Podcast Summary

Revisit: How to Stop Giving a Fuck with Bozoma Saint John

Podcast: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Host: Reshma Saujani (Lemonada Media)
Guest: Bozoma Saint John
Air Date: December 31, 2025

Main Theme

This episode explores personal reinvention, finding one’s power in midlife, and learning to live authentically by “plucking” rather than rushing through life. Host Reshma Saujani is joined by powerhouse executive and author Bozoma “Bose” Saint John, who shares candid lessons from grief, career pivots, and bold decisions such as leaving corporate America, founding her own haircare brand, and joining the cast of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. The episode is a frank, empowering conversation on letting go of societal expectations and living urgently, on your own terms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Midlife

• Time Anxiety:

  • Reshma admits to feeling panicked by the term “midlife,” describing it as a ticking clock running backwards (01:42).
  • She notes: “It's almost like this time clock pops up that's moving backwards and I get this panic of like I’m running out of time.” (01:46)

• Midlife Dichotomies:

  • Some people relish getting older, while others yearn for their 20s. Bose shares that each decade brought something meaningful and she feels "totally in my power" approaching 50 (04:44).
  • “Every decade has felt like its own sort of moment.” — Bozoma (04:44)

2. Stepping into Power & Finding Control

• Shift from Ambition to Control:

  • Bozoma says she once equated power with “racing faster than everybody,” but now finds power in balance and control (05:40–07:44).
  • She uses a fitness analogy: rushing through reps gets them done, but with “wobble”; slowing down with control is better and more rewarding (06:37–07:44).

• Living with Presence:

  • Reshma struggles with being present (“I’m just trying to rush through the next thing...and then I'm never present.”) (07:44)
  • Bose connects increased presence and intentionality to aging and wisdom.

3. Living in the Moment & Rejecting Five-Year Plans

• Immigrant Upbringing and Independence:

  • Both discuss navigating family expectations, especially as children of immigrants.
  • Bozoma recalls telling her Ghanaian father she would move in with her white boyfriend, defying family norms with conviction (08:27–09:04).

• On “Hacks” and Planning:

  • Bozoma rejects strict five-year plans: “What if God has something different for you?” (09:04–10:43)
  • “The dreams that I dreamt in my twenties, I am far surpassing them right now in my own life. I am in awe of where I am.” (10:26)

4. Reinterpreting “Carpe Diem” and The Urgent Life

• Pluck the Day vs. Seize the Day:

  • Bozoma explains the true Latin meaning: “carpe diem” should translate as “pluck the day”—a more intentional, careful taking, rather than snatching everything impulsively (11:01–12:16).

    “Carpe diem actually means pluck the day. It’s a more intentional taking... Pluck the day. Trusting as little as possible in the next one.” —Bozoma (11:01)

• Living Urgently, Not Fast:

  • Her memoir, The Urgent Life, stems from personal tragedy and loss, and a resolve not to take life for granted (12:21–14:34).

    “I want people to look at my life and say, God damn it, she lived...she did everything in her moment. And that, for me, will feel fulfilling. That is why I choose to live an urgent life, not a fast life.” —Bozoma (13:18)

5. A Candid Relationship with Grief and God

• Bozoma describes talking honestly and even angrily with God during tragic moments, including her husband’s funeral (14:36–16:38)

  “I have honest conversations with God...I was sitting in that front pew at Peter’s funeral and having an argument with God while sitting there...” —Bozoma (15:07)

• Despite grief feeling unfair, her reaction is to focus on living as intentionally and joyfully as possible.

6. Returning to Love After Loss

• When her estranged husband Peter was diagnosed with terminal cancer, Bozoma agreed to reunite with him not just for herself, but to give him peace at the end of his life (16:38–18:31).

  “What I saw in him was that...in order for him to go peacefully, he needed to have tied up all of the loose ends, the things he regretted. And I don’t think I would ever forgive myself if I denied him that. And I loved him enough to give him that.” —Bozoma (18:17)

7. Reinvention After Corporate America

• Leaving Netflix & the C-Suite:

  • Bose boldly left her career as a high-powered executive, embracing the unknown instead of repeating the corporate grind (21:49–22:14).

• On Giving Up and Gaining Freedom:

  • Early on at Pepsi, she realized the system wouldn’t promote her fairly, so she “gave up” trying to fit in. Instead, she came to work dressed in her true style and attitude—ironically, that’s when she started to thrive (22:30–24:12).

