Sir John & Brooke on Practicing Radical Self-Care In Work & Life

Summary

Naked Beauty Podcast with Brooke DeVard

Episode: Sir John & Brooke on Practicing Radical Self-Care In Work & Life
Date: January 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic and deeply personal episode, host Brooke DeVard sits down with celebrity makeup artist and wellness advocate Sir John. Together, they explore what true radical self-care means in the context of both work and life—going far beyond beauty trends to candidly discuss boundaries, setbacks, health, creative inspiration, and the evolving landscape of authenticity in personal and professional spaces. The conversation is a rich blend of industry wisdom, vulnerable life lessons, and practical advice, all delivered with camaraderie and warmth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Self-Care and Inspiration

[01:22–02:05]

• Sir John values "shared nurturing" in his community, emphasizing self-care as both discipline and emotional regulation, not just physical acts.
  • Quote (Sir John, 01:22):
    "We think about self care, we think about a mask or a wellness shot...but it's also discipline...how long are you going to let [something] bother you?"
• The aftermath of a difficult year urges both hosts to study how their “village” copes and avoids falling into emotional traps.

2. Navigating Corporate Spaces & Authenticity for Black Professionals

[02:10–05:39]

• Brooke and Sir John discuss the nuanced realities of showing up as one's “authentic self” at work, especially as Black professionals.
  • Quote (Brooke, 04:23):
    “The idea that you should bring your whole authentic self is just false...It’s still a workplace at the end of the day.”
  • Quote (Sir John, 05:26):
    “If you can’t translate well...if you can’t edit what this room needs or read the room, that’s the work for you to do.”
• They reflect on the balance between authenticity, professionalism, and self-protection.

3. Global Work & Cultural Adaptation

[05:47–07:26]

• Sir John dives into his work as Global Creative Director at Medicube, a South Korean beauty brand, highlighting how heritage shapes their culture differently than in Western contexts.
  • Quote (Sir John, 06:00):
    “One thing I love about Seoul...they have this beautiful way of honoring heritage...they cultivate their garden every day, every hour.”
• The challenge and reward: making the brand truly “omnipresent” and culturally inclusive.

4. Creative Revivals & The Role of Great Art

[07:41–11:43]

• Brooke's reflections on Chanel’s recent creative transformation, and both hosts’ excitement for genuine artistry amid media overload.
  • Quote (Brooke, 08:26):
    “You can have an old house...someone can come in and just reinvigorate something A to Z.”
• Sir John predicts a new artistic renaissance often forged in tumultuous eras, referencing cultural upswings following social upheaval.
  • Quote (Sir John, 09:19):
    “I’m waiting again for that resurgence of the art.”
• Both measure great art by its ability to endure and to be revisited, not just ‘liked’ in passing.

5. Setbacks, Mental Health, and Overexposure to Negativity

[12:02–14:08]

• Sir John speaks about consuming too much news and the toll of witnessing evil and trauma on one’s mental health:
  • Quote (Sir John, 13:29):
    “As an artist, you can’t lose that sense of what inspired...you have to have that little ball of light that stays lit.”
• Both hosts share strategies for reclaiming joy and resilience.

6. The Realities of Public “On-ness” and Fashion Industry Pressure

[14:08–17:32]

• Discussion about the hidden labor behind always being “on”—from appearances to Zoom calls, fashion, and the actual cost of stylists.
  • Quote (Sir John, 16:04):
    “Stylists also make these girls’ careers...they are the gateway for you to get a fashion campaign.”
• Both prefer investing in personal wardrobes over high-priced stylists, sharing practical tips and humorous asides on shopping.

7. Remote Work Challenges: Zoom Etiquette, Anxiety, and Generational Shifts

[17:37–23:41]

• Sir John admits to Zoom-related anxiety and the loss of natural feedback in virtual meetings.
  • Quote (Sir John, 19:16):
    “When we started zooming, I started having anxiety attacks...it’s not natural or healthy to have this transactional [interaction].”
• Both discuss camera-on expectations, adapting boundaries for early meetings, and the so-called “Gen Z stare”:
  • Quote (Brooke, 23:02):
    “It’s a whole thing...this dead-eyed...Gen Z stare.”

8. Health Scares and the Primacy of Physical Wellbeing

[24:04–29:41]

• Brooke opens up about her recent diagnosis with Graves’ disease; both stress the importance of advocating for one’s health, especially navigating medical systems as Black women.
  • Quote (Brooke, 24:04):
    “Your health is the most important thing, and when your health is compromised, nothing matters.”
  • Quote (Brooke, 25:18):
    “If you feel like something’s even a little bit off...see a specialist, do bloodwork.”
• Sir John notes men’s tendency to ignore symptoms, underscoring gendered differences in health engagement.

9. Boundaries Bingo: Setting Limits in Work and Life

[30:46–50:56]

• Brooke hosts “Boundaries Bingo,” presenting classic boundary failures. Both reflect on:
  • Overcommitting and people-pleasing (Sir John’s struggle).
  • Delayed text replies and the “art” of voice notes (Sir John as king of voice notes).
  • Working on days off and protecting weekends (Sir John is strict; Brooke admits to working anyway).
  • Attending appearances when unwell (Sir John shares moving stories about showing up despite back injury and grief).
  • Letting clients push past limits, and learning to advocate for oneself (Sir John candidly discusses refusing to work with certain challenging personalities, standing his ground).
    • Quote (Sir John, 44:31):
      “There’s no money that I would take for me to know I’m going to step out of my shoes on somebody.”
• Both discuss the importance of not ignoring gut feelings and the nuances of leadership, motivation, and forming genuine connections with teams.

10. Envisioning the Higher Self & Life Philosophies

[50:58–53:09]

• Lightning round: each shares their higher-self routines and boundaries.
  • Sir John’s ritual is opening the drapes and flooding home with light.
  • Both don’t tolerate disrespect and prioritize unique wellness practices (Sir John: Chinese herbs, “dried ants” capsules for zinc).
  • Their philosophies center on staying steady (“Rocksteady – Aretha,” Sir John) and finding beauty in feeling loved.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On self-care during triggering times:
  Sir John, 01:22
  “I’m taking notes from the Village on how not to be provoked or fall into the traps.”

• On authentic self at work:
  Brooke, 04:23
  “Your authentic self, it’s almost a sacred thing. I’m not saying to code switch...but I don’t think you need to show up A to Z...It’s still a workplace.”

• On health priorities:
  Brooke, 24:04
  “Your health is the most important thing, and when your health is compromised, nothing matters.”

• On artist resilience:
  Sir John, 13:29
  “You have to have that little ball of light that stays lit, no matter what happens outside your doors.”

• On boundaries and self-worth:
  Sir John, 31:17
  “I grew up feeling like part of my value was in showing up or services to other people...I say yes and it always messes me over in the end.”

• On client relationships and self-advocacy:
  Sir John, 44:31
  “There’s no money that I would take for me to know I’m going to step out of my shoes on somebody.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:22] – Self-care and community discipline
• [02:10] – Black professionals and workplace authenticity
• [05:47] – Cultural adaptation in global creative roles
• [07:41] – Artistic inspiration & revival in turbulent times
• [12:02] – Mental health, setbacks, and staying inspired
• [14:08] – Public “on-ness” and hidden cost of appearances
• [17:37] – Zoom, remote work, generational differences
• [24:04] – Health scares and advocating for oneself
• [30:46] – Boundaries Bingo: Practical boundary setting
• [39:00] – Stories of working through illness & grief
• [44:31] – Dealing with difficult clients & knowing your worth
• [50:58] – Higher self rituals & beauty philosophies

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Final Thoughts

Brooke and Sir John’s conversation is a masterclass in vulnerability and self-respect, breaking down how true self-care requires intentional boundaries, honest health advocacy, and selective authenticity. Their candor about industry realities makes the episode essential listening for anyone seeking resilience and true beauty—from the inside out.

