now, you don't have to acknowledge where that nose came from, but you do acknowledge that nose was not the nose we saw.

[Rob Hayes]

That's not the nose we started with.

[David Bore]

He's also making plays with the hair.

[Langston Kerman]

Yes.

[Rob Hayes]

I mean, that's just hair at the time.

[David Bore]

Right, right.

[Rob Hayes]

The hair just crazy to us because we grew up in a hip hop, high top fade era. But, like, that was hair at the time.

[David Bore]

That was 1985. A lot of baby hairs on bad.

[Langston Kerman]

I think it started to transition from any version of Africanized hair.

[David Bore]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

And started to transition into a fine Latina woman.

[David Bore]

Yeah. Some type of a Caribbean.

[Rob Hayes]

I'm not gonna let y' all do this. So, okay, so the pepsi shoot, early 84.

[David Bore]

Okay. Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

The hair's burnt, of course. So now you gotta start experimenting with wigs. They probably don't make Jheri curl wigs. You know what I'm saying?

[David Bore]

He would've had the money for the technology.

[Rob Hayes]

The hair texture might be different. And also, we don't know what grew back and what didn't grow back. You know, like, these are some of the secrets that Mike might have always had a bald spot after that, we really don't know.

[Langston Kerman]

That's fair.

[Rob Hayes]

You know what I'm saying?

[David Bore]

That is reasonable.

[Rob Hayes]

I will say, like, 85. When he gets the Grammy for We Are the World, he looked different in

[David Bore]

that We Are the World documentary. He definitely looks different now.

[Rob Hayes]

When they recorded We Are the World, that's somebody that we know. But then when he came back to get the Grammy, he looked different.

[Langston Kerman]

You know, the recording. He is. He is clearly still black, but he's doing a lot. It's starting to separate himself. That's how he from it. And then to your point, by the time they accept the award, that is a brand new person. Now, my issue is why. And maybe it just speaks to how talented this man was that he could come back a different color and everybody's just like, yeah, no, we accept that as Michael Jackson.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

I mean, he still came back strong as well, dawg.

[Langston Kerman]

But look how crazy. It couldn't exist. Nowadays, we constantly. Bro, we are calling Jamie Foxx a clone. And the nigga ain't changed one bit.

[David Bore]

It's a lot of freckles.

[Rob Hayes]

I mean, no, that's. That's true. Michael could come back a whole white

[Langston Kerman]

woman, and we'd be like, yeah, that's Michael Jackson. That's the most famous man that's ever lived.

[David Bore]

Has anyone ever done a bigger change?

[Langston Kerman]

Not at that scale.

[David Bore]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

Sammy Sosa, I would say, made a big.

[Rob Hayes]

Sammy Sosa.

[David Bore]

That was after the fact.

[Rob Hayes]

And it's the same. I don't think anybody's ever done something, you know what I'm saying? Like, where it's like, oh, damn, they change their bones. That's crazy. You know what I'm saying? That was like. They probably never seen anything like that. There was probably some people. There's also been things that people have been saying, like, you know, like, they were switching up the makeup. So you see him, you'll see him, like, in rehearsal footage and stuff. Be darker than when you see him perform and stuff. And so, like, some of it's some, like, Little Richard action going on. Right. You know what I'm saying? And then also. But I mean, maybe it's like years and years of all different types of makeup, all different types of foundation, all different spins, you know what I'm saying? You mix this stuff together, things start changing. Mike would bend out, the paint is

[Langston Kerman]

coming in and stuff.

[Rob Hayes]

Teddy Riley did Dangerous, you know what I'm saying? He took us to Egypt. Don't think he ain't. You know what I'm saying? Don't think Michael Jackson is shame of who he is, where he came from.

[David Bore]

Well, Magic Johnson was in that.

[Rob Hayes]

Remember the time Magic Johnson was in there? And it was probably some people. Naomi Campbell sat on edge about it. You know what I mean?

[David Bore]

Yeah, but like, yeah, they debuted that on.

[Langston Kerman]

Wait, Naomi Campbell wasn't Imani. Naomi Campbell was in the.

[Rob Hayes]

Keep it in the Closet.

[Langston Kerman]

Keep it in the closet.

[Rob Hayes]

That's a good song.

[David Bore]

I feel like people really don't let that.

[Langston Kerman]

That's a very formative Video for me.

[David Bore]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

The beat is great. The video is great. I really don't understand what the song is saying.

[David Bore]

No, that's not the point.

[Langston Kerman]

What are you doing? Yeah, what are we doing? What you're talking about, man.

[Rob Hayes]

Oh, well, that's about being a Crip.

