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- [00:00]
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- [00:19]
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- [00:51]
Genevieve Mannion
Hello and welcome to My Victorian Nightmare. I'm your host, Genevieve Mannion, and I'm here to talk about mysterious deaths, morbid.
- [01:01]
Brian McLeod
Fascinations, disturbing stories, and otherwise spooky events from the Victorian era.
- [01:08]
Genevieve Mannion
Because to me, there's just something especially.
- [01:11]
Brian McLeod
Intriguing, creepy, and oddly comforting about horror.
- [01:15]
Genevieve Mannion
And mayhem from the 19th century. So listener discretion is advised. Hello friends, and welcome to this, my 46th episode, which is an extra special episode. When you leave me comments, you often say how much you love when I take you with me to these terrible places that we discuss. And I also love taking you with me, but it just takes a lot.
- [01:46]
Brian McLeod
Of time to create those creepy little vignettes.
- [01:49]
Genevieve Mannion
So I can't take you on trips with me all the time. I just can't help spending too many.
- [01:54]
Brian McLeod
Hours obsessively looking for, like, just the.
- [01:56]
Genevieve Mannion
Right sound effects for old cemetery gates and axe murders. And it takes, like I said, sadly, more effort than I sometimes have to muster. But today I have joined forces with Brian and McLeod from the Amazing podcast Sightings. Hello, boys.
- [02:15]
Bryan
Hello.
- [02:15]
McLeod
Hello, Genevieve.
- [02:18]
Genevieve Mannion
Tell everybody about your show.
- [02:20]
Brian McLeod
Well, we're Sightings, as you said. Bryan and I focus on supernatural events from around the world throughout history, though we've yet to go as far back in history as you typically do. So that's one reason we're really excited to be here visiting with you. You know, it could be anything from aliens to ghosts to Bigfoot. We start you off by putting you right in the driver's seat with a first person account narrated by me, sort of dramatized story version to really put you in the mindset of the story and what we find exciting about the and then Brian and I will talk it out afterwards, you know, and that's actually something that's a little bit similar to your show where we discuss the facts, the history behind the story, how we feel about those facts, and we just have a lot of fun and.
- [03:05]
McLeod
We'Re just so excited to be here, Genevieve. And thank you for having us. And we're so excited to bring our unique style to my Victorian Nightmare for this episode.
- [03:13]
Brian McLeod
I know. This is just so cool. This is so exciting. We will be guiding you through the most spine chilling 19th century haunted house, the Willington Mill House today. Sightings ability to take you there on their show. It's so inspiring. It is so fun. I love how they so carefully weave creepy atmospheres. I have learned a thing or two from them. So be sure to check out sightings after you listen to this episode. But first we are all going on a little trip together and then we will discuss the history of this spookiest, ookiest Willington Milhouse.
- [03:53]
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- [04:01]
Bryan
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- [04:05]
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- [04:06]
Brian McLeod
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- [04:06]
Bryan
I have tacos for two.
- [04:08]
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Oh, thanks. We'll be right down. And more memories.
- [04:11]
Bryan
Babe.
- [04:12]
Brian McLeod
Come down.
- [04:12]
Bryan
I have a surprise.
