Shani Darden on Retinol, Treating Acne, and Why She Doesn’t Trust Lasers

Summary

Naked Beauty Podcast: Shani Darden on Retinol, Treating Acne, and Why She Doesn’t Trust Lasers

Host: Brooke DeVard | Guest: Shani Darden | Date: December 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this candid and inspiring episode, esthetician and skincare entrepreneur Shani Darden opens up about her professional journey, her personal experiences with beauty, and her no-nonsense approach to skincare. The conversation with host Brooke DeVard spans Darden’s early influences, her philosophy about “less is more” in skincare, debunking beauty trends, strategies for treating acne, the truth about retinol, lasers and fillers, and how she maintains both her business vision and her self-confidence. The discussion is lively, personal, and full of actionable insights for beauty lovers, skincare newbies, and aspiring estheticians alike.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Shani’s Backstory & Introduction to Beauty

[02:20 - 09:12]

• Small town roots: Shani grew up in Plattsburgh, NY, with beauty as a constant in her household thanks to her mom’s influence.
• Early exposure: Mary Kay visits, homemade face masks, and early lessons about skincare.
• Modeling and representation: Shani didn’t feel she fit in—both with her mostly white family and community, and among Black peers. Hair became an important part of her self-esteem and identity.
  • Memorable moment: “My dad found out information that Lisa Bonet had a weave, so he was like, we are gonna take you to get your hair weave...He would sit at the hair salon with all Black people for hours and hours while I had my hair done. It was, like, the best.” (08:09, Shani)

2. Moving to LA & the Esthetician Calling

[09:13 - 13:39]

• Unplanned journey: Moved to LA for modeling (turned out to be music videos), discovered spas, and tried massage therapy school before becoming an esthetician.
• Found her path: Realized skincare was her calling after working as a receptionist and taking advice from friends.
  • “I was like, ding, ding, ding. And that was it.” (10:58, Shani)

3. Building Her Business & Celebrity Clientele

[12:08 - 15:28]

• Breakthrough: Fired from a previous job, encouraged by Jessica Alba to start treating clients at home, which “went crazy.”
• Small space = intimacy: Prefers working in smaller, private studios—celebrity clients are punctual and respectful.

4. Perspectives on Brand Ownership & Identity

[14:04 - 16:33]

• Black-owned brand conversations: Navigating identity in branding; didn’t set out to market as Black-owned, but became more visible during the 2020 social reckoning.
  • “At the time I felt very much like, oh, now I need to say that I’m Black owned? It didn’t feel good.” (15:10, Shani)
  • On consumers: “I’m going to buy from an expert...But I don’t know that everybody else thinks that way.” (16:21, Shani)

5. Skincare Philosophy: Less is More

[17:08 - 17:33]

• Minimalism: “I would say less is more. I just don’t think you need all of the things that are out there. You gotta really know your skin type. But it’s much more simple than everyone makes it out to be.” (17:13, Shani)

6. Shani’s Signature Facial & Go-To Treatments

[17:47 - 21:10]

• Signature facial: One treatment includes LED light, chemical peel (customized), microcurrent, and ultrasound.
  • “I just give one facial. The signature. And I do everything.” (18:05, Shani)
• LED light: Great for fine lines, pigmentation, acne, and inflammation—works best with consistency.
• Facial frequency: Once a month is optimal for most clients.

7. Acne, Retinol, and Product Recommendations

[23:24 - 33:47]

• Acne can be managed: “You can definitely keep it under control.” (23:36, Shani)
• Accutane: Supports Accutane in severe adolescent cases to prevent permanent scarring, but also advocates for topicals.
• Retinol evangelist: Shani attributes her youthful appearance to early and consistent use of retinol.
  • “No, it’s just. It’s just Retinol. I’ve been using retinol since I was like, 20.” (09:25, Shani)
• Encapsulated retinol: Designed hers to be gentle, suitable for all skin types.
  • “It’s encapsulated, so it’s really, really gentle. That’s the main difference...Over time you will definitely see a decrease in pigmentation, fine line wrinkles, all of the things.” (32:41, Shani)

8. Lasers, Fillers, and In-Office Treatments

[25:29 - 31:05]

• Fillers & Botox: Likes Botox, warns about filler longevity and necessity of skilled practitioners.
  • “You have to go to someone that really knows what they’re doing...I don’t think it dissolves, and I think you’re just packing on and packing it on.” (26:03, Shani)
• Lasers skepticism: Strongly cautions against lasers for people with pigmentation.
  • “I do not trust lasers...If you have any pigment in your skin...I think it will come back worse. That is what I think.” (29:07, Shani)
  • “Let me see in a year...That’s not the way that I work.” (29:25, Shani)
• Microneedling: Effective, but practitioner skill is crucial.

9. Skincare Essentials & Product Picks

[36:30 - 38:26]

• Routine basics: Retinol, Vitamin C (if tolerated), sunscreen (chemical preferred), calm cleanser, regular gentle exfoliation (chemical, not physical).
• Sunscreen: Emphasizes comfort and consistency (“I am like the president of the like Chemical Sunscreen is Fine committee.” – 37:03, Brooke)
• Exfoliation: Lactic, glycolic, and mandelic acids, not scrubs.
  • “I do not like a scrub. I am not a fan of it. And it causes redness. It can be irritating. Chemical is better because it is almost more gentle, but being more effective.” (38:11, Shani)
• Her cleanser: “Cleansing serum” packed with oat bran and hyaluronic acid, only a small amount needed.

10. Social Media, Trends & Misinformation

[38:26 - 40:14]

• TikTok hype: Warns listeners about blindly following “influencer” recommendations that aren’t suitable for their unique skin concerns.
  • “People don’t understand, like, you need to...use what’s right for you.” (39:00, Shani)
• Trends come and go: Skeptical about hot new ingredients, prefers tried-and-true actives.

11. Personal Care, Style, and Life Balance

[47:42 - 55:56]

• Business ethics: Avoids the “pumpkin spice” trend cycle, stays authentic, and prefers depth to superficial brand hype.
  • “I honestly, I think from my background and, you know, this is what I do and it’s what I really like to help people...I’m just never gonna be phony. I’m never gonna lie about something.” (44:30, Shani)
• LA’s hyper-glam events: Prefers intimacy and supporting friends over relentless socializing.
• Personal style: Signature look includes Saint Laurent shorts, blazer, heels (every day!), and edited capsule wardrobe by Monica Rose.
• Fragrance: “Carnal Flower” by Frederic Malle, per her kids' preference.
• Mom & friendship: Friends (over gatherings), daily calls keep her grounded.

12. Advice for Aspiring Estheticians & Brand Founders

[52:04 - 53:44]

• Reach out: Don’t be afraid to approach mentors for advice.
• Brand reality check: “Maybe let’s hold off on starting the brand right this second and take a beat. Because it’s scary out there and there’s so many of them...Start a brand because you’re really, really passionate about it.”
• Growth: “Slow and steady. Going really fast can only...Only works for some people...If it doesn’t work that way, then you’re gonna run out of money.”

