← National Park After Dark
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- [00:03]
A
Graveyards. They are the epicenter of every spooky themed backdrop and are generally depicted something like this. Crumbling headstones jutting out of uneven ground like jagged teeth. Phantoms float the grounds as fog sneaks through the overgrown grass. They are places of loud silence, broken only by an owl hooting or a raven cawing from within the leafless branches of gnarled trees. In short, they are eerie. Knowing the bodies of hundreds, if not thousands of people lay just underneath your feet can be, well, unsettling. They are physical reminders of our own mortality and as I just described, often get an unfair edit. Portrayed as places of sadness, suffering and scariness. Places where ghosts dwell and the living avoid. But that representation is relatively new. Not so long ago, cemeteries were not sequestered away and avoided. They were integrated and embraced. Not limited to a place purely for mourning. Cemeteries acted as the first form of free, open religious expression in this country and gave birth to landscape architecture that inspired the layout of suburbs and places like Disneyland. They moved people creatively and inspired famous works of literature. They were the catalyst for the country's first conservation project. They served as America's first public art museums. And wouldn't you know it? Cemeteries were among America's first parks. Welcome to National Park After Dark.
- [02:00]
B
Fun fact. My first memories of learning how to ride a bike or in a cemetery.
- [02:04]
A
That's your first ever memory of riding?
- [02:06]
B
Of learning to ride a bike.
- [02:08]
A
Oh, I thought you're like, I come into this world in memory within the cemetery trying to ride a bike.
- [02:15]
B
Okay, be like five. What happened to you before that?
- [02:20]
A
Maybe you were a bike riding protege. I don't know. That's true. Well, that's fun.
- [02:25]
B
Yeah. And you were talking about how your intro just reminded me of that a little bit. Just because you were talking about how they're. When I was a kid, I didn't think of it as this morbid place. It was this paved place that had flowers and it was open and I could fall without hurting myself. Or like crashing into a tree.
- [02:41]
A
Yeah, like little to no car traffic and just kind of a. A good place. Good on your. Whoever it was, my dad made that decision. Yeah, Cassie's dad. Right on. Well, thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of National Park After Dark. My name is Danielle.
- [02:58]
B
I'm Cassie.
- [02:59]
A
And today I am going to be talking about my favorite. One of my favorite things, and that's cemeteries. I have been dying to do. Dying to do this episode for quite a long time. Just trying to. Similar to the Titanic, just trying to work it in. In any sort of way.
- [03:18]
B
How can I make this work for national.
- [03:20]
A
What's the angle here? And I found one and it's a good one. So no, it will not be my freebie. It actually does count.
- [03:28]
B
Well, I'm excited. I'm excited because you have been so excited about this episode for a while. So I feel like your excitement has caught on to me and now I want to learn. And also your videos you've been posting on Instagram.
- [03:43]
A
Oh, my God.
- [03:44]
B
In Cemeteries has also got me intrigued in this episode.
- [03:49]
A
I think it has most people intrigued. Not about cemeteries, but how I formulate those videos, because it's not. Well, if there's one thing about me that if it wasn't clear before, it is now. I am not a great content creator. It's difficult for me, but I want to, like, share information. So that's where I've come. I've started, like, this cemetery series thing for people who don't know what the heck we're talking about. It's very informal and all over the place. And, like, if you think you're gonna get a curated, lovely two minute video, you're wrong. It's just me. Like in literally just in cemeteries, I have a tiny little. It's like one of those little tripods that are, I don't know, maybe like 5 inches tall. Like, it's weird too. Yeah, I feel weird as hell. Like, I would never bring like a ring light or like any sort of big stand to a cemetery to do content. Like, no shade on people who actually do that.
- [04:54]
B
Because it takes a type of bravery to go out there in the public like that.
- [04:58]
A
Yeah. And to be fair, I'm usually by myself. Like, there's. I don't go to cemeteries that are active. They're all historic cemeteries that I like to go in and. But this time of year, people are crawling around cemeteries when they usually are not. So I just feel really awkward. Um, but I did get like a little mic thing, which sometimes works. So anyways, maybe this will breathe life into our TikTok again. Maybe I'll move it over to TikTok. Yeah, we'll see.
- [05:31]
B
I do need things to post on.
- [05:33]
A
TikTok, so I just need to figure out our password again after I did post a little bit back there in 2022.
- [05:41]
B
You did? Videos are all created by you.
- [05:44]
A
I think you did one in the Everglades.
- [05:46]
B
I did, and it went like, semi viral. Even though it's made, like. Even though it's really badly made. Especially looking back on it now.
- [05:56]
A
And it took you so long too. So long.
- [05:58]
B
It took me like hours. People who create content, good job.
