Pulling Yourself Forward with Tembi Locke

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Pulling Yourself Forward with Tembi Locke”

Podcast: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Host: Reshma Saujani (Lemonada Media)
Guest: Tembi Locke
Episode Date: December 3, 2025

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Main Theme

This episode features a vulnerable, soul-searching conversation between Reshma Saujani and Tembi Locke—author, actor, producer—centered on navigating midlife transitions, grief, reinvention, and the concept of "re-nesting" after loss and change. Together, they explore the art of pulling oneself forward through difficulty, living authentically, and reframing midlife not as a period of emptiness but of possibility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dance of Midlife: Acceptance, Wisdom, and Self-Compassion

• Tembi describes midlife as a dance or tango—sometimes leading, sometimes being led (03:34):

  “Midlife and I are in a tango, right? Sometimes it’s leading and sometimes I’m leading.” —Tembi (03:34)

• Both women reflect on learning to accept limitations and give themselves grace.
  • Reshma recalls her struggle at a late-night concert:

    “I gotta go to bed. Lauren, you gotta finish up, girl. You know, I mean, I gotta go to sleep.” —Reshma (04:57)

  • Tembi shares how she’s learned to drop self-criticism, observing what “fills her cup” or “drains her battery” (06:26; 07:23):

    “What is going to fill my cup up, and then what is going to drain the battery?” —Tembi (06:26)

• Key Practice: Tembi keeps a printed “cheat sheet” in her office of activities that bring her joy—a practical reminder for moments of depletion (08:20).

2. Identity Beyond Achievement: Introducing Ourselves as Humans, Not Resumes

• Tembi’s insight: At this stage, people care more about who you are, not just what you do:

  “I am fundamentally today someone who is really seeking to live the highest, best, most loving version of myself. … The times we’re living in call for more intimacy when we meet.” —Tembi (10:06)

• Reshma reflects on defaulting to leading with Girls Who Code for legitimacy and resisting vulnerability:

  “It doesn’t allow me to sit in my uncomfortableness or my vulnerability or like my fear of rejection.” —Reshma (17:14)

• Both agree that the journey is about integrating all versions of themselves and not hiding behind professional achievements (18:25–19:17).

3. Grief as a Catalyst for Growth and Reinvention

• Tembi recounts the profound shift after her husband’s death:

  “There was no way forward except through… to try to be in the world as authentically as I possibly could.” —Tembi (19:45–21:15)

• Parenting and grieving simultaneously was particularly isolating and tough.

  “I was a solo parent to a grieving child while I was also grieving.” —Tembi (22:13)

• The aftermath of loss led to new bravery and perspective:

  “Everything I need to do this role is in me. … I have nothing to lose because I had lost what at the time and in many ways was everything. You give, as the kids say, zero fucks, my favorite term.” —Tembi (24:04)

• Pulling Yourself Forward: The Italian phrase “C Ranti” guided her:

  “…To pull myself forward, I said, well, I’m also going to pull him with me because I don’t want to let him go. … You can do that hard thing, and you can bring your beloved with you.” —Tembi (26:18)

4. Re-Partnering After Loss: Making Space for “Big Loves”

• Tembi dispels the notion that loving a new partner means leaving her late husband behind:

  “To meet me is to also meet the life I had before we ever met. … We do things that pull him into the timeline that we are all living now.” —Tembi (28:54)

• Requires choosing partners capable of sharing expansive, “yes-and” love:

  “Now you’re just saying I’m here to… first of all, I cannot… the hierarchies of love… I’m in a yes and world and so I need to meet you in a yes and world.” —Tembi (31:56)

• Navigating a blended family and grief together with truth and grace:

  “You can kind of say whatever you need to say as long as you’re not doing it from a place of trying to intentionally hurt someone. Truth is your truth.” —Tembi (34:52)

5. Re-Nesting: Reframing the “Empty Nest”

• Tembi introduces ‘re-nesting’ as a powerful concept:

  “I refuse to accept that my life is suddenly now empty… I realized that what we’re actually doing in this stage is beginning a process of reframing what is our family dynamic?” —Tembi (42:00)

• Her summer in Sicily marked a time of emotional risk, facing blended family questions, and reimagining what family means (35:51–39:31).
• Re-nesting is about reclaiming time, identity, and dreams set aside to parent (43:35–45:03):

  “The reclamation work is returning to aspects and parts of who we were that… got put to the side, put in the margins… let me… reclaim some of that and bring it into my now.” —Tembi (43:35)

6. Strategies for Honoring Your Younger Self and Embracing Renewal

• Integrate, don’t separate, your ‘younger self’:

  “That 30-year-old who had all the fire, she’s very much present in the scene.” —Tembi (45:41)

• Leverage community, not just solo hustle, for midlife dreams:

  “There are people who are going to want to co-create this vision with me and how can I look around the room and see who can do that with me?” —Tembi (47:14)

• Ritual for grounding: Tembi’s daily cup of rose and hibiscus tea closes her day, marking it complete and soothing her mind (48:31–49:53):