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Memorable Quotes

• On beauty accessibility:
  • “When I was that young, forget it. I would have been like, mom, I need to stay home...Now, kids nowadays embrace breaking out, and they wear the pimple patches out. And I think it is beautiful.” (05:41, Shani)
• On TikTok influence:
  • “People will use anything that they see on TikTok...and you need to use what’s right for you.” (39:00, Shani)
• On retinol:
  • “If you’re over the age of, what, 25, you need a retinol.” (36:37, Shani)
• On lasers:
  • “I do not trust lasers...with a lot of the newer lasers that everyone’s talking about, I’m going to sit back and we can talk about it in a year.” (29:07, Shani)
• On patience and authenticity:
  • “Because I am unhinged. And I can wear something wild. So [stylist Monica Rose] just approves it.” (48:32, Shani)
  • “No one’s ever said [I’m calm and chill] before...My friends keep me grounded.” (53:56, Shani)
• On feeling beautiful:
  • “In my heels. Always in the heels. And your micro YSL shorts.” (55:06, Shani)

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Selected Timestamps for Important Segments

• Shani’s beauty upbringing: 02:20 – 04:30
• On representation and hair: 06:19 – 09:12
• Moving to LA, early career: 09:13 – 11:04
• Business breakthrough: 12:08 – 13:39
• Brand identity & Black-owned brand discussion: 14:04 – 16:33
• Skincare philosophy (“Less is more”): 17:08 – 17:33
• Shani’s signature facial explained: 18:02 – 19:13
• Acne, accutane, and retinol: 23:24 – 33:47
• Lasers & filler skepticism: 29:07 – 31:05
• Essential skincare products: 36:30 – 38:26
• Social media & trends: 38:26 – 40:14
• Advice for new estheticians: 52:04 – 52:34
• Brand-building insight: 52:46 – 53:29
• Personal style, LA events & staying grounded: 47:42 – 55:56

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Tone & Style

Throughout the episode, the tone is open, witty, and refreshingly direct. Shani Darden balances professional authority with relatability, often humorously riffing on LA’s glam standards while firmly grounding her advice in expertise and experience. Brooke DeVard’s curiosity, authenticity, and admiration for her guest set the stage for an engaging and insightful conversation.

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For listeners curious about skincare, the beauty business, or simply seeking honest advice in an overwhelming market, this episode is both a practical guide and an inspiration.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. Hello. This is Brooke Devard, and you're listening to the Naked Beauty Podcast. And if you're with us here on YouTube, you're watching the Naked Beauty Podcast. It is a kind of sunny day here in Los Angeles. We've had torrential downpours, which, like, never happens. Did you wake up from the thunder last night?

[B]

Oh, my God. I thought I was dying. The world was ending.

[A]

Yeah. It's never happened in the three years I've ever lived here. Right. Lightning, thunder. It was a lot I've got. Hence me being in, like, a trench coat and, like, cozy little drink.

[B]

But where are you from?

[A]

New York.

[B]

Oh, you are from New York, Right? So I'm from upstate New York.

[A]

Okay. So.

[B]

So we have those rains, and that's normal. So everyone's here. They're all wimps. But I haven't been there in so long that, like, I was the wimp. I was like, oh, my God, it's ending. It's over. Yeah.

[A]

Yes. I want to tell you about today's incredible guest, Shani Darden. She's an esthetician and entrepreneur who helps some of Hollywood's most famous faces achieve and maintain their flawless complexions. Her clients include Jessica Alba, January Jones, and Kelly Rowland, among others. In 2019, after years of treating clients in her home, Shani opened her flagship studio in Beverly Hills, which. The space looks so beautiful. I need.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

I need to come. I need to come. And if all of that wasn't enough, Shani also has her own skincare line, and her products are cult favorites amongst celebrities and just mere mortals like myself. Shani, I'm so happy to finally. Finally.

[B]

I'm excited to be here.

[A]

Happy you on the show.

[B]

I'm very excited.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Well, you know, as I was reading that celebrity roster, and this is just something that's personal to me with the week that I've had. Celebrities are really hard to deal with from a scheduling perspective. Yes. How do you handle it? Like, it's just a lot. It's like the agent and the manager, and they're available, and they're not available.

[B]

I'm so lucky because I'm on my own, so I don't have any of that. And, like, to the point where I very rarely have people that will ever come in late.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's very interesting now. When I used to work for a place, I was treated very differently, but now I just don't have that. And they're like, you know, it's just, like, such a small place. It's not like they're coming into a waiting room where there's people. Like. It's just, like, private. So it's like, I don't have that problem.

[A]

Okay. Love that for you. Love that for you. Okay, so you've mentioned you grew up in upstate New York, which, like, I don't know. Not the most glamorous place.

[B]

No, Terrible.

[A]

What was your perception of beauty growing up? Was it something that you knew you could do as a career? Was it something you were interested in growing up?

[B]

I was very interested in it, but, no, I didn't know. I didn't know what an esthetician was. I mean, I'm. I'm originally. I was born in Manhattan, but I grew up in a very small town.

[A]

What's the town name?

[B]

Plattsburgh, New York.

[A]

I think I know Plattsburgh.

[B]

No, you don't.

[A]

Really. It sounds familiar. Okay.

[B]

They have. They have a university there, but, like, past that. No, didn't go there. It's by Montreal. Canada.

[A]

Oh, way up.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You didn't. Maybe you heard. But no. So it's not the greatest. It wasn't great growing up there, other than my best friends that I still have to this day. But beauty was definitely important to me. And also my mom was really into teaching me about taking care of my skin. Ooh. So I always was into, like, making masks, and we had the Mary Kay lady that would come to our house. So, like, I was very into it, but, you know, I don't. There wasn't much to buy other than Mary Kay.

[A]

That's cool, though, that your mom exposed you to that from an early age. Cause I do that with my son already. He's five. You have two daughters, right? Yes, two beautifully behaved. Such. We had dinner at your house, and they were just like little angels.

[B]

That was because.

They'Re there. That's not the way it always is.

[A]

But are you exposing them to beauty and skincare and.

[B]

No. You know what? I tried to teach them very young how to wash their face with just, like, nothing that was important to me. But. But no, I think it took, like, obviously, it's what I do. So when they started to break out, of course I'm freaking out inside, but they had to deal with that. And when they were ready to get into washing their face and taking care of it, then they did. My oldest has always been very on it. I don't. She has her routine. She does it now. My youngest, it took for her to really start breaking out. Now she is doing all the things yes, but not like doing all the things like not going to Sephora and stuff like that. It's just like, this is my routine, I'm getting it done.

[A]

I mean, you've seen, I'm sure, of course, these toddler face masks that were released.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What's your take?

[B]

I don't know. So this is how I feel. I think that the whole thing got blown out of proportion for sure. Obviously I know Shay really well and I mean, that was not her. I'm sure her intention to have it get crazy.

[A]

But.

[B]

But I think we're just in a, you know, very weird space with everything right now in the world that I think it just got. Went a little crazy.

[A]

But. But would you agree with the criticism that toddlers don't need skincare?

[B]

100%. Toddlers don't need skincare.

[A]

I feel like it would have been cute if the face masks were just like for water. Do you know what I mean? Like, just to like the way kids have like play kitchens and like we had easy Bake Ovens.

[B]

I also didn't have that with my kids. So I don't know when you know a lot of people, I was reading a lot of comments, they were like, oh, my daughter wants to do this with me. My kids never. I've never experienced where they were like, oh, I wanna do a face mask. Never. I wanna come. And maybe that's Cause it's what I do. Like, my kids would never say, I'd love to come in for a facial ever.

[A]

Wow. They're missing.

[B]

So I don't. But yeah, for sure. I think it's already. Everything's already stressful enough. And you know what I love the most about kids today is that.

Kids nowadays embrace breaking out and they wear the pimple patches out. And I think it is beautiful. Like my kids going to school with 90 pimple patches everywhere. When I was that young, forget it. I would have been like, mom, I need to stay home. You know what I mean?

[A]

Or put makeup over it, which makes it worse and more inflamed and infected and.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think it's great to embrace all of that. So. Yes, I understand it. I also will say that was not the intention at all, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Now, growing up, there was a modeling stint, right? Yes, yes. But did you feel beautiful growing up in Plattsburgh, New York? No. No, no, no, no.

[B]

I mean, I obviously must have thought that I was somewhat cute if I got into modeling, but no, I was very different. Like, I didn't fit in. There weren't a lot of black people in my school, and I. And my parents. My stepfather's white. My brothers and sisters white. My mom is white. So I had. I grew up with hanging out with all white people. And then I had black people in my school that didn't accept me. So it was like both. And the white people would say, well, you're really not black. And so it was very difficult for me. And at that time, like, you know, I quickly, like, I got my first hair weave when I was probably 15, and my dad took me to Montreal, Canada, to get me. Found out, researched hair weave. So I was very much in a place where, like, I didn't fit in. So, no, it was. It wasn't fun.

