Naked Beauty Podcast: "Bring Back the Experts"

Host: Brooke DeVard
Guest/Producer: Mba
Date: October 6, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Brooke DeVard dives deep into the shifting landscape of expertise in the beauty industry. With her producer Mba joining the conversation, they explore the resurgence of expert-led brands and the craving for authenticity and credibility among beauty consumers. Together, they unpack macro trends, discuss their personal experiences working with top artists, and highlight why trusted expertise matters more than ever in a fragmented media landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Return to Expertise in Beauty (00:00–04:40)

• Brooke opens the episode expressing a growing consumer desire for expert-led brands, especially in beauty and skincare.

  • Notable mentions: Danessa Myricks, Pat McGrath, Makeup by Mario, Kevyn Aucoin, Westman Atelier—all brands by seasoned makeup artists.
  • "People want experts. They want people who know what they're doing, that have been in the field for a long time to help guide their purchasing decisions." (Brooke, 00:06)

• Consumers are increasingly wary of "celebrity brands" without expert backing.

  • The appointment of Chloe Malle, a seasoned writer & editor, to a critical creative role at Vogue is discussed as a parallel in the media.
  • Skincare remains confusing—especially with an influx of questionable products and "scamming"—so brands like Sephora are rolling out campaigns spotlighting experts.

How Retailers & Brands Are Investing in Expertise (04:40–06:47)

• Mba describes firsthand observation of Sephora’s national campaign that prioritizes expert creators.

  • “They have a new bay at the front that's spotlighting these products and spotlighting the campaign. That means Sephora really wants to associate themselves with expertise.” (Mba, 03:33)
  • This move mirrors trends in skincare and haircare—a notable shift amid beauty's democratization & celebrity involvement.

• Brooke highlights collaborations where celebrity and scientific expertise meet (e.g., Martha Stewart’s skincare developed with Dr. Duval Banu Sali).

  • “That credibility, someone who's steeped in science... is interesting.” (Brooke, 04:40)
  • Absent expert involvement, celebrity lines may struggle with credibility.

The Rise of the Expert as Brand (06:47–08:19)

• The shift toward experts building their own brands is explored.

  • Example: Law Roach's transition from behind-the-scenes stylist to well-known personal brand.
  • Attention economy now favors real expertise:

    "We’re in this attention economy... More and more people are saying, okay, I want to spend my time with people that know what they’re talking about." (Brooke, 07:00)

• Mba notes Hung Vanngo’s Sephora launch as a sign of the expert-creator trend reaching new heights.

  • “It put him on the map for me as someone who didn't already know his work.” (Mba, 07:28)

The Creative Power of True Artists (08:19–11:48)

• Brooke describes her approach to the Refinery29 Fall Lookbook:

  • Complete creative freedom given to professional artists (Corey Moreno, Sir John, Zarina Akers, Brittany Boyce).
  • Points out, “Let’s give them full creative control... and have them create five looks that define the season.” (Brooke, 09:28)

• Artistry vs. Trends:

  • Many top artists aren’t taking inspiration from social media but from art, history, film, etc.

• Examples of influence:

  • “Britney will do a manicure on Kim Kardashian… then thousands of people will go out and get that same manicure.” (Brooke, 12:03)

The Fragmented Media Landscape (11:48–14:27)

• Discussion of diminishing beauty editorial guides and the challenge of finding lasting inspiration online.

  • Pinterest and other platforms are used to create more accessible, lasting resources.

• Making expert-created looks achievable for everyone:

  • “We wanted the looks to be achievable... make it something the girl can do at home.” (Brooke, 13:31)
  • These resources address younger audiences who don’t have traditional print magazines or teen-centric guidance.

The Difference Experts Make (18:44–21:30)

• Brooke and Mba discuss personal experiences with professional artists:
  • The “touch” and nuanced approach (angle, pressure, blending) set true experts apart from DIY attempts or tutorials.
  • “Even watching a YouTube tutorial, you can follow every single step... But artists have a special touch.” (Brooke, 20:07)
  • Experts think holistically—about face structure, outfit, color theory.

