Mum Guilt, P*rn Ban & Labels

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Therapist Ghosted Me

Episode: Mum Guilt, P*rn Ban & Labels

Hosts: Vogue Williams & Joanne McNally

Date: December 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Vogue and Joanne deliver their trademark blend of honesty and humor as they discuss a wide range of topics, centering on societal views of "mum guilt," changing rules around children’s presence on social media, restrictions on adult content online, the culture of dating apps, and the proliferation of personal relationship labels. The hosts freely riff on generational dilemmas, modern relationships, and their everyday experiences—all while injecting a dose of playful self-deprecation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Vogue’s New YouTube Venture

• Vogue announces she’s launching a YouTube channel called "What Does She Even Do?" using an OSMO camera (00:23–02:24).
• Joanne offers marketing advice, suggesting that including Vogue’s real name might be more effective for branding (02:31–03:13).
• They discuss the dominance of digital creators and how platforms like YouTube and Twitch are transforming "TV" consumption. Joanne muses, “TV’s dying. YouTube is on the rise.” (00:50)

2. Public Perceptions and ‘Mum Guilt’

• Vogue addresses online criticism received after leaving her young children to participate in a TV show, discussing the persistent double standards for mothers vs. fathers (04:44–05:24).
  • “Boring men can go and do whatever they want. But if a woman wants to work...don't even dream about doing it without getting some level of abuse.” (05:03, Vogue)
• The discussion pivots to the rise of traditions like "trad wives" and "submissive wives," exploring their conflicting feelings about such roles and women's choices (05:24–06:13).
• Joanne shares a personal anecdote about witnessing a friend’s painful FaceTime call with her young child and finally empathizing with the pain of ‘mum guilt’ (06:13–07:59).
  • “It was the first time I’ve ever actually understood what that means.” (07:00, Joanne)
• Vogue explains how she planned special time with her kids to offset guilt, while simultaneously feeling "work guilt" when she isn't pursuing her career (07:59–08:56).

3. The Never-Ending Maternal Instinct

• Joanne talks about her own mother constantly worrying about her—even tracking her WhatsApp status at 42 years old (08:56–09:53).
  • "Does the worrying ever go? And she’s like, it never, ever goes. Never." (09:51, Joanne)
• The hosts connect this instinct to their own anxieties and health fears post-parenthood (09:54–10:28).

4. Modern Health Anxiety

• They joke about preventative health, getting MRIs, and full body scans, and introduce “fofo”—fear of finding out—to describe health avoidance (12:14–12:20).
  • “Fear of finding out. So people are just like, no, I'm too scared to find out, so I'd rather not do it.” (12:15, Vogue)
• Grousing over waiting times in Ireland’s private care, they muse about X-ray machines and “raw dogging it” in swimming pools amid fears of verucas (14:21–14:59).

5. Kids on YouTube and Legal Liabilities

• Joanne cautions Vogue about new child protection laws and potential future pay-outs for children featured on social platforms (14:59–15:15).
  • “Gigi’s going to unionize. She’s going to come to you when she’s 18 and be like, you owe me 60 grand.” (14:59, Joanne)
• They recall notorious “mommy influencers” who exploited their children, contrasting with their own approaches to privacy and pride (15:35–16:30).

6. Social Media and Internet Bans

• Discussion of Australia’s ban on all under-16s using social media and their skepticism about effective enforcement (16:30–16:54, 17:34).
  • “I don’t know how they’ll do it either.” (16:40, Joanne)
• They veer into an anecdote about Australia’s surprising melatonin age restrictions and health myths (16:54–17:25).

7. Porn Bans and Internet Access

• Discussion about Pornhub’s drop in viewership after stricter age-verification, VPN necessities, and the broader impact of porn on youth (17:34–18:40).
  • “All porn, you have to have a VPN if you want to watch porn...You have to have a VPN.” (18:21, Vogue)
• Joanne challenges this claim live on the podcast, resulting in comic attempts to access adult content (22:03–23:20).
  • “Sorry, sorry. I am now on pornhub.com.” (22:22, Joanne)
• Both lament porn’s over-accessibility for young people and question its impact on sexual culture among youth (23:34–24:11).
  • “I've read around the sex culture of younger men, access to porn, and this not good. It's not.” (23:34, Joanne)

8. The Truth About Porn and Relationships

• Discussion of faked “cumshots” and porn as a false standard, likened to romcoms’ impact on relationship expectations (24:22–24:42).
  • “It’s fake news. I'm glad it's spot.” (24:42, Joanne)
• They offer frank takes on how porn warps expectations for real sex and relationships.

9. Dating App Culture and ‘Lights Off’ Dating

• Joanne admits to canceling a much-anticipated date, describing the work required just to keep up with modern dating—and her waning interest in it (25:32–30:38).
  • “If I know in my brain you’re not gonna do that, Joanne, you couldn't.” (26:06, Joanne)
• Both debate gender norms around moving on from relationships, with Joanne noting, “Men who have remarried while their wife isn’t fully cremated.” (31:13)
• Joanne argues that "dating apps are on the way out," advocating a return to meeting people in person (34:58). “Apparently Bumble is falling through the ground and people are going back to real life meetings in pubs.” (34:58, Joanne)

10. Friendship, Intimacy, and New Relationship Labels

• They mock celebrity-neologisms (“non demi curious, semi binary”), arguing not every bond needs a label—sometimes, a friendship is just a friendship (36:01–37:16).
  • “If your label takes seven minutes to get out of your mouth, forget about it.” (36:56, Joanne)
• Analysis of the Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo “demi-curious, semi-binary relationship” media storm, speculating if it's a PR stunt—and sharing a general skepticism of such over-complicated labels (36:01–38:09).

