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- [00:00]
Brooke
Foreign.
- [00:10]
Podcast Host/Producer
And you're listening to the Naked Beauty podcast. I'm just going to go ahead and just apologize for my voice. I'm sick, but I feel like I'm on the mend. It's been a whirlwind, honestly, from like Halloween to Thanksgiving, just absolutely non stop. We celebrated Jade's birthday, which was very sweet. I can't believe she's one year old. It feels like I gave birth yesterday and she is just the cutest, sweetest little sag princess. It was so interesting. It was her first time obviously having cake or like sugar on her birthday. And I gave her like a little bit of the cake to eat and she was like, absolutely not. And then on Thanksgiving I gave her some candied yams to try and she also said absolutely not. So I think, I don't know if she doesn't like sugar. Also. I think a lot of people singing happy birthday to her at once was a little overwhelming. I think she relaxed a lot more post party. But it was a really fun birthday party. We brought in a little like petting zoo from this really nice farm. We had rabbits and bunnies and like little guinea pigs and great pizza. Great, great pizza from Pizza Ananda, a group that my husband Umu, you guys know, he loves pizza that he found and just like lovely. We had maybe 40 to 50 people here. Pink and silver balloons. It was just, it was a very nice first birthday party. But I think Jay definitely liked the like low key celebration more. And then we just had a very lovely, like low key than. But I think I've just been going at a million miles a minute and my immune system finally just said, okay, Brooke, let's like wrap it up. You're doing too much. You need to actually go and lay down and rest. So that's what I've been doing this weekend. I have two recordings left until the end of the year, but so many good episodes coming. I cannot thank you all enough for your support of Naked Beauty. I can't believe we're almost at the last month of the year. This episode with Jamie is really great. I do want to give a trigger warning because we do talk about her experience with disordered eating, something that she is still navigating through. So there is discussion about weighing yourself and weight and like a preoccupation with body size. So I do want to give that trigger warning. But let's talk about Jamie. She's got a really distinct editorial viewpoint and a strong understanding of content and commerce. Jamie Psych has spoken, spent years cultivating and Guiding brands. As Violet Gray's former beauty director, Jamie oversaw all facets of the violet code, including the curation of Violet Gray's prestigious artist committee. Before that, she was a mass market beauty editor at Women's Wear Daily, where she reported on the business of beauty. A champion of indie beauty brands, she created CannonBall theory in 2019, a brand consulting agency to develop and evolve the stories of the most innovative brands. In October 2020, Jamie launched and Repeat with her co founder, Ben. I need to just tell you all now. I tried the and repeat like pills that we talk about in this episode to get you to focus, and I.
- [03:09]
Brooke
Swear they really work.
- [03:11]
Podcast Host/Producer
They're obviously linked in the show notes and Repeat is a platform that champions stories of daily rituals that directly impact your mental health and open the door to conversations that are commonly spoken about in private. The conversations that we have on this episode are definitely not conversations that. Yeah. That we have in. In public spaces. Because Jamie was very vulnerable and she got very deep and she really got into it and I really commend her vulnerability. Thank you all so much for listening. Let's dive into it with Jamie.
- [03:45]
Brooke
Jamie, welcome to Naked Beauty. Long time coming. Having you on.
- [03:48]
Jamie Psych
Oh, I'm like, so excited to be here. I've been listening for so long.
- [03:52]
Brooke
Oh, my gosh. Well, I had a chance to see you live in the flesh, debating at the substack event here, here in Los Angeles. This incredible event curated by Erica Chidi and Jess Defino was there. You curated it as well. It was a lot of fun to have beauty conversation at the intellectual level. And I feel like that's what I get to do here on Naked Beauty. That's what you do on your substack and all of your great writing and with the brand that you've created. So this is going to be a very rich conversation.
- [04:19]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, I'm excited. I took my beta blocker. I'm ready.
- [04:22]
Brooke
Well, you know what, let's start there because, you know the name of your substack is I'm on an antidepressant. Right. And you are very open about mental health and the medications you've taken for mental health. You talk about having ADHD as well. Have you always been open about mental health and it's something that you are open about because you want others to be open about it as well?
- [04:46]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, I've always been open about it and nothing really, I think, has ever felt really, like, off limits in terms of talking about it, but I would say, like, open on the Internet probably in the last like five or six years where I was just kind of like, okay, I'm just gonna start talking about this. But overall, with, like, friends and family, it's kind of always been an open, open conversation. Especially since I've been exposed to antidepressants since I was 9 years old and have been on one since I was nine. So it's kind of always lived in my world, even though I knew that, like, not everyone was obviously talking about it or taking it at that time. But yeah, I think when I started talking about it more on the Internet, I was like, it feels really good to not feel alone in this. And so when I started just, like, talking about it more openly to other people, I kind of got the itch to, like, continue and see that other people were feeling similar to me and, like, opening up and it felt really good.
- [05:40]
Brooke
Yes. Okay.
- [05:42]
Podcast Host/Producer
You mentioned being nine.
- [05:43]
Brooke
So I want to go back to early, early childhood. When you were growing up, what were your earliest experiences with beauty and also your self image? Did you feel beautiful growing up?
- [05:55]
Jamie Psych
I don't know if I felt beautiful growing up, but I was surrounded by beauty physically because my mom worked in the beauty industry. So she has been in the beauty industry for now like 30 years. She worked for Donna Karan Cosmetics. I could taste Cashmere Mist in all of my food growing up as a kid and still a little bit haunted by it. Although the deodorant will forever be in the world.
- [06:22]
Brooke
Can we pause on this deodorant? Because that is probably the only staple I've had, unchanging staple. I've had in my beauty rotation for 20 years. I mean, literally 20 years. But my issue with Donna Karen Cashmere Ms. Deodorant, and I tried to do the aluminum free one. It doesn't hit the same. My issue is once you start using it, you kind of can't ever stop. So I almost, like, suggest that people don't even start the drug because it's like, yeah, it's almost impossible to use anything else once you've used that.
- [06:52]
Jamie Psych
That's fair. And the only reason I stopped using it was because I got pregnant. It was like the one thing that I did change and I just sort of like, liked the deodorant I was using. So I haven't gone back to Cashmere Mist, although I feel like if I did, I would be like, why did I ever get off this train?
- [07:07]
Brooke
What did you switch to?
- [07:09]
Jamie Psych
I really like Motha Mutha. They have a deodorant and it actually works really well. And I've Tried a lot of non. Aluminum.
- [07:20]
Brooke
Yes.
- [07:20]
Jamie Psych
Deodorants, and really quite worked that well for me. But I really like this. And I don't know, I think it doesn't have baking soda in this one, and I know some people have issues with that, but this one has been. Has been working really well for me.
- [07:34]
Brooke
Yeah. Okay.
- [07:35]
Jamie Psych
Smells so good. They describe it as like a dirty citrus. So it's like a little. It's a little, like, woody, too.
- [07:42]
Brooke
Okay. I love that. That's kind of like the naked Beauty fragrance. It's like citrus, but it has, like, these woodsy notes in it as well. Okay, so nine years old, where did you grow up?
- [07:49]
Jamie Psych
I grew up in Dallas.
- [07:52]
Brooke
And was that, like, big hair, Texas beauty? Like, do the Texas beauty stereotypes ring true?
