Brooke Devard (2:35)

Can I just be a pretty black girl? Yeah. And not pretty for a black girl, but can I just be pretty?

Candice Brathwaite (2:40)

Exactly.

Brooke Devard (2:41)

Yes, yes, yes.

Candice Brathwaite (2:42)

And so I didn't. I started to feel beautiful in my late 20s and. And I started to feel pretty in my early 30s.

Brooke Devard (2:52)

Interesting.

Candice Brathwaite (2:53)

It's taken a while.

Brooke Devard (2:54)

Interesting.

Candice Brathwaite (2:55)

Yeah.

Brooke Devard (2:55)

Which is crazy because you're so pretty. Gorgeous, beautiful. You're all the things. But yeah. It's the world around you and what you're exposed to that really conditions us. And I know that you have children, so this is something that we as moms have to be hyper aware of.

Candice Brathwaite (3:11)

So aware. And also I, you know, all my children are black, obviously, but then they have different skin tones and I'm aware of that. My daughter Esme is very emo. She's into. What's all that? It's manga. Because I say manga. She's like, mom, it's manga. She's into her manga. And so like, she's turning 12 in a couple of days and she's got half her head shaved off and she's just really cool. And like, her school say, you're not allowed color in her hair and she'll go with bright blue faux locks. And she's just like, just give me detention because it's worth it to have my own style. And I just look at her and I'm like, you are on such a gorgeous fast track to self acceptance.

Brooke Devard (3:54)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (3:54)

That I just didn't have the liberty or the freedom to do. My son, who's 7, turning 8, he's obsessed with Black Spider man and Miles Morales has like little baby locks shoved to one side. So we're currently allowing him to grow his hair so he can have the same hairstyle. And it's just very cool to parent kids who through me are very self assured.

Brooke Devard (4:20)

Yes, yes. And they're exploring and you're allowing them to explore.

Candice Brathwaite (4:23)

Yeah. And like, Esme didn't ask permission to cut her hair, by the way. She just came down one evening with half her braids lobbed off in the most uneven manner. Her dad passed out on the sofa. I was just trying to stifle my laughter because I really rated it. I was like, this is so cool. But I had to act like, you know, you should have spoken to us. I couldn't give a heck. Also, hair grows and who was I to think that having a mum like me wouldn't impact her positively?

Brooke Devard (4:54)

Right.

Candice Brathwaite (4:54)

Where she was like, it's just hair. Of course I can grow it back. You know, she's not. Yeah.

Brooke Devard (5:00)

Because she sees her mom looking so good with little to no hair.

Candice Brathwaite (5:03)

Exactly. So raising them is really interesting. And also it's just a reminder of how I think and speak about myself. Because they are always watching, always, always listening.

Brooke Devard (5:15)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (5:15)

And I don't want them to pick up on the. Even though I may feel that way because I'm human, I'm like, I don't want them to see me talking down to myself or talking bad about myself. And we also. Naked beauty. We also live in a naked house.

Brooke Devard (5:30)

Wait, you live in a naked house?

Candice Brathwaite (5:31)

Every.

Brooke Devard (5:32)

Wait. I'm so fascinated. I'm so fascinated by people who live in naked houses. Okay. Did you grow up in a naked house?

Candice Brathwaite (5:38)

Yeah, I grew up in a naked house.

Brooke Devard (5:39)

Okay, so talk me through it. What does that mean on a day to day level?

Candice Brathwaite (5:43)

On a day to day level, it just means if I'm getting out the shower. Well, number one, I don't shower with the door closed. Number two, if I'm getting out the shower and my son's approaching, I don't rush to get a towel.

Brooke Devard (5:53)

Right.

Candice Brathwaite (5:53)

Like, my husband is far less naked than I am. But I'm always naked. I'm like, this is. The kids will come in as I'm like lathering my body lotions on in the closet. And I'm not like, oh, get out, you can't see me. And I think being raised in a naked house. So I always saw naked women's bodies. I didn't realize how impactful that was until I became a grown woman and a mother. Because I think it does so much to fight against social media algorithms. And you know, I've got nothing against it because I always say if I wasn't scared, I'd have more plastic surgery than Dolly Parton. I'm just scared, scared. I'm just scared. So I, I've got nothing against it, but as a mother of young kids who know that social media peer pressure, I'm like, there has to be some balance. That BBL body is not the body you're typically going to see walking down the street.

Brooke Devard (6:46)

Absolutely.

Candice Brathwaite (6:47)

It's just that it's what your algorithm's feeding to you. Like, these are what my boobs look like after breastfeeding you. This is what my tummy looks like after having a C section for you. And you know If I decide to get changes along the way, you would have seen me before. And like this is what quote unquote a normal woman's body looks like.

Brooke Devard (7:08)

Yes. And there's no shame in being naked. None. Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (7:12)

And so my son, he's a bit like, oh, mom, boobies again. Whereas the girl. So I've got a 17 year old stepdaughter as well. They're so unbothered. It's just.

Brooke Devard (7:23)

Now, are they naked as well?

Candice Brathwaite (7:24)

They're not.

Brooke Devard (7:25)

Okay, interesting.

Candice Brathwaite (7:26)

That's like they're very much door closed. Don't look at me. Like when I take them for a bra fitting, I've got to stand outside the door and all of that stuff. But I know it will land because I remember being their age and being exactly the same. Seeing my nan, my mom, my aunties, and being like, okay, cool for you, bro. But I'm not doing that. And then coming into myself as a woman and being like, ah, I get it, you know, I don't.

Brooke Devard (7:52)

Yeah, Yes. I love that. Now, growing up in childhood, was there a moment that you felt either seen or not seen that impacted who you are today?

Candice Brathwaite (8:02)

Seen or not seen, there's no one moment. But I used to be, I used to be a junior ballroom dancer.

Brooke Devard (8:11)

Oh, cool.

Candice Brathwaite (8:12)

Yeah. And I remember there just not being any of me's actually. I was the only black girl in that dance class. And when it came time to have competition, like I'd have to get my hair hot combed the morning of and then I couldn't have a shower because the shower steam would make my hair go back to its natural 4C way.

Brooke Devard (8:32)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (8:33)

And like you're just sitting there stuffy and poised and. And I just remember wanting the ease of my other little girl dancer friends. But it's just they get there, they look like a scarecrow, then their hair's put back in a bun and all the glitter goes on and I, Yeah, that's the first time I just thought, oh, I don't like how in my brain it feels hard to be a black girl. This feels really tedious. That seems really easy. Or like the battle with a hairstyle or hair. So I think that was my first also. I'd grown up in a very predominantly black community and a very black school. This dance class was my first time of feeling like a minority. So that's when I was like, oh, it's only me here. Yeah. Now I think about it, that was.

