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- [00:01]
A
Y' all remember back on the bully when cats used to harmonize like.
- [00:06]
B
Hello? Hello, it's Brooke Devard and you're listening to the Naked Beauty podcast. I am just back from New York City. I was in New York shooting the winter lookbook with Refinery29, and guess who I got to work with? Last week's guest, Katie. Jane Hughes. To see her at work was incredible. We also worked with an incredible stylist, an incredible nail artist. Oh, my God, the nails in this are insane. It's coming out the first week of December. I just love getting to do fun editorial work with Refinery 29. We are really trying to put a focus on the artists driving beauty culture, the artists driving fashion culture, and let them kind of do their thing. So honored to be a part of those shoots. This conversation is for the skincare girls, for the. For the political girls as well, because Charlotte Palermino thinks so deeply about beauty in the wider context of the world. She's a licensed esthetician and she's the co founder of a little brand that I'm sure you all know called Dew. It's a cult favorite beauty brand with sustainability and consumer education at the forefront. Dew is all about rituals, not miracles and helping people learn what works for their skin. Now, I personally love the Trinity Serum. I love the Instant angel cream, the eye masks, the forever eye masks. The best. The best. Now, I had Charlotte on the podcast, Gosh, in 2020, before Dew Skin even launched, which is also just. It's been so interesting to see in the past nine years of Naked Beauty. I know, nine years, if you can believe it, just how I have grown and evolved with my guests over time. So I love a boomerang. I love, like a second time a guest coming back to talk when we haven't caught up on air in five years. In addition to running do, Charlotte is an incredible content creator and she uses her content as this tool to show how beauty is connected to economic, environmental, and social issues. She did not hold back for this conversation. You all are going to really, really enjoy it. Let's get into today's episode. Charlotte, welcome back to Naked Beauty.
- [02:09]
A
Thrilled to be here.
- [02:10]
B
It's so interesting. Our first conversation was in 2020 and then I ran into you. It was, I believe it was 2022 at the Works in Brooklyn. I was there for some sort of speaking event. You were like, I'm about to hit launch on my first ever brand. Like, it's going live in a few hours and now look at you.
- [02:28]
A
It was Instant Angel. That was Going live, which turned out to be our. It's our number one product now.
- [02:34]
B
It is a fantastic product.
- [02:36]
A
One of the top moisturizers at Sephora. I can't say the exact ranking, but it's very good.
- [02:41]
B
Yes to Sephora. Give you guys those, like you sell one every like 37 seconds. I feel like Ulta Beauty always gives their sellers that information.
- [02:49]
A
We end up getting like the volume. So we know, like, you back out the math for what's being sold. But yeah, we've. It's interesting. So many times brands launch tons of newness to hit their revenue goals. And for us, we've really focused on core because I believe legacy brands, you really need to have kind of these products that people cannot replace in their routine. And it's been incredible for us and not launching new products this year. We have like maybe one launch. We had Ethereal. That was it.
- [03:19]
B
Wow. Congratulations. I really look up to you as someone in the skincare industry who is a truth teller. You're also a creator and you're a founder, so you do so many different things. You've advocated on behalf of better sunscreen regulation. You've advocated for better pricing transparency in the beauty industry. And as I mentioned, you were on in 2020 and we got your full story. But if you could just give a brief synopsis, please. Our listeners, how do came to be and why it was something you were so passionate about creating.
- [03:46]
A
Yeah, so I was in tech and media for years. I was working at Hearst Magazines as an editor, and then I was at Snapchat and I was working during the 2016 election. And I saw very quickly how misinformation can actually lead to really bad decisions. And then I started to see a lot of misinformation in the beauty space. And it's what led me to Joyce because I really wanted to study cannabinoids. I saw so much promise with CBD and CBG and cbn, but I saw the wellness industry ruining it.
- [04:17]
B
Right.
- [04:17]
A
Because they were promising it was going to like cure cancer and your acne and it was going to cure all these things. And I'm like, no, it's probably really good for inflammation. And so Joyce and I designed, or Joyce really designed a clinical study and then to really understand the dosage of cannabinoids. And in that process and in actually formulating that first serum, I learned so, so much. And I realized there were so many things that brands were selling to you on without really leveling with you. One being like you mentioned price transparency. The reason that a lot of formulas have a 10x markup from the formula. Cost isn't because they're taking that 10x markup. It's because they have to pay wages, they have to pay factory workers. It's like there is like you. Every brand, no matter what is doing that 10x markup, if their product is $12, then their formula probably costs around a dollar all in because you cannot get rid of payment processing fees. Every brand exists to make a profit. And so for me, it was very much so about breaking down a lot of those walls and just helping you understand what do you actually want, what are you trying to solve for. And then budget obviously takes a part of that. But not every brand is scamming you because they're charging you 40 or 50 or even $80 for a moisturizer.
- [05:32]
B
So there's paying wage workers, there's paying workers, but there's also branding. If you have a storefront, there's a lot into it. And the more fancy the brand is, the more they spend on marketing, the more expensive the product is as well.
- [05:46]
A
100%. There's always like a different sliding scale.
- [05:49]
B
Yes. Now you mentioned 2016. 2016 is the year I started this podcast and for listeners, especially our Gen Z listeners that maybe are newer to the skincare audience, 2016 was a really wild time in terms of clean beauty, the Think Dirty app. We were all going to die from our toxic products and there was, I feel like it was like peak misinformation around skin care and a lot of fear mongering. Clean beauty was everything and like quote unquote, clean. What does it mean? But I love clean and I'm putting for listeners, clean products. I love clean beauty products. But can you just take us a little back to what that time period was like in beauty marketing and just how they were trying to make us all.
- [06:35]
A
I think what's really interesting because we're seeing the so I talk a lot about politics warning to anyone who listening to this pod. And the reason that I do is because I see it as an obligation as somebody who has like a modicum of power within the industry to really point out things that are happening. But I don't think that people realize that if you microdose misinformation for a really long time, you're going to go into much larger conspiratorial thinking. These kinds of like very innocuous things like, oh, I, I just don't want parabens in my skincare. It can quickly spiral to people like RFK getting appointed and so when you look at clean beauty and where its origins were, I think the intention was good. People wanted really safe products. The problem was they were not talking to scientists, they were not talking to experts, they were reading off PubMed and not understanding the actual results. And they were cherry picking information which is what you do when you are not a scientist or an expert. And so me meeting Joyce actually blew my my mind because I was a non toxic girl. I was somebody who cleaned out my closet and got rid of all my dirty products and I used the EWG like I was that mold. And it was in meeting Joyce that I realized that it's a really great Tagline to say 1300 ingredients are banned in Europe and only 12 are banned in the US but when you actually break it down, those ingredients aren't allowed in skincare in the U.S. and so you realize that people are selling to you on things that aren't real and you realize that it's very much, it's very Trumpian where I think emotionally they're touching on the right thing. We want better wages, we want better living conditions. We all want to feel like we have purpose, we want safety in our skincare products, we want safety in our food. But when you're going with solutions that do not fix the problem, you're just, you have a lot of noise. And that's what unfortunately the movement really became because they didn't work with experts or scientists.