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For listeners:
Expect to leave this episode with practical wisdom, hand-in-hand with laughter, realness, and two inspiring voices redefining what self-care looks like in both beauty and life.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hello. Hello, it's Brooke Devard and you're listening to the Naked Beauty Podcast. And if you're here with us on YouTube, you are watching the Naked Beauty Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Sir John.

[B]

What's going on, guys?

[A]

Literally needs no introduction to the Naked Beauty family. You are. You're a part of Naked Beauty.

[B]

What's up, cousins?

[A]

Yes. We're going to talk today about what's inspiring us, who we're becoming, what's been getting in our way, and the boundaries that are just really saving our lives right now. It's going to be a fun. Yes.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

I feel like this is really. I mean, of course we love talking about beauty and glamour and all those things, but, like, just lifestyle and mental health is really your bag.

[B]

This is. Yeah, this is. Yeah, this is. This feels good. It's timely, too, you know, it's so timely, especially as we. We close out such a tumultuous year.

[A]

So our listeners will be hearing this at the top of 2026, which I feel like is always this time for, like, do you do New Year's resolutions?

[B]

No, I try to be in that mind space daily, you know, of how to renew or be the best version of myself or declare better for me, for the team or whoever. I just feel like I can't wait until January. I know January can't wait for me.

[A]

I love it. Well, I want to start with what's inspiring you right now.

[B]

Love the shared nurturing that our community has done organically this year. When we think about self care, we think about, oh, I need to put a mask on or I need to, you know, a wellness shot or a juice or, or hit the treadmill, but it's also discipline. It's also, you know, it's not that you don't want to feel. You want to have your full range of emotion. You want to feel everything. But how long are you going to feel that? How long are you going to let that bother you, upset you? And so we've been in a situation this year from the top down that has been so provocative and provoking to all of us. And I just love, for the first time, I'm just taking notes from the Village on how not to be provoked or how not to fall into the traps or the ills.

[A]

Right. How to be so triggered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Well, we had the chance earlier this year to speak to the black employees at Spotify.

[B]

We did.

[A]

That was fun, but just about navigating corporate spaces as a black employee. And, you know, when you work with corporations, you're working with them in a very different capacity than someone that's, you know, an employee. But all of the same BS still applies, right? We all go through the same stuff of navigating, trying to show up as your authentic self, which I don't know if they really want black people to show up as their authentic selves at work.

[B]

Well, here's the thing. We're not all going through the same thing, I have to say. Some of us, you know, because some of us are doing the work to evolve. And so with that evolution, there's a spectrum. And so I'm going to get a different outcome when I'm doing the work, when I'm putting in the work, when I'm being more mindful, when I'm actually being more curious about what the team.

[A]

Yes, I meant that we're all going through the same thing in terms of if you are in a predominantly white workspace, whether you are the global creative director of Medicube, or you are an accountant, or you are an SVP or an assistant. Yeah, an assistant. We're all going through a lot of the same BS when it comes to these corporate structures that weren't designed for us to thrive in.

[B]

That's so true. And listen. And I know, you know, because you've made a huge shift and change, a beautiful, organic change, and flowered into a way that was so, so cool for the year that we've had. I'm so proud of you, you know.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

So I'm gonna go back to your question, but I'm just so proud that you had a baby.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

A beautiful baby girl. I mean, you. You know, Mavi is five now.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you, you went and you've done a really cool thing, work wise. And you've been so expansive and have helped so many creatives find home or re energize what they want to say with their creativity. And I was a part of that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I just wanted to let you know, shout out to Refinery 29, guys, we did that. Right? Top of Fashion Week. But you know what? I was thinking about what you said just now. And, you know, we can't always be our authentic selves in these spaces. I heard someone say this the other day. I didn't make this up. So this is. But I was mindful of what she said and we shouldn't. And I was like, whoa, I'm waiting for the hook to find out why, because that's not the place for us to actually totally let Our hair down.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

And so.

[A]

And the sooner you know that, the better.

[B]

Do you tell me that. So on your journey, when were you. I mean, you were in New York working for. Was it Instagram or something?

[A]

I was working at Instagram. I was working at Viacom, cbs. I worked at Ralph Lauren. But this idea that you should bring your whole authentic self is just false.

[B]

Yes, it is, but it's a misconception because we thought for a minute, we were told we absolutely were not allowed to, and then we went on this, I wanna say, rosy tinted lens bohemian idea of I'm gonna be my full self. I'm gonna be my most authentic self. Everything else is fake or it's not for me and it's just not that way. And how would you break that down in a practical way for someone who's just getting out of college?

[A]

Yeah. I don't know if in the morning meeting on Friday morning, I need to know that you're hungover from the night before. You know, keep that to yourself. Keep that to yourself. And here's the thing that's true. Do workplaces deserve our full authentic selves? You know, I think your authentic self, it's almost like a sacred thing. Right. Like still be yourself. I'm not saying to code switch or, you know, misrepresent yourself, but I just don't think you need to show up A to Z, the good and the bad and every. It's still a workplace at the end of the day.

[B]

Yeah. I love what you said just now. And if you don't have the ability to not co. It's not about code switch, it's not assimilating. But if you can't translate well, you know, if you don't have the ability to edit what this room needs or read the room.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Then that's the work for you to do.

[A]

Right, Right. Well, let's talk about translating a little bit because you've been working with the Koreans.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And spending some time in South Korea, which is like a totally different culture.

[B]

Totally different. I've been with friends, companies for so long, French companies.

[A]

Now you're working with Korean companies.

[B]

South Africa was my favorite. It's my favorite to this day.

[A]

What's that been like?

[B]

So one thing I love about Seoul, they have this beautiful way of honoring heritage. And this is the thing. When we look at, you know, when I always come, I'm always coming from a cultural lens, a black lens of when we look at our heritage, sometimes it's demonized, sometimes our Heritage isn't something we have to discover it. We have to go and find it because we've been separated from our heritage of it. And so one thing I love about going to Seoul is it's in everywhere. It's in. Even in the food that they have. They ferment their teas. Everything is about the belly, everything is about the skin. So how can you regenerate yourself from the inside out? So it's almost like they cultivate their garden every day, every hour between lunch breaks. It's just a beautiful way that they fuse it into the culture. And I found that really cool. I found it really cool.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. I should explain the role you've been doing for the past year, but. Well, you should explain it. What have you been doing with Metacube?

[B]

So I'm their global creative director. You know, we always. There's so many things going around like what are creative directors these days? But, you know, helping this company translate into what it looks like to be an American company also, or what does it look like to have a multi culti audience, you know, and for us to feel like we're on their radar is really important. Not just to me, but it's. It should be important to them, their CEO and. And their stakeholders as well. But, you know, that's kind of the goal. It's to take the idea of not just in diversity, inclusion as a buzzword, but what does it look like for us to truly be an omnipresent brand from comms to, you know, to the copy, to the way we see their advertising shot.

[A]

Oh my gosh. And they've just taken over TikTok. I mean, it's a brand that was like, maybe on my radar, like a little bit. And it has just exploded in the past.

[B]

In the last year. Right.

[A]

Crazy. This past year. So y' all are doing a great job, whatever you're doing.

[B]

Yeah, it's fun.

[A]

Back to the topic of what's inspiring us right now. Did you see this is again, people listening. In January, this is going to be such old news, but Matthew Blasey's Chanel show that he just did in the subway yesterday.

