← My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Growing Older Is Not Something to Fear with Dr. Sharon Malone
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- [00:01]
Reshma Sajani
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Dr. Sharon Malone
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Reshma Sajani
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Dr. Sharon Malone
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Reshma Sajani
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Dr. Sharon Malone
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Reshma Sajani
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Dr. Sharon Malone
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Reshma Sajani
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Dr. Sharon Malone
On Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads with Lemonada Premium I'm Josh Mankiewicz and I hope you'll join us for season four of Dateline Missing in America. In each episode of Dateline's award winning series, we will focus on one missing persons case and hear from the families, the friends and the investigators, all desperate to find them. You will want to listen closely. Maybe you could help investigators solve a mystery.
- [00:58]
Reshma Sajani
Dateline Missing in America Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Lemonada hey midlifers, just a quick message before we get started. You can now listen to every episode of My Soul called Midlife Ad Free with Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free access to an exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, and so many more. It's just $5.99 a month and a great way to support the work we do. Go ad free and get bonus content when you hit subscribe on this show and Apple Podcasts. Make Life Suck Less with Fewer Ads with Lemonada Premium. Welcome to my so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani. It can be easy to focus on things we lose as we get older. Things that are changing in a negative way. But it's important to remember what we also gain as we age. Wisdom. Experience. Perspective. Discernment. Resilience. Humility. Gratitude. Dr. Sharon Malone says that there's this like unique freedom during our midlives because we're just released from a lot of things that have occupied our mental and physical space. Many of us have shed the people pleasing aspect of our personalities and we're just able to focus on what we really want and what we really need. And let me tell you, there's a real power in that. Dr. Sharon Malone is a nationally known expert in women's health and the New York Times bestselling author of Grown Woman talk. She's the chief medical advisor at Alloy Women's Health, a telehealth company that focuses on women over 40. Before joining Alloy, Dr. Malone was a partner at one of the oldest and most successful OBGYN medical practices in Washington, D.C. i call her the OG of menopause advocacy because, believe it or not, as commonplace as it may feel to have all these conversations about hot flashes and hormone replacement therapy, it just wasn't talked about until pretty Damn recently. And Dr. Malone, she credits her friend Michelle Obama for helping her put menopause on the map. Back in 2020, they did a podcast together where Michelle talked about menopause. And their conversation, to be honest, just really got the ball rolling. And so I'm so glad they did because now we've all benefited, all of us, from a more open and honest conversation about our menopause symptoms. So let's. Let's listen to my conversation with the truth teller herself, Dr. Sharon Malone. Dr. Malone, we talk a lot on this show about our midlife mindset and how it varies, basically for everybody. So what does this time in your life mean to you? I wanna just bring up. I interviewed Brooke Shields recently, and she said you're either the hot girl at the bar or. Or you're the lady in Depends, which I thought was so funny. Right. So it's like, what does this middle part mean to you?
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Dr. Sharon Malone
You know, the middle part to me, to be quite honest with you. Well, actually, let's be clear. I'm beyond the middle. Okay. I'm probably in the fourth quarter, so let me remember the middle. The middle part can be difficult. And I say those years, let's say between, say, 45 and 60, you know, they can be hard. It's a lot going on in your life at that time. And it's also adjusting to not being the hot girl at the bar, you know, and realizing that you've got a new identity. And I think when you get to be really happy is when you realize you don't have to be the hot girl in the bar. You can be the smart girl at the bar.
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Reshma Sajani
You know, last year you wrote this article in Ms. Magazine about. About Kamala Harris and how she was changing the perception, what it means to be an older woman. You're also very good friends with Michelle Obama. I've always wanted to be just like Michelle Obama. She's so incredible. Another conversation. But when I look at Kamala and I look at Michelle, I mean, they make me feel excited about aging. What do you think is the common thread about them and aging or other women like them. Right. Who you really see, see them kind of crushing in every aspect of their life the older they get.
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Dr. Sharon Malone
I think it has to do really with the mindset. There's the mindset and then there's also the part about keeping physically active and healthy. You know, because if you feel good and you're healthy, then you're able to do all these great things in midlife and beyond. I think that our visual image of what an older woman or a midlife woman is supposed to look like. Powerful women, you know, we're thinking Margaret Thatcher. Right. You know, we're thinking. We're not thinking Kamala Harris. And we've always been out there. But the difference is people haven't been owning that space. You know, we spend a lot of time in this youth obsessed culture trying to pretend like you're not as old as you are.
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Reshma Sajani
Right.