[David Bore]

That Crip picture is real. You know what picture I've always wondered is real? And I feel like you're the one to ask. The one where he's got the bottle and the two little layers. The two little. You know, the little people.

[Langston Kerman]

Ladies. I know what you meant.

[David Bore]

Yeah. You know what I'm talking about.

[Rob Hayes]

Clearly, I'm not the person to verify if stuff is real or not, but I've seen it, and I would love to know the story. Me too.

[David Bore]

I think about that a lot.

[Rob Hayes]

There's also that picture. Like, it's clearly somebody, like, opened the door and took a picture, and he looking stressed out, and it's like a lady right there by the bed or whatever. Yeah.

[David Bore]

Wait, let me see.

[Langston Kerman]

This is what you're talking about with this, where he's drinking with these two little people. You're familiar with this piece?

[David Bore]

I tried to put it on a hoodie, but Zazzle wouldn't let me do it. What does that mean?

[Rob Hayes]

You know, be in charge of hoodies.

[David Bore]

No, those websites where you could, like, make your own hoodie.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh. They were like, this image isn't allowed.

[David Bore]

Yeah, I couldn't do that. I also tried to do one with Manute Bol in the swimming pool, and they wouldn't let me do that. Damn, that would be a cool. On a hoodie. That'd be a great.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, you should get it embroidered. I bet they don't have the same.

[Rob Hayes]

So he's got, like a. Like a 40. I thought you meant, like, a baby bottle. And I was like, that's insensitive. That is really messy. But, yeah, he's not.

[Langston Kerman]

He's not mocking them. He's like, these are my people.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

No, he looks comfy.

[Langston Kerman]

That's Lil Denise and that's Lil Mariah.

[David Bore]

He looks so comfortable. Let me see it again.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, he looks great.

[David Bore]

That's, like, happier than I feel like he looks in most pictures.

[Langston Kerman]

They look comfy. He looks happy.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

We don't know the man. He was in all kind of stuff

[David Bore]

we don't know about.

[Rob Hayes]

We don't know.

[David Bore]

We know he likes because when he

[Rob Hayes]

died, they found 36 bottles of bleaching cream. That doesn't mean that he used them on his skin.

[Langston Kerman]

So here, this is I think where we get into some of the.

[David Bore]

The.

[Langston Kerman]

My concerns.

[Rob Hayes]

Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

And. And you feel free to tag in wherever. I just. I did a quick Google of just how. What surgeries Michael Jackson underwent, and they said he underwent multiple plastic surgery procedures throughout his life. Here's a timeline of the surgery.

[Rob Hayes]

It's all Amelia Perez propaganda. This ain't real, dog. This ain't real.

[Langston Kerman]

Early 80s, they say that he had rhinoplasty nose surgery to reduce the size of his nose. Yeah, early 80s, so it would have to be before the pen. Pepsi. They also said that he started skin bleaching due to his vitiligo.

[Rob Hayes]

Come on.

[Langston Kerman]

That it was because of the skin condition. And I have seen interviews with his mom where she says that he. His bleaching was so severe. Not his active bleaching, but like, the bleaching of his skin from vitiligo was so severe mostly under his clothes.

[David Bore]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

Which is why he started wearing long sleeves everywhere. Which is why he started wearing the glove was because it was, like, starting to spread. It started in his chest and then spread throughout his body.

[David Bore]

That's so sad, man. We would have took it if you'd have just been like, I'm Michael Jackson. I got Vitiligo. We would have took it.

[Langston Kerman]

He could have Winnie Harlowed that shit.

[Rob Hayes]

But there was no Winnie Harlow like that. I mean, I think about that all the time. But I also think that he would have had to really just. I don't know. I feel like the 80s was mean, and I feel like he would have had to take. You know what I'm saying? I think, like, he would have took. It would have been all kind of jokes. He would have took all kind. He would have took a lot.

[Langston Kerman]

He took self and he took a lot.

[David Bore]

But he did take a lot. Look, he didn't pick like he wrote Just Leave Me Alone. Another great song.

[Rob Hayes]

Coast around the Body.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

Come on.

[David Bore]

It looked like the sledgehammer video from that rock and roll the man don't miss. But he did take so much from it, right?

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

I don't think he would have taken more had he let it rock than had he gone to the lengths that he went to.

[Rob Hayes]

I agree. But I do feel like, you know, that is the tricky thing about trying to alter your appearance and especially for the perception of others. You know, there's a great comedy special about that same thing called Frontin on YouTube. You guys should check it out. But it is the curse of that thing where you're like, you're doing this thing and then, you know, the goal of altering your appearance is, you know, acceptance. Acceptance and sometimes reaching for that is what, you know, totally get you ostracized. Totally get you unaccepted, you know. But I think his experience was so bugged out already that it probably, you know, I think that's why he was able to be so drastic. Because it's like, I have giraffes in my front yard. My life is already different.

