My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Episode: Rebuilding Our Village with Esther Perel
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Reshma Saujani (Lemonada Media)
Guest: Esther Perel
Episode Overview
In this deeply insightful episode, Reshma Saujani is joined by world-renowned psychotherapist and relationship expert Esther Perel to explore the themes of midlife loneliness, the myth of individualism, social atrophy, and the urgent need to rebuild our "village." Together, they delve into the changing landscapes of relationships—romantic, platonic, familial—and discuss how women in midlife can cultivate confidence, connection, and community. Filled with wisdom, practical prompts, and candid moments, this conversation is a guide for anyone navigating the complex terrain of midlife and craving a renewed sense of belonging.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Midlife Mindset: Confidence, Nostalgia, and Urgency
- Esther’s Current View: Esther reflects on how her midlife has been marked by a surge in professional success and personal confidence, contrasting her current self-assurance with insecurities of her youth.
- “If I had the confidence of today, with the looks of then…” [04:00]
- Confidence Reframed: Perel defines confidence as “the ability to see yourself as a flawed individual and still hold yourself in high regard,” quoting colleague Terry Real.
- “Not every mistake is the end of my life… Confidence really is your ability to make mistakes, to see yourself as flawed... and continue to hold yourself in high regard.” [05:26]
- Midlife as a Crossroads: Both host and guest discuss the "now or never" feeling of midlife; a period of reflection, urgency, and choice about what to keep and what to let go in life and relationships.
- “What are aspects of your relational story you want to harness...and what do you want to let go?” [07:12]
2. Relationship Dynamics: Who Can Change the Pattern?
- Responsibility in Relationships: Esther explains her well-known principle: “It takes two people to create a dynamic, but one to break it.”
- “A pattern is often interdependent parts of hostile dependence... if you make one change, sooner or later the other person cannot continue the same.” [10:08]
- Reshma shares personal experience as the partner “most able to really change.”
- Not About Blame: Perel emphasizes this is not about unfairly burdening one partner; it's about recognizing flexibility and agency, not responsibility for another’s failings.
3. The New Loneliness—and the Atrophying Village
- Modern Loneliness: They discuss how loneliness is rampant in midlife, especially among women—but it’s even more prevalent (statistically) in men.
- “One in ten women have no close friends at all. In our 40s and 50s, our social circles shrink. One in four men.” [15:40]
- Cultural Pull: Individualism vs. Interdependence:
- Esther distinguishes between being raised for autonomy (“You have your own legs to stand on”) and interdependence (“Your problem is my problem”), and how these cultural paradigms shape one’s willingness to ask for help or share burdens.
- “If you ask for help, it means you’re not performing well on your own. So what’s wrong with you?” [23:27]
- Parenting Becomes Performance: Parenthood (especially motherhood) has shifted from a noun to a verb, with greater judgment and performance metrics—contributing to isolation and burnout.
4. Motherhood, Performance, and Permission to Ask for Help
- Motherhood as Verb:
- “Motherhood used to be a noun, now it’s a verb… It’s entered the capitalist model; everything is measured and judged on performance.” [23:02]
- Why Women Are Exhausted:
- Over-individualized parenting and lack of collective support make mothering isolating and exhausting.
- “Exhaustion comes from separateness. Exhaustion comes from models where people have to do it all.” [27:28]
- Personal Anecdote – Breastfeeding:
- Esther once advised Reshma to stop breastfeeding when it no longer served her, highlighting the liberation that comes from resisting societal pressure.
- “At eight, nine months you may still be feeding him, but you’re not nurturing him.” [22:23]
5. The Costs of Shrinking Friendships and Social Atrophy
- Friendships in Flux:
- Midlife often triggers the ending or drifting apart of friendships—yet new and evolving relationships are crucial as people live longer.
- “All relationships are living organisms. They continuously have to straddle tradition and change… if you don’t change, you fossilize and die.” [34:40]
- Rituals and Intentional Gatherings:
- Esther and Reshma share rituals to honor foundational friendships and intentionally bridge connections between different circles.
- Esther describes Priya Parker’s ritual at her own birthday: friends from different life periods stepping forward and sharing one-sentence reflections—a way to honor, connect, and integrate one’s “village.” [36:19]
6. Building and Re-Establishing Intimacy
- Prompting Deeper Conversations:
- Esther recommends conversational prompts from her card deck to revive connection and intimacy in friendships and relationships, e.g.,
- “A text message I fantasize receiving/sending”
- “A risk I took that changed my life”
- “I owe you a thank you/apology for...”
- “A good question invites a story, not an answer. A story is a bridge for connection.” [38:13]
- Esther recommends conversational prompts from her card deck to revive connection and intimacy in friendships and relationships, e.g.,
- Reaffirming Intimacy:
- Re-establishing intimacy can be periodically necessary, especially in longstanding relationships (friends, siblings, partners).
7. Family, Siblings, and End-of-Life Fractures
- Sibling Estrangement:
- “20% of sibling relationships end after the death of a parent.” [40:13]
- Esther explains this rupture often comes from inequities around care, inheritance, and unresolved childhood dynamics.