- [04:14]
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- [04:24]
Genevieve Mannion
Okay, is it working? Lights are flashing. Tape is rolling. Hello friends. This is Genevieve Manion, hostess of my Victorian Nightmare, coming to you. Pre recorded on my little brother's walkman that I stole from him in 1987. Magnificently, it still works. And so I thought we'd try something a little different. An experiment. In fact, some paranormal investigators swear that their digital recorders collect the clear, cleanest EVP recordings. But I'm of the school that analog recorders may not be as clean, but can catch frequencies that ones and zeros cannot. And I figured perhaps the very best place to test this theory would be the Willington Mill House in the northeast of England, outside of which I am currently standing. Which happens to have been the site of some of the most terrifying and unexplained 19th century hauntings of all. It's just about mid midnight and I don't think anyone has lived here for at least 100 years. So I brought my flashlight and a flask of whiskey, which is now empty. So I have just enough liquid courage to thrust myself into this window that may or may not have been broken before I started recording. Okay, let's stir things up a bit and see if we can't make some disembodied friends. Right this way. The house was built in the early 19th century. Built in a simple square style with three floors, typical of Quaker style homes at the time. The home belonged to the unthanks family until 1831, then passed on to the Proctor family. But before the home was even built, the land had a bad reputation. Townsfolk believed a witch lived in the area in the 17th or 18th century who was said to be executed for witchcraft and cursed the land. It was also believed by some that during the building of the mill house, a murder took place on the site and the body was buried under the cell cellar, which may or may not exist. Some folks believe there's a cellar in this place and some say there isn't. So luckily for us, that whiskey has also given me just enough courage to open maybe one or two of these creepy doors that may lead us to a cellar, if it exists. Or a pile of dead bodies. Because that's surely what is to be expected in a place like this. Alright, let's find out. But first, spirits. If there are any spirits here, tell me what is creepy door. Now, I can't hear anything because the recording has to be done for me to hear anything. But if you run it back, turn it up and see if you can make anything out. Maybe I just got a response. I really hope they didn't say it's a murder clown. Even though that would be just as likely as a pile of dead bodies in a place like this. It looks like it's just a mannequin. An old timey mannequin. I should have seen that coming. And a book on the floor. Let's take a look. It's handwritten. It says particulars relating to some unaccountable noises heard in the house of J and E. Proctor Willington Mill, which began about three months prior to the present time, this 28th day of January, 1835, and for which no adequate natural cause has hitherto been discovered. Oh my God. Guys, this is a journal of the guy who lived here. Remember I said that this house belonged to the Proctor family? Oh no, Guys. It begins with the worst possible sentence anyone could read in a situation where she was sitting on the floor of a boarded up haunted house from the 19th century. It says it begins with footsteps in an empty room.
- [08:29]
Bryan
Footsteps that would soon turn our quiet household into something I can hardly comprehend. I'm recording these particulars on this 28th day of January, 1835. Not because I wish to, but Because I fear I must, for what began as isolated incidents within my home have quickly become disturbed. Though that word feels insufficient to describe what we've experienced, I must note that our first years in this mill house were entirely unremarkable. Ill prospered, our children were born healthy, and we had every reason to believe ourselves blessed. But something changed in these recent months, beginning six weeks ago, when our nursemaid appeared before us in a state of dread and alarm. She told Elizabeth she had been hearing noises in the room overhead, occurring more particularly when left alone to watch our eldest child. In the nursery. She declared she distinctly heard a dull, heavy tread on the boarded floor, commonly pacing backwards and forwards, giving the room such a shake as to cause the window of the nursery to rattle violently in its frame. The girl said that though she did not heed it at first, she was now persuaded it was supernatural and it quite overset her. But on searching the rooms above, I found nothing to cause such results and credited little to her story. Before many days had elapsed, however, every member of the family had witnessed precisely what the girl described. On the 25th, being kept at home by indisposition, my wife was in the nursery about 11 o' clock in the forenoon and heard on the floor above a step as of a man with a strong shoe or boot. The same day, when we were at dinner, the maid heard the same heavy tread for about five minutes. We have taken to calling this room the disturbed one, and it must be noted that the space has been examined immediately after each occurrence of the noise, and in every case nothing has been elicited. Further, it seems impossible there can be any trick in the case. The room is inaccessible from the roof, and the chimney was closed by a fire board which was so covered over with soot as to prove that not a pebble nor a mouse had passed. The room is devoid of furniture, and for most of our tenure the door itself was nailed shut. But here's what troubles me most. That room. When exactly did I open that sealed door? I've no clear memory of unsealing it. Yet it stands open now. Have I, in my ignorance, released something that was meant to remain locked away forever? I pray not. But as I write these words, I can hear them again. Those steady, purposeful footsteps pacing back and forth. And now, in an entirely different empty room above, something is walking in my.