Brooke Devard (9:22)

When I was like, yes, I can remember when I was on the swim team at a predominantly White school. After we had swimming practice in the locker room, I was putting on lotion one day, and all the girls were like, what is that? And I was like. And then the next day I was like, oh, I'm just gonna not do my lotion. I'm just gonna put on my clothes like them. And I was the ashiest. That chlorine set in. It was winter. I said, what was I thinking? But when you're so young, you just want to be like everyone else. You just want to do what they're doing. And it wasn't even like, shame around being black. It was just simply like, this is what they're all doing, and I want to do it too. But you also learn at a young age that you can't.

Candice Brathwaite (9:58)

Exactly. And so it makes me think about the situations my children are in now. They go to predominantly white schools. And I'm just to some degree, overdoing the blackness in my home.

Brooke Devard (10:14)

You have to.

Candice Brathwaite (10:15)

Because I know that when they go out there, it's a different scenario and a different set of rules, and they may want to skip the lotion or, you know, And I'm just like, I'm trying to create that balance in the house.

Brooke Devard (10:27)

So important now, what did success look like to you when you were younger? What did you think? What did success look like? Did you think, I'm going to be this best selling authority, I'm going to be a personality?

Candice Brathwaite (10:39)

This is so funny. Success looked to me, I. I think you guys call it the same in America. A kitchen island.

Brooke Devard (10:46)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (10:47)

I was like, when I get an.

Brooke Devard (10:49)

Island, I've made it, it's over.

Candice Brathwaite (10:52)

Like, it's so over. I won't tell you, but there will be signs, like, when I get a kitchen island. And, you know, it came in stages. It was like when I get stairs. Because we'd always lived in flats or apartments, so it was like, okay, when I get a house, I've made it. And then it became, when I get an island, I've made it. And it's just a couple of days ago, I just peeked through my kitchen and laughed to myself. I was like, girl, you've got an island. You hardly ever. That's so funny. But outside of, like, actual material things I always say to people, I was very clear about who I was going to be. I knew I was going to be an author maybe from age 8.

Brooke Devard (11:31)

Oh, wow.

Candice Brathwaite (11:31)

I also knew I'd be, like, a very esteemed orator. I didn't know how, but I knew that my voice was going to be like, really important, not just in pop culture, but in history. And I was always clear on that narrative. Even when the world, like, just beat me up a bit and threw me off course or whatever, I was like, okay, this is exactly what I'm going to do. And so for me, that was arriving at that. That place is what success.

Brooke Devard (12:00)

Yeah.

Candice Brathwaite (12:00)

Was for me. Although now, the older I get, every hike up this mountain, the definition of success changes.

Brooke Devard (12:07)

Yes. Yes. It. It's constantly changing. Which is why I want to move into your 20s, because you and I are around the same age. And I want to talk about the 20s because I have a lot of listeners, A lot of women listening to us are in their 20s.

Candice Brathwaite (12:20)

Yeah.

Brooke Devard (12:21)

And trying to figure it out, and they don't know what direction to go in. In the 20s, from age 20 to 29, you change so much. That's like 50 years.

Candice Brathwaite (12:31)

So. And it's like when I look back, okay, so number one, we rush humans way too much. And what I mean by that is I'm astounded that at around 16, 18 in the UK, they're like, what do you want to do with the rest of your life? You now need to go to uni and rack up loads of debt and double down. I didn't know how to pay a council tax bill. Like, please stop with all. So I'm like, the 20s are absolutely the time for messiness, for mucking it up, for, like, making. The only thing I always try and encourage those in their 20s not to do is mess up their credit. I'm like, yes, that's a big oops. And as someone who did it, it's really time consuming to fix, and it blocks barriers of entry from other things. But outside of that, have the time of your life. I didn't start to come to my senses till about 29.

Brooke Devard (13:21)

That's accurate, though. And that's important for people to hear because you're not supposed to have it figured out at 25.

Candice Brathwaite (13:26)

Oh, and I had my kid at 25. Sometimes I'm like, what the heck? And I remember sometimes just looking at her and her looking at me, and as I've gotten older, me having now so much empathy for my parents, because I'm like, okay, so what? I'm coming up to 38 now. And I'm like, I still don't know. And I was looking at you guys, like, get this together. And now I'm even older than I was when I was looking at you. I'm like, get together?

Brooke Devard (13:54)

Yes. Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (13:55)

I don't know anything. You Know so my. I'm not gonna lie. It took me a really long time to forgive the girl. I was in my twenties.

Brooke Devard (14:04)

Yes. So say so, because I want to talk about what you valued in your 20s, the group of people you were around. And that's changed now that you're in your 30s, because I. It's. You outgrow friendships you outgrow. You outgrow a lot in your 20s. If we can go back to that time, what did you value then?

Candice Brathwaite (14:25)

I valued male attention, especially in my early 20s. I valued friendships that were rooted in trauma bonding.

Brooke Devard (14:35)

Trauma bonding how?

Candice Brathwaite (14:37)

Like, oh, no, girl, I've got it. I've had it worse than you. Oh, we've both had it worse. And that. Let's just literally spend all weekend in this room back to back, smoking Benson Hedges cigarettes, watching Scandal, crying about how down bad we are. And it was just like a past, the parcel of all of these issues. And, like, can we outside each other and like, always clubbing, always raving. Or till this day, if I smell sambuca, Like, also always high. So drinking, being high. Be just being an absolute raging mess. I remember one time coming home from the club, couldn't find my house keys, having my neighbor upstairs, shoulder off my front door. Me, like, stumbling into the bathroom, sticking up all this sambuca, falling asleep on the bathroom floor, waking up in the morning, front doors wide. You can't make it up. Also, though, do you know what I love? I love that as a black girl, I got to be so messy.

Brooke Devard (15:42)

That's also important.

Candice Brathwaite (15:43)

I love that because I feel like now, especially because of social media and phones being ever present, but just this genuine, this general idea of black excellence, we typically don't get our messy moment or our messy decade. Yes.

Brooke Devard (16:00)

Yes. I'm so grateful that social media was not a thing when I was out in the club. I mean, we brought our digital cameras. We had, like, a Facebook album we would update, but it was only your friends. It wasn't this idea of, like, the world wide Web. Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (16:11)

And we weren't. We weren't prepping to go out for the world. I feel like now even the drinks you have at home, someone's camera's up. Let's make it real. Everything is staged for this audience.

Brooke Devard (16:24)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (16:24)

Whereas we just didn't have that. And so even though I'm like, I'm so embarrassed by her, I'm like, girl, it was also a wicked time. Like, do not deny your. Like, it was amazing.

Brooke Devard (16:35)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (16:35)

You didn't have the capacity to do it. Now, but it was amazing.

Brooke Devard (16:38)

Any mistakes with men that you made?

Candice Brathwaite (16:40)

Oh, every day. Every day I made the mistake of thinking men were going to save me.

Brooke Devard (16:46)

Like my life is a mess, but if I get a man, it's all going to come together also.

Candice Brathwaite (16:50)

So hinge on older men.

Brooke Devard (16:53)

Interesting.

Candice Brathwaite (16:53)

Yeah.

Brooke Devard (16:54)

Like is your husband older than you now?

