Podcast Summary

My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani

Episode: How to Fight Better with Oona Metz
Date: January 7, 2026

Main Theme

Reshma Saujani explores the nuances of conflict, divorce, and emotional growth in midlife with psychotherapist, author, and divorce group leader Oona Metz. Together, they discuss how midlife is uniquely challenging for relationships, how to fight more productively, and how the process of divorce can be seen as a journey of self-discovery and empowerment—particularly for women. Oona’s new book, Unhitched, provides guidance for navigating the emotional arc of divorce, and this episode offers actionable advice for anyone considering, going through, or supporting someone in divorce.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Divorce Feels Different at Midlife

[03:00 - 07:12]

• January and “Divorce Day”: The first working Monday of January sees the highest rate of people contacting divorce lawyers.
  • (03:00) “Cracks that were easy to ignore suddenly just feel impossible to avoid.” — Reshma
• Midlife Transitions: The pressures of routines resetting and life transitions often poke holes in marital stability.
• The Emotional Arc: Metz’s experience with divorce support groups informs her understanding that divorce is an emotional, not just logistical, process.

Why Oona Metz Wrote Unhitched

[05:13 - 07:12]

• From Experience to Expertise: After going through her own divorce, Oona launched women’s divorce support groups and realized existing divorce literature was badly outdated.
• “I know about the emotional journey of divorce, both personally and certainly professionally, and the book doesn’t exist, so I have to write it.” — Oona (06:38)

Divorce as an Opportunity for Growth

[07:12 - 09:05]

• Metz stresses that, for women, divorce can be harnessed for self-discovery—if they allow themselves to grieve fully.
• “In order to move on in your divorce, you have to let go. And in order to let go, you have to do the work of grieving.” — Oona (08:24)
• Women tend to “grieve,” while men more often “replace” (seek new partners quickly).

Grieving and Feeling: The Path Through

[09:05 - 11:28]

• Cultural and gendered expectations often prevent women from taking the time to truly feel.
• Grieving in community—like Oona’s support groups—is powerful, as hearing others articulate your feelings can create personal breakthroughs.
• Reshma admits: “I cry once every three years ... I know when a cry is coming, and I’ll look for a sad movie about a dog just to let it out.” (09:48)

Supporting Children Through Divorce and Co-Parenting

[12:05 - 13:32]

• New Research: It’s conflict, not divorce itself, that most damages kids.

  • “The most important thing that co-parents can do is to reduce the conflict between them, which can be really hard…and reduce any conflict that’s in front of the kids.” — Oona (12:14)

• Modeling healthy fighting and reconciliation (when married) can build resiliency; fighting without making up in divorce is damaging.

Why Women Initiate Most Heterosexual Divorces

[13:32 -16:00]

• Beyond the “three A’s” (Abuse, Addiction, Affairs), women are pushed by sustained inequality (disproportionate housework, emotional labor) and passivity (spouses treating them like a parent).
• “The woman has seven more hours of housework a week, and the man has one less hour.” — Oona referencing research (14:44)
• Many women describe their husbands as “like an additional child.”

Is Marriage Always Better for Men?

[18:32 - 20:04]

• Many younger women now view marriage as a “better deal for men,” yet Oona clarifies that healthy marriages work for both, but divorce can often benefit women more than men.

  • “Divorce is a good deal for women. … Women do better when they're divorced than men.” — Oona (19:02)

The Logistics, Trends, and Broader Culture of Divorce

[21:24 - 24:01]

• Finances and logistics (like high mortgage rates) are major barriers to divorce; Oona predicts divorce rates may increase when the economy improves.
• Current US divorce rate: Down to 42%, not 50%.
• People are delaying marriage, marrying older, and thus (perhaps) divorcing less.

Quiet Quitting Marriages: Staying, but Not Together

[24:46 - 25:58]

• Many couples delay legal divorce and live as roommates, “for the kids” or finances.
• Oona notes this can be viable for some, but often breeds resentment or stifles personal growth, especially when new relationships arise.

