MTGM EXTRA! "Rejection..." - With Michelle de Swarte

Summary

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My Therapist Ghosted Me: MTGM EXTRA! "Rejection..." – With Michelle de Swarte

Podcast: My Therapist Ghosted Me
Hosts: Joanne McNally (A), Michelle de Swarte (B)
Air Date: December 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode reunites Joanne McNally with comedian Michelle de Swarte for an honest, hilarious chat revolving around rejection—professional and personal—and how to handle it. With Vogue Williams away, the duo dives into tales from showbiz, advice for listeners, and the realities of life as a woman approaching (or in) her 40s, all delivered with their trademark wit and candour.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up and Celebrity Jungle Tales

• Vogue in the Jungle: The friends discuss Vogue’s ordeal in the jungle, referencing reality TV, celebrity meet-ups, and behind-the-scenes logistics.

  • On why friends don’t greet celebs off the bridge anymore:

    "The person who meets you off the bridge has to be free to go out to Australia for two weeks … that’s why you see a lot of these celebrities being met by their managers." – Joanne [00:57]

• Funny Production Anomalies: Michelle explains show time-zone quirks and bizarre meals while overseas, referencing her own panel work in Australia.

  • "They keep you on British time. Girl, you are waking up at, like, the morning and you're having a steak and mash … lasagna for breakfast. Like, they keep you on British time. It's mental." – Michelle [01:10]

2. Careers, Gigs, & Voiceover Madness

• The struggles of voiceover, the monotony, and being unrecognizable in your own adverts.
  • As Joanne puts it:

    "When I did the voiceover for the Furby podcast … I actually don’t even know how I sound or speak anymore." [02:44]

  • Michelle observes the weirdness of voiceovers:

    "Being hungover and hearing your own voice say that you should get a burger... it feels like an intervention from God." [03:11]

3. Press, Anxiety, and Avoiding Self-Sabotage

• Discussing the paranoia of press appearances, the risk of saying the wrong thing, and ruminating after interviews.

  • "You come out and you’re like, I’m so paranoid that I said something, anything about... Have I pissed anyone off? I didn’t mean it..." – Joanne [03:32]

• Azealia Banks Segment: Michelle and Joanne explore the phenomenon of self-sabotage in public life, using Azealia Banks as a prime example, citing her inflammatory online behaviour and undiminished career.

  • "She is conflict. Gagging for it. There is no stopping her… She’ll do mental tweets… She told Ireland...called us all ugly leprechauns." – Joanne [04:12]

  • "Azealia Banks talks the way you chat with your friend after two bottles … She wakes up, brushes her teeth, and thinks, I’m gonna get on a public forum and let people know how I really feel." – Michelle [06:43]

• Michelle points out the contradiction:

  • "She said the F word about gay men and then still headlines... gay pride in Miami or whatever. Basically, Azealia Banks—take her as a pinch of salt." [05:12]

4. The Reality of Gigs and Selling Tickets

• The conversation drifts to the stresses of gig promotion and selling tickets to shows, highlighting the contrast between perceived success and real anxiety.

  • "Joanne’s doing arenas. I just need 300 of you to turn up to exit. That’s it. A humble 300." – Michelle [08:35]

  • "People are like, 'Oh, congratulations, you're doing arena.' I was like, no, no, the congratulations comes... At the moment, it is completely empty." – Joanne [09:04]

• The birthday party metaphor for selling shows:

  • "Putting on a show... it feels like a birthday party... you can see your friend stressing a bit, but you’ve turned up on time... Are people going to come?" – Michelle [09:23]

5. Listener Dilemma: Professional & Personal Rejection [10:08–17:37]

Email Excerpt:
A listener (age 39) writes in feeling stuck—her job hunt has been nothing but rejections, and she’s tired of her own pep talks. She seeks advice: how do you keep going when nothing seems to work out?