- [06:03]
A
I mean, oh my God, kudos and flowers to you. And I have an interest in it, but it's.
- [06:09]
B
It makes me want to take a class.
- [06:11]
A
Honestly.
- [06:11]
B
I know someone teach me how to use like, how do normal people go on TikTok and make a fun video?
- [06:19]
A
I don't know. I really, I truly don't know. Especially because when I was like going to edit the video together and like chop it up and try and put it in there, I also, I. Maybe people do it on their computers, but I was doing on my phone and like trying to take my fingers and like clip the video and like touch everything, right? And then it wasn't precise, so it was just. I don't know, whatever. I don't know how people work, like in those conditions. It was just. I couldn't see anything. All the text was tiny.
- [06:50]
B
Yeah. You want me to edit your MySpace page to be the exact color pink? You want? I got you.
- [06:55]
A
I got you. Want me to code?
- [06:56]
B
You want me to code? I'm ready. Want me to make a video on TikTok?
- [07:01]
A
Get out of here.
- [07:02]
B
No chance.
- [07:04]
A
Well, okay, back to. Well, to start, I guess, this episode, yeah, it's about cemeteries. And we're going to kind of start by just to give you a little roadmap of the episode. Going to start by doing kind of like a brief overview of the history of American cemeteries. How they've changed and how our relationship with them has evolved throughout time. And then from there we'll dive into some other things like cemetery symbolism, and then touch upon some cool events and things that you can do in cemeteries today other than create content. So hopefully you'll learn something and give you a. An opportunity to do something fun this spooky season within your local cemetery. So before we get into it, because this is supposed to be like a fun, maybe not light hearted episode, but more so light than some of our other topics generally tend to be, I do want to acknowledge right off the bat a couple of things. And first and foremost, number one, this is truly going to be a 101 meaning very basic and incomplete discussions of various topics. There are literal volumes of books written about each one of these topics that we're going to talk about. So just know that the world and the library is your oyster. And if you want to know more like, please research on your own. This is more of like an intro, so just. I am very well aware that many of these Topics are like, we're just scratching the surface of. But also, and more importantly, as exciting and as fun as this episode hopefully is, I am also aware of how cemeteries can also be very poignant reminders of. Of some very dark chapters in United States history, as they are reflective mirrors of the art of our history regarding different cultural attitudes and beliefs of various times, including the forced removal of indigenous people, slavery, segregation, socioeconomic disparities, and more. And that's reflected in the types of cemeteries that kind of pop up on our radar a lot. Like, there's a lot of different topics of discussion when it comes to indigenous burials and African American burials and the lack of acknowledgment that they receive. So I totally understand that, and we'll kind of touch on that at the very end. But by and large, this is going to be mostly about, like, the history of American cemeteries through the lens of European views and attitudes.
- [09:33]
B
Gotcha.
- [09:34]
A
Okay, great. Okay, so to get started. It may be very hard to imagine now, but before 1831, America had no cemeteries as we know them today. For centuries, European and North American burial grounds for those of European descent were either on private family plots or attached or adjacent to houses of worship. So churches and other religious houses, religious views at the time were the reasoning for this. It was believed that to best prepare for the second coming to be in a good spot, you needed to literally be in a good spot. And in their view, that was in consecrated ground, which was the ground around churches. So it had to be sacred locations. Or, I mean, if you had a family plot of land and you were way outside of town and it just wasn't feasible for you to be buried around a church, like, that also was an option. But people really wanted to be all up in that church. And also, burials outside of church was kind of like a second best option, because people with a lot of power and money and influence were literally buried inside churches and interred in the. In the walls or under the floorboards and in crypts under the church. So that was like the best of the best VIP spots. And then outside of the church, if you couldn't afford that.
- [10:56]
B
That's super interesting, because when I was in England last summer, I think last summer, or maybe it was two summers ago now, but I was in England and to the coast and towards some national parks and stuff. And while I was there, we went to a tea room. But next to the tea room was a very, very, very old church, probably the oldest church I've ever stepped foot in. And all through the walls There were people buried and they had plaques outside and like almost to the ceiling was just burials of people. And then outside there were tons of gravestones in this little yard that was behind the chur. They were so old that they were crumbling. I mean, the dates on these were some of the oldest dates I've ever seen on a cemetery before.
- [11:45]
A
Yeah. Or like completely wiped away, like weathered and. Yeah, yeah. So that was the reason for it. I mean, it was religious. It's like for the second coming, which I know very little about, but I think it's when. Isn't it when Jesus is supposed to come back and get you?
- [11:58]
B
You're like, resurrected.
- [12:00]
A
Yeah. Or something.
- [12:01]
B
Good luck being resurrected as dust.
- [12:05]
A
You stupid idiots. Just kidding.
- [12:08]
B
How are you snacks?