- [07:59]
Jamie Psych
You know? Yes and no. I always, like, make the joke that, like, maybe I didn't, like, witness it as much because, like, I'm Jewish, which, like, isn't really like, a good excuse for that. But, like, I feel like I just didn't grow up around that because my parents aren't actually from Texas. They're from New Jersey, which I guess you could argue that, like, if you watch Housewives, there's a lot of big hair there as well. And I would also say that just like, growing up with my mom, who was in beauty, I think she kind of took the lane of she used beauty products, and I learned a lot from her in terms of beauty. But definitely still less is more, which I think I kind of took the road as. As, like, a beauty editor as well. Like, as I, like, grew into my own.
- [08:38]
Brooke
Yes. I mean, you've had an incredible career at Violet Gray as their beauty director at womenswear Daily. You've written a ton. When did you start thinking about beauty as a career?
- [08:50]
Jamie Psych
I started thinking of beauty as a career when I was looking for a job, and that was the first one I got. I actually thought I was going to always be a writer and write about fashion. I went to Parsons and did both fashion design and then also sort of, like, made my own major and did a lot of writing and just studied fashion deeply. And it took me a long time to find a job in. What was that, like, 2011. And so WWD had a beauty opportunity to be the assistant to the WWD Beauty Inc. Editor, and I never left.
- [09:29]
Brooke
Wow. Now, you said that you did not feel beautiful growing up. When did you start caring about beauty, experimenting with beauty, trying new things with your hair or makeup or skin?
- [09:39]
Jamie Psych
I feel like at, like, 11, I was getting highlights in my Hair. So, like, kind of. Yeah, like. Like, just like, not even, like, bright colors. And I don't really recall what sort of struck that, but my mom's like, you to get highlights. And I was like, okay, cool. And I feel like that was sort of my trajectory till I was like, 15 in terms of I was like, always highlighting my hair. And then now I don't think I've ever colored my hair since, actually, funny enough. But beauty was a huge part of my life because I had the ability to, like, go to Nordstrom where my mom would do sales for Donna Karan, or later on she would work for Jack Black, and I would go get my makeup done for, like, bar and bat mitzvahs at, like, 12 and 13. And so getting my makeup done for an occasion also was, like, a very big piece of how I saw beauty. And so I. I think I got a really young start in terms of, like, what it means to have a routine.
- [10:36]
Brooke
Wow. The fact that you were getting your makeup done for bar and bat mitzvahs is actually insane. I went to quite a few in New York, but I think it was like Lip Smackers and, like, the Kate Spade purse was like my. That was like, the duo that kept me through. And a Betsy Johnson dress, of course.
- [10:53]
Jamie Psych
Betsey Johnson dress. Kate Spade for sure. And then it was either Stila or Hard Candy. That was the counter that was doing my makeup.
- [11:00]
Brooke
Oh, my gosh. Stila, that, like, little lip gloss that, like, clicked, clicked, clicked. And, like, the makeup would come up from the tip.
- [11:06]
Jamie Psych
Yes.
- [11:08]
Brooke
When did you start to notice that your beauty routine was connected to your emotional well being? When did you start making those connections?
- [11:14]
Jamie Psych
That's a really good question. And I don't actually know if I've ever really thought about that. Maybe when I started experiencing, like, actual, like, acne, which was when I was 15, and I remember being at summer camp and, like, fully breaking out on my forehead and not understanding, like, what was happening and then realizing that there were, like, things I could do both, like, at the dermatologist or to cover it up. And I feel like that's also when I, like, started to experiment more with makeup and was wearing eyeliner at one point and could go back and see, like, you know, photos of myself wearing concealer where it was, like, way too light for my complexion and it was looking very terrible. But I think in those times, like, learning that I could, like, cover something up or conceal it in some way was also really difficult for me to understand because, like, I don't really necessarily want to wear this product, but I also don't want my acne to show. So I kind of feel like it started even as young as that, even though maybe I wasn't so cognizant of it at that point.
- [12:23]
Brooke
Yes. And that's why I love starface so much, because I feel like for young people, it's like the fact that we were putting makeup. Oh, you've got your star on. Love it. Yeah. I think it's like, there's something cool about decorating your acne and that being, like, a relatable thing versus just trying to cover it up and act like, you know, your skin is perfect all the time. I'm so curious that you've chosen to focus so much of your career now on this connection between mental health and beauty. And given your time in the industry, arguably, and this includes, like, anyone that works in the beauty industry, like, perpetuating it. Right. Like, we. We all participate to a degree in this kind of narrative that buy this thing, try this new product, try this new technique, and you will feel like a better version of yourself. You will feel happier, you will feel more fulfilled. Right. That's just, like, part of how beauty marketing works. Is that something that you've had to come to terms with over time?
- [13:13]
Jamie Psych
Yes, for sure. And I think that it's been, like, a gradual thing that I've sort of noticed where understanding patriarchal beauty standards and what that means. And I think I've kind of taken a stance where I was, like, I was never, like, fighting against that. I kind of, like, wanted to always put my stake in the ground around, like, I want to look as good as I can, but. And do the things that make me feel good. But I also don't, like, want other people to have this sort of influence over me. And I would even say that what that boils down to now. And I actually had a conversation about this with someone the other day. It was like, I want. Everything that I do is going through a funnel of self acceptance right now. And I don't even think I ever fully realized and even in the last, like, years, three. Three years, that, like, that's what I've been doing out loud is I've been trying to accept myself on social media through being honest about my mental health, and only until I actually had my son a year and a half ago and sort of went through a couple of different experiences where I, like, started to learn to like myself a little bit more, that I was kind of like, okay, I'm going to do these Things that some people would maybe disagree with in terms of like, how I. How I want my body to look or what I want to do for my physical looks. But I also can stand in a place where being like, I'm going to accept myself in this, and there's. There can be a middle ground where you can be like, I don't want to do this, but, like, I feel good when I do these things, too, that, you know, some people might think of, like, a little bit more, like, egotistical or like, you know, kind of, like selfish in some ways. But I'm starting to learn that you can have it both ways.
- [15:12]
Brooke
What were the things that you went through during you said during your pregnancy or this time that you had your son that made you feel differently about yourself?
- [15:20]
Jamie Psych
I'll start by saying that I just didn't enjoy being pregnant. And that was. I actually had a fairly smooth pregnancy, thankfully. But I having had an eating disorder and really sort of like not liking my. My body for the longest time, it was a really hard position for me to be in.
- [15:38]
Brooke
I want to pause you there, Jamie, because I think what you're saying is very relatable. So you had an eating disorder prior to getting pregnant, correct?
- [15:46]
Jamie Psych
Yeah.
- [15:47]
Brooke
Did you feel anxiety about getting pregnant because of how your body would change in terms of weight gain?
- [15:52]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. Yes, definitely.
- [15:53]
Brooke
I think this is a really common thing. This was maybe years ago, but I put like a poll up on or a question sticker on Instagram Stories asking about if people were excited about pregnancy, how they felt about pregnancy for people from people. From people that didn't have kids yet. And I was really surprised by the amount of women who said that one of their biggest fears around pregnancy was gaining weight and their body changing forever as like a top fear for pregnant. Not like complications of childbirth, not the pain of childbirth, but simply this weight gain. Is it something that you were able to, like, seek therapy for? Was it something you just kind of had to come to terms with during the pregnancy? And also, some people don't get. I mean, I gained a lot of weight during pregnancy, but is it something that you experience, like gaining weight due to pregnancy?