11. Celebrity PR and Press Fatigue

• Joanne shares her own weariness with press interviews and why celebrities may spin wild stories when bored with repetitive interviews (40:33–41:12).
• Discussion of Kate Beckinsale’s viral talk show moment as an antidote to dull PR rounds (41:04–41:14).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mum Guilt:

  • “People really do believe that I don't do anything. And also, what I'm seeing a lot of since I left the jungle is how I have. Basically, I'm the worst mother of all time because I left my children to go and do a TV show.” (04:44, Vogue)
  • “I was upset listening. I was almost like, just f***ing go home. Go back to Gatwick and go home. This is too stressful for all of us.” (07:40, Joanne)

• On the internet and porn restrictions:

  • “I'm watching it right now while you're talking.” (18:40, Joanne, humorously contesting Vogue’s claim)
  • “Bring back page three girls. There's an innocence to it.” (23:53, Joanne, tongue-in-cheek)

• On relationship and dating fatigue:

  • “My light is off there. I think that someone's removed the bulb. Like, it's not even that the light's off, it's like someone shut down the power.” (29:01, Joanne)
  • “If you were any sort of friend, you'd come over and you'd electrocute my labia and get me back on the scene…” (32:41, Joanne)

• On modern labels for relationships:

  • “Do you know what? And I really like those women. But I have to say, in the words of our great philosopher Shakespeare, yeah, fuck off, you're just mates. Stop trying to add all these weird labels to it.” (36:24, Joanne)
  • “If your label takes seven minutes to get out of your mouth, forget about it. No one cares.” (36:56, Joanne)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Launching a YouTube Channel: 00:23–04:14
• Mum Guilt & Judgement: 04:44–08:56
• Maternal Instinct Never Ends: 08:56–10:28
• Health Anxiety & Scans: 10:28–14:59
• Children & Social Media Laws: 14:59–16:30
• Porn Ban, VPNs & Internet Access: 16:30–24:42
• Dating Dilemmas & Gender Norms: 25:32–31:58
• Celebrity Relationship Labels: 36:01–38:09
• Celebrity Press & Interview Fatigue: 40:33–41:14

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Tone & Style

The episode is as candid and irreverent as ever. Vogue and Joanne don’t shy away from poking fun at themselves, each other, and the bizarre contradictions of modern life. Their conversation is full of warmth, empathy, and the kind of unfiltered honesty that keeps listeners returning for advice, laughs, and solidarity in the messier moments of adulthood.

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For more, visit www.mytherapistghostedme.com or send your questions to [e-mail]!

Transcript

[A]

This is a global player original podcast.

[B]

Welcome to my therapist, ghost and me. It's the usual people. Nothing's changed.

[A]

I'm starting YouTube at the grand old age of 40. And yes, I do have an OSMO that I take around with me and I started filming today. So I'm releasing my first YouTube on Sunday. And Joanne, whenever I see you in real life, I'm just gonna use you for your face and I'm gonna make you perform.

[B]

Well, I think this is a fantastic idea. As someone who is obviously I already know this information or should I act aghast?

[A]

This is get surprised how excited being.

[B]

Friends this is new information. The Flamingo. What's it called on the plane? The Fluenza. So but as I said to vogue in real time and I will say it again, I think this is such a good idea. I think like do you know, and I'm a big YouTube person, so I, I, I'd say I watch and we all know how it's all going. TV's dying. YouTube is on the rise. And I think genuinely, I think the key now is and I think most people are going that way who work in that area that are now treating YouTube like it is TV. Like we spoke about the ging who won.

[A]

Angry Ging.

[B]

Angry Ging. And he is a YouTube person and he has, he's one of the biggest votes of anyone in like years and years on like all YouTube is where it's at.

[A]

Well, this will blow your mind. He's actually a twitch. Is it Twitch Joe?

[C]

Yeah, Twitch, where people do like video game streaming and stuff.

[B]

Oh, got it.

[A]

It's a new world, Joanne. That's like, that's out of our grasp. Don't bother are. Although I would like to see you twitching, watching your weird shows and stuff that you watch. I think that you should start a twitch and I'll do the YouTube.

[B]

Well V, if you're going on YouTube, you're going to be one of my weird shows now. Oh my God, I'll fall asleep listening to you.

[C]

What's your handle? Tell people where to find you.

[A]

How do you. Oh, oh, you'll like my handle, batter.

[B]

Where will we find her? Yeah, no Purple Dragon.

[A]

Tell you what my handle is. My handle is. It's going to be called what does she even do?

[B]

Oh, very good, very good. That's really funny. But can I make a marketing suggestion as an ex publicist?

[A]

Yeah, cuz I haven't launched it yet so I can always change the name. But I just thought it, it made sense because I'm doing stuff.

[B]

But that is a joke and it's very funny and I think you probably might call it that, but I would say as an ex publicist, someone with a marketing background and some of these hotels. Did you know my history? You know my history at the start.

[C]

Never said that before. We had no idea. Really?

[A]

Put that on your insta bio, honestly, because I don't remember that sometimes no.

[B]

One knows that I was with my bare hands cleaning feces of hotel toilets.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Anyway. But I would say for, I would say for brand awareness, I would use your own name if you could.

[A]

I just think it's so boring and bit tacky.

[B]

But it's not your fault. Your name is tacky. That's Sandra's fault. It's all you have now.

[A]

I know, but I just kind of like it was fine when it was magazine. No, I'm not doing. No, I'm. Spenny and I were considering doing one together. I'm doing it alone.

[B]

Oh, you're doing it on your own? Oh, sorry. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[A]

So now we're in direct competition, Spenny and I together. And so he's like, oh, I don't think, I don't think you know what's involved in this. I'm like, you wait, babe, you wait. Now you've spurred me on to beat your subscribers.

[B]

I. Look, I think you're going to be a huge. I think this is going to work really well for you. I think it's going to be a big success, as is most things that you do. But I would, as your friend, confidant and an ex public assist, I would suggest you put your. You include your name. Oh, do you think there will be an issue because of the magazine?

[A]

No, I don't think that, but I just think that it's a bit boring just to say, oh, Vogue Williams. Like it will be a Vogue Williams will be there somewhere. But I think it has to have a title and the title, the reason I say.