Michelle’s Insightful Advice:

• "39 is an absolute Babylon section of life... I moved back to London at 39 … zero career... You’re gonna have to take some gambles on yourself… If you've already f***ed your life beyond recognition, who gives a shit at this point?" [11:04]
• "When everything is in disarray, stop drinking for a little while… have a little time off until you get your shit in order." [12:03]
• "Beating yourself up for where you are – it’s motivating, but don’t let it defeat you."

Joanne’s Perspective:

• Shares her own story of personal rejection after moving to London—facilitating empathy and humour:
  • "I bumped into a lot of people in auditions ... not a single one of them came back ... The only one who came back was Roisin Conaty." [13:07]
• Advice to "stick with it; you gotta roll with the punches."

Both Emphasize:

• Routine and Consistency: Get off social media, start working out, take vitamins, get a routine.

  • "If you start tapping in too much to what other people are doing, you’re gonna free fall and start losing your mind..." – Michelle [13:18]

• Identity Crisis is Normal: Many women experience upheaval and loss of self, especially before 40.

  • "So many women I know, just before 40, everything goes to shit, and you have a whole identity crisis because you're like, ‘I’m a bougie bitch, why am I living so poor?’" – Michelle [14:13]

6. Aging, Societal Pressures & Relationships

• Discuss the internal and external expectations that come with being a woman in her late 30s and entering her 40s, especially related to relationships and societal "milestones."

  • "When you get to your 40s, you look back at the package that was sold to you in your 20s, what you’re supposed to be doing, and you realize it’s a load of bollocks." – Joanne [16:44]

• The pressure on single, straight women turning 40:

  • "If you're on any apps, the second that 40 hits your dating profile... you're in a different bracket. I think you're on some jizzy supermarket sweep … you want something from them..." – Michelle [16:02]

7. Friendship Moments, Routine, and Well-Being

• The two share stories of attempts at sober socializing—walks, tennis—and how quickly their ambitions for healthy habits can be derailed.

  • "Always want to bring Michelle to the pub ... she's like, 'Joanne, we have to do sober things sometimes together, like walks' ... and I'm like, no, I just want to go on the piss with you all the time." – Joanne [18:29]

• The comedy of “healthy” plans gone awry:

  • "We were as athletic as kicking a tin can down the street ... after 15 minutes, I was like, I'm over this." – Joanne [19:25]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Azealia Banks’s Brand:

  "She's unfiltered. She's got the Kanye Twitter fingers at the ready." – Michelle [06:03]

• On Professional Anxiety:

  "I was like, 'Did I piss off anyone? I didn't mean it' … the head spin and yeah, ruminating…" – Joanne [03:32]

• On Reinventing at 39:

  "You're going to just have to make some big changes and big sacrifices and just be like it ... me at 39, I was staying at my sister's house in my niece's old single bed." – Michelle [12:04]

• On Societal Lies:

  "When you get to your 40s, you look back at the package that was sold to you in your 20s, what you're supposed to be doing, and you realize it's a load of bollocks." – Joanne [16:44]

• On Friendship and Attempts at Sobriety:

  "We were as athletic as kicking a tin can down the street. That was us." – Michelle [19:25]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:16: Michelle rejoins and banter begins
• 01:10: The oddities of working in Australian TV
• 03:12: Azealia Banks's online persona
• 08:35: Reality of selling tickets vs. public perception
• 10:08: Listener’s email about persistent rejection
• 11:18–14:27: Michelle and Joanne’s advice on career failure, identity crisis
• 16:00: Dating and turning 40 as a single, straight woman
• 17:10: Commentary on societal lies for women entering 40s
• 18:29–19:55: Outings, attempts at fitness, and inevitable retreat to the pub

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Conclusion: Typical MTGM Vibes, With a Dose of Real Talk

True to the pod’s spirit, this episode mixes punchy humour with sincere advice. Michelle and Joanne remind listeners that rejection and rerouting (especially later in life) are normal, albeit gutting, and that the only real answer is keeping perspective, relying on healthy routines, and having a solid laugh with friends—preferably over a glass (or several) of wine.

Quote to Sum Up:

"We're trying our best." – Joanne [20:00]

Transcript

[A]

This is a Global Player original podcast. Welcome to the bonus episode of My Therapist Goes to Me. With me, Jamal McNally. And she's back.