- [08:39]
B
Yes. And I do think we are living well. We're living in an anti intellectualism age but we're also living in a time where there is so much more access to information. There are so many more creators like you that are having these much more nuanced conversations. I remember when I had Dr. Shereen Idris on the podcast. She was talking about all the clients in her New York City practice that are like I don't want a single paraben in my skin care. She's. And then they step out into the smog and pollution of New York City and there's just like such a, like fundamental misunderstanding of what a small percentage of parabens in skincare do to preserve it versus like this. Yeah. Fear mongering that it's like destroying your.
- [09:15]
A
Yeah. And parabens are found in nature that methyl parabens and blueberries. You eat those. Are you going to start demonizing blueberries? It's like your body is incredible. And of course if you start orally garaging yourself with these ingredients. Ingredients, which is basically when you fuego rat with a toxin to See how much it takes for them to die. That actually would happen with anything. You're trying to see what it takes to get them to die. Not, oh, this has danger. Everything's dangerous. It's in the dose, which is when you then get into toxicology. And so it's just very nuanced, which I love, because I see a story in nuance.
- [09:52]
B
Yes, absolutely. Now, you talked a little bit about transparency with De Skin. What challenges did you face in establishing this level of transparency in the industry?
- [10:03]
A
I think the first thing is that investors did not want us to talk about the things that we wanted to talk about. And that continues. People get scared because when you're transparent, people are afraid that somebody's going to start picking things apart and calling you out. And that absolutely happens. But for me, because we have the receipts, I'm not too worried about any of that, because anytime somebody's negative, you can just use that for content.
- [10:27]
B
Right.
- [10:27]
A
To keep debunking. And so I think that was the first thing. I think the second thing, too was that there was concern that nobody in beauty wants to be negative. I find that very funny, though, because everybody was down with clean beauty, and I was like, they're calling everybody else dirty. How is that not negative? You know what I'm saying? I'm like, if anything, I'm actually answering a lot of questions that brands aren't answering and giving them a platform to respond or helping them explain economies of scale or we recently changed air angel from 75ml to 50ml and the price went down $10, but the price per ML went up. Rather than not saying anything, I just explained to people what fixed costs are. We still have to run a line, we still have to pay the factory workers. Just because the size is smaller mean that you pay, doesn't mean that you pay less wages. And don't worry, we're coming out with a jumbo and there's going to be even better savings on that. So it's like, rather than being scared of critique, address the critique head on. And it's also great to teach people about how business works, because I find that nine times out of 10, the complaints people have with companies, it's because they don't understand that was actually a business decision and the company might go under or the product might be discontinued if it didn't change.
- [11:45]
B
Absolutely. And I also think that there's a certain level of infantilizing skincare customers where there's this thought, especially from the bigger brands. Oh, we can just give a fancy name for this, like, complex blend of proprietary ingredients and just call it like Diamond Light TM or whatever and people. And that's fine. And like, people won't have questions beyond that. And I think when someone like you comes along or do skin comes along, there's this. Okay, thank you. You're talking to us like we're the adults that we are.
- [12:12]
A
Yeah. People are really smart. And I think that when you can. If you give people bad information, they're going to make bad decisions. It's like investments. If somebody lied to you about a stock price and then you bought it, like, you wouldn't be pleased with that, you'd probably try to sue the person. So I think that it's. It's very similar how we approach our products and our skincare and even our pricing. Because I'm really excited. At the end of next year, we're launching a serum and it's going to be at a much lower price than I think what people would expect. Because we don't price our serums based off what we think you should pay. We price it based off of the cost of the formula, the cost of the packaging, and the cost of the warehousing. Right. So it's like it keeps us honest in a way. So I'm really excited.
- [12:58]
B
That's great. Now, you've talked about your investors and your investors maybe not wanting you to be fully transparent. What has the fundraising process been like for you?
- [13:07]
A
Yeah. So I will say I feel like fundraising. It's so much around luck and privilege and. And connections. Right. Those are three things that are really important because I have to acknowledge, for me, I was pretty not shocked that people gave me money and I had to fight for money, but I was able to secure funding, which I know is not the case for everyone. What I will say is that DO has been profitable from day one. We really waited on retail because I didn't want to raise for retail. Skincare is a much easier business to run than color cosmetics. Color cosmetics, you basically have to fundraise because of the sheer volume of SKUs, like the number of products that you have to have, plus the shade ranges, plus the shade extensions, et cetera. And so for us, we were able to fundraise for the research and development of the serum and the cannabinoid complex. And then we ended up having just enough money. Like, we didn't pay ourselves for a long time, but we had just enough money to scrape by the Forever Eye mask. And that actually was such a good stroke on our part because we were able to make that mega viral fast and it was profitable. And so that's actually what funded everything else we haven't raised since 2021. So we've actually not raised much money at all. We just made sure to have a profitable business, which is something I deeply recommend for skincare in particular.
- [14:29]
B
Yes. It's so great to hear you say that. I think that everyone's used to operating at a loss, getting this big influx of VC money, doing the big fancy brand campaigns and PR seating and the huge events and. Yeah. You're shaking your head vigorously.
- [14:43]
A
No, I'm like, no. It gives me so much anxiety. I'm like the child of immigrants and so is Joyce. And I'm like, debt. Like it took me forever to even get a credit card. And so I think that it's made us a little bit scrappy or sometimes too scrappy.
- [14:54]
B
Right.
- [14:55]
A
Because you then don't take care of yourself. But you worked in tech as well, and I think that some investors are tech investors and they expect expect you to scale and grow at a really fast rate. And when you take money, you're making a promise that you're going to scale scaling fast. That leads to money and revenue. It doesn't lead to longevity or brand. I'd rather have a brand for 10 to 15 years and then sell kind of what Medicaid did.
- [15:20]
B
Right.
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A
Medicaid was a brand for, I believe, 12 to 15 years and they sold for 1.3 billion. That's the path that I'm more interested in and impressed by, quite frankly, because it has that longevity piece.
- [15:33]
B
Yes. So you did mention selling is the ultimate goal to sell.
- [15:38]
A
Not now. Right. It's like one of those things where I'm like, if the right partner came around, if the right steward of the business came around, sure. But if it's just to do a quick sell. No, no.
- [15:51]
B
Got it.
- [15:51]
A
Because also, it wouldn't even be a good sell to the investor. It's like our audience would hate that. Right. So I wouldn't even do. It's not really an option. It's like we have to build a really strong business first. And that's what I'm excited about doing, is building a strong business and using beauty to red pill people back into trusting experts.
- [16:12]
B
Yes. We just did a whole episode about trusting experts. You talked about the Forever Eye masks, one of my favorite products from you all. And now every single time, Rhode just launched their eye patches. Every single time I see a eye patch that you just throw in the Garbage. After using it a single time, I'm like, no, it doesn't have to be this way. You guys developed great silicone eye patches. So can you talk about the Forever Eye patches?