[B]

I know what you mean. Yeah, fine. Yeah, I am.

[A]

I saw somebody comment that on some. I saw some video of myself today and someone commented, what does, what does she do? And I nearly wrote back and, and wrote the list and then I was like, you know what? Why would I bother?

[B]

Send them the list.

[A]

Why, why would I bother? I don't need to tell you what I do. And no, I don't just sell washing tablets.

[B]

Also, can I just say there are people out there, actors and who are just selling washing tablets and it is a Worthwhile and worthy job. Are you sure they weren't taking the piss out of you? Because I feel like it's kind of a gag now with you.

[A]

Oh no, no, no, no, no. People really do believe that I don't do anything. And also what I'm seeing a lot of since I left the jungle is how I have. Basically I'm the worst mother of all time because I left my children to go and do a TV show. Do you know who doesn't get it?

[B]

Boring men.

[A]

They don't get it. So boring men can go and do whatever they want. But if a woman wants to go and do something, or if a woman wants to work, just don't even dream about doing it without getting some level of abuse thrown at you. It's just. And why can't women do both? And if women choose not to do both, that's great. But if women choose to do both, then they should be allowed to do both.

[B]

I was only saying today I cannot tell if trad wives are moving us forward or setting us back. I look at their lives and I'm like, I'm, I'm wired to think this is offensive, but there's a part of me, it was like, would it nice to be just collecting chicken eggs all day and have a child in each tit, just fucking rocking around making jams.

[A]

There's another one though that I've seen. Is it called a submissive wife? Is that what it's called?

[B]

What they are? That's what they are really, isn't it?

[A]

They're like, there's a separate one. Now that I saw that, it's like, I get it. I want to be a sub wife because I want to be told what to do. Imagine, can you imagine me trying to be a. So I'd be like, excuse me.

[B]

Well no, don't tell me to do that. You'd need a lobotomy. But I do find, I do reach.

[C]

I've just googled that and it does return some X rated kinky.

[B]

I find I reach sometimes.

[A]

Well maybe I would like it.

[B]

Decision, decision fatigue I call it where I reach a stage in the day. I'm like, I can no longer make any other decisions cuz there's a lot of decisions to be made in your day to day and it's like work wise and stuff and personally but more so work wise about whatever it is. And I'm like, I've reached decision fatigue. I, I've like leave, come back to me in two days time. I cannot make any other decisions. And I'm saying, would I mind if a hot naked fireman stepped in point to kind of like submiss me? Probably not. You've spoken about this before. Do you know when you speak about like mother's guilt and stuff and I, I kind of stare at you cuz I don't really understand it. And I'm like, would you not be delighted to get a break and all that jazz? So I had a friend staying with me recently and her husband FaceTimed her and she took the call in the hallway and we were just sitting here eating food and drinking wine and having a nice time catching up. And I. So I could overhear the whole conversation. Cause it's FaceTime. And her little girl who is three, when I say screaming, crying, bawling, mama, mama, mama. And my friend was in the hallway trying to bargain with her. And she's like, one more sleep and then you go to school and then I'll be home. And then my friend came back into the kitchen crying. And I was like, oh my God. Even I was unsettled listening to the conversation. I was like, it's. It was the first time I've ever actually understood what that means. Because I, in my single dumbness and childlessness was like, ah, come on. Sure you're dying to get away. I was, I was upset listening. She's like, I'll get you kinder egg. I'll get your doll. Oh, come on, you're a big girl. Oh, come on. Like it was this, it was, it was upsetting. It was upsetting. I was upset. I was almost like, just fucking go home. Go back to Gatwick and go home. This is too stressful for all of us.

[A]

Well, you see, I, I kind of had pre planned for the mom guilt because obviously I was away for so long and I've never been away for that long because I couldn't speak to the kids either. So like I have planned, I'm go, I'm taking them away now and I'm with them. And they're like, when are you going away again? I'm like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just with you. And they're so. I know, I just feel, I felt so guilty. But then, because obviously when I left the jungle, you're contracted to stay. So I couldn't just leave. I had to stay to felt bad for you.

[B]

I felt bad for you.

[A]

Oh, that was. I did feel bad for being as well because we're still filming a show. There's like a coming out show that airs on Saturday. So, like, you get it that they're all still. Still working as well. And you can't just go home, be like, no, sorry, I'm done now because of it. You have to kind of stick to your contract. But mom guilt can be the absolute worst. But then you get, on the other hand, work guilt. So when you're not. When you're with the kids the whole time and you're not doing your job and you're just missing things, then you get work guilt. It's. It's just always some form of guilt.

[B]

I was actually. I was talking, so I've told you before. So Pat, my mother, who's like. She's incredibly motherly, and she's like, if mothering was an Olympic sport, Pat would certainly be. She'd be on a podium. Would she be first? I don't know, but she'd be certainly numbered. And again, the other day, Ringsy, and I was like, yo. And she's like, oh, my God, you. You haven't been online in hours. I was just so worried. And I was like, does that. Like, I'm 42 years of age, and my mom is sitting on WhatsApp, checking when I've last been online to make sure I'm okay. Now, I think there's other issues there. I travel a lot for work. I'm on my. You know, I'm on my own a lot, blah, blah, blah. So, like, you know, if I kind of fall and crack my neck in the shower, my. There's no one to. There's no housemaid or child or husband to find my dead body and contact Pat. So, like, she. I suppose she's kind of doing the minding for me, but I was like, does the worrying ever go? And she's like, it never, ever goes never.

[A]

I just.

[B]

Like, it's a tax of love.

[A]

I know, but I just. I worry about everything. And it's. That's when my. That's when my fear of death came, because I used to be kind of normal about death. And I was like, that's all. I just never. It never crossed my mind. And then I had kids and I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my mentality is like, if I. I can't leave them. Like, that's the worst. Like, I couldn't leave them to be on their own. And, like, obviously you can't control that. And that's, like, why I'm off getting MRIs and stuff like that, because. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God. Two things to say about that. And we. We Love chatting about death. I pot about death recently. And she was like, I just.

