MTGM EXTRA! "Red flags everywhere... Like a parade."

Summary

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My Therapist Ghosted Me: MTGM EXTRA! "Red flags everywhere... Like a parade."

Hosts: Vogue Williams & Joanne McNally
Date: January 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

This extra episode sees Vogue and Joanne dissect the uproar around Stephen Bartlett’s recent podcast episode with Chris Williamson—specifically, their controversial discussion on male loneliness, declining birth rates, and whether society should intervene in romantic and reproductive trends. As always, the duo offers their take with a heady mix of razor-sharp wit, blunt honesty, and vibrant storytelling, moving on to listeners’ stories of major dating red flags and navigating tricky social encounters—from casual racism to “closeted crushes” at the gym.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Stephen Bartlett Controversy: Male Loneliness, Birth Rates, and Dating Apps

• Background (00:02 – 03:03):

  • Vogue introduces Stephen Bartlett’s massive UK podcast, noting they’d have addressed this sooner if not for recent Brooklyn Beckham news.
  • Joanne expresses a hope they weren’t “too hard on him” in their reactions.
  • Both women acknowledge the sadness of the situation while questioning the backlash against families and the tendency for “dirty games” akin to “what Harry did.”

• Bartlett’s Conversations (03:04 – 04:26):

  • Vogue references Bartlett’s prior episodes with Esther Perel, noting how she called him out for thinking men “have it so hard” with online dating.
  • Vogue is bemused at Bartlett and Williamson—both child-free men—discussing declining birth rates and blaming women for prioritizing careers over children.
  • Joanne ties this to the “male loneliness epidemic” and the idea of “incels” or involuntary celibates.
  • The hosts are critical of the “manosphere” narrative, in which men frame women as the barrier to propagating their “legacy.”

• Problematic Arguments (04:26 – 05:59):

  • Joanne: “[Bartlett] asked the question, should society intervene? Which of course, any woman who hears this is like, he sounds like he's trying to organize some mass grape in the town where women are going to be held down and impregnated...” (04:26)
  • Both call out Chris Williamson for “regurgitating” borrowed opinions, painting the conversation as lacking substance and dangerously one-sided.

• Dating App Culture & Real-Life Connection (07:55 – 08:48):

  • Joanne critiques the physical superficiality of dating apps (“very visible”), emphasizing real-life chemistry: “If you lined up any of my ex boyfriends, I wouldn't match with any of them on a date now... But I met them in person, I was absolutely obsessed.” (07:55)
  • Vogue agrees: she never would have swiped right on her husband “Sven,” but real-world connection worked.

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2. Red Flags & Dating Etiquette for Men

• Joanne’s Rapid-Fire Advice (08:26 – 09:13):
  • “Exfoliate. It's not hard. Exfoliate. Fix your scalp issues. Do not post dating profile photos in a gaming seat... Huge flag... Don't eat your dinner off a clothes horse. Don't display every bottle of Jack Daniels like it's some achievement... Stop watching anime porn.”
  • Vogue’s additions: “Treat women with respect. Don't just expect women to want to jump at you. Understand what the person you're trying to date enjoys... Be respectful, be polite.” (09:18)

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3. Deeper Problems with the Manosphere Narrative

• Notable Moment (09:33 – 10:12):

  • Joanne: “Where was the argument for men bringing something else to the table? Instead of the idea of being like handcuff a woman to a radiator and stick a baby in her against her will? ...[T]hat's not what he was suggesting, but it certainly sounded like.”
  • Vogue on the dangers of influential platforms: “...just be more careful because you've pissed off every single female that's listened to your podcast.” (09:49)

• Echo Chamber & Exclusion of Women (10:12 – 10:41):

  • Joanne, referencing Shabazz’s viral video: “The danger is... really toxic conversations which women are not involved in. And he’s... presenting these really right wing ideas... in front of a ring light with a really Shabazz voice.”
  • Vogue agrees, highlighting that these “thoughtful” but actually exclusionary conversations normalize radical, anti-women rhetoric.