- [16:34]
A
Yeah. At the time when I was creating the Forever Eye Mask, I was in esthetician school because I was hanging out with Joyce, and I was like, I don't know if anybody watches Game of Thrones, but I was Jon Snow. I was like, I know nothing. I know nothing. It was so embarrassing being in meetings with her. And I was like, I need to understand just the basics of skin. So I did my esthetician's license. It was super helpful because. Because it helps you just in continuing education. And in doing that, I was doing a ton of facials and mummy masks, and I just saw how much I was throwing out. It was giving me anxiety. And I was like, imagine if I used eye masks every day, which is what you would need to do in order to see any effect. You need to use them daily. Otherwise, they're a cute accessory. They might depuff ever so slightly, but you gotta be consistent. And so I noticed that there were full face masks. I have a really high nose bridge. Thank you. To my Italian jeans. So anytime I wore a sheet mask, also on top of that, it would tent. So my under eyes would never get the benefits of a sheet mask. And so I was like, why don't we just have little silicone eye patches the same way that they do the full face one? There was this woman that had a full sheet mask in the US and so I wanted to do just the eye patches with any cream or serum underneath. And so that's really what became the inspiration we wanted to brand it. So Lee Schwartz from this agency, psa, ended up doing the branding for it. The color selection, I almost had them black and white, and I wanted a big logo. And then he kind of blew it out further and did that dark green. And so, yeah, it ended up becoming very iconic. And then we designed the wing eye mask and the tattoo eye mask. We just did a collaboration with Eckhouslada. And so it's just been a fun way to keep reinventing an idea.
- [18:20]
B
Yes. You also collaborated with the queer artist Willie Norris on the Promote Homosexuality eye patches.
- [18:26]
A
Yes, I love her. And whether it be for ethereal or Promote homosexuality, the queer community has done so much for the beauty industry, and I felt like we needed to raise money and just raise a little noise on why people really need to be paying attention to what's happening, particularly in government yes, absolutely.
- [18:47]
B
Now, sustainability, greenwashing is another thing that the industry is plagued with. And I know you have like aluminum packaging for Instant Angel. How for just the average person that's looking at their skincare shelf, how do they figure out what products are sustainably packaged? Are there any, like, telltale signs?
- [19:05]
A
My thing is, is I'm like, you're just, you're making a decision about good trash or better trash, because it's all trash. Because we live in America and nothing is recycled here. If we lived in Europe, it would be a different story because Europe is actually pretty amazingly locked in on recycling things fully. So all of our aluminum sourced from Europe, because they have a pretty strong recycling loop. Almost everything in that country that's aluminum is recycled. Whereas here we're more like 35%. I like aluminum, but recycled aluminum, that's because virgin aluminum, it's very cheap and it's mined. And when you start mining things, it's horrific from a labor perspective, but also from an environmental perspective because of runoffs and because you're just crunching into the earth. So just because something is aluminum doesn't make it sustainable. And so for me, I would look at the claims that a brand is making. If a brand is just claiming, oh, our glass is sustainable, I would question that we have to use pcr, plastic in some things. I don't know if I would necessarily call that sustainable. Sometimes it's like the best of the worst options that you can use because if a product isn't stable, if it doesn't say stable on shelf and you're throwing it out, not sustainable. So what I would say is buy products that you use and that you finish. And if you want things that are more sustainable, my preference is recycled aluminum.
- [20:31]
B
Got it. Now, there's something you said that I really want to double tap on. Finish the products that you buy. And that being the best pathway to sustainability, I personally, this is not my reality. As, you know, as a creator yourself, we get sent so much stuff and because I want to try it and review it for the audience, and I really want to have a point of view about every new product. So like, yes, I open it, I try it, I can't finish everything. In my mind, there's something so chic about just having one cleanser, one moisturizer, like one little essence, like just having like, these are the things that I know work for me. And this is my bathroom and it's not cluttered and I don't have products spilling out all over the place, but it takes A lot of discipline and also a little bit of blocking out the marketing. Because what as we know, beauty marketing is always telling you, like, you need the newest, latest, hottest, best. And like the mascara that you used to have, guess what? This mascara is better. The blush you used to have, we've updated it, we've changed it. That's not going to cut anymore. So it's like they're always pushing you to buy the new thing. How do you in your personal life stick to not buying new things? Because you certainly don't need anything facts.
- [21:34]
A
The way that you just said it's chic to have a capsule collection for your skincare is so real. Because I look in my cabinet and I'm like, this is embarrassing. So the thing is, I actually use very little with skin care. I have quite sensitive skin, and so if I start going wild, I'll get periodermatitis. Like, I tried skin flooding. I was like, maybe this time it'll work. And I immediately got super rashy right around I call it my muzzle. And so I cannot do too many steps. I'm like, limited by my skin. And so for me, with skincare, I am big on efficacy. I'm 38 and white, and so I age more quickly. It's just genetics at that point. And so for me, it's all about sun protection, getting collagen on a treadmill for where I feel like I'm like really working it out to the max of what I can. And then a lot of exfoliation, because exfoliation gently is going to give me, like, the best quality of skin. And makeup goes on like a dream. And so for me, I would say the best way to actually pare back your routine is to actually figure out what you're trying to solve for and then figure out the best products that actually fit that. And then if it's not broken, don't try to fix it. I think that everyone's looking for that miracle product that's going to just, oh, my God, it's going to change my skin. As you get older, it takes weeks, if not months to start seeing changes in your skin. Like, we're talking 12 to 16 weeks to see, to actually understand if a product's working for you. And I don't think people actually commit in that way. Everyone wants to be non monogamous with their skincare. And I'm like, for the love of God, the one place where you should be monogamous is your skincare routine. Routine. Just for a couple of months. Just try it.
- [23:13]
B
Yes, yes. Now, you did talk about being in search of a perfect product. I think one of the product areas that I'm, like, always willing to try something that's highly recommended and I haven't committed is a lip balm. And I know you guys do not make a lip balm.
- [23:25]
A
I'm, like, right here with, like, my 40 products. I hear you.
- [23:28]
B
What. What's your go to lip balm?
- [23:30]
A
My go to lip balm is Edam. And it's not just.
- [23:33]
B
Okay, I love it.
- [23:35]
A
I know. It's not just because Marie is, like, the perfect, like, French girl, but because, you know, that formula, the applicator, the flavors, it's just up my alley.
- [23:44]
B
What's your go to flavor the guava one? The guava? No, the guava is my favorite. That's controversial.
- [23:52]
A
Oh, okay. I, for a living, have to read Sephora reviews, and people are like, it smells like soy sauce. And I'm like, your palate is broken.
- [23:59]
B
What? No. I'm like a delicious.
- [24:02]
A
I'm a lip on sommelier. And I'm telling you, that is the closest to actual guava because it's, like, a little bit sour, which is so nice, and it's not saccharine.