Candice Brathwaite (16:55)

Just by a few years. Like he's 40. But like in my 20s I was dating men in their 40s. Oh, wow.

Brooke Devard (17:01)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I got married in my 20s and my husband is 10 years older than me.

Candice Brathwaite (17:06)

See? But then as you grow, that doesn't eat.

Brooke Devard (17:08)

Oh, yeah. No, it's not even a thing. It's not even a thing.

Candice Brathwaite (17:11)

Now I'm. It always comes back to being a mom. Now I'm a mum. I'm like my 23 year old daughter with like a 46 year old.

Brooke Devard (17:21)

Yeah, that's crazy.

Candice Brathwaite (17:22)

That's not going to check. That's not going to check out. Yeah, it's not going to check out. And it's also them realizing one of them in particular he just had a habit for. And I'm not even joking, dark skinned black girls whose dads were all dead and they were all under 25.

Brooke Devard (17:40)

Was he white?

Candice Brathwaite (17:41)

Yes.

Brooke Devard (17:42)

Oh my God. Wait, first of all, how did you connect these dots? Like you met a few of the.

Candice Brathwaite (17:45)

Other exes then when I. So a few of the exes when I started dating him, they were speaking to me and they were like, he's absolutely going to blow your life up and ruin your life. You're the girl that's like, no, I'm different. You're never different. You're never bigger than the program, as the girlies say. You are not bigger than the program. I'm different. And I was like, oh my God, they look like me. And okay, all their dads are dead. That's so weird. Anyway, he absolutely, that's psychotic. He almost sends me to a mental institution and then like guys and no one judged me. You know, sometimes you're just bored and you just stalk your exes to see if they're down bad. Yeah, like I.

Brooke Devard (18:23)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (18:23)

I'm like, you have to be down bad.

Brooke Devard (18:26)

Karma has caught up with you and I need to see. Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (18:28)

So one day, this is a few years ago, I'm in bed, just doing a quick stalk.

Brooke Devard (18:33)

Quick stalk.

Candice Brathwaite (18:34)

It comes up that they're married. The girl is the prototype. And I was like, wait, she's the prototype?

Brooke Devard (18:40)

She looks like you. Yeah.

Candice Brathwaite (18:41)

I was like, five, four, three, two, one. I'm telling You. Her dad is dead. I found her socials scrolled like four rows down. There's like, the funeral.

Brooke Devard (18:52)

No.

Candice Brathwaite (18:54)

I was literally like, no, that's crazy. That's crazy. So I'm just like. I just. Yeah.

Brooke Devard (19:03)

But also recognizing that you're a type as a black woman is another thing. So because my husband is not black, it felt. Comforting is not the right word. But knowing that he had dated all types of women from all different races.

Candice Brathwaite (19:15)

Yes.

Brooke Devard (19:16)

Made me walk into it. Not like I'm being fetishized. It wasn't that every single woman he dated before was black.

Candice Brathwaite (19:23)

Exactly.

Brooke Devard (19:24)

That would have been.

Candice Brathwaite (19:25)

Yeah. Men in my 20s. And it's so funny. So the man who's my husband now was off the back of that relationship, and I gave him. I gave my current husband hell. Absolute hell. We're off, then we're on, then we're off, then we're on. And then he. One day, he was just like, I know you've been through crazy stuff, but I'm just gonna be here, so you might want to work on your issues.

Brooke Devard (19:51)

Oh, wow. And I was like, that's a man.

Candice Brathwaite (19:53)

I was like, oh, okay. And it's so funny. I think he wasn't the first. No, he definitely wasn't the first black man I dated, but he was the first black man I'd been with in a long time. To the point when old school friends met him, they were like, you married a black man. I was like, I know, I know. I've always got a trick up my sleeve. Girls.

Brooke Devard (20:13)

Yes. But. But making all of those mistakes, again, so important.

Candice Brathwaite (20:16)

Oh, yeah. I couldn't be the candice I am now without all of that.

Brooke Devard (20:22)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (20:22)

And I couldn't speak with conviction. So whenever I'm like, on socials or I'm giving a talk in real life, it's never from like having read a book or having an idea.

Brooke Devard (20:33)

You lived it.

Candice Brathwaite (20:34)

Such a lived experience. Experience, you know? And again, you know, it's those 21 year olds that come to you with the bright eyes and they're like, I'm different. I can change him. I could. You're never bigger than the. You're just not.

Brooke Devard (20:47)

Never, you know.

Candice Brathwaite (20:48)

And I'm like, just marry the nice guy.

Brooke Devard (20:52)

Yes. That is so underrated. Everyone has their checklist. He's got to be this tall. He's got to have this type of job. But marry the nice guy that treats you well.

Candice Brathwaite (21:00)

Yes.

Brooke Devard (21:01)

That supports you, that roots you on that. Like, that makes your life better.

Candice Brathwaite (21:05)

Thank you. And that allows you to shine yes. You know, that is like, no, you go and get yours. Go and do that. How can I support you doing your thing? It's so. I'm just like, please, just marry the nice guy. The bad boys are so cute on paper and, you know, have fun with them. But, yeah, marry the nice guy.

Brooke Devard (21:23)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (21:24)

Yeah.

Brooke Devard (21:24)

So in your 30s, yeah. You become a very successful author. You start to think of yourself, I would imagine, as a brand as well. What is the Candice brand? What does it represent? How do I want to be perceived?

Candice Brathwaite (21:37)

What is the Candice brand?

Brooke Devard (21:40)

When did you first start having to think about that? I would imagine it happened with your first book.

Candice Brathwaite (21:45)

No. And this is what's really interesting. When you don't have the right team, you're not thinking about that stuff. I. I wasn't thinking about my personal brand when the first book came out. I've only. And it's so interesting to get feedback. I've only really started to think about my personal brand in the last two and a half years.

Brooke Devard (22:03)

Interesting.

Candice Brathwaite (22:04)

And that's because we had a complete change in the team. Fired everyone. My husband became my manager. I got signed with a great agent, got a great publicity team. And then I was like, okay, now I'm a brand. Because everyone around this table is saying, this is how we have to think about your brand. No one was saying that before. They were like, yeah, just do your thing on socials and let's make ad money.

Brooke Devard (22:34)

Well, because they get a commission on that.

Candice Brathwaite (22:35)

Exactly. But also it's like, especially given how that creator economy has exploded, that's just not a sustainable way to think about things. I want to be on someone's brain outside of going viral. I want to be on, you know, someone's call sheet outside of having to make 20 TikToks a day. And that is when a personal brand is done well, because it means you're forever going to be not just employed, but also trusted.

Brooke Devard (23:06)

Trusted is huge. People really overlook that.

Candice Brathwaite (23:09)

They really. And they. I think they do away with trust just for the numbers of the moment. Oh, I'm going viral now. I've got I don't know how many million followers on Tick Tock. And I'll be very frank. I follow a lot of lovely people on Tick Tock, but I don't think about them as brands. Yeah. I'm just like, oh, you're entertaining. That's a funny video. I've not once been like, oh, yeah, I'll buy your book. Yeah, I'll come to your meet and greet.