[David Bore]

Yeah, I have giraffes.

[Rob Hayes]

You know what I'm saying? Like, I've been taking care of this whole family since I was. Was 11. Like, you know, my life is just different. So then it's just also like, okay, if I, you know, it might be a physical manifestation of that. Of like, hey, when you see me. No, I'm not the same. Because I'm not the same.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. I mean, there is something crazy in keeping your name the same. Having gone from the brokest human being alive in Gary, Indiana, you know what I mean? With like, nothing. Literally no opportunity, no dream, no way of accessing anything.

[Rob Hayes]

Right?

[Langston Kerman]

And then suddenly becoming an ascended human to the point that you are. Got like, people pass out when you walk into a room, like, no. And you kept the name the same, right? No, I have to change something to be able to demonstrate the transformation of

[David Bore]

that into the timeline on that. Right. The eighties would have seemed. When it was the most. He was the most affected by that. Right. Like, that's the biggest transition in his, like. Cause that's when he goes from, like, that's when he becomes icon, right?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

The 80s is king of pop.

[Langston Kerman]

I think the Jackson 5 were massive, but I don't think that they were like. I don't imagine that they were permanent in the people's minds of like, oh, this group will be with us forever and always type shit.

[David Bore]

And they weren't like. Were they international? Like Thriller to Bad is like, that's like, that's.

[Langston Kerman]

I think that's.

[David Bore]

Now you become. Now you're a legend. You're a living legend.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

I mean, I think that, like, the Jackson 5 are in, you know, are popular, but they're thought of as a novelty when they're put in a box for other kids groups. I think the stuff he did with the Jacksons when they went to Philly and Gamble and Huff and stuff, like, some of that stuff kind of solidified them as in the mix in an R and B context. And then when basically off the Wall gets shunned from major category Grammys, kind of the same fight Beyonce Is fighting. And so many black artists fight as far as acceptance overall, the entire music industry. That's when it's like, let's go pop. Let's put gold on the jacket.

[Langston Kerman]

It.

[Rob Hayes]

Let's go for it. And then they did it. And they did it so well. It was like the biggest album ever. And now it's like, yeah, it gets nuts.

[David Bore]

Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. So he had to, your point, he had to make some changes. He had to. At least.

[Rob Hayes]

I'm not saying he had to. I'm just saying that, like, I feel for Michael Jackson sometimes, and I feel like, you know, I feel like, yeah, now with the 2025 lens, we can be like, yes, he could have done so much for other people who had Villa Ligo and, like, could have been transparent and that could have been the next, you know, like, you know, instead of, you know, he could have been vulnerable. He could have showed us blah, blah, blah. But also, I think, like, that's a lot to add as somebody who, you know, probably.

[David Bore]

It also wasn't a wave like it is now, right?

[Langston Kerman]

To do good, to be vulnerable.

[David Bore]

To be vulnerable, to go to therapy.

[Rob Hayes]

It was still, like, to be a good person. Like, none of that was cool back then.

[Langston Kerman]

I think it's not until recently. And then it's also now died. But it wasn't until recently that we actually wanted our heroes to be human. You know what I mean?

[David Bore]

Like, I don't even know if we actually do.

[Langston Kerman]

No, that's what I mean. I think we killed it off immediately because we saw a bunch of, like, human qualities in all of these people, and we were like, oh, no, no, no, no. This is fucking awful. Go back to being completely separate from us. And now we can't figure out a way to put that back in right. We want it desperately to go away and we can't fix it anymore. But, no, I think Michael Jackson, yeah, he was. He grew up in an era where there are gods and there are men, and he was a God, and he could not show that vulnerability as a God. That said, there are many other surgeries I'd love to cover with you.

[Rob Hayes]

All right. Rumors. That's why you want to spread rumors on your platform. You, my guest.

[Langston Kerman]

In the mid-80s, he apparently had additional rhinoplasty and cheek augmentation. Late-80s, he had eyelid surgery and lip augmentation.

[David Bore]

Oh, that's when they got thin.

[Langston Kerman]

That's when they got real thin.

[David Bore]

Is that when the ad libs came? When it got real Thin. Because that inspired.

[Langston Kerman]

There's nothing to block the noise.

[David Bore]

When they put this back, that's how you show going off. Like, look what they just did.

[Langston Kerman]

He was probably saying it the whole time. But then big old juicy lips was catching.

[David Bore]

It was getting in the way. Now I like to think he wrote man in the Mirror before. Yeah. And he tried to sing it and he was like, no, you got ready yet? But it was.

[Langston Kerman]

Those are blues lips, baby.