- [16:36]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. So I would say that I was definitely in therapy, and I would even give the example of that when I got pregnant, even though when my husband and I were trying, I remember we were very lucky. And I know that a lot of people have, you know, their own issues with fertility, but I did get pregnant pregnant the first month that we tried. And when I saw the pregnancy test, I was like, Wait, I'm not. I'm not ready. You would think, like, oh, you're not ready to have this kid? And it was more. So I just lost all this weight. I'm not ready to gain it back. And that was my first thought. So I had to really reckon with that. And that took a little bit of time. And with the help of therapy, you know, I was okay. And, you know, I got through my pregnancy just fine and kind of did the things that would make me feel good and working out and all these different things. But, you know, post pregnancy, even, I remember having my son and waking up and I was incredibly swollen. It was pretty intense, and I could not. I, like, deeply cared about my son, but it was really hard for me to kind of, like, be motherly and also be like, I can't even look at myself in the mirror right now. And so it was a lot of fighting with. This is, you know, like, everyone was telling me, like, this is temporary. Your body was built for this. And all those types of things, while I know they're meant well, just made me angry and sort of, like, gave me rage in the sense that I was like, all these things you're saying to me, like, I. It's happening to me right now, like, you're not making this any better. And then through all of that, you know, it did get better. And with the help of strength training and being on. To be completely honest, being on Weight Watchers, I saw a difference in how my body changed. Breastfeeding. And these are all things that I think that sometimes if you talk about, it's like, okay, well, you. You know, you breastfed. You. It. You might have had it easier on yourself, because I did lose the weight pretty quickly, but there was also fear in that, that I wouldn't maintain it. So, you know, it's never. It's never a. Like, a linear position that I'm in for anyone.
- [19:01]
Brooke
Absolutely. And I'm also wondering if through that experience, you learned to put, like, a lower value on, like, being a certain weight or being a certain size, or maybe you didn't.
- [19:11]
Jamie Psych
I wouldn't say that I put a lower value on it. I actually am in a period where I am weighing myself every day, and I know it is not healthy. It's funny to think that, like, I am kind of saying that out loud because I don't know if, like, so many people when they're kind of in a certain position would necessarily, like, admit that piece of it, but it is something that I'm working on the scale has become like my accountability partner in the best and the worst way. It's all a little bit painful, even though I'm also feeling the best that I've ever felt in a really long time. So I'm grappling with like, oh, this is like where I want to stay in my body. And then also being like, but like, this isn't also a healthy way to live in terms of like having all this internal noise being like, okay, you have to go weigh yourself every single morning and this is where you need to stay. And if you do this and this, like, this is going to remove all that progress. So there's a lot of good things that are happening and there's a lot of things that I'm still very much working on.
- [20:12]
Brooke
That's really honest of you to share. And you know, I think, you know, weighing yourself is, it's interesting to hear you talk about it as like an accountability partner. Do you have a, a number that if you see it on the scale, if it's under that number you feel really good and if it's over that number you feel bad. Like, does the number impact your mood?
- [20:31]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, absolutely.
- [20:32]
Brooke
Yeah. And that's something that you kind of deal with through therapy. Like how does your therapist talk to you about those feelings?
- [20:39]
Jamie Psych
It's interesting because I've been in therapy since I was like 5. Like my mom would call it like play therapy. And now I'm in a place where in the past like three years, I actually have a therapist who specializes in eating disorders, which was not ever the case. And so I appreciate that we have a two way conversation versus for a long time when I was in therapy, it was very much like the type of thing that you see on TV where it's like, how did that make you feel? And not really getting the feedback. So my therapist also is pretty honest with me and tells me that, you know, she had her own eating disorder and she doesn't bring herself into it that often, but she will bring herself into it a little bit. And in some ways that doesn't work for everyone. But it, for me, it feels like I'm not alone in this. And so having a conversation versus it feeling so one sided has been really helpful for me because I think I just kind of like thrive off of understanding other people's experiences to know that I'm not alone in this. Ultimately.
- [21:41]
Brooke
Yes, you wrote a really great substack about dealing with your body dysmorphia and taking photos of yourself. And I think you said that it had been Like, a number of years that you had taken a full body photograph of yourself, and this experience of kind of documenting your face and your body and just seeing it for what it is, how did that. What. What inspired you to take that approach?
- [22:03]
Jamie Psych
The approach of actually taking a photo of myself.
- [22:05]
Brooke
Just taking photos of yourself as you were and just reckoning with that image and seeing it for what it was.
- [22:11]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, I. I think that I have seen a difference in my body lately, and I like what I see, and that has never been something I've been able to admit to myself. So being able to kind of come back after years of, like, not taking a full body picture, it was kind of a little bit of a sigh of relief, but also feels so dysmorphic in the sense that, like, I'm doing this because I feel thinner. And I also don't want to quantify that, like, this is the better body for me because I'm trying to learn in therapy that, like, I'm good no matter where I'm at, and that's the case for anyone. And I also don't ever want anyone to think that from, like, how I write or what I write about, that I think the singular body that I'm trying to go for is the way to be. It's just kind of what's been gotten me out of my rut in some ways. And it kind of goes back to that thing of, like, you. You want to stand up for, like, what's right and that all bodies should be accepted for the way that they are. Then with my own self, I'm kind of like, but I can't accept my body in this way if I were to be this way. And so I think I'm trying to come to an understanding that, like, I can accept myself in the way that I am right now and be okay with that. And I have to kind of, like, let this other noise sort of calm down so that I can, you know, just be confident, just, like, feel good. Like, I don't have to also, like, let all these. This background noise. Did I even answer your question?
- [23:57]
Brooke
You did.
- [23:57]
Podcast Host/Producer
You did. You did.
- [23:59]
Brooke
And because you've worked on the industry side, both consulting with brands or, like, working on the editorial side of the business, what responsibility do you think we have to make people have, like, a more positive body image? Is it in the casting of models and making sure that there. There are diverse body types? Is it in the language that we use? Of course, with glp, one usage being so prevalent, there's been a lot of language about Kind of like living your best life because you're a smaller size. And as someone who's, you know, written copy and writes a lot, I'm sure that language is something you, you know, you're. You're hyper aware of. What, what do you think the responsibility is for people that are in the industry?
- [24:39]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, I think, I mean, it goes back to what you were saying around casting diversity in terms of across body types, across stem types, all that, so that we can, you know, this is nothing new, but obviously it needs to be done. And I think that, you know, especially growing up, I, I grew up in a little bit in like the 90s, but I would say, like the early 2000s is sort of like what I was like, very closely paying attention or where I was a teenager, essentially, and there was no. There was a singular body type. And so I think that even now I'm. I'm trying to, like, grapple with the fact that, like, I, I've seen this. A certain body type my entire career or not mine. Well, yeah, a lot of my career, but I also want to make sure that they're the. The industry has a responsibility to bring out more body types and not make it so singular because you end up in this trap similar to what I was in and just wanting to only look a certain way. And that also isn't everyone's reality. So I would say that is definitely a piece that people should be keeping in mind. And then, yeah, the way that we talk to our customer is so important. And when you talk about, like, when you just brought up, like, the GLP1 and like, living your best life, that's not really a fair assumption to make. And especially with, like, you know, people, it's such, like, a muddy conversation to have. I think I've spoken to GLP ones in the sense of, like, I feel like I've gone through so many evolutions of how I feel about them because of, like, the way they've been marketed to us.
- [26:15]
Brooke
I can so relate to that. Jamie. I've gone through like a full. I've gone. Like, when they first came out, I was like, this is kind of like, horrendous and terrible that, like, people are doing this and, like, we're just going back to, like, the super thin body type. But then also hearing from people that are like, I suffer from pcos or like, I. I actually really benefit from these drugs that have made me feel better than I've felt in many years and thinking, okay, so maybe it's like, it's a medical Advancement that people can embrace if they so choose. But then also living in la, you know, we're here in la, very small, you know, a size for a woman who's completely healthy, will be on a GLP1 to, like, lose five pounds, and you're kind of like, okay. I mean, but if that's what you want to do and it's your body, I mean, I don't know. But, yeah, I have felt all types of ways. So how are you feeling about them now?