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4. Listener Stories: Ghosting & Cautionary Tales

• A Parade of Red Flags (11:13 – 13:36):

  • Listener recounts meeting a transformed, attractive man from her youth, only for the date to descend into horror: racist mockery at a Chinese takeaway (in front of an Asian woman), erratic behavior, and name-calling after she rejects his advances.
  • She kicks him out of her car—he absconds with the Chinese food but (happy ending) she now has a boyfriend and a new favorite takeaway.
  • Joanne: “What a douchebag. Sometimes I wonder about lads like that. They think they're being funny. Like, talk about missing the mark.” (13:36)

• Addressing Racist “Jokes” & Language (13:48 – 15:34):

  • Vogue and Joanne share experiences confronting men who think homophobic and racial slurs are colloquially acceptable.
  • Joanne on casual racism: “That felt to me like it was a racist hate crime.” (15:34)
  • Vogue: “It just kind of smacks you in the face when you hear something like that.” (15:18)

• Accent Mimicry & Cultural Sensitivity (15:34 – 17:09):

  • Joanne describes her discomfort with exaggerated Irish accents from English acquaintances.
  • Vogue grapples with when accent mimicry is harmless admiration or crosses into offensive territory.

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5. Romance in the Gym: Closeted Crushes & Navigating Signals

• Listener Dilemma (17:14 – 19:52):
  • A 35-year-old gay man struggles to interpret “charged” moments with a gym acquaintance who “seems straight” but gives signs of interest—intense eye contact and “non placid penis.”
  • The guy is hot and cold; the listener wonders whether to follow him on Instagram.
  • Joanne: “As my mother says, if he wants you, he knows where you are.”
  • Vogue and Joanne agree: not to force or risk embarrassment, especially when frequenting the same gym. There’s a recognition of the “messy, crazy” world of men who are closeted or “only ride straight lads.”

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6. Finding Balance: Resolutions & Self-Reflection

• Joanne’s Mission for 2026 (20:01 – 20:43):

  • Vows to “leave the house more”; aware the touring lifestyle may hinder that after one last day of “full recline and a full relax.”
  • Humorous struggle to “reinvent myself and start my new life.”

• Closing Banter (21:01 – 21:36):

  • The hosts poke fun at the idea anyone is leaving their house excessively: “Not many people leave the house that much when you don't have to.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Bartlett Episode Backlash:

  • “He sounds like he's trying to organize some mass grape in the town where women are going to be held down and impregnated or he's going to roofie the whole country.”
    — Joanne McNally (04:26)
  • “Buy a plaque. Buy a bench in a park... Women aren't resources either.”
    — Joanne McNally & Vogue Williams (06:40, 06:53)

• Relationship Advice with a Twist:

  • “If you lined up any of my ex boyfriends, I wouldn't match with any of them on a date now... but I met them in person, I was absolutely obsessed with them.”
    — Joanne McNally (07:55)

• On Red Flags in Online Dating:

  • “Do not post dating profile photos in a gaming seat... Don't eat your dinner off a clothes horse... Stop watching anime porn.”
    — Joanne McNally (08:48)

• On the Insidiousness of Manosphere Conversations:

  • “They're really toxic conversations which women are not involved in... it's like, dude, you sound like you want to roofie the world and just shag us against our will.”
    — Joanne McNally (10:41)

• Hilarious Yet Sobering Listener Story:

  • “He greets the server with ‘hero’ in a mocking Chinese accent. I nearly left my body from embarrassment. Important detail. I am Asian.”
    — Listener email (12:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02 – 03:03: Setting the scene—Stephen Bartlett & podcast drama
• 03:04 – 05:59: Male loneliness, birth rates, blaming women
• 07:55 – 08:48: Dating advice: apps vs. real-world
• 08:48 – 09:18: Red flags for men on dating apps (hygiene, gaming chairs, etc.)
• 13:36 – 15:34: Racist and homophobic “jokes”—real-life encounters
• 17:14 – 19:52: Gym crushes, closeted men, and reading signals
• 20:01 – 21:36: Self-improvement resolutions and playful farewell

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Takeaways

• The hosts shine a light on the perils of high-profile men speculating about dating and social trends without female perspective—especially when the narrative tips into entitlement and anti-women sentiment.
• Real-world experiences, empathy, and humor trump self-pity and blame in dating.
• Red flags aren’t just bad haircuts and gaming chairs—racial insensitivity, homophobia, and entitlement end relationships before they start.
• Sometimes, the best therapy is a laugh, some solidarity, and knowing which takeaways to avoid—both literal and metaphorical.

