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Hello and welcome to My Victorian Nightmare. I'm your host Genevieve Manion, and I'm here to talk about mysterious deaths, morbid fascinations, disturbing stories, and otherwise spooky events from the Victorian era. Because to me, there's just something especially intriguing, creepy, and oddly comforting about horror and mayhem from the 19th century. So listener discretion is advised. Hello friends, and welcome to this, my 42nd episode. I hope that you had a wonderful week. You will be pleased to know that I was not murdered by a poltergeist. Since our last show, this episode is not being broadcast to you from the great beyond. I managed to make my way through the week unscathed. Just in case you have no idea what I'm talking about. On last week's episode, I mentioned how my television was simply turning itself on at very frightening times. But it has not happened ever since that day. So either the ghosts got bored or, as some listeners suggested, it may have been like a rogue remote signal from another apartment. I may never know. I'm just happy to still be among the living undead as I may be. Okay, a little haunted housekeeping, guys. I reached 5,000 ratings on Spotify this week. I am still so, so grateful for those and for those of you who have rated it, please continue to rate the show. Spotify has actually stopped pushing my show like it used to. I think it's because the ratings slowed down. So I could really use as much juice as you guys can offer with those ratings to keep the show going. And if you want to hear the show ad free and support the show, you can join my Patreon. I am so grateful for every one of my Patreon members. Thank you. You can find the link@myvictorianightmare.com oh, and I won't go too deeply into it, but apart from the leaks and the threats of poltergeists, it's been a pretty tough couple of weeks. Like all of us, there's a lot going on, and some of it's really tough. So I decided to do what I always do when things get dark, I get darker. I'm delighted to announce that I am bringing back my other podcast, Dark Poetry. I've been finding so much peace in these eerie, dark, romantic treasures from the 19th century. I've been including some of my favorite poems on this podcast, but I really felt it could be very healing to bring back that show. And I was right. If you're looking for another podcast to creep you out and fall asleep to, that's the one. You can find Dark Poetry wherever you find your spooky podcasts. Man, I had the most wonderful dream last night. I dreamt that I went camping with Kurt Cobain, and he was so happy. And I asked him, I said, didn't you die in 1994? And he said, no. He said he faked his own death. Like belle gunness. Episode 40 must have still been clanking around in my mind. And I asked him why, and he said he just wanted to be happy. He wanted to play music just for him and live in peace. And he played guitar by the fire with his those bright blue eyes. They say you can't see color in dreams, but his eyes were so blue. And just before I wake up, he said, genevieve, don't forget life is for living. And I woke up and cried. I love that my brain took the horrifying story of Belle Gunness and turned it into a revisionist history where sadness didn't take Kurt Cobain. I think I'm gonna go have another quick cry about it. Brb. Okay, Today for you, dear listener, I will be discussing a topic that I've said numerous times that I would never discuss on the show. I will be discussing the Winchester Mystery House. Now, I've said that I didn't want to talk about it because just about everything you've heard about House, if you've heard anything at all, is probably untrue. So I didn't think that I could pull enough tasty, spooky snacks out of it to make a yummy enough episode. But I took some time to dig. And while looking for evidence of spooky stuff, I met a really lovely lady instead, who I would like to introduce you to the real Sarah Winchester. I'm going to thoroughly debunk for you all of the falsehoods, the embellishments, and downright lies about this very generous, very kind woman and her weird and wonderful house, and I'll give you some great trivia night factoids in the process. But before we get to the Winchester Mystery House, it's time for another installment of my fairly new segment With Their Own Eyes where I share with you Spine Tingly Victorian Ghost Encounters and you'll be pleased to know that I was actually able to find out who today's ghost was and how she came to be a ghost. And I'm making this one a two parter because she was seen and experienced numerous times by numerous unsuspecting and petrified Victorians. I'll read the first few encounters today and save the other ones for next week's episode. This article is called the Frenzied Lover's Murder in Boston, sequel to the Hobbes Ghostly Manifestations and Interesting Revelations, and it reads, about a year ago the house occupied by the Hobbs family at the time of the murder was leased by a Mr. Gross, and the dwelling has been used as a boarding house until quite recently. About two months after this time, one of the boarders returned home at a late hour and retired, just as the iron tongue of Midnight hath told 12 and he immediately retired to his chamber in the Upper Story. He went to bed, but had scarcely settled himself comfortably when the door, which he had taken the precaution to lock, quietly opened, and an unwelcome and unbidden visitor appeared and glided toward the bed. He recognized in his visitor the figure of Mrs. Hobbs, who he had frequently seen prior to her death, and the apparition, of course, had startling effect upon him, as each individual hair did perhaps stand on end like quills upon the fretful porcupine. The ghostly figure flitted about the room for a short time, and, without making any communication or other manifestation, as silently departed as it had entered. Upon reaching the dining room on the following morning, the boarder related his midnight experience and was laughed at for his pains, and quizzed considerably on his story. The matter was soon forgotten, but after a while the ghostly revelations were revived by a lady who occupied the back parlor on the first floor. This lady reported to the family that she was troubled by a nocturnal visit from a