[David Bore]

Yeah. He said, you want to sing?

[Rob Hayes]

You're gonna need them boys.

[Langston Kerman]

You'll need them boys. Thin as a razor.

[David Bore]

We don't realize it was for the art. That's like Rocky being like, cut me, Mick.

[Langston Kerman]

I can't do it right.

[David Bore]

Cut me. I need. You gotta take some juice out. I gotta.

[Langston Kerman]

I love that. That this was all just a beautiful effort towards making better music.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

In a rolling.

[David Bore]

Because I do like those. That shit was so good.

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[Langston Kerman]

In the early 90s he got multiple rhinoplasties, chin augmentation again and breast implants which he later removed. I think they say breasts. I imagine it was more chest implants.

[David Bore]

Okay. Michael Jackson wear huge titties.

[Rob Hayes]

I don't think just a couple days, just a week, you know? See what it was hitting on blanket ain't like it. He got rid of him. My bad, my bad, my bad.

[Langston Kerman]

I thought I could breastfeed you.

[Rob Hayes]

I thought.

[Langston Kerman]

I thought.

[David Bore]

Would he have a long haircut with the big titties?

[Langston Kerman]

That would. That would be huge.

[David Bore]

That would be crazy.

[Langston Kerman]

That would be crazy.

[David Bore]

Was that the.

[Langston Kerman]

Not I.

[David Bore]

You are not alone.

[Rob Hayes]

You are not alone.

[Langston Kerman]

He really abandoned that bob vest.

[David Bore]

It's not good. I think we've talked about it on here before. That was not.

[Langston Kerman]

We started to talk about it and then you distracted us with tiny. Have you ever seen Michael Jackson's nipples?

[David Bore]

That's right.

[Langston Kerman]

Have you?

[David Bore]

Yes, you have.

[Rob Hayes]

I feel like he. I've seen him.

[David Bore]

Olivia, that's smut. I'm sorry? Olivia's showing us pictures of Michael Jackson with titties showing smut.

[Langston Kerman]

That ain't I Can't see it, but I'm excited.

[David Bore]

It sucks.

[Rob Hayes]

It's Mike in a bra, man. Yeah, yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Like, it's supposed to.

[Rob Hayes]

No, no, I got you.

[David Bore]

I'm sorry. Continue. The. We're talking about the Bob.

[Langston Kerman]

He got his Bob. But in the meantime, he also, in the mid-90s, got a facelift and Botox injections.

[David Bore]

Y' all believe that?

[Rob Hayes]

I don't believe it.

[Langston Kerman]

In the 90s, he. Late 90s, he got more rhinoplasties and a skin graft to repair damage from lupus.

[Rob Hayes]

Okay. See, it's real.

[David Bore]

Were they taking pictures?

[Langston Kerman]

Okay, I am seeing that picture now, and it. It does suck.

[David Bore]

You're right. Yeah, it's tough.

[Langston Kerman]

And then the 2000s, he got additional skin grafts and laser treatments. And then, of course, in 2009, he died from cardiac arrest from taking all that propo.

[David Bore]

I feel like in the 2000s, we weren't really seeing him as much visually.

[Rob Hayes]

See him at court.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

On top of.

[David Bore]

What was the blanket thing?

[Rob Hayes]

Suburban and stuff, you know? Right, the blanket thing. That was the 2000s.

[Langston Kerman]

A lot of umbrellas, a lot of. A lot of face masks. He was early in.

[Rob Hayes]

Early in the face mask. Yeah. Early in the COVID

[David Bore]

But compared to how exposed he was before, like, we watched him kind of our lifetime is watching him go further and further inside.

[Langston Kerman]

I think he went through so many sort of, like, heartbreaks just with, like, the accusations around, obviously, him being, you know, a sex criminal, but then additionally, like, the shit with his kids and like. Like getting sort of exposed for whatever those weird relationships were. All the civil trials he was facing down, all the. The weird. Like, then, remember, there was a period where he had started, like, suing his company, his record label, for racial injustice, and he had, like, linked up with Johnny Cochran, trying to, like, recoup funds off of what he claimed was them trying to tank his career. Like, I think he was so disillusioned with the world that you had to put an umbrella up and go inside.

[Rob Hayes]

He had Johnny Cochran first, though. He had Johnny Cochran before O.J.

[Langston Kerman]

oh, he was before O.J.

[Rob Hayes]

yeah. Yeah. He might have gave O.J. johnny's number.

[Langston Kerman]

Whoa.

[Rob Hayes]

Johnny Cochran was on the front in the 90s. Johnnie Cochran was on board. And then either Johnny Cochran had to leave or they settled or whatever. Yeah, Johnny Cochran left, and then they settled or something. Johnny Cochran don't take no Ls, you know what I'm saying?