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Transcript

[Vogue Williams]

This is a Global Player original podcast. Hello, and welcome to. My therapist ghosted me with me, Vogue Williams and Joanne McNally. Okay. Stephen Bartlett, UK's biggest podcast. So he has the biggest podcast and everybody has gone kind of wild. And we probably would have talked about this on the main. Had Brooklyn Beckham not come out with the news that he came out taking up our time.

[Joanne McNally]

Yeah.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah. So it just felt more important to cover Brooklyn, but we also feel it's important to cover this because also, I.

[Joanne McNally]

Do hope that we were met when I left the pod yesterday, and it was like I'd been. Something had kind of passed through me. It was like I'd done ayahuasca. I was so high on the adrenaline of the podcast, but I was like, I want. I hope we weren't too hard on him.

[Vogue Williams]

I think that everybody has an opinion on the. On the thing. At the end of the day, it's a really sad situation, and you'd hope that they will find a way to figure it out. The only thing that, like, I just feel. I just think it's a step too far coming out again against your family like that. It just feels. It's like a dirty game. It's like what Harry did. It's. It's Grim Harry. Prince Harry. Is he still Prince? Oh, yeah, no, that's Andrew. Okay. Yes, he is.

[Joanne McNally]

He's just kind of Rando Harry now, isn't he? Yeah, Rando Harry. But, yeah, I just want to add that in, I hope, because we were very worked up and I hope we weren't too harsh on him.

[Vogue Williams]

No. So, okay, so Stephen Bartlett, he does loads of different topics. I actually saw and I listened to an episode of him and Esther Perel because I do really like her. You actually put me onto her, and I really, really like her stuff. And he was talking to her about dating apps, and she was kind of calling him out, and he was like, talking about how it's so hard for men. And, like, there's this man who spent like two years, maybe it was five years on a dating app trying to find a girl. And this other man who. Who was the most swiped, he did the most swipes. So he swiped, like over 2,000 people. He had conversations without over with a thousand, and then he only ended up having a date with one that didn't work out. And he was like, like, how are people supposed to meet each other? And she was literally like, dude, I. They're meant to go out and meet each other. She was like, how long did he spend messaging people in his house when he could have been out meeting actual real people. Anyway, he did a podcast with a YouTuber called Chris Williamson, and they were talking about the declining birth weights. First of all, two men that have no children discussing declining birth weights is. Is an unusual topic for them to touch on.

[Joanne McNally]

I think they were coming at it from a space of, you know, this male loneliness epidemic. And there's a lot of men who are, as we. We call incels, involuntary celibates who can't find a woman to ride them. There's a new trend. We're decentering men. Women are financially secure. Marriage and kids isn't what it was. It's all kind of falling apart. And women are actually quite good at being on their own. We kind of have our community. We have good friends. And they're talking about, are these men entitled to have sex and keep their legacy and keep their genes going? Because all these men are going to die out.

[Joe]

No, keep.

[Vogue Williams]

To keep their. Yeah, to keep their gene pool going. Listen, obviously there is a big problem with male loneliness, but. And we're not taking away from that, but it was the way that they said it that women basically. Basically painting women as the problem and men have to pass on their genes and how women are deciding to choose education, working in their careers instead of going to have children, which was just. It kind of started from this list of a girl called Abigail Porter. And they were reading her list, and it was her hundred reasons plus not to have kids. Now, I found a lot of it funny. It was like morning sickness. This girl once threw up so much that she burst all the blood vessels in her eyes. You can't choose how many babies you have. Imagine you decide to have kids, and then, boom, you have triplets. So it was kind of stuff like that. And they were kind of insulting her list, being like, this is basically the problem. Like, this is making women not want to have children. But at the end of the day, why, if certain men can't meet women and they're sitting at home on their computer like that man who was sitting at home just looking for dates online instead of actually going out into the real world. It's not like handmade maid's tail where women then have to be impregnated to make sure that we keep like. Do you not remember when I was having Otto and we were laughing at the fact that you were like, this is bad for the environment. Because only four years ago, everyone was like, it's so bad for the environment, all these children. People are having too many Children. And it was kind of that. And now it's turned to this and the two of them are discussing it and everybody has rightfully gone insane.