- [11:38]
Genevieve Mannion
House, and I fear the disturbances have only just begun. Okay, forget cellar hunting. We are going up those stairs to visit the disturbed room. I wonder if we'll be able to tell which one is the most disturbed? There's only two rooms here. Let me check this one. All right, I'm just flashing my flashlight in. Could be where the devil lives for sure, but let's check this one. It's stuck. Wait, it's. It's not stuck. It's freaking nailed shut. There are old rusty nails in the door frame, so I can't open it. And I'm sorry, but I am not busting into a nailed up door in a haunted house. Especially one that was at some point already sealed shut and then opened, according to Mr. Proctor. I gotta be honest, I don't feel super awesome standing outside this door. Spirits, who or what is behind this door?
- [12:39]
Unknown Voice
I'm behind you.
- [12:41]
Genevieve Mannion
Okay, I need to get away quickly from this room and go back downstairs as far away from that door as my little legs can go. Let's crack open this book again and see if maybe it explains why that door was nailed shut. Again, it says, incidents have clearly spread beyond the disturbed room and my family.
- [13:04]
Bryan
Grows more fearful by the day. For two months now, there have rarely been 24 hours without indications by noises of the presence of a ghostly visitant. And what began as isolated footsteps has now become something far more unsettling. On the 13th of the last month, early in the evening, two of the children in the house, one aged about eight, the other under two years, both saw, unknown to each other, an object which could not be real and which went into the room where an apparition was afterwards seen. When I questioned them separately, their descriptions matched in every particular, though neither had spoken to the other of what they witnessed. A few days later, a respectable neighbor came to me in some distress. She had seen a transparent white female figure in a window in the second story of our house. I thought perhaps it was Elizabeth or one of the servants. But when I inquired, all in our household were accounted for elsewhere at that time. Still, I held hope that a natural solution would be obtained on further investigation. I am a man of reason, after all, not given to flights of fancy. But then I saw it myself. I was returning from the mill late one evening when I observed a figure in our second story window. Very luminous and likewise transparent, with the appearance of a priest in a white surplice. It passed backwards and forwards and then stood still in the window for several minutes. I rushed inside and up the stairs to that very room, my heart pounding. But when I entered, I found nothing, save for my youngest child asleep in his crib. And as I leaned over the child, I had a tap on the cradle Leg as with a piece of steel. And distinctly felt the vibration of the wood in my hand from the blow. The crack felt deliberate and purposeful, malevolent even. The next day, I sought counsel from my cousin Joseph Unthank, who had lived in this house for 25 years before we took residence. He told me that he and his family understood that the house, and that room in particular in which the noises now occurred, was said to be haunted before they entered it in 1806. But nothing that they knew of had been heard during their occupancy of 25 years. 25 years of peace. And now this. I immediately went to the third floor and nailed that door shut once more, sealing it as it had been when we first arrived. But I fear the gesture may be far too late.
- [15:40]
Genevieve Mannion
And I'm terrified that we have awakened something that should have remained forever at rest. Well, this is all very upsetting. I have to say. I'm playing it pretty cool here. But it really felt like something was right behind me up there. I really need this guy to explain why the door was nailed shut again. Maybe if I skip ahead a bit. Wait. Do you hear that? I think I. I think I hear footsteps upstairs. There was nobody up there. I think.
- [16:19]
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- [16:48]
Genevieve Mannion
Okay. Sorry. I dropped the Walkman. I hope it's working. I went back upstairs, and the devil's bedroom is completely empty. There's only two rooms up there, and the other is nailed shut. So, yeah, I am going to find out what happened here. All right. This page says Today is the 24th.