Brooke Devard (23:37)

Right. So you have this team in your 20s. I'm sorry, in your 30s.

Candice Brathwaite (23:40)

Yeah.

Brooke Devard (23:41)

You look around and you realize that you don't have the right team. Were there certain signs or triggers that made you think these are not the right people to be supporting me?

Candice Brathwaite (23:50)

It began as a feeling.

Brooke Devard (23:51)

A feeling, yes.

Candice Brathwaite (23:53)

But especially black women. Whenever taken on feeling, we must have a fact to support our feeling.

Brooke Devard (23:58)

That's true.

Candice Brathwaite (23:58)

This feeling started maybe three years before the fact arrived. I was just like, something's not right here. So I just had a feeling. Also, I think it's really important to note my team were all white women. We have to put a pin in that, guys. It's very important to the story.

Brooke Devard (24:16)

Yeah. And as someone that has a team in Los Angeles, that is kind of the norm. It's very hard to find black talent managers or agents, especially at the big agencies. They are few and far between.

Candice Brathwaite (24:29)

So all white team. I'd been with them almost seven years, and I just started to feel like I'd gone from what I call pet to threat. I'm starting to be like, I want more from my future, and no one's ever really thinking about my future. Okay. Anyway, long story short, I won't even get into how we found out. It turns out one of my agents was my online troll. Dun, dun, dun.

Brooke Devard (24:57)

Oh, my. The gas that just came out of this room. Wait, no, we have to get into how you found out. And we have to get into, like, what were they saying? What were they trolling?

Candice Brathwaite (25:06)

Okay, so this is insane. It's not that I'm not at liberty to give details. It's.

Brooke Devard (25:11)

Yeah, okay, what were they trolling? Like, was it Instagram comments? Was it.

Candice Brathwaite (25:15)

Oh, I can't say, because then if I say, I say, I will say. It was a producer I was working with at the time who was able to access the back end of something, and it was coming up with their work email. So the trolling wasn't even done in a intelligent manner. Now, what was really interesting about finding this out, though, is that I had handed in my resignation six weeks before that. Like, I'd been like, okay, we need to part ways. I still didn't have a fact.

Brooke Devard (25:45)

How long were they trolling?

Candice Brathwaite (25:47)

Good. Eight months.

Brooke Devard (25:48)

So what would be their motivation for doing this?

Candice Brathwaite (25:50)

And also what I've had to sit there and think about is, this is the trolling that we are aware of.

Brooke Devard (25:56)

Right.

Candice Brathwaite (25:57)

That's always. I'm like, okay, this.

Brooke Devard (25:59)

There's no telling. The deals that were sabotaged, there is no telling. But what is her Motivation.

Candice Brathwaite (26:06)

I think the motivation was, let's cut Candace's confidence down to the ground and make her feel as though she can't go anywhere else. Because I do remember one of them saying as we were parting ways, good luck finding anyone to sign you. No one's gonna want to do that.

Brooke Devard (26:25)

They said this to you? I mean, this is outrageous.

Candice Brathwaite (26:28)

Babe.

Brooke Devard (26:30)

Wow.

Candice Brathwaite (26:31)

Babe.

Brooke Devard (26:32)

So your success really is like the ultimate revenge.

Candice Brathwaite (26:36)

It's the ultimate. And don't get me wrong, like, I have a burn book. I'm very, I'm. I'm not a kumbaya girl.

Brooke Devard (26:42)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (26:42)

I'm like, bitch, die now. Like on sight. Drop dead. I'm trying, guys, I'm trying. I'm just not there. Yeah. And it's been a, it's been a hell of a three years for me because these things are existing in my real world as a. And this is where it gets really sticky. As a black woman, As a dark skinned black woman. It's not a conversation I was comfortable bringing to the online forum. You're angry, you're bitter, you're delusional. The narrative is very quickly gonna be pulled away from the reality that I've been done bad.

Brooke Devard (27:19)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (27:20)

There's going to be a whole host of other things. And so till this day, the true details, I've played very close to my chest and I'm just about now comfortable saying it as it is because I'm.

Brooke Devard (27:33)

Like, yeah, I mean, they don't deserve protection just now. Does the person know that you know?

Candice Brathwaite (27:37)

Absolutely, absolutely psychotic. And if you're watching babes, you can send that apology directly to my email whenever you want because I'm still.

Brooke Devard (27:47)

Whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready. What's it like working with your husband as your manager and how have you thought about defining your personal brand Now?

Candice Brathwaite (27:56)

Working with my husband at first was really, really difficult because he has no off switch. And also we've worked out that I think he's, he felt guilty because for years I was saying, I want to leave this agency, it doesn't feel right. And he was like, it's fine. You sure it's not in your head? Like, you know, things take time. And so then when we have the fact to support the feeling, I think he was crushed because he was like, she was always right and I've let her stew in this shitty scenario for far too long. And so I think he went completely the opposite way in the first 18 months and went into overdrive, like, no off switch. Wake up at 2am I've got this idea, like, had no boundaries around when we should be on and when we should be off. And we've really had to work very hard at that because the lines completely got blurred in terms of work, relationship, mum and dad, all of those things. But he is a master at what he does. Like, I just sit there and I'm like, this is, yeah, great. Sure, I'm the raw talent. I'm the real deal. But he leaves no stone unturned.

Brooke Devard (29:10)

Oh, wow.

Candice Brathwaite (29:10)

And he's like, okay, I hear your no, but just remember that's a no for now. And I'm marking down the date. You said no. So that when you spin the block, yes, you know why there's a 20% increase on the price. You said no. Like, he's so. And I do think that. So prior to me, he used to work in construction and he'd manage portfolios up to like 10 million. And for years I was like, you should just be my manager. And he's like, no, you're great with those girls. Stay there. Just be my manager. And he was very like, I. I don't know how to manage someone. And one day I was like, just think of me as the portfolio. You were out grinding, selling, fishing, shoving this business in people's. I'm now the business you need to shove in someone's face. And I just think he's doing exactly what he's meant to do. And I'm very, very excited to see where his career goes.

Brooke Devard (30:05)

Does he take 20%?

Candice Brathwaite (30:06)

He doesn't know that's family money.

Brooke Devard (30:12)

I love it. I love it. Now, I want to go back to, how do you define your personal brand now? Because that's a big exercise that I think no matter what you do, even if you work in corporate, if you work at a bank, you need to figure out what is my personal brand.