- [27:05]
Jamie Psych
I am on the exact same page as you, and I do believe that, like, you do what's best for your body and make your own decision. But I also think that. I don't know if you watch the TV show Love Thy Nader. I bring this up all the time, but it's.
- [27:19]
Brooke
What's it called?
- [27:20]
Jamie Psych
Love Thy Nadir. It was on Hulu. It's a reality show about Brooks Nader and her three sisters, who are all models, beautiful, have a very ideal body type. And I think it was one of the last episodes where they reveal Brooks has basically like a GLP1 obsession and they do an intervention. And what was really interesting is she's like, yeah, I admit it. Like, this is what the industry has done and, like, this is where I need to be. And what was fascinating about that is that one, I didn't ever think about a GLP1 in the way that you could abuse it. And that was the first thing that I thought, because maybe if I had known that a couple of years ago, it might have been something that could have affected me in that way. I've never been on a GLP1, but I just didn't realize that. That it could be abused in that way.
- [28:10]
Brooke
That's really interesting if you're prone to disordered eating and you get exposed to a GLP1. Of course I can. I mean, yeah, that makes sense that that can be something that you could abuse.
- [28:19]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. And what was also really interesting is that. And I don't know who brought this up or if I read this somewhere, but the fact that Brooks Nader was so honest about her saying, like, yeah, I do it. And this is just the reality of the industry that I'm in. We saw, like, no extra, like, media fallout from that. Nobody else was talking about that scene. Like, usually I feel like if someone has done something and abused it in a way, then, like, you know, every media outlet is going to, like, jump on that and speak to it. But because she was so honest and forthright, it kind of didn't go anywhere. And that was really fascinating to me that like, when she was just like honest about it and didn't even necessarily seem as if like she's like, yeah, I'm going to try and take care of myself. But also like, she didn't really like, kind of have a solution to it. But going back, like, what, where am I at with it now is I believe, do what you want, but also you need to be careful depending on your sort of your relationship with your body. And because I think about myself in that sort of conundrum of what like Brooks Nader and sort of abusing it in that way, I think that there's just. Listen, it's a whole new economy, which is so crazy the way that like beauty brands have hopped onto it and created products that are GLP1 like and kind of will like sculpt your, your, your jawline because the GLP1s have induce this saggier skin. I think that that is a far stretch and I think that we really need to watch the way that we sell to people because those topical products aren't going to do it.
- [30:00]
Brooke
Yes. And yeah, if I can share my own kind of relationship with my body. Through both of my pregnancies, I think I have gotten to a place where like, being healthy is like the most important thing to me and weight is no longer something that I even keep track of. Like, I have a scale in my bathroom, haven't stepped on it in a while. Some of it that may be avoidance. Like, I know I'm not the weight that I was before I had my, my children. But I feel good. I feel good. And I think I probably in my 20s put like a really big premium on being a certain size. And now I just feel sort of like if I feel good and I feel healthy, which is honestly again, such an underrated thing. Like even I was at the doctor today. I went to the doctor this morning just talking about energy levels. Like he was talking to me about how so many people have just like a low level fatigue, just like a constant chronic fatigue and like how, how rare it is to just like wake up and feel energetic day to day, you know, like. Yeah, yeah, so. So I feel like I'm in this place of like, I just want to be as healthy as I can be. And like the number on the scale or the size of my clothes doesn't really move me one way or the other.
- [31:12]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. And I think that's so important and I, I really hope that I get to that place at some point, but I Do know that like I am actually in the best shape in terms of like the things that I'm doing to maintain feeling strong and making sure that like my back doesn't go out when I'm like holding my one and a half year old and just feeling good and having the energy to watch him thrive is really important to me. So I understand that deeply.
- [31:41]
Brooke
Yes, I want to talk about and repeat your brand and what the catalyst was for that. I know so much of what you talk about is ritual and being grounded in ritual. I'll speak to your pill case because it's on my bedside. I put all of my, I'm taking, I take a multivitamin, a probiotic sometimes and a biotin hair growth supplement. I put them all in your beautiful little seven day pill case and it just, it feels like a very elevated experience by the side of my bed. But what made you create and repeat?
- [32:09]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for using our pill case. It means the world. I co founded and repeat with my husband slash co founder and you know, simply it really came from my experience of getting off of ADHD medication. You know, I was the kid who couldn't focus, who had a hard time in school. Parents put me on antidepressants when I was really young thinking it would help me, and it didn't. And ADHD medication wouldn't come into my life until much later, more so in college. And prior to taking ADHD medication, I definitely didn't feel smart. I was put into classes labeled as disability classes and just did not feel as if I was intelligent or, you know, was going places, I guess when I was a teenager. But ultimately I got on the ADHD medication when I was in college and it was completely game changing.
- [33:04]
Brooke
Were you diagnosed officially?
- [33:06]
Jamie Psych
No.
- [33:07]
Brooke
In college? No, I feel like in college it's this very like backstreet back alley. I'll, I'll sell you an Adderall for $7 to cram for a test. Right. So like how did you, I guess like come to the medication?
- [33:19]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, so I did go to my psychiatrist and I said that I was having a really hard time focusing. I had just started fashion design school at Parsons and was having really hard time sewing. And all she really said was like, here's a script for Concerta. And that was kind of it. It's not like I was tested. I was tested when I was a kid and nothing came back actually for having adhd. But I got the medication and I took it every single day for the next 10 years. And I Never thought that I would say that I'm actually smart. So it was really, really, really great for me. But it did came with come with some sort of effects that I realized later, including one of them, including being that it suppressed my emotions. And I realized that when someone said something on a podcast funny enough that when she would take her medication, somebody would say something funny and she couldn't laugh. And I thought, whoa, like, that's me. I just thought nobody was funny.
- [34:14]
Brooke
And wow.
- [34:16]
Jamie Psych
But I decided ultimately then I think I was around in my or like 31 or so to try and get off of it. And I said if I don't get off of it successfully, I'll just get back on. Like, yes, it's suppressing my emotions, but like it. It has done really great things for me overall. And it wasn't something that I actually realized until someone said it.
- [34:38]
Brooke
So one, A lot of people try to go off of it or that that kind of reckoning happens when they get pregnant. But this happened to you before, way before you were getting pregnant. But also I've heard someone say, not that it suppressed their like, humor or like their ability to find things funny, but that they weren't like, attracted to other people. That's what I've heard is like another side effect that like this kind of like lust, that kind of like feeling of like blushing and feeling like warm and tingly towards other people kind of didn't exist. There was just kind of like this like auto hyper focus on yourself, you.
- [35:09]
Jamie Psych
Know, I've never heard anyone say that, but I. That honestly, like, I could. Yes.
- [35:15]
Brooke
Yeah, that rings true when.
- [35:18]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, some ways, like the suppression of my emotions kind of just like went. It wasn't just not finding people funny. It was definitely a lot of other things. And I don't know if it had, you know, it could have been intimacy. There's a lot of different things that could have been at play with sort of what I was going through at the time. But I decided to get off of was kind of like, this isn't the worst thing for me. So if I don't get off of it successfully, I'll just stay on it.
- [35:44]
Brooke
But do you mind if I ask how many milligrams you were on and if you tried to like, like titrate. Is that the right word? If you tried to basically like lower your dosage over time or you just like one day just didn't take it anymore.