[Joanne McNally]

I think the big problem with the conversation was Stephen Bartlett ask the question, should society intervene? Which of course, any women, any woman who hears this is like, he sounds like he's trying to organize some mass grape in the town where women are going to be held down and impregnated or he's going to roofie the whole country. I don't know what, I don't know what. I don't know what he was saying. Jordan Peterson has had these conversations before about should society intervene. And I will say this Stephen Bartlett and that other lad, Chris Williamson, when I say all these lads do, they're all part of this, like, manosphere, like, it's all about men's mental health. Grant. Men's mental health, obviously that must be important. These lot, especially that guy Chris Williamson. He's always bothered me. There's nothing behind the eyes and you can just.

[Vogue Williams]

He literally has just found these opinions somewhere. Now he's spouting them out like they're his own.

[Joanne McNally]

I'm so glad you agree me, because I feel the same. He's so clearly regurgitating. He's heard other people say, because he thinks it makes him sound smart. But anyway, obviously the Internet blew up. Do you know what this is? This is what bothers me about this thing. There's no conversation. They're all about, could men be kinder, more charming, buy a suit, do bits like that instead of women pregnant. Which I know isn't what he means.

[Vogue Williams]

Some of the points that they were talking about and they were agreeing with each other. Men show up on dating apps and are getting nothing. Well, they obviously. Just because they show up doesn't mean everybody wants them. And then women should practice being receptive to men. Pardon? Like. Yeah.

[Joanne McNally]

Do you know what? I think that. Well, those lads who aren't getting any luck, they need to come on our journey, Joe. And be an 8.6 by May. But I also feel like just came.

[Vogue Williams]

Onto this podcast, probably thinking my hair looks nice today and Joanna fragged him.

[Joanne McNally]

Right, Joe, I don't insult my personal 8.6, but we'll get you somewhere.

[Joe]

We've gotta, we've gotta make do.

[Joanne McNally]

When Vogue posted the photo of you yesterday, several people messaged me thinking they thought they thought you were Brooklyn Beckham. So there you go, Joseph.

[Vogue Williams]

I did get that a little bit. And he is good looking now, Brooklyn Beckham. We can't Take that away from him.

[Joe]

I do think it's because my hair needs a cut at the moment and I hadn't washed it in several days and that's no comment on Brooklyn. I just do need a haircut.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanne McNally]

But back to the lads. You're not entitled to sex and kids. Like, if you're that worried about your legacy, buy a plaque. Buy a bench in a park. Do you know what I mean?

[Vogue Williams]

Women aren't resources either.

[Joanne McNally]

Joe. Love that one. Buy a wank, sleep, you know, do whatever. Like I like. No, and listen, I do think the declining, it's all anyone's talking about at the moment and it will become an issue eventually. Like you're kind of how do we keep humankind going? But I honestly think the robots are going to take us out for any of that shit kicks off anyway. I wrote down a list of how not to be an incel. Do you know what it's like? These men are going to starve to death from lack of sex. Look at me. I'm practically re virginized at this stage. You don't see me out asking society to intervene, do you?

[Vogue Williams]

You are. I. I have a. And I don't even know if you're using your bits and bobs that you have in the house anymore. You've just stopped.

[Joanne McNally]

Did that stay in.

[Joe]

What?

[Joanne McNally]

I can't even think about it. These men. I'm not being bad. I'm not being bad. When she said. That's something I say when I'm about to be bad. I know exactly the kind of men and I do. I think the date. The dating apps are very much. They're very physical. Like it's very visible.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah.

[Joanne McNally]

Do you know what I mean? If you lined up any of my ex boyfriends, I wouldn't match with any of them on a date now. Actually, no, sorry. I matched with two of them but the other five I wouldn't have. But I. When I met them in person, I was absolutely obsessed with them.

[Vogue Williams]

So I'm just saying I think it's like trying to get out. I know it's not easy, but trying to get out and meet people in real life is always going to be the better option because you will be so picky. Like I always said that about Sven. Not that he's not good looking but wouldn't have been my type at the time. I wouldn't have swiped for him. And we're married now with three kids, so better to meet somebody in real life. Yeah. He's got a snotty nose and it stinks. A drink on a ski slope.

[Joanne McNally]

Luckily for you, you are out of the trenches now. And as a woman who is very much still in them and is a product of my generation and has decentered men and now spends all my time indoors in my office. This is what I was going to say, man. Exfoliate. It's not hard. Exfoliate. Fix your scalp issues. Do not post dating profile photos in a gaming seat.