[B]

So I saw it all over online, but I haven't dedicated time to sit down because we've been running around this morning.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Tell me, so what was your takeaway? This is the first season. First collection.

[A]

Yes. So he. The. The collection originally debuted in September. Okay. But just getting a close up look at all of these bags, he's like, chanel. You know, we love Chanel. It's a classic house, but it's kind of old, dusty, fussy. Like it's not.

[B]

It's fallen short a few for a while.

[A]

Exactly. The way that I'm like, craving these bags, loving the silhouettes, like, just excited about Chanel again. It just shows me, like, you can have an old house that's like hundreds of years old.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And someone can come in with, like a really keen sense of style and direction and just reinvigorate something. A to Z. Well.

[B]

And these are also champagne problems. He was coming into the brand, right?

[A]

The brand. The brand, Right. And he did his thing at Bottega Veneta and made Bottega Veneta really hot and desirable. Just seeing his work just reminds me like there is true great creative talent. When we see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We can, like, feel it. That's how I felt when I saw Sinners.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, Ryan Coogler's movie. Like, I was just sitting there in the theater, like, wow. Like, this is art, you know, like, thank God. And we all felt it and we all got excited and it was like.

[B]

It was dissecting it on TikTok.

[A]

Right. Because it's like, thank God that some people are still out here doing great creative work.

[B]

Amen to that. And I always say, this is what I was talking about. I went to Qatar recently for Fashion Trust Arabia. Qatar creates.

[A]

You were out there living the life of a sheikh. Very fabulous.

[B]

Thank you, baby. But you know what's really interesting? And during these times, when you look at times that are tumultuous, when you look at. I think about the 60s, this reminds me of like the late 60s, Woodstock, you know, civil rights movement, when there was so much change and so much of a divide in not just class, but in generations. But the music and the art and the. Everything got better, the soul got better. So I'm waiting for that renaissance, if you will cliche to say renaissance. But we're waiting again for that resurgence of the art. And so my question to you, thinking about inspiration, do you feel like this media frenzy or obsessed society that we live and has that killed art in some way? When everything is translated immediately, I think.

[A]

There'S absolutely still an appetite. And because we are exposed to so many things that are so mindless, like the amount of brain rot activity online, when you see something truly great, it, like really sticks with you.

[B]

Okay, so. And I'm going to give you a push. Does it though? So you so. And, and I hate to say this because our attention spans have become like goldfish. I Know, so I was having a conversation with Jarara and some other, like, you know, Lacey Ratway, a few other really amazing editorial hairstylists who work in a business at the top of their game. And they were like, when you did a cover, amazing cover or some. A campaign or an advertising job, and it hit the market, or it hit. It would last a little while, Right. Even music. So I'm wondering, how do we. How do we keep that sacredness of holding art or the things that we experience to our heart and not get it washed away with, you know, the immediacy?

[A]

I think it's in how the people that consume the art cherish it. And I think about, you know, I have my. I was just Looking at my January 1990 issue of British Vogue.

[B]

Yeah. Who was in lookover?

[A]

All of the supers.

[B]

Oh, January.

[A]

Naomi. Yeah. It's that famous Peter Lindbergh.

[B]

Peter Lindbergh, yes.

[A]

Cindy, Naomi. Christy Turlington Orbe on hair. Yes. I mean, it's just like, the most fabulous image ever. But that's an issue that I cherish. I have, like, these old issues of, like, vogue from the 90s that I still cherish. I always listen to the miseducation of Lauryn Hill. It's like, it's on repeat.

[B]

Spice Girls, too.

[A]

Listen, Spice Girls. I love the Spice Girls so much. Even. I was just listening to Channel Orange, Frank Ocean's first album, always in rotation. It came out a long time ago, but I'm still listening to it like, it came out yesterday. So I feel like great art to me. Okay. It flashes by. You like it on Instagram, but it's like, do you go back and re. Engage? That, to me, is like my barometer.

[B]

That's a. That's a good test. I like that. Do you go back and re.

[A]

Engage with the art, like the movies that you go back and rewatch and the documentaries that you revisit or makeup trend. Right.

[B]

You know, it could be a pair of pumps that, you know.

[A]

Yes, Yes.

[B]

I like this. Okay, I'm going to use that now.

[A]

Okay. I want to talk about setbacks.

[B]

Tell me.

[A]

Yeah. Difficult stuff.

[B]

I love everywhere you took us earlier. We were ideating guys just about like, hey, what, you know, what are we going to talk about? I haven't seen you in a little while. It's so organic. I love sitting down with you. Right. Because I love your mind. And you have this Beyonce way of smiling through anything. I've seen you uncomfortable. You're still smiling. Like, I've seen you tired. I've seen you with labor pains.

[A]

I know you really and you were cheesing the full spectrum.

[B]

So tell me what we're. Take me through there.

[A]

Yeah, well, we're not going to talk about something. I mean listen, it's happy, but it's not that happy setbacks we've had this year. Yeah, I'd love to hear from you. I can share as well.

[B]

So my biggest setbacks have been outside in. Right. And so when I say setbacks, this has been a really challenging year for my mental health and of what's happening outside my doors. And so just not understanding how to process every time I see turn on television. And so I had this weird obsession with in my office and at home keeping the news on. I was fixing to it. Even though it's not good, I should turn it off. And seeing what this man can get away with that no one else can and the violent attacks that are normalized. But to see humanity in a different way. And I've seen evil this year. I've seen some true evil. And it doesn't feel good. But I'm learning how to deal with it and still keep my joy. And still as an artist, you can't lose that sense of what inspired. You have to inspire the people, but you have to have that little ball of light that stays lit. And so how do you keep your light illuminated in such a dim time?

[A]

Yeah. How does it manifest for you when you feel like you're overexposing yourself to difficult news?

[B]

It manifests. And I get a little shorter in terms of like. I usually am always able from a like law of attraction standpoint or vibrational alignment to go back to get to a really good space. My success depends on me being in a really good mental space emotionally, you know, or being ten toes down. And so I'm just noticing that this atmosphere, it's almost like if you guys can picture this, it's like a frequency that's killing the flies or killing the bees.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so this frequency is not good for the bees. It's not.

[A]

No, I hear you. And to your point earlier about smiling through things, I don't know if people realize like how on we have to be. Oh yeah, you can't really have an off day. You can't really have a day. Maybe you can't have like maybe a day, an off day. A day, one day, a single 24 hours and then it's like get back on it. But pretty much every day you've gotta like film, you've gotta be on You've gotta be at an event. You've gotta be in a zoom. You've gotta.

[B]

And you have to also have new clothes at times.

[A]

You know, let's really talk about that. Like, the amount of effort and time it takes to pull together a look, to simply show up somewhere.

[B]

I don't think people. At some point. At some point, Brooke, I had to talk to my. My agents or people. I'm like, you guys know I have to work. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm not a trust fund kid. I'm a hustler. Like, you know, I can't just. Everything you guys send me to can't just be, oh, show up and.

[A]

Right. Because there's a cost and monetary cost and heavy time cost associated with showing up to something. Right. Like, I didn't wake up like this. I wish I did.

[B]

No, I mean, you do look good, though, right now.

[A]

Right. But there has been work done to get me to this point. You know what I mean? That was good.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

But, yeah, you show up, you're gonna walk the carpet. You've got it. And here's the thing. I feel like you and I are like. Like, I never want to use budget. You know how much stylists are. Just pull a single look for an appearance is. Let's. We should tell people the numbers. Yeah, tell them 3,500 to up to like 7,000.

[B]

And that's for one look. For women, it's gonna be much more. Because I don't have any hair, guys. And I could do my own makeup.

