Detailed Summary of "Friendship Roundtable: How to Make, Keep & Deepen Friendships"

Podcast: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Host/Author: Lemonada Media
Episode Released: April 2, 2025
Episode Title: Friendship Roundtable: How to Make, Keep & Deepen Friendships

Introduction

In this episode of My So-Called Midlife, Reshma Saujani delves into the pivotal role of friendships during midlife. Recognizing that the friendships sustaining one's twenties and thirties might not necessarily carry into later years, Saujani seeks insights to navigate the evolving landscape of relationships. To explore this topic, she invites bestselling author Gretchen Rubin and Yale University professor Laurie Santos to join a roundtable discussion focused on making, keeping, and deepening friendships.

The Importance of Friendship in Midlife

Reshma begins by sharing her realization that midlife isn’t just about personal reinvention but also about nurturing meaningful friendships. She emphasizes that as life circumstances change—such as relocating from bustling cities like New York—maintaining existing friendships or forging new ones becomes challenging. Saujani states:

"Friendship was something that came up in so many of my incredible conversations... friendships in midlife, really become family."
— Reshma Saujani [00:24:24]

Types of Friendships

Laurie Santos introduces a scientific framework categorizing friendships into three types:

1. Intimate Friends: Close confidants who serve as the "3am call" friends.
2. Relational Friends: Acquaintances with whom one engages in regular activities but lacks deep intimacy.
3. Communal Friends: Members of community groups or shared activities, such as book clubs or sports teams.

Santos explains:

"The intimate one... your ride or die bestie... Relational friends are the ones you like to do stuff with... Communal friends are like your book club or your Pilates group."
— Laurie Santos [00:18:47]

Gretchen Rubin adds that understanding these different categories helps in recognizing the varying roles friends play in one’s life, thereby preventing the conflation of acquaintances with true friends.

Challenges in Making and Maintaining Friendships

The discussion highlights several obstacles faced in midlife friendship dynamics:

• Time Constraints: Balancing professional responsibilities, family, and personal time makes scheduling social interactions difficult. Rubin notes:

  "I think scheduling is the biggest obstacle in my life to friendship, which is just the sheer nuisance of 'Are you free?'"
  — Gretchen Rubin [00:28:42]

• Geographical Mobility: Moving away from established social circles can lead to the dissolution of long-term friendships.

• Changing Definitions: Friends may have differing expectations about the nature and frequency of interactions, leading to misunderstandings or perceived betrayals, as Laurie shares:

  "She was like, 'That's not in my definition of our friendship. We'll be just as good of friends if we do the same stuff over the phone or once a month.'"
  — Laurie Santos [00:26:21]

The Four Tendencies Framework

Gretchen Rubin introduces her Four Tendencies personality framework—Upholders, Questioners, Obligers, and Rebels—to elucidate how different personalities interact within friendships.

• Upholders: Meet both outer and inner expectations reliably.
• Questioners: Question all expectations and only meet those that make sense logically.
• Obligers: Meet outer expectations but struggle with inner ones unless externally accountable.
• Rebels: Resist all expectations, valuing personal freedom above all.

Reshma questions whether similarity in tendencies fosters better friendships:

"Am I more likely to have a better relationship with someone who is just like me, an upholder, or no?"
— Reshma Saujani [00:37:59]

Rubin responds that while similar tendencies can facilitate understanding, Obligers are particularly adept at maintaining diverse friendships, as they naturally accommodate various personality types. She shares strategies for interacting with rebels, such as embracing spontaneity instead of rigid scheduling:

"I don't feel like it's personal... so for an upholder, I don't have those problems because I'm so disciplined and so scheduled..."
— Reshma Saujani [00:39:49]

Practical Tips for Building and Deepening Friendships

The panel offers actionable advice for listeners aiming to enhance their friendships:

1. Be Present and Reach Out: Initiate contact without overanalyzing the interaction. Santos emphasizes the importance of expressing appreciation or checking in, which can significantly impact friends positively.

   "Whenever you have an urge to give a compliment, just send the text, just put in the call... It means more to the person than you think."
   — Laurie Santos [00:45:42]

2. Embrace Quality Over Quantity: Prioritize meaningful interactions even if infrequent. Saujani shares her approach to valuing the quality of time spent with friends over the quantity:

   "I'm going on a girls trip... we don't have to spend all of this time, but it's the quality of time when we're together."
   — Reshma Saujani [00:43:38]

3. Understand and Respect Different Definitions: Recognize that friends may have varied expectations and definitions of what constitutes a friendship, and navigate these differences with grace.

4. Model Positive Friendship Behaviors: Demonstrate the importance of friendships to children by actively engaging in and prioritizing social connections.

   "It's good role modeling, too... they see that you're going out with friends or having a book club."
   — Reshma Saujani [00:49:59]

5. Use Personality Insights: Apply the Four Tendencies framework to better understand and accommodate friends’ behavioral motivations, fostering healthier and more resilient relationships.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the panelists sharing personal anecdotes and reaffirming the significance of friendships in fostering happiness and well-being during midlife. Reshma Saujani encourages listeners to prioritize relationships and utilize the discussed strategies to cultivate lasting and fulfilling friendships.

"When you think about how friendships strengthen us and make us happier, remember you're also making your friends happier."
— Gretchen Rubin [00:47:59]

Laurie Santos adds:

"It's less awkward than you think. It means more to the person than you think."
— Laurie Santos [00:48:25]

Reshma concludes with a heartfelt sentiment:

"Friendship can shift to be a place where both parties are present in each other’s lives in meaningful ways."
— Reshma Saujani [00:47:30]

Key Takeaways

• Diverse Friendship Types: Understanding the different categories of friendships can help manage expectations and foster deeper connections.

• Personality Alignment: Utilizing frameworks like the Four Tendencies can enhance interpersonal understanding and reduce friction in relationships.

• Active Engagement: Regularly reaching out and investing in friendships, even amidst busy schedules, is crucial for maintaining meaningful connections.

• Quality Over Frequency: Prioritizing the quality of interactions over the number or frequency can lead to more satisfying and lasting friendships.

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for anyone navigating the complexities of midlife friendships, offering both scientific insights and practical advice to help listeners build and sustain rewarding relationships.