- [24:10]
B
I love the guava. Now, you've also talked about aging in skin care, and you very publicly got Botox after saying you didn't say that you weren't going to get Botox, but you're just like, I don't have Botox. Which is absolutely where I'm at. Charlotte. I tell people I don't have Botox, and it's not because I have anything against Botox. I've just been pregnant for forever and then breastfeeding for forever and just haven't. But also, look, I'm going to people. I'm on Zoom so people can't see. But I'm lifting up my eyebrows. I don't really have.
- [24:40]
A
No, it's genetic. It's genetic.
- [24:42]
B
Okay. I need everything. I need. Why you hadn't done it before? Because, you know, in New York, girls are getting Botox at, like, 22 years old. So why you hadn't done it? What made you want to do it? The experience of having it and how you feel about it now.
- [24:55]
A
So the reason why I would say it is because I would be told that the reason that my skin looks the way it does because of Botox. And I'm like, no, that's not true. And it's still not true. Yes, my forehead. But that's about it. Now. The reason that I got Botox was that I turned 37. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm starting to see I'm very expressive. And for me, I've had elevens since my twenties. I just have. I frown even when I raise my eyebrows. I have Botox. And you can see that I'm still able. Like, she got strong muscles, right? So I still can get those lines. Not everybody gets that, though. That is a pattern in my forehead that is going to be different pending on the person. And the reason that I got it was because I woke up after November 5th, and I was waking up with these crazy tension headaches, and I was frowning so much. And even, like, Joel, my boyfriend, would tell me, like, I would be sleeping, like, tense. And so I was like, you know what? Fuck it. Let me try Botox. Let me just see what happens. I saw this doctor say, incorrectly, that Botox gets rid of your empathy. And I was like, I want to care a little bit less, though, because I think I'm caring a little too much. Didn't get rid of my caring excessively for what is happening globally and particularly in New York City. But I did wake up with less tension headaches, and so I'm a big fan of it for that. And also, I love how it looks like. I think vanity and also youth. Does it make me look younger? I don't know. I think I look pretty similar because when my forehead was resting, I didn't have any lines. I think for me, I live in that very cognitive dissonance place of I care about what I look like. I'm trying not to care about looking youthful. But getting Botox does help me think less about how I look, and so it's almost letting me operate more easily in the world. But I do recognize that I am falling for certain beauty standards, which is uncomfortable for me to admit. But I'm like, it is true. It is.
- [26:50]
B
You know, it's. I put on makeup every day, right? Not every day, but I put on makeup. I get hair extensions. There are lots of things that I do that fall firmly into the patriarchy and how we've been socialized to think things are beautiful, and they're like, just degrees on that scale. Now, it's interesting that you talked about it being shown to reduce empathy, because I've actually read the opposite study that people that get Botox to treat things like frown lines show improved mood because they've shown this correlation between frowning less and, like, being happier. I actually found this study, it's a 2009 study, and it found that Patients treated with Botox for frown lines showed significantly less negative mood than patients receiving other cosmetic treatments, supporting the idea that reducing frowning correlates with improved mood. So that's interesting.
- [27:37]
A
My tension headaches have gone away.
- [27:40]
B
That. And that's going to make you happier.
- [27:41]
A
I literally was. I was so still am very upset, but it was like, to the point where I woke up and I was just like, crushing Advil.
- [27:51]
B
I will say something that concerning way one, I think it's been interesting, Trump being back in office and now this time living in Los Angeles versus living in New York. So one, I think being in New York, politics is very. On the surface in a way that's good, and it makes people much more politically engaged in la. It's very much in the background. Like, you can go to six events and no one will say anything about politics. Everyone's talking about their Pilates, their Matcha order. And this is not like a gross generalization. This is like my true experience. People do.
- [28:19]
A
Not true.
- [28:20]
B
This is my truth. People are like, oh, my gosh, have you tried this new thing at Erewhon? And that's also not a good thing. But the thing that I have appreciated is that people do not let external things that they don't have direct control over bring them down. And I used to look down on that, but now that I've been here for a while, I'm like, maybe there's. And still, yes, organize with your community, still speak out, but also you can't let it take hold of your day.
- [28:45]
A
Oh, it's like, I find that in New York, politics is our celebrity gossip. If I'm gonna be on. And that's the thing.
- [28:51]
B
It's.
- [28:51]
A
It's very much so that. And it's not that we can change things, though I will say it's like, I went to Zaron's rally last night and it was beautif. And I got to connect with a lot of people. And I am going to be doing some organizing around ICE raids and making sure that people understand their rights and do handing out whistle packets and things like that. But I do feel like when I'm at a party and we're all just talking about, like, Cuomo's misdeeds, I'm like, this is like us talking shit about some celebrity.
- [29:20]
B
Right? Right. No, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.
- [29:23]
A
Talking shit. And it's fun. We're like, fuck that guy.
- [29:27]
B
Yeah. No, there's just such a steep difference between, like, how New York and LA handles politics. Yeah. Let's talk about misinformation. You've done a great job of addressing some of these things, but I want to go one level deeper. So beef tallow. Everyone's talking about beef tallow. I actually had my next door neighbor who's like a very outdoorsy guy. He was like, should I be using beef tallow for my skin? And I was like, what makes you ask that? And he was like, I don't know. I've just been like, I've been getting served ads and, like, I think it seems like it's great. Like, should I use it? And I'm like, like, if you want to, like, but I don't.
- [29:58]
A
Yeah, but beef tallow, okay, so I think beef towel. Listen, I'm French, I'm Italian. They're the ones who brought over cows to this nation. Cows are not from here. So I always cackle whenever somebody's like, back to our ancestral lands. I'm like, ooh, what are we talking about? I think beef towel on its own is a very mid moisturizer, right? It's. It crystallizes really easily. It does not smell good. I've now tried a few beef tallow brands. It makes me a little bit rashy because it's a little bit too heavy. It's high in oleic acid. Not my favorite, but it's not the worst thing you're going to put on your face. I will be the last person to say that. So for me, it's a mid moisturizer. It's akin to pudding. I prefer shea butter, but it's like shea butter or coconut oil on your face.
- [30:42]
B
Right?
- [30:42]
A
It's just like a fat that you're putting on your face. There are more elegant, better designed things because you also want to hydrate your skin. That's why I love a moisturizer. It's an emulsion. You have glycerin, maybe shea butter. You have all these other delicious ingredients in there. The first emulsion ever made was by galen 2000 years ago, and it was olive oil, beeswax, rose water. Like, even. They weren't. Even the ancient Greeks weren't using beef tallow. So.
- [31:10]
B
And it's just beef fat. Like, how is it created?
