A (2:25)

What were her insights? What did she share about customer?

B (2:28)

I mean, we're really new. We just launched in all stores.

A (2:31)

Yeah.

B (2:31)

This week. So we were in 360 when we launched, and now they've rolled us out to all doors. So, yeah, everyone's really excited. There's not that many acne brands, and I say it in parentheses, right. Which really focus narrow and deep on problematic skin. So it's. It's exciting for them.

A (2:47)

Yeah. We had Julie shot on the podcast and she talked about Starface, which I feel like to see a brand like that where you can embrace your acne. Right. Because back in my day, we just put concealer over our acne, which is, like, horrific now thinking about it.

B (3:01)

I know, and I love what Julie's doing over at Starface. You know, I think our customer is a little different. And the reason why Starface is like, her customer is really like, they own their acne. Right.

A (3:11)

They're like 12 years old.

B (3:13)

Amazing patches.

A (3:14)

Yeah.

B (3:14)

It's such a moment. Whereas our clientele is a little older. So what we've realized at the studio, our demographic is around 25 onwards, and acne is not sexy at all. And people in New York do not want to deal with it. They want it to be gone and they don't want to talk about it anymore. And so I found there's a really interesting conversation online where you have these brands and, like, acne influencers in parentheses, you know, talking about, it's okay, it's okay to have acne, and, yeah, it is okay. And I like that message for a younger demographic, but for someone 25 and onwards, they don't want acne. They want to get rid of it. They want products that work and they want to maintain it and just be done and not make it their whole identity. So that's the difference.

A (3:57)

Yes.

B (3:57)

So for us, it's like, yeah, we're going to get you to where you want to be. We're going to maintain it, and it's gone.

A (4:01)

Is acne something you ever struggled with growing up?

B (4:04)

Yeah, I had acne when I was a teenager, postpartum. We were talking about, you know, Having babies earlier, I really struggled, like, hormonal acne, for sure. So I know how difficult it can be for people. And then we also have the studio.

A (4:17)

Right.

B (4:18)

So the studio, we see around 650 people a month, which is insane. So many people.

A (4:22)

You've had your hands on a lot of people's faces.

B (4:25)

Right. And so we have a team of amazing estheticians who work there. We have eight people who work there right now. And what I always explain, you know, there's a lot of people who are coming to this from, like, a very personal lens. I have that personal lens, but I also have this collective knowledge from all these people that we see every month that is truly our R and D department. So I think that that's what sets us apart from other people. We have these, like, client experiences, working with our product lines.

A (4:52)

The best focus group you could ask for.

B (4:54)

Exactly.

A (4:55)

Now it's great. You grew up in South Wales.

B (4:57)

I did.

A (4:57)

Did you feel beautiful growing up? Paint the picture. Like, what was. What was South Wales giving?

B (5:03)

You know, what's so interesting is, like, I knew from a very early age I didn't want to be in Wales.

A (5:10)

Really?

B (5:11)

Yeah. It's really crazy. And I've, like, always had this, like, longing to be somewhere else.

A (5:16)

Somewhere else.

B (5:17)

Yeah. And I think, you know, I'm also 42, so I grew up, like, early on. Like, we didn't have the Internet. I know that sounds so crazy to experience. Like, I didn't have Internet until I was 17 or 18 years old.

A (5:30)

Yeah.

B (5:30)

So when I think about that, like, oh, my gosh. So, like, we were looking at magazines.

A (5:34)

Who's from South Wales? I feel like there are famous people from South Wales.

B (5:36)

Catherine Zeta Jones is from South Wales.

A (5:38)

Okay. Fab.

B (5:39)

Zeta Jones.

A (5:40)

Okay.

B (5:41)

Corgis.

A (5:43)

The dogs.

B (5:44)

Our greatest export. That's kind of it.

A (5:47)

Where's Kate Moss from?

B (5:48)

Kate Moss is from Essex.

A (5:49)

Essex.

B (5:50)

Ok. Catherine Zeta Jones and Tom Jones. Dylan Thomas. The poet.

A (5:54)

Okay. Not familiar, but you knew you wanted to. I was just like, you wanted to be.

B (5:59)

I gotta get out of here.

A (6:00)

And you wanted to be in America.

B (6:01)

I didn't know if I wanted to be in America. I loved going to London. Like, going to the museums in London with my parents. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is so cool. Like, I just needed, like, something else, like, new Newport. I grew up in Newport, which is, like, really cool music scene. Like, they obviously say it would be like, the Seattle of the uk. Like, all the bands will come to, like, Wales first. So we'd have, like, this Influx of, like, cool bands come in. I'd be like, wait, you look so much cooler than any of us. Like, I want to. I want to go where you're going, you know? So I always knew I wanted to move away. I went to college when I was 17 to Bristol, which is, like, not far from Wales.

A (6:37)

I know, I know. Bristol, right?

B (6:38)

So I went to college in Bristol. I did fashion design.

A (6:41)

Yes.

B (6:41)

I thought I was going to be a fashion designer. Like, that was, like, my focus. And I became a fashion designer.

A (6:47)

And then you went to Ohio, which is probably the least glamorous part of America.

B (6:52)

My first job ever was designing underwear for Abercrombie.

A (6:55)

Abercrombie and Fitch. I know.

B (6:57)

And they had emailed me as I was graduating. They'd seen my project on wgsn. Do you remember that website?

A (7:03)

Oh, yeah.

B (7:03)

World Global Style Network. It was, like, the only place you could see Runway pictures. Like, there was no social media then.

A (7:10)

Right.

B (7:11)

So they did a project, or they showed my project for London Graduate Fashion Week. And someone from Abercrombie saw it and they emailed me and they were like, we want to interview you. Flew me out to Ohio. I was 20 years old at this point. And what an opportunity. Like, first of all, I was in the uk. Like, fashion. Like, fashion graduates didn't get jobs unless you were, like, gonna do an unpaid internship. And I was like, yeah, I gotta do this. So I moved to Ohio.

A (7:35)

Wow. So what year? Because this was probably when Abercrombie was at its peak.

B (7:38)

Peak. Abercrombie peak, yes. And I wanna. I want people to understand the, like, juxtaposition of what I looked like when I worked at Abercrombie. I was so goth. I had no eyebrows, I had black hair, loads of tattoos and piercings, and I was designing underwear for, like, Holl. It was amazing. It was really cool. And, you know, I think for me, it was great because I really understood, like, America, like, middle America.

A (8:01)

Right. The real America, not the coastal enclaves.

B (8:04)

That we're all really familiar with. But it was. It was really cool. And I have so many friends who've, like, came from that path.

A (8:09)

Right. Was it a culture shock? A little bit.

B (8:10)

Massive. Massively. I remember crying in a Kroger because I couldn't find coriander. And I was like, what's coriander? Like, oh, my God. I was like, no, it's cilantro. So, like, I know that sounds. That's a silly example, but, like, so.

A (8:26)

Many things like that, even calling it underwear in the uk, they say Pants, right?

B (8:29)

Yeah.