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Dr. Sharon Malone
And I think that we are all now getting to the place where you're like, yeah, you know, hey, I'm 66 years old. Deal with it. You know, I am better now than I was 20 years ago. That's no question. And we're reinventing ourselves. You know, you're not saying that, you know, it's not our parents and grandparents generation where you think of retirement. It's something like when you're done. Yeah. And you're just, you know, wasting time until you die. No, we're still thinking of new things and exciting things to do.
- [07:01]
Reshma Sajani
Now, I know a little more about Michelle Obama's workout routine because she talks about it. But you, you made an interesting point there that it really, it, it feels like physical vigor is a big part of it. It's like there's deciding when you get to a certain age of like, I'm gonna be in the best physical shape of my life or I'm gonna commit to my physical, you know what I mean? Fitness. Even if the world is telling me right my bones are supposed to be cracking. Do you think that's a big part of it?
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Dr. Sharon Malone
Well, you know, I wanna be clear because there are people that are at levels that many of us will never achieve. Let's just be clear. We can't all be Halle Berry. We can't all be Michell Obama.
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Reshma Sajani
Not her arms. God, I want to be her. I want her arms. Right.
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Dr. Sharon Malone
But you know what? We can always be our best selves. And that just means simple things. I mean, you don't have to, you know, hire a trainer and spend thousands of dollars on workout routines and protein powders. And elixirs. You know, it's just a matter of being able to do functional things. And that's why I said being active, being physical and in your daily life, you know, it doesn't. That's why I want people to understand it's functional functionality that we're looking for as we age, you know, and not necessarily focusing so much on how we look. Yeah, it's great to look great. All right, I understand that. But as we age, the most important thing that you should be focusing on is what do you want to be able to do?
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Reshma Sajani
Right.
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Dr. Sharon Malone
You know, I have. I. It. It hits me all the time, because as I'm in and out of airports all over the country, and then those wheelchairs line up when you're on the jetway.
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Reshma Sajani
Yes. And I'm like, no, I want to be able to walk out of this. It's funny you say that. This morning, it was a family Friday, so I took my son to school and his public school. He's on the fifth floor. And there was so much gratitude that I had. You know what I mean? Being able to walk up those stairs with him and match him. Right. And, like, get to the fifth floor and not behaving right. So I think that the point about functionality is, is there anything that you recommend? Is it as simple as when given the option, walk, don't get an Uber, or when given the option, take the stairs?
- [09:18]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Exactly. It's just figuring out how to be active in your daily life. And I'll give you an example. You know, I'm the youngest of eight kids. All right? So my mother. Imagine, eight kids. I'm the last of eight.
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Reshma Sajani
Wow. She's just like, I'm done.
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Dr. Sharon Malone
She was more than done, but she was horrified when I was born, actually. But my mother didn't have an exercise plan. You know, she was a busy woman. She cleaned, she worked, she. You know, all the things that you normally do that we don't do for ourselves anymore. That was her exercise plan, just being, you know, physically active. And I think that we live in a very sedentary world, and particularly now that we've got zooms and we don't even have to get in the car and go somewhere. So be intentional and give yourself a little bit of grace and just say that I'm not doing this for a particular visual outcome.
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Reshma Sajani
Right.
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Dr. Sharon Malone
I'm doing it because this is how I want to be. And, you know, I. You know, yeah, everybody, I'd like to look like I did when I was 40. That's not going to happen. So.
- [10:25]
Reshma Sajani
Right. But you want to be able to be okay with that, right? I mean, every time I know that I can go for a run and I can make it for 40 minutes and I just give so much grace to God for that, right? For like my body being able to work. You know, Margaret Mead once said, there's no greater power in the world than the zest of a post menopausal woman. Why is that true biologically, Dr. Malone?
- [10:49]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Well, because you're released from a lot of things that have occupied your mental and physical space. I mean, it takes a lot to, you know, know to run a household, to raise children. All of those things that really suck up your mental and spiritual energy. And once you get to the point where you know, wow, kids are gone, you know, your relationship, it is what it is. You know, you're, you have given up that possibility that you're going to turn somebody into someone else. You are not. Let me be the first to tell you, you've got it. And you've made peace with a lot of things in your life. And there really is to be said about losing that people pleasing aspect of our personalities as women. So you get to this point in life and you're like, no, I don't want to do that, or yes, I really would like to do it and shed all the reasons why we don't do the things that we want to do. It's not just saying no, it's saying yes. And we get that unique freedom at this point in our lives because. And again. And you're freed from the male gaze. You know, you get to be a person, not a woman, that's looking for someone else's approval of who you are. And that's immensely powerful. Let me tell you.