[Langston Kerman]

Crazy.

[Rob Hayes]

So then. Yeah, but then when O.J. got with Johnny Cochran, it was like he got lawyer to the stars. You know what I'm saying?

[Langston Kerman]

Whoa, that's crazy. If that's who O.J.

[Rob Hayes]

called, I don't know if that's who he called. I'm just saying, Mike, I need another pass.

[David Bore]

There's only one man I could call.

[Langston Kerman]

Call Johnny.

[Rob Hayes]

I wouldn't give you his number, but I heard you had a glove on, so, you know, gloves gotta stick together, man.

[David Bore]

If you believe that was his real voice.

[Langston Kerman]

I do not believe that.

[Rob Hayes]

Nah, that wasn't his voice. No, we've heard. Yeah, we've heard his real voice, man.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, in that, in the recordings for the video game, I think they had.

[David Bore]

Yeah, yeah, that boxing game.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, that's what it was, the boxing game. They have the lost files of him ready to rumble.

[Rob Hayes]

I wish they had told us that was him. You know how many arguments I had in school, man? There ain't no real Michael Jackson voice he don't even know about. Ready to rumble.

[David Bore]

Yeah, man. Really?

[Bowen Yang]

Him?

[Rob Hayes]

That's crazy, because I think they couldn't advertise it. I think Michael Jackson was in such hot water at the time. I don't think they could really advertise that it was him in the game. But, yeah, I bet that's why he changed his voice. Yeah, I bet he was.

[Langston Kerman]

He was like, out of respect to what y' all got going. And you're still gonna represent me. I'll give you my voice. I, I'll change it. I'll just give you a different Michael J. Jackson.

[Rob Hayes]

He made some of the songs for Sonic.

[Langston Kerman]

I didn't know that.

[Rob Hayes]

The original one, one of the, like,

[David Bore]

like on the Segas.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, on the Sega, like the video games. Crazy Ghost produce some of, some of Sonic, like where Sonic's underwater.

[Langston Kerman]

That's, That's crazy, man.

[David Bore]

That was good. You remember, like, you let Sonic hang out to just listen to the Sonic and he starts tapping his foot and he puts his hand on his hip.

[Rob Hayes]

They would steal from music, though, back in those days, you know, it was like the wild, wild West. Nobody was protecting IP in 16 bit form. So, like, yeah, there's some songs that's like, man, this sound familiar? And it's like, yeah, they was just taking a step.

[Langston Kerman]

That sucks. I guess it's also pretty cool. I don't know some of legal. And I say this fully being a person who I, I hope doesn't get all of his propriety ideas, whatever stolen, right? I, I, I really don't like the laws around, like, fair use. I really feel like you made some shit. I should be able to just. I want to put your song in my thing and I don't want to have to ask for it. And I know that's not nice, right?

[Rob Hayes]

But I guess it's to prevent people from just totally jacking your song and just, you know, And I think there's two years on it and then it's like, like, that's my song.

[Langston Kerman]

I think there should be laws around that. I think that's crazy. If you made something, it should be yours and it should. You should be paid properly for that.

[Rob Hayes]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

I just hate that the way that artists are forced to make their money is by having to manage all existence of their song anywhere.

[Rob Hayes]

Right?

[Langston Kerman]

Rather than. Rather than you just getting paid off of the greatness of something you made. And then anybody can throw it on their fucking DVD because it's a great song and we can all appreciate that you got paid properly for it.

[Rob Hayes]

Right? Right.

[David Bore]

Yeah, but that's never gonna happen.

[Langston Kerman]

And that's my problem is that fair use is just us being punished for you all being snakes with the very artists you claim to represent.

[Rob Hayes]

That's real. That's real. But I mean, like, it sucks now. Like, I feel like this generation, I see, you know, being that I receive so much Michael Jackson stuff, I get into Michael Jackson verse, Prince stuff all the time. But there's so many people that don't have knowledge of Prince because he was so protective of his IP online from the mid 2000s, basically until he died. And so there's so much Prince stuff that people didn't discover. There's so many people that don't have knowledge of Prince and they're like, why would you even compare these two? But part of that is because. Because they don't even know how like crazy Prince was going in the 80s. They don't know about a lot of his music. They don't know about a lot of his influence and all of that. And it's like, you know. But part of that was. Cause he was so tight. Like if you had a baby dancing in 1999, he'd pull it down. You know what I'm saying?

[Langston Kerman]

Have y' all heard about the Prince documentary?

[David Bore]

Oh, they pulled it, right? The estate pulled it.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

So Netflix basically commissions this documentary from the same dude who made the OJ documentary. The. The one that was like.