- [31:13]
A
So basically it's rendered fat. So I know how to make beef tallow because my mother would cook potatoes with it as a child. And so we would do duck fat, which I saw recently as like a skincare solve. And I'm like, we've lost the plot. Duck fat. No, keep that for your frit. Okay. But anyway, so it's just basically rendered fat Usually from like the intestines, maybe sometimes from the meat. But basically you're just pulling all the fat out and then you're rendering it and you're clarifying it. So it's not like in theory it should be okay though. The FDA has been recalling a lot of beef tallow because of contamination. This is my problem with any oil or fat that comes from animals or comes from a living creature is that as demand goes up and there isn't enough supply from these grass fed sources, you start to source from really sketchy areas and sketchy locations. It's like how that whole vital proteins Amazon rainforest scandal happened and nobody talked about it.
- [32:11]
B
Wait, you're gonna have to talk about it now because I'm not aware of the scandal.
- [32:15]
A
I believe it was the Guardian, but they did, this was years ago and. And essentially they were getting their bovine collagen from cows that were being. That were in the deforest Amazon. They were deforesting the Amazon for cattle. The lungs of the planet. Right. And so for me I get really nervous as demand goes up because you cannot do this on a small farm to table scale. These are large industrial agricultural processes. And I have have big questions on sourcing, which is why for dew we stick to plant based ingredients or biotech ingredients. Sometimes we'll use petrolatum or fossil fuel derived ingredients. But again like until fossil fuel use goes down, I think it's bizarre to demonize the byproduct of it. It's a great occlusive, like I just don't get it. And so for me, that part of beef towel, if we're going to be talking about it as a moisturizer, whatever, fine. If you want to use it, try to source it locally because if you're sourcing it from one of these big brands, I have no idea where they're getting it from. And there are recalls happening for contamination safety issues with the U.S. it's like a farm. Yes. Thank you. And the other piece though, is that what I don't like about beef tallow and what I see a lot in the marketing is this whole not from the lab, but from the land. And to me that's fascism. That's a pipeline to fascism. And I made.
- [33:42]
B
I love how extreme you are, Charlotte. That's fascism.
- [33:45]
A
You know what? People aren't extreme enough because everyone is just tiptoeing around the quiet part. And I'm just sitting here and I'm like anti intellectualism and anti science is a pipeline to fascism. And we're in it because we're living in an authoritarian shift in our country, which is horrible for the economy. I'm like, I was a business major, but I also was a poly minor. Big surprise. And so I'm just looking at this and I'm just like shaking. I'm like, my undergrad is like screaming at me right now. And so it's a pipeline and people were pushing back on me so hard that I'm working on this really long post now about. It is not extreme to say that anti intellectualism, anti science, anti experts. That's how fascism thrives, actually.
- [34:31]
B
Absolutely. And to your point about from demonizing things created in a laboratory, it also takes a lot of education to understand that in the process of developing my own fragrance, the Naked Beauty fragrance, it was like learning about bioidentical fragrance notes that you don't need to use a thousand rose petals to get a rose oil. That's something that can now be created because we've come so far and it's actually better and more sustainable for the planet to create synthetic materials. And that's how you know, my fragrance is able to be at Credo Beauty because a lot of the. There was just a lot of thought that went into when to use the real thing, when a synthetic version was actually better for our overall health and the performance of the fragrance. You talked about petrolatum and petroleum jelly. Vaseline. Listen, my daughter has eczema every single day. It's like cream followed by. We use aquaphor instead of Vaseline, but Vaseline I'm a big fan of as well.
- [35:21]
A
Product that's launching in January.
- [35:23]
B
Oh, okay. I'm excited early. Is it because it has petroleum in the. Like why do you think people. Is it as simple as, like they hear petroleum, they think of petrol and they think of gas.
- [35:33]
A
Yeah. Like I've seen brands, like very big brands being like petroleum free and it's in a plastic jar. You're like, wow, like. And that's what I mean where I'm like, this is anti intellectualism right here. This is making people demonize the wrong thing. I agree. The fossil fuel industry out of control. I want it to end. We need, need to shift our energy sources away from fossil fuels. 100% agree. Getting rid of petrol atom is going to actually do nothing for that. And you're actually going to probably use more fossil fuels to help sustain industrial agriculture to then produce plants to get castor, ladum or whatever that you're using. Not to mention the massive environmental impact of, of farming animals.
- [36:23]
B
Yeah.
- [36:24]
A
Not to mention the ethics, but I eat meat, so that would be hypocritical for me to act like that's.
- [36:29]
B
No, I was just gonna say I feel like I. I have to take a step off of my ethical high horse when I recognize that I am a meat eater. But yes. Yeah, understood. Now, microplastics, they're everywhere. They're now finding them, like in fetuses when you're pregnant. They're like, found in the womb. Are microplastics in our skin care? Is this something we should be concerned about? That.
- [36:49]
A
So I just saw the Times came out with a piece about microplastics, and Joyce is going to be doing a really big debunker on it. Just because something as a polymer does not make it a microplastic. But there was a concern with like micro beads that actually were plastic in our skincare and they were going into water supplies. And I think the big thing is, like, the problem is, is actual plastic is degrading and leaching into our waterways. And so for me, that then goes back to packaging.
- [37:15]
B
Yeah.
- [37:15]
A
Or clothing. Right. There's like toys. Like it's. It's not just beauty. But I do. The thing is, I think the concern. Because I'm not an expert in this, so it's hard for me to have an opinion, but I think the concern is, like, we don't know what it does.
- [37:30]
B
Yes, there's a great movie starring Mark Ruffalo, Dark Waters. Have you seen this movie? You need to watch it. Okay. You've seen it?
- [37:38]
A
No. You know, I was in one of the towns. One of the three M towns poisoned one of the wells that I grew up in in.
- [37:45]
B
Oh, my goodness.
- [37:46]
A
Londonderry, New Hampshire.
- [37:48]
B
Wow. Okay, Well, a brief synopsis for our listeners. It's basically a movie about forever chemicals and DuPont and like, before they understood what Forever Chemicals did to us. Okay. And so you were from one of the towns that 3M was.
- [38:01]
A
I looked it up and I found the well that I would go to with my parents was one of the contaminated wells. So it wasn't Londonderry, New Hampshire proper, but it was a town in New Hampshire. And so all of my friends were texting me about dark water and like, throw out your Teflon pans. And I was like, babe, I am like mega dosed with pfas.
- [38:21]
B
It's a great movie for people to watch. Again, not to fear Monger, but just to realize that your best interest is not at the forefront of large corporations minds, which I think we know, but Just to see it on such a massive scale is regulation.
- [38:34]
A
And that's the thing. It's like, I think that people invoke the name of Europe quite a bit. Bit like RFK invokes the name of Europe. And that frustrates me to no end because it's one of the high most. It's a very highly regulated market and there's a lot of rules. And what are they doing here? Getting rid of rules.
- [38:53]
B
Yeah. The pregnant women not taking Tylenol was actually for me, the last straw where I was like, it's. We're so beyond science, we're so beyond rational. It's just. It's dark.
- [39:08]
A
Circumcision causes autism was for me when I was like, if.
- [39:12]
B
How?
- [39:13]
A
Why?
- [39:14]
B
Because of the Tylenol? Yeah, it's just. It just doesn't make sense.