strange lady, for whose appearance she could not account. Twice she was visited by this person, and she described the figure so accurately that there was no room for doubt as to the description being that of Mrs. Hobbs. This was considered very singular, as the boarder had never seen the deceased lady. On another occasion, during a temporary absence of Mrs. Grose from the city, Mr. Grose retired to bed one night and after locking the parlor door, turned in. He had assumed a recumbent posture when the door which he had just locked, opened quietly, as if by invisible means. He jumped up from the bed immediately and ran to the door and closed it again. He tried the key and found the door locked as tightly as when he first left it to retire. The phenomenon he reported to his spouse and as the parties were non believers in spiritualism, they considered it very singular, but could not account for it. End quote. As mentioned, Mrs. Hobbs will return next week with even more spooky encounters. Okay. Firstly, this woman's name was Katie A. Hobbs. This article, including many about her murder, didn't name her at all. They identified her as only by her husband's name, Mrs. Alva Hobbs, a common issue in this time. This man, who also killed her, was also not her lover, as the article title suggests, calling him a frenzied lover. But you know what? I'm starting to think that in this time the idea of stalker or infatuated creep wasn't quite fully formed. That if someone was obsessed with someone else, even if the person was not at all open to their affections, they may still have been regarded as a lover of this person. Person like in that story I read about the opera singer's quote unquote lover who was nothing but a stalker in episode 39. Could be a semantic thing. Anyway, here's what happened to poor Katie Hobbs. She and her husband lived in this very house in 1869. And one night, while Katie and her husband, as well as two other house guests were enjoying a quiet evening in their parlor, another house guest named Thomas White came bounding up the stairs. Ms. Hobbs noticed that he was holding a gun as he was approaching the parlor, and she ran up to slam the door on him. He shot through the door and killed her. This man apparently knew the Hobbs family from when he was a boy and by some accounts had a strange and violent infatuation with Mrs. Hobbs and often lived with them. It's a little unclear exactly why they continued to allow him to live with them, considering he had already tried to kill her in 1861 with a butcher's knife. Her husband luckily wrestled it out of his hands. He was actually sent to a lunatic asylum after this for several years. He was described in a few articles as being a monomaniac. This is a 19th century term for someone who was like a singular obsession and is partially in insane. He was a Civil War veteran and when he returned from the war he developed a habit of randomly brandishing his gun and even shooting at walls and floors. He also spoke very loudly to himself, so loudly and aggressively that they often would send their poor servant girl to tell him to keep it down in his room. The servant girl said luckily he never threatened her life because of this, only Mrs. Hobbs, but he was still terrifying. Again, very confusing why they continued to allow him to live there. There is one indication in one of the articles that I read that suggested Mrs. Hobbs felt sorry for this young man again. She knew him from when he was a little boy and he doesn't seem to have been able to have gotten it together in life. So I think she just took pity on him and housed him. Katie died instantly when she was shot and Mr. White was found guilty of her murder not too long after the event. I have to tell you, my life has gotten a whole lot easier and a lot tastier this past week with Factor's two Minute Gourmet Meal kits. I usually spend my Sunday nights meal prepping, spending a lot of time in the kitchen when I would much rather be on my couch watching something spooky. I'm a pretty good cook, but by the end of the week what I've prepped is all old and I'm already sick of everything. So I've really enjoyed not doing that and instead having all of my dinners already prepared so I can just eat them while watching something horrifying. I like that you can choose the meals they're not just like sprung on you. With 45 weekly menu options, you can choose from calorie smart protein plus keto and incredible smoothies. You can order breakfasts on the go, lunches, snacks and desserts, apart from from the very tasty dinners this week I had beef ragu with herbed ricotta, marinated meatballs, Southwestern turkey, white chili, jalapeno, sweet corn, polenta chicken, and of course I treated myself to a garlic butter shrimp with creamed kale. They were all filling and I have to be honest, I was a little afraid popping them in the microwave would make the chicken like cardboard, but it was shockingly delicious and perfectly juicy. Get started at Factor Meat Victorian 50 off and use code Victorian 50 off to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. That's Victorian 50 off at FactorMeals.com Victorian 50 off for 50% off plus free shipping okay, to the Winchester Mystery House we go as I said I very much resisted this topic because the lore surrounding the house sounds so much spookier than the facts. And although I make mistakes sometimes, I do try to be as factual as I can with my subjects. I don't just want to give you jump scares. I want to give you facts that you can share with your family members at Christmas to make them very uncomfortable that are well researched with quality sources. And I understand why people want to hear about the house. What they've been told is all the hooks, spooky seances, mazes to confuse ghosts, an heiress to one of the bloodiest imaginable fortunes wracked with guilt, feverishly adding more and more additions to her crazy home full of dead end doors and windows to nowhere, etc. Like, I love all of that. Tell me more. Ugh. But spooky bubbles are my very least favorite bubbles to burst. But none of this is true. However, I realized it might be interesting to separate the facts from the fiction about this film. Fascinating place and its creator, Sarah, otherwise known as Sally Winchester. So let's begin with the lore and then we'll dig