- [35:57]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. Okay. So funny story about this. So I, I had gone. I feel like the last I was On Concerta, which is a little bit different than Adderall. And I want to say, like the lowest dose I was on was like 18 or something. 18 milligrams. And I had been higher. Like 27, I feel like, was what I was at at one point anyways. I didn't actually taper off when I got off of it. I worked with a nutritionist to help get off my medication, which probably wasn't the way I should have done it. And it wasn't the best experience for me. Even though I did successfully get off of it, it was not. It just wasn't right for me in terms of, like, my body image. There was a lot of inner workings with like eating a certain way. And I think that when I decided to get off medication, I was also in the mindset of like, yeah, maybe I get off of it, but I'll also lose weight. So there was also something looming in the back.
- [36:54]
Brooke
Sorry, you meant that you'll lose weight when you're off of it or while on it you lost weight?
- [36:58]
Jamie Psych
I will lose. So usually you would think, oh, you lose weight when you're on the medication, which happened in the beginning. But because I was working with a nutritionist at the time to get off this medication, I was like, someone's gonna guide me and I'm finally gonna lose more weight. At the time when, you know, it was a time where I wasn't feeling great about myself. And so looming in the background was like putting out, like forward facing. I was like, I'm getting off of my medication. But in the background, in my head, I was like, oh, but I could also lose weight. And that's kind of like more important at this point.
- [37:33]
Brooke
Got it.
- [37:35]
Jamie Psych
But I did get off the medication, and even though it wasn't the greatest experience, it was fine. And I had to learn a lot around what that dependency I had on the medication because it took me about a year to find feel. Normal isn't the right word, but like, I was super lethargic. It was really obviously hard to focus not being on the medication, but my body just didn't feel the same. I didn't have the same energy. So I was fairly uncomfortable both from like a physical and mental perspective. And during that time, I tried a lot of different supplements to help me focus. A lot of different adaptogens and nootropics and things that just like, weren't quite doing the trick. I didn't really necessarily feel anything. And so I went to my psychiatrist and told her I really wanted. I didn't want to get back on my medication, but I wanted to try something else. And she recommended I try an ingredient called L tyrosine. It's an amino acid. It helps to boost the dopamine in your system. And I got it off of Amazon. It was like a single ingredient product. And I tried it and I felt I could focus. That same day that I took it, I was like, holy shit, this is incredible. But the experience was really clinical and cold. And I saw that there was such an opportunity to remove this shame from the medications or the different things that we take and make it a much better experience. And so my husband and I created our supplement and Focus using L tyrosine. And then we worked with a plant based formulator. And basically what was really important in creating this one formula is that we wanted to use L tyrosine. We knew that it worked, but I didn't want to flood it with a ton of other ingredients because so often when you're taking a supplement especially for focus, if you have a laundry list of ingredients, those ingredients are spread so thin that there isn't enough for you to actually feel the benefit of what you're actually taking. And it's kind of that game that I feel like everyone plays with supplements where it's like, I think it's working, I'm not really sure. And I really just, like, didn't want to have that guessing game. And so when you take our supplement, there's two ingredients so that there's enough of each ingredient that you can actually feel a difference. You can feel it within 30 to 60 minutes of taking it. The other ingredient in there is called Bacopa extract. It's an ayurvedic herb and it helps you to feel more calm and more present. And so I wanted you to feel as if you could focus, but also to feel really good in the process. Because when you take ADHD medication, and I also want to caveat that, and focus is also, you don't have to have ADHD to take this. But when you do take ADHD medication, you get this, like tunnel vision and you kind of can't see anything else. There's all this anxiety, there's, you know, there's internal thoughts racing. And so I wanted this almost to feel as if there was like a relaxed alertness that you could sort of feel. And so that's what we did. So there's just those two ingredients and then there's mint, which we really just put in for experience because taking supplements can be a terrible one. And we Just wanted it to feel good going down.
- [40:41]
Brooke
Yes. And the pill case also makes it a lovely experience. Now I, I think I was gifted and focused. Thank you for sending it to me while I was pregnant and I just like didn't know, like, I was just like, can I take it? Can I not? And then I've been breastfeeding for forever. But I'm going to try, I'm literally going to try it tomorrow. I'm very excited to try it and see how my focus is. I also really appreciate that you're like, listen, I take an antidepressant which is not a like whatever, natural holistic supplement, but it makes me feel better and it's something that you're committed to taking all the time. But then also on the other side, you are taking this kind of more natural is not the right word, but a non prescription medication. We are moms. I'm so curious. I'm like dying to ask you this. So you talked about being on medication from a young age. My son is young, he's like five. I don't think the discussion about like, like children taking medication has happened at his age yet. But even from you saying like at nine years old you were prescribed medication as a mom, would you put your child on a medication at 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 years old?
- [41:44]
Jamie Psych
Oh, what a good question.
- [41:46]
Brooke
And I'm only asking because it's something that has like occurred to me that that may be a question that I may have to contend with with either of my children. If someone at some point says like, oh, we recause children are prescribed medications now, I think especially like ADHD medications. My, my son is one of these virgos that can sit in the corner and like rearrange his cars for three hours. Like I don't think he has. Yeah, I'm like, I don't, I'm like, I don't see, I don't see any attention issues happening, but it could happen, you know, for, for any child at any age. So I'm curious, because you were prescribed at a young age, is it something you would be open to or against because of that, because of what you experienced?
- [42:25]
Jamie Psych
I'm definitely not against it. I don't quite know like what type of lengths I would go in terms of like do I want to find another option? I'm not, not against the medication though, whatsoever. I think the one thing that I would, if my son were to go on any sort of medication, I think I would want to just make sure that I educate him that like this is going to help you. And I don't know if I was necessarily told that. So clearly it's not like my parents were like, this is going to cure you. But I don't think there was really any discussion around the fact that this was going. This is going to be something that is going to just help you a little bit. It's not going to change you. And I think I constantly, you know, it was too young to have those types of thoughts of, like, is this going to change me? But I felt a lot of shame until I was a teenager. I took my medication, my antidepressant, Prozac, inconsistently, because of that shame. And so I didn't really know what it felt like to be on it. And then when I was 18 and I was in college and I went through some very stupid drama and decided to take my medicine every day, I was like, oh, this is why I'm on it. This is. This is different. This is helpful. So I don't think I had the language or the conversation with my parents as to, like, why this is something that I need. So I just think that I would go about that differently and making sure that, like, I could really nurture that piece so that my son could understand what was happening, because I don't think I understood that. So to answer your question, I'm not against medication. I don't really think I have an answer to that quite at this moment. But medication has helped me in incredible ways. So it's definitely not a no.
- [44:18]
Brooke
Yes. No. That's really interesting. And. And for your kind of like, struggles with eating disorders or body dysmorphia, has it been something that you've been able to talk to your parents about, or do you have an understanding of maybe signals you got from early childhood that could have contributed to your, I guess, kind of like, I guess, inaccurate understanding of your body?
- [44:41]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, I mean, I could talk about this all day. My parent. I am probably too upfront with my parents to be honest. And we have that relationship where they are kind of like, oh, Jamie said what was on her mind, and she's not gonna. That's. She's just not gonna hold back. And we have that sort of understanding. But, you know, my mom has. Has had an eating disorder most of her life, and she likes to say at this. She likes to say now that I can't blame her anymore. Which takes. Take that with what you want.
- [45:12]
Brooke
But.
- [45:14]
Jamie Psych
We do have an understanding that we don't talk about our bodies in front of each other. You know, I think that There was a long standing relationship with my mom and I where we would complain about our bodies and what we didn't like about them in front of each other. And we both know that that's not healthy. And so that has changed a lot in the last probably 10 years.