    “I’m not fitting into the mold. I’m never going to become the CMO of the company. So you know what? Screw it...And when I’m sitting in the meeting, I’m going to say whatever the hell I want to say, because none of y’all are going to promote me anyway. Then all of a sudden, people start paying attention to me...” —Bozoma (23:42)

• Midlife Call to Action:

  • “I’m the one who’s standing on the other side of the large crevice...who’s telling you, sis — jump.” (25:23–25:30)

8. Founding Her Haircare Brand, Eve

• Inspired by the lack of products for Black women and frustration after a career of not being accepted as she was, Bozoma launched a haircare line named Eve, honoring both her late daughter and "the Eve of all of us" (26:02–27:04).

• She traveled to China to confront manufacturers about product standards, discovering that Black women were never considered in design or production (31:40–33:11).

  “When I asked things like...‘Why is it that the texture that you’re selling doesn’t match African American or African hair?’...‘Oh, nobody asked us to.’” —Bozoma (32:18–33:11)

9. Breaking the Mold on Reality TV (Real Housewives of Beverly Hills)

• Bozoma joined the Real Housewives with full self-possession, refusing to conform (34:33–36:18).

  “There have been way too much feedback of, like, ‘Oh, Bose, you can’t do that, you can’t do this...’ And I’m like, well, why can’t I?...I could do whatever the hell I wanna do. Who’s gonna stop me?” —Bozoma (35:17)

• She’s committed to elevating the narrative and representing a different kind of drama—from lived experience, not TV tantrums:

  “You think building a company is just a cakewalk. It’s not. There’s lots of conflict in there. And...I don’t have to resort to name-calling and pointing fingers ... to be interesting on television.” (36:28–38:02) “Same person, same outfits. I’m showing up in the same way. And my hope is that by doing that, I am still representing...for the corporate girlies who are doing it their own way.” (38:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Highlight | |-----------|--------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:40 | Bozoma St. John | “I am more in control of who I am.” | | 07:08 | Bozoma St. John | “Control...you might have to slow down a little bit, but the rep is gonna be better.” | | 11:01 | Bozoma St. John | “Carpe diem actually means pluck the day. It’s a more intentional taking.” | | 13:18 | Bozoma St. John | “I want people to look at my life and say, God damn it, she lived.” | | 14:36 | Reshma Saujani | “You know, I always say God never gives you what you can’t handle.” | | 15:07 | Bozoma St. John | “I was sitting in that front pew at Peter’s funeral and having an argument with God...”| | 23:42 | Bozoma St. John | “I’m not fitting into the mold...And when I’m sitting in the meeting, I’m going to say whatever the hell I want to say, because none of y’all are going to promote me anyway.” | | 25:30 | Reshma Saujani | “Jump.” | | 32:18 | Bozoma St. John | “Why is it that the texture...doesn’t match African American or African hair? ... ‘Oh, nobody asked us to.’” | | 35:17 | Bozoma St. John | “I could do whatever the hell I wanna do. Who’s gonna stop me?” | | 38:10 | Bozoma St. John | “Same person, same outfits...if I can do that, if I can be that, and it will be okay and likable, then...I think we can change actually the way that this industry sees us”|

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 01:42 – Reshma introduces midlife anxiety and Bozoma
• 04:44 – Bozoma on loving every decade and stepping into power
• 07:08 – Bozoma’s workout/balance analogy and the shift from speed to control
• 09:04–10:43 – On family expectation, risk, and refusing five-year plans
• 11:01 – Carpe diem / “pluck the day” discussion
• 12:21 – How grief shaped Bose’s sense of urgency
• 14:36 – Candid talk about loss, God, and unfairness
• 16:38–18:31 – Reconciling with Peter for his peace
• 21:49 – Why Bozoma left corporate America; confidence after “giving up”
• 23:42–24:12 – Giving up the corporate mold and finding freedom
• 25:30 – The “jump” moment, calling other women to leap
• 26:02 – Founding Eve, her haircare company
• 32:18–33:11 – Shocking lack of inclusion in the hair industry
• 34:33 – Joining Real Housewives, unapologetically
• 36:28–38:10 – Redefining reality TV and representation

Final Reflections

The episode closes on a hopeful, motivating note: Bose’s journey encourages listeners—especially women navigating midlife—to shed old expectations, embrace urgency (intentionally, not frantically), and unapologetically build the lives and careers they want. Her story models how resilience, presence, and a little bit of “fuck it” can lead to fulfillment and leadership.

Recommended Follow Ups:

• The Urgent Life by Bozoma Saint John
• Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, featuring Bose