- [12:09]
Reshma Sajani
It really well. And I just, I wanna, just sit. I've been really thinking, it's funny, we were meant to talk today. I've just been really been thinking about how you can turn that switch on, how you. Cause I feel like a lot of women in my life, they're still longing for the male gaze. A lot of the conversation is about, oh my God, I could be naked walking down the street and nobody looks at me anymore. And they're doing all the things right to get the male gaze. Even though we intellectually know there's enormous freedom from not. I mean, the amount of time I have to spend doing my hair, my makeup, just to walk out the freaking door right is insane. Right? I get that time back because ultimately it's about time. But I Still find how you make that real switch authentically, honestly. Right. From knowing what you know and genuinely feeling that. Do you have any wisdom on that?
- [13:05]
Dr. Sharon Malone
I think it's wisdom, it's experience. Because there is a point in time where you realize there's nothing you're going to do that's going to get that back. Not at least the way you may be looking for it. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean it's not like, oh, throw my hands up in the air and I give up. No, you get to do the things that are pleasing to you. You know, I wear things because I like it or I think it's cute. I think it's cute, you know, and it may not be. No. Is it going to involve, you know, cleavage and bare midriffs? No, it's not. Yeah, but you really get the power to be able to say, I'm dressing for me, for me, it's comfortable, I like it, I think I look cute. And you know what it's sort of my girlfriends and I talk about this all the time, is that, you know, we're not trying to compare ourselves to a 30 year old. You're just saying, I just want to say let's get graded on the curve, okay? And if you look at that and you say, hey, I can feel really good about myself because I am not trying to be 30, I'm trying to be the best 60 some year old woman I can be. And there's a lot of confidence that you get from that.
- [14:23]
Reshma Sajani
See, and I, some of the women I've interviewed, it's actually had the reverse effect. It's actually created, attracted more attention because when you start doing it for you, there's a sense of like swag, right? And a sense of like she's got something extra, right. And like it's appealing, right. And people will be attracted to that because again, it's not about letting go like you're saying, right. It's about doing it for you. I think there's a really, really powerful, powerful thing in what you're saying and what I think there's just an opportunity to really kind of teach and move culture. Do you think that the culture though is going allow us to do that? Right. And is it moving in the right direction?
- [15:01]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Let's see. I think that as more and more of us, as middle aged women and beyond step into that, own it, we'll get used to seeing what that looks like. You know, I think that people will be okay with that in term rather than trying to, you know, turn back the hands of time. And yes, you know, again, we all, everybody wants to be attractive and feel good about themselves. Yes. But you don't have to try to chase something that's never going to happen to feel good about yourself. That's the message. And as we see women who are out there, I mean, role models are very powerful. I mean, when you see Michelle Obama, when you see Naomi Watts, when you see Brooke Shields and Oprah, when you see how these women are not just trying to be older, you know, versions of their former selves, they're really stepping into who they are now. And once you see that, growing older is not something to fear. And I think that's what most women deal with, is that, you know, I will be irrelevant or again, I'm not going to be attractive or whatever. No. When you see that and you say, wow, there's a lot of life that's ahead of me. And I'll give you a great example. I'm here at the Vineyard because one of my dearest and oldest friends, we went to high school together. She just graduated yesterday from Harvard. She got her master's in education at 65 years old.
- [16:39]
Reshma Sajani
That's incredible.
- [16:40]
Dr. Sharon Malone
And we're here to celebrate.
- [16:42]
Reshma Sajani
That's incredible. That is incredible. Yes, that's something. That's incredible. What I mean, right? It's like you're just. There's so much life in this period, right. And so much to do. And I think, I think there's that. That's really inspirational. I don't know about you, but I'm always trying to figure out how to work smarter, not harder. I love automating our post meeting follow ups or streamlining how we communicate and collaborate across teams. This is why I love Fireflies. It turns your meetings into action so you can focus on achieving results. Fireflies is the number one AI teammate that transcribes, summarizes and analyzes your conversations so you can get the most out of every meeting. It's a smarter way to work. It generates personalized notes, finds information, takes actions on next steps, and develops workflows to create internal efficiencies. 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Dr. Sharon Malone
Well, you have to go way back to the beginning of our healthcare system and it was never designed really for women. I don't think it really took into account our needs and it never really gave the seriousness that our health concerns should have received. Just the mere notion that women weren't included in medical research until 1993. Just the mere notion that most of women's things that we complain about and we know to be real, we get told, oh, it's all in your head, or you're just being hysterical, or there's an eye roll when you complain about certain things and people even saying, okay, yeah, well you have it, what are you gonna do? Deal with it. You know, that's sort of been the history of how women have been treated for time immemorial. This is not new. And we also, as women are often intimidated, you know, the balance, the male, female balance about who, who your doctor is, you know, now we've got many, many, many more female doctors than there ever were before. So there's that patriarchal thing. You know, the doctor says don't bother the doctor, don't pay, don't, you know, waste their time kind of thing. So we kept a lot of things. So that's the history of the doctor patient relationship, which is changing and must change. But here's the rubber. Now that we kind of know that this is not the way it should be. Well, we've got other forces that are interfering with that relationship. And that is really the, what I call the corporatization of medicine.