A (8:30)

I can remember when I lived in London, going into a shop and saying like, where are your pants? And they looked at me like, what? And they were like, we don't sell pants here. And I was like, what? And then I realized, okay, it's trousers is what you're supposed to say.

B (8:41)

Yeah. Or someone always laughed when I was like, oh, yeah, your swimming costume.

A (8:45)

Yeah, that's very. Yeah, it's not a bathing suit, it's.

B (8:48)

A swimming costume, which is actually very funny. When. Now I've been here 20 years. Yeah, right, A swimming costume. So, yeah, it was really. It was a culture shock.

A (8:56)

But, you know, it's so interesting that you have this. This background as a fashion designer, because when I got your latest mailer with the incredible. Is it a rugby shirt?

B (9:05)

Yes.

A (9:05)

First of all, the way that. The way that's a staple in my wardrobe now, it's so well done. And, you know, brands send merch, and it's usually like just a generic sweatshirt or sometimes it'll be like a hat. Like, I don't know. It's never anything that you really want to wear.

B (9:20)

Right.

A (9:20)

And then I got your, like, how you describe it. So it's like a striped rugby shirt.

B (9:24)

Yeah, like a polo shirt. Rugby shirt with a little chain embroidery, which is like, nice quality. You know, we got them done at Arena Embroidery. Just very cool embroidery store. Thank you, Rocco. And so, yeah, for me, it's like my fashion background comes in handy all the time.

A (9:39)

Yes, yes.

B (9:40)

You know, and I think that just designing stuff, like, it's so funny to be back to product because when I quit fashion and I went into beauty, I was like, I'm never designing anything ever again. Like, I'm here for service. I'm gonna take care of people. So excited. And so when I started thinking about the line, it was like, oh, God, here we go again. You know, But I love it. I can't get. I can't get away from it.

A (10:03)

And you have this 15 year history as a handbag designer, which actually, I want to ask you, what. What. What do you think? What are good handbags now that are not crazily expensive?

B (10:14)

Because that's an amazing question. The prices are just, well, Y2K it. Bags will never be replicated in this economy ever again. Like, I have a Chloe Paddington hobo. Of course my bag is deep. I have a really deep.

A (10:28)

I'm jealous you still have your Paddington.

B (10:30)

And, you know, it's so heavy. Like, yeah, that's going to get frigging beside us from using It. You know, like. But those bags were, like, 600 bucks.

A (10:38)

Oh, yeah. No, they weren't.

B (10:40)

At the time, it was expensive, but, like. Yeah. I mean, how much is a bag these days? 3,4k?

A (10:46)

I can't.

B (10:46)

I can't bring myself to do. I walk around with a bagu.

A (10:49)

You know, Can I tell you, you see me, I have my little Simone Rocha shopping bag and then my. My Bottega Jody bag that I got three years ago and literally wear every single day. It's.

B (10:58)

It's hard to make that investment.

A (10:59)

Can I tell you what I think it is? I think it's because we're moms and we have kids, and for me, I'm always calculating how many hours of, like, childcare that could be.

B (11:06)

Yes. You know, I'm just like, what snacks you need, Right? Yeah. Where's your wet wipes going? Yeah. Oh, and then how much you're spending on it, too.

A (11:13)

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, no. Yeah, it's the price. It's the price. I'm just, like, the amount of money that I would have to spend. Spend. To, like, justify this bag. It's just carrying my stuff. It's not that important.

B (11:22)

I think also, working in fashion, you kind of, like, drink the Kool Aid. So I'd go on these inspiration trips and be like, oh, God, I've spent, like, 20k on samples for work. What's 2k on myself? You know? And then. Yeah, it's. It's gross. So I'm. I'm with you. I. I struggle with it, too.

A (11:37)

Yes. So what made you fall in love with beauty? Because you were in fashion.

B (11:41)

I was in fashion. I've always loved beauty. I always. So I love. I loved going in the hair salons and boots. Like, boots was like, our, like, drugstore in the uk. I would, like. Nothing would make me happier than coming home with, like, ten pounds worth of, like, boots. Goodies. When I was little, I was like, oh, my gosh. I was the Avon girl. And when I started working at Michael Kors, they realized it was cheaper and faster to send a design team to Seoul every 12 weeks to approve samples than it was to FedEx them.

A (12:12)

Wow. So you got to go to Korea like, four times a year.

B (12:16)

Four or five times a year.

A (12:17)

Oh, I'm so jealous.

B (12:18)

And I did that for years.

A (12:19)

I would have never left.

B (12:20)

So, I mean, what was amazing to me when I went was that the difference between products and then also services was so different.

A (12:28)

Yes.

B (12:28)

Back in the day. Right. And I'm talking, like, 2011.

A (12:31)

Yeah. But even now, today, we just had Vanessa Lee on the podcast Vanessa. We love Vanessa. And what she shared with us is that she did an estimation. She thinks that Korea is about 13 years. I think she said it was between 11 and 13 years ahead of us. In terms of skincare, I deeply agree.

B (12:47)

Yeah, deeply.

A (12:48)

It's like traveling into the future.

B (12:49)

Well, I used to come back with sheet masks when I used to start, when I started going, and people were like, what on earth is this? That's crazy. And now you can get them in Target, you know. So the facial treatments I started getting in Seoul, when I think about, like, what Sephora was looking like 15, 16 years ago, skincare was always an afterthought. There was a lot of color brands. There was a lot of fragrance, hair care, nails, brows. Brows were really big 15 years ago. And then all. And skincare was kind of just like, there wasn't that mastige market there. And so that's what I was really introduced to in Korea. And, you know, the. The treatments. Bliss Bar was like the spot in New York then.

A (13:26)

Yes, I remember.

B (13:27)

Still love it. But I would always go to Bliss, get a facial, and always be told, like, don't talk like you're going to have your products at the end and we'll talk about, like, what we did. And I was always like, I want to know what you're doing right now. Like, I wanted to talk through my treatment. So when I would get them in Seoul, even though I was in Seoul, I would learn more about my skin in these treatments than I would in these relaxing sensorial facials. So I was always like, there's a. There's a mess over here. So I started thinking about. So first of all, I got my green card, thank goodness. Because that meant that I wasn't tied to a job.

A (14:00)

Ah.

B (14:00)

And so I was like, I'm gonna retrain as a facialist. And I don't know what I'm gonna do with that at all. But I want to work in beauty, and if I'm gonna work in beauty, I need to start from the beginning. So I started going on the weekends. I got my graduation over a year. This was still while I was working full time in fashion. And then I was like, okay, well, now what? Like, am I gonna go and work in brand, or am I gonna work for publication? Like, all this stuff. I started giving my friends facials. And I also, like, instantly had this following, but it was from the fashion set. Everyone's like, I want a facial. I want a facial.

A (14:33)

Interesting. And that's probably how you got mentioned in so many, like, articles and into the gloss and.