[Vogue Williams]

Yes, yes, agree.

[Joanne McNally]

That is a huge flag.

[Vogue Williams]

Do not let me don't own a gaming seat.

[Joanne McNally]

Don't have tiny windows in the background because I know it's a basement. Do not post a photo where you're wearing a Britney mike because I know you are gaming. Don't eat your dinner off a clothes horse. Don't display every bottle of Jack Daniels like it's some achievement around your house. Stop watching anime porn.

[Vogue Williams]

Good points. Potentially.

[Joanne McNally]

Buy nose clippers. All holes should be free of hair. I'm just trying to help.

[Vogue Williams]

Well, mine would be more along the lines of like, treat women with respect. Don't just expect women to want to jump at you. Understand? Like what? What? Yeah, the person you're trying to date enjoys. Go out, have fun. Don't be expectant. Be respectful, be polite.

[Joanne McNally]

Yes, the conversation was very problematic because it's like, where was the argument for men bringing something else to the table? Instead of the idea of being like handcuff a woman to a radiator and stick a baby in her against her will? Which I'm sure that's not what he was suggesting, but it certainly sounded like.

[Vogue Williams]

It definitely came across like that. And I always think that, like I, I hate this kind of cancel culture which is really going in and I'm now. And I know that we're talking about it, but we're have the conversation. I don't agree with the cancel culture. I don't think he's going to get cancelled. But I do think he needs to be more careful if he's going to go in on such a heavy topic like that. And so many heavy topics that he does go in on. Just be more careful because you've pissed off every single female that's listened to your podcast.

[Joanne McNally]

And the conversation also was about how it's kind of dangerous because he first presented as a kind of mental health guru for men and because he's got this really. There was an. There's a comedian online whose name escapes me. I'm sorry, but he did a really good video about it and he was saying that the. He's presenting these really right wing ideas, but like in front of a ring light with a really Shabazz voice. Shabazz? Yes, Shabazz. That's him.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah. Really good video on it.

[Joanne McNally]

And he was like, that's the danger. It's a. They're really toxic conversations which women are not involved in. And he's. It's coming across almost like a thought, like he's just being thoughtful, whereas actually it's like, dude, you sound like you want to roofie the world and just shag us against our will. So there you go.

[Vogue Williams]

On that note, Joanne, go out and ride someone and get pregnant, please. You're part of the problem. Okay, that's.

[Joanne McNally]

Well, that's why I'm on the hot journey.

[Vogue Williams]

I think it's really. I'm going on this journey whether you like it or not.

[Joanne McNally]

You're not.

[Vogue Williams]

Yes, I am. Yes, I am. Hi, boganjwan. I matched with this guy I remembered from our teenage years. Glow up alert. He's now in his 30s. Like me suddenly. Very good looking, decent job, brand new car, the full rebrand. We were messaging constantly. Yeah, yeah, that's Joanne. In six months. We were messaging constantly. Met up twice and wow, Red flags everywhere. Like a parade with sirens. Because I've been ghosted before and vowed to be a better person, I decided I'd end things in person. Mature, respectful, character development. He was out in town. I just finished work at 11:30pm exhausted but determined to get this over with, I offered him a lift home. I pick him up. He asked me to stay over. I say no. Then we drive past the Chinese and decide to get takeaway. This is where the horror movie really starts. The second. Oh, no. The second we. I don't even want to say this because then I'm saying it. The second sounds like he greets the server with hero in a mocking Chinese accent. I nearly left my body. Imagine, like, imagine that he thinks that that's funny. I nearly left my body from embarrassment. Important detail. I forgot to mention. I am Asian. We sit by the. Oh my God. Looking at the menu. Suddenly he snatches it out of my hands, throws it over the counter and goes to just get one of each. One of each. Like we're ordering Pokemon. What?

[Joanne McNally]

One of each of everything on the menu.

[Vogue Williams]

I don't know. I was absolutely mortified and silently apologizing to every ancestor I have in the car. He keeps asking to go back to his place. I keep saying no. Then he starts calling me names. That was it. I pulled over, told him to get out of the car. And drove off. Empowered, strong, a woman reborn. Until I realized he took all of our Chinese food. Lana Del Rey came on the radio. I was an absolute bits. The man didn't just steal my piece, he stole my spice bag. But don't worry, happy ending. I'm now in a loving relationship. I found a new Chinese, and I regularly enjoy spice bags with my partner. Shout out to Park Kitchen Sligo. Restoring my faith and takeaway and humanity.