Candice Brathwaite (30:25)

I think my personal brand is authentic. I think it. And sometimes I cannot find the words for my personal brand, but I can describe the feeling. It's Auntie Ish, it's big sisterish, it's motherly, it's warm. It's also, though, very correcting. My personal brand. Like, if you engage with my work, you're not always gonna feel great because something in that book or that talk is gonna make you go, well, yes, I am the problem. You know, there's going to be some pushes on self discipline. I know how my personal brand feels. I think it looks glossy. And I've worked on that. And what I mean by that is it took a really long Time for me to be confident in displaying how I wanted to be perceived. Especially in the uk. In the early days there was such a dark shadow over the idea of black girl luxury. Now, not luxury defined by a red bottom, although it's clear I love them. But luxury as in, yeah, I'm gonna get the facial. I do like to spend time on myself. Yeah. I do have a housekeeper. I do think I'm worth taking myself away for the. I was so petrified to show that side of myself because again, especially in the uk, it comes with a lot.

Brooke Devard (31:41)

Of kickback in the US too. I mean, we had Jackie Aina on the show and she talked about making that switch into just showing home content and luxury and lifestyle and people were just angry, angry, furious. Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (31:53)

So like me even like showing my closet took a really long time. And then one day I was like, no, this is absolutely what it is. And if you want trauma porn and a black woman crying into her coffee, there's millions of those videos or those kind of stories being written. But it's just not going to be the root of what we do here. So even though I do want the personal brand to feel luxurious, it's never like unattainable. It's not in my mind what I perceive to be ridiculous.

Brooke Devard (32:23)

Your closet is pretty unattainable for most. I will say I see the videos. You've got some pieces, you've got some serious pieces. How did you develop your personal style?

Candice Brathwaite (32:33)

Trial and error. So much trial and error. Number one, I went to a performing arts school where you didn't have to wear uniform.

Brooke Devard (32:41)

That's cool.

Candice Brathwaite (32:42)

So when your other schoolmates are like in their stuffy tie and blazer. We are living a very fame type lifestyle and like wearing the most ridiculous things. That was helpful. You know what? My mum was that girl. And by that girl I mean a 6 inch booty every day, red nails, red lips. Used to wear her hair in this awesome French roll. She used to get her hair done once a week on a salon on Brixton Hill. Faux fur coats and like a Gucci hobo, but just killing it.

Brooke Devard (33:13)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (33:14)

And I used to look at her and think, one day, one day I'm gonna eat them up just like her. And she had a best friend at the time and they were like Bill and Bob and they would just switch down the high street in their faux fur. Oh, it was so romantic. And I think that's where my heart for what is actually just displaying that you enjoy life through style. That's where the heart of that comes from.

Brooke Devard (33:41)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (33:42)

Even when I'm going to the gym, but unless I'm, like, ill, you're never gonna look at me and think, oh, she's not having a good time at life.

Brooke Devard (33:50)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (33:51)

Because the clothes I'm wearing just don't say that.

Brooke Devard (33:54)

It's like joie de vivre through dressing.

Candice Brathwaite (33:56)

Yes.

Brooke Devard (33:57)

Yes. The joy of adorning yourself.

Candice Brathwaite (33:59)

Of literally. Yes, Literally. Like, if someone doesn't comment or go like, oh, where are. Where are you off to? I think I'm having a bad day. Everyone should think I'm off to prance out. Where are you? Yeah.

Brooke Devard (34:14)

Yes. I love that. I love that you talked about self. You mentioned the word self discipline. And I will say you are extremely disciplined, because we all saw your treadmill journey.

Candice Brathwaite (34:25)

Yeah.

Brooke Devard (34:25)

Where you just said, I am going to commit to a rigorous workout schedule and you are going to see the results in real time.

Candice Brathwaite (34:31)

Am I okay?

Brooke Devard (34:32)

Like, I mean, it's been incredible to watch, but talk to us about your fitness journey and how that helped you kind of level up in your own career and life.

Candice Brathwaite (34:41)

Until I committed to my fitness journey, everything that came out of my mouth that I said I wanted, I actually wasn't willing to work for.

Brooke Devard (34:49)

Okay. That is. We need to spend more time on that. Because being disciplined, doing the thing that you say you're going to do, showing up even when you don't want to show up. Right. People always like, oh, I want to have a podcast. And I'm like, this, like, what we're doing is what, 10% of it would you say?

Candice Brathwaite (35:05)

Yes.

Brooke Devard (35:06)

Literally.

Candice Brathwaite (35:07)

So, like, I think to make. To make not. Not reaching certain goals easier in my mind, I just said to myself, you're lazy. You're lazy by nature. It's okay. Not everyone has a discipline gene. Fine. And that was the lie I told myself up until reigniting this fitness journey. Because people don't know me. But before my kids, I'd run two marathons and an ultramarathon. And this was in, like, 2010, 2011. But this is in my very early 20s. I'm part of a really cool running club. It's a lifetime away, Kids and life happens. And that goes to the back of my mind. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Remember her? Let's switch that back on. And it has been the most ultimate slog, but also the most beautiful thing I could ever do. Because if you've run, I don't know, 15 miles by 6am Yeah, I can have this shitty meeting at 9. I can stand up for myself at midday. I am now so a woman of my word. And everyone believes me because they've seen what I do for myself. It's like a proper signature of authenticity. And I said to my pt, this was maybe last year. I was like, by next summer, I want to take my top off in front of men and for them to go raw. She's really about it. Like, she's cut, she's defined. Let her go. She.

Brooke Devard (36:31)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (36:32)

It's such a. Like, it's a badge of honor for me now because I'm like, so we've done two marathons this year. We did London. I'm like seven days post New York today.

Brooke Devard (36:41)

Oh, you did the New York marathon?

Candice Brathwaite (36:43)

I did New York marathon.

Brooke Devard (36:44)

Congratulations. Congratulations.

Candice Brathwaite (36:46)

On the heaviest day of my period.

Brooke Devard (36:48)

The way I would have just immediately woken up and said, I'm not doing this.

Candice Brathwaite (36:51)

And it ran for me.

Brooke Devard (36:52)

It wasn't meant for me this time, it wasn't meant for me next time.

Candice Brathwaite (36:56)

I was literally like, for context, guys, I have fibroids. So when I say I have really heavy periods, like an ultra tampon will last 45 minutes at best. So I was really sitting on the bed. Like, you have every reason not to show up today. Also, you flew in yesterday. You're really jet like, like, if you tell this story to anyone, they'll be like, we get it. And I said to myself, but I'm not telling myself that story. We're going to touch the start line and we're going to figure this out on the way. Five hours, 40 minutes later, we figured it out.

Brooke Devard (37:26)

Like, you are amazing. You are amazing. Now I'm also happy to hear you say that kids happened, life happened. And you, because I am 11 months postpartum and the fitness journey is non.

Candice Brathwaite (37:39)

Existent because you need to be okay. I tell new mothers all the time and it doesn't matter how many kids we've had. I'm like, number one, you're to make no grand decisions before the kid is two. When I look back on having my children, I didn't even start to see a glimpse of myself until they were two reason being around two, there's typically slight communication coming in so we know when they're tired and when they're hungry. If you have that kind of kid, there's a firm sleep routine. So now I'm getting decent sleep. I was like, I tell all my friends. I'm like, you do not want to cut your hair unless they're abusive. You do not want to leave your man. There is nothing wrong with your house right now. You do not want to move.