[B]

Yeah, baby.

[A]

Michelle Deswart. She's here again.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Salutations. I.

[A]

Just to be clear, we're double recording this because Michelle's a busy. So we haven't seen any more of Vogue's jungle's story.

[B]

No, but. But my God, we've got a lot to go on. Do you know what I mean? We've got a lot to go on. She's arrived. She's had shit chucked at her. It's been horrific to watch, but she's keeping a smile on her face.

[A]

She is. I was gonna go on the Lorraine. I was. I was gonna go on Lorraine to help, I don't know, like, rally, but I couldn't do it.

[B]

Are you gonna come and meet her from the jungle?

[A]

I'd love to.

[B]

You've got him.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

Oh, the bridge thing is a real issue because the person who meets you off the bridge has to be free to go out to Australia for two weeks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, most people can't do that. So that's why you see a lot of these celebrities being met by their managers and all. You know what I mean?

[B]

So you know what? Right? This is something they also don't tell you when you go out there because, you know, I did the panel years ago because Jack was born at swine flu. Right. So what they don't tell you is we're. If you're on the panel doing anything like that, that isn't in the jungle. They keep you on British time. They keep you on British time. Girl, you are waking up at, like, the morning and you're having a steak and mash. You're having lasagna for breakfast. Like, they keep you on British time. It's mental.

[A]

I remember I was down to the last couple of people to get the voiceover for Love Island, Australia.

[B]

Random. Yeah.

[A]

And then I didn't get it in the end and Stephen Mullen, who did get it, then covert happened, so. Because usually you fly out to Australia.

[B]

They make you fly out to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For voiceover. Yeah.

[A]

Before covered. Anyway. Yeah. You had to fly out. Yeah.

[B]

No one tell him. Yeah, yeah. I've got to be there in person. Yeah, yeah. I bring my mic with me.

[A]

But I think loads of people, they would like. I was like, oh, yeah, that'd be like. I was kind of wanted to go out. But anyway, Covert happened and they. He was in A hotel room. But he was on Australian time. He was on his own in a hotel room record. And I was like, I'm actually so glad I didn't get that.

[B]

It's driving mental. Yeah.

[A]

Sheer crack.

[B]

Yeah. I went for them two days. Like, I did a gig. One gig over my birthday last month. And I was like. I came back and I was spun out. Yeah. Yeah. Massively. Yeah. Voiceover is great, man.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I love it. It's my. I'm the voice of delivery. It's my favorite job. Yeah.

[A]

It's easy because you're just in and out. You can look like a bag of if you want. No one cares.

[B]

They prefer.

[A]

They prefer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then. But it does get monotony. Do you ever do so much voiceover work? Do you? I remember when I did the voiceover when I was doing the VO for the Furby podcast, and I was like, I actually don't even know how I sound or speak anymore. When you speak so much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You kind of lose how you. Your words are coming out of your mouth.

[B]

I'm always shocked when I. When I hear the adverts come on. Like, I'm like, wow. Yeah. That is not how I think I sound. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But I've got to say as well, being hungover and hearing your own voice say that you should get a burger.

[A]

And chips is enticing.

[B]

Ah, solid. Yeah. But it feels like an intervention from God. You're just like, I guess I should then wait. You wanted to chat about Azealia Banks. Why? You sent me. You sent me a. Just a WhatsApp going Azealia Banks. I was like, what?

[A]

Well, so when I was doing the. I was doing. I'm doing a lot of press at the moment because I'm doing.

[B]

I'm fucking arena. Put that up, you fucking fanny o. Shut the fuck up. Don't ever question me an arena.

[A]

I know. You know yourself. It's a bit. I am.

[B]

No, I don't know myself, Bez. I'm trying to shift the bloody 300 seater in Swindon. You're like, you know yourself.