[A]

She's not. To old people. Jesus Christ, you are.

[B]

She's not old. She's my next old.

[A]

I don't talk to any. I don't talk to any of my parents about death. Jesus Christ.

[B]

Frankly, for the record, my brother is her next of Kim, which is slightly insulting, but whatever. But she said the saddest part about my death is I wouldn't know what you're up to. And I was like, oh, my God. Her only concern about her own mortality is that she wouldn't know what me and my brother are up to.

[A]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

I was like, pat, that's going in the eulogy. Sorry, now. I'm already writing it. I'm just preparing myself, so I'm not. I don't have a mental breakdown.

[A]

Would you like to see the gift I got you from Australia?

[B]

It's not a Tim, Tom. Is it? F. Come on.

[A]

I didn't get you a Tim, Tam. I didn't eat a Tim.

[B]

I really think that. I know Australia. It's just a Penguin bar. Come on, calm down.

[A]

It says wine time. Oh.

[B]

Like you. We're for. We're in our 40s now. Vogue Health and Wellness. We're getting smears, we're getting tit tests, we're getting bloods, we're getting. Have to get your smears. Get your smears in.

[A]

We got to get a smear. I haven't had one in a while. Get a smear.

[B]

I'll do it for you.

[A]

I don't like that word. Call it something else.

[B]

A fudging, a retraction. Yeah, like that. In bed the other night, obviously contemplating my own mortality. Existential crisis, all the rest. I said I should probably try and elongate my life rather than what I tend to do, which is shortness with bad behaviors. I contacted a private hospital in Ireland and I was like, I would like a full.

[A]

What would you call it, body scan.

[B]

Yeah, Open the panel, crack in, knock around, see what's going on. How long have I left to live? What's the.

[A]

Gotta do it.

[C]

This is really the thing to do at the moment.

[B]

100.

[A]

So have you heard of Fofo?

[B]

No. Is this. Is it a relative of a Labubu?

[A]

No, it is not a relative of a Labubu. Fear of finding out. So people who are thinking of getting health scans and all that kind of stuff, like, some people are just like, no, I'm too scared to find out, so I'd rather not do it. But you have to go and do it just to try and figure out if you're all right. That's why I went for that mri. And I think that, like, thankfully, everything was okay, but. But, like, even. Sorry, I know this sounds terrible, and I don't know if anyone's had it done. You know when you get your boobs checked and they put it in a little. So they put it in this thing and they squeeze it. How are they gonna squeeze mine? There's nothing there. Like, nothing will fit in. I can't do.

[B]

But that's the beauty of you'll never get breast cancer. A tumor wouldn't fit in there.

[A]

I don't know if that's how it works, but I just don't know how to. What's it called when you get your boobs checked that bad? What's it called?

[B]

Breast screening?

[C]

Mammogram.

[A]

Mammogram. The man has to tell us about it. Well, a mammogram. I'm worried that my title won't fit in because there is no tish.

[B]

Exactly. They were like, there's no room for infection here.

[A]

We'll just see it. If you ever grow, you know what it is?

[B]

They're like, we'll check your mouth because that could harvest many, many an infection, but your tits are grant. So I have the opposite of fofo. I have. I want. That's why I hack into, like, boyfriend's fans and stuff, because I want to know everything.

[A]

But.

[B]

So I contacted this private hospital in Dublin. I was like, send me in screen. Like, everything. Screen everything. And obviously, I'm not alone in wanting to do this, because they were like, we can book you in for March 2026 for the record. Time of recording is December 10, 2025. So I was like, I'll just throw a bit of money at the problem, see what. See what's going on under the hood. 20. March 2026. They were like, we'll get you in for a private screening.

[A]

But also, like, these things aren't cheap. And I think that this should be something that's made more available to more people, because I actually think it's really important to go and do all that stuff, bloods and everything.

[B]

That's why I was so surprised that going privately was like. The wait list was so intense. Could I not just hang around in the airport X ray machine a little longer and they can tell me if there's nothing going on? Like, why am I doing? What are they looking at there? Put your hands up at all. Is There. What's inside? What are we looking at? Tumors? Cirrhosis? What's happening? Verucas. Come on, give it to me. The clap. What's happening? Surely they can see you or. What are they looking at Verucas?

[A]

I don't know if Veruca still around. They are still around. Oh God. I'm wandering around swimming pools with no white socks on because I just thought Verucas were gone.

[B]

I know you're raw dogging it in.

[A]

Pools and I was all over Centre parks raw dogging it the whole time. I'm gonna get myself a pair of the socks.

[B]

No one to blame but yourself. Have you looked at the laws around the kids and all that jazz? Cuz apparently you're going to have to pay those kids if they're going to be on your YouTube channel, John. Those kids. Gigi's going to unionize. She's going to come to you when she's 18 and be like, you owe me 60 grand. Just be careful.

[A]

Those kids will be pretty happy with what I'm going to give them, but I'm just not going to let them know anything about us. They can't. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, right. They won't accept that. No. I'd say they might get to an age where they, they don't want that. But like I kind of don't. Well, I suppose I do, but I feel so proud of them when I see them though that I'm just like, God, you're so cute.

[B]

But there's, but there are laws around all that now. But also what I was going to say is I'm jumping around. But do you remember you're on that nut job in the States who was who?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. What was her name again? Remember she was. But she was this mommy influencers. But she was actually. Remember she made her kids sleep on the floor for like seven months.

[B]

She was absolutely like kind of abusing in plain sight her kids, but like making a fortune on these YouTube channels.

[A]

Telling people. Yes, really Frank. Telling people how to basically discipline. Yeah. Discipline your kids.

[B]

Very, very weird because now when you look back you're like, oh my God, like all the flags are there. You know, very strange behavior, very controlling behavior. And boss people were bat into this YouTube channel. Just thought she was a really good mom, but really like severe.

[A]

Yeah. But then.

[B]

And now she's in prison for child abuse.