[A]

Before 15, who was doing your hair? Who was teaching you about taking care of your hair or. Nothing? Because we didn't have YouTube. We didn't have That's. I feel like what people don't really understand. It was very hard to get the information to educate yourself about how to take care of your hair.

[B]

Yeah. My mom is very much into natural and all of that, so she wanted hair out and doing the things. But I was in a completely white world, so that could only last for so long. So when I would cry about it. Cause at the time, it was Bill Cosby. What's the. What was the show?

[A]

The Cosby Show.

[B]

The Cosby Show. Bill Cosby. That's what it's called. The Cosby Show. And who was it? Lisa Bonet.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So that was, like, my idol of, like. And that's what I need. And so I research. And by the way, I don't even know if she had a hair weave, but my dad found out information that she did, and so he was like, we are gonna take you to get your hair weave.

[A]

Okay, Go for it.

[B]

And so that's what I. Yeah. And he would come and he would sit at the hair salon with all black people for hours and hours while I had my hair done. It was, like, the best.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He's the best.

[A]

I mean, sounds like you had a great and supportive dad.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yes. Interesting. And then so did. But did you feel like when you did have the hair in, did you feel like your beauty was more validated?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's also, like, an interesting thing I can think about. Yeah. When I was younger, getting extensions put in and then being like, oh, I feel prettier.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is, like, still to this day, always something you have to unlearn.

[B]

I know. But, you know, we live in It's a tough. It's all tough. You know what I mean? And I wish that people were more accepting, but also, you know, it's just how I grew up from a very, very young age. And so it's kind of who I am now to a certain degree. Obviously, I embrace myself a lot more than then. That was part of the reason why I moved to la, because I was like. It was. It was never meant for me to be in a small town like this, so.

[A]

So when did you move to LA?

[B]

I moved. I'm 51. I moved here when I was 51. No, when I was like, 23. I just had. Because. I don't know, time frames.

[A]

51.

[B]

I know. I can't believe it.

[A]

Wait, so do you have, like, these deep plain facelifts that all the girls have?

[B]

No, it's just. It's just Retinol. I've been using retinol since I was like, 20. I mean, I've been using it since I was younger.

[A]

Shani, I had no idea.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my God. I'm like, are you seeing this? Like, oh, my God.

[B]

I like you a lot. You're my best friend.

[A]

No, this is like, actually, I'm like, kind of disturbed now. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm sitting next to a vampire. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So you kept. What did you come to LA for?

[B]

So I came to LA because I always knew I wasn't gonna be in Plattsburgh. Like, I was not supposed to be there. And so I. Someone found me. I was modeling in Montreal, Canada. Someone found me and they were like, come to la. You're gonna be a huge model. You've gotta come. And so that was just my. Like, I just was like, I'm going now in la, especially then. That's not where you would model big, you know, you'd be modeling in New York. But I didn't know that. And I was like, this is my way out of here. So I came here and quickly. Didn't get any jobs other than being in rap videos. Like, that's the only.

[A]

Which rap videos?

[B]

I don't know. I just did a lot. I just was, like, rolling around in my corset all the time. I did just all the videos. And so I was like, wait. Like, this isn't what I want to do. Like, I'm not going to be in music videos. I'm terrible. I don't even know how to dance. And so then it just took me a little bit of time to figure out, like, what I was Going to do. And I knew I really wanted to work at a spa. And so then I went and I worked as a receptionist at every spa. And then I was like, oh, maybe I'll go to school to be a massage therapist. I still hadn't tapped into. Oh, you remember how you used to like skincare? I didn't get that yet. Went to school to be a massage therapist. It was terrible. And then my friend was like, you should go to school to be an esthetician. I did. And I was like, ding, ding, ding. And that was it.

[A]

It's so interesting because that experience you had working at all of those different spas probably helped you down the line as a business owner. Think about, what do I want my front of house experience to be? What do I want the booking experience to be?

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

How do I want my spa to feel?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The massage therapy, which you said was a disaster. I've heard from people that have gotten your facials that you do an incredible, like, massage that, like, it's very, like.

[B]

That'S a special treat if I'm doing that to people, because I don't usually get.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I usually do a lot of, like, I have a lot of different machines.

[A]

Oh, okay. I'm so curious about your facials.

[B]

We'll get to that. Yeah. A lot of machines that I'm doing. I. You know what people do? Sleep in them for at least half of it. But I wouldn't say I'm the most relaxed.

[A]

Sing. We're getting there. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, I'm gonna keep you young, and I'm gonna fix your skin. Yeah, let's do that.

[A]

Well, now that I know that you're 51, now I must go and get an appointment.

[B]

You're coming.

[A]

So what was your big breakthrough? Like, what was your big moment where you felt like, okay, you could go out on your own? As an aesthetician, I know you opened your salon, but, like, I'm sure a lot had to happen before then. And I know you were working from your house. What was kind of like your big moment.

[B]

My big moment. So I left. I eventually went on my own. I worked for a place that I will not mention that was very big at the time, and I was eventually fired from that place.

[A]

Okay, so. So you will not mention it because they treated you wrong.

[B]

Yeah. And I'll never mention her. I wouldn't even bother because she was so terrible.

[A]

Taking the high road.

[B]

And by the way, it's closed down, so it doesn't matter. But I still wouldn't Give her that. But it was a place that I really like. I admired her. I admired what she had done and everything. And she just was crazy. And one day she decided she didn't like me. And we were actually very close. It was very hurtful, all the things. So after that moment, I then went to one other place, and when I moved into that place, I got pregnant with my second child. And Jessica Alba, who is a good friend of mine, she had said to me, you have this back office in the back of your house. Just start giving facials there. Like, nobody wants to go to this place. And like, everyone will come. And I was like, there's nobody's gonna come to the back office of my. You know what I mean? She was like, yeah, they will. And it just happened. It went crazy.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I've never seen more people and celebrities than ever than when I worked there.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that was probably my moment. That was my moment. And then, you know, over time, I didn't want to be there at all. I didn't want to be working through my house because my kids were there.

[A]

And then also, though, during the pandemic. No, not yet.

[B]

Pandemic. I had moved.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And Pandemic, I had already had my new space.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So I opened up my new space.

[A]

In Beverly Hills, 2019. Yeah.

[B]

And then a year after I opened it, Pandemic, the world shut down. Which was super fun, I was gonna say.

[A]

Were you panicked as a business owner?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I launched in Sephora, like the day the pandemic hit. Yeah. It was super crazy.

[A]

But it was a good time to launch Skincare. Right. Cause the Pandemic, it was like this whole renaissance of people being like, I need to care for my skin.

[B]

It went up and down. Yeah.

[A]

And there was also this whole kind of discussion about black owned brands supporting black owned businesses, which you've seen probably the rise and fall of.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's so interesting. I've been aware of your brand, but I don't think I. It has. It was never presented to me as like a black owned brand.

[B]

It was during then, because I was asked, because I've never. I've never talked about it, me being black or any of that. And then when it happened, like, I was asked to, like, would you mind saying? And I was like, of course, yes.

[A]

Do you know Leslie, the founder of Clour K L U R?

[B]

I probably do.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. It's like the. The chicest, most just gorgeous skincare black woman, Leslie. She's the Founder, but she has actually kind of gone out of her way to be like, I don't want to be the face of it. It doesn't need to be like this black owned brand. I know Nancy Twine, the founder of Briochio. I was telling someone that Brio is black owned and they were like, really? Briogio? I was like, yeah, like Nancy. And they were like, oh, I had no idea. I think there is something to be said for having your product kind of just stand on its own 100%. But also it's so important for us as consumers to know when there's a black founder at the head of the.

[B]

I think now, yes, of course it all makes sense. But at the time I felt very much like, oh, now I need to say that I'm black owned. Like what? You know what I mean? It didn't feel good. But at the same time I was kind of like, well, I need to sell products. Do like, let's do this.