- [12:10]
A
Everybody. Everybody can have their own beliefs. I. Who am I to say, like, who are.
- [12:15]
B
We don't know anything about the afterlife. None of us do until we're there.
- [12:19]
A
So. Yeah, that's honestly. Every single time. Isn't this so weird? Every time somebody dies, the first thing I think among sometimes like, oh, that's really sad. Like Jane Goodall.
- [12:30]
B
Yeah.
- [12:30]
A
Perfect example. She just passed away. And have you seen the Netflix thing that she did?
- [12:36]
B
I haven't watched it, but I've seen previews because she did an interview in March of this past year that was to come out after she died.
- [12:43]
A
Yeah. So they were asking her like a lot of not hard hitting questions, but just. She knew it was going to come out posthumously. And so anyway. And she's been quoted in. In different interviews, and I believe in that one too. You know, when somebody is like, what's your next big thing? And she's like, you know, I'm in my 90s. My next big adventure is dying and seeing what happens, you know, and that, that is literally, especially since Ian died, just kind of like my first thought is, well, now that person knows. Now that person knows, like what we're all dying to know. Whether it's nothing or whatever version of what comes after this that we all like to toss around and contemplate and stuff. Like, now they know.
- [13:29]
B
Yeah. And I saw Jane Goodall said something along the lines of. She's like, either nothing's gonna happen and that's okay, or I'm gonna be on the best of my. The longest, best adventure after this.
- [13:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We lost a good one. Pour one out for Jane. Yeah. This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. We may all be starting to wind down from summer as we enter fall in the cozy, slower paced season. But we gotta maintain energy. Something I know I need to stay on top of as the days get shorter and my body wants to lay on the couch earlier and earlier every day to avoid that post summer sluggishness, I reach for my Liquid IV and their new energy multiplier. Sugar free hydrating energy scientifically formulated to support physical energy, hydration, focus, mood and social stamina without those energy drink jitters, it's the perfect addition to my Pilates bag. I try and take two of those heated classes a week and let me tell you, I need that hydration and extra energy boost to get my butt off the couch and to class in the first place. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. Three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, natural caffeine and eight essential vitamins and nutrients. I know that when I drink one before my class, my favorite right now is the sugar free energy BlackBerry lemonade flavor. Wow. It's it like gives me motivation, you know. I know by drinking that I'm setting myself up for success. Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. And their live hydro science is an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients which turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. Don't just power through your day, ditch the glitch with zero sugar and zero crash from Liquid IV tear pour live more. Go to Liquid IV.com and get 20% off your first order with code NPAD at checkout. That's 20 off your first order with code npad@liquidiv.com going back to churches, they were generally located centrally because that was kind of like the biggest thing for Europeans at this point in time is just going to church. It was part a huge part of their lives. So the churches were usually smack dab in the middle of town, which worked out just fine, especially in smaller towns. But in cities and places experiencing rapid population growth and population death, it was a huge problem when it came to people wanting to be interred there. They were running out of space at first. Churches would retrench or essentially dig up old graves, remove the remains to be disposed of in charnel houses, which are buildings or vaults specifically designed for the storage of human remains and then rebury someone new where they had just dug up somebody else. They're like okay, this is, we can do this for a little bit. Like this is sustainable. They're gone.
- [16:27]
B
We did it. Like we'll just put em somewhere else now.
- [16:30]
A
Yep, like just a little refresh Browser refresh. Or they'd skip that part for whatever reason and just stack people on top of one another. It wasn't unheard of for different burial plots to contain five or six people stacked one on top of the other.
- [16:45]
B
That's my nightmare. Do not put me for all of eternity next to touching other people.
- [16:51]
A
Oh, you're not next to them, you're under them.
- [16:53]
B
Yeah. Or under blow them. If I, I. If I have to choose a spot.
- [16:57]
A
On top for a little bit, you're on top for a little bit. Until somebody else bury me in general. Okay, well, claustrophobic. I noted that a long time ago. Grave robbing was also rampant. Something I think we talked about in the Burke and Hare episode that I did in like 2022 or 2023. We went throwback. I know I was like racking my brain and I, I almost hit play on it, but then I couldn't stand to hear myself, so I didn't. But I'm pretty sure that we talked about grave robbing and all of that extensively, either in that one or. No. Yeah, I think it was that one. There was also the matter of the integrity of the burial plots themselves. They would sometimes collapse under stress or dissolve during heavy rains, sweeping bodies out into the streets. They were also seen as disease ridden, especially during times of epidemics like cholera and yellow fever, and were rapidly becoming health crises. There's a rumor that the true reason for churches burning incense during mass stems from attempts to mask the odor of rotting corpses coming from within and around the churches.
- [18:05]
B
That kind of makes sense.