Brooke Devard (38:21)

No.

Candice Brathwaite (38:22)

You don't want a PhD. Whatever dumb thought you're having in this moment is actually not real. We are just exhausted. We are wired, and there is really still not great enough respect given to how much our bodies have changed, our hormones have changed, like, sent us crazy. So I'm like, before 2, I'm not even trying to entertain work, right? I'm going to push this buggy and walk around the park maybe. And even then, beyond two, it's like you're. Maybe you're trying to settle them into daycare or nursery. Like, there's always another thing.

Brooke Devard (38:56)

Always. It's a whole second job.

Candice Brathwaite (38:58)

It's a second job. And so I'm just like. When women are like, oh, you know, I see you on your fitness thing, and I want to get back. I'm like, yeah, and when you know it's time, you'll know it's time when you're ready to commit. I could not commit to myself in that way when my son was 5 or when he was 2. I just didn't have the brain space.

Brooke Devard (39:18)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (39:18)

No way.

Brooke Devard (39:19)

Jose, what helped you to get motivated? Was it having a treadmill in your space? Was it buying cute workout clothes?

Candice Brathwaite (39:24)

It was definitely having a treadmill in my space.

Brooke Devard (39:27)

Okay. Because most people buy it, and then it becomes a clothing rack.

Candice Brathwaite (39:29)

Yeah, it was. I wanted to do the workout, but I didn't want anyone to see me.

Brooke Devard (39:34)

Interesting.

Candice Brathwaite (39:35)

You know what I really hate? I hate turning up to marathons and other people are there. That always blows me away.

Brooke Devard (39:42)

You're like, I thought this was, like, marathon for one.

Candice Brathwaite (39:44)

I thought you were nudging me. Like, it's very much alone time for me.

Brooke Devard (39:48)

Okay.

Candice Brathwaite (39:48)

I've had multiple invitations to running clubs. Thank you so much. Never gonna come. Because it's not just alone time. It's also. I don't want to be in any lane of comparison because I know how I am. So when I turn up to this run club and I inevitably get smoked because there's always gonna be someone faster.

Brooke Devard (40:06)

Always. Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (40:07)

I don't want it. I don't want them to be impacted by that personal judgment of, I'm not them. What's the point? And so, for me, the motivation really started in having my own little cave. Closing that door. Like, being breathless in private, sweating in private, understanding that, you know, I can only jog for 30 seconds and then walk for a minute in private. I don't think I'd be where I am if I was like, I'm in the gym. I'm around all these people. I'm going to join the wrong. No, no, no, no. Now, I have great confidence in the gym, but that's only come from working with a personal trainer and choosing not to be a cardio bunny. Like, if I'm in the gym, you're lifting heavy.

Brooke Devard (40:50)

Yes. Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (40:51)

I can do cardio somewhere else.

Brooke Devard (40:53)

Yeah.

Candice Brathwaite (40:53)

I'm in here to walk to that squat rack and drag the bench and be with the grunting men. That's why I'm in the gym and being with my pt. He also had his own private gym, so that helped. So I could sort my form in that time and work out how to use equipment in that time. I think if I just throw myself into the public workout sphere. No way.

Brooke Devard (41:15)

Yeah. No, that's. That's great to hear because you. You do have to figure out how to make it work for yourself.

Candice Brathwaite (41:20)

Yeah.

Brooke Devard (41:20)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (41:20)

And, like, after Esme, I think I was smaller than I am now after Esme, but I definitely had no muscle mass. I would run at 4am every day, but it would be 4am because Bode had to leave for work at 6 and I didn't want anyone to see me.

Brooke Devard (41:35)

Wow.

Candice Brathwaite (41:35)

So it's 4am, huge tracksuit, massive headphones, sweating it out at 4am Like, I. And of course, don't forget, guys. So I had Esme when I was, like, 24, 25. I'm still very much afraid of being perceived not wanting to take up space. I don't want you to see me struggling, whereas now I'm like, yeah, I'm struggling.

Brooke Devard (41:55)

So we have to talk about the skin. Your skin is so gorgeous, like, luminous, just even all over, all the things that we want. What are the skincare products that you absolutely love for face and body?

Candice Brathwaite (42:09)

Skincare products that I absolutely love.

Brooke Devard (42:11)

And, like, let's start in the shower.

Candice Brathwaite (42:12)

Yeah. I was just about to say I'm a huge ambassador of lush. Oh, body wash. And I think my favorite one is Sticky Dates right now. They also have one called Rose Jam Obsessed. Now, girls, we need to talk, because I saw on the TikTok you lot are trying to give my almond L' Occitane body oil stuff a bad name.

Brooke Devard (42:36)

Oh, really? They don't like it. I love that shower oil.

Candice Brathwaite (42:40)

I said, you're of the wrong generation. I buy that stuff by the truckload. I love to use it to shave my legs. I love.

Brooke Devard (42:46)

Oh, it's so nice. What's something like about it?

Candice Brathwaite (42:48)

They were like, ew, the smell is Disgusting.

Brooke Devard (42:50)

The textures, like, the whole thing, they're wrong.

Candice Brathwaite (42:53)

I was like, no, guys, you're just too young. You don't understand. And that almond shower oil, it's a little slice of luxury for me because when we didn't have much, it was the thing I would treat myself to. And so I still use it with the vibes of, like, it just makes my day better outside of. And I'm not really a shower everything girl, you know, when every. All the things girl. I'm just, like, scrubbing. Get out. And also, I feel really germy in a bath. So if I bath, I have to shower after. But that's a different conversation outside of the bathroom. Estee Lauder's advanced Night Repair.

Brooke Devard (43:28)

Ooh, the serum. Oh, yes. A classic for a reason.

Candice Brathwaite (43:32)

Ugh.

Brooke Devard (43:33)

Do you know what a makeup artist who works for Estee Lauder taught me that? I was like, this is mind blowing to me. She's like, you can use it in the morning too.

Candice Brathwaite (43:39)

Yeah, I use it in the morning. Yeah.

Brooke Devard (43:40)

And I was like, oh, why have I just been saving it at night? I can use this day.

Candice Brathwaite (43:43)

I love it.

Brooke Devard (43:44)

It's amazing.

Candice Brathwaite (43:45)

Kiehl's do something called clearly corrective serum, which is really good for hyperpigmentation. And I found this out after my husband got chickenpox as an adult, which was horrific.

Brooke Devard (43:57)

Isn't that, like, almost like you can die from it?

Candice Brathwaite (43:59)

Yeah, yeah. It was a really hard time because RJ got Genopox at the same time. It turned into, like, a secondary bacterial infection. He was in hospital, so I had to stay with him. Then Bode's at home dying of the chickenpox. The child that bought chickenpox into the house is, like, free after two days. Like, wow, I'm cured. Anyway, Bode's skin got scarred really, really bad, and it really impacted his self confidence. And he went into Harrods Beauty one day, and the woman at the Kiehl's table was like, oh, you need the clearly corrective range. He was like, I'll try it in three months. And so as someone that I get hyperpigmentation just at the thought of a spot, that clearly corrective serum is my ride or die. She's new to the pack, but I do love her. Charlotte Tilby does some, like, nighttime cream.