- [17:09]
Bryan
Day of June, 1835. And I write to report efforts to research the source of these disturbances, hoping that knowledge might provide some means of relief. Through careful inquiry, I discovered that an infirm old woman, the mother in law of R. Oxum, the builder of these premises, lived and died in this house. And after her death, the haunting was attributed to her restless spirit. If this be true, I reasoned, then perhaps we were dealing with nothing more than the ghost of an elderly woman. Surely not something capable of great harm. But how wrong I was to find comfort in such thinking. The manifestations have grown far more aggressive, and now invade the very sanctuary of our bedchamber. No more than one week passed soon after retiring to bed, but before going to sleep, my wife and I both heard 10 or 12 obtuse, deadened beats as of a mallet on a block of wood. The sound came from either directly next to the bed or beneath the mattress itself, and felt so close, so deliberate, that we both started upright in terror. But worse was yet to come. About the 18th, Elizabeth and Nurse Pollard both felt themselves raised up and let down three times, as if some unseen force lifted their seats from beneath. Elizabeth described it to me later as though a man were underneath, pushing it up with his back. On the 19th, about 8 in the evening, our son Joseph, who had been in bed about half an hour and called for someone to come to him and begged for a light. He said that something under his crib raised him up very quickly many times, and I fear the horror in his voice will haunt me always. Even little Jane, about four and a half years old, has been affected. She told her mother that when sleeping with her aunt, she one night saw by the washstand at the foot of the bed a queer looking head, which she thought was that of an old woman. She was afraid and put her head under the cloths until she fell asleep. My children now refuse to go upstairs alone, and they cling to Elizabeth and myself with a desperation that breaks my heart. What was once their secure and happy home has become a place of terror for them. I presently find myself at a complete loss as to how to proceed. Every night brings fresh terrors, and I fear for the safety and sanity of my beloved family. We are now prisoners in our own home, subject to the whims of a.
- [19:51]
Genevieve Mannion
Vengeful spirit who seems to grow bolder with each passing day. The little girl thought she saw a head of an old woman at the foot of her bed. Not the whole body and head, just the head. I'm just gonna make a little Note. It's about 12:30am and either all of the blood in my body has run southward to my toes, or the temperature in here has dropped about 10 degrees almost instantaneously. Okay, I know I said I wanted to stir things up and make some disembodied friends, but I have a genuine feeling reading this might actually be doing that. And I'm starting to wonder if this was such a good idea. Regardless, there isn't much more here. I will just keep going. I now fear I am beginning to lose my faculties.
- [20:48]
Bryan
Since my last entry, I have heard the sound of a Thick stick being broken in my room, of stepping backwards and forwards, and, most disturbing of all, of my name being called when no earthly soul was present. Elizabeth and I have heard unaccountable drummings and vibrations at all hours, and the sound of someone stirring in the closet when we know it to be empty. I constantly feel as though I am being watched, studied by unseen eyes that follow my every movement. I have grown to dread the setting of the sun, for it is then that our tormentor grows most active. And I fear that whatever presence haunts this house seems to be planning something, some final terrible revelation that I dare not contemplate. It was in this state of desperation that I received correspondence from Dr. Edward Drury of Sunderland, a gentleman who had heard rumors of our plight and wished to conduct what he termed a scientific investigation of the phenomena. He proposed to spend an entire night in vigil within our home, accompanied by his associate, Mr. T. Hudson, a chemist. Dr. Drury initially wished to bring loaded muskets for protection, but I refused the firearms. I would not have weapons in a house with small children, regardless of our circumstances. So on the evening of July 3rd, Dr. Drury and Mr. Hudson arrived, and after a long discussion of the particulars, they positioned themselves on the high landing of the third floor, directly outside the disturbed room. I remained with them, determined to witness whatever might occur. For hours we sat in tense silence. I had begun to hope that perhaps the presence would remain dormant in the face of these skeptical observers, and admit I began to drift into sleep. But at one o' clock in the morning, I awoke to a scream of pure, unbridled terror from Dr. Drury himself, and followed the direction of his gaze to find the ghost itself emerging from the disturbed room. It made no sound in its approach, and it was the silence of its movement that made the encounter all the more terrifying. Then it drifted down the steps and out of sight. Both men departed at first light, their faces pale and their hands trembling, with no offer of remedy for the terror that had consumed my home. So I sit here now, writing by candlelight, knowing that even the presence of the learned men could not drive out whatever haunts this place. We are truly alone with this malevolent force, and I fear it has only grown stronger for having been witnessed by outsiders. The house grows cold around me as I write, and I sense that familiar presence drawing near. The very air seems to thicken with menace, and I can hear. Wait.
- [23:57]
Genevieve Mannion
There is something in this room with me. Something moving near the. It just cuts off. Wait. Is that the end? There's nothing else here.
- [24:09]
Brian McLeod
Oh, My God, what happened to them?