[A]

You have a load of London shows gone. Yeah. You do know. Also, Michelle was on RuPaul's Drag Race. So anyway, I was doing this, and, you know, the radio station comes down. You're like, talking and talking. And I came out and I was like, I'm so paranoid that I said something, anything about. Because a lot. You're like, did I? Because I was saying, oh, you know, I'm ready in time. And I've, you know, I. It's. It's. It would be harder if you kind of blew up online and then you're doing big rooms and you're not necessarily ready.

[B]

You put the work in, you know, you're putting.

[A]

Well, the stage time is there anyway. Then after you're like, oh my God, am I. Have I pissed off like anyone? I didn't mean it by blah blah. Anyway, the head spin and yeah, ruminating blah blah. Then I was thinking about a Z. This is why I text you think about Azealia Banks and the amount like, I'm very conflict averse. She is conflict. Gagging for it. She. There is no stopping her. She'll do mental tweets. She. She told Ireland. She did a tweet about Ireland and called us all ugly leprechauns. Like the whole country. Do you remember that?

[B]

No.

[A]

And then she had that weird interaction with Conor McGregor where she asked him to back her up and then it turns out they were sexing each other. Anyway.

[B]

Do you remember when she. That Russell came. Russell Crowe flobbed on her in a hotel room. What?

[A]

No.

[B]

He spat on her in a hotel room.

[A]

What?

[B]

And I think RZA from the Wuang clan took her. And he was like. After. They were like, is this true? And he was like, nah, it's not. I took her with me. It ended up being crazy. This is what I love about Aelia Banks. Yeah. She said some absolutely horrendous stuff to everybody.

[A]

I'm actually getting the article up.

[B]

And. And, and she is forgiven, right? She. Listen, well, listen. She said the F word about gay men and she then still headlines. I think it was like some sort of gay pride in Miami or whatever. Basically, Aelia Banks kind of take her as a pinch of salt. She's very like, inflammatory, I guess. And I also feel with Azealia Banks, she's massively talented and like, I feel like Azealia Banks ran so Doce could walk. Yeah, yeah. Because they're very similar. But you know what I mean, like, as in like the across genres of music. Can both sing. Also killer lyricist. But Azealia Banks is just like, everything's going well. And then she's like, I'm gonna blow up this. I'm gonna napalm my life right now.

[A]

Is she self sabotaging? Is that what she's up to?

[B]

She is. She's unfiltered. She's got. She's got the Kanye Twitter fingers at the ready.

[A]

Yeah, she does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Banks penchant for conflict. Nearly eclipses her bars in the years since her first mixtape dropped in 2012. If one thing, she's actually becoming known for her endless list of feuds on and off social media. She hopped. In March 2024, banks hopped on Instagram to critique the COVID and title of Beyonce's album Cowboy Carter. Despite Beyonce herself explaining the meaning behind the project and why she decided to make an entire album in a genre she's only previously dabbled in, Banks weighed in with a litany of assumptions and criticisms ranging from a lack of creativity to outright ignorance.

[B]

Listen, Azealia Banks here. Azealia Banks talks the way you chat with your friend. After two bottles away, she wakes up in the morning, she brushes her teeth, and she's like, I'm gonna get on a public forum and let people know how I really feel. You're like, baby, that could stick in this.

[A]

It's stick. That's for the notes.

[B]

Yeah, but now, Celia. Yeah, now it's like. It's part of her brand. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

I know it kind of is.

[B]

Yeah. She's gonna up.

[A]

Yeah, you're right.

[B]

Yeah, I love it.

[A]

Sculpture, as they say.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

I. I saw Douche at a glass to be and it was. It was next level. Phenomenal.

[B]

Yeah, phenomenal.

[A]

Look, she made everyone else look like they were ringing it in.

[B]

To be honest, this is what I say about press runs, right. Because I've done a few.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I reckon, like, when you're chatting to the press, take your time. There's. Yeah. Journalists have got a really good way of staying quiet, and they and us as public speakers want to fill that time. Yeah. We're like, oh, there's an awkward silence. I must fill it with talking gibberish. And then before you know it, you're like, ah, I've got stinky funny and I've boil on the bottom of my back. And you're like, what the. Am I saying?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[A]

It's like a therapy session. That's why therapists stay quiet, to make you admit that you've got all this. You don't have.