  “The ritual… this day is complete, this day is done. I’m closing it with rose petals because rose is a symbol of the open heart. Hibiscus lowers blood pressure, which, hello, we need it in life.” —Tembi (48:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Midlife and I are in a tango, right? Sometimes it’s leading and sometimes I’m leading.” —Tembi, 03:34
• “What is going to fill your cup up or drain the battery?” —Tembi, 07:23
• “I am fundamentally today someone who is really seeking to live the highest, best, most loving version of myself.” —Tembi, 10:06
• “Everything I need to do this role is in me. I don’t have to do anything except show up. … You give… zero fucks, my favorite term.” —Tembi, 24:04
• “To pull myself forward, I said, well, I’m also going to pull him with me because I don’t want to let him go.” —Tembi, 27:30
• “To meet me is to also meet the life I had before we ever met.” —Tembi, 28:56
• “What we’re actually doing in this stage is beginning a process of reframing what is our family dynamic? … I refuse to accept that my life is suddenly now empty…” —Tembi, 42:00
• “That 30-year-old who had all the fire, she’s very much present in the scene.” —Tembi, 45:41
• “There are people who are going to want to co-create this vision with me and how can I look around the room and see who can do that with me?” —Tembi, 47:14
• “[My tea ritual] has changed everything. … This day is complete, this day is done.” —Tembi, 48:31

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Midlife as a Dance & Self-Compassion: 03:34–07:23
• Cheat Sheet for Joyful Practices: 08:20–09:16
• Beyond Professional Identity: 09:57–11:06
• Grief, Growth & Zero Fucks: 19:45–25:29
• Pulling Yourself Forward After Loss: 26:18–28:54
• Re-Partnering & “Holding Big Loves”: 28:54–34:52
• Renesting and Family Reimagination: 42:00–45:03
• Tactical Strategies & Rituals: 45:41–49:53

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Tone

The episode balances soulful vulnerability with practical wisdom, abundant warmth, and a spirit of possibility. Tembi’s and Reshma’s exchange is deeply empathetic, often humorous and always honest—full of metaphors, vivid storytelling, and a sense of holding space for uncertainty, grief, and hope alike.

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Summary Takeaways

• Midlife challenges aren’t about endings but about transformation, reclamation, and courageous forward motion.
• True self-care involves identifying what fills us and what drains us—and making it easy to choose replenishment.
• Grief can break us open, but it can also open the door to deeper authenticity and fearlessness.
• Identity is richer and more sustaining when rooted in soul and story, not just professional achievements.
• Love doesn’t run out; making space for past and present in blended families is possible with emotional generosity.
• Ritual—however simple—can provide powerful closure and grounding in complex times.

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Recommended: Read Tembi Locke’s new memoir, Someday Now, and follow the practices of grace, community, and re-nesting this episode inspires.

Transcript

[A]

Ever feel like you're navigating life's biggest changes alone? Well, you're not. I've been there too. I'm Tamsen Fadal, and on the Tamsen Show, I'm tackling the conversations we all need to have. Midlife, menopause, career, invention, relationships, and more. With expert advice and real unfiltered conversations. This is your go to guide for living better, feeling stronger, and taking charge of your well being. No topic is off limits. No conversation is too big. It's time to own it. Listen to the Tamsen show wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

Hey, it's me, Steve Burns. And I'm so glad you're here because you and I go way back, right? Yeah. And look at us now like we're all grown up. We've got this new podcast where we talk about all this grown up stuff and there's special guests like Jamie Lee Curtis and Bill Nye, but for the most part, it's about you. I mean, it's always been about you. From Lemonada Media, A Live with Steve burns is coming September 17th. Wherever you get your podcasts or you can watch every episode on YouTube. Lemonada.

[A]

Hey midlifers, just a quick message before we get started. You can now listen to every episode of My so Called Midlife ad free with Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free access to an exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, and so many more. It's just $5.99 a month and a great way to support the work we do. Go ad free and get bonus content when you hit subscribe on this show. And Apple Podcasts. Make life suck less with fewer ads with Lemonada Premium. Welcome to My so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani. I want you to meet someone who just blew my mind in the first five minutes of meeting her. Temby Locke. You may know her from her book From Scratch or the Netflix series it inspired, but she is so much more than her accomplishments. When I asked her how she introduces herself these days, she said she is someone seeking to live the most loving version of herself. Not the producer version, not the author version, the human version. Ah, I loved it. In our conversation, Temby opens up about the decades she spent supporting her husband through his illness. How grief can break you apart and also become a doorway to becoming the Next version of yourself and the surprising beauty of re nesting. That's right, Empty nest term is getting a rebrand. Parents of young adults, you're going to want to hear what she has to say. TEMBY also talks about her new memoir, Someday now, which I loved, and how we can rise up after the unimaginable and choose to live from a deeper, more honest place. Friends, this conversation felt like such a gift to me at this moment in my life. I just can't wait for you to hear it. So let's jump in. All right, temby, I'm so thrilled to be with you. And so we always start every episode with the same question, which is basically like, how's midlife treating you? Like, how would you describe this period of your life? Like, are you jazzed? Are you thrilled? Are you sad? Like, how do you feel?

[B]

Okay, so midlife and I are in a tango, right? Sometimes it's leading and sometimes I'm leading.

[A]

What's happening right now? Who's leading?

[B]

Well, you know, right now, today, midlife is leading. Like, literally before our call, things with the computer weren't charged, no gas in the car. You know, I was like, wow, wow, okay, here we are. And yet the wisdom that comes with this stage of life is you just submit to it. You just say, well, this is what today is. This is what is unfolding. I'm not going to rail against it. I'm not going to beat myself up about any of it. I'm going to be present with it. And actually, what is the learning tool? And for me, it was like, okay, Timby, it's time to refuel. And I wouldn't have known that in my 30s. I wouldn't have known that in my 20s.

[A]

And you know that now.

[B]

And you know it now. Yeah, but like, it's. That's what I mean about the dance.