- [24:11]
Genevieve Mannion
These poor people. I was really hoping to find another answer other than what I've been thinking. But I'm gonna assume whatever they thought was let out when they unsealed that door. Maybe they thought they could nail it back in. But it sounds, at least from what's written here, that it was fully out of that room. Oh, my God. That is definitely footsteps again. All right, spectacles, testicles, wall and watch. We are going back up there to record whatever it is. Um, the door that was nailed shut. The disturbed room is.
- [25:05]
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- [25:14]
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- [25:23]
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- [25:24]
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- [25:27]
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- [25:34]
See mintmobile.com welcome back. This was so gratifying and so fun to be led through a spooky story by somebody else for a change. And I couldn't have asked for a better guide than Genevieve from my Victorian nightmare. Are you okay? Did you make it out?
- [25:52]
I am okay. I survived. I got out alive with just like a couple of scratches. I'm a little lightheaded though, from all the hyperventilating.
- [26:02]
Now, in all seriousness, this house can't still be standing, right? Is this. Could you actually go and do this and break into this place?
- [26:08]
No. The house is no longer standing. It definitely did exist. It was built in 1806. It was standing for at least 75 years. A parking lot now exists where it used to stand. But the mill, the mill in the story does still exist. It's also still in working operation. But yeah, no, I absolutely would never have done this. Not in a million years.
- [26:32]
So now it's just the world's most terrifying parking lot.
- [26:34]
Yes. Yeah, for sure. I mean, the mill itself still has really creepy things happening. Like, people say that they get pushed all the time, people who work in the mills. I think it's like a rope mill now. People get pushed. They feel like people are watching them. So creepy experiences are still had in the area.
- [26:52]
That makes me feel really unsettled. The fact that there's these ghosts who may not wish people well, surrounded by ample amounts of rope to deal with people.
- [27:02]
It's a very good point, McCloud.
- [27:05]
So if this house isn't still standing, how did you decide to approach the story this way and sort of go there?
- [27:12]
Brian took the history and spun it masterfully into that journal script, and then he gave me a lot of freedom to do what I would do, as if I would ever do this in a completely imaginary scenario where I would ever be breaking into a haunted house.
- [27:27]
McLeod
And you did such an amazing job bringing that vision to life, Genevieve. It was really cool seeing you kind of descend into this creepy, evocative, macabre atmosphere that you managed to create. And I should say, though, in writing this, I didn't have to make anything up, really, because, as we heard in the story, there was this diary that was written by Joseph Proctor, of course, wasn't found by Genevieve because she didn't wander into the house, but it was found in 1875, and it described in detail everything that appeared in the story, to the point that I didn't even have to make up a lot of MacLeod's lines. It was word for what was written in that journal.
- [28:09]
Brian McLeod
Oh, really? I was actually narrating real sections of that diary.
- [28:13]
Genevieve Mannion
Yeah.
- [28:13]
Brian McLeod
Cool.
- [28:14]
When I first found that diary, that extraordinary little piece of horror history, it was inside something called the Society for Psychical research journal from 1882.
- [28:25]
I'm sorry, could you say that again? The what?
- [28:28]
I know, isn't it? It's just so fun. The Society for Psychical Research.
- [28:32]
Bryan
Psychical research.
- [28:34]
Brian McLeod
Psychical research. But here, I have to tell you, this is so fun. I wrote it down. This is what they say were about. They are to examine without prejudice or prepossession, and in scientific spirit, those faculties of man, real or supposed, which appear to be inexplicable on any generally recognized hypothesis.
- [28:55]
So, I mean, speaking about your research, which is. Which is one of the things that I love so much about your show. You managed to capture both the tone and spirit of the era and what's going on and your emotional reaction, but all while delivering very detailed. So, with that in mind, can you talk to us a little bit about the history of this house and this family?
- [29:17]
Absolutely. I love digging into the truth, you know, behind all of these really spooky things that you read about that have happened in history, specifically from that era. And when it comes to this house, like, again, it doesn't exist anymore. It's just a haunted parking lot now. But for A very, very long time. It was standing, and it had a number of families that lived there. And the very first family that lived there, their last name was Unthank. And nothing happened to them. They had no problems in this house when it went up.
- [29:47]
Interesting.
- [29:48]
But as soon as the Proctors moved in, it was.
- [29:51]
Genevieve Mannion
They.