- Advocates for “Five Conversations for End of Life” (Frank Ostaseski), covering material goods, ethical wills, medical wishes, traditions, and more—before crisis hits.
- “Why do families fracture? Because one child feels the burden... All these resentments begin to come up.” [43:10]
8. Repair and Reconnection: The Process of Acknowledgement
- Repairing Relationships:
- First step is true acknowledgement, not defensiveness:
- Acknowledge the other’s reality
- Own what you haven’t done
- State what you could do differently
- Invite the other’s shift
- “People want acknowledgement of their perspective… even if yours is different; even if you think you do plenty too.” [43:50]
- First step is true acknowledgement, not defensiveness:
9. Courage to Have Hard Conversations
- Facing Difficult Dialogues:
- Reshma asks how to find the courage for these talks—especially around death, care, or long-held grievances.
- Esther advises starting with rituals, seeking mediation if needed, and using humor or storytelling to break tension.
- “I cringed. But I knew it’s an important conversation to have. Once you’ve crossed that, it’s a whole other story.” [49:56]
10. Redefining the New Village: Intergenerational, Intentional, and “Entre Nous”
- Rebuilding Community:
- Esther’s Substack Entre Nous is envisioned as a modern village—a hub to exchange wisdom, share resources, and foster connection.
- “We need to recreate a village, but it’s not the old village. We want something that is more apart and together at the same time.” [52:27]
- Third Spaces:
- Book clubs, film groups, and shared activities—online or in person—become new communal gathering points.
- Emphasize connection over performative independence.
- “For so many years, we taught people not to talk to strangers. Now… we're urging them to talk to strangers because nobody talks to anybody.” [54:19]
11. Intergenerational Friendships and Communal Living
- The Power of Multigenerational Circles:
- Both share the richness (and practical benefits) of befriending people across age groups.
- “My life has completely changed once it became intergenerational.” [57:49]
- Practical Community:
- Stories of communal travel and daily life illustrate the mutual support and decreased isolation such models can bring.
- “The notion in America that you first ask your friends, and if you don’t have anybody, then you go for the paid solution… that is the twisted thing here… asking for help means you're resourceful, not weak.” [60:22]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Midlife Confidence
- Esther Perel: “Self-confidence is the ability to see yourself as a flawed individual and still hold yourself in high regard.” [05:09]
- On Breaking Relationship Patterns
- Esther Perel: “Two people make a pattern, one person can break it… Not because you’re more responsible, but because you have the flexibility to do it.” [10:08]
- On Loneliness
- Reshma Sajani: “Half of us adults say that they feel lonely most of the time. One in ten women have no close friends at all. In our 40s and 50s, our social circles shrink.” [15:40]
- On Asking for Help
- Esther Perel: “Asking for help means you’re resourceful, not that you’re weak and you can’t do it.” [60:22]
- On Friendship
- Esther Perel: “A good prompt, a good question, invites a story, not an answer. A story is a bridge for connection.” [38:13]
- On Repair:
- Esther Perel: “What people want first and foremost is acknowledgement of their perspective on reality. Even if yours is different, even if you think you do plenty too.” [43:50]
- On the Practice of Belonging
- “Belonging isn’t something we find, it’s something we practice.” (Paraphrased from Reshma’s episode intro summary of Esther’s wisdom) [02:16]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [04:00] – Esther’s midlife mindset and reframing confidence
- [05:26] – Flawed individual, confidence, and the wisdom of imperfection
- [10:08] – “One person can break the pattern” in relationships
- [15:40] – Loneliness statistics and the disappearing village
- [23:02] – Motherhood becomes a verb; capitalist performance culture
- [27:28] – Exhaustion from separateness; structure of families and support
- [34:40] – The fragility and evolution of friendships in midlife
- [36:19] – Priya Parker’s birthday ritual and intentional gatherings
- [38:13] – Esther’s favorite connecting prompts
- [43:10] – Sibling estrangement after parental death
- [49:56] – Courage to have hard conversations about life and death
- [52:27] – The new “village”—online and off; Entre Nous substack
- [57:49] – Intergenerational friendships and communal living
- [60:22] – Resourcefulness in asking for help; breaking the “paid solution” habit
Actionable Takeaways
- Reflect on your own relationship patterns; ask, “What can I do to make things different?”
- Prioritize (and ritualize) friendship: intentionally reconnect or prompt new, deeper conversations.
- Don’t be afraid to initiate hard conversations with family—especially before pivotal transitions.
- Reimagine community beyond the nuclear family; seek out intergenerational and collective living models.
- View asking for help as a sign of strength and community-building, not weakness.
Final Thoughts
This episode embodies the richness of intergenerational, nuanced storytelling and practical advice that both Esther Perel and Reshma Saujani are known for. With honesty, humor, and actionable wisdom, they challenge cultural myths around independence and offer a roadmap for anyone eager to feel less isolated—and more alive—in midlife and beyond.