[Joanne McNally]

What a douchebag. I. I sometimes I wonder about lads like, that. They think. They think they're being funny. Like, talk about missing the mark. And, like, it shouldn't matter that she's Asian, but also she's Asian.

[Vogue Williams]

I know, but there's. There's some men and there's a guy that I know, and, like, I had to have a word with him because, like, I don't. I don't spend a lot of time, but he said the F word in front of me loads of times.

[Joanne McNally]

Sounds like sagas.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah. Sounds like sagas.

[Joanne McNally]

Yeah. I had one of them as well.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah. And I'm like. I just said to him, I was like, you absolutely cannot use that word. Why? Why? And I'm like, because it is so beyond rude and, like, you're discriminating against people. Like, it's a slur. You shouldn't.

[Joanne McNally]

It's a homophobic slur.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah. I just feel like some people don't get it. But then I. I'm like, sorry, that man. Who's treating that face like that? Like, what age are you that you're, like, thinking that it's cool to do that? And do your parents speak like that at home? Where has that come from?

[Joanne McNally]

They probably do. You know, the older generation are like, I was seeing a guy before, and again, he was sag at this, and I can't even say it. I think it's. I actually wouldn't even say it.

[Vogue Williams]

Auntie Tina keeps doing. At the weekend, she was home with Armored. She was like, I'm going in for a fag. And Amber's like, I told you, you can't say that in front of me.

[Joanne McNally]

I still say. I still call smokes.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah, but that's.

[Joanne McNally]

I'm old school. I call that fact. Yeah, but anyway, he was calling. He was using the F word. And I was like, dude, you can't use. And he was, like, washed, like, shocked that he couldn't use the word. And it did. It made me. It made me not like him anymore, to be honest.

[Vogue Williams]

No, it really. It really puts a Dampener, somebody can say. But I know somebody else who says the odd thing and I'm like, oh. And it just comes out as a joke in a conversation and I'm like, what the. And it happens like quite often and you're just like, whoa. Like it just kind of smacks you in the face when you hear something like that.

[Joanne McNally]

I have to say, talking about racist, we all know I was the victim of a racist hate crime and someone threw a banana at me in the tube station, said top of the morning to you and it was very clear. I was like, oh, I see, I see, I see. That was. That felt to me like it was a racist hate crime. Anyway, when I first moved to the uk, I would meet people, English people obviously, and they would do the Irish accent and I found it insulting because they're doing this really over exaggerated, stupid. Oh, like this really twee Irish accent and it's giving leprechaun. And I was like, I don't think it doesn't feel right to me that you're doing that because you're making me sound really stupid and really over the top.

[Vogue Williams]

I do think, though, some accents are really hard not to mimic. Like, you know, like, I love a Manchester accent and like when I was in the jungle with ancient ginge, like I just couldn't help mimic some of the words that they were saying because I just love the accent.

[Joanne McNally]

So do I. I will do like Michelle de Swarth, who was on the pod, she's this like, really? She's real London Brixton. Well, I don't know what a Brixton accent is. I'm not, I don't know, I don't have the air for it. But like sometimes I'll impersonate her and she's like, I can't help it. I'm like, innit, bruv? And then she says, you can do it because you're Irish. We're the underdog, so we can mimic up. Do you know what I mean?

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah. I mean there's certain accents you certainly can't mimic, but like there's some that you'll get away with.

[Joanne McNally]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know there's very few.

[Vogue Williams]

Now, don't take, don't take the Mancurian accent away from me. It's like, it's all I have.

[Joanne McNally]

No. Okay.

[Vogue Williams]

I'm a 35 year old gay man, but I live and move in a very straight acting world. I work as a quantity surveyor. Well, I'm also qualified.

[Joanne McNally]

She's always surveying those quantities.

[Vogue Williams]

She's Flat out cannot stop. Look at that heist. You know how much those bricks would cost? I will tell you right now, I don't really have any game mates and I only came out to a couple of years ago. I'm finally comfortable with my sexuality. But meeting men still feels hard. There's a guy at my gym who on the surface seems straight. Over time we've had a few intense moments. Prolonged eye contact, obvious checking each other out, and one particular charged encounter in the showers and Sorry.