B (14:38)

All right, so I. I did facials. I want to say I did facials for free for, like, eight months. I didn't charge anyone because I was like, I want to practice on you. I want to, like, learn about your skin. I realized that I was in deep with it because I was getting fully booked on the weekends after. After work. I was, like, doing research while I was in Seoul with Michael Kors. I was like, I gotta, like, figure out what I want to do. I quit my job, and I immediately started working for a dermatologist. I was like, okay, well, now I've got to keep the lights on and get an actual wage, but I want to still learn. And that's when I really started getting into problematic skin. I still work at Central Aesthetic. I went there one day a week, which is bonkers. But it's. It's really important to me because I. I think I learned so much from other estheticians, but also doctors, like the way that people treat acne and problematic skin.

A (15:26)

There's something I want to touch on. You've talked about doing this for free, and I think that one of the things that I always think about when people are trying to figure out what's my passion, what am I meant to do, what am I. How do I link what I make money with with what my true passion is? And I feel like the thing that you're meant to do is actually the thing that you would do for free. Like, the thing you would do for free is what you're supposed to do for money.

B (15:46)

It's so, so true. I am so deeply obsessed with what I do every single day. I love working with clients.

A (15:54)

I.

B (15:54)

People are surprised that I still see clients. I still see clients one or two days a week. It's really important.

A (15:59)

Yeah.

B (16:00)

My team are like, are you crazy? Like, I'm like, yeah, I need to literally see. Like, that's how I workshop things.

A (16:06)

Right?

B (16:06)

So it's really important to me, and I love it so, so much.

A (16:09)

And I think more people should pay attention to the things that they love. I think that there's often this feeling like, okay, I love doing this, but it's just for fun. It can't actually be my job. You left a field that you were successful in. You had blogged a decade plus in that field, but you said, I love this thing. I'm gonna walk away from my fashion career and just start over from zero, from scratch.

B (16:28)

And it was scary. I'm not gonna lie. It wasn't easy. I didn't have kids at that point, which was great. I did get really very pregnant with my son maybe three months after quitting my job was like, well, I don't have health insurance anymore. We're gonna figure this out. You know? So that was also, like, a pressure to make things work too. I think you have to make yourself in these uncomfortable situations to see if it's worth doing or not. Right. So. But, yeah, it worked out. It worked out.

A (16:54)

Yes. So one of the things that you say in your studio space, you say, this is not a spa.

B (16:59)

Yes.

A (17:00)

Why is that?

B (17:00)

It's not a spa. And it's funny because now we're in Sephora with the product line. I have to message it even more because I think some people come in expecting one thing and then being shocked when they're not given a robe, given a waterfall sound in the back, like a facial massage and a neck rub. Like what? Our goal is to get you to the best skin of your life.

A (17:24)

Right.

B (17:24)

We're gonna solve what is going on, whether it's acne or, you know, inflammation, and go from there.

A (17:31)

So take me through. If I went to Sophie Pavitt's studio to get a facial, what would the experience be?

B (17:36)

So you come into the room, and we've just relocated. So actually, the space is beautiful. It's not like bare bones or anything. You're going to be in a room, and your esthetician is going to lay you down and inspect your face. We're going to cleanse you. We're going to figure out what's going on, what are your skin concerns? We're going to have a dialogue throughout this treatment. We're going to make sure that the treatment that you picked is the right treatment for you, and then we're going to customize it to suit your needs.

A (17:58)

Question for you. What do most. I'm going to use 30s. I'll use my age group. What do most women in their 30s say are their skin concerns?

B (18:07)

Well, for me, mostly it's breakouts. Acne, perioral dermatitis.

A (18:11)

Oh, the worst.

B (18:13)

Aging. Like, you know, fine lines, wrinkles, sun damage. Yeah, those are kind of the. The four main ones, I would say.

A (18:20)

Okay. Okay. So, okay, I wanted. I want to dive deeper into acne. What is acne, exactly? What is happening when we get a breakout?

B (18:29)

Okay. I have a really easy, not too short explanation, but I'm going to try and make it really fast for you. The too long didn't read there's three things that have to align for you to get a breakout. And I call it the chain of events. The first one is an overshadowing of skin cells. Now that could be because you're not exfoliating enough. It could be that you're naturally predisposed to shedding faster, which 40% of the population are. It could be that you have a lot of dead cell buildup and you need to get rid of it. But that dead skin is sticking to the pore. It's causing a layer on the skin and nothing is penetrating or working correctly. That's number one. Number two is oil production. Oil production is environmental. It's where you live. It's whether you're stressed out, it's whether you eat certain foods, if you're on certain medication. All those things can ramp up your oil production. When your oil production is high and it goes into a pore that has a lot of dead cells in, those things combine, they become sticky like a little plug in the pore. That doesn't cause a breakout, that causes congestion or causes the breakout. The inflammatory acne of C. Acnes bacteria. And everyone has it on their skin. It's part of our microbio. The reason why it gets crazy is if it has a food source and that dead skin and oil, it's his favorite thing to eat. So what you're trying to do is figuring out what part of the chain of event you want to attack first. And when you go to the derm, they try and attack 2 and 3 first. They try and put you on low dose medications to bring down your oil production. So things like birth control, spironolactone, in big cases, Accutane, or they put you on low dose antibiotics to kill the bacteria. Clindamycin, doxycycline. And it works as a band aid. It stops the that chain of events. The best way to clear your acne is to focus on Stripe 1, which is overshadowing of skin cells. What are you doing to get rid of them? How are you helping your body exfoliate them correctly. And it's low and slow. Gentle exfoliation, that's it.

A (20:16)

Okay. Hence it's not hard. Hence the mandelic acid serum, which I did a mandelic acid facial at one one one Skin on Harley street. And I had a chance to meet Dr. Yannis and he was like, this is my face favorite facial. Because he's like, there's no recovery time. It's great for everyone. And just for me, as a black woman, anytime I'm going to get anything done to my face. I'm just like. If I leave here with hyperpigmentation 100%, I am like, yeah, you have to be super careful. Yeah, I'm super. I haven't done any lasers or anything because I'm just. And I know that there are lasers that people. That people of color swear by and say safe and gentle and effective. I haven't gone that route yet, but I just love mandelic acid as an ingredient.

B (20:56)

So, you know, I love it too. And it's the largest molecule size in the aha family. You have glycolic and lactic. Right. Lactic is in the middle. Glycolic is the smallest molecule, so it penetrates really fast and causes a lot of irritation. It can cause hyperpigmentation, too. Mandelic sits on the surface of the skin, so it really helps brighten, but it also kills bacteria and it gently exfoliates without that irritation. So it's amazing. The reason why people don't use it predominantly as one singular acid in a product is multiple of reasons. Number one, it's really gentle. And we're also obsessed with that. Like, instant results that.

A (21:29)

The tingling, stinging.

B (21:31)

Hello. Perioral dermatitis. This is why everybody has it.

A (21:34)

Perioreal dermatitis. We should explain what it is because I've. I've had it once. I'm going to tell you how I got it and you're going to be so horrified. But it's basically. Well, you explain what it is, but it's around your mouth area.

B (21:43)

Yes. And it's irritation.

A (21:45)

It's irritation and it's painful.

B (21:47)

Yeah. And most of the time, you know, everybody talks about toothpaste and all this stuff. Most of the time, in my experience, it's from products.

