My Therapist Ghosted Me: MTGM EXTRA! "Rejection..." – With Michelle de Swarte

Podcast: My Therapist Ghosted Me
Hosts: Joanne McNally (A), Michelle de Swarte (B)
Air Date: December 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This bonus episode reunites Joanne McNally with comedian Michelle de Swarte for an honest, hilarious chat revolving around rejection—professional and personal—and how to handle it. With Vogue Williams away, the duo dives into tales from showbiz, advice for listeners, and the realities of life as a woman approaching (or in) her 40s, all delivered with their trademark wit and candour.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up and Celebrity Jungle Tales

• Vogue in the Jungle: The friends discuss Vogue’s ordeal in the jungle, referencing reality TV, celebrity meet-ups, and behind-the-scenes logistics.

  • On why friends don’t greet celebs off the bridge anymore:

    "The person who meets you off the bridge has to be free to go out to Australia for two weeks … that’s why you see a lot of these celebrities being met by their managers." – Joanne [00:57]

• Funny Production Anomalies: Michelle explains show time-zone quirks and bizarre meals while overseas, referencing her own panel work in Australia.

  • "They keep you on British time. Girl, you are waking up at, like, the morning and you're having a steak and mash … lasagna for breakfast. Like, they keep you on British time. It's mental." – Michelle [01:10]

2. Careers, Gigs, & Voiceover Madness

• The struggles of voiceover, the monotony, and being unrecognizable in your own adverts.
  • As Joanne puts it:

    "When I did the voiceover for the Furby podcast … I actually don’t even know how I sound or speak anymore." [02:44]

  • Michelle observes the weirdness of voiceovers:

    "Being hungover and hearing your own voice say that you should get a burger... it feels like an intervention from God." [03:11]

3. Press, Anxiety, and Avoiding Self-Sabotage

• Discussing the paranoia of press appearances, the risk of saying the wrong thing, and ruminating after interviews.

  • "You come out and you’re like, I’m so paranoid that I said something, anything about... Have I pissed anyone off? I didn’t mean it..." – Joanne [03:32]

• Azealia Banks Segment: Michelle and Joanne explore the phenomenon of self-sabotage in public life, using Azealia Banks as a prime example, citing her inflammatory online behaviour and undiminished career.

  • "She is conflict. Gagging for it. There is no stopping her… She’ll do mental tweets… She told Ireland...called us all ugly leprechauns." – Joanne [04:12]

  • "Azealia Banks talks the way you chat with your friend after two bottles … She wakes up, brushes her teeth, and thinks, I’m gonna get on a public forum and let people know how I really feel." – Michelle [06:43]

• Michelle points out the contradiction:

  • "She said the F word about gay men and then still headlines... gay pride in Miami or whatever. Basically, Azealia Banks—take her as a pinch of salt." [05:12]

4. The Reality of Gigs and Selling Tickets

• The conversation drifts to the stresses of gig promotion and selling tickets to shows, highlighting the contrast between perceived success and real anxiety.

  • "Joanne’s doing arenas. I just need 300 of you to turn up to exit. That’s it. A humble 300." – Michelle [08:35]

  • "People are like, 'Oh, congratulations, you're doing arena.' I was like, no, no, the congratulations comes... At the moment, it is completely empty." – Joanne [09:04]

• The birthday party metaphor for selling shows:

  • "Putting on a show... it feels like a birthday party... you can see your friend stressing a bit, but you’ve turned up on time... Are people going to come?" – Michelle [09:23]

5. Listener Dilemma: Professional & Personal Rejection [10:08–17:37]

Email Excerpt:
A listener (age 39) writes in feeling stuck—her job hunt has been nothing but rejections, and she’s tired of her own pep talks. She seeks advice: how do you keep going when nothing seems to work out?