[A]

It's so funny you say that like I. Last night. So last night I went to a concert with my friend John Legend and it was like. And it started at 8, which I was already like, oh, no. I like to go to bed at 8:45. And then like, you know, it's going, it's going. And he's bringing all his friends on. Nora Jones is coming on Quest Love's Lauryn Hill shows up at 11. Oh, yeah. It is like fire. But in my mind I'm like, I gotta go to bed. I gotta go to bed. Lauren, you gotta finish up, girl. You know, I mean, I gotta go to sleep.

[B]

Lauren's never going to bed by the way.

[A]

So normally I get anxious and I'm like the person that leaves the concert. And I love music. Cause we go to a lot of concerts, I leave before the big rush. But this time I was like, you know what? Just chill. You're gonna be fine. And if you need a nap tomorrow, it's all good.

[B]

You have hit it dead on the nail. I've been exactly where you are so many times. Where you stop enjoying the moment because you're pre planning your exit. Because you already understand that tomorrow you're gonna have the carrying cost of tonight tomorrow. Like, these are the things that come with both experience of middle age. But then the wisdom, I think comes with what you just said, which is saying, okay, I am observing the narrative that is unfolding in my brain.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I choose to get off the merry go round and I'm just gonna be back in this moment.

[A]

Yep. And I wanna extend on this brilliance. And I think the thing is, is I sometimes would beat myself up and be like, Rashman, why do you have to see? Why did it be so lame? Just enjoy it. But the reality is, is I do need a little bit more sleep, you know what I mean? And I am not able to just bounce out of bed. And in five and a half hours of sleep, I got two little ones, you know, I got a big job, my knee hurts, you know, like the whole thing. So now I just don't make myself feel like a loser about it. Right. I give myself grace to just go. However I was feeling last night though, I took a nap that day. So I was like, you know what, girl? You can listen to Lauryn Hill till she's done, you know what I mean? And enjoy it.

[B]

That moment is going to fill your cup up in a different way. And so I think that, you know, sort of like that's why I call it the, the tango, or you might call it like the negotiation of this stage of life is like, what am I doing? That both fills the cup up in the way that I need, right. That I need to fill my soul right now. And I'm true, I mean truly, I have this conversation with myself daily. What is going to fill the soul of and then what is going to drain the battery? And then it's finding this balance and it's moment to moment and there's no formula, there's no like inherent. I just use this recipe all the time. And, and that level of both awareness and presence is what we're. I feel, I feel I am constantly trying to step into, observe, be mindful of, you know, sometimes, you know, throw caution to the wind and sometimes be like, nope, you know, I'm out of here. It's an interesting time.

[A]

Yeah. Say that one more time. What is going to fill your cup up or.

[B]

Or drain the battery?

[A]

What is going to drain you?

[B]

It is that equanimity that we're searching for and whether I don't, you know, think of it cognitively, like, I'm looking for my equanimity. I'm not, but I'm just like, oh, I'm feeling into this situation. Hmm. I'm getting a lot out of this. Maybe I'll hang in here a little bit more. No, I need to. I need to split. It's time to go.

[A]

You know, Tambi, it's funny. I feel like one of the things I will say at middle age. I know a lot more about what drains me. I'm very attuned to, like, the draining. And I think I've gotten much better about, like, kind of a homebody. So I don't need to be. I don't need to go to that thing. You mean every night? Unless it's like, I really need to show up or it's for a dear friend. I don't need to overload my schedule. Like, I. But the things that fill me up are harder for me to identify and to spend time on.

[B]

I cosign. I hear you. It is an art. It is a practice. It requires intentionality. And I'll be honest, there was a moment where I had to actually make a list, sit down, quiet music, brainstorm. Like, just random as the thoughts came. What things? Just fill my cup up and then print the list and put it in my office.

[A]

Ooh, I'm gonna do that.

[B]

You know, it's like putting the thing on the fridge that says, like, take your vitamins. Like, I needed to put in my field of vision a list that I made when I was in a calm state, when I had the sort of capaciousness to call forth and to think about what would fill me up. I made the list. Print the list for the future Tenby, who's gonna be so busy doing so many things and shit, is just draining her battery, and then, boom, the list is there. So it's like a little cheat sheet.

[A]

I love it. The Tempe cheat sheet. I like it.

[B]

Like, if you're in battery drain, you don't have the time to, like, let me. You know, you're in drain. And so it's like, oh, what can I do right now? It's like, take a five minute walk. Get out of your office. Take a five minute walk. Take a mineral bath. Call a friend.

[A]

Call a friend. I do love to, I love to call a friend and talk on the phone. So I want to talk about you. You've lived so many lives, right? Actor, writer, mother, widow, daughter. And someday now is your new memoir. And it feels like the next version of you. So for those people who may not know you, how do you introduce yourself these days? Like, who is Tempe Lock?

[B]

Well, I think, you know, first of all, that answer would vary based on who I'm talking to. Clearly, you know, I'm going to give a personal answer, not a professional one.

[A]

Please.

[B]

I'm going to do that right, because the professional one, it can be found. But I think personally, if I were meeting someone new, I would say I am fundamentally today someone who is really seeking to live the highest, best, most loving version of myself. And to meet that in the world. I know that feels very esoteric, but you asked me the question and I chose very intentionally to answer it from my heart, not from like, who am I professionally? Which, yes, I am a writer, I'm a TV producer, I podcast. You know, I could say all of that, but actually, I think the times that we're living in call for more intimacy when we meet. People don't actually care so much at this stage of life about what people do professionally in the world. It matters. I'm curious about it, but it's actually not the first thing that I'm drawn to when I meet someone.