a little deeper into the facts. The lore of this mansion centers around a belief that Sarah Winchester, the heir to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, built the house to create a maze for the vengeful spirits of those killed by her deceased husband's rifles. According to legend, she she was a devout spiritualist and at a seance one evening a medium told her that if she didn't stop building, she would die. There's also a part of the legend that this medium told her that she needed to also make this home increasingly complicated maze like to prevent all of the ghosts that lived inside from harming her because that way they'd get lost. And indeed, the home is labyrinth like with odd architectural features. Features including windows with views of walls or roofs. Some of the doors and staircases lead to nowhere. It was believed that she was essentially a reclusive madwoman, tormented by guilt and forever running for her very life from ever increasing amounts of ghosts that came to find her in her home and make her pay somehow. So in a nutshell, that's the lore. And there is even a terrible movie based on all of this that actually has based on true events in the opening titles called Winchester. This one made me so sad. I really wanted to like it, even though I knew it wasn't actually based on true events. Not even the vibes could save it. It looks really cool, but it wasn't enough. Nor Dame Helen Mirren. Not even she could save this turkey of a movie, so don't bother. But if you find this concept of a spooky labyrinth mansion full of ghosts that's haunted by the lady of the house who wants to suck even more ghosts inside by murdering people who enter, you should absolutely seek out my very favorite Stephen King series, Rose Red. I think you can find it on YouTube. It's loosely based on this lore, and I believe it's the only series that Stephen King wrote only for TV that wasn't based on any books or short stories of his. At least this was true at the time when it was made in the 90s. It may still be. He also has a great cameo as a pizza delivery guy that gets a door slammed in his face. It just makes me giggle. Treat yourself. It's simply wonderful. So if all of this is only lore, what's the truth? And how did this become the lore anyway? And most importantly, what are my sources here? Among a few others that are listed in the in the show notes, I found a skeptical inquirer.org article by Adrienne Hill to be the most thoroughly researched. Ms. Hill really digs deep and she shows her notes. She also personally updated the Wikipedia article that was tragically full of falsehoods, cited all of her sources, and a staff member of the house, which still does ghost tours and such, tried to replace the her facts with unfounded spooky ooky falsehoods, and Wikipedia found their updates to be untrustworthy. So they maintained Ms. Hill's updates based on her evidence and didn't accept theirs. Why would an employee of the house do this? Although the house is listed on the National Registry of Historic Places, leading you to believe that it's a not for profit national landmark, it isn't. It's a privately owned, for profit enterprise still owned by the descendants of the family members who bought the house after Ms. Winchester died. The business model of the home's tours are supernatural, spooky oogie, and the more folks find out about the reality, the less intriguing the home is. So employees of the house have an incentive to keep the lies going, which is really lame if you ask me. The home belonged to a real woman with real talents whose life included real tragedies, who was a beloved employer to many people, and the lies told about her should be corrected by credible sources. So Ms. Adrienne Hill's research is my main reference for today. Let's begin with the life of the creator of the house, Ms. Sarah Winchester, who was actually known as Sally Winchester to all of her friends and family. When she was born, she was named Sarah Lockwood Pardee. But very soon after her birth, her very beloved paternal grandmother, named Sally, passed away. And so the family decided to call her by her name, Sally, instead of Sarah. Ms. Winchester also referred to herself as Sally, Signing her correspondence with that name. So I'll refer to her as such going forward. She was born in 1839, the fifth daughter to her parents, Leonard and Sarah Pardee, in New Haven, Connecticut. Three of her siblings would die of cholera when she was very young. Her family was well to do and very progressive. They were supporters of abolition, women's suffrage, and animal rights. She continued to support animal rights throughout her life. I read an anecdote where she essentially chased a boy off her property who asked her permission to hunt robins around her home. She married the son of the founder of the Winchester repeating arms company, William Wirt Winchester, during the Civil War in 1862, they remained in Connecticut. Four years later, she would give birth to a daughter named Annie, after William's sister, who died in childbirth, who sadly also died only a month later of marasmus. This is a form of severe malnutrition. I did some digging into this. It was unclear how a baby with surely the best medical care could die of this condition. But it can be caused by more than just malnutrition. It could be caused by meningitis, Lactose intolerance, malaria, Heart diseases, and pneumonia. So perhaps the baby baby had any one of these conditions. The death of their child was so devastating that both Sally and her husband retreated from society altogether, With Sally remaining entirely secluded for almost a year. But during this time, she started intensely studying architecture and design. It had always been a hobby of hers, so she took this time to really focus on learning more. In 1880, Ms. Winchester lost three very close family members. Her mother, her father in law, and William, her husband, who all died from tuberculosis in 1882. Tuberculosis killed one in seven people in the United States and in Europe, which is just unfathomable. Sally's health was also deteriorating, not from tuberculosis, but due to rheumatoid arthritis. She must have been living in pain every single minute of her day. In Sally's time, and still today, no amount of money could buy you freedom from pain or from grief.