[Rob Hayes]

So it's like an Oscar winning 30 for 30.

[Langston Kerman]

30 for 30.

[David Bore]

So it's not like, it's not like a puff piece. It's like a.

[Langston Kerman]

No, this was like a true deep dive. And apparently I Learned all this on the Daily, but apparently he went to the vlog Vault because that's how they. They basically, you know, Netflix got the rights to what was in the Vault. And so they went to him and were like, we're giving you all his shit. Go in the vault. Go ahead, make the documentary. He goes in the vault. He's like, bro, all the meaningful has been scrubbed. That like Prince was so on top of it in terms of keeping it private. He scrubbed anything that would have been like sort of casual moment or anything that was like caught off guard ass Prince. It just is all clean photos and, and shiny, right? Yeah. And so he's pissed because like, this sucks. I've been. I got access to the old. The vault.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

And it still sucks. I'm never going to learn about this dude. And he goes on a six year mission talking to every single person who considered themselves in any way shape form close to Prince, who will talk to him and truly makes what they describe in the Daily as a masterpiece of a documentary about this dude. Really exploring like most of his childhood, unpacking all of this trauma that created the character, like really like digging into relationships and his, his sort of like abuses and also like the abuse that he put out, like all kinds of shit unpleasant packed. And then the family, the estate saw it and was like, we gave them 17 pages worth of notes being like, we don't want this in there, we don't want that in there. That can't exist. Nobody needs to know about this. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the. He was like, yo, I can give you like a taste, but I can't. I can't lie about what I've discovered.

[David Bore]

Right?

[Langston Kerman]

And then they, Netflix and them were just like, fine, then it'll never exist. And they damn. And now it's gone.

[Rob Hayes]

Somebody got it. Somebody got it. Somebody got it. Somebody got it. That might be my new mission to get the freaking Prince doc, bro.

[Langston Kerman]

I, I have mixed feelings about it, if I'm being honest with you.

[Rob Hayes]

Really? Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Part of me is like, well, obviously I want to see the documentary. I'm such a massive Prince fan. It would mean the world to me to know more about this person. And. But I also think he did it. He beat the fucking game, bro.

[David Bore]

That's what I was thinking as you were describing it. I was like, damn, he got away clean.

[Langston Kerman]

He set out to keep his world private. Despite being arguably the most talented human being that's ever walked the face of the earth.

[Rob Hayes]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

He was like, I'm going to Leave this world with you knowing nothing about me. And he did it.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

And he.

[Langston Kerman]

If you can do that, you deserve that privacy. You deserve to go into whatever afterlife exists for you, knowing that, like, you beat the game. Instead of this other version of the game where, like, a person dies and then we dig through all their shit and go, ain't this crazy? He had this the whole time. Yeah, we need to know about that for.

[Rob Hayes]

Oh, no. He could still have his privacy. I'm not gonna tell nobody. I just want to see it.

[Langston Kerman]

You just need.

[Rob Hayes]

Nobody else got to know. Yeah, I just want to see it.

[Langston Kerman]

I think the hard part is there are 1 billion people on the planet who feel the same way. I won't tell nobody.

[Rob Hayes]

No, I ain't gonna clip it. I ain't gonna make no content. You know what I'm saying? I'm just gonna see it. And, you know, I ain't gonna talk about it unless somebody else seen it.

[David Bore]

There we go.

[Rob Hayes]

Now you lying now. Somebody else saw it. Then we can have a conversation. Questlove had to see it. If I ever see Questlove, I'm gonna

[David Bore]

be like, yo, you see that Prince talk?

[Rob Hayes]

You see that Prince dog?

[Langston Kerman]

There's no way. They call you. They go. They go, rob, we're gonna do a private screening. Just you, no one else. We're gonna let you watch the Prince documentary. You watch the entire Prince documentary, you have tears in your eyes by the end of it. It is that meaningful to you to get this moment. And then you walk out of that documentary. You go back to your home. You go back to your wife. There's no fucking way in the world that while y' all are brushing your teeth late at night. Night, you don't go. The documentary was pretty crazy. Yeah.

[David Bore]

I would tell my girl that.

[Langston Kerman]

You're gonna tell somebody.

[Rob Hayes]

They know. I'm gonna tell my wife.

[David Bore]

Come on, man.

[Rob Hayes]

She can't even testify against me. They know that.

[Langston Kerman]

And there's no way your wife isn't going back to her very challenging job. And then being like, what were y' all up to this weekend? I ain't do much, but I'm gonna tell you, Rob. Got to see that princess again.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Everything is gonna. It's. It's gonna become public knowledge. This never stays private.

[David Bore]

I mean, that being said, how many people worked on it? There's, like. A lot of people have seen it, I'm sure.