[A]

She's. She's gone to prison for quite a long time as well. Did you know Australia has banned under 16s for. I heard from. Yeah, from all social media. I don't know how to do it.

[B]

I don't know how they'll do it either.

[A]

No, but they have, like, mad rules. Like, I went to get melatonin and it's only 2 milligram melatonin, because I was like, that will help a jet, like, and I went to get it. You have to be over 55 to get melatonin in Australia. Can't even get melatonin.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's because apparently it gives you dementia because it increases tooth decay, obviously. My God, I sound like you're. Well, when I have no idea if that's actually correct. Sorry.

[A]

No, you know what? You actually. No, no, it's not a medical podcast. But that is. That is that they actually do link dementia to tooths to get Joe. They do, because I know somebody who got all their teeth done because they were starting to get signs of dementia. I'm not joking. That is actually true.

[B]

We are. Yeah. It's kind of not fake news, but not also correct news. You know, we're like, drink your toilet up, guys. You'll be fine. Very, very.

[A]

Delve into it a little bit more. But, you know, because I forget things all the time, though, even now at this age. But I'm like, I think my brain is so full of other stuff that, like, that's probably why I forget.

[B]

But, you know the way you were saying that Australia's banned social media for under 16s, which how they will police that, I don't know. I'm obviously like, you know, is it just as something as simple as putting your date of birth in? Like, they could literally, you know, like, do you have to show proof of age? I don't know because I haven't read it in depth. But, you know, do you know the way these. Is it. Pornhub brought in an age restriction and apparently the viewings have dropped through the floor again, making up stats. I think they've lost like 50%. I don't know. Something massive has happened.

[A]

Yeah, but also with. With pornhub, people have to have a vpn.

[B]

V. I'm sorry, do not just find porn wherever you are. Like, what's your loyalty to pornhub if you invested in it?

[A]

Joann, all porn, you have to have a VPN if you want to watch porn. You can't just watch it. You're not allowed watch it in the UK anymore. There's certain countries that you're still allowed watch it, but you can't watch it in the uk. We've gone all Dubai on it. You can't watch it. You have to have a vpn.

[B]

I'm telling you factually incorrect, cuz I'm watching it right now while you're talking.

[A]

Go.

[B]

Okay, Google, I'm dual, I'm. I'm dual screening and I'm literally watching one of those lads rides, one of those jobs doesn't watch pornhub. What?

[A]

You don't watch pornhub? Go try and get pornhub right now.

[B]

I read Vogue.

[A]

What? Go try get pornhub on your phone right now.

[B]

Do you know the lads who ride the kind of dolls you know, they're the fake women.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know? Oh, yeah.

[A]

Is that what you are?

[B]

Oh, Joe. Shut up, Joe. Joe's looking at us now.

[A]

We know Joanne's porn history.

[B]

You know what I do? You know what? I was, I was listening to something today and you know, it was so interesting. So you know the way I'm a big fan of Esther Perel, who is this psychiatrist.

[A]

She was saying Ruby Wax is friends with her.

[B]

Is she?

[A]

Yes. Interesting.

[B]

Okay, bring her to the fold.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Esther was saying that women are turned on by being the turn on. So women are aroused by men being aroused by them specifically, like if a man comes into you with, and this is Esther's words, with like a huge hard on, he's like, I'm really horny, let's go. She's like, no, because I didn't give you that horn. Whereas if man.

[A]

Sorry, she scared the shit out of me. Sorry.

[B]

Whereas if a man comes in, he's like, oh, I'm not aroused, but I always see you and I'm massively aroused. She's like, let's fucking go. She's like, it's basically, it's the opposite of that kind of maternal kind of affection side of women. I thought it was really interesting, really interesting. Because I was like, yeah, I understand that. I do think that's true. Like it's hot for a woman if she is the reason a man is aroused. It's not hot to meet a man who's already erased and ride him. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. But I don't know.

[B]

More as I get it, maybe, maybe.

[A]

Maybe, maybe because I'm married, I don't really mind where he's gotten the, the hard on. I just would. Once it's there, I'm. I'm kind of happy about it. It's still going on. So it's kind of like when I.

[B]

Saw him scorny in the Daily Mail today, I said that Poor woman asleep tonight.

[A]

Oh, my God. Too bad.

[B]

I texted you and she didn't reply. And I was. Of course she didn't because she's being assaulted down in Battersea park and she just wants to relax.

[A]

He had. He had a Lebanese right before I met him. And there's this sauce that sometimes food or woman, this.

[B]

He had it really treating himself, isn't he?

[A]

There's a sauce we get and we only get the sauce and have it together, so. Because we know we won't be anywhere near each other that night. Well, Spenny didn't consider the sauce when he came to meet me after not seeing me for nearly a month. And this stench of his breath. I could smell him before I saw him. And then I was like, oh, my God. And we were in the taxi on the way home and I, like, had my head up against the window. I was like, spence, real bad. I don't know what you're gonna do about it, but I can't help you out here if this is gonna be the smell that I have to deal. When we got home, thankfully, after four times of brushing his teeth, it kind of settled enough and we did have an enjoyable evening together. But it wasn't as long as you would think it was because I was very jet, like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. No, I understand that.

[A]

Oh, my God, I've got 41 subscribers of YouTube.

[B]

Can I join Vogue? You're not gonna charge me, are you?

[A]

Oh, yeah, I will. Yeah, I'll charge you.

[B]

Give us a swipe up code to watch you sleep, will you? Why am I in my fan? What am I looking for?

[A]

Pornhub. You were gonna look Pornhub. We were. Yeah, go on. That's how little. I'm surprised at how little she uses it that she doesn't know about that yet because that's been for quite some time, as you know yourself, Joe.

[C]

There's no getting to that. Not without the technology. I mean, we were telling everyone to download VPNs to vote for you, but of course they already had them.

[B]

Sorry, sorry. I am now on pornhub.com.

[A]

Okay, go on, try and get into it and watch some porn.