[A]

No, I just mean just for the clothes.

[B]

Or for the clothes. And that is. And that's without alterations. Because if. Wait a minute. If you alter, do you keep the clothes?

[A]

Yes. At that point. Or sometimes they can do like these, like little tiny things that can be reversed. Okay. Okay. But yeah, it's.

[B]

I rather.

[A]

And that's without the clothes.

[B]

Yeah. I buy now, so. Because I just. I love my stylists. Shout out to all the stylists. I know we've had law on the show.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. No. I'm obsessed with what they do.

[B]

I'm obsessed with what they do. But I take that inspiration.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I go. I'll go right to shoe supply. Or I have a Turk, this amazing Turkish tailor, you know, So I would invest in my closet instead of investing in day rates. And I say that in full support of my brothers and sisters who work in the same adjacent careers as I do.

[A]

And what they charge is worth it because they have to deal with figuring out all of the clothes, all of the samples, trafficking the samples, bringing them to you, putting them on a rack, presenting them to you. Like, it's a lot of, like, manual labor to put together a look. But yes, like you, a lot of.

[B]

Stylists also make these girls careers. Like, yes, we're personalities in a different way. But when you're an actress, the stylists have become so powerful because they are the gateway for you to get a fashion campaign. They're the gateway for you for a designer to see you. Cynthia Erivo and Jason Bolden. I mean, Law and Zendaya, anyone?

[A]

Law's working with Ariana Grande now. And that's why she's been looking how she's been looking. She's looking amazing. But like you, rather than pay someone $4,000 to pull a look for me on top of the clothes, just give me those $4,000. I'll go to Neiman Marcus, I'll find.

[B]

Something fabulous, and guess what? Gonna love it even more.

[A]

Yeah, and also, I'm not gonna pay $4,000. I'm gonna, like, be with 4K.

[B]

You can take that and flip it.

[A]

Right. Well, also, you and I need to do Palm Springs Outlet together. We need to do the Palm Springs outlets together, the designer outlets. Because I'm like, you never even have to buy anything full price.

[B]

Oh, man, the YSL one out there is beautiful. Yeah, I'm so. I'm here. I'm here for it. I'm so here for it.

[A]

We gotta go. Look, we got so off track. We were talking about setbacks and here we are.

[B]

And so we were talking about setbacks. We were talking about how when you.

[A]

Have to show up every day.

[B]

So I have this thing, I always tell people I have to always show up guys on zooms with my camera on. So I can't. When I have a zoom, I have to. I go to my office. I'm lit really well. I'm lit for the gods.

[A]

It's like your lighting setup for your zoom.

[B]

It's like Madison Square Garden.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But I. I feel like, damn. So when did I get into a space where every day of, like, work for me is kind of the first day of school when I'm meeting new clients and meeting new teams. And I love people, you know, I love people, but if I just come on the zoom and, you know, don't have my camera on, they're gonna wanna reschedule. They're waiting for me to emote or give them an idea or take them somewhere or actually, you know, they wanna be Entertained in a way. And so did I do that or is that something that you have to. You do that.

[A]

I'm, I'm very pro. Cameras on.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because it's just like we're working together. Like, let's see each other now. I do have to. Like, I had a meeting today that started at 6:00am oh. You know, a lot of my team is on the east coast.

[B]

Oh, true.

[A]

If my boss or my big boss schedule something and I need to be there, I'm going to figure out a way to be there. So my rule is if the meeting happens before 8:30, I'm camera off. Because I really, truly am. I'm like with the baby, like, I just can't. I just can't with the camera on. Yeah, it's 7:00am it's too much.

[B]

That's healthy.

[A]

It's too.

[B]

And also that's too much for your husband too.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. I think it is though. Good. You know, so many people are working remote. Like, it's like, at the least at the end of the day, it would be nice for us to like, just see each other, like eye to eye. And also I feel like everyone's looking at their own little zoom square. They're not looking at. Do you look at other people? I like, I'm like.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

But you're not judging.

[B]

I started and this is the first time I've ever said this. First time I've ever said this. But when we started zooming, I started having anxiety attacks. So, like serious. And I talked to my therapist. I didn't know what it was at first. And so I'm so used to doing like masterclasses or being around, you know, talking on stage or being with people that my therapist said it's not natural or healthy for me even to just have this transactional. Okay. So all of a sudden I have 30 squares, don't know anyone. I can't read any data. I can't see if they're leaning in, if they're crossing their legs, if they're even curious about what I'm talking about. And so I don't have any of the emotion that I'm used to getting back from people. And so that was kind of a thing where I would. My head would be outside of my body kind of racing. Like what is everyone else think. Doing and thinking. And so in that space, to save me, I would put up just myself and I could talk to me all damn day long, you know, but.

[A]

Just you.

[B]

But I worked through it and you know, I realized I have a breathing coach now. Her name is Cece, and she taught me so much about breath and how to breathe through conversations. It's almost like, hey guys, take, I want to go on the hike somewhere. Hey guys, I want to go on a hike. Like, lead with your breath and speak with your breath. Because I was so shallow breathing, I didn't know. And so I started really breathing through my diaphragm. Yeah, I didn't even know I had a diaphragm. I did.

[A]

Yeah. No, it, it's. You have to like learn how to breathe. I spent so much time with my trainer over the past year, focused on breathing to prepare me for labor. And my labor was 10 minutes. And I was like, was it all of the breathing exercises we did, you.

[B]

Had a 10 minute labor?

[A]

10 to 15 minutes. 15 tops.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Which is insane.

[B]

That's insane. That's a superhuman.

[A]

I know. But there's a lot of breathing.

[B]

What do you think about the younger generation? I was having a conversation with a friend who I really respect and his brother works for him. And so, you know, we all employ, most of us do, younger people, we hope that they're faster, smarter, and they can do things that we can't do. So I look at. When I see them on this is gonna be a controversial opinion. When I see them on Zooms. And it doesn't matter if they're on my team, someone else's team, an agency, whatever. I am so used to emitting some personality when I'm on Zoom or smiling or being a little bit more present for this client. And so when I see 22 or 25 year olds just sitting there looking bored, you know how I feel? I feel like you gotta be a fucking rock star. You gotta be really great to look unenthused, to be unenthused, to be, to sit there like, you know, I'm not really impressed. You should be really impressive. You should have done some work or something. When you're not even looking like, I'm curious to what this speaker or this person or the boss, the big boss has to say, that is not necessarily a good sign, I would say, of a team. So I have a thing where when I talk to all of the youth, because I have so many younger creatives who look up to me, who always ask me for advice. Look enthused, you know, look enthused, look like you are curious, look like you have. You're going to figure out a way, you know, maybe send back and, or, or ask the person one More question about something that they said earlier. So. So they know that you're in dialogue with them. Truly. Because if not. If you're not inspired, you get sacked around my space. If you're not inspired by. With the work that I'm doing or anything that's adjacent to it, you got to go, that's the space that we should all be in. No one should be taking up space if they're not adding energetic lava, if you will, to the ground floor. I'm just. That's just how I feel.

[A]

Yes. Okay. So you haven't heard of the Gen Z stare? It's a whole thing that people talk about. It's like this dead eyed. It's like a dead eyed. It's like you'll go to get, like, your little matcha, and you're like, oh, can I get them? And they just, like, stare at you deadpan.

[B]

Really? This a thing?

[A]

It's a thing. It's called the Gen Z stare.

[B]

I had no idea. Okay.