- [18:07]
A
Again, I'm not. I feel like going back into the depths of my memory with going to Mass growing up, I thought that had to do with, like, the kings, the three kings or something that came. Like they brought frankincense, myrrh, and something else.
- [18:23]
B
You're asking the wrong girl.
- [18:24]
A
Okay, I'm, I mean, I can see it either way, but I, I'm just saying I think there is some, like, biblical ties to it as well for that. Yeah. But again, who am I to say? So all of those concerns, coupled with the growing popularity of cities and the increase in their population and need for space, were the catalyst for a new solution for the dead by the early 1800s. And city planners started drawing up ideas for new ways to handle the deceased. And that is when a group of horticulturists in Massachusetts had an idea. Well, more specifically, they had an idea to copy the French. In the late 1700s, France was having a major problem with the pileup of bodies in a very similar way, but much larger and more severe in scale compared to what was happening in 1800s America. Paris's burial grounds had become dangerously overcrowded, and the most infamous of locations being the Holy Innocent Cemetery near the city. Near the center of the city. This site had served as a resting place for over 2 million people over six centuries. And just as I described earlier, it was largely because people were dead set on wanting to be buried in sacred ground. Wealthier individuals, like I mentioned, often paid to be interred within the actual churches themselves, sometimes in crypts, other times beneath the floorboards, while the poorer were buried in mass in churchyards like Holy Innocents. And just as a little bit of a side note, I know that the trip that you did, you just described, you saw like the, the church and in England and saw exactly the description of like everybody being buried in the walls and stuff. But this summer, for the first time, I did the Freedom Trail in Boston for the first time in its entirety. And one of the stops is the Old North Church. And for some reason I've been in there before, like in passing, I guess, but I don't know if I've ever stopped and like really read all the information and clearly wasn't as invested as in what was going on there, aside from just like kind of filtering in and out. And part of the church is the crypt and you can get tickets to go in it, like underneath the church into the crypt. It's small, but it has over a thousand bodies. It's not that small, but it's small when you're physically in there. It's weird, it's, it's strange. But yeah, there's over a thousand bodies. It's part of the Boston National Historical park. And the tour down there is self guided, so it's not like anything official unless they have a special program or something. But it's really interesting. And also this is relatively new, but when. So when I was in there, I was like, okay, this is interesting and whatever, I'm reading all about it. And then there's this tiny little case in the very back corner that's a little plexiglass case and it has this fragment of a brick in it and a sign next to it. I'm like, what the heck is this? And it's like the cursed brick. I'm like, what?
- [21:21]
B
Oh.
- [21:22]
A
And so I read it and essentially it's like, you know how people steal petrified wood from petrified national forests and then get bad luck? And they're like, please take it back. This is ruining my life. Same thing happened, I guess. A visitor a handful of years ago took a brick from the crypto and stole it and then brought it back with this huge apology letter. And he's like, this is ruining my life. Like, it's cursed and I don't want it. I'm so sorry I took it. And now they have a display of it.
- [21:48]
B
So then none of the other visitors do the same thing.
- [21:51]
A
Yeah, but it's strange because it's not like there's just bricks laying around. This guy must have pried this thing out of the wall.
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B
What a weird pastime.
- [21:59]
A
But anyways, so, yeah, if you're interested in crips and live in and around Boston, there's one that you can go visit. So anyway, back to France. In Paris, the overcrowding was reaching a peak. Gravediggers were dumping bodies into large pits without proper coverage. Sometimes bodies were not buried at all, just kind of stacked above ground. And this neglect turned graveyards into putrid, overflowing landfills of decomposing flesh. And the use of charnel houses was common. Once the remains decomposed, bones were collected and stored there, making space for new bodies. But it just was not. They couldn't keep up. Yeah, the sheer number of corpses led to horrible conditions. Piles of decaying bodies would emit fat that oozed across the cemetery grounds, and the smell of rot overwhelmed the surrounding neighborhood. Locals even claimed that the gases from decomposing bodies extinguished candles and discolored their clothing. I knew I didn't like Paris. I'm so sorry, but, ew, that is gross. Paris was not one of my favorite places, and maybe I was picking up on a past life. The situation somehow got Even worse in 1780, when a season of relentless rain softened the ground so much that a nearby house's basement was flooded with bones from a collapsed cemetery wall that it was adjacent to. King Louis XVI realized that this was not a good look and banned all burials within Paris and ordered the complete removal of remains from burial grounds. Like holy innocents, the removal operation was conducted at night to avoid public disturbance, and crews transported remains in black draped wagons through the streets, accompanied by priests with incense and torches. The chosen destination for the remains was a labyrinth of old limestone quarry tunnels carved out beneath the city, which became what we now know as. As the Paris catacombs. So if you're wondering where all those bodies came from and all those bones and all those remains, Anyone who's ever seen pictures of the catacombs or physically been There and just this overwhelming sea of seemingly endless human remains. It's coming from all these overwhelmed burial grounds that were literally overflowing with dead people and they had nowhere to put them.