[A]

Ooh, I, I, you are just blowing my mind right now because I so identify with everything you just said because I'm trying to find that in my life right now. So you know that moment at 5pm when everyone's hungry, you're exhausted, and the only thing in your fridge is a half a cucumber and a questionable yogurt. That used to be my house every night, but then I found Suvi. Suvi is a smart countertop oven and flexible meal delivery service that basically gives you your evenings back. Here's the magic. In the morning, you toss your sous vide meal into the pans. Seriously, two minutes. And sous vide's built in refrigeration, keeps everything cold all day. You don't even have to be home when it starts cooking. Then you tap the recipe card on the oven and sous vide just knows what to do. Set the time you want, dinner ready, leave. Live your life. Their chef crafted meals show up at your door over 50 options. New ones every week or go rogue and use your own ingredients. The Sous Vide kitchen robot has 15 plus cook modes from Air fry to slow cook. Suvi makes dinner simple and wholesome so you can feed your entire crew without losing your mind. Go to suvi.com midlifecrisis to get 16 free meals when you order. That's s u v I e.com midlifecrisis save time, eat better with Suvie when it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things people truly love. Beautiful, timeless pieces they will wear for years. That is why I'm going with quints. They have something for everyone and everything is premium quality at a price that finally makes sense. Designer level sweaters at everyday prices. Silk tops and skirts for dressing up, perfectly cut denim for daily wear and outerwear that actually keeps you warm. Every piece is made with premium materials from ethical, trusted factories and priced far below other luxury brands. My personal favorite is their Mongolian cashmere sweater. It feels incredible. Soft, structured and it never pills. It's the kind of quality I would expect from a $200 piece, not 50. I've been wearing mine non stop and it's holding up so well through the season and Quint makes gifting easy in every category. Their home and travel pieces round out my list and take the guesswork out of holiday shopping. Find gifts so good you'll want to keep them with quint. Go to quint.com midlife for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada that is. Q-U I N C.com midlife well, hi everybody.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yes. And then I go, oh my God, now I know who I'm talking to. Oh, hey Reshma, meet Tendi. She's also seeking, you know, X, Y and Z. And now we're here. Like now we're actually plugged into each other because the other answer sends me into this sort of like a cognitive space where I'm like, oh, she does this. Oh, she go, oh, where's the coding? When did she start the code and not with you? I'm thinking, yeah, my brain, which is often too overstimulated anyway.

[A]

Yeah. Can I confess something though? Since we're just being all real here. I find myself though, so I will lean into when I introduce myself by starting with Girls who Code because I have this big fear of rejection, right? So I want to be accepted and, and I know nine out of 10 times, you probably would know what Girls who Code is. You might not know what mom's first is. Right. But you know what Girls who Code is. And so if I tell you that thing, then you're probably like, oh, my love girls are called my daughter. Da da da. We're in and we're in.

[B]

And I have legitimacy.

[A]

And I have legitimacy. I deserve to be here. It's such a, in some ways, I got to stop doing this because it's such a cheat. Right? Like, it doesn't allow me to sit in my uncomfortableness or my vulnerability or like my fear of rejection by doing the thing. Does that resonate for you?

[B]

It completely resonates. Because for so many years, let me just say, going back to the professional piece in this, you know, my whole first 20 years professionally was as a journeyman actor. Said differently, an underemployed actor in Hollywood. So if I were to introduce myself in LA circa 2008, 10, whatever, say, oh, I'm an actor. People be like, oh, and where do you wait tables? You know, I never walked into a room expecting to give a professional answer and have mirrored back to me. Oh, instant legitimacy.

[A]

Because you were not famous enough. Yeah, because it's la.

[B]

Like, unless you're a recognizable face and name, people are like, oh, you're an act. Great.

[A]

Like, me too. Okay. I would not survive in LA as a journeyman actor. I would not. But you would.

[B]

You actually would. You actually would. But so I, I, I can say I share that. To say that so much of my life professionally, I didn't have the benefit of walking into a room and saying what I can say now I'm a New York Times bestselling author, best selling author who had a film about their, a television, a global television series about her life made on Netflix, who has won awards. I mean, like, these were never the things I didn't walk in with, like my card of legitimacy at a party to be like, hey, I'm this. And so now when I walk into room, I don't even care to answer that. I'm in midlife before any of this happened.

[A]

So you feel like, I did it, bitch, Like, I'm done. Like I, I can now move on to a different, like a different state of reality with like humanity, you know, I can move beyond.

[B]

Yes. Because I only got to these quote unquote accolades, legitimate quote unquote social titles at a party. That currency of what do you do? I only got here because of a very human experience.

[A]

So I want to talk about that, because I was going to ask you that because you write your first book that turns into a movie based out of the profound grief of losing your husband. Right. So what was it about.

[B]

Like, grief.

[A]

That broke you open in many ways and that breaks people open that you've learned.

[B]

Right. Well, you and I could like, talk for weeks and weeks about the ways in which grief can become a catalyst for a profound sea change in your life just writ large. And more specifically, it broke open my heart in a way that there was no way forward except through. And there was no way forward except to try to be in the world as authentically as I possibly could. So I was a cancer caregiver for 10 years. So for 10 years, I was his caregiver. I was the primary breadwinner. I was a mom to a young child. And I was really just trying to make all of the pieces and circumstances of my lived experience make sense and be present. And when my husband passed, I actually thought I was living the hardest thing, and that was being a cancer caregiver and a moment. But when he passed, it was just so radically different. And the part of what I was trying to do in those early years was to really make sense of a world that I didn't understand anymore.

[A]

Why was it so radically different? Because he was gone. Because. Yeah. Why?