- [26:43]
Reshma Sajani
Tell me more.
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Dr. Sharon Malone
We don't have personal. You know, your doctor. I was in practice for 30 years. I was in one place. I saw generations. You know, I. You grew up. You know me, I know your parents. I delivered your children. That's no longer going to be the lived experience of most women because doctors now, by and large, are employees.
- [27:04]
Reshma Sajani
Right?
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Dr. Sharon Malone
And so the, the point of the book was to give you a little bit of a heads up about that, because however you thought the doctor patient relationship was supposed to be, it's not that now and it's not going to be. And it's more important than ever that you know how to interact in this system, because it has changed. I mean, you doctors now have, you know, they've got 15 minutes.
- [27:30]
Reshma Sajani
Yes.
- [27:31]
Dr. Sharon Malone
And you've got, and 15 minutes is.
- [27:32]
Reshma Sajani
Not a lot of time.
- [27:34]
Dr. Sharon Malone
It's not your fifth. Your appointment is 15 minutes. So you're going to spend at least half of that time getting dressed and undressed. So the real amount of doctor time is really very short. So we've got to be a little bit more organized and a little bit more innovative about how we deliver care because we've just, you know, healthcare in 2025 is not what it was 30 years ago.
- [27:58]
Reshma Sajani
How do we change what the relationship that doctors have about women and their pain? I'll give you an example. I had a breast cancer scare a couple months ago, right? I went in for my routine mammogram. They saw something I needed to come back for a biopsy. And as I was getting the instructions for my biopsy, they're like, it's not a big deal. You can like, come in. It's a little pinch, you know what I mean? It'll be fine. Doctor speak. Doctor speak.
- [28:30]
Dr. Sharon Malone
It'll hurt a little bit.
- [28:31]
Reshma Sajani
It'll hurt a little bit. So of course my husband's like, I need to come with you. I'm like, ah, I got it. We're good. You know what I mean? Didn't have anybody come with me, didn't cancel a meeting. I had a speech that night, right? And as you know, breast biopsies hurt like a bitch, right? And it was painful, right? Like, I was. Should not have been doing anything for the next day, maybe two days, right? I definitely should have had my husband there to, you know, take me Home. And it's vulnerable. Right, because you're also still waiting to hear whether your whole life is going to change. Right. Like so, you know, I shared in what I wrote about this experience. I'll share with you. It's like, you know, from girlhood and well into midlife, women are made to feel, are made to believe that perfection is the gold standard of success. We're taught to shrink everything about ourselves that challenges this impossible ideal, this relentless pressure shows up all over my life, from miscarriages to C sections to now during my breast cancer scare. So my question to you, Dr. Malone, is why do we do this to ourselves? Why do you've treated so many women, especially women of color, why do we do this to ourselves? And how do we change these age old misconceptions that we have about women's strength or women's care? Is there a deeper, more insidious reason? And how do we, how do we shift the cycle?
- [30:03]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Well, you know, I'm going to make a big generalization here and that is like, where do we derive our self worth from? And I think for women, we are constantly having to justify our worth because just being a woman is not enough. So you have to prove to the world you've got to work harder, you've got to get out there, you've got to show that you can do it just to like a man can in just about every aspect of your life. And you have to say to yourself, I'm enough. And I'll give you, I'll give you a great example. And that is, you know, not to get political, but the way that way, the way that we as women approach things, as opposed to how men do generalization, you get offered a big promotion at work, you know, and obviously you're offered it because they think you deserve it. And you go through all these machinations about, oh my God, I don't know if I can do this, you know, maybe I don't have enough experience to do this. Should I? Blah, blah, blah. You know, you're questioning all these things about whether or not you are capable. A man in that same situation with half your qualifications will say, hey, do you want to be CEO of this company? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can do that. Sure. We see that time and time and time again. And I think that we don't really trust our innate ability. We have it. But, you know, this is how society has really made us feel as women. We're socialized this way. We are. Our value is based upon what we can do for other People not what, not who we are and what we are just innately being. So. And that is going to take, oh my, I mean we start, you know, we are chipping away with it with the next generation. But you know, I have daughters and they kind of have the same thing. They don't walk into a situation and say, sure, I, why not? You know, and that's the boy girl thing. Boy, that's a big one.