A (21:55)

Okay, can I tell you how I got it?

B (21:56)

100.

A (21:56)

This is. This is. I'm at the airport in Frankfurt, Germany.

B (22:01)

Love this story already.

A (22:02)

I'm at the duty free. They're all of these fancy skin creams. I don't know what I was thinking. I think I was like, in a state of, like, extreme jet lag and, like, fatigue. And I literally scooped. I remember it was a little Chanel skincare thing. I literally scooped it and I put it directly on my face, which is, as you know, absolutely insane. At an airport, you're putting skincare. They shouldn't even have that available. No, they shouldn't even. But most people are smart enough not to do that. I literally put it on my face. This happened in like 2016. And I'm sorry, do you know what it was? I don't know what it was, but I'm sure it wasn't even the product's fault. I'm sure it was just the high traffic.

B (22:38)

Right.

A (22:39)

However many hundreds of people put their fingers in that cream.

B (22:42)

You know what is another crazy thing for perioral dermatitis, and this is like a hot take, is barrier protecting products.

A (22:48)

Oh.

B (22:48)

If you use too many of them, you can really, really rip up on the perioral dermatitis.

A (22:53)

Interesting. Because people use barrier protecting products so that as like to simplify their skincare routine.

B (22:59)

You can have way too much of a good thing.

A (23:00)

Yeah.

B (23:01)

And if you use a whole line which is barrier supporting, it can cause a lot of issues.

A (23:05)

Yes. So, yeah, I had it then. And then I also had it from a homemade serum that I made that had too much essential oil.

B (23:12)

Which essential oils will do. Do it.

A (23:14)

Essential oils will do it. And it's so hard to clear up. It's like impossible. I mean, not impossible. So what do you do for it?

B (23:18)

Literally nothing.

A (23:19)

Nothing.

B (23:20)

Don't put anything on.

A (23:21)

You leave it alone.

B (23:21)

As like little as possible. Sulfur can really help. But my first point of call is like, let's not do anything. Just leave it naked for like three or four days.

A (23:31)

Okay.

B (23:31)

Calm it down. See how you do. And then like a sulfur mask can be really helpful. Not too much though. Like one to two times a week.

A (23:38)

What do you think? I'm going to get the name wrong. It's like a spray from Tower 28.

B (23:42)

Hypochlorous acid.

A (23:44)

Yes.

B (23:44)

Is that good spray? And so I, I love hypochlorous acid and I love that the Tower 28 one. It's great. Hypochlorous acid is a cleanser.

A (23:52)

Oh.

B (23:53)

Think of it as something that is amazing at cleansing the skin. It's not a hydrator.

A (23:59)

It's not a hydrator.

B (24:00)

And a lot of people will use it continuously throughout the day.

A (24:03)

Okay.

B (24:03)

Which is like cleansing your skin multiple times a day.

A (24:06)

So that would dry your skin out.

B (24:07)

Yes. It's not that it's a bad product. It's a great product.

A (24:10)

Is it marketed as a cleanser?

B (24:11)

No.

A (24:12)

I feel like there's like a little bit of like product not miseducation, but I feel like this is news to me.

B (24:17)

No, it's, it's, it's a toner. Like.

A (24:19)

Okay.

B (24:20)

It is toning.

A (24:20)

But you're not supposed to use it throughout the day.

B (24:22)

No, I wouldn't use it throughout the day.

A (24:24)

Okay.

B (24:24)

A great way to Use hypochlorous acid is. Okay. You go to the gym, right? You're in the middle of the day. You want to, like, prevent any bacteria or, like, sweat or anything going on your skin. You give yourself a little smaller spritz of that, but that is cleansing your skin. So just. Just be careful with it. It's great, but it's just. Just be careful with it. Can I go back to Mandela count?

A (24:42)

Yeah. Really quick. Let's talk about it.

B (24:44)

I want to talk about the reason why people don't use it. Primarily, it's the only active in a product.

A (24:49)

Okay.

B (24:49)

And the reason why, especially with acne products, is that mandelic acid is not monogrammed for acne use. And so what people do is they combine it with other actives that are.

A (25:01)

So.

B (25:01)

So then they can talk about it as a marketing effort. So a lot of people will use mandelic with salicylic. Salicylic is so frigging drying.

A (25:08)

It is.

B (25:09)

It's drying and it causes irritation. So I was like, we can't do that. We have to do a mandelic acid. We were lucky because we had the acne studio that we could always talk about being this acne destination. But the reason why people do it is because they can monograph that ingredient and talk about acne within it. So we can't call it an acne product. Even though it's won 17 awards, it's one of the best acne clearing products, but we can't say acne on it.

A (25:34)

Interesting. Okay. That's really helpful to know. And so when you launched your line, so you've got this great cleanser, which I love, the mandelic serum. And then we're going to get into.

B (25:44)

This, because I brought that one especially for you, because I know you love it.

A (25:46)

I think I sent you a dm, which, like, I. You did.

B (25:48)

You voice noted me, and I was so honored.

A (25:50)

I voice noted. You know, I try so many products. I very, very rarely will reach out to a founder directly and, like, send a long voice note. Because I just. Let me just tell you my experience. I opened it. I'm like, okay, it's a cream. How many moisturizers have I received? How many moisturizers have we all tried? A million. And it kind of looked like, you know, a moisturizer I've seen before here. Yeah. I'm going to give you the top. Okay. And I know it has, like, a fancy scooper, but I'm just going to put it on the back of my hand as soon as I started rubbing it into my skin, you're like, oh, she's different. I was like, she's. I was like, what?

B (26:24)

She's different is this.

A (26:26)

I've never felt a texture like this. The way it sunk into my skin, the way my skin was glowing the next day. I was like, I need to know everything. And there was a beautiful, like it came, came in a mailer with like this. Cathy. It was a very beautiful mailer.

B (26:36)

Thank you.

A (26:36)

The marketing on point, always gorgeous. But all of the marketing aside, I was like, this is incredible. This moisturizer is incredible.

B (26:44)

So there's a story behind this moisturizer.

A (26:46)

Tell me everything.

B (26:47)

Which is everything is still designed and developed within our studio.

A (26:51)

Okay.

B (26:51)

The only thing all our acne clients would ever ask for in a moisturizer, they'd say, we need something more. Hydrating gel moisturizer is not doing it for me. I'm really dry. And there's a massive misconception about acne prone clients, that they're really oily, they have oily skin. 80% of them are really dry. And so think about that dead cell overbuild. You know, like there's dryness there. So I always knew that we needed to develop a rich cream for acne. Nobody else has one. And so when we were designing the line, I was like, you know, we could do what everyone else is doing and do a gel moisturizer or we could lean into the non comedogenicity and like make this beautiful rich cream that I've been looking for for my own clients that doesn't exist. So that was really the. It took two years to develop because I was so obsessed with the texture being perfect.

A (27:38)

It's incredible. Now what makes something non comedogenic. Comedogenic.

B (27:43)

Yeah. So comedogenic ingredients have the ability to clog the pores.

A (27:47)

Okay, so what would that include?