[A]

And. And it is also doing a service to people that don't yet know about your product. Right. Because I personally love supporting black owned, of course, woman owned businesses. And it's so interesting also once you really start getting into who owns what, like learning that Tatcha is like not a Japanese brand, you know, like there's so many stores. Sol de Janeiro I think has nothing to do with Brazil. Really? I mean.

[B]

Oh really?

[A]

No. As I looked into it, there's so many. There are big corporations behind a lot of brands and I don't want to say these brands are soulless, but I find myself connecting much more to brands that have a founder and a story behind that founder.

[B]

I wonder if the world thinks that way though.

[A]

I think so. I think we're seeing just more and more. I'm sure you've seen these like displays at Sephora now they have the like meet the experts and they've got like Danessa's face, front center and Mario, it's like, who's the woman? Mary Phillips, who has the other. It's like we want to know who the people are behind these brands. It can't just be nameless, faceless.

[B]

I agree. And for me, I'm going to buy from an expert that's me. And someone that really knows what they're talking about. But I don't know that everybody else thinks that way.

[A]

Yeah, I think, I think a lot.

[B]

It's getting there, but I just don't know because I don't Even with how many different brands that are out there now, why wouldn't you want an expert? Like, anyone can make a brand right now. So it's like, I want to know. They know what they're talking about.

[A]

Did you see that Augustinus Bada released the, like, Dua lipa version?

[B]

Yes. And it's cheaper, right?

[A]

Yes, but it's cheaper. But a lot of people pointed out if it's cheaper and it's still effective, you're kind of like, cannibalizing your own customer base. Because I'm just gonna buy the cheaper one.

[B]

Of course. Yes.

[A]

It's very confusing. What would you say your skincare philosophy boils down to?

[B]

I would say less is more. Less is more for sure. I just don't think you need all of the things that are out there. You gotta really know your skin type. But it's much more simple than everyone makes it out to be. It's just right now we always need, like, this new ingredient to talk about and this. And it's very simple.

[A]

Remember cbd?

[B]

Yeah. Oh.

[A]

Came and went.

[B]

I'm so glad that I just knew. I just knew.

[A]

I was like, I'm not falling for this.

[B]

No.

[A]

I'm not falling for this. No. No. So if I were to come into your space, what do you call it? A studio.

[B]

I call it a studio, but you can call it whatever you want.

[A]

If I were to come into your studio and I said, I have huge fancy event and I need my skin to look, like, insane, and it's in two weeks, what would you recommend as, like, my course of treatments and, like, what kind of, like, facial situation would you do?

[B]

So I just give one facial.

[A]

Okay. The signature.

[B]

Yes. And I do everything. I do LED light, I do a chemical peel, and I have ones that I do that are day of. If I had never seen you before, I would not do a chemical peel on you. I do microcurrent. I think I said LED light. I have some ultrasound. I kind of do everything.

[A]

Okay, so what does the LED light do?

[B]

So LED light is, like, one of my favorite things, which you need to do at home as well. But LED can help to decrease fine lines and wrinkles, can help with pigmentation, acne, inflammation. It does it all. And so obviously the light in my treatment's a lot stronger than what you can get at home. But there's great, great ones for at home use.

[A]

And what do you like for at home?

[B]

Well, I have my own, so I'm gonna pick that. But there's other. There's other ones that are now coming. There's so many different ones out There. So as long as you do your research and you're getting a good strength light. There's so many of them out there.

[A]

I just got one. And from what I understand, I have to be consistent because that's my.

[B]

Which one did you get?

[A]

Shark Beauty.

[B]

I have a feeling that Shark is a good one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I love their little.

[A]

They have a bold under eye part. Oh, I dug and it will tell you.

[B]

I'm sure it's FDA cleared, so it's going to tell you like how many minutes you have to use it to.

[A]

Six. Yeah. It's like there's a six minute one, a 12 minute one. I just have to like, remember to do it and like keep it.

[B]

I'm by your bed. And the problem is it's just like not chic, you know, like where do you like. It needs like a chic stand or something.

[A]

I know. You need to. That's a great mindset.

[B]

I know, right? Because you need it by your bed. No one remembers.

[A]

Yes. Now, microcurrent is also something that's really effective.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But you have to kind of be in the hands of like a really good practitioner.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What does microcurrent do? Is it just like the lifting and snatching and sculpting?

[B]

Yes. And so it's basically like exercise for your muscles. Low level electric current. That's just like working them out.

[A]

Now, do you have clients that come to you just regularly? Like every month they're getting a facial. Maybe more.

[B]

Every one.

[A]

Okay. They're just. It's just like part of their maintenance routine.

[B]

Yeah. Because I don't really like. I have been taking some new people recently just for fun, but here I.

[A]

Am being like, oh, I'm gonna come and see you. And you're like, my books are closed actually, but good luck.

[B]

But I've been seeing the same people forever and ever. And then sometimes, like especially with celebrities, I'll get new celebrities during something. It's like. But otherwise it's the same people. So they're so on it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's what I love. That's the other thing about my facials. I don't. I'm not like a one off person. It's like we're going on this journey together. I mean, people will text me all the time saying, can you look up the ingredients on this product? Am I allowed to use it? It's like a whole thing. I'm like the therapist now.

[A]

How often are people going, like, what's the most often?

[B]

Once a month.

[A]

Once a month is the Most often. Okay, so it's not. Yeah, okay.

[B]

That's the most often I see people. Typically it depends if someone's like has great skin and they're doing all the things. Sometimes they'll come every two to three months. It just depends on their budget or what they're doing, where they live. All of those things.

[A]

Yes. And so during awards season and all the things you probably ramp up again.

[B]

Everyone always thinks I'm like extra busy for like the Oscars. It's just I see the same people.

[A]

Same people, yeah. And do you recommend for people that can't go and see Shani Darden? How far before a big event should you think about getting a facial? Like, I know a chemical peel. You want it to be very far out.

[B]

I do different types of chemical peels. So I have one that I actually made, which is my lactic acid peel, which is similar to the at home peel that I have, except for it's obviously stronger that I can do day of.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I would say it just depends. So it's so people ask me all the time. They're like, what facial do I ask for? From. Not me, but wherever. I mean, I want someone that does it all in one. You know what I mean? I don't want to go to a place and have to pick which thing I'm. I want you to tell me what I need and it's all like, assess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do it all.

[A]

Yes. I recently started getting lymphatic drainage facial massages.

[B]

Do you love it?

[A]

I'm obsessed.

[B]

I need to hear who you go to. I want to know.

[A]

Sheila Beverly Hills.

[B]

Oh, yes, I went. I've gone to her before. She's the sweetest, sweetest, sweetest person. I tried to steal her and make her come to me, but it wasn't worth it. Wouldn't have been worth it for her to. She's so booked.

[A]

She's so booked. She's so good. And like when she put her like plastic gloves on and like went inside of my mouth, I was like, oh, this is just like another level of. But yeah, it's like you carry so much tension in your jaw.

[B]

It's the worst.

[A]

It's the worst. I need to get a mouth guard. Actually. I've just learned.

[B]

So funny. My last client was just telling me how they she uses a mouth guard. I'm like, I can't do it. I have it.

[A]

That's fine. Do you grind at night?

[B]

Yeah, I grind all the. I'm probably grinding now. Like I'm a mess.

[A]

Something That I learned recently, which was like, a big light bulb moment for me, is that if you grind your teeth at night, it causes tension and pain in your traps. They have it all, so. And I'm like, oh, is that why, like, I'm literally always so sore and tense? It's connected to this. I'm like, now I need to get a mouth guard.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it can change, like, the shape of your face as well. So it's like, yeah, I know.

[A]

Now, do you have, like, a particular client success story without saying who the client is that, like, makes you feel really proud or, like, the results have been really memorable in terms of how you've been able to transform your skin?