[B]

Okay?

[C]

On mute, please.

[B]

Why is there royalty issues? Anyone can moan, Joe. They don't own moaning.

[C]

No, but that's explicit. We can't have that going out.

[B]

Also, I don't want to. It's probably embarrassing to read what's automatically coming up. It's a bit telling.

[A]

Go on, go on. Tell us what's already going on.

[B]

I won't actually, I'm a. I'm a lighter private life folk.

[A]

I wouldn't, to be honest with you. There's a lot I share, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't share my porn history. I'm sorry. That's just.

[B]

No, my porn history is Vogue's YouTube channel. I'm like, oh, what did she even do? Okay. I mean, warning. You will see nude photos of horny milfs. Yep, that's okay. Oh, there's a lot of ads here now. Oh, I've been kicked off the page.

[A]

Hold on. Yeah, there you go. Gone.

[B]

Where is it gone?

[A]

Gone. It's gone.

[B]

I know. No, no, no. Where is it gone?

[A]

You're not allowed to have it. And I actually think it's a very good thing because it means under 16s can't get to it. But then again, why do they not know about VPNs? But I suppose they don't have the money to pay for a vpn.

[B]

Well, I do. I'm sorry. And I do think I've. I've read around the sex culture of younger men, access to porn, and this not good. It's not. And the. All this. I talk about it in pena fall. All this, like, choke and. No, it's like.

[A]

It's.

[B]

You know, it's. It's not great. It's not great.

[A]

No, it's bring back page three girls.

[B]

There's an innocence to it. There's a wholesomeness to that.

[A]

It's not as dangerous to be fair. Like, I do think young kids watching porn is. Is really bad. And it was so easy to accessible, and now it's just not. Because you do have to have a vpn and hopefully they don't have any money to buy one because they cost money.

[C]

Also.

[A]

I have one, but I had one for the jungle. I don't. It's not.

[B]

I also think. I also think young men need to know that when they're watching these finishing scenes in porn that there was an hour of work put in before that that they're not seeing sometimes.

[A]

I. I was watching a video. I think it was gk. Barry is doing something on porn. And this guy was talking about it, and he said that obviously, because you can't get the cum shot all day. And so he has to, like. He squeezes something into his. So fake Venus and then does like a pretend cum shot. So I think it's like lube they put in and then there's like a pretend shot.

[B]

Exactly. It's kind of like us growing up on Romcoms if you think about it, and the happily ever after and then having no understanding of the happily ever after is actually the start of a whole lot of compromise and work that goes into a long term relationship. It's fake news. I'm glad it's spot.

[A]

I'm actually glad to hear that. You didn't even know it was bad. What are you up to?

[B]

Sure, I'm dead from the waist down. Dead from the waist down. Well, are you only gonna ask me this now?

[A]

Oh, well, I had a story ready to go up and I was like, I don't know if she'll be annoyed by that, so I won't put it off. But, girls on the Day of record, it is currently December 10th, and true to her word, Joanne McNally was going on a date on December 9th, which she had planned in October. Did it happen?

[B]

Well, Vogue, I'm delighted you finally asked me about this. As you know, I've had a date in the diary for six weeks.

[A]

Oh, please. Did it happen?

[B]

I had a very long day yesterday. I was filming for Angus Crockpot. I filmed with Trinny. I was very tired. Four or five.

[A]

No.

[B]

Do you ever get this? Stick, Stick with me, stick with me. Do you ever get this? So I, I have this. And I've learned to trust it as I get older. If I know in my brain you're not gonna do that, Joanne, you couldn't.

[A]

Have said this six weeks ago?

[B]

No. Oh, no, I can't do the date. No. The day of. I'm a monster. I'm an.

[A]

Oh, I'm the devil.

[B]

In my defense, we. I had no rapport with this man. I'm working my tits off at the moment. It's Christmas, we're all up to our tits. Everyone's busy. I'm doing 12 hour days. I was like, I am so tired. I'm lethargic. The idea that I'm gonna scrape. I looked, I had enough makeup on me to sink a small country. I'm gonna scrape this makeup off myself at 7 o', clock, get on a tube, go in and meet a total stranger to make small talk. I was like, do you want. No. So we're back to plan A, which is Dylan. I'm sorry. I tried.

[A]

Oh, my God, I tried, Joanne. I tried. You were so excited about it yesterday morning. What happened from when I spoke to you to when it like you. That poor man has hung around to have a date with you for six weeks and he don't come on the day off.

[B]

I know, I don't pornhub was no longer available easily to me. I probably would have gone, but I was so busy. I didn't realize that that was no longer in the system. Do you know what? Your man. I'm sure he's lovely. I'm sure he's saying, we know rapport. We weren't texting. It wasn't like we were flirting. There was nothing. It was literally like going to meet a stranger.

[A]

I don't care what he was like. Do you know how long we've been waiting for this? How dare you, Joe, let's go.

[C]

In terms of content, it was a payoff. We were waiting.

[B]

Sorry. Do you know when you're like. Do you know if. You know what if an idea gets in your head and you're like, oh, oh, the idea has planted itself. Oh, oh, this is gonna happen. I'm gonna cancel this date. You know, I'm gonna cancel this date.

[A]

And then what did he say when you canceled? Was he like.

[B]

To be fair, like, he was like, what? He's like, whatever. Like, he's like, yeah, we're all busy, blah, blah, blah, now, where he's. No stress. And he said, but he actually went, but don't do, like, don't. I don't mind to rescheduling, but don't do it again.

[A]

Do you know what?

[B]

And I thought, my first.

[A]

With my first boyfriend, I was so embarrassed to go on a date with him because I wasn't much of a dater that I canceled the date twice. And he told me when we got together that, like, if I had canceled the third time, he wouldn't have gone out with me. And I ended up going out with him for six and a half years, Joanne.

[B]

That's why he was lying through his tits. And he said that because he was trying to pretend that he had standards, but he didn't. He was just absolutely mad about you. But I also. I like, he's like, if you'd canceled on me on a 10th time, I.