B (27:49)

Things like shea butter, parky, shea coconut oil, avocado oil. You know, there's tons sea out like algae, so carrageena.

A (28:00)

So all of the La Mer products, you're like, maybe you said it, not me.

B (28:04)

So the philosophy behind it is I've always relied and I always keep this as my message. Path of least resistance. When you're clearing your skin, it doesn't mean the comedogenic ingredients are bad. They are not bad for your skin. But if you are acne prone, they are more likely to make your clearing journey slower and more difficult.

A (28:23)

Right.

B (28:23)

So it's not that I don't think comedogenic ingredients are able to be used by acne people. I think that you can take them out while you're clearing and get there faster and then you can decide whether you want to bring them back in. If you add one in at a time, then you'll see if it breaks you out or not. So everything on the line is non comedogenic and you can copy and paste your ingredient list of any other product in your line into our website and it'll tell you if there's a pork logging ingredient in it.

A (28:47)

Oh, incredible.

B (28:47)

Take it all out and you'll clear faster.

A (28:50)

And how much does this retail for?

B (28:52)

60, 62 or 64? I think it's 62.

A (28:56)

Okay. Yeah, so it's under $65. And I will just say, you know, I try a lot of luxury products. I think this is one of the best moisturizers I've ever tried. I will link to it in the show notes so people can try. But this just blew me away.

B (29:10)

Thank you. You should keep it in the fridge in summer too because then it becomes a cold cream and it feels so good on the skin.

A (29:15)

I love that idea. Okay, I'm definitely gonna keep it in the fridge now. I also love the cleanser and I feel like she's very simple but effective.

B (29:22)

She's not clean, she's clean clean. We call it clean clean cleanser.

A (29:25)

Yes.

B (29:25)

I love a foaming gel cleanser. And I think everyone, we all went way too left with like the oils and like the creams. Like I love an oil and cream cleanser.

A (29:33)

But for an acne I love, I need a lather, I need a ladder.

B (29:37)

And the whole point of cleansing your skin when you have breakouts is that you want to prep your skin to receive your treatment.

A (29:43)

Yes.

B (29:44)

You want to get everything off the skin. You don't want to dry it out. But this is a gel cleanser that won't leave any residue. Leave you feeling really fresh and hydrated. But your skin is clean. It's ready to receive your treatment.

A (29:54)

Yes. Okay. I have a very self serving question always. So I am like just getting over it. I got a pimple on my lower lip which I feel like lip pimples the worst. And I'm always like trying to like target. I'm like, is it this lip liner? Is it this lip balm? But like, I don't, I don't even know. I can't pinpoint it. It's, it's maybe happened twice this year already.

B (30:13)

Interesting.

A (30:13)

Always in the same spot.

B (30:14)

I wonder if you have like a Waxy lip pencil you're using?

A (30:18)

Yeah, Some of them are waxy. Yeah.

B (30:20)

Some of them contain like beeswax and things like that that could be clogging.

A (30:23)

So one of my questions is what's like the time between you use the product and the pimple shows up? Because I'm like, I don't want to blame like the last one I use because I'm like, I feel like it would have been like from the day before. Like, is it immediate?

B (30:33)

It depends. It totally depends. You could just make sure that you're exfoliating correctly.

A (30:37)

Exfoliating the lip area.

B (30:38)

Yeah. So like a sugar scrub can be really helpful. Or an old toothbrush. You know, you just want to make sure that you're like bringing off the dead cells like the rest of the skin.

A (30:45)

And the compulsion to pop it is just when it's on your lip, it's like at an all time.

B (30:50)

High school is always so fun to pop.

A (30:53)

Okay, so, but see, you're saying it's fun to pop. I've been told never ever pop. So I just like leave it there.

B (31:00)

I'm proud of you. You shouldn't. But it's fun for me to pop them and anything along, like the vermilion lip line is always so juicy and fun to pop.

A (31:08)

Yeah. Okay, now I'm going to maybe go home and like try to pop it because.

B (31:12)

Well, here's a hack.

A (31:13)

Take two Q tips and push them together.

B (31:15)

You want to almost disable your pushing power, right? So if you use a Q tip in each hand, you can kind of like manipulate it. And if it doesn't work with those, it's not ready.

A (31:26)

Okay. So you are okay with people trying to pop at home?

B (31:30)

With my Q tip method.

A (31:32)

Yes, with the Q tip method. Now should they like steam before? Like, is there. Okay, so steam the face before. Use 2Q tips on either side and like gently push and try to pop.

B (31:41)

And you want, you don't want to like, you don't need to like steam the face for a long time. Like hot shower.

A (31:45)

A hot shower. Okay, this is gonna get graphic. What do you want to come out? Cause sometimes in the past, and I really, really am so good about not popping now, but I have seen blood come out.

B (31:56)

Right.

A (31:56)

And I feel like you want like a whitishy yellowy thing to come out.

B (32:00)

Yeah, I mean, there's so many different types of breakouts, right? You have like blackheads, which are really fun. Can you just like take.

A (32:06)

I've never had a blackhead.

B (32:07)

But you have beautiful like your skin. You have actually very small pores.

A (32:11)

I do have small, but my skin is dry, so I feel like those go hand in hand. I have small pores, but dry skin. People have, like, larger pores, but then they have, like, this beautiful oily dewyness.

B (32:20)

Right.

A (32:20)

That I'm. I have to use products to get literally same.

B (32:23)

Yeah, you want to look for. If you. If you're. If you're popping a pimple, you want to make sure there's, like, something to pop. Right. It's not like a papule, which is kind of just like a red, flat, raised area. You want to, like, make sure there's a white head to it.

A (32:35)

Right.

B (32:35)

Or something like some juice buff and, like, it's.

A (32:38)

It's kind of like emerging to the surface. Like, when do you know it's ready?

B (32:41)

When it has that white head showing.

A (32:43)

Okay. Okay. So sometimes I feel like it's, like, very under the surface and, like, I know it's coming. So you want to leave it alone then?

B (32:48)

You want to leave it alone. Ice it.

A (32:50)

Yeah.

B (32:50)

Contrast therapy can be really helpful. Like, deep cystic stuff. So, like, hot and cold.

A (32:54)

Okay.

B (32:54)

You do, like, a little hot washcloth, little ice cube. Bring down the inflammation. It'll bring anything out. Benzoyl peroxide is still a classic. I love a benzoyl peroxide mask. We have one in the line, and you just put it there. Brings down information, exfoliates and so what.

A (33:11)

Should you see coming out when you pop a white head?

B (33:13)

You should see that little white bit of gunk come out.

A (33:16)

Okay.

B (33:16)

It is really normal to have a little blood, but you don't want to go too hard with it. Don't press too hard, because that will cause inflammation and then hyperpigmentation.

A (33:23)

Yeah. Did you get to pop people's pimples all day? Is that, like, favorite thing? Is that, like, so satisfying?

B (33:28)

Yeah. I mean, I am so, like, some people. Some people think it's a dirty job. I think it's, like, so satisfying.

A (33:34)

No, I feel like it would be so satisfying now. I am someone. I'm. I do a lot of skin care to myself at home. I probably haven't had an extraction in, like, three years. Is that concerning? Like, is my.