- [45:37]
Brooke
Jamie, I'm so happy that you've said this, because I think it's a big, like, aha moment for people listening. I think, especially as mothers, very small, small, seemingly innocuous comments that you make about your body, like your kids are listening, even down to. I can remember my mom specifically always saying, like, if we had a big meal and, like, the dessert menu came, she's like. She would, like, slam the dessert menu shut, and she'd be like, I can't. I couldn't possibly have dessert. And then I would feel like, well, I kind of want a dessert. But, like, you've kind of made, like, a big point about not having dessert. And that's. That was like. I can remember at a very young age feeling like dessert is like this. Not, like, sinful, but it's like this. It's this gluttonous thing. Right. And I don't think that was her intention. I think she just truly didn't want to have dessert because she was full. But that, like, small, little seed was something that I then learned at a young age, like, okay, like, maybe I shouldn't have dessert after. Emil, when in childhood, what were the things or the comments or behaviors that you were seeing from your mom that you feel, like, negatively impacted you? Because I think it could be really helpful for people listening, especially that. Are moms.
- [46:43]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. I mean, carbs were the enemy. Eating bread was the enemy. Yes. Dessert was also the enemy. So, you know, there was a lot of things that I have this very vague memory of, like, going for maybe, like, a second cookie and having my mom be like, do you really want that?
- [47:03]
Brooke
How old were you when she said that?
- [47:06]
Jamie Psych
Probably, like, 13 or something.
- [47:09]
Brooke
Yeah, at 13, like, have all the cookies you want, you know?
- [47:12]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please do. There was a lot of those kind of, like, little things here and there. And I know that she was struggling a lot with her own body, and that's never, you know, like, I. I am making myself very aware in how I. The things that I say around my son and just making sure that, like, my actions and the things that I'm still learning, because there are a lot of things that I still have patterns that aren't the most healthy. I just don't want to inflict that on him or anyone else around me. Because I also don't want people to feel as if, like, even though carbs are no longer the enemy to me. And I've only learned that in, like the last year or two, which is really crazy.
- [47:58]
Brooke
Congrats. Welcome back to the carb loving community. It's great. It's great over here.
- [48:03]
Jamie Psych
It's really fun. But I. I don't ever. Also, besides my son, which obviously is the most important, I don't want other people to feel as if I'm judging them, even though, like, I might not be participating and that I've always been really cognizant of as well. But yeah, ultimately it was really hard to. To be like, a witness to these things that, you know, I. She role modeled a lot of sort of that behavior, and I. And I definitely took it with me.
- [48:31]
Brooke
Yeah. And. And maybe her mother had an eating disorder and her mother's mother had an eating disorder. Right. It's like there's this cycle, but you are now in this kind of mode of wanting, wanting to actively recover, which takes a lot of courage.
- [48:46]
Jamie Psych
Thanks.
- [48:47]
Brooke
So the beauty industry, skincare, makeup, you. One of the things that you do so brilliantly is you curate. That was like your role at Violet Gray. I feel like Violet Gray has always stood out to me as this place for beauty discovery. And I can remember during your tenure there discovering so many cool brands. I feel like you've always championed indie brands and you've always just been about, like, what's good, like, what kind of cuts through and again in your substack. I love when you do your little roundups of, like, fun things to buy. You have great taste. Jamie, I would love to hear about the beauty products, both skincare and makeup, that you're excited about right now.
- [49:22]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, I feel like, especially for so long I was talking, I would try so many products, and I still try a lot of products, but I definitely try less now. And I would say I'm so much more loyal to products than I've ever been, maybe my entire life. But skincare wise. Love Sophie Pavitt. Her mandelic serum has really changed my skin. And I think the way she educates on ingredients and the way that she's kind of making acne products sexy is just such a great way to go about creating products in such, like, a stigmatized category. So I love what she's doing. Basically, my whole skincare routine is her. I use her moisturizer, I use her cleanser.
- [50:03]
Brooke
All of the products are so good. I also feel like there's something like I rebought the, I rebought the moisturizer and the serum and I didn't rebuy the cleanser and I got so used to seeing the green, yellow and blue in my cabinet that I was like, no, I immediately need to go online and like reorder the cleanser. There's just something about the three primary colors that I'm like, it goes as a set and it all works together. Yeah, those products are phenomenal. And that moisturizer is like a texture I've never, never experienced before.
- [50:32]
Jamie Psych
It's incredible. It's like, it's like melty but it's also is thick but doesn't feel too heavy on the skin. It's really wild.
- [50:41]
Brooke
It's really wild. Yeah.
- [50:43]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. She did an incredible job. I love the sunscreen by Good Weather Skin which I don't even know if is a year old. They only have two products. I think they just came out their second product but basically they created this really beautiful mineral sunscreen that just. I don't think I've ever been excited to put on sunscreen and I don't know if I quite know why I get excited but maybe it's like, it just feels more like a skincare product and it looks nice when you put it on and the texture is beautiful. I don't have an aversion to the smell of sunscreen, but this one really doesn't have that much of a like a typical sunscreen scent.
- [51:22]
Brooke
So.
- [51:22]
Jamie Psych
And I know that bothers some people. I love it and they, I think they just came out with a new version that has like a little bit more of like a, a glow to it. So it's kind of like your like highlighter that you can put all over your face but it has some protection. So I just really like what that brand is doing and they create really beautiful products.
- [51:40]
Brooke
Yes. I will say for, for the brown girls listening. I did look online. It is a zinc based mineral sunscreen which can be difficult for melanated skin tones. But do with that information what you will. But I'm happy you love it.
- [51:54]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, for sure. And then I love Farrah Homeidi her.
- [52:00]
Brooke
All the cool girls do her makeup.
- [52:03]
Jamie Psych
Products are really expensive and really expensive.
- [52:07]
Brooke
But wait, wait, let me get the prices because I feel like in a world of Westman Atelier and Pat McGrath, what does very expensive mean?
- [52:16]
Jamie Psych
Oh, just wait.
- [52:18]
Brooke
The site is loading. Because that, you know, that's the other thing I feel like as people that do what we do, we get sent so many things. And I kind of, like, I actually have to go out of my way to look up how much something costs.
- [52:28]
Podcast Host/Producer
Totally.
- [52:29]
Brooke
Oh, my God, these prices.
- [52:32]
Jamie Psych
I know.
- [52:33]
Brooke
Oh, my God. Like, a tiny little, like, vial of lip oil is $46. The lip compact is $88.
- [52:43]
Jamie Psych
Yeah.
- [52:44]
Brooke
A tiny little face brush, $62.
- [52:47]
Jamie Psych
So I know it's so expensive, and I feel it's really important to. To state that I have not been sent those. Those I bought with my own money, and I rarely do that. And I think it was because I really loved the way that she did makeup, and I really liked the branding, and I was just felt so immersed in the world, and I was like, this feels like it's for me. And I'm really glad that I took that chance because I would absolutely buy the concealer again. I love the texture.
- [53:16]
Brooke
$88 concealer.
- [53:18]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, I know.
- [53:19]
Brooke
Okay, well, now I'm going to have to try it. And, like, also now I kind of, like, want to have her on the podcast because so many people love her products. I mean, the branding is phenomenal.
- [53:28]
Jamie Psych
That lip gloss, it's so good. It's like, it has gotten this texture.
- [53:33]
Brooke
48 lip gloss.
- [53:35]
Jamie Psych
Yeah.
- [53:35]
Brooke
It's so small, though. Like, how quickly do you go through this?
- [53:39]
Jamie Psych
I'm doing good on it, I think. Like, I bought it, like, a couple of weeks ago.