- [29:51]
Brian McLeod
Well, actually, for four years or so, things seemed fine, just like Brian mentioned, you know, in his retelling of that journal. But then just one night, those footsteps started, and then just all hell broke loose. For years? 16 years. These people lived in that house for 16 years.
- [30:09]
McLeod
But it's interesting, Genevieve, that's that the diary indeed did actually just cut off.
- [30:15]
Brian McLeod
Yeah, real creepily.
- [30:17]
So if the diary just cuts off, did the hauntings then stop? Is that why he stopped writing about it?
- [30:23]
No. According to Edmund, that's Joseph Proctor's son, he's the one who found the diary. The hauntings didn't stop after the journal. It's actually unclear even to him why his father stopped writing it. But the creepy experiences, they persisted until the very night that they last slept in that house.
- [30:42]
Bryan
Wow.
- [30:43]
Brian McLeod
They retained ownership of it, and then they rented it out to two other families. They warned them, too. They didn't just, like, skedaddle after renting the place. And shockingly, these families still decided to move into the house. And luckily for them, they didn't have as many encounters as the Proctors had.
- [31:01]
McLeod
I think it's worth noting, though, that even when they were in the house, they were. To say they were terrorized, I think is an understatement, because I had to leave out so much of what happened to these poor people in the house because there was just way more in the diary that I could possibly fit into this episode.
- [31:17]
Brian McLeod
It's endless.
- [31:18]
Genevieve Mannion
It's endless.
- [31:18]
McLeod
Genevieve, do you wanna fill us in on some of the really compelling and creepy events that happened that we couldn't even fit into the story?
- [31:26]
Brian McLeod
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I wanna say how astounding it was how much you were able to fit into this story and still weave it together in a way that you really, you know, you really tell the story of what these people were experiencing. But some of these things that happen to these people, they just play your worst nightmare, your best horror movie. For example, they didn't just hear steps in the house, which they did all the time, all hours of the day. They heard them outside the house, especially at night, of course, closely walking behind or beside them.
- [32:03]
Ooh, no. Don't like that.
- [32:05]
Oh, and McLeod, it even gets creepier. Like that's nothing. I remember reading that the children claimed to see a full torso, free roaming vapor, which is just glide past them through the house and into the disturbed room. Which by the way, Brian also got that detail correct. That is what they themselves referred to as that room, the disturbed room. The children, they also heard voices coming from under their beds.
- [32:31]
Genevieve, please tell me that that's the worst of it, that there isn't anything else that happened in this house.
- [32:37]
Oh no, of course there's more.
- [32:39]
Of course there is.
- [32:40]
Of course there is. This is my Victorian nightmare in sightings. Finding creepy detail, our favorite kind of homework. For me, the single most horrifying nugget from this story that didn't make it into the episode was actually from Dr. Drury. He was an investigator who came to check out the house. And this is what he said in his own, you know, own diary of what happened when he stayed. It says, quote, in taking my eyes from the watch, they became riveted upon the closet door, which I distinctly saw open and saw almost also the figure of a female attired in grayish garments, with the head inclining downwards and one hand pressed upon the chest as if in pain and the other extending towards the floor with the index finger pointing downwards. I can see this so clearly. The gray dressed ghost then turned her head upward and reached for Mr. Drewy's assistant. And in his own description of the experience, he. He sprang up to come between the ghost and his assistant, which is incredibly brave, but he landed on the floor and he fainted in terror. And it took them three hours to revive the poor guy. His assistant, however, denies seeing that anything happened. But just to me, seeing the idea of like a gray woman ghost with her head down and pointing toward the floor and like clutching the pearls, it's the worst.
- [34:18]
This is actually when I'm alone in my, in my house and the lights are all. And I let my imagination try to scare me, like that's basically what my brain imagines.
- [34:28]
McLeod
It also feels like the most Victorian image I could possibly imagine. Clutching the pearls, pointing at the floor, woman, gray woman.
- [34:36]
Brian McLeod
It just, that's the kind of imagery that like stays with me. That's the kind of thing that, like when I see a really good horror movie, it's just those im the single images that really get impressed. And in this journal there were so many of them. There were so many of these just make your skin crawl moments.