- [39:16]
A
Because of the Tylenol? Exactly. Because it goes back to the Tylenol. I was like, I saw a baby once get wine at a bris. I don't know, it's just crazy.
- [39:25]
B
AI, I want to hear your thoughts about. And I should also be upfront about the fact that, that I have been an early adopter to AI. I taught myself mid Journey. Wow. Like two years ago. I use AI a lot in my creative process. I know that it's not great for the environment, but I am someone who uses AI personally and professionally. But I'm curious as your thoughts on how AI is going to impact the beauty industry over time.
- [39:50]
A
Yeah, I think AI. So just like my general stance on it is that AI can be a force for good if there's regulation and it's subjected to democratic process. I think it's really irresponsible to unleash a tool that can make really convincing deep fakes and then create no rules around it. My energy bill is going through the roof. And one of the reasons, I know there are many, but one of them is that we're getting a lot of data centers in New York and when. When OpenAI says that their mission is to find all the great ways that AI can be used for humanity and then they launch a porn option for Sora too. I'm like, I don't care to pay for someone's porn that they're making. Like, just pay a sex worker, for the love of God, just pay women. Yes, pay anyone. Pay anyone who's working in that industry. Are we so allergic to. To paying humans? And so I think for beauty, what concerns me is the representations and advertisement that's being put out and how unrealistic it is getting. I am seeing brands put out ads that are very realistic with AI and I'm seeing AI slop as well. Just take over everything. Like, my engagement's been down. I've been fighting for engagement and I'm getting. Climbing my way out of holes. But all of the creators that I know are talking about this drop in engagement. It's because we're getting flooded with AI slob.
- [41:26]
B
Absolutely. There's. Yeah, there's an undeniable drop in engagement across platforms. So I take it you do not use AI personally, you don't use ChatGPT?
- [41:34]
A
No, I use subtitle tools, which I gather are like descript. Like on cap. Like I use Cap Cut. And there's. There's like. Like subtitles. I'll use stuff like that. But I don't use it in my creative process. But I think it's because I don't know how. Right. Like I'm not. It's not that I don't think anyone can use it ever. I feel irresponsible how it's being unleashed. I think it's absolutely galling that doctors are being impersonated, actual doctors, and there's no way for them to take down the videos. And so there's videos out there that brands are monetizing and Instagram and YouTube and all these things are like, oh, and it's only until they get a expose in the New York Times they finally take them down. That to me, where AI has the ability to erode our shared reality and if there's no truth, then how do you make a decision? You don't. And that's where we're at right now. And so that's where I get into my dystopian spiral. Not that I don't think AI has great use. Cases like solve cancer, get AI on the case, but that's not what it seems to be is happening.
- [42:41]
B
You know what, what's. It's been helpful for me. You mentioned doctors. I've gotten blood work and very inconsistent advice from doctors on what to do with that blood work and what medication protocol to follow. And I've actually uploaded my blood work to ChatGPT to ask for what are the right questions I should be asking doctors for. And in one case they were like, you should ask for the specific antibody test. And that revealed something.
- [43:02]
A
So for me, it was just like, that is awesome. I was so afraid you were going to upload your test and be like, what should I do? And no, what questions. I think your ability to critical think you know how to critical think because you brought on ChatGPT later in life.
- [43:18]
B
That is true. If I had CHAT GPT my freshman year of Stanford, there is no way. And I was an English major, there's no way I would have read all of those books. There's just no way. I just would have been like, like what happens in Hamlet and why should I care? Like, I just.
- [43:30]
A
Your networks would not be as strong as they are now because that seems like a really brilliant way to use ChatGPT. I don't know if that's everyone's personal experience. Like, you should teach lessons.
- [43:43]
B
Yes, maybe I'll teach like a little prompting how to prompt ChatGPT to increase your life quality.
- [43:48]
A
It hallucinates and that it hallucinates sycophantic. And so just. You can't trust it. So, so smart to be like, ask your doctor these questions versus what do I do? Like, I've been seeing people upload their skincare into ChatGPT and I'm seeing them put things together and I'm like, that's a contraindication you're not supposed to put together.
- [44:07]
B
Yes, yes, I would. Yeah. I think it's much better to say, and I think people also get nervous in doctor's offices. But to be like, hey, I have an appointment with my dermatologist. I've been experiencing these things. You can ramble. I love using voice. You can ramble all of the things you're experiencing. Can you create three or four coherent questions to ask in my appointment to my dermatologist that way versus make a skincare routine for me? Exactly. Yes. Okay. DIY skincare. That was DIY Skincare and hair care was my entry point into the beauty industry. Making my own facial oils, my own scrubs, which I still love to do when I have time. But then some people are making like sunscreen at home, which is. Is scary. What's on the table when it comes to making your own products and what's something that you should just leave to the professionals?
- [44:53]
A
I think you just said it. Moisture face oils. You want. You have a tolerance to essential oils and you want to make a little body oil. I don't have a problem with that. Just dilute this stuff because it's quite strong. You can give yourself a chemical burn from essential oils. I think scrubs are really fun. I use my leftover rice water because I rinse rice. Right? And you rinse rice before you cook it. That rice water. Do a little rinse with your hair in the shower with that. Save that you can't save it for long. You have to do it that night because it can grow bacteria. But that will make your hair like actually like really nice and smooth. It's amazing. I see people doing honey masks and even olive oil. Like in my family, like on the Italian side, they were coating themselves in olive oil and like they had great skin. You know what I mean? It's just, I think everything depends. But I personally do it probably not. I think things that are moisturizing or like body scrubs, not face scrubs, body scrubs, totally fine. But whenever I see somebody making a sunscreen, like I put 20% zinc. I was at a sunscreen symposium. The problem with zinc is that it's so hard to get an even dispersion of it that it requires like deep levels of chemistry to end up getting like even an SPF of like 20. And so zinc is incredibly challenging to formulate with. It's why almost all brands include hidden chemical boosters like butyl, octal, salicylate. Very few mineral sunscreens are true mineral sunscreens because they need to boost that SPF value and that, that overall sun protection. And so for me, anything that's like protecting your skin. If you're trying to treat your hyperpigmentation, stuff like that. See people try to make chemical peels at home. Don't do that.
- [46:28]
B
That's scary.
- [46:29]
A
Don't do that. And oh, I'm going to use like an orange on my face. Face, eat it. Probably better for your skin than applying it on your face because also if you put citrus on your face and then you go in the sun, you can actually get blisters, especially if you're not wearing sunscreen. And so for me, anything that's like moisturizing or like spa y, like scent oriented, have fun, crack at it.
- [46:51]
B
And. But even that, it's test and learn because I, I love bergamot. I love the way it smells. And I remember I used, I made a body oil with it and I got like a sun, I got, yeah, sunburn. And then I learned that that specific essential oil makes your skin more sensitive.
- [47:05]
A
It's a photosensitive ingredient. So there are like photosensitizers which basically like amplify under the sun.