[A]

And people are like, is it their, like, processing or, like, buffering time? Like, what's going on? People have noted this as a phenomenon. I think that you and I have probably come up in a time where working is a form of theater. It's a form of performance. Right. So you have to. It's not enough to be interested. You have to show that you're interested. Right. You have to ask that additional question because it's like you're getting another line into the play. Right? You're like, you're representing for your character.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And I think that younger people coming up aren't invested in, like, they're like, I just want to do the work and, like, go home. I don't need to. To put on this. This fake act. Yeah, but I think you do.

[B]

When you feel like you don't a. You. You won't walk through great doors unless someone. Unless. Unless you're Nepo, baby.

[A]

Yeah, but you.

[B]

But you won't be invited back.

[A]

Exactly. No, I completely agree. I completely agree. Okay. We were talking about setbacks. I've had a year where I've just realized that, like, your health is the most important thing, and when your health is compromised, nothing matters. Matters.

[B]

Wow, that's deep.

[A]

Yeah. How has your physical health been this year?

[B]

So wait a minute. You're such a young woman. Listen, that's old school. That's old school.

[A]

It is. Well, I've had. I've, like, I didn't even plan to get into it, but I was diagnosed maybe a month ago. Six weeks ago with Graves disease.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. It's an autoimmune disorder that affects your thyroid. It's like hyperthyroidism. Wendy Williams has it.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is there a spectrum of.

[A]

I have it pretty like, it was severe. Like, when they found it, they were like, oh, my gosh. Like, how have you been operating like this. Yeah. So I have to take it, like, much easier. I have to keep my stress down. I'm on medication now.

[B]

Does that affect. Where. Does that have a trickle down effect.

[A]

Outside of the medication is helping a lot, which is great. It's like before you get diagnosed, when you're not feeling 100% and you just, like, have all these. I was so hot. I was sweating. I was. I didn't feel good in my body. And so I was going to all of these doctors and they were like, we need you to do, like, hormone tests and we want you to see an endocrinologist. And then we got all of my labs back and it was like, yeah, like, you have hyperthyroidism. You have like a. I did a ultrasound there. Like, you have an extreme case of Graves disease and, like, you need to go on medication immediately. So, yeah, so I'm. So. I have an amazing doctor now.

[B]

It's amazing that you got. You caught it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

At some point.

[A]

Yes. Which is also another lesson for people. Like, if you feel like something's even a little bit off in your body, even a little. Because I had two doctors kind of rationalize it. They were like, well, you're postpartum, and I hate that.

[B]

That happens often also to black women specifically.

[A]

It does. And it was me that was like, no, something's still not right. Like, I want to see a specialist. I want to do blood work.

[B]

You know your body.

[A]

Yes. You know your body. You know your body. So. Yes.

[B]

Although men aren't the same way, though.

[A]

You don't think so. You don't think they're as in touch with their bodies.

[B]

We ignore signs that you guys won't, you know, because naturally our bodies don't really talk to us the same way monthly or in other ways, you know, you guys give birth and so sometimes our fucking arms have to be hanging off or chronic pain in the same, you know, area. Like, for example, I think when you asked me about my health, sometimes I'm having, like, stomach issues. So I'm like, you know, let me just, first of all, back in the day or so, get some ginger ale.

[A]

And just lie down somewhere.

[B]

But I take so many holistic things and you know, but also I'm from the mind state of. You can heal your body with your mind. You're gonna send it frequency of I'm more sick or whatever that looks like. Even the fear possibly can induce more inflammation. So I have to check out my belly is what I wanna say. Yeah.

[A]

Yes, you should. And inflammation was one of the things that showed up in my labs. So now I'm like, for the first time ever, which is such a shame to say it. My big age of 36, I'm really trying to not eat like garbage. Like, I'm like the sugar, the processed sugar in my diet, like, it has. It's had to go. It has to go. I just. I can't have a donut or a cookie. But you know, you have little splurge here and there. But I can't. It's just like. That's just not good for my body. So for the first time I'm like, really on my. Like, your body is a temple. Like actually the thing that triggers my symptoms more than anything is stressful. So even I was. I was supposed to be in Art Basel right now and I was. But it's like, you've seen my travels. I've been traveling every single. And I'm like, I can't go from London to New York to Miami, like, and back. And then back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, you know, I've got my babies and like, so I'm trying to like, take it much easier.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

From like a health standpoint and stress. I can't get myself stressed out.

[B]

And your body will, you know, will stop you. Your body will stop you when it's time to stop. But no. Shout out to the guys, man. I think that we should listen to the ladies because we don't really listen to our bodies in the same way. I don't know.

[A]

Get your stomach checked. I'm worried for you.

[B]

No, no, I'm not worried. I'm good. All is well.

[A]

But do you have a good doctor?

[B]

I do. And I have a really great doctor in New York too. But I'm just going to go to the one I have here.

[A]

I think that's the other thing. There's this girl that I follow on Instagram. Her whole page is about ADHD tasks that people put off because they think it's going to be so complicated.

[B]

Hi, guys.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's so mean.

[A]

Right? And she shows. She puts like a timer up and she shows like, okay, clearing out this junk drawer. Like, she's been putting it off for like three years, seven years. And, like, it takes her seven minutes to clear it. And then one of the things she did was she was like, I've needed to go to a dentist for three years, and I just, like, haven't, like, called to schedule it. Cause it's just like. Isn't it that ADHD paralysis where it's just, like, overwhelming?

[B]

It's the finishing of it, right? You have the idea, but you need to have someone else manage it sometimes. Like a husband or a girlfriend or somebody.

[A]

So she showed him how she booked her dental appointment in 30 minutes. And just. But sometimes, even when you know you have a suspicion that you have a health thing, it's like the overwhelm of finding a doctor, going through the medical system and, like, don't even get insurance involved. It's too much.

[B]

Babe, I sound nuts right now. Talking about. I have. I haven't yet figured out the stomach thing I was talking about, which is probably nothing, but I can tell you about every fucking dermatologist in New York or Manhattan, period. Every cosmetic dentist, where to get Botox where. And have sat for them. Isn't that toxic?

[A]

Right. And made time for it. Absolutely, Absolutely. Absolutely. That's crazy. Or even, like, wanting to. Right? Like, okay, I want to see this doctor. They're out of my. It's a great doctor, though. But like, it's going to cost this much money. But it's like, I wouldn't blink twice about buying a new bag.

[B]

Or a trip.

[A]

Or a trip. But it's like, it's your health that's the most important thing.

[B]

That's so true. But you, like, you know, my body's going to be here. This bag is on sale. My body's going to be here. But I do want to go to Bermuda.

[A]

Right. You know, but yeah, no, it's. You're.

[B]

You're.

[A]

I think that's been a huge lesson for me this year. And yeah, just. Even. Just going through, like, postpartum, all your body changes. Like, your health needs to be your number one.

[B]

Wow. How long does priority postpartum last? Just curious. Like, any range.

[A]

It ranges. Some people say it's two years before all of your hormones get back to, like, where they should be. But it's definitely the first year.

[B]

Definitely first year.

[A]

Wow. And a lot of, you know, women breastfeed up until, like, you know, three years old, four years old.

[B]

Whoa, whoa. Not black women.

[A]

Black women. Yes.

[B]

No. Yes. No.

[A]

I actually know a black woman who was breastfed until she was five.

[B]

Okay. I can't say what I want to say. Here. That sounds crazy. That sounds.

[A]

But listen, I live in a space of non judgment to other moms. So do you, if that's what you want to do.

[B]

I know the same moms that you're not judging. They judge people.

[A]

Probably. Probably. Probably. Okay. Should we play? I want to play boundaries bingo. Okay. So, Sir John, welcome to boundaries bingo. This is the game where we find out just how healed we really are.

[B]

Oh, man. If you provoke me, I'm not healed anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But no, we can play this game.