- [34:51]
McLeod
I have to say, because this was a little bit of departure from what we normally do on sightings in terms of the Time period. It was very unique looking at something from this far back. And in an interesting way, I was surprised by how dismissive they were of certain things that would have left me, you know, running for the hills, basically. For instance, you mentioned, Genevieve, that the disturbed room was real. And it was, it does appear in the diary, but it's. It's just ever so casually mentioned. Oh, it was nailed shut.
- [35:25]
Brian McLeod
Another great casual mention. I made a little note here. It says on the previous night, there had been unaccountable thumping and bed shakings, but nothing of special note.
- [35:36]
Nothing of special note.
- [35:37]
Nothing of special note. The beds are shaking up and down, the children are screaming. Honestly though, I mean, the one thing I have to mention that I didn't mention when it comes to the spookiest things that were not mentioned was numerous people, including the mother of Joseph Proctor, experienced what they believed to be a man under their bed, pushing the mattress up with their back.
- [36:06]
McLeod
No, thank you.
- [36:07]
Genevieve Mannion
Yeah.
- [36:08]
Brian McLeod
They're like, yeah, I could have swore there was a man under my bed. I'll see you guys again, right, For Easter. Like, I'll be back.
- [36:13]
McLeod
Why are these people coming back to the house to visit?
- [36:18]
Brian McLeod
It's inexplicable. It's very, very strange. But like the. And it's just, it never stops, it seems like, especially for his poor mother.
- [36:26]
If I may, Brian and Genevieve, just to slow the roll down here because I don't think I can take any more details of this haunting. I do find it interesting that this hasn't happened to everybody who has inhabited the house. Which always kind of raises the specter of my skeptical gecko, which is something on sightings that we shorthand my being skeptical about something. It's my skeptical gecko coming out. So my skeptical gecko is wondering if there are any theories that kind of COVID this vast expanse of supposed happenings.
- [37:02]
Well, yes and no. I mean, for the most part, the thing that makes the Willington Mill house so particularly fascinating is that there have been no universally accepted real possible theories. There's things that people have, you know, assumed could be true, but not one of them has been proven. One theory was that it was psychological or socio cultural. There was a lot of lore around this area, talk of witches and murderers. This was also a heavily industrialized area where like, people were often killed by heavy machinery. But the sheer amount of people who experienced these massively terrifying experiences really makes me think that that just is not possible. That just sounds like excuses.
- [37:48]
Yeah. As a father of three, you are almost in a daze for Exhaustion and lack of sleep. And so I thought maybe that could be a source of some of the hauntings from the adult's point of view of just being exhausted. Like, I had this weird, imagined low rumble tinnitus when our twins were born, and I just wasn't getting any sleep, But I was like. I kept thinking there were trucks outside my house, but there weren't.
- [38:11]
Yeah, that's the thing.
- [38:12]
But then you talk about there being so many people outside of the family and the children themselves jumps for me.
- [38:18]
McLeod
That implies that there was something going on in this house. What it might have been seems up for debate, But I'm inclined to believe that they were hearing. Seeing? Well, at least hearing something real.
- [38:31]
Brian McLeod
Are there any theories of what they maybe could have been hearing?
- [38:34]
McLeod
Well, what comes to mind. And again, I'm no expert in this era like you are, Genevieve, but the construction was certainly different back in the 19th century. So you've got the older pipes, you've got drafty windows, You've got creaky floorboards, naturally, in a house like this. But what interests me specifically is that this house was located right next to this working mill. And certainly there were sounds that might have been happening from machinery or just people working or things happening at night in there that might resonate through the house, for instance.
- [39:08]
Brian McLeod
But going back to it, it's just like, there's no amount of drafty windows or creaky floorboards that's gonna make me think there's a man under my bed Pushing my mattress up with his back.
- [39:18]
Right.
- [39:18]
Right.
- [39:18]
So if there's not actually away these experiences within, you know, a supernatural framework, Are there any theories about what the nature of these hauntings were? Demonic, ghosts, or their origins?