B (33:45)

Well, your skin doesn't look like it needs extracting.

A (33:48)

Okay.

B (33:48)

Yeah.

A (33:48)

So people can kind of.

B (33:49)

Yeah. You go for facials, right?

A (33:52)

No, that's what I'm saying. I don't.

B (33:53)

Oh, well, come and have a facial with me. Because sometimes a lot of dryness can be from cell buildup. Right. I think that a facial like, you have beautiful skins, and it's clear. Clear and healthy. Like, I don't think you're a candidate to do a monthly facial. For example, if someone was dealing with, like, consistent, persistent breakouts, I would say, come in every four weeks. We'll get you nice and clear, and then we'll put you on a maintenance path. One thing I think is a really great one way of a cadence for facials is break your year up into quarters. What are you doing in Q1? What are you doing in Q2? What are you doing in Q3?

A (34:24)

Yes.

B (34:25)

And it breaks that out into two opportunities you have. Correct. Which is anything from September to April, and then protect, which is April to September, which is when you're going outside mostly in the sun. So that's kind of where we go with facials.

A (34:38)

Okay, I want to go back to acne a little bit, because we talked about the causes of acne, but what about hormonal acne? Because I think that for so many women, it's just like, it. It kind of happens predictably around their cycle. So how do you. How do you treat for that?

B (34:52)

So hormonal b. Imbalances are normal. Like, we have a menstrual cycle that is an imbalanced hormonal pattern. Right. We have these, like, fluctuations within our cycle. What is something that can exacerbate acne in that, like, hormonal cycle is everything else. Like, hormonal health isn't just your period. It's how much you sleep. It's what you're eating. It's if you eat enough fiber. Like, fiber is massively impactful for pcos, hormonal fluctuations. How stressed are you? Are you working out too much? Working out too much is worse than not working out at all for your hormones.

A (35:29)

No one would ever accuse me of that. But, yes, it's a problem for some people. I get it. Yeah.

B (35:34)

But. But all these things contribute, and I think that's the big miss, is that everybody's like, oh, my period makes me break out like crazy. And it's like, no, well, actually, what are you doing, like, all the other time to support that menstrual cycle? And I'm not really a fan of, like, the whole seed cycling thing. I think it's, like, getting too deep. It's not that deep. Like, I just think taking care of yourself on a wider lens. Like, go to sleep, don't drink too much.

A (35:57)

Right.

B (35:58)

Eat well, have fiber, don't smoke cigarettes.

A (36:01)

Right.

B (36:02)

Work out, but not too much. Like, it's all just like, really boring advice, but it makes a huge difference.

A (36:07)

No, it's so interesting that, like, smoking cigarettes has boomeranged back for. I know.

B (36:12)

Everyone wants to be a bad girl again.

A (36:13)

I know. And I'm like, wait, are we really going back to this? It feels wrong.

B (36:16)

I used to smoke cigarettes when I was a teenager.

A (36:18)

Right. Yeah. It just feels. It feels wrong that we're going.

B (36:21)

Well, it's like how tanning is back in. Tanning is so in.

A (36:25)

And I'm like, that's scary.

B (36:26)

Come on, guys. Really? Are you serious?

A (36:29)

I know.

B (36:29)

I don't know.

A (36:30)

I know. Yes, it's concerning. Now, what are. So you said that you're often telling people to kind of like, say, simplify their routine. Don't use so many barrier protecting products. What is something that you're consistently cutting out when people are seeing you about acne steps?

B (36:44)

I have three steps. Cleanse, treat, hydrate. That's it.

A (36:48)

I just did an episode about this cleanse.

B (36:49)

Treat, hydrate. It's not hard. Like, you don't want to flood your. You don't want to flood your skin with treatments. You don't want to have too many different variables. You want to stay really boring. It's like the hormone advice, right? Cleanse your skin to prep your skin to receive your treatment. Treat your skin, whatever your skin concern is, and then hydrate it and protect your barrier. One time in the morning, one time in the evening.

A (37:10)

Right.

B (37:10)

One treatment in the morning, one treatment in the evening is ample. If you're doing more than that, you're running the risk of perioral dermatitis. Your acne might be coming from a product that you're using, you know?

A (37:21)

Yeah.

B (37:22)

So. So making that really calm and boring is usually really easy to solve it.

A (37:27)

Can we expect SPF from you?

B (37:29)

Maybe.

A (37:30)

Maybe. Okay. In the absence of you having. I'm sure if you're testing things, you know, maybe you're using your own concoctions. But what is your go to spf? What do you like that's on the market today?

B (37:39)

Oh, my gosh. Okay. I have three that I've been using this summer.

A (37:41)

Okay. And please make it something, because my guests come on here and they're like, you can only find it in like, Seoul in this, like, one farm. Make it something we can find.

B (37:48)

Okay. I'm gonna give you three really awesome American sunscreens. Number one, the ultraviolet. Of course, the ultraviolet. Is it supreme screen? The navy one with the yellow top.

A (37:59)

So good.

B (37:59)

It is awesome sunscreen. Yeah, I love that period. Number two, the new Dr. Idris, sunscreen is awesome.

A (38:05)

Oh, oh, okay. I haven't tried it.

B (38:08)

I can't remember the name. She's gonna kill me. Disco something. Disco block.

A (38:11)

Okay.

B (38:12)

It's great. Factor 50. Really dewy, luminous finish.

A (38:15)

Yeah. And these are all chemicals, right?

B (38:16)

I am a chemical.

A (38:17)

Okay, preach it. Because I tell. Because I'm like, you guys are. You're fighting with the mineral. You.

B (38:21)

I mean, it's all that good on the beach, right?

A (38:23)

Hello.

B (38:24)

Come on.

A (38:24)

But it's like we. The. The desire to be mineral only, like, you have to interrogate. Why are you breastfeeding if you're just like, living your life? Chemical sunscreen is just fine.

B (38:35)

But even if you're breastfeeding, you can use chemical sunscreen.

A (38:37)

Well, yeah. You know, some people are very. And like, I get it. I get it. I never want to tell pregnant people that they're being too paranoid because, like, I get it.

B (38:44)

I. I can relate to that.

A (38:45)

Yes.

B (38:46)

Yeah.

A (38:46)

So, so. But mineral sunscreen for me, I have found the one good mineral sunscreen from Ronavant that I really like.

B (38:52)

I like the Ronavant line.

A (38:53)

It's nice. But yeah, I'm just like, don't force it. Why are you forcing yourself to use a mineral sunscreen if you don't need to? Okay, so the ultraviolet, the disco block, and then what's your third?

B (39:03)

And then I've been using is clinical extreme protect, which is like an old school, like, go to for me. I've always loved that one. I recently came back from Seoul. It was like a full circle moment for me. I went with my team. We're like, developing some products out there which are amazing. I'm so excited. And of course, like, I got a bunch of sunscreens that are completely unavailable here. And I'm like, I have to wait till next time. But yeah, they're. All The Korean sunscreens are amazing.