- [24:18]
B
It's crazy to think of it now because now the catacombs are a place that people visit purposely. And when you think about it, back then it would be, I imagine, places that people would avoid. Yeah, very much so. And now it's a tourist destination, so it's just interesting. But as soon as you said a burial in the middle of the city with 2 million bodies, I knew it was the catacombs.
- [24:41]
A
Yeah.
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B
Like it has to be. There's no other one.
- [24:44]
A
Well, I mean, that's the. The holy innocence was a different. That was a. A burial ground that was like a graveyard.
- [24:50]
B
Yeah.
- [24:50]
A
And then they're like, okay, we have all these, we need a solution. And that solution did work for a moment of time. But what about long term? Like, they needed a long term solution. They couldn't just keep doing this. People were scarred from the whole, you know, decomposing bodies oozing out into the street situation and were desperate for a better, longer lasting alternative. And also how difficult emotionally, like, these are your loved ones. Like we today, you know, in America, we think, okay, when my loved ones die, I. I have the option of a burial where I can go and be like, this is the location where my person is and I can go visit them. And this is their spot. Yeah. Not like they're just mixed up with millions of other people. I have no idea where they are. Their body is literally like, you know, it's just emotionally, it was probably just as difficult as, like the problems that it created outside of that.
- [25:53]
B
Definitely.
- [25:54]
A
That solution came after the French Revolution when new, more hygienic and thoughtfully designed burial grounds were ordered to be created outside of the city limits. The most famous of which is Pere Lachaise Cemetery. This cemetery was built on a 43 acre plot of land. And the man behind its vision was an architect of named Alexander Theodore Bronyart. And what he created was so unique. Up until that point, nothing like it existed in the entire world. First it was non denominational, meaning it accepted people from all faiths, which at the time was groundbreaking. Like you didn't do that before. It was designed to be a beautiful park like resting place for the dead, set up like a small village with winding cobblestone paths, street signs and lush landscaping. The grounds were wonderfully landscaped, filled with trees like maple, cherry and willows, and dotted with flowers and rose bushes. It was more of a peaceful garden than a traditional graveyard, a place that invited visitors to stroll and reflect somewhere to actually spend time. It opened in 1804 and accepted its first resident, a four year old little girl. And with that, the modern cemetery was born foreign. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack and hydration sponsor. IQ Bar is the better for you. Plant protein based snack made with brain boosting nutrients to refuel, nourish and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash. And they don't just stop at bars. They've got IQ Mix, a zero sugar drink mix that hydrates with electrolytes, improves mood and boosts clarity and their IQ. Joe, a jitter free instant coffee packed with 200 milligrams of natural caffeine. Caffeine. There are plenty of flavor combinations to choose from across all IQ Bar products too. From mint chocolate chip protein bars to blueberry pomegranate hydration mixes to toasted hazelnut coffee and of course limited edition and seasonal flavors. With over 20,000 5 star reviews and counting, more people than ever are fueling their busy lifestyles with IQ Bars, Brain and Body Boosting bars, Hydration mixes and mushroom coffees. Their Ultimate Sampler pack include includes all three. I've tried almost all of their flavors at this point and at the moment I'll give you an insight into my perfect ultimate IQ trifecta. And that's the Chocolate Sea Salt bar, the Iced tea Lemonade hydration mix and the Toasted Hazelnut Instant coffee. Especially when I'm short on time in the mornings but want to start them off right. Right now IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products, including the sample sampler pack plus free shipping. To get your 20 off. Text park to 64,000 text park to 64,000. That's P A R K to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See Terms for details. You would imagine that this would be something like a solution that people would be super thrilled about. Like hey, we just went through a nightmare with all that stuff and graveyards in that setup that wasn't working. But in actuality, the cemetery struggled. People were wary of this new scenic and pleasant alternative to the traditional graveyard. I mean it was change, right? You've been doing something the same way for centuries and especially if you have very strong religious beliefs and ties to a certain way of doing things. It's, it's going to take some time to adjust. But plus it was also outside of the city. Remember it was ordered to be Built far and away to hopefully avoid problems like they were facing before, which clearly solved a number of big issues. But it presented another problem in regards to accessing it. You know, people couldn't just hop in their car and drive over in 10 minutes. Like they had to walk or take carriages or, you know.
- [29:47]
B
Yeah. They couldn't visit their loved ones whenever they wanted.