Building Relationships with Local Artists (24:24–27:56)

• Finding and nurturing relationships with hair and makeup artists:
  • Personal anecdotes on how impactful these bonds can be for both everyday people and high-profile clients.
  • “You can cultivate that sort of artist relationship in your own life. It doesn't have to be a stable of glam…” (Mba, 24:24)
  • Tips: Ask for artist’s contact details after receiving a great service at Sephora or MAC.

Macro Trends: Fragmented Trust & The "New" Experts (27:56–29:51)

• Waning trust in institutions increases the need for independently recognized experts.
  • “You don't stop needing vetted and credible information... just because those institutions don't exist.” (Mba, 28:06)
  • The rise of individuals with real credentials in the public eye—moving away from just anyone with "MUA" in their social bio.

Spotlight on Diverse Expertise & Heritage (29:51–33:32)

• Ellie Luna and other under-the-radar experts highlighted for their impact and artistry.

  • A promise to feature more experts in show notes and future episodes.

• Celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month:

  • Mba recommends Aura Makeup, a Mexican, plastic-free, color-forward brand boasting inventive formulations (e.g. chili-infused lip plumper).
  • Brooke shouts out Denise Vasi’s “Maid” lip products and Cindy Ramirez’s “Chillhouse” for nails—emphasizing the importance and accessibility of Latinx-owned brands.

• Bad Bunny's cultural impact:

  • “I love Bad Bunny's music. I also think he's like a beauty icon in his own right...He’s bringing it back to the David Bowie times when men were doing makeup and interesting things.” (Brooke, 33:07)

The Enduring Value of Experts—A Naked Beauty Philosophy (33:56–35:59)

• Brooke wraps up emphasizing Naked Beauty’s enduring commitment to substance and real expertise.
  • The audience is “really savvy”—preferring real science and expertise over marketing jargon.
  • Encourages listeners to check out the Refinery 29 lookbook, and promises more content and interviews with true experts.

Memorable Quotes

• Brooke [00:06]: "People want experts. They want people who know what they're doing, that have been in the field for a long time to help guide their purchasing decisions."
• Mba [03:33]: "That means Sephora really wants to associate themselves with expertise. Right. And I think to your point, we've already been seeing this in skincare and a little bit more recently in hair care."
• Brooke [07:00]: "We’re in this attention economy... More and more people are saying, okay, I want to spend my time with people that know what they’re talking about."
• Brooke [09:28]: "Let’s give them full creative control, give them the reins, and have them create five looks that define the season."
• Mba [28:06]: "You don't stop needing vetted and credible information or even vetted and gorgeous makeup just because those institutions don't exist."
• Brooke [33:07]: "I love Bad Bunny's music. I also think he's like a beauty icon in his own right...He’s bringing it back to the David Bowie times when men were doing makeup and interesting things."

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |-------------|----------------------------------------------| | 00:00–04:40 | The resurgence of expert-driven beauty brands| | 04:40–06:47 | Marketing, brands, and expert positioning | | 06:47–08:19 | Experts as brands: Law Roach, Hung Vanngo | | 08:19–11:48 | Fall lookbook & giving artists control | | 11:48–14:27 | Media fragmentation & accessibility | | 18:44–21:30 | The “X factor” of professional artists | | 24:24–27:56 | How to forge relationships with artists | | 27:56–29:51 | Macro trend: rise of authentic expertise | | 29:51–33:32 | Celebrating Latinx artistry & Bad Bunny | | 33:56–35:59 | Why expertise still matters (Naked Beauty’s take) |

Final Thoughts

This episode offers an insightful, passionate look at the need for credible, expert voices in beauty, highlighting how real experience and artistry elevate both product quality and creative inspiration. Brooke and Mba’s natural rapport and countless firsthand stories illustrate how the influence of true experts touches every aspect of beauty culture—including the products we buy, the looks we admire, and the trends that shape our world.

Recommended follow-up:

• Check out the Refinery29 Fall Lookbook via the provided link in the show notes.
• Follow the experts named throughout the episode (Ellie Luna, Sir John, Corey Moreno, and more).
• Explore Latinx-owned brands mentioned for Hispanic Heritage Month.