[B]

Exactly. So I. I always think, let the awkward silence sit. And if you're ever. Because I had to do some press training, which HBO paid for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Media training. Yeah. Because you're going on a big press run. So they're like, make sure you know how to handle this situation. And I had to sit with someone from, like. He trained you. Impress. And he was like, if you're asked A question that you're not sure if you want to answer. Have a sip of water. Just like, let the silence sit there. And I. That's why I say us as public speakers, we're like, silence now. I will.

[A]

I will.

[B]

Krypton. This is kryptonite to me. I'm going to keep on talking. It's like, you don't need to. You can let silence sit in the air.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Listen, Joanne's doing arena. Good for her. Now I've got some tickets to bloody shift. Okay, well, I'm going all around the Uk Swindon exit, Farnham, wherever the that is. Listen, right, this is. I'm telling. Look, Joanne's doing arenas. I just need 300 of you to turn up to exit. That's it. A humble. A humble 300. As you will. As you will.

[A]

And I need some. I'm actually got some.

[B]

About 30,000 to come.

[A]

If you could rally your mates there, your family tree. Yeah, things have really escalated over this side and I'm fucking in a desperate bid now to fucking feel this thing because people are like, oh, congratulations, you're doing arena. I was like, no, no. The congratulations comes. You know what it's like. I'm like, I've just rented it at this point, but at the moment it is completely empty.

[B]

How it feels? Yeah, Putting on a show, whatever the size. It feels like, you know when you have a birthday party and like, you're the. Like you're the first mate to turn up to the party and you're like, you know, you can see your friend stressing a bit, but you've turned up on time. You know, no one else is going to turn up on time. And so you start dancing really big on the dance floor and like, you're like, oh, all this space. I love it. I'm having the best time ever. Like, that is the vibe of putting on your own show. You're just like. It feels like a birthday party. You're like, is. Are people going to come?

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Sounds like super.

[B]

An email. Yeah, yeah. Can't wait.

[A]

Okay, so. Hello, Juan and Vogue in brackets.

[B]

Michelle.

[A]

I love listening to you both because you give sound advice. I'm 39 and it feels like my life has hit reverse. Not just a gentle rollback, more like full on formula one backwards. I'm job hunting day in and day out and I'm not getting anywhere. I'm mentally done in from applying for jobs and doing interviews and getting rejection after rejection.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Oh. It's professional rejection. If there was an Oscars for most Rejected woman. I'd win it. I know all the sayings, what's for you? Won't pass you by. Trust the timing, blah, blah, blah. But honestly, oh, God, love it. Some days I want to throw my laptop on the floor and say, fuck this for the crack. Have either of you ever gone through a phase where nothing goes right? How did you keep going? What did you tell yourselves when everything felt pointless? At this stage, I'm tired of my own pep talks. I nearly could nearly give myself the ick. Keep up the good work.

[B]

Fucking hell. Right, have I got some bloody advice for you, because 39 is an absolute Babylon section of life, like it is. So just to make you feel better, listener, writer, inner reader.

[A]

Anon.

[B]

Anon is me. So I moved back to London at 39. I didn't have. I had two suitcases and had zero career. I think something happens and I ended up writing a show about it. Spent right. But I. This is my advice to you would be don't stress too much. You're gonna have to take some gambles on yourself. You're probably trying to play a bit too safe because you want to stay on the side of caution. But if you've already your life beyond recognition, who gives a shit at this point, it's gonna need a big change. You're gonna have to dash some chips on the table and make some bets on yourself. And. And also what I would say. And now listen, I hate to say this, but when everything is in disarray, stop drinking for a little while.

[A]

Yeah?

[B]

You can drink again. All right, I'm back on the source. But have a little time off until you get your in order. Like, you're going to just have to make some big changes and big sacrifices and just be like it. But me at 39, I was staying at my sister's house in my niece's old single bed that still had graffiti written on the wall from when my niece was a teenager. My brother. I turned 40 in that bed and I remember being like, no fucking way. I was so raging about my situation. It was highly motivating.