- [53:43]
Medicaite Advertiser
I got.
- [53:43]
Jamie Psych
I got a lot in there. But what she did in terms of the texture, it's a. You know how, like, when you put lip oil on, it can be pretty thin. Like, it's not usually, like, super hydrating. This is almost, like, has, like, an oil balm consistency, so it's, like, cushiony. And then it also has, like, the. The finish of what you would, like, look like if you put on, like, a sticky lip gloss, but there's no stickiness in sight. It's just really incredible what she's done with the texture. And I'm really impressed by that piece of.
- [54:12]
Brooke
Of it. Oh, my gosh.
- [54:13]
Podcast Host/Producer
Okay.
- [54:14]
Brooke
I'm sold.
- [54:15]
Podcast Host/Producer
I'm sold.
- [54:16]
Brooke
You've sold me. We'll put. We'll put links in the episode description, and then if you guys click on those links and I get affiliate revenue, maybe you can help me fund purchasing my own.
- [54:26]
Jamie Psych
But a more affordable lip product that I do absolutely love is made by Denise Fossey. Beautiful products.
- [54:34]
Podcast Host/Producer
Yes.
- [54:34]
Brooke
I just had that in London, and it served me very well over the trip. It's just kind of like it lives in my airport travel bag, and I feel like. Like, it's just Like, a really good. And I also like Edam a lot.
- [54:46]
Jamie Psych
Oh, yeah, that's a great one, too.
- [54:48]
Brooke
Really, really great. What do you want more people in the industry to understand about the relationship between beauty and mental health?
- [54:57]
Jamie Psych
That there is really no way to, like, break them apart. They go really hand in hand. And I think that if you're not thinking about someone's mental health when you're creating products, then you're doing something a little bit wrong. But I also think that when we're. And I say mental health, I don't mean that we need to get, like, emotional about the products. I think, like, we also take ourselves really seriously in beauty. And so, like, I think we can be funny and we can have a comedic edge. And I think. I mean, we could all use that in right now in this. In this world. But I think we need to figure out how we can create an emotion and a feeling around the way that we, like, use and purchase beauty products. But we also need to make it so that, like, we know that this isn't, like, the end be all and that this is fun. This like, you. And you can also, like, if you want to look your best, like, and you feel and that makes you feel good, then, like, you should do that. But also, let's not try to sell each other on that. This will make you better. Because ultimately it should be, like, it should be up to the consumer as to, like, what they want it to be and not up to the brand. So I think we have to kind of flip those. Flip that. Because I think so often we're, like, looking at the brand to tell us what we need. And I think that we don't always need to do that.
- [56:21]
Brooke
Yes, it's sort of like this delineation between a product allowing you to be yourself and, like, celebrate who you are versus a product selling you on becoming someone new. And I feel like the issue is too often beauty brands are selling you this, like, false dream of, like, you're going to become this different person once you use this. Rather than, like, here's a product that helps you celebrate and, like, enhance who you are.
- [56:47]
Jamie Psych
Yeah.
- [56:48]
Brooke
I also, you know, love the way that you talk about fragrance. I think you and I are both fans of the relatively new fragrance brand Lore. Or is it Lore? Is it Lore or Lore World?
- [57:00]
Jamie Psych
I think it's just Lore World is just like the URL, but I'm not sure.
- [57:05]
Brooke
I think it's Lore, one of these brands that was created by, like, it's like a. It's like a Super group of, like, beauty industry veterans and CEOs that, like, came together to create this fragrance brand. But there's just like, so much nostalgia in each of the scents. And, like, it just makes me. It makes me feel great. I think one of the terms you used to write about it was like, you, like, spray it on and you, like, stand up a little bit straighter.
- [57:26]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. I mean, I think that the. The storytelling aspect that they've been able to do is. Is just really smart. And I heard Melanie Bender, one of the founders, on a podcast just, like, describing each fragrance, and I was like, oh, I, like, want to walk into that world. And I think that that's really powerful. If you can tell a story in that way, it doesn't have to feel. I don't know. Some fragrance can feel a little bit like it's trying really hard. And this just felt like. There was just. It just felt so natural. I was like, oh, I kind of understand this, but I also feel the aspiration, and I really like that sort of, like, play where I can kind of, like, envision myself in something. But also maybe it's, like, not so in reach all the time. So I think they do a really good job with that.
- [58:16]
Brooke
Yes.
- [58:16]
Podcast Host/Producer
You also have gorgeous hair.
- [58:18]
Brooke
What are the hair products? What are we using? I know you love Crown Affair.
- [58:21]
Jamie Psych
I do love Crown Affair. Diana is the best. I also love Rose and Mara Rosak.
- [58:26]
Brooke
Yes.
- [58:27]
Jamie Psych
Her shampoo and conditioner I use every single day or not every single day is the one that I do use. And I am super low maintenance with my hair. Like, wash it a few times a week, and then I don't touch it, and I don't think else in it.
- [58:45]
Brooke
No heat. No colored. Well, that's why it's so, like, thick and luscious and healthy looking. Because you're not like. I think people color their hair, then they heat their hair. They do. And then they're like, oh, my hair is not healthy. It's like, well, yeah, you're kind of.
- [58:57]
Jamie Psych
You're doing.
- [58:58]
Brooke
You're not giving it a chance to thrive.
- [59:00]
Podcast Host/Producer
Okay.
- [59:00]
Brooke
So you're just super low maintenance.
- [59:02]
Jamie Psych
Really low maintenance. My sister just went to Japan and brought me back these brushes that you can only get in Japan, and they're so good. I think it's with a K. It's like kabako or something. I'll have to get the name for you. I'm sure you can find them maybe somewhere.
- [59:18]
Brooke
We'll link to it in the show notes.
- [59:19]
Jamie Psych
But that brush was like, I was like, holy. I've. My. My hair has never felt this soft before. And I do like, I like running a brush through my hair.
- [59:28]
Podcast Host/Producer
Yes.
- [59:29]
Jamie Psych
Throughout the day. I like that feeling.
- [59:31]
Brooke
Yes. I. I'm mostly in like braids or other protective styles, but since I've like taken my braids out, I've just been like giving myself like these deep scalp massages because I'm just like, oh, it just feels so nice to like, have your hands on your scalp. Such a good feeling. And in terms of like, fun little fashion finds and accessories, what are you loving lately?
- [59:52]
Jamie Psych
What am I loving lately? So one brand that I love is Dahanshe. It's a line of belts, but they just created jewelry and they basically they have like these rings on their belts that they're known for and they kind of turn that into these earrings and they're really beautiful. I'm really excited about those.
- [60:10]
Brooke
Oh my gosh. Wait. I. I just literally tried on this belt for the first time at Selfridges. When I was in. I was like, I was. When was I in London? Yesterday? I don't know. My producer is on the time. It's all blurring together. I just discovered these belts and I was like, this is like the cutest belt. And I was like, immediately like, I need to have one. Okay. To Hanchi. So everyone's known about this. I'm late.
- [60:33]
Jamie Psych
The belts are so good. I have like four of them and cycle through them. The designer behind it, Erin, who I know and is so lovely, has just done a really great job with creating these like evergreen belts that you can wear for so many occasions and like dress up and dress down, which I really appreciate.
- [60:51]
Brooke
Can I ask you a very specific one? Because it's something that I'm in search of the perfect white T shirt.
- [60:57]
Jamie Psych
Who do you think makes it rlt?
- [61:00]
Brooke
So I knew you would have an answer.