Brooke Devard (44:46)

Oh, is it the skin perfecting the white cream?

Candice Brathwaite (44:49)

Yeah, it's like a light pink, and it's really heavy. It does smell like old lady. When I smell it. I was like, this is what an old lady who likes prunes Smells like. Or like. Sucks on the word. As original. It does smell like an older lady, a lovely lady, but that. It's almost like a face mask at night.

Brooke Devard (45:08)

Oh, I love that.

Candice Brathwaite (45:09)

And I only use her maybe two to three times a week because she's very heavy. But I love. Also I'm a big fan of red light mask.

Brooke Devard (45:16)

I just got my first one.

Candice Brathwaite (45:18)

I use it three times a week.

Brooke Devard (45:19)

Okay.

Candice Brathwaite (45:20)

Ten minutes.

Brooke Devard (45:20)

Which brand?

Candice Brathwaite (45:22)

MZ Skin. Okay. It's pink, and that's really me. Always sunscreen. Always, always, always, always. If the sun is up, it can see you. That's just the rule. If the sun is awake, it's penetrating your skin. And I sway between Anthelios by La Roche Posay. And I've just got some new one in from some K beauty brand.

Brooke Devard (45:45)

I know the Korean brands are killing it.

Candice Brathwaite (45:48)

Wonder Stunning.

Brooke Devard (45:50)

Really? Can I get it here in London?

Candice Brathwaite (45:52)

Yeah, definitely.

Brooke Devard (45:54)

Okay.

Candice Brathwaite (45:54)

Definitely. I've started to mess with eye creams because I thought I didn't need them. I need them. So I'm doing a little. I think I'm using some Dermalogica eye cream. But shout out an eye patch brand called du.

Brooke Devard (46:09)

Yes. Do we just had this week on the podcast, the founder, Charlotte Palermino.

Candice Brathwaite (46:13)

Charlotte, call me. The fact that these things are reusable.

Brooke Devard (46:17)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (46:18)

Genius.

Brooke Devard (46:18)

Genius. I mean, they're all about sustainability.

Candice Brathwaite (46:20)

Genius. Because then you can use whatever eye cream you want and they don't move.

Brooke Devard (46:25)

Yes, exactly. You can keep them on all day. And I put them on when I'm doing my eye makeup so that any fallout, it just. And it's like, it can make a really nice, like, winged liner.

Candice Brathwaite (46:35)

That is genius.

Brooke Devard (46:36)

Yeah.

Candice Brathwaite (46:36)

Okay. I'm.

Brooke Devard (46:37)

No, no. Yeah. They really ate with that product.

Candice Brathwaite (46:39)

But as you can tell, I'm a bit of a beauty junkie, so.

Brooke Devard (46:41)

Yeah. Tell me the makeup brands.

Candice Brathwaite (46:43)

Oh, okay. What foundation am I loving right now? I cannot pronounce anything. Lancome Tent Idol. Thank you.

Brooke Devard (46:51)

Yes. Yes. I know it. A classic. Another classic.

Candice Brathwaite (46:54)

I just love how perfect she is. And then I love. I think it's. Is it Dior backstage?

Brooke Devard (47:01)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (47:01)

I do love that for photos. And I've just fallen in love with Charlotte Tilbury. I just thought Charlotte Tilbury wasn't for me. And then I had a Charlotte Tilbury artist who's black do my makeup.

Brooke Devard (47:13)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (47:13)

I was like, I'm gagged. I'm gagged. The glow was, like, from my soul.

Brooke Devard (47:18)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (47:18)

And I was like, I thought this kind of beat wasn't even achievable on me.

Brooke Devard (47:23)

Right. That kind of glowy. Yes, yes.

Candice Brathwaite (47:25)

Just look at, you know, like the golden snitch from Harry Potter.

Brooke Devard (47:28)

Yes. That's the glow it was giving.

Candice Brathwaite (47:31)

I'm just like. So I'm Charlotte Tilbury obsessed. I'm still on my lips. Mac lip liner in Night Moth.

Brooke Devard (47:39)

That's your classic.

Candice Brathwaite (47:40)

That is my classic. The red I'm rocking right now is by Prada. Not only is it a great red, the packaging is stunning.

Brooke Devard (47:47)

I love the Prada beauty packaging. I'm like, you got. You guys had me at the packaging. Mascara, the hand cream, the lip products, the packaging obsessed.

Candice Brathwaite (47:57)

And then I'm still a Mac lip gloss girl. What I found of late, not that you asked this question, but in my opinion, a matte red lip aged me.

Brooke Devard (48:07)

A little gloss adds some.

Candice Brathwaite (48:09)

A little gloss. And I used to love to be completely matte in the face. Like corpse matte. Like, yeah, no, no.

Brooke Devard (48:17)

You need some dewiness. Yeah.

Candice Brathwaite (48:20)

I'm like, babe, you were really aging yourself with those beauty habits. Don't do that. I. Eyebrows benefit.

Brooke Devard (48:26)

Your eyebrows are perfect, by the way.

Candice Brathwaite (48:27)

Another benefit. And then I'm using. I think it's a Maybelline laminate thing.

Brooke Devard (48:32)

Yes.

Candice Brathwaite (48:33)

Love that. That's all I can think of. I stopped wearing lashes.

Brooke Devard (48:37)

Okay.

Candice Brathwaite (48:38)

I wore lashes every day for five years.

Brooke Devard (48:41)

Wow.

Candice Brathwaite (48:42)

Then I got a really gnarly eye infection on a flight to New York, and I was like, yeah, we're done with that.

Brooke Devard (48:48)

You also don't need them. Your lashes are gorgeous.

Candice Brathwaite (48:49)

Yeah. This is Charlotte Tilby. I'm just like, we're just going to do mascara also. Do you know what? And of course I don't have wig blindness because I don't wear them. But there's also eyelash blindness.

Brooke Devard (49:00)

Absolutely. We see it every day.

Candice Brathwaite (49:01)

You look back on those pictures, I'm like, you look like you're about to take off. Where are you going?

Brooke Devard (49:07)

I know.

Candice Brathwaite (49:07)

You look like a Boeing 7.

Brooke Devard (49:09)

Horse crazy.

Candice Brathwaite (49:13)

As I've gotten older, there's been a beauty in pulling it back a bit. I'm like, okay, you don't need such a heavy lash. You don't need two layers of a very matte foundation.

Brooke Devard (49:24)

Right.

Candice Brathwaite (49:25)

Literally, let some of your natural beauty shine through. On the days that I'm wearing no makeup, the one product I'm taking to the grave is by merit, and it's.