- [29:50]
A
Yeah. And in the first year, only 14 people were buried there, which wasn't the best for business. So they decided to make people interested in their business. They decided to buy and move three famous people, playwrights and a medieval couple known for their love letters that were very popular at the time, to their cemetery. And they publicized the crap out of it. They're like, hey, look what we. Look who's here.
- [30:15]
B
Don't you want to be buried next to them?
- [30:18]
A
Yeah.
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B
That's such an interesting marketing move.
- [30:20]
A
But it worked so well. It worked really, really well.
- [30:24]
B
Really funny, actually.
- [30:26]
A
Today, over a million people are interred in this cemetery, including famous rock stars, actresses, poets, and more. The cemetery, nicknamed the City of Immortals, is filled with works of art in the form of life size sculptures and statues that are so beautiful, they draw thousands of people every year. Every once in a while, images of certain graves will go viral online coming from. From inside this cemetery. So even if you don't know the name or the story I'm describing, you probably recognize some of the famous graves or sculptures within it, notably Oscar Wilde's tomb, which has been sealed to visitors as thousands of women would kiss it with red lipstick. So it was getting completely covered with lipstick stains from visitors. Or the grave of Victor Noir, born Ivan Salman, a journalist killed by Prince Bonaparte. Originally bronze. Like many of the sculptures in the cemetery, it's oxidized over time, so it's largely green, kind of like the Statue of Liberty. However, the artist who did the sculpture did Victor some favors because he sculpted him with a. He was packing. Okay, there's a little bulge down there that is noticeable. And legend has it, over the years, I don't know where it originated, but legend has come to claim that if you rub this bulge, it'll provide different fertility benefits. And it's good for fertility.
- [32:01]
B
I've seen this on, on social media and I've seen that it's been rubbed so much that the coloring has actually changed.
- [32:10]
A
Oh, it shines like a new penny down there. Yeah. So it's those types of monuments and stuff, sculptures that really make this cemetery so beautiful. And of course, it has historical significance, but it's just, it's stunning. Hearing of the early success of this cemetery and desperately needing reform in the ways in which burials were being conducted in America, Harvard professor Jacob Bigelow proposed doing the same thing that Paris did with the City of Immortals, but with one big exception. He envisioned it wilder and more spacious. He envisioned a public park because, surprise, surprise, there weren't public parks as we know them today either. And I do need to mention, like, a little asterisk here, because there were public parks, most notably at this time, Boston Commons, which is the oldest park in America. It was founded in 1634, so it kind of takes the crown for the oldest park here in this country. But it started as a cow pasture and military training ground before it became a central spot for things like protests and public executions. So its creation wasn't intended for recreation and pleasant things. It was more practical uses and practical uses like public education, like beheadings and hangings and, you know, grazing your cows and whatnot. And it did eventually gain speed as a spot for recreation, nearly 200 years after its creation. So it wasn't initially designed with recreational intention, but Mount Auburn Cemetery in Cambridge, Massachusetts, was. Bigelow spent years trying to shop around his idea to people with power and money that could make it happen. But just as the people in France balked at the idea of this new concept called a cemetery, so too did Bostonians. He had found the perfect location for his idea. In the year 1830, roughly 71 acres of forest nestled along the Charles river in Cambridge. Named Stones woods, it was used mostly by Harvard students as a place to meander and stroll. But it was undeveloped. It was just somewhere, you know, people happened to pass through or spend time. He purchased the plot, but didn't have enough to develop it into his vision. Lacking public support, he turned to another form of support, the Massachusetts Horticulture Society, and offered them a deal if they agreed to lend their name and support publicly and to use their bougie contacts and influential friends to gather support for potential investors. Bigelow would set aside 30 acres of the 71 acres of land for them to use as their headquarters and experimental gardens. It worked. They agreed, and the marketing, once again was strategic. The project was advertised as the Horticultural Society's garden and cemetery. Like, they kind of were like, big font, big font garden. And then it's like asterisk and cemetery, very small. It was successful, and within a year, the garden cemetery was open, the first landscaped rural garden cemetery in the United States, complete with a lavish opening night ceremony in the cemetery's amphitheater Plans were immediately drawn up for the construction of the grounds through naturalistic landscape elements which included dredging ponds and creeks, constructing a large viewing tower, installing fountains and carving winding paths and roads throughout the property, leaving wooded areas and reflective ponds and highlighting the panoramic views from the central hills summit that overlooked the city. Then there were the plants. As news of this new crazy idea called a garden cemetery spread, horticulturists from around the world sent gifts of seeds. Everything from magnolia trees from Ohio and vegetable seeds from the London horticulture society. By the end of the 1830s, Mount Auburn had several hundred trees planted and was just getting started. It began incorporating conservation ideas over time. By 1870, with a growing interest in Mount Auburn as a destination for bird watching, a committee on birds for the cemetery was established, resulting in planting of trees and fruit bearing shrubs that would attract the birds. Sculptures were installed, becoming the first outdoor sculpture gallery in the country. And all of the work that was done with the intentional landscaping resulted in the first true landscape landscape architecture project in America. So there's a lot of firsts going on here with a cemetery like in, you know, we have all these things that we kind of take for granted now and I mean, you don't even bat an eye at them. It's so normal. But this was a. The one of the first projects that really paved the way.