- [47:11]
B
Yes. So just do your research. Okay, I'm going to take you through a lightning round of. I'm going to pretend to be someone that's not as informed as you are and I'm going to ask you a specific question and you give me your best response to this person. Okay, person A. I'm 21. I really want to start preventative Botox, Charlotte. Because I don't want to have wrinkles, and I feel like I should just start now so that I never have wrinkles and never age. Should I start?
- [47:34]
A
You're going to age, and it's so cool, and it's so great. And also preventative. Botox to me is a myth. You might prevent a little bit of something. But I got Botox at 38 with deeper wrinkles, and they're completely gone. I've seen women in their 50s get Botox. Save your money. Go on a vacation, maybe contribute to your 401k. I do think that beauty is so expensive and it's a trap. Right? Like, we make our own money now, and we're not entrapped by our husbands. So now we're entrapped by these oppressive beauty standards. Save your money.
- [48:14]
B
My name is Ben. I'm just a guy. Our ancestors never used sunscreen, so why should I wear sunscreen?
- [48:22]
A
Okay, Ben, if your Last name is McFadden, respectfully, you lived in a place where the UV index was like negative two the entire year. So if you live in Florida, get the damn sunscreen on. I don't believe you. Now, it's also important to remember that ochre, the color ochre, like that, that.
- [48:39]
B
Like rich red clay material that's used.
- [48:42]
A
As sunscreen in Africa. Yes. Furthermore, as a French Italian person, I was a peasant definitely in the Middle Ages. So if we didn't. If I didn't die in childhood, which would have been likely, I would have probably died in childbirth because I'm a woman or at the stake for being a witch. And how much clothing were they wearing? An obscene amount of clothing. And so this idea that our ancestors didn't wear sunscreen is just. To me, again, it's anti intellectual because if you just think about it, it makes no sense, especially if you're my pantone, which is very Casper adjacent. We did not live where the UV index was high. We didn't. So it doesn't even make sense. Like, nobody is supposed to be living in America other than Native Americans. And their skin tone was a little bit different, I would say. And it's like they still wore protective clothing. It's like, just, let's use our noggins. Let's build those neural networks.
- [49:43]
B
I guess in event break. I'm breaking character for a moment, but just even realizing that in parts of. Of Africa and the Middle east and even in Spain, where I just was, people don't go out during the hottest part of the day. It's like the hottest part of the day in the summer. So you go inside, you're not out, you're not doing the most at one o' clock in the afternoon.
- [49:59]
A
Exactly. And my grandmother's from the north of France, which is basically like Ireland or like a very chilly Germany. And I remember because she's the most gorgeous skin and I've never seen her in the sun. And I asked her once, I was like, why don't you go in the sun? And she's like, burn, which means I'm allergic. And I was like, what a Just common sense way to look at it.
- [50:20]
B
Yeah.
- [50:20]
A
And she's like, I'm from the north. We got pushed down to the south by the Germans in World War I. And so I'm not supposed. It's too hot. She says too much. And it's not even that hot where she is in France. It's like she's like, not from here. Yeah. I was like, I love this logic night. She's 94, sharp as attack.
- [50:38]
B
Perfect logic. Okay. My last, the last person I'm embodying, her name is Vivian. Okay, I'm Vivian now. So, Charlotte, I hear you talking about skincare, but we all know the truth of the matter is. And if you look at celebrities, the only way to really change your skin is by doing laser treatments and injections. Like, skin care is like what we peddle to people to make them think they can change their skin. But we both know that you need very expensive treatments to really make a difference.
- [51:04]
A
Okay, so the way I liken this is if you go, Vivian, I hear you, I love a laser. I'm with you. If you don't practice consistent skincare, which doesn't have to be complicated. I do think people overcomplicate skincare. I agree with you there. But basic things like cleanser, moisturizer, sunscreen, a retinol, some sort of a vitamin C. It's like going to a trainer like once a quarter and expecting that to change your body, like a really expensive trainer, or even going once a month, it's not going to change your body. You need to be going consistently in order to see results. And so you consistently need to take care of your skin. It's like an organ. You don't take a supplement once a month or you don't go to a doctor once every 10 years. And being like, that's got it covered, you need to do. It's a daily practice. And so it's about While I agree, lasers and Botox and all. Yeah. It'll make your skin look very different if you're not doing that daily practice. It's actually a waste of money.
- [52:02]
B
Yeah, perfect response. You handled all three of those uninformed characters very well.
- [52:07]
A
Never. I've never ever had those questions before in my life.
- [52:11]
B
Now for laser, what laser do you like?
- [52:15]
A
So I'm actually a laser Genesis girly. I like a low downtime and I feel like you could probably relate to this. Like we have to be on camera a lot, so it's very rare that I can get like an actual intense laser. I got Halo two years ago. Wow, that was intense. But it worked. It was really a gorgeous result. But I don't know if I'll have time to ever do that again.
- [52:33]
B
As someone with melanin, I am just so truly terrified of lasers that were not created with dark skin in mind that I'm just like, it's not worth. And I'm sure. Have you seen all of this drama about micro needling and how I actually.
- [52:46]
A
Had a derm scare me off of that years ago and was like, what are you tightening? There's nothing preventative about this. She's like, just get micro needling. Like regular micro needling. Which is actually what I recommend. I don't know what you thing is for you, it's. I don't know what you would be looking for because you have such great, great or texture. So I'm not really sure what you'd be going after with it. But it is like they are effective. But yeah, the radio frequency thing does it. Lo and behold, it does actually have risk.
- [53:16]
B
Yes. And do you do that? Do you do the at home LED treatments, the face masks, all of those things? What's your recommendation?
- [53:24]
A
So if you don't use it it almost every day, it's not really worth it because these things only work when you're consistent. And even then it's like define work. Right. I think that so many people are expecting to see a facelift from a device that costs $400. And I'm like, listen, it's a, it's an expensive device. But if you think about it, the cost per use over a year is actually not that. These companies are not rolling in dough unless if they're selling a huge amount. And so I like the shark beauty mask because it's a great price point. It's $350. But then I also love body mask because it has like a very specific wavelength of light that's more for Collagen, in theory, because it's not. None of this is really fully proven out, but it does. I do find that when I use it, like, my skin looks like tighter.
- [54:10]
B
Oh, okay. I don't know if that's what I.
- [54:11]
A
Mean, but I know when you're like, your skin is like that texture, like, ding.
- [54:15]
B
Yes. And to the point about AI filters, I will be the first to admit when I go on TikTok and do my little video, I do not turn off that filter. I'm like, hey, hey, it's there. I look great. I'm not turning it off. If I was doing a makeup tutorial, though, I would definitely take it off. But, yeah, all of these, like, little, tiny.
- [54:32]
A
In real life, you are a filter.
- [54:34]
B
My. Thank you. Thank you. You've also just brought up something else for me. I think that feeling beautiful and believing that you're beautiful is more valuable than being beautiful. Oh, yeah, right.