A (39:27)

They are amazing. Yes. So, okay, so we're in Sephora. We've got Sophie Pavitt skin in the skincare area. You go to the color cosmetics area. What are you buying? What are you picking up?

B (39:37)

Wow. Okay. Well, an amazing acne safe line for my clients is climbing.

A (39:43)

Oh, okay. I hear about Ciel a lot, but.

B (39:45)

I haven't tried Ciel Cream blush is awesome. They also do a tint and protect base that I really like. I really like the Dr. Jart cc cream. That's what I use for color as a base.

A (39:55)

Nice.

B (39:55)

I really like the tower 28 blushes. So really fun. I like Farah Harmony Lip. I only really?

A (40:01)

Is she at Sephora?

B (40:02)

Yeah.

A (40:02)

Oh, she is. Everyone's obsessed with her.

B (40:05)

I love her packaging. I love her colors. They're so fabulous.

A (40:08)

Sarah Brown. Do you know Sarah Brown?

B (40:09)

Yeah, of course.

A (40:10)

She's, like, one of the most discerning women in beauty. She was like, I'm obsessed. So I was like, okay, if she's obsessed, I need to, like, get on it. And yeah, they're at Violet Gray, but I didn't know she was at Sephora.

B (40:19)

Yeah, they're at Sephora. And also I love Ultraviolet Violette. Sorry, not Ultra.

A (40:24)

Oh, Violette Sunscreen.

B (40:26)

Yes. Violette products are gorgeous. They're like matte lip, which is really pretty.

A (40:30)

Yes.

B (40:31)

Yeah.

A (40:31)

And then hair care, because you have this gorgeous hair color, and I feel like hair color is the whole thing to maintain. So what are you using for your hair?

B (40:38)

I'm like a Crown affair girl.

A (40:39)

We love Crown affair.

B (40:41)

I love Crown Affair finishing gel.

A (40:42)

Yes.

B (40:43)

I love their dry shampoo.

A (40:45)

Yes.

B (40:45)

I really like the Rose hair care line, too. The Roz Rose.

A (40:49)

Oh, Mara. Mara's line. Yes. Yes.

B (40:52)

I love their. Like, it's like a milk. Like a pump milk, which is really gorge.

A (40:56)

I love what she does for Emma Stone. Such just a.

B (41:00)

Did you just see that editorial? So amazing.

A (41:03)

I'll be honest with you. I was a little underwhelmed by the Vogue cover. Yeah, Emma's gorgeous. Her hair, she looks amazing. But I'm just like, I feel like you've got a big budget. Go shoot in the mountains somewhere. Go. Go somewhere fabulous. Like, why are we always in the studio with a seamless backdrop?

B (41:16)

That's true.

A (41:17)

Budget is not a constraint here.

B (41:19)

You know what else I like? Danessa Myricks. Like, foil sticks. Have you tried those? Those new ones?

A (41:23)

I love them because I get the eyeshadow palettes, and they're so intimidating, and I'm like, I can't. The sticks. I was like, oh, you unlocked it for me. This is it.

B (41:32)

I am so bad at doing my makeup. Like, it's not something, like, comes naturally to me. I'm a skincare girly. So, like, for me, Danessa made it easy. Like, just that little droop on the eyelid.

A (41:41)

It's so good.

B (41:42)

Awesome.

A (41:42)

I know.

B (41:42)

And you have instant, like, just glam, you know?

A (41:44)

Yeah. The foil sticks are really great. Now you are a mom of two. Two boys, and boys have a lot of energy. You have a thriving skincare business. You're working one day a week at a dermatology office. You're also still seeing clients at your studio. What do you do to relax?

B (42:00)

That is a great question. I love to read. I love reading books. I love doom scrolling on my phone, which is, like, terrible. You know, I just read Keith McNally's memoir. I regret Almost everything.

A (42:12)

Oh, I haven't. I don't know this book.

B (42:14)

It is so good. Is it so good? He's like, the mastermind behind Pastis and Balthazar, and he's just like, this really.

A (42:22)

Old school, like, see the McNally of McNally Jackson, the bookshop in Soho.

B (42:27)

Oh, that's a great question. I do not.

A (42:29)

Any answer? Maybe, maybe, maybe.

B (42:31)

Whoa.

A (42:32)

It would make sense, right?

B (42:33)

It would make total sense. I had. Wow.

A (42:35)

Yeah.

B (42:36)

I feel. I feel dumb.

A (42:37)

No, but I. I love a memoir. I love. I love reading through people who have interesting lives.

B (42:41)

It's a great beach read. Do you remember the hipster grifter?

A (42:45)

Vaguely.

B (42:45)

The hipsa grifter was like, this story back in, like, indie sleaze 2008, 2009. She worked at Vice and she, like, grifted a bunch of guys, and everyone was like, oh, my God. Shock, horror. This is, like, terrible. And then nobody heard from her for years, and she just wrote a memoir. And I read that in, like, one day on an airplane.

A (43:02)

Oh, my God.

B (43:02)

And it was just a juicy read.

A (43:03)

I feel like I remember, like, a Gawker article. I remember Gawker and Jezebel and, man.

B (43:09)

They were the days.

A (43:10)

Those were the days. Yeah. I've been thinking, as I've been thinking about Refinery29, I've just been thinking about that era of, like, going to a website and just not for a particular story. You just go to the website to, like, read everything that's been written. Absolutely.

B (43:21)

100%.

A (43:22)

We don't really do that anymore.

B (43:23)

No. And, like, that was such a moment in time in New York, too. It was like Fashion Night Out.

A (43:28)

Do you Fashion Night Out? Of course. I was an intern at Vogue at Fashion Night Out. The first and second one. And it was, like, the worst day of my life.

B (43:34)

But craziest thing, I remember buying those Isabel Morant sneaker wedges.

A (43:39)

Yeah. Which are back.

B (43:40)

Which are back in the window. I bought them in, like, half a size too small because I was like, they were the last ones there. And I was like, I have to have them. And they gave me, like, terrible, like, aches whenever I wore them. And I wore them to death. I'm like, yeah, I would. I would do it all again. I regret nothing.

A (43:54)

I know. And just, like, even just, like, going to the American Apparel on, like, Union Square and getting, like, a leotard and like, the disco. Just like. And like, yeah, just going out. I remember, like, Butter on Monday nights. I remember all of. Just, like, the club era in New York.

B (44:08)

Did you go to Jeans yet?

A (44:10)

Of, no, but I keep hearing about jeans and that. I also heard that the food scene. Good.

B (44:13)

The food is good.

A (44:14)

That's what I hear. Like a nightclub with good food.

B (44:16)

But it's like, in the old Butter restaurant. So it's just like, oh, you know, that meme of, like, the grandma. They're like, there used to be a restaurant. That's how I feel walking around New York City, like, 20 years in, you know? But. Yeah.

A (44:27)

What are you learning about yourself as a leader in this chapter?