- [36:51]
B
Yeah, when you're talking about it, I'm like, yeah, all this makes sense, but it doesn't. You forget that at one point this was an idea and not a normal.
- [37:00]
A
Right. This show is sponsored by better help. It is so important to recognize people for the good that they do in this world. So this October 10th on World Mental Health day, we are saying thank you therapists. Culturally, we have come a long way in understanding that talking to a licensed professional therapist can make a world of difference in our lives. Whether it's for a safe, safe space to cry, someone to celebrate wins with us, or assistance with navigating different mental health struggles. I know that having a therapist to help me during a significant period of struggle in my life helped guide and support me in a way that I would have felt lost without better helps. Therapists have helped over 5 million people do just that. With over 30, 000 fully licensed in the u. S. Therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest, largest online therapy platform. Their commitment to finding the right therapist match is one of their keys to that success. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 10 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. But if for whatever reason you aren't happy with your match, you can easily switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored wrecks. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who have helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10 off their first month@betterhelp.com NPAD that's Better Help H lp.com NPAD Word spread fast, and as plans moved off blueprints and started taking shape in real life, people took notice and wanted in. You know, they're like, oh, okay, this is actually really nice. We didn't believe you at first. We were scared. But this actually looks lovely. It didn't just gain the attention of Boston locals who loved the idea of spending eternity there, it became a tourist sensation. People from the likes of Emily Dickinson, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Henry David Thoreau and Nathaniel Hawthorne all visited for recreation, inspiration and to pay their respects. But more importantly than celebrity visitors, it drew in the average person and a lot of them. The beautiful, tranquil setting of Mount Auburn was a major draw for city dwellers seeking to experience nature. People visited not only to mourn, but for recreation, education and sightseeing. They had celebrations and picnics. This cultural phenomenon resulted in the rural cemetery movement in America, and soon after its opening places across the nation began copying its model from New York to San Francisco. As Greg Melville states in his book Over My Dead Body, Unearthing the Hidden History of America's Cemeteries, says of Mount Auburn, it laid the first building block for the modern environmental movement untethered graveyards from houses of worship and turned them into freestanding entities which transformed America's burial practices and customs. Nearly every modern cemetery in the country shares DNA of Mount Auburn. Seven years after the opening of Mount Auburn, Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn opened its giant brownstone Gothic Revival gates. And while it mimicked the rural park like layout of Mount Auburn like of course they're using that cemetery as a blueprint to be repeated, it leaned into funerary art and leaned in hard. New York's growing community of artists from poets, painters, writers and architects descended here for inspiration. But in particular the sculptors who were commissioned by the ultra wealthy New Yorkers with a desire to permanently display their opulence really flourished Here. And while I have some mixed feelings about that, like what they were commissioned to create for people is so extra and so bougie and so over the top. Like for someone who wants a simple green burial and not a lot of razzle dazzle, this is the complete opposite of that. They kind of just really wanted to leave their mark of who they were and the power and money that they had. So while I don't know how I feel about that for myself, it sure as hell makes for an absolutely stunning cemetery. And I'm so happy a bunch of people decided to do it at one point because I get to see it.
- [41:34]
B
It'S like not friendly, but it's beautiful, right?
- [41:38]
A
And people of the time too took notice of the grand mausoleums, the life sized or larger bronze and marble statues, and other artistic funerary pieces. It gained so much popularity, in fact, it became the country's most visited urban tourist attraction nationwide.
- [41:55]
B
Interesting. A cemetery.
- [41:57]
A
Yeah. So what the heck were people doing there? Of course, many of them were simply taking in the sights, strolling the grounds, observing the scenery and monuments and the, you know, absorbing the, the peace and tranquility that cemeteries generally offer. But they were also picnicking. An article from the Bellows Falls Times From July of 1894 reads, quote, holding a picnic in a cemetery may seem a rather gruesome festivity, but it worked happily in the town of Temple the other day. All hands on deck took hold and beautified the grounds. And the cemetery picnic was so successful that it will be repeated next year. All over America, people started flocking to cemeteries for the exact things you would say see today in public parks they would lay out blankets with baskets full of sandwiches and drinks right alongside the headstones. At times having full fledged multi course holiday meals with the dead. This was in no way a revolutionary idea. People of different cultures throughout time have long standing traditions of eating meals with the deceased. But for America, this was very new and weirded out a lot of people, especially older generations. While it may seem strange to us now, we have to consider the time and a couple of different factors. First, this was a time before public parks. Like I said, cemeteries were the parks. There is no established areas for people to go and do activities like this in a public rural setting.