[A]

You're like. You're a sweet cancer, but you're like a don't test me cancer.

[B]

I'm going to retire, crash out.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You will go there if you were brought there. Okay, so I'm going to give you classic boundary fails and you let me know.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If you are guilty growing or if it's like a girl. I would never. Okay.

[B]

Okay. This is fun.

[A]

The first one is saying yes when you really meant no, I'm guilty. What makes you say yes when you. When internally, you know it's a no.

[B]

I think I grew up, you know, I had to learn, really, until like, I want to say the last five years or so, because a, I. I grew up feeling like part of my value was in showing up or services to other people, like love me. You know, I went through a lot of shit as a child. So, like, you feel like you showing up or the love that you need to deserve or you deserve actually is because of something that is not just by you existing or, you know, living. So I have not been a people pleaser, but I say yes. And it always fucks me over in the end. Not always, but sometimes I'll say yes and I know that it'll put me into a bad situation or I really. I don't have the time to make it happen. And I'll make it happen. And I'm the only one suffering. So I would say that is something that I'm still learning how to stand on that. And it's not comfortable. What I also do is I'll just ghost people if it's. And I. This is toxic. This is my toxic trait. If it's uncomfortable for me to say no, I just. I just. I just don't. I can't respond because I just don't want to, like, disappoint, you know?

[A]

Yeah, no, I get it. I feel like I've witnessed it myself where like, you want to be in so many places at the same time. Like when we were in Fashion Week, we really Wanted to go to, like, Ugo's thing. And then you had. I think you were, like, slated to speak at some other event for the Black Beauty roster. Like, you had, like, 12 commitments all at the same time. And you were like, kind of like, yeah, I want to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then, like, day of, you were like, actually, like, I can't make it across town because, like, it's not possible, even not physically possible for me to be there. But, like, I. I see in your heart, you always want to say yes to everything I do.

[B]

And also, you know, I don't have so many people around that I don't really care about. So I've done. That's the work that I have done. Anyone who I'm around or who I'm, like, adjacent to really, in any way, I really do care about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so in that space, one thing I had to also think about, and sometimes my darkest hour, is like, who's also showing up for you in that way? Does anyone sacrifice their comfort, their time, you know, for me? And it doesn't have to be transactional, but I think that we should do inventory in those ways.

[A]

I agree. I agree. Okay. Texting back immediately.

[B]

Oh, ah, hell no. What's the other part of it? The other side?

[A]

Guilty. Growing or girl, I would never.

[B]

I'm so guilty. Guys, I'm on house arrest.

[A]

But you. But you don't text back immediately.

[B]

It's not that I don't text back immediately. I mean, to text back, but I'll look at it. And I. But at times, there's two things that could come to mind. Peep this right. Either I know I'm busy and I can't engage, and you're gonna give me a paragraph, and you're gonna need some data back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can either give you a one liner or two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I either say, I'll call you back. And I just know I can't. I forget to call back possibly. But sometimes it's just like, I just can't deal with this right now.

[A]

I feel like the audience needs to know that you are, like, a voice note. Like, oh, yeah. You are like the king of voice notes.

[B]

Everybody says that.

[A]

When we first met, I was like. So I was like, why does he keep sending me voice notes? And now it's just such a natural way of communicating you as I just, like, expect it. But, like, I love your voice notes. When I get, like, multiple voice notes, that's like, ooh, I'm getting a little surgeon podcast. I, like, put them all on And I just go about my day and I'm like, I love them, but I actually don't like voice notes from anyone else but you. I love your voice notes.

[B]

Okay, thank you, babe.

[A]

I don't know if everyone needs to voice note, but your voice notes are always great.

[B]

Thank you. And also, I like voice notes back from people, especially because in L. A, I'm driving.

[A]

Yeah, you're driving. Yeah.

[B]

And so it's just so much easier to like chirp somebody remember, next l trip back.

[A]

Okay, Working on days off.

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

So you've told yourself, okay, I'm taking the, I'm taking a long weekend. I'm going on vacation. I'm going to go out to plan Palm Springs. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take like actual like vacation time or. Yeah, you're just saying, like, I'm gonna take Monday off as a personal day. But then something comes up, you get an email, someone needs you, last minute. It's a cool opportunity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you cancel on your day off?

[B]

If I go on vacation, I know for sure there's nothing on my calendar. And if there is an important zoom, I. I'll keep it. I'll honor that. So if, you know, it may be two zooms in that five day period or three, but don't schedule anything. I'm looking at anyone else crazy who's on my team. Why the fuck is this here? So there's nothing new going into it, but I also have a thing where I love my weekends. You know, we've grown up in this business and I have given my entire life to clients, to the ones you know, and it's not always a reciprocal relationship. So. And they'll take, they'll take as much of your energy and your time as you can possibly give. I've seen it drain so many of my peers to negative spaces, to mental health, to the fact that they've neglected their children. Because celebrities will just take your time, take your time. And so I don't work on weekends. And Larry Sims said this shout out to Larry, he said, if you actually see me working on a Saturday morning or if you see me working in before 5 on early call time on a Saturday morning, you know, I got a lot of money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the rate was crazy and I couldn't or I love the person who I went and showed up for on Saturday. Yeah, Sunday is, is a big. Hell, no. Sunday is sacred. It's the dial down. It's, you know, it's a restful thing. What about you?

[A]

I work all the time on days I supposed to have off.

[B]

Okay, so clarify days you're supposed to have off.

[A]

Like, I'll. Yeah. Or like, I'll schedule, like, a PTO day. Like. Okay. I actually have been just, like, working back to back. I have all these vacation days I'm supposed to use this year. I'll take. I'll schedule it. And, like, someone on my team will need me. I'll have to jump on a quick emergency zoom. Like, I'll just be like, let me just send that one email, and I don't take the day off.

[B]

Okay. So I want to give you just a little bit of. So I like that. That's really interesting because a lot of people who are creatives or who work for themselves or founders. I've never heard of a pto.

[A]

PTO is like a very. That's a very, like, corporate structure.

[B]

It is. And it probably comes with benefits.

[A]

Yes, yes. Yeah. You get a certain amount of days every year that you can take as paid time off.

[B]

Okay. And then also in your vacation. So I think we're similar in a sense. What? Like, if you went on vacation, you were on vacation, you went on a beautiful vacation to. Where'd you go?

[A]

Ibiza. Ibiza.

[B]

Yeah. So that one.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So when you were in Spain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Balearic Islands, I believe. Right. Did you feel like. Also completely different time zone? So, yes, everyone's in bed, but I still.

[A]

I still worked. I had those beauty awards. I had to, like, get on a zoom, present an award to see someone.

[B]

Right. And so that was scheduled before you jumped on a flight?

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it had been. It was, like, probably on my calendar for three months.

[B]

Okay. So I think we're in the same place. We honor the prior commitments.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We can make time for them, but nothing new and no surprises.

[A]

Yes. And I'm. And I don't have any desire to check my email. I'm not like, oh, I got to check my email. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I don't care about me.

[B]

They would have to text you to find you.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Doing an appearance or doing glam or. Yeah. Showing up to something, even if you're sick and not feeling well.

[B]

Ooh, that's. That's serious. I'll go back to first. Before I was doing any appearance of anything, before anybody wants to see my face, I was a servant to, you know, talent, to stars or, you know, the people. And so I would have to be really sick to call off. And some of the time, like.

[A]

And how Sick. Because I feel like you kind of can't be sick. Like you kind of can't call off. I mean, have you had to do that?