[A]

Do you know what I was rejected at the most by was it wasn't professional direction. When I first got to London, I bumped into a lot of people in auditions and whatever it is, and they knew I was new to London and I had no mates. I hadn't had the great joy of you yet. And me and Vogue were friendly. Me and Vogue obviously were mates, but that was. She was kind of all I had. And people would say to me, oh, do you wanna meet? I'll meet you for a coffee. Let me know if you want to meet for coffee. And then when I actually asked them to do it, not a single one of them came back. Do you know the only one who came back was Roisin Connachty?

[B]

Yeah, she's solid. She's solid.

[A]

So I know what it's like. It's shit. And you question yourself. You're like, oh, blah, blah, blah. But you just have to stick with it because you gotta roll with the punches.

[B]

Yeah? And. And I really think we live in a world now where, like, you're just disillusioned because you see the end result of everything. You're just like, ah, look what they're doing. Look what they're doing. Get off social media for a little bit. Go bloody gym, Start a routine. This is baby steps. It's boring, it's monotonous. But, like, if you start tapping in too much to what other people are doing, you're gonna free fall and start losing your. So it's like, yeah, this is rubbish. Anytime you open up your phone, everyone's killing the game. They're on jet skis, you know what I mean? In bloody Dubai with a falcon on their arm. Like, just don't. Like, just don't. Don't get too caught up in it. You've got to start, like a routine and be consistent with it. So whether that's going gym and looking after yourself, taking all the vitamins and laying off the sauce, that's what I would say. And just tell yourself that, like, this is what you're doing, because that's the reality. But when I tell you there's so many women, I know that, like, just before 40, everything goes to. And you have a whole identity crisis because you're like, I'm a bougie bitch. Why am I living so poor? This does not align with who I see myself as. And it's just a big identity shift and it's fucking terrible. But like, babes, do you know what I mean?

[A]

You gotta trust the process of life.

[B]

It's long. But, like, all we see is end results. All we see is the end results. And it's like it takes baby steps to make happen. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, that. And like, that's what I'd say.

[A]

Yeah, perfect. Yeah, she smashed it.

[B]

No, but it's true, though.

[A]

Oh, it's totally true.

[B]

39. Will. Will. With your brain.

[A]

It is. Because you do feel. I. I was actually, I think because.

[B]

You think you're so well, it's like I was chatting to one of my support ladies because they're all in their 20s, and she was like, I'm 27. I'm really going through it. And I was like, Babes, 27 is a really hard year because you haven't hit 30 yet. You feel older at 27 than you do at 31, and it's like one of them big changes. We're like, when you hit your 30s, you're like, oh, this is the teenage years of adulthood. And I think when you hit your 40s, when it finally comes, you're like, ah, okay, relief. I'm a proper adult now. There's no one to blame. There's no. This happened to my childhood and my mum was in there. No one gives a shit. Yeah, no one cares anymore. And that's. There's certain peace in that 100.

[A]

I. I had my turning. I had my little midlife crisis, and I wouldn't even call it a crisis when I turned 30, when I turned 40, I was like, I'm good to go. Kind of had my little mental breakdown in my early 30s. Got my together and, like, I'm in a good place. So turning 40 to me was fine. But I know for a lot of people turning 40, it's a. It's a big time for a reflection.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where am I? Where am I going? What have I done? But, like, 40 is the new 20.

[B]

Yeah. But, mate, being broke at 40 is different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Especially.

[B]

Especially if you're straight. Oh. Oh, gross. Terrible. Disgusting.

[A]

Why straight?

[B]

Well, because I think if you're straight and you're on. And you're single, if you're on any apps, the second that 40 hits your. Hits your, like, dating profile and that age comes up, you're in a different bracket. Yeah. I think you're on some jizzy supermarket sweep and you're trying to get pregnant or like, you want something from them and, like, yeah, you do their soul. But that's beside the point, you know? Beside the point.

[A]

Also, we talk about relationships.