The Threat to No-Fault Divorce

[25:58 - 29:38]

• Oona explains the critical importance of current no-fault divorce laws.
  • If repealed: Women could be forced to prove abuse or other wrongdoing in court, increasing their exposure to violence and loss of privacy.
  • Quote: “Women are going to die. That’s what’s going to happen. Women are going to die.” — Oona (30:19)
  • These changes threaten women’s autonomy and safety and would exacerbate inequities, especially since 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Building a Support Team for Divorce

[31:21 - 34:36]

• Oona emphasizes not relying on a single friend for support, but assembling a “tribe” with diverse roles:
  • The practical friend (fixes your printer)
  • The celebrator (shares in victories)
  • The listener (holds space for pain without judgment)
  • Fellow divorcees (for lived experience)
  • The emergency contact (for medical or logistical needs)
• Divorce support groups, whether virtual or in-person, can fill critical gaps and reduce isolation.

The Role of Forgiveness

[34:36 - 37:51]

• Forgive yourself first: Everyone acts out of character under stress.
• Forgiveness doesn’t mean excusing or condoning harm, nor does it require reconciliation.
  • “If you want to forgive your ex … that can be between you and you. It’s not about ‘I forgive you so you can do it again.’ It’s about letting go.” — Oona (35:32)
• The key is to avoid being trapped by resentment; “Let go or be dragged.”

Actionable Steps for Women Contemplating Divorce

[38:15 - 39:32]

• Practice “micro-separations” if not ready to leave:

  • Make solo plans, pursue solo travel, sleep separately
  • Invest time in independent interests or neglected hobbies.
  • Test out new “parenting night” routines at home to build emotional strength and independence.

• Quote: “Anything you can do to strengthen your own self…will help, because divorce is stressful and heartbreaking, but there can be wonderful growth and healing on the other side.” — Oona (39:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:13] Reshma: “I’m not getting divorced. I’m not planning a divorce. But I loved [your book] anyway.”
• [08:24] Oona: “The opposite of love is not hate. … Both love and hate keep you attached. In order to move on, you have to let go. And to let go, you have to grieve. And to grieve, you have to feel.”
• [14:44] Oona: “When a man and a woman get married, the woman has seven more hours of housework a week, and the man has one less.”
• [19:02] Oona: “Women do better when they're divorced than men.”
• [30:19] Oona: “Women are going to die. That's what’s going to happen” (on the dangers of repealing no-fault divorce).
• [35:32] Oona: “If you want to forgive your ex … that can be between you and you… It's about letting go. … Let go or be dragged.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Divorce and January trends: [03:00 – 04:51]
• Oona’s story and book motivation: [05:13 – 07:12]
• The emotional journey of divorce: [07:12 – 09:05]
• Grieving in community: [10:29 – 11:28]
• Children and co-parenting: [12:05 – 13:32]
• Women leading in divorce: [13:32 – 16:00]
• Marriage as a “deal” for women: [18:32 – 20:04]
• Quiet quitting and logistics: [24:46 – 25:58]
• No-fault divorce explained: [25:58 – 29:38]
• Support groups and tribe-building: [31:21 – 34:36]
• Forgiveness and moving forward: [34:36 – 37:51]
• First steps for hesitant women: [38:15 – 39:32]

Tone

Empathetic, direct, occasionally humorous (“No fucks given—that clarity is amazing.”), yet deeply grounded and actionable. Oona provides both tough love and tangible support, while Reshma models vulnerability and curiosity.

Where to Find More

• Oona Metz’s Book & Resources: unametz.com
• Unhitched: Essential Divorce Guide for Women — Out January 13, 2026
• Community resources, online events, and support groups referenced on Oona’s website.

In sum:
This episode offers a compassionate, practical, and sometimes provocative look at the realities—and opportunities—of midlife relationship transitions. Anchored by Oona Metz’s expertise and Reshma Saujani’s relatably honest questioning, listeners come away understanding the power of grieving, the realities of modern marriage, the dangers posed by policy changes, and why support—both communal and self-generated—is essential for growth through and after divorce.