[B]

I've so two times that I couldn't make it and they understood. Right? So one time. And also we are always so scared we're going to get our clients, our women, our girls, you know, sick. So we. We are hyper. We're always washing our hands if we feel a sneeze coming on. We're trying to take something. We're trying to not even sniffle around our clients because they would be get them out of here, you know. So I remember I was in Australia, we were in Sydney. We were filming the self titled album. And I'm in this video driving Beyonce around. Actually, it's called no Angel.

[A]

Oh, wow. You're driving in that car.

[B]

Yeah, I'm in the black car with a black hoodie and black baseball cap and she's leaning out the window.

[A]

Wait, I literally need to rewatch this. I did not realize that was you.

[B]

So I had some back issues and I literally couldn't. It was like pinching nerve. It was the most painful thing. I couldn't even breathe in deep, but I felt like something was trying to puncture my lung. But it was really my grips needed to be cracked or whatever that was. Tears were running down my eyes. I was in so much pain and I was trying to not show it.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

And so she's like, what's wrong with him? Like, you know, what's. She was talking to Ty at the time and Ty was like, oh child. His. His back. He threw his back out. And so she, you know, she got me someone in and it cracked my back. It lit up like the 4th of July, you know, I felt so much ease. But in that moment, I didn't even want to ask for help. I just felt like I got to get this done. Everyone's gonna look at me like, I can't let the team down. So you'll go in literally with your leg hanging off, right? And then the next time I have this other story rip you. But I was booked for British Vogue cover and there's a pre light day you have to do. You go in, you start to set everything at where interval. This is what Raphael shot be for. The British vocal cover is beautiful and so drawers don't make. I mean hair. I get a phone call that day. I'm sorry. The night before the pre light that one of my best friends, his name is AJ Crimson, drowned and passed away. He's amazing. Everyone, if you guys are fans of beauty and makeup, you should know who A.J. crimson is. And so he was just such a, you know, integral part of my life for so long, and he was my first agent. He taught me everything in the game. He, like, you know, he had these amazing lines. He was a founder before, way, way before founders. Kissable Kutzor. And so say his name. Say his name. Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so I. We deal with death in a weird way. All of us still different with grief. And so I. When I found out, I was, like, I was shocked, but I didn't know how to process it. I wasn't processing. I didn't cry. I was just like. I didn't. So the next morning, on my way to work for the pre light, which is. You have to be there. This is British Vogue, guys. All the editors. You guys know what this gives.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

And so Beyonce's, you know, Julia's there. Everyone's gonna be there, right? So I'm in the shower, and I just started bawling, like, uncontrollable. It hit me, the gravity of I lost my friend, you know? And I'm talking about ugly cry, you know? So I called my agent, and I was like, I just don't know what to do. I just don't know how to do this, you know? And I called Jawara. I called, you know, Yvette, and everyone was like, we totally understand. Like, this is one of those times when. Guess what? Call it. Call it. And I felt so protected. I felt safe.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because I. To go in that day, would it really been so destructive for me internally, you know?

[A]

What you're saying reminds me of a quote that I heard once that said, treat everyone as though they're grieving. Meaning everyone around you could be in the process of grieving or is in the process of grieving something or someone or a pet or a, you know, loss. Yes. Yes. And unfortunately, when you do lose people, you have to still wake up the next day and do things, you know?

[B]

Yeah. And no one has a playbook for it, you know? So that is one thing I would say to anyone who happens to have the ability to take a moment. Like, you know, taking a moment for yourself. We're talking about these micro moments. Take that moment, man. Take that moment.

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay.

[B]

Thank you for letting me tell. I forgot all about that story, man.

[A]

Wow. Yeah. I know. It's a really powerful story. It's a really powerful story, and I'm so happy that they gave you the space to grieve yeah. Okay. Letting clients push your limit. Are you guilty of it, or is that something you've. You've evolved past?

[B]

Got the villain laugh. I'm like a classic. I'm a. I'm Prince Charming, and I'm a classic Disney villain as well. But aren't they both. Aren't all villains? Didn't they always come from good intentions or. So I don't know. So what's the question again? Sorry.

[A]

Letting clients push you. Yeah, Push your limits, guys.

[B]

I. I feel really blessed. I'll just say that I'm extremely, extremely respectful. You know, I'm extremely. I'm the most diplomatic person on set, hands down. It's my thing. It's my calling card. And also, I care so much about other people. So when someone infringes or makes me feel uncomfortable, I don't play it down because I know. I admit, and I give so much, and I'm so thoughtful. I'm so curious about how can this team win? How can I make you happy? You know? And I'm old school. I was trained as an old school person. So if you dip, I dip. We dip. And I say that because also, that's Harlem in me too. I've been so many times, when I think about, have people taking me out of the box doing the work. Looks like you might feel some way. And you're allowed to feel all of your emotions to full range, but not for long, you know? And so I don't yell. I can't really raise my voice like that. My mom. I grew up in a loud house, you know, but I don't know how to yell. But I'll be disappointed. And you'll feel the heat. You will feel it in that motherfucking room. And so one time, I remember, I can be as transparent as I want to here.

[A]

Right? Yes, of course.

[B]

So I remember Hype Williams was like, sir John, I want you to go. I love him. He's a great, you know, the director. I want you to do some makeup for Nicki Minaj.

[A]

And, you know, I'm already scared.

[B]

And I was like, I'm already nervous. He asked me, can you. Can I do something for him? I'm like, yeah, bro, whatever you need, whatever you need for me, just. Just name it. It's all good. And he's like, can you fly to Miami tomorrow morning? Just name your rate. What? You know, she'll pay. I hype. Hell no. No. I have turned her down more times than a little bit. Shout out to the barbs, whatever. I love all you guys. I just don't think she's a really nice human. And I won't be put in a situation where I'm going to even allow. If I know that I'm not going to allow you to push me in any way. And I'm going to lose some of myself, you know.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If I ever did. First of all, she pays the most. I mean, at the time. At the time.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

And I've seen her abuse so many of my peers. Abuse, abuse. And I'm keeping it real. And I'm just like, you know what? To suffer that much abuse, a. It's just not okay.

[A]

No. And I'm not even making this specific to her, but when you say abuse.

[B]

The stuff that she Is it like.

[A]

Throwing chairs, yelling at people.

[B]

I don't like my lip gloss. I'm gonna wipe it on your shirt. I don't like that. After you set everything up for me to do amazing video. Everything is set. And now you say, I miss my dad's wake. I have to go to the funeral. He's already dead, isn't he? Like, I can go. I can go. I'm trying to give you an edited version.

[A]

She's missing, like, a sensitivity chip in her brain. There's something wrong.

[B]

I would think that, you know, having a child would season or color someone in a way, but I say that to say everyone has a price, and there's no money that I would take for me to know I'm a. Step out on my shoes. Step out my shoes on somebody. And so I don't do stuff like that. And then also. Yeah. So I hope I gave you the answer to your question. But I also have a really beautiful way. I love dialogue. So when I'm being challenged, I'm gonna get really calm, and I'm gonna take you into a place. I might provoke you, but I'm not gonna yell. I'm gonna push you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Oh, I'm gonna push your ass.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

But I'm gonna be your sparring partner here. For you to know what you're doing is unacceptable.

[A]

It's unacceptable.

[B]

It's unacceptable.

[A]

Yes. Yes. No. I think that there's so much to be said for standing up for yourself without coming out of your character.

[B]

Advocate. Advocate, yeah.

[A]

Advocating for yourself.

[B]

I was. Man. I was in New York, and we were on set. Sorry, I keep talking about these jobs and stuff. And so this younger makeup assistant, she was like, so, John, I wouldn't have known how to handle that situation on set when you have to Go up to Steven Meisel or Mario Testino and tell them you don't like the lighting for this black woman or whatever. And it's diplomacy. If you understand how to be a diplomatic conversationalist or in dialogue, it's really. Everybody wins, Right? But sometimes. Sometimes. Don't lose the thug in you. I'm going to tell you, you're going to need her or him.