Brooke Devard (49:36)

Their Great Skin Great Skin Moisturizer. Yes. Again, they really did their thing with that product.

Candice Brathwaite (49:41)

That stuff is insane. Every time I wear it, people are.

Brooke Devard (49:45)

Like, what's on your skin?

Candice Brathwaite (49:46)

What the hell's going, I'm like, it's the serum.

Brooke Devard (49:48)

It's the serum.

Candice Brathwaite (49:49)

And again, their packaging, how sleek everything looks. That serum. Oh, Ride or die.

Brooke Devard (49:55)

Yes. Okay, I want to wrap up by asking about present day and your legacy still on the same kind of theme of reinvention. So who are you now in this season of your life?

Candice Brathwaite (50:07)

I am now a woman who's comfortable being a woman. And what I mean by that is, for too long, I've thought of myself as a girl needing to seek permission, or I was always just waiting for someone to walk in the room and be like, you don't run things. I run you. I always felt like I wasn't yet an adult, and now I'm finally like, no, I'm the adult. I make the decisions. I'm also getting really comfortable firing people. I will not be in hell for seven years ever again. Like, the second I have the feeling we're not waiting for the fact this working relationship is not working. And not just work, this friendship, whatever, it's got to go. So, yeah, I'm. I'm now a very confident woman.

Brooke Devard (50:55)

I love that. When people from the outside looking in see your evolution, what do you hope they take away from it?

Candice Brathwaite (51:01)

I hope they take away from it that you're always right. And I tell young girls this a lot. They're like, what advice do you have for me? I say, you're always right. And what I mean by that is that clear narrative you had on your life when you were like, five, six, seven, eight. That's it. And then life got in the way. People put their and what they didn't achieve in front of you as hurdles. You are always right. And I hope people looking at me are like, yeah.

Brooke Devard (51:29)

Yes. That intuition is what you have to trust.

Candice Brathwaite (51:31)

Yes.

Brooke Devard (51:32)

Okay. If reinvention is a lifelong practice, what do you imagine the next iteration of Candice is?

Candice Brathwaite (51:40)

Okay. There's so many. Just hold on to your hats, guys. I must, in this lifetime, if I don't own a chain of funeral homes.

Brooke Devard (51:49)

Wait, that's so random.

Candice Brathwaite (51:51)

It is, but it's always been like, if I could redo life, I would have studied to be a forensic scientist for sure. But then I also would have got whatever I need to actually embalm bodies. So I definitely want to work in the death space.

Brooke Devard (52:09)

Interesting. What motivates that?

Candice Brathwaite (52:11)

My dad dying. I was. You're kind of horrified because the first time I've seen a dead body that close, but he did not look like himself at all. Also, there was just no care. It's one thing to not look like yourself. When I was looking at the details of what had been done, they were atrocious. And in the back of my head, I was like, I would never allow a family to see their loved one like that. I found the whole process really disjointed, really disconnected, and very much because those in the death industry see it every day. They'd forgotten that everyone that walks in this space is new. Whether they've lost multiple people. This is the first time they've lost this person. Yes, it was. You know, like, the guy working at the Chapel of Rest had on a dirty tracksuit, and it was clear my dad's body literally just got pulled out the freezer before.

Brooke Devard (53:03)

Yeah, I shouldn't have said that. That's random. That makes sense, that seeing. I was like, seeing that experience with your father.

Candice Brathwaite (53:09)

I don't like that. And I also think there's room for, especially in the uk, for more black people to get into the deaf space and help us say goodbye to our loved ones with certain practices. Aside from that, I think I'd love to run an art gallery. I've become quite the art collector.

Brooke Devard (53:28)

Yes. I've seen the beautiful pieces at your home. Yeah.

Candice Brathwaite (53:30)

So I'm like, I see that in my future. Also, I did this amazing meditation a couple of years ago with a writer called Rachel Cargill. And in this meditation, she made us travel on this light beam and see ourselves in the future. And I saw myself at 40 opening the door to this glorious brownstone. No surprise there. But at the time of that meditation, I didn't recognize that woman. Now I'm starting to understand how the gap is being closed. This woman, who is me, opened the door, and she looks like she's a Pilates instructor. She doesn't drink coffee. We are not there yet. But I remember when I came in that gorgeous house, and I was like, oh, can I have a coffee? She laughed and she said, we don't do that, but you'll figure that out. And she opens this cupboard to all these herbal teas, and there's incense burning. And so I'm not quite sure what she does, but she feels very holistic.

Brooke Devard (54:27)

Wow.

Candice Brathwaite (54:27)

And very grounded. I'm not there yet, but I'm like, okay, whatever she's doing, we need to do that.

Brooke Devard (54:34)

Yes. That's amazing. And the older you get, you just realize that health really is the ultimate wealth. It's everything. It's everything.

Candice Brathwaite (54:42)

And I say to my husband all the time, because, again, rebranding all of these things it's been a really stressful three years. And I'm like, listen, everyone has 100 problems till their health is bad. Then you have one. Yes, you have one issue. Because the tool you need to get through the day or the world is not working sufficiently. So sometimes when we're just batting our trauma back and forth, I'm like, oh, please shut up. Let's go to the gym and enjoy the health that we currently have. Because also, it's all just currently.

Brooke Devard (55:12)

Everything can change in an instant.

Candice Brathwaite (55:13)

It's just currently, you know, and so I never want to be in a position where that's taken away from me. And I'm like, ugh. I wish I realized how precious that was. Yes.

Brooke Devard (55:23)

Wow, it's been incredible talking to you today. I have to end by asking you, when do you feel most beautiful?

Candice Brathwaite (55:30)

I feel most beautiful dolled up. I know people say naked, all of that shit. I'm like, the whole shabam. When Marshayna's done my face and I don't know a good Christopher John Rogers gown. When the heels hurt.

Brooke Devard (55:46)

Yeah, heavy on the heels hurting. Because these are the things we do. Exactly. Well, I'm excited to get all glammed up for our dinner tonight to be with other amazing black women here in London doing their thing. Do you know the other women going?

Candice Brathwaite (55:58)

I don't. Will you tell him it will show his clam?

Brooke Devard (56:01)

Yes. Okay. It's gonna be very fun. All right. Thank you so much, Candice. This was lovely.

Candice Brathwaite (56:05)

Thank you for having me, guys. Bye. 9:10, 9:10 begins I sit on heels like Lauren until the rain starts coming down pouring on the chair I got my umbrella my finger waves these days they fall like humpty chumping I break up with him before he dump, dump they have me yes, he love me yes, he love.

Richard Jefferson (56:39)

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Candice Brathwaite (57:39)

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts Here's.

Brooke Devard (57:43)

A show that we recommend.

Candice Brathwaite (57:47)

This season on the Dream.

Brooke Devard (57:49)

Supplies are being provided by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase diapers, but the hospital is still charging as it they still have these items.

Candice Brathwaite (57:59)

We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy. The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes. So you can never stop working. The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly. Starting Monday, January 20th. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.