[B]

Yes. I have two that are both well known and both huge. Like. Yes.

[A]

What changed? Like, what moved the needle?

[B]

Just having. Oh, wow.

[A]

And you were able. Cause people say that acne is, like, kind of something sometimes you have to live with.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, there are people that have to struggle with it for kind of go through that. Like, yeah, for sure. But you can definitely keep it under control. But, yeah. I have two. Two people that I think about all the time, and one actually has talked about it publicly. The other one has not. But I feel really good about the before and after was, like, crazy.

[A]

It must be so nice also to help someone go from, like, feeling like they always have to wear makeup to just being like, oh, I actually just feel great in my own skin.

[B]

The best. So I worked. When I got out of school, I worked for a dermatologist. So I worked on all different skin types, ages, and I worked on a lot of kids, so that had terrible acne. And so that's kind of where my passion is. Is, like, fixing people.

[A]

Yes. And. Oh, my gosh. And so many kids get prescribed Accutane, which is, like, so drying, and it's really hard, and.

[B]

Yep, it's very hard. I mean, listen, I'm a fan of Accutane, because my whole thing is with kids struggling with acne. If you don't get that under control, or anyone, if you don't get that under control quick enough, you're gonna have acne scars. A lot of people will say slow and steady. I don't believe in that at all. With someone really struggling with it, I saw so many teens that came to the derm, totally cleared them up, and they have permanent acne scars. So I'm a fan of Accutane. However, there are other ways to do it, and that's with a topical prescription there's just a difference. With the topical prescription, you are gonna go through dryness, downtime, all of that irritation. You're just going to go through that. Whereas Accutane, yes, of course that has side effects too, but whatever, you know, either way works, and that's just up to you.

[A]

Having your hands on a lot of Hollywood faces, I'm sure you feel filler. You feel things. One, do you agree in what they're now finding that, like, filler never really dissolves? Because that's something that I'm seeing, like, more and more of and more discussion around that people should be aware of. And the second thing is just what your point of view is on how far skincare can take you. Right? Like, when. When is it a Botox situation versus like, a retinol situation?

[B]

So I love Botox. I think it's awesome and great. And I remember how scared I was until I got it put on my. In my elevens. And, like, I was like, this is.

[A]

I'm scared of it as well, but.

[B]

It'S just inject me. But I also don't do a lot of Botox, and I am lucky that I usually have to do it once a year and I only get in one spot. And filler, yes, I think that from. I have many plastic surgeon friends, and filler, you have to go to someone that really knows what they're doing that places it well, and it's not something you do all the time. And yes, I think with, like, you know, people that do plastic surgery, doctors, I've heard that they literally have to, like, scoop it out of your face when they're. Yeah, sorry. Or they're, like, taking it out. So, no, I don't think it dissolves, and I think you're just packing on and packing it on. But I'm not saying that filler is necessarily bad. I think if you can avoid it, it's great. Yes. Skincare, there's only so much you can do over time. You know, you're going to age. That's why it's important to start everything young. And there are tweaks that you can do, but there's only so much you can do. Like, somebody came in today and she said, I'm starting to get jowls. I really want to do micro needling with you. And I was like, I think you should, but that's. We're not getting rid of your jowls with that. Like, I just want to be honest. Like, that's. We're gonna have to.

[A]

That's a Lower facelift.

[B]

Yeah, that is what it is.

[A]

So what do you think of prfm? I did it with Vanessa Lee.

[B]

I love prfm.

[A]

You love it. Okay. I only did it once and I like didn't see. See a huge difference. But I still have to do it multiple times.

[B]

So did you do it under your eyes?

[A]

I did it under my eyes, yeah.

[B]

So this is what I'll say. Everybody always says that they don't notice the first time. No one ever notices.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Apparently you need to do it three times.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. What I can tell you is the whole. So it's basically you're taking your blood out, you're spinning it and to a gel form. So it's your own natural filler.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I do not believe that it's something you're not doing all the time. But you would have to talk to Vanessa or Christine who works at my office, who works for Vanessa. She maybe would say you only have to do it a couple times a year. I do it way more than that. And I can see when I do my videos now, I get hollow under one eye and I know when I need to get it done again.

[A]

Wow. How often are you doing it?

[B]

Well, I work there, so more than the normal. But I'll tell you, these actresses that are getting it done, they're at the office quite a bit, so.

[A]

I know. Well, that's. People say like, oh, all of the celebrities, they just like look so good all the time. And I'm like, well, they're doing so much to look so good all the time.

[B]

They're doing all of those things. But I definitely don't think it's.

[A]

There's no risk though, right, with prf?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I'm sure. Depending on the person injecting it, of course.

[A]

True.

[B]

But past that. No.

[A]

What do you think of lasers? Because I'm always very concerned as a woman of color about lasers and scarring. But then I've heard that there have been lots of developments in the laser space that make it safe for melanated skin. What do you think?

[B]

I'm gonna say this because it's not something that I do. I do not trust lasers. I know there's. Now.

[A]

Okay, thank you for saying that because you're the first expert that I've heard articulate that so clearly because I also don't trust them. But the fact that you don't trust them makes me extra not trust them. Okay, continue.

[B]

And so I believe if you are very fair skinned, you are probably not gonna have a problem Doing a laser and you. It definitely will make a difference if you have any pigment in your skin. I think that it will help with any kind of pigmentation you have. And I think it will come back worse. That is what I think now with a lot of the newer lasers that everyone's talking about, I'm going to sit back and we can talk about it in a year. That's all I can say. Because I know a lot of people that have done them and they're like, oh, my God, it did. So my pigmentation's better. Let me see. In a year. Because everyone jumps on everything that's new so quickly, so fast. And everyone, you know, and it's just. It's not the way that I work. And so that's all I can say. And listen, I was one of the people that jumped on this laser back in the day that everyone did.

[A]

Which one? Morpheus?

[B]

I don't wanna say. Cause it's one person that did it. And so. But you can figure it out. I did it. It got rid of all of my pigmentation. And when it came back, it was wild. And now I've permanently, since then had melasma on my upper lip.

[A]

Wow. From just this laser. Yeah.

[B]

But it took a while. But when it came back, I mean, I don't.

[A]

I don't see melasma.

[B]

Well, it's covered, but yeah, okay, that's my take. But at the same time, like, I don't want to. You know, I'm also, I think, just too. I've been doing this for so long. I'm older. It's like I constantly see all the new things. Like when we went through the Morpheus 8, like, oh, my God, everyone now. Everyone says it's terrible. It's like, like everyone needs to do a little bit more research before jumping into something.

[A]

Yeah. And have you seen people that have had their faces basically permanently disfigured from doing this, like, deep micro needling? Have you seen these cases?

[B]

I have not looked at those, but I think with microneedling, I think it's who you go to.

[A]

It's who you go to. Yes, but I just. I don't know. It's your face, you know, like, you have to really.

[B]

They don't. People don't care.

[A]

It's not the time to bargain hunt.

[B]

They do. They do.

[A]

It's not the time to get a coupon.

[B]

It's not the time to get a coupon.

[A]

I don't get it.

[B]

Listen, I am with you.

[A]

Yeah. It's just scary. It's scary. Well, one of your cult favorite products is a retinol.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you attribute your youthful complexion to retinol. So why is retinol so important in our skincare? And what's specific about your retinol that makes so many people love it?

[B]

So retinol has been around forever. You remember like back in the day, kids having acne when I was in high school and they were on Retin A and over time they saw that not only does it help with acne, it helps decrease fine lines and wrinkles and it boosts collagen. And these people that were using it then now have not like aged. They look great. So I have always been a fan. I have always known about retinoids for a very long time. Then when I worked for the dermatologist, I got to see, you know, the amazing results that it had. Cause everyone was on a retinoid, including kids. Cause they had acne, but they were really sensitive. And so I was like, you know what? I need to make my own. That's an over the counter. And at the time there weren't many, you know, I think there was skinceuticals. That was it.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I made mine at the perfect time and it's encapsulated, so it's really, really gentle. So that's the difference, that's the main difference is that any skin type can really use it. And over time you will definitely see a decrease in pigmentation, fine line wrinkles, all of the things. So that and sunscreen.