Michelle’s Insightful Advice:

• "39 is an absolute Babylon section of life... I moved back to London at 39 … zero career... You’re gonna have to take some gambles on yourself… If you've already f***ed your life beyond recognition, who gives a shit at this point?" [11:04]
• "When everything is in disarray, stop drinking for a little while… have a little time off until you get your shit in order." [12:03]
• "Beating yourself up for where you are – it’s motivating, but don’t let it defeat you."

Joanne’s Perspective:

• Shares her own story of personal rejection after moving to London—facilitating empathy and humour:
  • "I bumped into a lot of people in auditions ... not a single one of them came back ... The only one who came back was Roisin Conaty." [13:07]
• Advice to "stick with it; you gotta roll with the punches."

Both Emphasize:

• Routine and Consistency: Get off social media, start working out, take vitamins, get a routine.

  • "If you start tapping in too much to what other people are doing, you’re gonna free fall and start losing your mind..." – Michelle [13:18]

• Identity Crisis is Normal: Many women experience upheaval and loss of self, especially before 40.

  • "So many women I know, just before 40, everything goes to shit, and you have a whole identity crisis because you're like, ‘I’m a bougie bitch, why am I living so poor?’" – Michelle [14:13]

6. Aging, Societal Pressures & Relationships

• Discuss the internal and external expectations that come with being a woman in her late 30s and entering her 40s, especially related to relationships and societal "milestones."

  • "When you get to your 40s, you look back at the package that was sold to you in your 20s, what you’re supposed to be doing, and you realize it’s a load of bollocks." – Joanne [16:44]

• The pressure on single, straight women turning 40:

  • "If you're on any apps, the second that 40 hits your dating profile... you're in a different bracket. I think you're on some jizzy supermarket sweep … you want something from them..." – Michelle [16:02]

7. Friendship Moments, Routine, and Well-Being

• The two share stories of attempts at sober socializing—walks, tennis—and how quickly their ambitions for healthy habits can be derailed.

  • "Always want to bring Michelle to the pub ... she's like, 'Joanne, we have to do sober things sometimes together, like walks' ... and I'm like, no, I just want to go on the piss with you all the time." – Joanne [18:29]

• The comedy of “healthy” plans gone awry:

  • "We were as athletic as kicking a tin can down the street ... after 15 minutes, I was like, I'm over this." – Joanne [19:25]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Azealia Banks’s Brand:

  "She's unfiltered. She's got the Kanye Twitter fingers at the ready." – Michelle [06:03]

• On Professional Anxiety:

  "I was like, 'Did I piss off anyone? I didn't mean it' … the head spin and yeah, ruminating…" – Joanne [03:32]

• On Reinventing at 39:

  "You're going to just have to make some big changes and big sacrifices and just be like it ... me at 39, I was staying at my sister's house in my niece's old single bed." – Michelle [12:04]

• On Societal Lies:

  "When you get to your 40s, you look back at the package that was sold to you in your 20s, what you're supposed to be doing, and you realize it's a load of bollocks." – Joanne [16:44]

• On Friendship and Attempts at Sobriety:

  "We were as athletic as kicking a tin can down the street. That was us." – Michelle [19:25]

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:16: Michelle rejoins and banter begins
• 01:10: The oddities of working in Australian TV
• 03:12: Azealia Banks's online persona
• 08:35: Reality of selling tickets vs. public perception
• 10:08: Listener’s email about persistent rejection
• 11:18–14:27: Michelle and Joanne’s advice on career failure, identity crisis
• 16:00: Dating and turning 40 as a single, straight woman
• 17:10: Commentary on societal lies for women entering 40s
• 18:29–19:55: Outings, attempts at fitness, and inevitable retreat to the pub

Conclusion: Typical MTGM Vibes, With a Dose of Real Talk

True to the pod’s spirit, this episode mixes punchy humour with sincere advice. Michelle and Joanne remind listeners that rejection and rerouting (especially later in life) are normal, albeit gutting, and that the only real answer is keeping perspective, relying on healthy routines, and having a solid laugh with friends—preferably over a glass (or several) of wine.

Quote to Sum Up:

"We're trying our best." – Joanne [20:00]