- [39:34]
Yes, they abound. But one of my favorite theories. I mean, of course, there's the obvious. You know, this is an. Was an old place. This was. You know, this is England. England, all of England, is essentially one big graveyard that is. That is thousands and thousands of years old. It's impossible to just, like, you know, say, yes, this must be the ghost. Cause, again, it could be anywhere.
- [39:55]
England is one big haunted house.
- [39:56]
It really is. It truly is. But, you know, of all the sort of standard haunting theories, I heard one that I actually have never heard of before. There's a certain specific kind of paranormal activity Referred to as residual haunting. This is a theory that traumatic or emotionally charged events from the past May have imprinted themselves on the environment. And the experiences that the family may not have necessarily been ghosts as we think of them. You know, These sort of conscious, floating folks who died years ago, they may have been experiences that imprinted themselves within.
- [40:39]
The home like little playbacks of traumatic experiences that they got stuck there somehow.
- [40:45]
That's a great way to put it.
- [40:46]
Oh, that's fascinating.
- [40:47]
Exactly.
- [40:48]
I actually love this theory of ghosts. This is, like, what I find to be maybe the most kind of emotionally resonated explanation for ghosts.
- [40:55]
I think so, too.
- [40:56]
It's like this fun idea that tethers paranormal activity to a vague scientific notion that my unexpert brain has of space time being relative. And you know how we experience time dilation at moments of extremely heightened emotions where it seems like an event that took a second, stretches out into an eternity within us? I sometimes wonder, well, could that feeling, that experience, extend beyond the confines of our brains to actually encapsulate the entire environment so that, like, a haunting, in a way, is like a time capsule or like an overlap of space time.
- [41:30]
Genevieve Mannion
Yeah.
- [41:30]
Brian McLeod
Where one event gets so slowed down.
- [41:33]
Dude, you're giving me goosebumps, McCloud. You're giving me goosebumps.
- [41:40]
McLeod
This is what he does. He manages to sum everything up in some really profound way. Wow.
- [41:46]
Brian McLeod
And I gotta say, Brian, I do believe if there is such a thing as a true ghost story, I think that Genevieve has brought one of the most reliable ones that we've heard in the Willington Milhouse.
- [42:01]
Well, guys, this was wonderful. I am so inspired by what you guys do, so this was such a joy to join forces. But before we go, you guys are in the middle of June gloom on your show. Can you talk a little bit more about that before we go?
- [42:17]
Yeah, absolutely. Basically, for the month of June, we are focusing explicitly on famous haunting stories.
- [42:24]
McLeod
That's right. This month, we've already covered the Sallie house in Kansas, which was a 19th century house that has allegedly the ghost of a little girl. We've covered the Stanley Hotel, which is a fantastic old stately hotel in Colorado that's allegedly haunted. And next week, we're heading to a tunnel in Massachusetts that was built in the 19th century, which has an incredible amount of history and, of course, an incredible amount of ghosts.
- [42:50]
Genevieve Mannion
Awesome.
- [42:51]
McLeod
And in each episode, we really try to bring these stories to life, much like you just heard us do with Genevieve with the Willington Mill story. So we really hope you get a chance to come check us out.
- [43:01]
Brian McLeod
Absolutely. And you can find sightings on Apple podcasts, you can find it on Spotify or anywhere you find your spooky podcasts.
- [43:12]
Genevieve Mannion
If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please rate the show and let me know in the comments. And if you would like to hear another crossover episode episode, let me know too. Maybe I can convince the guys to follow me somewhere else. Terrifying in the future. Be kind to yourselves and I will see you in your nightmares have you guys been listening to Southern Gothic? This show has all of the moody, eerie, cinematic touches that I love and try to include in my show. Southern Gothic is a hauntingly immersive history podcast that unearths the legends, true crimes and ghost stories buried deep in the shadows of the American South. Southern Gothic's commitment to trustworthy research and deep respect for its subjects really makes it stand out. From haunted cemeteries in Charleston, New Orleans and Savannah to Gula folklore, murder ballads, and the eerie remnants of old Southern spiritualism, South Southern Gothic explores tales that echo the same unsettling, though oddly comforting eeriness that folks say they love about my show. So if you're drawn to the strange customs of the past or just want a story that tingles down your spine, you'll feel right at home with Southern Gothic. Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.