- [32:20]
Reshma Sajani
I mean, I call it swag, right? And it is really about teaching swag. I'll say this, you know, Dr. Mull, especially in the onslaught of the attack on De and I, right, you already, before that had overqualified women and people of color walking in those rooms and still thinking that they don't belong. Now we're making a lie about meritocracy, you know what I mean? And so all of that feeling, or I would say a con that we've been told that we don't belong there is going to be amplified. So I tell my young women and girls who code all the time, like, no more. You don't get to ask the question of ah, do I really belong? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you, you, you would not have got, you know what I mean? You had to be twice as good to be here. So like, we gotta step over that piece. Like we can't entertain that anymore, right?
- [33:09]
Dr. Sharon Malone
And isn't it ironic that the people that are, that are so gung ho about eliminating DEI are the least qualified people in the history of America to ever make that judgment about other people. It's pretty, it's pretty interesting, I should say.
- [33:26]
Reshma Sajani
It is very interesting. I would agree it is very interesting. But this point about. It's so powerful what you said, Dr. Malone. This point about trusting ourselves and our ability, teaching, that is more important than ever before. Ever before. You know what doesn't belong in your summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. While you're planning beach trips, barbecues and three day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. That's why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. With Mint, you can get the coverage and the speed you're used to, but for way less money. And for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. So while your friends are sweating over data overages and surprise charges, you'll be chilling, literally and financially. Say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. And the best part? You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced Wireless and get three months of unlimited service from Mint Mobile for $15 a month. I'm always traveling, either for work or family vacations, so I need a phone service that works wherever I am at. Which is why I always rely on Mint Mobile. They have the fastest, most reliable service without hurting my wallet. What more can I ask for this year? Skip breaking a sweat and break in the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com midlife that's mintmobile.com midlife upfront payment of $45 required equivalent to $15 a month limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. I choose Function because it's the only health platform that gives you access to the kind of data most people never see and the insights to actually inside Function. You can test over 160 biomarkers from heart and hormones to toxins, inflammation and stress. You can also access multi region MRI and CT scans, all tracked in one secure place. Over time, it's a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body. That's why top health leaders like Dr. Mark Hyman, Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Jeremy London are all behind Function Health. The summer grind has been real. Sun's up, longer sleep, shorter social pressures, nonstop. It seems like everyone is talking about being burnt out. Behind the highlight reels are high functioning people quietly falling apart, low energy, fragile mood, libido, Mia Function helps you find signals under the symptoms. Function puts names and numbers to the crashes no one can see because seeking information about what's off is the first step to getting yourself back. Did you know that there are nearly 30 biomarkers that can impact your skin more than your skincare routine? Because breakouts, dullness, dryness, redness. They're not just surface issues, they're internal signals and Function helps you see them clearly. Function is the first health membership that gives you access to 100 plus biomarkers across the whole body. Metabolism, inflammation, heart, liver, hormones and more. Plus MRIs and CT scans too. Medical grade insights tracked over time explained in plain language. For example, low levels of vitamin D can slow skin cell turnover and healing and zinc, iron and vitamin A are all key nutrients for skin repair and resilience. Recently you've been in the sun. Your routine's off. Your skin's talking. Function helps you stop blaming the products and start understanding the patterns. Because your skin is a mirror and function gives you the data. To read it, learn more and join using my link, visit www.functionhealth.com midlife.
- [37:52]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Hey.
- [37:52]
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- [39:06]
Dr. Sharon Malone
An Australian hiker travels to the American west to walk a wilderness trail. Wasn't afraid to be out on his own. But Eric Robinson vanished in the Hyuenta Mountain. I remember thinking, Eric, what were you thinking, mate? I'm Dave Cawley. Join me on my podcast Uinta Triangle where I travel the world to answer the question what happened to Eric Robinson? Follow Uinta Triangle. That's Uinta Triangle on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen.
- [39:47]
Reshma Sajani
I want to ask you something, Dr. Malone. So you I'm sure you saw the new study that came out this week, right? That found that mothers in America are facing a mental health crisis. According to the report. Right. 64% of moms are experiencing a substantial decline in mental health. No shocker. Mothers are now reporting that they're in fair to poor mental health higher than ever before. And these declines started before the pandemic. What is happening?