[A]

That and sunscreen. Now a lot of people talk about, and this is for prescription strength retinol, but the purge and like the. Have you seen this? Like that your skin, Is that actually what is happening there?

[B]

So what happens is it's speeding up cell turnover. So a prescription retinoid is gonna work faster than an over the counter like mine. So yes, you will purge. Anything that's under the skin is gonna. It's almost like it's spitting it out. So that will happen. Some people don't purge, some people don't purge as much. It depends on your acne. But over the counter typically not depends on the strength. And I would say the best way if you're using an over the counter is just start with once a week at a day, each week, and then use as. Just build up slowly.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, I've been, I've been off of retinol for like two years because of the pregnancy, but I'm excited to use yours and like incorporate it back into my routine. Before, I was using altrino, which is.

[B]

Like the lotion based. Yes.

[A]

Retinol. Because the gel base was, like, a little too drying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A little too harsh and drying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So how do you decide there's. So there's new research that comes out. Always, like, kind of new super ingredients that people are excited about. People are excited about mandelic acid now. I mean, mandelic acid has been around, but.

[B]

Right.

[A]

How do you decide which ingredients to put into your skincare?

[B]

You know what? I work with a couple of chemists, so they're always coming up with new. You know, they'll say, oh, I really love this ingredient. So I kind of work hand in hand with them. You know, most of the ingredients that I use have been around forever and are tried and true, and that's how I kind of work. So I think it's just finding new, innovative ways to incorporate them in your products. But past that, I mean, I like to try things. Honestly, the majority of things that I try, I'm, like, not impressed. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So I brought your cleanser, a little travel vial of your cleanser to London. And I was like, what is this? I have never used a cleanser like that before. It's so the sensory experience is great, but it leaves your skin feeling really good. Could you talk to me about what magical potion is in that cleanser?

[B]

No, I want it. First of all, what's great about it is you only need a very little.

[A]

A little pumpkin.

[B]

Yeah. So it's got oat brand extract in it. It's got hyaluronic acid. It's very, very nourishing.

[A]

And what do you call it? That's like an interesting name.

[B]

Cleansing serum.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

And the reason why I said serum is because it's like a high concentration. Like, you don't need a lot. A little goes a long way.

[A]

Okay. Because I wondered why it was called cleansing serum. Right.

[B]

Yeah. And so it's great because you don't need a lot. I mean, it's not great for sales because you'll have it forever. But I'm just.

[A]

I've got the small travel.

[B]

I'll be reapping. Yeah, it's great. And I wanted to make something that was not only calming, but I'm a firm believer in cleansing morning and night. And so this is when you can use morning and night. And also something that really can take off most of your makeup. I'm not gonna say for people that have, you know, a beat, then you're gonna need something before.

[A]

I do love A double cleanse, like an oil cleanser. And then. But it's. Yeah, it's a really, like, lovely texture.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Your skin. And then I have your azelaic acid, which I haven't. I've been using it for a week. I think my skin looks good, but it's too soon. It's too soon.

[B]

I love azelaic. You look like you have pretty perfect skin. Azelaic's great. Cause you can use it morning and night. It's a larger molecule, so it doesn't penetrate as deep. So all skin types can use it. Even like my 12 year old uses it.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. What are things that you think everyone needs in their routine? So I probably. If you're over the age of, what, 25, you need a retinol or maybe.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

So retinol, what do you think people need?

[B]

Retinol. Vitamin C, if you can tolerate it. Very important because it protects your skin from environmental stressors. That's something you would use in the morning. You need a great sunscreen, a great, very calm cleanser. And you need to exfoliate.

[A]

Yeah. Now for sunscreen, do you have. I am like the president of the like Chemical Sunscreen is Fine committee.

[B]

Love chemical.

[A]

Okay, thank you. Right, because you just have to like your sunscreen.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Because you. I'm not. I'm not. Minerals. Yeah. I'm not fighting with the minerals that.

[B]

We had to do all that. Yes. I love a chemical, personally. I'm not saying that I haven't tried minerals that were fine. But yes, I'm all about chemical.

[A]

Yes. And I feel like there's this, like, people put such a premium on like a mineral sunscreen. And I'm like, like, okay, sure, if you're pregnant and like, you're very, you know, sensitive to those things. But even I had my dermatologist, my second pregnancy, she was like, if you want to use a chemical sunscreen, 100.

[C]

It's.

[B]

It's better than the alternative.

[A]

It's better than the alternative.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I did try really hard to do mineral. And I tried the ones with makeup in it and just like, it's just so much makeup and it's like, it's too much. It's too much.

[B]

And the fight of, like, is this gonna work? Is it gonna leave a white cast? Of course it's gonna leave a white. And it's just like, I don't wanna do this. Like, I just don't wanna be mad.

[A]

Now for exfoliation, physical exfoliation or chemical okay. And that's the lactic acid.

[B]

My triple acid signature peel is lactic, glycolic and mandelic. Also, I have a lactic that I use in my office.

[A]

Okay. I have that in here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Ooh, okay.

[B]

You should have that in there.

[A]

Okay. I'm excited.

[B]

Oh, it better be in there. Yes. And I. I do not like a scrub. I am not a fan of it. And it causes redness. It can be irritating. Chemical is better because it is almost more gentle, but being more effective.

[A]

What I love about your online presence is in addition to being a businesswoman and entrepreneur and esthetician, you're like a creator, you know, like, you're. You're amongst the people. Like, you talk to us, you hear from people. You're like in the DMs or in the comment section.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What are some of the most common, like, misconceptions that you hear or just like, as you kind of see how people are taking in skincare information, things that you wish people understood better?

[B]

I think the biggest thing now is that people use. Will use anything that they see on TikTok or I think that's the biggest thing.

[A]

Honestly, like, people don't elegant read I've ever heard.

[B]

People don't understand, like, you need to. Your skin is different and you need to use what's right for. For you. And so they'll just watch something. It's like, especially on TikTok, because you're being influenced by influencers that are getting paid to talk about that product.

[A]

Right? And it's always like a really strong hook, like, yes, you'll never guess how my skin transformed or like, stop what you're doing and buy this now 100%.

[B]

And I. I buy it a thousand percent.

[A]

So I bought One thing from TikTok shop that was a skincare product. I think it's called Jiyu J I Y U. There are these, like, toner pads everyone was talking about.

[B]

I don't think I did that.

[A]

I ordered them. They're fine, you know, but it was like one of these things. Like, so many people were like, before and afters, and I'm a different person.

[B]

I bought and knew it was so stupid. But it was this product that you could use that your blockheads would just basically shoot out of your nose. And I was like, I'm definitely. I ha. At this point, I have to just get. Was the dumbest thing ever. And I'm sure that they are just killing it. I'm sure everyone bought it and it didn't work right no, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, and I logically would know that it wouldn't work, but I still paid $50.

[A]

Oh, $50.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

So pissed about it. But I had to.

[A]

A cautionary tale. Yeah, a cautionary tale. Now what is your day to day routine? You wake up in the morning and you said you wash in the morning. I'm not a washer in the morning, but. And what would you say your skin type is?

[B]

Also, I am combo. So oily T zone. What do I do in the morning? So I cleanse. I use a vitamin C and I use oil free spf. And then I apply a tinted SPF on top of it because that's like my makeup. I put on mascara.

[A]

What tinted SPF do you use?

[B]

Nars have been forever.

[A]

I didn't know ever. Okay. Yes. Okay, the tinted spf. Okay, then let's.

[B]

And I try other ones, but I always go back.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then that's it. That's it. I put my tinted on.

[A]

No other makeup.

[B]

Oh, I do my brows.

[A]

Okay. Your brows are nice.