[B]

Yeah. I just mean, like, 40 just does something like if you're single, if you're straight, if you're. It's a little bit harder because you're going through, like, the. The norms of society as well, you know? I mean, your reflection is that. So you're like, oh, I'm gonna demon myself. Yeah. I ain't got any kids. I married.

[A]

We both know that. It's like, that's kind of what pedophile is about to Be honest. It's like the, the reality check of actually what that's packaged as is no longer it's we. We. When you get to your 40s, you, you, you look back at the package that was sold to you in your 20s, what you're supposed to be doing, and you realize it's a load of bollocks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Living our best lives. Yeah, kind of.

[B]

Yeah. I never had that package, so I was just like, whatever. No one was going get mad. No one.

[A]

Well, it wasn't like being. I wasn't like being forced. It wasn't like being forced down the aisle. I wasn't being trafficked or anything, but it was like that was just what the women around me, they were.

[B]

Can you imagine if you was trafficked and you're still single?

[A]

Like, they bent her back.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're just like, nah, this has got a 30 day warranty.

[A]

Too much stress.

[B]

We rung out and we're good.

[A]

Michelle, thank you so much for coming in.

[B]

As always, it has been an absolute pleasure. I, I don't sound as excited as I am, which is not that. No, no, genuine. Do you know what? As well, like, when was the last time me and you hung out?

[A]

I know, I can't remember.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Drinking coffee.

[A]

Oh, well, it was at the Apollo.

[B]

Oh, no, wait, didn't we go for a walk since then? Oh, my God. Yes, we went for a walk.

[A]

Sorry, I.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because my memory is that my, my, my. I've the memory of you leaving the house when you said, when did we last. Okay. That was the memory that popped into my house.

[B]

When we speak about the fact that me and you, I've. We and Joanne have lived near each other for years now. And I'm always like, let's go to the Common. Joanne, do you want to come for a picnic on the Common? Let's go to the Common. And then literally a couple of weeks ago, you was like, right, I'm gonna meet you Sunday morning, we're going for a walk. And it was like knocking for your mate to come out and play. I was like, buzz, the buzzer. You came skipping down the stairs. We did a couple of, we did a couple of laps.

[A]

Always want to bring Michelle to the pub. That's the problem. And she's like, joanne, we have to just do sober things sometimes together, like walks and stuff. And I'm like, no, yeah, I just want to go on the piss with you all the time. Do you remember when we played tennis? We played tennis. I was really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I was off the booze at the time. Okay, Come on, let's get a hobby.

[B]

Tennis ball was in the hottest day of the year. I think we lasted 20 minutes in. You was like, I'm over this. If we hit about four, three balls consistently. Yeah, yeah. And I said, we're doing 45 minutes. Then we did it. And he was like, oh. And I was like, yeah, let's go. Pub.

[A]

The rockets have never been touched since.

[B]

The way we were dressed up for tennis, like it was a fashion show, Like. Like Barbie tennis day. We were like, yeah. Visors. Joanne came with no water. No water, no water.

[A]

It was so. We were so out of our comfort zone. We were just like, this is ludicrous. But look, we made an effort. Let's go to the water.

[B]

We were as athletic as kicking a tin can down the street. That was us.

[A]

Two of us.

[B]

Just sweat. Yeah. Not as much precision.

[A]

I literally, after 15 minutes, was like, I'm over this terrible position.

[B]

The way we skipped into the pub, like, we are sporty girls. We were like, oh, these rackets. Oh, God. Slung them down on the table. Hey, Michelle, you got the rackets, so I'll go and get the wine. Okay. Yeah, okay. Tennis was great.

[A]

I got rackets, Michelle.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Where? I went into the pubs. They think I've just done something really like athletic on the way in. I know, but look, we're trying.

[B]

We try. We're trying our best.

[A]

We're trying our best.

[B]

It's been a pleasure.

[A]

We just love a wine. Yeah, I love good wines and shots. It's one of my favorite things to do.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Anyway, thanks so much for doing it, Michelle.

[B]

You're welcome.

[A]

This has been a global player, original production.