B (44:31)

Leading a team is really hard. And for me, I struggle the most with, like, my time management. I have this amazing assistant who started with me a couple of months ago, and she's, like, finally, like, organizing my life. I find it really hard to ask for help. So asking for help is something I'm learning that I need to do. Can't do it all myself. I also come from a background of design and production and product development, so I find that hard to let go of as well. And I can't do that as CEO. Right. That's tricky for me. So I'm learning so much about myself, but I'm having so much fun. Like, it's. I'm obsessed with it, you know? But you have to be. Like we said earlier.

A (45:14)

Yes. Now, did it ever concern you to name this line with your name? Because I always think of Bobbi Brown. Right. Who can't use her own name.

B (45:24)

Right.

A (45:24)

Because Estee Lauder owns it.

B (45:26)

Correct.

A (45:27)

She's. She's got Jones Road now. She's Fabulous line bike. But if I was Bobby Brown, I would feel a type of way about my product being out there in the world and me not having control of it. And I think we've reached a point in the beauty world where founders want to build a company to eventually sell it and move on and maybe do something else. So, yeah, I'm just wondering how you think about that with your name being attached to it.

B (45:51)

For me, it was the only name we could use. And the reason why is this is such an extension of my expertise. It's an extension of our skincare studio in New York City. Everything.

A (46:03)

Right.

B (46:04)

Sophie Pavitt face is like. It's a platter of, like, everything we've worked towards so far. It wasn't just a vanity thing for me.

A (46:12)

Right.

B (46:12)

It was more like, no, we have to associate this with the results we get at the studio. The fact that I'm obsessed with this as a skincare concern. I want to make your skin better and I felt so strongly that I had to name it myself.

A (46:25)

Yeah.

B (46:26)

And it also. Yeah. Like, there's no hiding behind that name. Like, I am. I am there as a representation of that product brand. So. So for me, it was really important. Yeah. One, I wonder what happens. I mean, I. It's fun because, like, my last name is actually Nguyen because I'm married to my husband now, so I'm like, maybe I'll just change my name officially on all of my documents if we sell.

A (46:47)

Yes.

B (46:48)

And then I'll start a new line.

A (46:49)

Right. With your married name.

B (46:52)

Yeah.

A (46:52)

What was it with Bobby Brown? I think it was like a 30 year. There was some sort of like 35 years that she had non compete.

B (47:00)

Yeah.

A (47:00)

When she sold it like a million years ago, they said, like, you cannot release a new product for 35 years. And then like when she turned 60 something, she was like, I'm going to launch Jones Road.

B (47:10)

Do you know what I really want to do when I sell my beauty company if I. If I ever do is I want to. I want to learn construction.

A (47:16)

Construction of.

B (47:17)

I want to like, rip bathrooms apart with my bare hands and like, learn to tile. I think tiling. I think tiling would be so, like, soothing and methodical and like, I would be on my own with a podcast.

A (47:30)

Yeah.

B (47:30)

You know?

A (47:30)

Yes.

B (47:31)

Yeah, that'd be fun. I mean, you can have many lives, Brooke. You know, of course we'll figure out.

A (47:35)

I'm living many. I'm. Yes. I'm. I'm living proof of that. How has this chapter of your life just again, managing a business, doing everything that you love kind of changed your outlook on motherhood or ignoring.

B (47:48)

Gosh, yeah.

A (47:49)

Your relationship with your boys.

B (47:51)

You know, for me, it's really important to show them that your mom can work and have like her own thing going on. My parents always worked when I was younger and yeah. I mean, I want to. I want to show them what I can do. You know, for me, working for myself was like the greatest gift being a mom. You know, I worked for someone else for 15 years and it was really hard. I had 10 days off a year working in corporate fashion. Had shoes thrown at me and like, you know, all that's nobody. I'm not blaming anyone for throwing shoes, but, you know, that's. That stuff happens.

A (48:20)

Yeah. Of course people realize how. Seriously there was no, like, h. Like, I Don't know. Working in fashion in like the 2010s era, deeply problematic. So problematic.

B (48:30)

So problematic. But also like, I saw other women go through immense hardships with their children, you know, like going on trips with four month old babies at home. Like, and you're still nursing and like, you're pumping and sending milk.

A (48:42)

Like, yeah.

B (48:43)

What? Like, that wasn't for me. So. So working for myself really gave me autonomy over that and I'm so, so grateful for it.

A (48:51)

Do your boys use any of the products?

B (48:52)

They call it the products. They're like, mom, your products. Like, can we go and see the products? Like, my eldest is like into sunscreen now. Like, he carries around. He's six. Okay, so he's got like one of those, like, little, you know, those sticks that you like. And he's always like, mom, I just gotta put my sunscreen on. So, like, he does that.

A (49:09)

I love it.

B (49:09)

But yeah, they're still a little too small to be like a Sephora kid yet, but we'll see.

A (49:15)

Oh, my gosh. Well, my son, he asks for skin care. Like, really? Yeah, because he just knows after the bath, like, it's like lotion and like moisturizer and like, he'll remind me if we forget.

B (49:26)

He's like, I give them face rubs, you know, like a little like, with their lotion after the bath. So, yeah. Oh, that's so cute. I know. I want, like, you've got a little girl. I like, I'm missing that female energy.

A (49:36)

I know. But you know what? At this age, it's like, yeah, gender is like, not, you know, she doesn't have like, interests yet. So we'll see as she gets older and then, you know, I could talk to you all day. But my final question that I ask all of my guests, which is when do you feel most beautiful?

B (49:51)

I feel my most beautiful sat with no makeup on on the beach in Rhode Island. Like, not a hot beach, kind of a cold beach with like a coffee, just watching my kids run up and down the beach. And I'm like in like a troll outfit. Like, not, not done up, you know, And I've had the whole summer out there with them and it's been like the most beautiful thing. So I'm, I'm so grateful.

A (50:15)

Oh, that's so.

B (50:15)

But yeah, I'm back to work, baby. Like, you know, you know that feeling. Like, I love this feeling. Like, end of summer, getting back to work, schools.

A (50:24)

Like, it's like back to school.

B (50:25)

I feel more invigorated than New Year's at this time of year because we get to do the fun stuff in our skincare stuff too. So. Yeah, I'm excited.

A (50:34)

Oh my gosh. Well, I'm so excited about what's to come. Can you give us a preview of anything or.

B (50:38)

Well, the Easter egg. There's some Easter eggs coming. Yeah, we have a really big launch early next year, which might be another step. We might have talked about it earlier, I don't know.

A (50:50)

Okay.

B (50:50)

But. But there's something really big and fun coming. But yeah, we have four new launches next year, so I'm excited to share them with you.

A (50:57)

Amazing. Amazing. All right, Sophie, thank you so much for being on Naked Beauty. Literally come back whenever I could talk.

B (51:02)

To you and come for a facial.

A (51:04)

I'm going to. I'm going to come for a facial and I'm going to document it for everyone. So I'm excited for that. Thank you so much. So, Sophie, this back to school. Hear your teen say something you never thought possible.

B (51:50)

Thanks, Ma. Come to your booth store and take home iPhone 15 with its amazing camera.

A (51:55)

And all day Battery for only 99.99. Perfect for back to school.

B (51:59)

Thanks, Ma.

A (52:01)

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