[B]

Just the profound goneness. I mean, he was best friend, lover, father of child, you know, person. I poured my soul into half of my life, literally, at the time. I was 41 when he passed away. More than half of my life had been spent at his side.

[A]

How old were you when you met?

[B]

I was 20.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So my understanding of the world and the life that I was building was predicated on him and his presence and that togetherness that we had.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So without that, I was building something completely new, but with the legacy of that love. And while I'm also just raising a child and trying to keep, like, the lights on.

[A]

I was gonna ask you. I know this might be a strange question, but what was harder, losing him or being a single mom at that point?

[B]

They. For me, they are so fused together in. In the. In the experience. It's hard for me to parse those out because they. They go together. I think the single parenthood was different because I was a solo parent to a grieving child while I was also grieving. So it was more than just being a solo parent. It was being a solo parent with, you know, like, thrown on jagged rocks, you know, at low tide with, you know, the sun bearing down on you. It was like, wait, what? You know, because I had friends who were solo parents, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And their child wasn't deeply grieving, so it was a very particular. To me, the things in my lived experience are so fused, it's hard to sort of parse them out. But I think the rebuilding of my life was incredibly hard. And doing that while also trying to show up as much as I could for my child was really. Was really hard.

[A]

You said that love and loss taught you to build a life inside the wreckage. What's something beautiful you've built that never would have existed without that loss?

[B]

The first answer that comes to mind is the bravery to truly dream the biggest and start over from nothing. I will say I remember, um, I had an audition, like, eight months after Sato had passed. And I think it was like, one of my, like, first back. And I was. I kind of wanted the part. I was really into it. And I thought, like, what is my take on this character? Go in. And I thought to myself, wait, the former me prior to his death would have been like, I gotta get this. I want to try it this way. Oh, my gosh. And just gnawing, you know, to, like, have this part. And then the widowed me who sat bedside to someone as he passed into the other realm was like, everything I need to do this role is in me. I don't have to do anything except show up. And I have nothing to lose because I had lost what at the time and in many ways was everything. You give. As the kids say, zero fucks my favorite term. Yep, you give zero because you've seen. You've seen where it ends. I know how this story ends. And so why not swing for the fences, right, and try everything? And, like, I felt as though I were living not just for the rest of my life and to build a life for our daughter, but I also felt like I was living for the life he didn't get to live, for all the dreams that we had together that were unfulfilled. And I'm like, well, I'm carrying his life force, his love and those dreams with me. And so with that, let's go. And I did not have that prior to loss.

[A]

Right. Does that stay with you?

[B]

Yeah, it does.

[A]

It does. It's not one of those things in life where you're like, oh, I have this awakening and then time.

[B]

Not for me. Not for me.

[A]

It has stayed with you.

[B]

Some days it's louder and some days it's quieter. I was again, anecdotal Story at the bank, someone's on the line, and they're acting a little.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

And I just said to myself, oh, my gosh, hold this whole thing lately, like, we're all, you know, to you quote Ram Dass, we're all just walking each other home.

[A]

Yep. I mean, my. My spiritual coach always says it's like you and you cannot. Suffering and grief is such a gift because you cannot understand other people's suffering until you understand your own. I want to talk about moving forward, though, because I think for some people, and it's a common feeling for a lot of women in midlife, there's like a fear of moving forward because it means you're leaving something behind. Like, what have your own personal experiences taught you about that fear?

[B]

I will say this. I know that fear. I know it so intimately, I almost. When you ask the question, I could feel it in an embodied way. I got a little pit in my stomach because. And I think in some ways, it is the reason why I wrote from scratch, because I understood. As I was approaching the fifth anniversary of his passing, I understood that suddenly time made sense in a new way. I said, oh, this is just gonna keep marching forward. And that life that we had together is going to continue to be further in the rear view mirror in the timeline. And it frightened the hell out of me because I didn't want to get further away from the timeline of the life we shared together. Yeah. And that fear that, like, wanting to hold onto it with everything that I had is what propelled me to endeavor to write it all down. And I had been writing about my life, and I'd been journaling, I'd been taking writing classes, but I never had the ambition or the thought form that, oh, my gosh, this could be a book. But that fear that you talk about, about in order to go forward, am I leaving my beloved behind? For me, it became about, how do I go forward? As they say, you know, for those who have, you know, either read the book or watch the series. You know, that Sicilian, my late husband was Sicilian. So there's a lot of Italian in the book, but there's a saying in Italian, C Ranti, which means to pull yourself forward. That verb, to pull. You are like, literally saying, come on, let's go. We can do this. And to pull myself forward, I said, well, I'm also going to pull him with me because I don't want to let him go. And I think that to anyone listening who is at that moment where they're like, if I try something new If I do something different, if I re partner or move to a different city or change apartments, like, am I leaving my beloved behind? I am here to say you can do that hard thing, you can do that move forward thing, and you can bring your beloved with you, even in.

[A]

Re partnering, because that's something you've done.

[B]

Hell to the yes.

[A]

What do you mean, hell to the yes?

[B]

Yes, you can. Yes, you can. You can.

[A]

You can.

[B]

You can. You really can. And it's not easy. It requires a lot of emotional. Emotionality, a lot of awareness, a lot of being really authentic. But to meet me, I am re partnered, and I didn't know I would ever be repartner. But to meet me is to also meet the life I had before we ever met. And so what that means is I talk about Sato, my late husband, with Robert, my new husband. There are pictures all over the house. We cook his food. We do things that pull him into the timeline that we are all living now because one, he is my daughter's father, and he will never not be my daughter's father. So if I'm re partnering with someone, they are also needing to know all of who he was and what he meant to our lives. So that means partnering with someone who can hold that. Who's up for that game? Who's up for that dance of past and present and commingling with a past that they never saw and never knew and. But they're curious about it. They want to know. They want to make space for the ways in which your grief may bubble up at the grocery store and they have no idea why. And then you can turn to them and be like, I just saw the pasta, and I remember the time when he made that, and I just need a minute. And then they put their hand around you and they go, okay, I got you.