[B]

And I can I use hourglass. It's my go to. But sometimes like Kelly Baker has a. A little pencil I've been getting into. I'll just try them all.

[A]

Yeah. Are you doing a mascara? A blush?

[B]

Yes, Mascara. Right now it's Tower 28. Their brown mascara I'm super obsessed with.

[A]

Ooh, I love brown mascara.

[B]

That's cool. It's kind of my favorite wand.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

That's it. There's nothing else.

[A]

Lip product.

[B]

Oh, always Chanel lip gloss. But I'll do pretty much any lip gloss.

[A]

Okay. What's the Chanel lip gloss you use?

[B]

This is my favorite.

[A]

Ooh, it has a beautiful, like little sheen. What's that color?

[B]

I don't know. Cause my glasses are.

[A]

Let me see. I'll take it. I'll do something.

[B]

But it's my favorite. But also I like sticky.

[A]

Okay. Rouje Cocoa Gloss 726. I'm with you on a sticky gloss.

[B]

I love a sticky gloss. Cause I need it to stay there.

[A]

I need it to last. A lip oil that just like slides around. It's gone after 30 minutes. Like, no, I need like a shellac.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I need my hair sticking to.

[B]

I don't really care as well about a lip oil because for me, I like the way it looks when it goes on, but it absorbs in too quickly. Yeah, I want to just sit there.

[A]

Yeah, just sit on top.

[B]

Glossy all the time.

[A]

Yes, I love it. Now what's a skincare rule? That you think is okay to break a skincare rule.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

Or that. Or that you've heard as a rule that you don't agree with. Something that people just say is like, bible, this is what you have to do. And you're like, I don't know about that.

[B]

Oh, gosh, I don't know.

[A]

I mean, mineral sunscreen would be one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People are like, mineral sunscreen is better.

[B]

They have so many of them now. All these rules that they're doing. I don't really know. But I would say that. I would say that you need a mineral sunscreen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause that's definitely just dumb.

[A]

You just need a sunscreen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just need a sunscreen.

[B]

Yeah. And also, like, stop getting mad about. First of all, all these brands need to stop talking about that. They have a mineral sunscreen that doesn't have a white cast. It's so annoying. Stop doing it.

[A]

Stop saying universal.

[B]

So dumb.

[A]

In a universal shade, it's universal.

[B]

There's no way. All you have to say is, you have to rub it in longer. That's what it is. And some are terrible. And you could rub it in for three days. It's never working. But I'm just saying, some of them, it's just like, you're going to have to rub in more. I don't want to. And so I'm going to use my chemical. I don't want to.

[A]

What's your take on eye cream? Some people say you don't need it. I'm an eye cream lover, so I'm.

[B]

Obsessed with my eye cream. I was not going to put one out at all because I usually have people use my retinol under their eyes. And then you can layer it with a moisturizer.

[A]

Oh, and so it's. So your retinol is okay to put under your eyes?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's major.

[B]

So. And then I decided, you know what? Let me see if I can make one. That actually is great. And I did. And it helps. It reduces dark circles by 39%. It really works. It's super hydrating. You can put it on your eyelids. Past that, I will say the majority of eye creams I do think are pretty dumb. I think they're just moisturizers. However, I love an eye cream with a retinol in it. You know, I have my own retinol. Like I'm saying, like I said. But for somebody that maybe isn't using retinol all over their face but wants to use it around their eyes, I think that's great.

[A]

You've been so considerate about the way you run your business and thoughtful about each product coming out. I find that as a consumer, there are so many products all the time. These big fancy PR events and marketing campaigns and the TikTok shop of it all. How do you just, like, stay grounded in the philosophy of your brand and just not. I feel like you don't get swept up in just the craziness of, like, we've got a new pumpkin spice eye cream.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A Shrek collab.

[B]

And I don't think it's always, like, great for business that I don't get swept up. It's just not me. It's just not who I am. And I honestly, I think from my background and, you know, this is what I do and it's what I really like to help people. So I'm just never. I'm not a person that. I'm just never gonna be phony. I'm never gonna lie about something. I'm never gonna pretend. And also, in general, I'm kind of like a weird person, an introvert. And so you're asking about the events and all that. It's hard to get me to leave my house. So it's like, it's just not who I am. And I respect people's time as well and all the things. I'm not gonna ask you to come to something unless I need you to come to something kind of thing. I don't know. I'm just not. I don't know. That's the one part of me that's so different. Like, I love being in la, but I am just not very, very caught up in that world at all. I don't know if that's a good thing, though.

[A]

I think it is a good thing because it's really exhausting. There is an event every single night of the week and you can be, like, hyper visible and at all the things. But also for me, when I just think about what it takes to just get ready for one of these events, it's like a lot. I agree.

[B]

And I want to be there and I want to support people always. But I've found that, like, for a lot of these things that I don't want to do, if I really like the person, first of all, it's a good friend of mine. I'm going. But I'll also make sure I support them in another way, whether that is a post or whatever it is. Like, I know how hard it is, but, like, going and having these crazy dinners to Get a picture.

[A]

Well, also.

[B]

Are we okay?

[A]

Literally. It was literally my first week living in Los Angeles, and I got invited to a dinner. It was at Emma Greet's house. And I just thought it was like. I thought it was just like a dinner. It was just like a dinner. So I was like, okay. I literally went in, like, a sweater. Like, I was more dressed up. I'm more dressed up now than I was to go to that dinner.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I get there. Cameras flashing, Khloe Kardashian's over there. The girls have booked full glam.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Their stylists have pulled looks off the Runway. And I'm sitting there in my little sweater and trousers, like, mortified. And I said, never again, Los Angeles, will you catch me slipping? But just to go to an event, you are expected. Basically, people hire their glam squad to just go to a dinner.

[B]

Cause a lot of it is just.

[A]

For the picture, and it's just too. I just can't.

[B]

I know, but that's a good dinner. I would show up for that dinner.

[A]

Yeah. No, I mean, I went, and it was a great dinner, but I felt so woefully unprepared, underdressed. I just wasn't ready.

[B]

No, I get it. I get it.

[A]

I wasn't ready for that.

[B]

There's so many of them. Cause now brands are different. Like, you know, being in Sephora, a lot of it is a popularity contest. It's just a different world. And by the way beauty has shifted, it'll shift another way. That's just what it is. Like, when I started, it was. When I went into Sephora, it was very different compared to what it is now. And so it's like a lot of that. What's happening now is, like, the collabs, the two different brands, and we're going. We're gonna do this, and then we're gonna, like, make a pumpkin spice latte. And then the. You know what I mean? And it's all like, I'm old, and I just make really good products.

[A]

You make great products.

[B]

You know what I mean? It's like, I don't. I want a pumpkin spice latte. I don't want to do that.

[A]

You have great personal style as well. I always, like, love the outfits that you wear. Where do you shop? Is someone helping you shop? Or you just have, like, a capsule that you have help.

[B]

So now.

[A]

Yes, that's reassuring, because I'm like, you always just look so put together.

[B]

No, no, no. So I wear the same thing every day. My blazer and jeans My black Saint Laurent shorts. I wear the. I promise you, if you pay attention, it's every day of my life. Now, here's the thing. Monica Rose has helped me in the last couple of years. So what happens is she will come basically when I'm ready to shop any. So I do shopping on my own. But I will send it all to her and she will be like, yes, yes. Because I am unhinged. And I can wear something wild. So she just approves it.

[A]

She edits.

[B]

She edits and says, okay. And then she will come over and she will put a bunch of looks, and I'll just have those also getting dressed.

[A]

Sorry. She comes over and she puts together a bunch of looks from what you already have in your closet.

[B]

Well, now, we've been working together long enough that I've built this closet. And now she will put it all together. I actually have, like, a major spiral at getting ready.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's a problem for me.

[A]

It's a problem.

[B]

You know how some people just throw it on and they're like, yeah, that's not like. It could be a major meltdown. So I need that.