- [54:49]
A
I think I will have won when I'm neutral, actually. Exhausting to be positive about things sometimes, as I'm sure you can tell from my personality. But I think for me, being. Feeling beautiful is actually about feeling comfortable in my own, like, it's like feeling at ease and so. And not feeling like I need to put on any sort of errors because I'm just doing dragons. I did New England girly who can't afford her energy bill drag for you on this beautiful. I'm wearing a sweater with a scarf. And so it's all drag, right? And so.
- [55:29]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's that famous RuPaul quote. He says, we're all born naked and the rest is just drag.
- [55:34]
A
Which is exactly one of the best quotes ever.
- [55:37]
B
I can't let you go without hearing your favorite products right now. I think we. We know the skincare products from the Jew that you talk about out all the time. I'm curious about your, like, makeup products and any fragrance that you love.
- [55:49]
A
So fragrances. I actually, Jordan Samuel just came out with a fragrance that. It's like this bergamot face a little dirty. I like a dirty fragrance. I like something like a little bit of grit to it, a little grip, like tobacco. Fig leather. Love anything in that kind of realm. I think it's. It smells so good. I've been carrying it around everywhere. And then I have this tambourine fragrance that I got in Seoul, which is amazing. I've been really impressed with K Beauty makeup. I'm going to be honest.
- [56:21]
B
Put me on. Put me on. What are the brands?
- [56:23]
A
It's so can make. Makes these Very thin liners. But so does so and so liners but can make makes these super thin liners which are amazing when you want to do a nice little cut cat eye though I did my Danessa Myricks color fix is like a staple in my routine.
- [56:40]
B
Yes. Okay. So you have skills because that takes a lot of precision to use those color fits fix pots and like the thin. I can't do that.
- [56:47]
A
I love Danessa so much. I feel like she. I need to make a history of with those color fix products because they're truly the most versatile. Like you can use as a bronzer. You can use it as an eye product. It's so good. Like those line. Oh, it's so good. And then I've been loving the Kulfi and violette lip stains. I find that I don't have lip filler and I'm finding it's like hurting my lip game. Because a lot of these products only work on people with either big lips lips or people that don't have they're like wrinkly, like non filled lips. And it's like I have a smaller mouth and I'm getting older and so I am losing volume. And like a lot of these products just like look like I know for the, for the butt, I'm like, I hate it.
- [57:32]
B
For the first time in my life last month I looked at myself when I was smiling and like my upper lip was disappearing and I was like, I could do with a little upper lip filler. But I'm again, that's like an area that I'm just like, do you really want to just start doing that and having to maintain it and then it's just a thing and then it just goes too far. So I'm like, pause on that. Your lips are fine.
- [57:50]
A
Just they're beautiful. I'm still holding out hope I'm going to be cast in a time period drama. Right? I'm like, maybe like I'm. I'm available. And so yeah, those are some of my favorites. What else? Oh, the Clio Kill Lash has been an amazing mascara from K Beauty. Their mascaras, I find they hold a curl really well.
- [58:11]
B
Nice. Okay, I'm gonna have to start getting into more of the K beauty makeup products. And then a question.
- [58:16]
A
I like, I like the K beauty makeup more than the skincare.
- [58:18]
B
Ooh, that now that is a hot take. That is a hot take Care.
- [58:23]
A
Most of the skincare is fine. Like I love Iope. It's really beautifully formulated products, but expensive. I find most K Beauty products like, for people who just don't really want very, like, active products. Products are like, they have great moisturizers and stuff, but, like, it's very basic skincare and it's reflected in the price.
- [58:42]
B
Yes, yes.
- [58:44]
A
Then they're good. So don't run around Internet thinking, I don't love K beauty. It's fantastic, particularly the sunscreen, but it's not that exciting for somebody who is in their late 30s.
- [58:54]
B
Yes. Okay, I'm winding down to my final two questions. The final question, which, you know, because you've been on Nikki before, I feel like we've answered that. I want to go deeper. But before we get to that, that I've been asking really busy women that do a lot of stuff. How do you stay grounded? How do you stay calm? How do you just like. I find that really ambitious people have a hard time relaxing. How do you do it?
- [59:15]
A
Can I be really honest with you? So I did ketamine therapy recently, and that actually really helped. I have deep anxiety. I think anyone who started a business does.
- [59:26]
B
How does deep anxiety manifest itself for you? Are you waking up in the middle of the night?
- [59:31]
A
Hyper productivity. I'm extremely productive. Rather than dealing with my anxiety. I'll edit a video, I'll write an email, I'll write a script, I'll write an article. It's just like, you're constantly doing so you never actually process. And so I don't think I fully understood how anxious I was until around our Sephora launch and we were going out of stock on everything. And I was like, this is not healthy. I lost, like, £20. It was like. It was really intense for me. And I'm not great at taking care of myself. I think it's okay to say that when you start a business, especially at this scale, it's really hard too. Now I work out at least three times a week with weights. I find that to be so important for my lower back and my brain.
- [60:09]
B
Good for you.
- [60:10]
A
Therapist with ketamine.
- [60:13]
B
Wow.
- [60:14]
A
Therapist. And then I do ketamine therapy. And that is helping me understand why I am the way I am. And it's okay. I don't. Some parts should change and some parts should not. And so I think that's been really very helpful from a mental health. Mental health perspective because, like, I've tried meditation, I've tried sound baths. I've tried all that. Like, I don't even have time for a massage. And I think that those things are very fleeting. They feel really good and indulgent in the moment. And you should do them, but they're not. I didn't find they were doing the actual like spiritual work. And so that spiritual work for me, I apparently need to go into a K hole with a professional.
- [60:56]
B
Charlotte, I love it. Thank you for the transparency there. I think it's great that you found something that works for you because I definitely empathize with the hyper productivity. And the idea of doing a silent meditation retreat is actually my worst nightmare. That is the fact that people pay to do that. I'm like, I would rather do literally anything else. Okay, final question, which is when do you feel most beautiful? And I loved what you said about ease is let's talk about it more.
- [61:24]
A
So I feel most beautiful. My husband be so corny, but it's true. So when I wake up on the weekends with my boyfriend and like we're just like cuddling and loving on each other. It's just like a beautiful moment. And that's when I'm like most comfortable.
- [61:41]
B
Shout out to him. That's great.
- [61:42]
A
He always wants me to be wearing. He's always like, whenever I get a zit, he's like, do you get an injection there? And I'm like, no, I just got a zit. Like my skin's too perfect sometimes. But now just cuddling with him in the morning, it's amazing.
- [61:56]
B
Yeah. And it's amazing how the right partner can make you feel beautiful. Yeah.
- [62:01]
A
Because it's like he never really talks about how I look. He's constantly talking about the things I do, which is like actually what matters. It's not what you say, it's not how you present. It's who you are. And finding somebody that can recognize that is, I think very important for mental health as well.
- [62:19]
B
Beautiful. Charlotte, thank you so much for gracing naked beauty again. This is so wonderful.
- [62:25]
A
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