[A]

Is that a rarity?

[B]

I wish it were not. I really do. I wish that we were all versed and taught in how to hold big, big, big loves. I think people have the capacity to do it. I really do. I just. I. Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist in that way. I think we do have the capacity to do it. I think fear gets in the way, that there's a lot of fearing, like, oh, you know, it's common for people who are partnering with people after loss to feel as though, can I ever share the light right. With the memory of someone who was so beloved? And that's a real thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my new show, this Life of Mine. I sit down each week and with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth. From Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian. We talk about the people, places, possessions, music, and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st. Wherever you get your podcast costs.

[A]

I love how you said, hold big loves because I think sometimes people will think, well, I need you to love me more.

[B]

Baby, please. I am here. Okay? Now see, if you come to me with that now, then what are we doing? Because now you're just saying I'm here to like, first of all, I cannot. The hierarchies of love. Wait, what I. My brain breaks so for my heart can't recognize that instantly. What I need to be is to say, like, I'm in a yes and world and so I need to meet you in a yes and world. Like, and some of that is people's own wounds, mostly.

[A]

Always their own wounds.

[B]

Right. It's their own wounds. And I'm not saying this was like, this was very intentional hard work. And I write about it in Someday Now. I mean, it's. It's in the book, that sense of what it took to induct ourselves into a family and a blended family, that was asking. Again, I use the word capaciousness that is not commonly talked about or seen or mirrored in the world. You know, especially in a death averse culture. In a grief averse culture, we are not well versed in understanding that our heart can hold a lot.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, let's be honest. We don't even live in an abundance world. We live in a zero sum world. Right. Where, like, there's no space. There's only space. If someone new walks in the room, there's no space left for me. Right. If she's getting an opportunity, a seat in college, that means I don't get one. So it's. Our entire culture is not full of abundance in any sense of the form, which needs to shift. So I can really see how this is deeply problematic in relationships.

[B]

Oh, very much so. And it became a thing where, you know, it was happening for each of us in our sort of, you know, family, in this blended family in different ways. You know, my husband Robert is asking, how does he hold his presence? Be there for us, but also worry about, like, is he doing the right thing? And is it is.

[A]

It is.

[B]

He's figuring it out. My daughter is like, oh, my gosh, yes, you're a father figure in my life, but you're not my dad. And I miss my dad. And to miss my dad, does that mean I can't actually, like, love you? Fully, embrace you? I'm in the middle asking myself, who needs more in this one moment? Is it me? Is it my daughter? Is it him? It's a very complex landscape, but I think at the end of the day, grace, space, truth. You know, we kind of always in the family say. You can kind of say whatever you need to say as long as you're not doing it from a place of trying to intentionally hurt someone. Truth is your truth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're weaponizing it, then. Okay, now we need to actually, like, slow down and figure out what the hell's going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you can share what you need to share, right?

[A]

Cause I think it's like. It's. Most of us feel like we can't say how we're feeling. Like, I'm definitely in a space right now on a professional thing where I'm like, feel like I'm being silenced. And it's almost like the worst feeling. Right. Where you feel like you can't say your truth. I want to talk about your new book, and it's about so many things. Love, memory, reinvention. But the. One of the biggest themes that really resonated and I think will resonate for so many of our listeners is this idea of re nesting. You take your daughter back to Sicily for one last summer before she leaves for college. And again, Cicely is the home of your. Of your love. Right. And of her father. And it means so much. And like, the sounds and the. You went there all the time. Like it means something to your family. When you start that summer with her, like, I want you to be honest. Did it feel liberating or devastating?

[B]

Liberating.

[A]

What? No.

[B]

Reshma. Reshma. Reshma. I was meeting this moment with such trepidation, fear, worry, anxiety, existential questioning. My child was. My only child was leaving home. The moment awakened all the griefs that we've been talking about prior to this. Oh, baby showed up as, like a tsunami, but in an unexpected way, and in a way I didn't feel entitled to have, because I knew there was the. We were in the middle of what is to be a joyous moment. Your child is leaving home. They're going to college. They've. They fulfilled all the things that we're supposed to Fulfill as parents. And so I was both in the joy of that, in the excitement for her, in the real that she had gotten into the school she wanted to get into, that she was going to.

[A]

Do all the things.

[B]

And yet. And still. Oh.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

I was like, what happens to the family now? We had just blended, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We only been a blended family for, like, a hot Christmas minute. So, like, what happens now? Because now she doesn't live at the home. I don't know if they're really. If she and my. Her stepdad are going to be close. Like, will she want to come? I mean, so many things came up of both my own personal history as a child, as a widowed person, as a mom. And so I get on this plane and go to Sicily with many more questions and anxiety than I have answers. And I think that I was seeking. What I was hoping that the trip might do was to one silence, some of the noise. Because it is a peaceful place. It is an evocative place. The natural landscape sort of lowers my cortisol levels. It's a space where you can, like, take walks and be by the beach. And I thought, okay, well, that's got to be good for all of us. And then I thought maybe if we attempt to, as I call, you know, blend in a deeper way because, you know, and not to give anything away for people who haven't listened to the book. My new husband, Robert, came along on that trip, and he had never been to Sicily. Sicily was like the last frontier in our blended family. He was like, you know, nope, that is like the epicent. That is like your late husband's space. That's his hometown. That's his home island.