[A]

What's your like? Go to comfort. Like, I want to look chic. And pull together the shorts. These YSL shorts.

[B]

They're my work uniform. And then they can go right tonight.

[A]

Yeah. And what do you wear over.

[B]

They're just very. They're this big.

[A]

They're like tiny little micros.

[B]

Teeny, tiny little. Yeah. Almost seeing the bottom of my ass. And then I can go with a heel tank top and a blazer.

[A]

Who do you like for blazers? Because you always have a great blazer.

[B]

Monica.

[A]

So Monica, she makes the blazers?

[B]

No, she has her own shop. All of these vintage. Yeah. And it's cheap. Go on her shop thing. And the great thing is, is if you find like, a blazer that you love because you're here DM her and be like, is there any way I can just try it on?

[A]

Wow. Okay.

[B]

The best. And, like, $300.

[A]

Who do you like for denim?

[B]

So I don't wear a lot at all. These are my favorite. And these are ysl. And they were very expensive. But guess what? I remember cost per wear. Remember the shorts? I wear them every day. So. And also, these are very special to me because I actually saved for them. And then I had to get them hemmed and the Uber driver stole them. And so it's a long story.

[A]

And.

[B]

But I fought and fought, and you know what? I got my money back from Uber.

[A]

Really? I didn't Get. And I'm guessing that these are, you know, you don't have to say the price, but these are, like, $1,000 up jeans, which is. That's just the world that we're in now, where, like, a pair of jeans is just, like, $2,000.

[B]

You have to understand, my shorts were. That. They were probably more than that. I wear. Ask anyone. I wear them every day. It's disgusting.

[A]

And we talked about your gorgeous Fendi heels, which you've influenced me.

[B]

I know I'm gonna find the yellow ones immediately when I get home. I'm so glad that you told me. I needed the second.

[A]

Yeah, but the fact that you wear a pair of heels every day. Wait, wait. What's your sign? Are you Leo?

[B]

Leo.

[A]

Okay, Leo sisters, this is why I feel like there's just, like, a fabulousness that you don't see in la. Like, coming from New York, people in LA really just. It's the activewear every day. It's the sneakers and the leggings and the sports bra and the baseball hat, and I'm like, that's your outfit for the day. So I love that you put on a heel.

[B]

Oh, every day. Every day I am dressed up.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Always.

[A]

I love it. What's your fragrance?

[B]

What is the name of my fragrance? What is it called? Carnival Flower. Frederic Mall. I think that.

[A]

I think Frederic Mall makes beautiful fragrances.

[B]

I think that's what it's. Carnival Flower. Carnival. I think so. I think that's what it's called.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I dabble in other things, but my kids keep telling me I smell unless I'm wearing that one, so it's probably my favorite.

[A]

They've gotten used to it. Yeah. How old are your daughters?

[B]

17 and 12.

[A]

Oh, gosh. So they humble you all the time? My kids humble me every day.

[B]

Yeah. One is, like, really, really nice and just loves me so much. The little one, she loves me, but she comes for me, as kids do. Yeah.

[A]

So what advice would you have for aspiring estheticians? People that look at your career and say, I really want to do what Shani does?

[B]

Oh. I would just say, take all the classes. Try reach out to other estheticians you admire. Talk to them. You know what? Someone just reached out to me the other day, and she said, I've always admired you. I just really. I would love to get such. It was the longest email ever, and I just responded, can we just set up a time and I'll talk to you? And it was that easy. So just reach out to people, get help A lot of people will help. There's some people that are liars and will say, yeah, I'm supporting. No, but there are a lot of people that want to help.

[A]

Yes. And what about for people that are thinking about starting a brand, want to go into that brand world? Because there's a big jump between kind of having your own studio and then having, you know, products all over Sephora.

[B]

So I'm going to sound like an asshole and I would say maybe let's hold off on starting the brand right this second and take a beat. Because it's scary out there and there's so many of them. That being said, start a brand because you're really, really passionate about it. Don't start it because everybody else is doing it. Because it is wild, wild out there. And you need to really know what you're doing and you need to do your research.

[A]

Right. And also, don't build to sell. I think so many people want to launch a brand because they want it in two years time, just split it.

[B]

I think that people are learning maybe now and seeing all the things that are happening. I think they are. Because I do think it's slow and steady.

[A]

Yeah, slow and steady.

[B]

Going really fast can only. Only works for some people. It doesn't always work that way. And so if it doesn't work that way, then you're gonna run out of money.

[A]

Yeah. And also you don't wanna be burned out.

[B]

No.

[A]

Which leads me to my next question. You're a mom, business owner. You do so many things. How do you maintain, like, your center? How do you stay calm and grounded? Cause you seem very just like, chill.

[B]

No one's ever said that before. Well, you know what, they say that, like in interviews, but not in real life. They're like, wow, she's crazy. I would say Rose and my friends. Yeah, yeah, friends. I don't have a lot of friends that I like, hang out with anymore. Cause that's just what happens when you get older. Cause you just don't care. But I would say my friends. My friends keep me grounded. Yeah, but that's for all women. Well, it is. We have our friends. I mean, fine with the husband, but. No, it's the friends.

[A]

I know, but it's so important. And sometimes it's hard to prioritize, like just to hang out with friends. Cause sometimes I feel like I'm so busy and if I'm not working, then I want to be with my kids. And then it's like my friends fall to, like, the bottom of my priority.

[B]

List. Right. And so I would say you are correct and we shouldn't do that. And it's so important to prioritize your friends. However, most of my friends don't wanna hang out anyway, so we just talk on the phone. Like, I have one friend, Brittany, that we speak every morning at 6:00'. Clock. And it's like we've seen each other every day, but I haven't seen her in months.

[A]

And she lives here in la.

[B]

Yeah. Not at all. We don't even need to. I don't even remember what she looks like. We just talk every morning at 6 o'.

[D]

Clock.

[A]

I love that. Yeah, I love that.

[B]

And it's fine.

[A]

Final question. When do you feel most beautiful in my heels? Yeah. Love it, Leo, answer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Always in the heels. And your micro YSL shorts.

[B]

Oh, I can't wait to put them on. You know what? I didn't. I changed it up for you today, but I actually had them in my purse in case of a. Oh, I don't. I think I gave them to my assistant. But I did have them in here because if I'm not wearing them every day, I feel uncomfortable. I'm like, just in case. Like, in the middle of the day, I'm, like, overdressed. Like, you know what I mean? But the heels, the heels.

[A]

Love it, Love it. Shani, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you.

[B]

This has been the greatest.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, Great. And I'm so excited for people, if they don't already use your incredible skincare to get into it. And then I can't wait to squeeze into your studio.

[B]

Who are. Yeah, you're coming.

[A]

Done. All right. Thank you guys so much for watching.

[B]

This was our very first date. I didn't wanna make.

She couldn't stay out that late. Her mother.

[A]

Hannah Burner. Are those the cozy Tommy John pajamas.

[D]

You'Re buying Paige desorbo? They are Tommy John. And yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts.

[A]

So generous.

[D]

Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear, and best fitting loungewear.

[A]

So nothing for your bestie?

[D]

Of course. I'm getting my dad, Tommy John. Oh, and you, of course.

[A]

It's giving holiday gifting made. Easy.

[D]

Exactly. Cozy, comfy, everyone's happy gift. Everyone on your list, including yourself, with Tommy john. And get 30% off site wide right now at tommyjohn.comfort boost Mobile is now.

[C]

Sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones. Wait we're going on tour? We're delivering and setting up customers phones. It's not a tour.

[B]

Not with that attitude.

[C]

Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery Delivery available for select devices purchased@boost mobile.com Big news. Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones at home or work. Wait, we're going on tour? Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up customers phones so it's easier to upgrade. Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road. No not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work. Are you a groupie on this tour? We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour.

[B]

Oh you're definitely a groupie.

[C]

Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery wherever you're at.

[A]

Delivery available for select devices [e-mail].