[A]

Straight. Straight from Sir John.

[B]

Am I right, my brother? Okay. All right.

[A]

Okay, last one. Ignoring gut feelings.

[B]

Oh, wow. I'm gonna let you take that first, babe. I feel like women have the best intuition, so tell me about this.

[A]

I'm guilty of it, okay? But every time I ignore, my gut feeling always comes back. And I. It's always like, brooke, you knew this. You had the feeling that this was off, and you did it anyway, and you ignored your gut feeling. And now look where we are.

[B]

What does a gut feeling show up as?

[A]

I think with people. You know, I feel like I can. Like, maybe it's like, oh, you know what? Like, take a chance on this person. Like, they're. You don't feel a hundred percent, like, secure with them, but, like, they seem nice enough and you kind of let them in.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they show you that, like, yeah, actually, you shouldn't have trusted them in the first place.

[B]

Okay. And not to sound like a therapist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But my therapist says, you know, when you're sensing it, is it in here? Is it in. Is it in the belly?

[A]

It's. It's in. Yeah. It's in my, like, physical body. It's your spirit. That's true.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

And you know what I also think? I think when people aren't comfortable with themselves, it makes you feel uncomfortable. Have you ever been around someone that you just feel uncomfortable? It's like you're discomfort with yourself is making. Now I certainly. Now I feel awkward and, like, uncomfortable because it's like, you're uncomfortable. So now I feel uncomfortable.

[B]

But that's science. You know that, right? That's. There's a word for it.

[A]

Transitive property, energy transfer.

[B]

I don't know, transmuting energy. And so we're like the five people that we see. Or, you know, you're not aligned in that space, but. Okay. And I have to. I know you want to wrap soon, but I want to ask you that question that you asked me. What do you do when someone crosses your boundary? How do you, like, handle it? And also in different ways. You're kind of in so many different pockets now. So, you know, teams like when you want to push the teams in the best way or when you are not liking what your girlfriends are doing, like, what does it give?

[A]

Yeah. You know, I think that when it comes to motivating people in teams, it's like understanding. Not everyone has the same motivations. Not everyone wants what you want. Not everyone approaches the work the way that you approach the work. So really understanding on, like, an individual level what motivates people. And I think if you're working with the team, you really do have to, like, take the time to get to know your team members. Obviously takes a lot of time to do, like, one to ones with, like, every single person that reports to you. But for me, it's really important because it's like, I need to know who you are as a person. I've heard that there are two types of people. There are people that are like, we need to be friends first, and then we need to, like, do the work together. And then there are the other type of people that are like, if we don't get the work done together, then we can't be friends. Like, if you're letting me down on the work front, then, like, we're not cool. And then some people are like, we need to be friends first to then, like, get the work done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which one do you think you are?

[B]

So I'm a little bit of, like. I don't want to say this, like, I'm so cool, but, like, I'm so, like, open and engaging to people and they have fun with me that I find myself in places where I have to then lean in and actually, like, I know that you like me and we're friendly and I, you know, but.

[A]

Like, also, where are the deliverables?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so. And that's something I wish I had more of a boundary on.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think I want to. I want to relate on, like, an interpersonal level, but I would say my approach is more like biz. Like, okay, let's like, get to get to the work.

[B]

You have a layer. I didn't. So, no, I'm keeping it up. I'm keeping it buck. I'm keeping it serious. You have this layer where guys. My naked beauty team. Let me tell you something about Burke. So we were cool, but then she and I. And I love this. It's really amazing for women to be like this in general. We were cool, and then I had more access to her as a human. And then I realized, oh, this is. We're really cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I thought we were really Cool. And then I felt more like family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

Same way.

[B]

But that's safety. It's like, you know, it's like a bridge. You.

[A]

Yeah, it comes back to what we were saying at the top. It's like people earn more and more access to you. Your authentic self isn't like level one. That's not like the ground floor. Like, hi, I'm here. Me and my authentic self. That's like. That comes with, like, time. And that certain people that get access to that.

[B]

I gotta do that work then. Cause I'm not. That's not working for me. And I'm the opposite. So I guess I give. I'm too open day one. I'm so open day one that I. That's a really good lesson for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, we're gonna talk about our higher selves.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

To round this episode out. Okay. Okay. Let's do lightning round.

[B]

I like it. I like it.

[A]

Okay. Your higher self wakes up and does.

[B]

I open all the drapes. That's my ceremonial thing. You'll hear all the drapes open as soon as my feet hit the ground. I need as much light to flood in the house as possible.

[A]

Beautiful. Your higher self does not tolerate any form of disrespect.

[B]

Any form. Like, it could be any form, but I have a very minimal patience for it. And I know the dark side of myself, and I just don't want to. I don't like him as much anymore. So I got to put him on the shelf.

[A]

Yes. Yes. Okay. Your higher self's beauty Wellness skincare. Non negotiable is needles.

[B]

And I would say sleep when I can. No, honestly, my. My non negotiables. I have a cabinet full of Chinese herbs and, like, for the basic. Will be chlorophyll on all the way up to, you know, dried ants. I eat and dry. You're eating dried, and they're in a capsule form. Polyrock.

[A]

That's news to me.

[B]

They have the highest bioavailability of zinc known to any living mechanism. So if you want to keep your face together for a long time, zinc is going to be the thing that's going to help the collagen production. So I have a cabinet I go to, and it's like death becomes her times 50.

[A]

Wait, have you been taking encapsulated dried ants for our entire friendship and you just haven't been telling me for about 12 years? Okay, thanks for bringing me on.

[B]

And she legit. She legit is amazing, too. It comes from, like, the base of mountains. But it's folic acid, most mineral dense thing you can consume. And so when you have shilajit and you take a CoQ10, it's almost like pac man. They go together and they increase each other's effective nature.

[A]

So amazing.

[B]

We always going to go to the beauty somehow.

[A]

Yes. Okay. And your higher self's life philosophy is?

[B]

Do I have a philosophy? I would say just Rocksteady. Aretha.

[A]

Love it. Love it. And when are you feeling most beautiful lately?

[B]

Oh man, I feel most beautiful when. And this is. I'm gonna sound like a sucker, but if you guys listen to me, I kind of thread this all the time through the conversation. When I get love from the people I love, when I like with my friends, when I know I'm loved. It makes me feel so good.

[A]

Yeah. Amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I could sit here and talk to you until the cows come home. The cows come home. It's always an honor to have you here.

[B]

Thank you, sis.

[A]

On Naked Beauty. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. And like, I know, I love that we can just like catch up like this. We need to do our like actual drinks.

[B]

I'm writing them down. Also, your husband's probably spinning. He can make pizzas.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

He's an amazing dj, guys.

[A]

He is amazing. And I love that every time we talk, even though I feel like I know so much about you, I learn new things, I hear stories I haven't heard before. You inspire me in new ways. So.

[B]

And I love the Naked Beauty planet because you guys still comment and yes.

[A]

Listen, we love you.

[B]

It's amazing. But okay, go to amazing. Love you.

[A]

Love you.

[C]

Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones. Wait, we're going on tour? We're delivering and setting up customers phones. It's not a tour.

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[A]

Oh right.

[C]

Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms apply. Big news. Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones at home or work. Wait, we're going on tour? Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up customers phones so it's easier to upgrade. Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road. No, not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work. Are you a groupie on this tour? We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour. Oh, you're definitely a groupie. Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery wherever you're at. Delivery available for select devices [e-mail].