[A]

Bridge too far. Not going.

[B]

It's a bridge too far. Like, I can't. I'll be intruding. Like, oh, you know, it won't work. And so there was all of this sort of personal roiling that was going on. But I knew my intuition and in some ways, midlife taught me we just got to go through this. We're not going to, like, put a stone on it and keep passing and just like, keep going and not. And avoid. We're actually going to have to lean in and lean into this discomfort and grief taught me how to do that. It imprinted me with how to do that because I felt as though we will have a greater sense of ourselves as a family. I'll have a greater sense of my. Of myself if I do the hard thing and see what happens on the other side. No guarantees here, but I'm willing to, like, take the risk again, going back to that. You gotta, like, go for it.

[A]

So what happens? Not to give the book away.

[B]

We get there and, you know, it's both beautiful and emotionally charged. But, you know, not to give too much away. What ends up happening is what I thought was something for the family. And it both was. I actually found it was something I really needed.

[A]

Did you know you were gonna do the audiobook before you went, or the like. Or the book?

[B]

So it was happening sort of simultaneously. I knew I had this idea for the audiobook. I felt like it would be in Sicily. And I took this recorder with me as a kind of an experiment to sort of stress test. Is this really a thing? What is happening here? And I just would turn on the recorder when I felt like it. Like in certain moments I was like, I just want to capture the audio experience of this one summer before everything changes.

[A]

It's such a beautiful, beautiful concept and idea. I mean, so incredible.

[B]

It was so like it was unfolding because I thought, like, well, you know, we'll never pass this way again in this. I'll come back, we'll have other trips. But it will never be that one summer between her childhood and her adulthood. It'll never again be that one summer when Robert is first coming to Sicily for the first time to join us. And so I just had this recorder. And, you know, sometimes we'd be chatting. I turn it on and record some conversations. I'd record the birds, the wind, the sea. And I didn't know what I was going to do with it all. And I was journaling. So I'm recording and I'm journaling. Recording and journaling, which is kind of how I create as a storyteller. It's very intuitive.

[A]

And that's always been your writing process?

[B]

Always been my writing process. It's very. I'm feeling my way forward. I wish it would be a lot easier. I envy. I don't really envy, but I like. I respect my friends who can like, outline. They know the beginning, they know the middle, the end.

[A]

They got it. Sorry.

[B]

I love my outline. Girlies, I love you. I am not you. I am literally like, I have a sense, a felt sense of the start.

[A]

But you're kind of writing like a novelist. Right. Whereas. And I think that that's a different. Okay, I want to talk about this term. Renesting. Yes. Right. Because it's not about emptiness, it's about rebuilding. And here's the thing. I think that for a lot of women in midlife they are about to renest, their children are leaving, their identity is shifting. They got all this time that they didn't have before, like that they have to figure out what to do with. And it feels like, I think culturally the idea, like you said, the idea of empty nest is like you lost something. And it's disempowering how so much of the cultural language around midlife is. So talk to me about like the term why it's powerful for you. And then what did you discover about yourself during renesting?

[B]

So, yes, you've really, you know, opened the door to a beautiful conversation. So that particular summer that I was referring to, that is, you know, the. The setting for someday now, I. I was very aware that I could not relate to this idea of the empty nest one, because I don't like anything that defines something by the absence of something. My life did not feel empty. My relationship with my daughter did not feel empty. I knew our home, she would come and go and return. And if anything, it was very. It would be changing, it would be fluid, but it would not be empty. And so I just refused. I just rebuked the term. I was just like, I refuse to accept that my life is suddenly now empty and that the whole domestic life that I have spent the last 18 years building is now going to be reduced to one word, empty. So I'm like, no, not doing it, but what is happening? And I realized that what we're actually doing in this stage is beginning a process of reframing what is our family dynamic? What is the home life. We are beginning to redefine relationships. I am on the cusp of reimagining for myself. What do I want to do in the time that I was previously spending in the carpooling?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. What am I doing now when I don't have to come home and have dinner ready by 6:30?

[A]

Right. When you got all this time.

[B]

Right. And so now. So it became this idea of this reimagining. And for me personally, I think again referring back to the experiences that I had both as a caregiver than as a widowed person. As someone who made a whole new career for myself in my late 40s, I realized there is a power in looking at what is possible, not just what isn't, but what is possible. And to reframe that. And I thought, well, that's what we're doing. We are re nesting. We are reforming our relationship with our family. We're renegotiating our relationships with our children. And we're Reimagining kind of what we're doing and some reclamation work. And let me speak to that very specifically. The reclamation work is returning to aspects and parts of who we were that whether by design or unconsciously got put to the side, put in the margins because we had to. And we were called to and we chose to parent. Now I want to kind of like say what's. Wait, what's over there in the wings of my life? What did it, what got put in the margins? And now let me, you know, pivot my gaze that way, reclaim some of that and bring it into my now. So it's this beautiful also period of. To reclaim parts of ourselves.

[A]

Yeah. So Tempe, how do you do that? Because I think one of the key shifts that happens, I think, or at least we tell ourselves we get older is like, I'm less able to make risks. I'm less able to take risks. In the same way, like I think I'm 33 year old. Reshma. I was broke, I had nothing to lose. I was up for anything. You know what I mean? And now I'm like, I got a mortgage, I got my kids, I got. Right. But I know that girl, she was fired and she needs to make an appearance often. How do I tap in tactically, strategically, tools? How do I tap into that, what you were talking about?