[A]

Wouldn'T have come back.

[C]

Shut up.

[B]

You married or you m. No, no.

[A]

It was a different person. He was the only one I didn't marry.

[B]

That's.

[A]

So he shouldn't have bothered, really.

[B]

The lotto loser. But he's. He's saying that to you, like we all do, to kind of. You want to come across like you have some standards for yourself, But I think you could have canceled on that man nine times. But. But this guy.

[C]

But.

[B]

And I understand it, he's basically saying, all right, grand, but, like, I'm not up for getting around. Fine. But I have no, I have no relationship with this man. Like I've gone on dates with men. Whereas previously there's been texting, flirting, rapport, like voice notes, all that. I had nothing with this dude at all. I literally was going because I feel very much. And we've spoken about this before. Your lights on or your lights off? My light is off there. I think that someone's removed the bulb. Like it's not even that the lights off. It's like someone shut down the power. So I was like, all right, this man seems normal. Fuck it, I'll go meet him. And then when it came to the day and I look, I know it's bad. Look, I know it's bad for him to cancel on the day, but I will say as well, I've been cancelled with on the day. You get over it. I don't know. It's all transient online. No one knows each other. It doesn't matter.

[A]

If you weren't that interested in them, then fine. But I was just excited about this. I know, but you could have got to know him. It could have been nice. I know, but you know what? It is December. Why don't you reschedule and go out with them in January? Cuz no one's around in January. Yeah, yeah. Did that sound at all like she's going to go out in January? Yeah, your voice went right up. That's, that's, that's a lie.

[C]

I could do that.

[B]

I think I, I think. And like I. Do you know what I think? I think dating and the single women listening to now. Sorry. I think the single women listening to this will know it's like a job. Like I put a shift in on Hinge. I'm like, okay, I'll go in and put a shift in. I'll see in two hours. And I work from six to eight in a Sunday on Hinge. It's a. You have to put the time into it. And I'm really enjoying where I am with work at the moment. And there's loads of good happening. And I'm like, I don't care about meeting some randomr in Soho, but I.

[A]

Know someone who broke up with someone on Friday. On a Friday?

[B]

Oh, on our Friday. Not the Friday.

[A]

On our Friday. Someone who broke up with someone who they were seeing for quite a while on a Friday and by Sunday dating someone else. Like a date. Day two on Sunday. So literally went on to Hinge after the breakup. Saturday date, Sunday, she's in his house watching tv. Well, I think it's very intimate.

[B]

The key here is in his house. So it's a man.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Thank you. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

[A]

Well, do you date like a man? Evidently.

[B]

Do I. No. No men date. Or like, there's men who have remarried while their wife isn't fully cremated in the oven.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Her hair isn't even smoking yet. And he's walking down the aisle with the woman. Women are not that way inclined. Women can be on their own for long periods of time. We're much more emotionally resilient in that way. We've better tribal, we've better communities, all that. So I was listening to that story with intent until you. And then you were like, it's a man. I said, oh, yeah, that makes. That makes complete sense.

[A]

But maybe I date like a man, because I do go from relationship to relationship. I did that like 1, 2, 3, all consecutively. So maybe I date like a bit like a man.

[B]

No, because you're. In fact, when you're in them, you're incredibly invested as our man. But, like, no, no, you just. You're just. You're just. You're just a catch. Men are like, it. Let's get my. You know, and you're quite. You're quite suggestible.

[A]

You know what it. Let's get married.

[B]

And you're too. I've already got the dress. Let's keep reusing it. I hate to see waste. It makes sense.

[A]

I did have different dresses, though, to be fair. So I did not.

[B]

I'm just gonna chill out, lie in my couch over Christmas and wait for a delivery man, withhold a code until he comes in and rides me. Something like that. I have. I have plants. But I will not be going on dates again. It was. I just don't care. I don't know. I vogue. If you were any sort of friend, you'd come over and you'd electrocute my labia and get me back on the scene because I. I couldn't give a flying fandango at the moment.

[A]

I feel like you just need to. You need to. Maybe it's this summer when you decide to do it again. But then I look at people like Katy Perry and I'm like, look at her. She's gone out with, like a prime minister or something.

[B]

Because she is. She's Katie Perry. So like, popping up three floors, she's got, like, twirly lollipops, latex outfits.

[A]

But you're Joanne McNally. Why should you're. Excuse me, you're doing the three arena people are fine to be.

[C]

To get lollipops in later. Yeah.

[A]

And you're doing a matinee show.

[B]

You wait till I pop up through that floor. You wait and you're gonna fly spinning through the air.

[A]

My God, she might fly like a little witch going around the house on a broomstick.

[B]

You know, I watched an interview with Talisa recently. She did the Great Company podcast. I was watching clips and she was saying she was like. Because they're trying to label her with some sort of sexuality. There's some like, demisexual where you're like, oh, I just don't ride people I'm not attracted to. And everyone's like, oh, interesting. Like, that's a sexual orientation. It's like, I. I feel like that it's not a. It's not a sexual orientation. It's like, I won't. I've. No. I need to be invested in you in some way emotionally to give a. I.

[A]

Now, in fairness, I wouldn't. Like, I would be very much someone who would need. I like, I need to get to know somebody. Maybe it's. I don't know. I. It's not just because I'm afraid, it's just because actually what I like.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Is getting to know somebody, fancying their personality. I wanted to be friends with them before.

[B]

Yeah, that's what's hot. Like, I. That and look, I can't speak for all women. I can only speak for myself and Vogue, which I'm more than happy to do because I know you well enough to speak on your behalf. And you're like, me. There has to be some sort of emotional connection. I don't, I don't. I don't care about fucking getting ridden by some random. Like, I don't care. Like, it's not like I'm. I don't care. I just. I need to have some connection with someone and they make me laugh and I need to fancy them in some way.

[A]

Okay. I think that we just need to shelve it. I think that you're enjoying your life. You're going away for Christmas and stuff like that. You're gonna have a nice time and maybe we'll revisit in the summer.