- [61:03]
Jamie Psych
Local la. It is by a woman named Rachel Tabb who started on Instagra, like basically like sourcing cool vintage, like little like jewelry trays and stuff. And she just had really great style and she ended up turning it into like a vintage store. And now RLT creates like really great basic like white tees, like black sweaters, like the perfect, like black slip dress, like very 90s Calvin Klein. And then she also sources the best Levi's I think in la, so you can buy it online or you can go to her store and they actually have one in Montecito. Also. I'm actually wearing one of the white long sleeve shirts, but she has like baby Tees. She has, like, big, boxier tees. Like, she really has kind of spread. It's like, goes across the gamut in terms of, like, the different. Both texture and style. And so you kind of can just, like, she. You can't go wrong with, like, any of her styles. I really love it. And they're. They're so great. RLT just, like, spelled out like, the letters.
- [62:07]
Brooke
It's. It looks great. I'm on the website now. You need to get one of these. Yes. It's, like, it's hard to find, but if you have, like, a great. A great belt, a great pair of jeans, and a great T shirt, that's like, all you really. And then maybe a great blazer. Who do you like for, like, a nice blazer?
- [62:21]
Jamie Psych
Who do I like for a nice blazer? My closest friend is Allison Bornstein, who.
- [62:30]
Brooke
Is the Internet's favorite stylist. We love her.
- [62:34]
Jamie Psych
The Internet's favorite stylist. And she finds men's blazers off the real reel.
- [62:39]
Brooke
Yeah.
- [62:39]
Jamie Psych
Just like, designer men's blazers. And I think that's such a genius tip.
- [62:44]
Brooke
Yes. I'm always ordering Ralph Lauren purple label stuff off of the RealReal. And because I worked at Ralph Lauren for many years, I feel like I know. I just, like, know what to look for. And Ralph Lauren's never expensive on the realreal. I don't know why, because it's, like, such a classic brand, but it's just not. Now. One. One thing that I ask all of my. My guests, besides, when do you feel most beautiful? Which is coming as I've been interviewing, like, busy women, career women, mothers. Just. We're all just doing so much. It can be very overwhelming. I'm so curious to hear from people how they ground themselves, how they find time to, like, rest and relax. And another thing that you wrote that really resonated with me. You talked about how you're trying to figure out how to, like, live in your wins before 60 seconds later, you're just, like, moving on to the next thing. Right. Like, you accomplished the thing you wanted to accomplish, and then you're like, great, I accomplished that onto the next.
- [63:35]
Hannah Burner
Yeah.
- [63:36]
Brooke
Which is, like, we all suffer from that. But I also just think it's so hard for ambitious women to, like, rest and have a practice for rest. Like, how do you. How do you stay, like, grounded and calm?
- [63:51]
Jamie Psych
Yeah. Prozac. I. For me, what really helps is, like, doing some physical activity. I strength train. And even if I don't necessarily, like, want to go do it, I always feel better after, and it kind of just like, sets me in motion. And I feel like that is, like, an annoying answer because it's kind of like, okay, like, do you have time? Like, you obviously have the time, but I. I set that time aside. I am so strict with myself to make sure that time is put aside because I know that the rest of my day will be better. I'm maybe a nicer person to my partner. I'm more creative. I just know that they're the thing that. That specifically is really helpful for me. And then I. Yeah, I would say that that is kind of the biggest thing that. That grounds me. And I've tried more, like, holistic, like, meditation and breath. Not for me. And I think that we are constantly Tried to be. Trying to be, like, pushed into that as, like. Like a society where it's like, just meditate. Just, like, try. Like, you just have to keep going. And I'm like, no, it's like, it's okay. Like, honestly, my meditation is at the end of the night. I sit on my couch and I watch the Housewives or. I love tv. Love tv. I know you talk about all your shows a lot on. On. And it is truly my nervous system. I'm not nervous. My body just, like. I can feel my shoulders just, like, melt. So, yes, TV grounds me.
- [65:30]
Brooke
Yes. And, you know, it's so insane. We live in this world where, like, TikTok and reels are, like, so addicting that actually watching TV feels like you're doing something, like, better for your brain and nervous system than being on your phone. It's like, let me put my phone down and watch tv. And that's. It's like, you might as well be reading a book. It's, like, right next door to reading a book. It's honestly better for us to watch a show on, like, a big screen with our phone away than to be scrolling on our phone all the time.
- [65:55]
Jamie Psych
Yeah, totally.
- [65:56]
Brooke
And of course, famous final question, Jamie, when do you feel most beautiful?
- [66:02]
Jamie Psych
Okay. I thought about this a lot because I've listened to this podcast so much, and I never thought that this would be my answer whenever this day would come. I feel most beautiful at the end of the day after I give my son his bath, and we end up looking in the mirror and we. I have his toothbrush, and he's, like, in his towel, and he lays his head on my shoulder, and we both look at the mirror and we both smile, and I see that, like, we look alike. And I'm like, I feel really beautiful at that point. And I've never, like, looked in the mirror and even been able to say to myself, like, oh, you're really pretty or you're really beautiful. And I don't know, there's just like something about it, like, looking at him and loving him so much and thinking that he is just like, like the most beautiful boy in the world makes me, like, unbelievably happy. And it's just like kind of like a moment that we've kind of made in our nightly routine. And it's definitely. That's my current answer.
- [67:02]
Brooke
Oh, it's so sweet. And he is just the cutest, cutest little guy. So I totally understand that. It's like, yeah, you become a mom and like your, your beauty icons, everything that you think is beautiful, it's just your kids, like, that's just, that's the pinnacle of beauty for us. Jamie, thank you so much. You've also been just incredibly vulnerable and have talked about like really kind of intimate parts of your life story. So I would imagine that listeners may want to like, reach out to you, send you a DM. Are your DMs open? Can people hit you up and 100%?
- [67:33]
Jamie Psych
I would love it.
- [67:34]
Brooke
Okay. And your Instagram is J A Y C Y K. I'll link to your incredible substack again and the, and repeat all of those products too. Thank you so much, Jamie.
- [67:45]
Jamie Psych
Thank you.
- [68:10]
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- [69:22]
Paige Desorbo
Hey guys, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. And if you're anything like me, holiday shopping has officially started. And you know where I'm going. Ulta Beauty. They have the cutest gift sets right now like the Sol de Janeiro, Shea Rosa and Cheer Perfume Mist trio. It smells so good. I've been misting it everywhere. On me, on the street, on my pillow. It's a whole vibe. I'm obsessed with the Tarte Kindness Cafe collector set. It's packed with everyday makeup must haves and it's honestly too cute to wrap. And if you need a cozy little self care moment, the Moroccan Oil hand Care essentials kit is luxe, hydrating and smells delicious. Don't worry if you can't decide right now. An Ulta Beauty gift card is the perfect gift for everyone. So whether you're gifting your bestie or yourself, make the season yours and head to Ulta Beauty. Today, Ulta Beauty gifting happens.
- [70:08]
Brooke
Here.
- [70:08]
Paige Desorbo
Hannah Burner Are those the cozy Tommy John pajamas you're buying?
- [70:13]
Hannah Burner
Paige Desorbo? They are Tommy John. And yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts.
- [70:20]
Paige Desorbo
So generous.
- [70:21]
Hannah Burner
Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me and so I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting loungewear.
- [70:29]
Paige Desorbo
So nothing for your bestie?
- [70:31]
Hannah Burner
Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John. Oh, and you?
- [70:34]
Paige Desorbo
Of course it's giving holiday gifting made easy.
- [70:37]
Hannah Burner
Exactly. Cozy, comfy, everyone's happy. Don't wait. Shop Tommy John's biggest savings ever and get 50% off site wide@tommyjohn.com comfort.