- [40:17]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Well, you know, it's interesting when I was doing a little bit of research and we were looking at this disparity data and I was saying, okay, well, what are the number one reasons for, you know, maternal deaths? And that includes, you know, pregnancy, delivery and then six weeks afterwards. And some even go out as far as a year. And overall the number one cause for maternal deaths was mental health, either addiction or depression or something related to mental health. That, that's huge. We don't talk about that aspect of it. For black women, the number one reason for maternal death is cardiovascular disease. So there's that.
- [41:02]
Reshma Sajani
That's interesting.
- [41:03]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Yeah, it's cardiovascular disease. And, and again, sometimes, and not being adequately treated for that cardiovascular disease, even during pregnancy is problematic. And that's why I said we need more education as far as doctors are concerned, because they need to know that. But you know what I think is happening for women and about the mental health piece of it is we are often alone raising our children. You know, you come home, you're a new mother and I don't know about, you know, you, but I didn't have family. You know, I'm working, I've got, you know, a full time job.
- [41:45]
Reshma Sajani
I had, I had incredible caregivers that helped me. But yeah, I didn't have my mother popping in to.
- [41:50]
Dr. Sharon Malone
No, you don't have that community that sort of wraps you up and takes care of you and makes sure that, oh my goodness, I don't know how this is doing, their motherhood really. You know, when you say it takes a village, it really does. It takes a village to support a new mom. And too many us are alone and overwhelmed and even the most well meaning spouses or partners, it's never 50, 50, it's you. You know, it falls to you.
- [42:19]
Reshma Sajani
And I think, and I think we're also like supposed to not complain. You know what I mean? It's like I have to have these conversations, you know, with my friends who are moms of like, God, we love and we hate our children all at the same time. Meaning like, you know, or we love and hate. Like it's just. And if you're being honest, right, sometimes you're just like, I wanna smush you and love you. And sometimes you're like, ah, you know what I mean? Like, where can I go away? Where can I hide? And when you're honest about that, like, if you're, if I were to say that on TikTok, I'd be taken down, right? It's like, they will come for you. And so there's some amount of. Like, there's some amount of policing of the honest, authentic experiences of what it's like to be a mother in America. That's deeply problematic. And I think that's why women suffer silently. And I think. And this is a deeply cultural reason of, like, we've just made it so damn hard.
- [43:15]
Dr. Sharon Malone
And it gets back to what you were saying earlier, where perfection is the standard. Now, I can guarantee you this, all right? I'm the last of eight children. The things that we worry about as parents would have never occurred to my mother. She's like, yeah, whatever. You know, go do that. You know, we have. So there's so many rules and this. And in a car seat, and you need to have this, and you can't have cow's milk before this. I mean, we. That's a lot of pressure. And you're. There are a lot of opportunities for you to feel like you're failing.
- [43:49]
Reshma Sajani
Oh, my God. My father. So my parents were refugees. My father was a civil engineer, so he would go visit sites, and he would, like, take us, leave us in the car, lock the door, and go do his job because he couldn't afford childcare. Right. Can you imagine? You know what I mean? Can you. And we didn't have, like, a nice car. You know what I mean? It was like, you couldn't do that. But they did whatever they had to do to put food on the table and to make it work.
- [44:17]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Right. I guarantee you all the stuff. And what makes it even harder for new mothers is that every time I had a baby and my kids are only two years apart, I have three. Every time I had another baby, there'd be a new device, a new rule, something else you had to buy. I'm like, wait a minute. Didn't I already do this? No, no, no. Can't put them to sleep that way. You got to put them asleep or you're gonna kill them. You know, it just kept. And it's just. It's too much. It's just too much. And, you know, I don't know that we're ever gonna get back to it. Simpler way, but. But there's a lot of judgment. I mean, you know, I. I remember. I remember when my kids were in, you know, elementary school, and then there. If you live in certain environments, then there's the competitiveness amongst the moms.
- [45:08]
Reshma Sajani
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [45:09]
Dr. Sharon Malone
I mean. You mean your child's not doing that. You're going here, you're and they're not signed up for this. That's a lot. It's a lot.
- [45:17]
Reshma Sajani
It's a lot. I mean, I don't even know half the time what's happening at the school or with my, you know, like, I have to rely on all these other amazing mom to be like, wait, when's the school play try out? Or like, did I miss the audition? Or. But it's just, you got to give yourself grace. So I can't let you go without tapping into your wisdom because you are a menopause world renowned expert. And I thought it was interesting that you credit Michelle Obama with kind of kickstarting you into public menopause advocacy. Like, how did that happen?