[Langston Kerman]

On the documentary. Yeah, I bet a lot of people have seen it, but I bet there's editors.

[David Bore]

There's, like, the Whole.

[Langston Kerman]

I bet a lot of it. A lot of what it is. We know now because just of word of mouth that he was both controlling and abusive and complicated is ultimately what it all shows is that, like, he was abused, was put out of his. His childhood home at 12 by his mom, then at 14 by his dad. He truly had to get it.

[David Bore]

How old was he when they found him in that park?

[Langston Kerman]

That's what I'm saying. He had to get it out the mud at, like, 17.

[Rob Hayes]

Crazy.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

I assume he just played the album for his parents and they were like, well, you don't need to go to college.

[David Bore]

Honestly, you got with you.

[Rob Hayes]

Yo, that's crazy. I didn't know about this at all.

[Langston Kerman]

His mom was, like, apparently. Apparently super, like, cold and, like. And they. Their relationship was toxic. But then he moved in with his dad, who he loved and admired, but his dad was hella religious.

[David Bore]

Too blind. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Would, like, beat the shit out of him.

[Rob Hayes]

Absolutely. Come on, man. He's not a woman, he's not a man. He's something you can never comprehend. You know what I mean? He taught us this.

[Langston Kerman]

But that's also part of what they claim makes the documentary so masterful, is that all these songs that you thought were about sex and sexuality are actually, like, just hammered with this duality, where it's also about, like, a person struggling to find community, a person struggling to, like, to place their identity in a world that has rejected them from the beginning. It's. It's like. It creates, like, all these fucking layers for who the human is. But also, he didn't want us to know, and I kind of respect that. He figured out a way to keep that so quiet.

[David Bore]

It's crazy that Minnesota is the backdrop

[Langston Kerman]

for all of this the whole time.

[Rob Hayes]

I mean, I respect it. I do feel like the reason his estate is protecting this is not for him. No, not for them. But just because it might affect the bottom line. There might be some people that are like, I don't want to play Prince music anymore. Know. And that's all they care about, you know what I'm saying? Like, Prince music was on Tidal only that's the reason that I had Tidal the minute he died. We go in the train station, it's Spotify ads for Prince all over the train station. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, they just. There's some people in that camp just out to make a buck.

[David Bore]

And it does feel. It is very disheartening. Like when you go to the Minneapolis airport and there's that Prince store. And you're like, damn, if there was some shit he would have hated. Hated, right?

[Langston Kerman]

It was, yeah, he didn't want this.

[David Bore]

He didn't want that at all.

[Langston Kerman]

And the documentarian talks about it in the interview that I listened to. He talks a lot about how, like even going to Paisley park, it's not like you're being informed on who Prince is. It truly is just a big gift shop. Like they've turned it into like a fucking, you know, hard rock cafe for Prince more than it is like a real test to like, his ever changing positions on like the world on responsibility. The nigga died a Jehovah's Witness, right? It's not even a knowledge like his.

[David Bore]

One of the numbers.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

How many years there's supposed to be

[Langston Kerman]

160,000 or something like that. It's something crazy that you the proud. Yeah, No, I mean, we're. You're not even given the chance to get to know who he is based off of the assassination state. Even regardless of like, what becomes the more complicated details of his past. It won't even give you a chance to do basic knowledge on what Prince. Who Prince was. And so in that way, it is disheartening where you go, no, I think it would be really good for us as humans to know that our heroes can again be these complicated figures and still valuable. That said, I also respect that my hero really pulled a fast one on us. And I. I gotta say, big up, man. You did it.

[Rob Hayes]

I could live with that. I do. You know, when you put it that way, I do feel like that is ill. And yeah, I was looking forward to like, nah, we going in your stuff, dog. But you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I think that's the better way to just. Yeah. Chalk it up to the game, man.

[Langston Kerman]

Man, he might be the last one we know.

[David Bore]

Cause I don't think a lot of people win that 100%. I don't think that's really. I don't think a lot of people win that.

[Langston Kerman]

Daniel Day Lewis, him.

[Rob Hayes]

He's still alive.

[Langston Kerman]

Daniel Day Lewis, yeah, he's still with

[David Bore]

us, but we don't know anything.

[Rob Hayes]

He might mess up. He might mess up.

[Langston Kerman]

He might mess up.

[Rob Hayes]

He might slap somebody. We don't know.

[David Bore]

I don't know where he's at.

[Langston Kerman]

He keeps it pretty private.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, we'll see. He met this. Who he playing next, you know what I'm saying?

[Langston Kerman]

Frank Ocean, kind of. But he got messy friends, so we be learning.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, we be learning.

[Langston Kerman]

Little tidbits about him every once in a while.