[Joanne McNally]

Oh, a charged encounter. Tell more.

[Vogue Williams]

I would feel like, and this is my only problem if I was a gay man. The urinals, showers, where you're all sharing, I would just feel like it's just open season. Oh, he was definitely going on to me show, flashing me his dick and like he wouldn't be. He just doing a week.

[Joanne McNally]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.

[Vogue Williams]

Nothing physical happened. But the energy. Eye contact. Eye contact and non placid. Oh, not placid. Peanut penis was undeniable. And honestly, it left me a bit obsessed. I see him regularly. I've introduced myself and know his name, but he's very hot and cold. Sometimes he says hello, sometimes he completely avoids me. My God. Said he might be closeted. That's how I feel. But I have no idea how to handle that dynamic without embarrassing myself or crossing a line. I've somehow managed to find him on Instagram, but he only ever gave me his first name. Is it weird if I follow him or do I leave it alone and let him? Yeah, I definitely wouldn't follow him. And if you, if you can't stop yourself from eventually saying something, I'd wait until your gym contract is nearly up because it'd be hard to be in the gym when you've. If he's got no interest. But there's a lot of men who are. Are closeted, I think, and that like, they will go for the, like for the odd lad. Like, we know people who are very much straight most of the time and then you hear things and it's like, whoa, hang on a second. That's not straight behavior.

[Joanne McNally]

I also know a lot of gay men who'll only ride straight lads.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah. Yeah, me too.

[Joanne McNally]

It's crazy out there, Joe. But yeah, this sounds like. I mean, it's very heated. Rivals coated, isn't it? That's how they started.

[Vogue Williams]

It sounds like fun though.

[Joanne McNally]

Yeah.

[Vogue Williams]

And they caught in the. In the coffee shop with the smoothie.

[Joanne McNally]

Yeah. But like, as my mother says, if he wants you, he knows where you are.

[Vogue Williams]

Yeah.

[Joanne McNally]

You know.

[Vogue Williams]

Quickly followed by, you're too good for him anyway. Don't mind.

[Joanne McNally]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's intimidated. I'm taking dignity into 2026. So my advice, Big year for you.

[Vogue Williams]

Are you able to, like, keep up with all this that you put on yourself?

[Joanne McNally]

You're not gonna get.

[Vogue Williams]

If you're. If you manage to pry yourself out of that office, I will be shocked. I think that's a step too far.

[Joanne McNally]

What, tomorrow? So tomorrow the tour starts back and it's hectic. It's. It's full on till May, by the way. Australia tickets still available. Brisbane, Perth, Sydney, Melbourne. And there's also tickets left for the London matinee on February 15 and blah, blah, blah. But I was like, you know what my New Year's resolution was? To leave the house more. However, I have one more day where I'm going to gift myself a full recline and a full relax for the whole day. I'm doing some press for New Zealand later on the Zooms, and I'm. I'm not going to leave the house. And then tomorrow I'll reinvent myself and start my new life.

[Vogue Williams]

Okay, fair enough.

[Joanne McNally]

Yeah, yeah. One last. One last hurrah.

[Vogue Williams]

I can't say. Listen, I. I don't know what you think everyone else is doing, but, like, not many people leave the house that much when you don't have to. When we have an outdoor job. Like, yesterday was a real struggle now for me, having to be out of the house for two different occasions.

[Joanne McNally]

You know, I don't know how you do, Lorraine. At that time in the morning, I'd be like, lorraine, I'm gonna come in in the evening. You can do a pre record.

[Vogue Williams]

I was away. I was asleep a quarter to nine last night, Joanne. That's how I do, Lorraine.

[Joanne McNally]

Train's like, tony, don't even work here. What are you talking about? Security?

[Vogue Williams]

Well, everybody, that's it. We are on a break. We're on a break only for two weeks and then we're back. We can't wait.

[Joe]

Friday the 13th.

[Joanne McNally]

We're being Friday the 13th forced off the airwaves. We don't even want to go, which is very not like us. We love to take a holiday.

[Vogue Williams]

Goodbye, you two. Don't get too hot without me, Joanne.

[Joanne McNally]

Okay, that's it for this week, like. And subscribe if you want. But, like, I'm not going to be a thirsty bitch like Stephen Barlow.

[Vogue Williams]

This has been a global player.

[Joanne McNally]

Original production.