- [45:49]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Well, well, you know, she and I have talked about this for the longest time, you know, because we started this conversation, believe it or not. I have been even way back in the early days, even when I was delivering babies, I always had menopause as part of my practice because I inherited a practice from the two older doctors. And so from day one, I had women who were 80, I had 18 year olds and everybody in between. So that was always a part of what I did. And so when we would have our little gatherings and you know, and we're all women of a certain age at that point, and we always talked about menopause. And I think that she, when she had, when she did her podcast and that was five years ago, she decided, she said, yeah, you know, we're, you know, that conversation we were having, well, we're going to have it on the podcast because I think that people don't get this. And she really, to be able to, as I said, own where you are and to open up about it and to have this conversation because so many women.
- [46:55]
Reshma Sajani
She was og menopause. That's so powerful. Like using her platform, right? To like, live out loud.
- [47:01]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Yeah, I'm like, I used to look at people all the time. I'm like, girl, why? Why are you suffering? Like, I don't get it, you know, particularly when we know that we have something that will fix this and it's not new news. We've known this for quite a while. But there's another conversation about how the conversation got lost.
- [47:22]
Reshma Sajani
Do you think it's gotten lost? Like.
- [47:24]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Oh, it definitely got lost. Oh, absolutely. Because there was, you know, hormone therapy has been around since 1942. So not new.
- [47:32]
Reshma Sajani
Not new. Right?
- [47:33]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Not new. But there was a study that came out in 2002 and that's when it started linking, oh, hormone therapy and Breast cancer. And that was such a powerful negative that women were like, oh, no, I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want it. This stuff is because, again, you fear breast cancer more than you fear heart disease.
- [47:53]
Reshma Sajani
True.
- [47:54]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Which you're more likely to die of than you are to die of breast cancer. But that really shut down the hormone conversation for 20 years. I kept having it and I kept saying, you know, no, that's not true. It didn't say that. It didn't say that. But you know how hard it is to put that genie back in the bottle.
- [48:10]
Reshma Sajani
Have we been able to put it back in the bottle or is it still. We're.
- [48:13]
Dr. Sharon Malone
We're doing it, you know, and I think that a lot of it has to do with, again, a lot of the public conversations. There are, you know, people on social media who are talking about it. You know, everybody. Brooke Shields talks about it. Naomi Watts talks about it. And once you normalize that conversation and then you have. You have to get your information from trusted sources. Because now that the. The marketplace has awakened to the fact that, oh, menopausal, you know, women of a certain age have symptoms, well, then let me sell you something for that. So, you know, you're bombarded by a lot of stuff.
- [48:53]
Reshma Sajani
I know, cream, but. So that's not good too, Rick. And there are a lot of snake oil salesmen, like, selling you creams and this and that and.
- [49:00]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Yeah.
- [49:01]
Reshma Sajani
Doctor, like. So you're an OG Truth teller. I feel like you see around corners before other people see them. What are we kind of missing in the midlife conversation or what's going to cost.
- [49:13]
Dr. Sharon Malone
You know, I think we are going to have more of the prevention conversation, you know, because I think that too much of medicine as it is practiced today is treating diseases and symptoms. You know, and even when I was in my practice, when I talked about menopause, it was a conversation that I had with women when they were 40. I didn't wait till you were 50.
- [49:37]
Reshma Sajani
Right.
- [49:38]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Because there are a lot of things, like most things in life, if you enter them in better health, you'll weather whatever that is, you know. Yes, you might. You're still probably going to need some hormones. But just generally speaking, there are so many things that you need to start preparing for old age. Like I said, you can't wait till. You can't lift your. Your luggage.
- [50:00]
Reshma Sajani
Right. You got to. And you got to put in that strength training, you know, when you're 35. Right. Earlier.
- [50:06]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Right. And so I think that that's really what we are going to start to do, is don't think that I say a lot of things. I say, you know, no one's coming to save you, and don't wait until something's broken before you try to fix it. You know, just be a little bit more proactive about things. And again, it's not hard and it's not like, you know, this is not rocket sciences and. But I think that if women are motivated properly, you know, I say this all the time, don't exercise because you're trying to lose weight, because you're not going to. I hate to tell you this, but exercise because, again, you're trying to be intentional and functional. And I want to live and I want to be strong. And if you understand that, because I've had a million conversations where they go, oh, I went to the gym three times this month. And, you know, and I went and I didn't lose lose any weight. And I'm like, I know you don't, you know, but just know that.
- [51:04]
Reshma Sajani
Right, Right. But you're so right. I think the focus is really going to be on longevity and like.