[B]

I think dating apps are on the way out. I think apparently it's all coming full circle. Apparently Bumble is falling through the ground and people are going back to real life meetings in pubs. It's all going to come 180. Yeah, it's going to be. Go to the Devonshire I'm gonna ride the postman. Anyone who comes into contact with the house.

[A]

Okay, well, I'm. You want to write that? Do you want to write that in your delivery slip? You know, it's like, first floor, please call the bell.

[B]

Code will not be released.

[A]

Come in. Not hard.

[B]

Go on. Just pop the bra before you go, will you? Just anything, just a bit of mouth, just any bit of touch or feeling.

[A]

Have you heard about Cynthia Riva and Ariana Grande are in a non demi curious, semi binary relationship. And a demi curious means someone who is a little bit curious about trying something often sexual or romantic but not fully committed or. Sure. Semi binary means someone who, who feels partly connected but not fully. So I have no idea what this means.

[B]

Do you know what? Do you know what? And I really like those women. But I have to say, in the words of our great philosopher Shakespeare, yeah, fuck off, you're just mates. Stop trying to add all these weird labels to it. You're just mates. Vogue. I don't mean you holding hands announcing we are in a demi curious, lazy sloth plug. Semi, non sexual damage. Like, shut up. You're just mate.

[A]

It's a friendship. It's a friendship.

[B]

You're just mates.

[A]

And not everything has to be labeled. You don't have to label everything.

[B]

Just like if your label takes seven minutes to get out of your mouth, forget about it. No one cares.

[A]

Non demi curie, semi binary. I feel like we need something, Joanne. I mean it sounds kind of interesting. We probably need a label.

[B]

I'll give us a label. Mates.

[A]

Polls call us friends, we're mates.

[B]

But like have you noticed that? And this is what I, I, because I thought obviously did come across my radar and there's something I think I will say and like obviously anecdotal just going off what I see myself. I think this is driven by Cynthia more than Ariana. And I've noticed when now it was a stitch on tick tock. So obviously like I'm brainwashed. But like every time Ariana talks about their friendship, Cynthia will fix something on her body. She'll fix the necklace, she'll fix a ring. It's like it's. I'm not gonna control. Sounds terrible. Because I'm not saying that it's kind of coercive or anything like that. I think they're like really good friends but they're, they're obviously thick as thieves and there's a huge intimacy there and they've really bonded and making this amazing piece of art together. But there's also you know, like an ownership thing there. Or maybe they're doing it for press. Like, I, I don't, I don't, I don't.

[A]

It's not that I don't like people touching me. And I, like, I said this when I was in the jungle as well because everyone was very hoggy in there and I was like, I'm not a massive hugger. Like, I don't like go around hugging every. It's just not my thing. And I just. I don't know how I'd feel about having a friend like that who's always like touching me.

[B]

I don't think I've ever touched. I don't think I've ever touched you, have I?

[A]

I once had. I once had someone sit in my lap before and I was like, oh my God, this is awesome.

[B]

It wasn't me. I wouldn't last a second there.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

But last a second. Oh God. Yeah. I think, I think that. I feel like that's led by Cynthia. I could be wrong. That's my personal opinion. I think Cynthia's more kind of witchy.

[A]

Woo woo.

[B]

Bit away with the fairies, like fantastic, incredibly talented and all that jazz. And I think Ariana is.

[A]

Where's her mom? Stop being like that.

[B]

On the receiving end of Cynthia's intense energy is what I would say. But I don't know.

[A]

I went home to Sandra Wilson and I said, mom, I just want you to know that Joanne and I are now on and on Demi curious semi binary relationship. My mom would be like, pardon me, what?

[B]

And then she's going back to Resara fits in the hallway. She has no time for that.

[C]

Mom.

[A]

She shop anywhere else like God and get Massimo duty.

[B]

I think there's been something highly entertaining about the Wicked press tour. Ish. They. They're. They're.

[A]

I still haven't seen it because you told me it was 2 hours 40 minutes long. I said, there's no way I'll get through that. So I still haven't even.

[B]

Well, I actually told you it was an hour and 30 and then misunderstood and then Joe fact checked it and turned it was nine hours long. But I bought a couple of cans of gin. Gin and tin gin. A couple of Ginny a Ginny Ginnies in. But yeah, I think at this point they are. I think. I think Cynthia and Ariana might be trolling us.

[A]

I mean it does get a lot of press for. For Wicked now in fairness, because it just goes absolutely everywhere if you have.

[B]

To use it thesaurus for every single word in a Nine word description of your relationship.

[A]

Off. Okay, here's one thing that I will say, though. Imagine they're doing the press days all day long and there's just people in and out and in and out and asking the same questions the entire time. Which, by the way, I blame their PR because you're. When I do things like that, you're like, given certain set of questions that you can ask. It's like, why is that so boring for me? And it's for them, but like, maybe they get so bored that they just come out with this random stuff.

[B]

Do you know what? Vogue? You've hit the nail on the head. So I'm doing a lot of press at the moment. I'm selling that ninth Apollo. I'm doing the three arena of additional dates. And like the, the. These shows, you know, they're going to need some work to push because I've obviously been on the road for a year already. So we're, you know, I'm. I'm doing the. I'm doing the. Doing the scene.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I am already bored of my own story. At one point, at some point, someone's gonna go, and you're adopted. I'm gonna go, no, not actually made it up.

[A]

Pogues. My mom.

[B]

This is why Kate Beckinsale owned the Jimmy Fallon show by talking about her daughter's boyfriend laying eggs.

[A]

What?

[B]

You need to see this.

[A]

It was you to tell me if anything important had happened in the world. And you didn't tell me that. You started harping on about the budget. And I said, no, John. I mean, like real problems. What the.

[B]

It's. It's a master class. It's a masterclass.

[A]

Okay, everyone, thank you so much for listening. We will be back with the bonus on a Wednesday. This has been a global player original production.