[Rob Hayes]

Mm.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I don't know, man. It's not a lot of the privates left, so.

[David Bore]

And I hate to say this on this medium, a lot of that is cause podcasting.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. No, we're ruining it for sure.

[David Bore]

It's like too much.

[Langston Kerman]

How much of this is just gossip. We just come on here and gossip about.

[David Bore]

Don't do that. Don't do that.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, I thought you knew. We just gossiped.

[David Bore]

No, stop it. Just don't say it.

[Langston Kerman]

I think we did it.

[Rob Hayes]

I think it was pretty good.

[Langston Kerman]

Feels like it's. I think certainly I still believe Michael Jackson got a lot more surgeries than you do, but I do, I guess. If I may, I do think there maybe is a more complicated reasoning behind the surgeries than just self hatred. The way that it's often been painted.

[Rob Hayes]

Right. It's often painted as this man wanted to be white man.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

I don't see it like that.

[David Bore]

It's more complicated than that, for sure.

[Langston Kerman]

I think it's definitely more complicated.

[Rob Hayes]

You ain't never spun like he spun.

[David Bore]

I tried. I tried a lot of spinning because

[Rob Hayes]

I got a scar in my chair trying to do the smooth criminal lean. Not knowing that, like. Yeah, it was a different shoe technology. I just thought if you train your calves the right way, you know what I'm saying, you can get back up and then bow.

[Langston Kerman]

They stapled that man to the floor.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Bore]

You still gotta be strong.

[Langston Kerman]

No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's a bunch of us that even with that technology, wouldn't come close to being able to. Certainly not for the pants are rip

[Rob Hayes]

right through them special shoes.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Rob Hayes]

Expose the whole trick to the world.

[Langston Kerman]

I just zioned a hole in them shoes. There's no way in the world I

[Rob Hayes]

would have pulled that off.

[Langston Kerman]

Rob, could you tell the people where they can find you what cool shit

[David Bore]

you got going on?

[Rob Hayes]

You can find me. I'm on the inconsistent podcast with Rob Hayes. Comes out when it's ready. Yeah. You know, it's inconsistent in brand and in nature. I do the in season podcast with my boy Jamel Johnson. Also watch Lil Kev. Yeah. Also frontin out now. It's on all streaming platforms. It's a album. It's also a special you can watch on YouTube. We like watching people do, but yeah,

[Langston Kerman]

hell yeah, go watch Rob.

[Rob Hayes]

Go.

[Langston Kerman]

Go listen to Rob. Go watch his shit.

[David Bore]

What you got cool guy jokes? 87 on Instagram. Patreon.com davidbory by my special Birth of a Nation. It's the best special I've ever had.

[Langston Kerman]

That's true.

[Rob Hayes]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

That's objectively true.

[David Bore]

I'm gonna say that every special.

[Langston Kerman]

I like that. You can follow me at Langston Kerman on all social media platforms and you can send us your own drops, your own conspiracy theories. You could tell us what color Michael J. Jackson would have been if he were still alive today. [e-mail] we would love to hear from you. Give us a call at 844-lil-moms buy some merch like rate, subscribe, review, do all the important things that you need to do and most importantly bleach.

[Rob Hayes]

Bitch, I don't give a fuck who say what. Blood on Crip

[Langston Kerman]

My Mama Told Me is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Big Money Players Network and I Heart

[David Bore]

Podcast, created and hosted by Langston Kerman

[Langston Kerman]

co hosted by David Bore executive produced

[David Bore]

by Will Ferrell, Hansani and Olivia Aguilar

[Langston Kerman]

co produced by Bay Wayne Edited and

[David Bore]

engineered by Justin Cotton Music by Nick Chambers Artwork by Dogon Krieger.

[Langston Kerman]

You can now watch episodes of My Mama told me on YouTube, follow at my Mama Told Me and subscribe to our channel. Honestly, Honestly Honestly no one wants to think about hiv, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it. Things like prep. PREP stands for Pre Exposure Prophylaxis and

[David Bore]

it means routinely taking prescription medicine before

[Rob Hayes]

you're exposed to HIV to help reduce

[Langston Kerman]

your your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention Options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more.

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[Langston Kerman]

Wasn't that delicious?

[Rob Hayes]

So good. Your bill, ladies.

[Redfin Advertiser]

I got it.

[Rob Hayes]

No, I got it.

[Langston Kerman]

Seriously, I insist. I assisted first.

[Commercial Announcer]

Don't be silly.

[Rob Hayes]

You don't be silly. People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[David Bore]

Shoot.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

No.

[Rob Hayes]

The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.comActiveCash terms apply.

[Langston Kerman]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Commercial Announcer]

Guaranteed Human.