- [51:09]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Yeah.
- [51:09]
Reshma Sajani
And strength.
- [51:11]
Dr. Sharon Malone
Yeah.
- [51:12]
Reshma Sajani
And. And like, instead of like, oh, my, like, reacting to what you're experiencing. But, like, how do you get ahead of that? I do want to ask you one thing before I let you, like, I realize I didn't ask you this, so you're such a huge champion for self empowerment. I want to go back to my breast cancer biopsy situation. There are so many women I wrote about it, have like, reached out to me and been like, thank you so much for sharing that with me. If you were to take. Go back to that scenario, what are the. What should I have said? What are the questions I should have asked? And like, what does advocacy look like for women who are invariably going to find themselves in this situation?
- [51:49]
Dr. Sharon Malone
I think that I'll tell you how I approached it with my patients because there is, you know, there is that moment when you get an abnormal mammogram when the abnormality could be very small. And I would say a lot of doctors don't like to say anything because they don't want to be wrong. I don't want to do right. And I felt like this. I said, I don't know what you have, but let me tell you that based on this findings, nine times out of 10, it's nothing. So just understand that. You know, let's tamp down the, the, the anxiety a bit here. And even if there is something, it's early. This is the whole point of doing this. You're going to go on and live the rest of your life. And I think that when you get that, most people get an abnormal mammogram, and they've already gone to, I'm dead in six, I'm going to be dead.
- [52:44]
Reshma Sajani
I'm going to widow my children, my husband. Right?
- [52:47]
Dr. Sharon Malone
And again, as I told you, I've had. We've had far more success. I mean, think about it. 90% of people, 90 plus percent of people with stage one breast cancer, which is the whole reason why we do mammograms in the first place, will go on and live the rest of their natural lives. Does it mean, okay, so cancer, you know, it's sort of reframing that conversation. Don't give cancer that. The breast cancer, the outsized part of your life. Remember, that's how my sister is no longer with us. She let it take over everything. So you know what? And I think just a little gentle reframing on that always helps. And the other thing I always do with my. I used to do with my patients, and I said, you know what? As soon as I get the results, as soon as I get them, I will call you and we will talk about it. I'm not gonna say, make an appointment, come back two weeks from now. Cause, you know, that's two weeks of anxiety that you're sitting there wa to find out, oh, it's nothing as a good or bad, we're going to have that conversation. So make sure, you know, when you ask questions, you're like, okay, well, how is this going to be handled? When am I going to get my. When should I expect my results? And how are you going to communicate them to me? Do I have to come back or are you going to tell me? Because a lot of people don't like to give news over the phone. And in my way of thinking, you've already thought the worst, you know, so I'm gonna tell you, and then we're gonna make a plan for what's, you know, for what's the next thing.
- [54:16]
Reshma Sajani
I love that. That is so, so helpful. Thank you, Dr. Malone. This is such a wonderful conversation. I'm blessed for you and your wisdom and your advocacy and for your time. So thank you so much.
- [54:27]
Dr. Sharon Malone
You are so welcome. It was quite fun.
- [54:36]
Reshma Sajani
Thank you so much to Dr. Sharon Malone for talking with me today. Make sure you check out her book because it is awesome grown woman talk, your essential companion for healthy living. One last thing. Thank you so much for listening to My so Called Midlife. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonade Premium yet, now's the perfect time because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you're going to unlock exclusive bonus content like me and Katie Serena talking about when we first started having negative self images of our bodies that you won't hear anywhere else. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app that's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. Thanks. We'll see you next week. I'm your host Reshma Sajani. Our associate producer is Israel Saura Acevez and our senior producer is Chrissy Pease. This series is sound designed by Ivan Khourayev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltock. Our VP of New content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to our development team, Oha Lopez, Jamila Zara Williams and Alex McGowan. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review. And let us know how you're doing in Midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this show@speakpipe.com midlife follow my so Called Midlife wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime members. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye. Hey My so Called Midlife listeners. Our network Lemonada is working on a new call and advice show hosted by a remarkable family therapist. One of her main goals is to remind you that you are the expert on your child, even if it doesn't feel that way when you're faced with uncomfortable conversations, meltdowns and tough decisions. But as a parent, I know we sometimes face challenges that feel too awkward or just too overwhelming to handle on your own. So if you're a parent of a child between 6 and 21 and you're facing one of those things, why don't you send in a question? Our host might offer you real time advice on anything from mental health challenges to big family secrets, from dating to social media. Whatever it is, we want to help reach out at Bit ly parentingpodcastquestions that's Bit ly Parenting Podcast questions.