[B]

Well, I think the first thing we can do tactically is actually to remind ourselves, to actually tell ourselves that they are not two separate people. That 30 year old who had all the fire, she's very much present in the scene. She's right there. And now she has the added wisdom and experience that has happened in the ensuing timeline. So one is to like not actually see them as separate. That's one of the first things to do, is to actually go. She's right here with me. She is actually put me on this path and she didn't abandon me along.

[A]

The way or I didn't grow out of her.

[B]

It did not grow out of her. She's grown wiser. So what are the strategic moves I can make that honor that fire, that desire, that curiosity that like I have big dreams that I want to go for and I'm not going to not do that because I owe it and not from a place of like, I'm keeping a ledger. Oh, but like I just owe it spiritually, soulfully to her. It's. It was, it was on her heart to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I owe her like saying, I see you. So let's see what we can co create Today with the information that we have today and the experience that we have today. So starting there and then I say often it is, you know, the wisdom of this stage of life. Whereas when I was in my 30s, I very much thought I had to do everything by myself.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like I got to do it all by myself. I had a, like, it was very like a solo situation. I think when we reach this stage, it's about what can I do inside of community and how can I strategically leverage the relationships and the people that I know and love. And I don't have to do it alone. There are people who are going to want to co create this vision with me and how can I look around the room and see who can do that with me? And that's a strategic way to activate the 33 year old self.

[A]

Oh, I love that. Yeah.

[B]

So I think that to me is like, it's a mindset shift of like saying, she's not gone, she's here now. She doesn't have to do it alone now.

[A]

She got friends, she's got posse, she.

[B]

Got friends, she got a posse. And that then is more empowering. So you're actually adding to the fire to go forward and. But then I'm going to say tactically, the other thing is you have to give her the quiet space to dream.

[A]

Well, listen, this was such an amazing, amazing conversation. I want to ask you one last piece of advice. You have so much good wisdom. I know. We really could. We really could.

[B]

We could.

[A]

We're going to be best friends now. You're my new. You're my new friend. I made this month.

[B]

I co signed. We're here. Okay, all right, great.

[A]

What is one small daily ritual and be totally ordinary that keeps you grounded, that you would recommend.

[B]

Okay, this is the thing. And I literally have started this in the last like six months of my life. I make myself in the evening an herbal tea. And I don't mean like a tea bag that I got from Trader Joe. I mean, I spent a little time researching herbal remedies.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So for me in particular, it's rose petals and hibiscus. The ritual, the simple ritual of mixing those two and steeping them in some hot water, which literally takes two minutes. And then sitting with that cup and kind of saying to myself as I drink it, this day is complete, this day is done. I'm closing it with rose petals because rose is a symbol of the open heart. Hibiscus lowers blood pressure, which, hello, we need it in life. So that combo is very intentional. Rose petals and Hibiscus. And I just sit with that damn cup of tea. And what I'm doing is, I'm saying I did all I could do today. Today is done. And it's been a very helpful in helping with the middle of the night mind chatter. That was happening a lot for me. And I then, if I still do wake up in the middle of the night, I remind myself, today is complete. Whatever is in the mind circling right now, I can pick it up tomorrow.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[B]

I don't have to do it now. And that tea. Just making an herbal tea, by the way, it could be any. It could be, you know, nettle. It can be Tulsi. Tea can be whatever. It could be, you know, just chamomile. It didn't matter.

[A]

It could be a glass of hot water. Like, it's just, you're. You're closing the day out.

[B]

You're closing the day out with something warm. For me, it's soothing and I just sit with it and it's so, so simple. And it really has changed everything. And so I need the simple things. Life is very complex. It's moving at an exponentially rapid rate. A rate that's not sustainable, I think, for our human hearts and minds and so slowing down. With a simple cup of tea, I have literally become one of the, One of the aunties. I am like, with my tea at the end of the night. But I'm telling you, you can do it. It's so good. It's simple.

[A]

I love it. Thank you for this amazing, amazing, amazing conversation. Everybody read a book. All of the books, two of the books and the audio. Listen. They're all extraordinary. And you're so wise beyond your years. So I'm so grateful for this conversation. Thank you, Tempe.

[B]

This has been fantastic. Thank you so much.

[A]

Thank you, temby, for this beautiful conversation. If it moved you, send it to someone you love and then go check out Temby new memoir, Someday Now. And before you go, thank you for listening to My so Called Midlife. If you haven't yet, now's a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll get bonus content you can't hear anywhere else. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts. Or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That's lemonadapremium.com my so called midlife is brought to you by Mom's First. Come see what we're all about at Momsverse US. I'm your host and Executive Producer Reshma Sajani, our senior producer is Katie Ecstak Cordova, our producer is Beth Breaux and our sound engineer and editor is Mary Kelly of Sweater Weather. Our theme music was composed by Ivan Kureyev and performed by Ivan with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltock. Scheduling support from Cindy Cook. Sales and distribution is by Leaving Media. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review and let us know what you're doing in midlife. Follow MySocalled Midlife wherever you get your podcasts or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership and be sure to follow me reshmasajani and moms first on Instagram, LinkedIn and substack. Thanks and we'll be back next week.

[B]

Story Pirates is the number one podcast for kids and families in the world and the newest addition to the Lemonada Media Network. We take stories written by real kids and turn them into sketch comedy and songs featuring professional actors, famous guests and original music. So get ready to light up your kids imaginations with a show that you'll will also enjoy. The Story Pirates Podcast new season coming November 6th.