- [43:23]
B
Yeah, you're not in the middle of New York City and you can go to the park and play Frisbee and have a picnic and read a book under a tree. If you want to find that solace, it's in a cemetery.
- [43:34]
A
Yep. And secondly, Americans had a Much closer relationship and a higher level of comfortability with death. This is a time where the child and infant mortality rate was high and women frequently died in childbirth. Men died in wars and disease epidemics took people by the millions. You know, it was when somebody dies young today, it's a tragedy. And of course it happens, but not nearly to the degree that it happened before. So people had a more intimate and close relationship with death and were just kind of like it was more of a norm and something that wasn't. I mean, our attitude here in America at this point in time with death is very removed. And it was not that way at this time. Picnicking gained so much popularity in cemeteries. It started kind of looking like the aftermath of burning man. A June 1900 article. I know, not good. A June 1900 article from the conservative stated, quote, a remarkable fad sprang up in Denver of going to cemeteries for picnics. It has become such a nuisance to have thousands strewn the grounds with sardine cans, beer bottles and lunch boxes that the police interference was almost contemplated. So people are just leaving garbage and litter and trash. You know, like with thousands of people doing that. Yeah. Leaving very quickly. Yeah, the pop. And I don't mean to pick on burning Man. I just feel like festivals have that type of reputation. I have no interest in ever finding out for myself. Just as with golf, if you ever find me at burning man something Brock bottom. It's happened. The popularity of picnicking in cemeteries eventually faded by the 1920s and has even been banned in certain cemeteries even to this day. But as with many urban parks we see today, and certainly within national parks, it isn't always about what cemeteries can do for people, living or dead, but what they can do for conservation. In the early 1930s, a young Ralph Waldo Emerson started spending a lot of time in the woods near his grandfather's home in Concord, Massachusetts. Gaining inspiration from the natural world in that slice of forest in New England. He went on to publish Nature, a book length essay that became essentially the gospel for a literary and philosophical movement called transcendentalism. A movement which set the stage for the American environmental movement. And you can read all about that movement. But at its core, it was essentially this movement that really took hold in the 19th century and emphasized individual intuition and self reliance and like kind of this inherent goodness of humanity and nature and the belief that spiritual truth transcends material reality. And it kind of grows in popularity, especially here in New England. Like that's obviously where it took root here as kind of a reaction against organized religion. And it just, it kind of encouraged people to just find truth and through personal experience, with a deep connection to the natural world versus finding it through organized religion. Concord became the focal point of this movement and attracted people like Henry David Thoreau, Louisa May Alcott, Nathaniel Hawthorne and Margaret Fuller to the area to stroll the woods and contemplate transcendentalism.
- [46:59]
B
Right, that.
- [47:00]
A
That thing.
- [47:01]
B
Of course.
- [47:02]
A
As one does, as we all do. Many of their works were inspired by this piece of property and stuck with them both professionally and personally for years and years. However, by 1854, 90% of Concord had been stripped of its woodlands. Writing in his journal, Thoreau remarked about this writing quote, each town should have a park, or rather a primitive forest of 500 acres or a thousand acres where a stick should never be cut for fuel. A common possession forever for instruction and recreation. And the best shot at protecting a space like that, a rural cemetery that would protect it forever. And thus, with Emerson of the cemetery's commission, construction of Sleepy Hollow cemetery began in 1855. Sleepy Hollow as in the legend the.
- [47:56]
B
Legendless Horseman of Sleepy Hollow?
- [47:58]
A
Yep.
- [47:59]
B
Wow. How fitting for. For this spooky season.
- [48:03]
A
Guess what? I'm not going to talk about that legend one bit.
- [48:06]
B
Really?
- [48:08]
A
Really. Sorry, maybe, but it's Sleepy Hollow. Maybe some other time. I was too focused on the cemetery portion. This time of year hits different. Something about the bite in the air and the crisp of the leaves under your feet makes you crave warm and satisfying meals. And guess who can help you satisfy those cravings? That's right, HelloFresh. You can expect comforting chef design recipes and fresh seasonal ingredients delivered right to your door. And I've been using HelloFresh for years now and I love them dearly. But they really did level up. Their menu has literally doubled in size. Meaning we have over a hundred options every week. And they haven't just given us more options, they've boosted their menu in the health department. This menu is filled with high protein and veggie packed recipes. Recipes we've all learned since we were little to eat our veggies. And now HelloFresh is helping you eat greener with new veggie packed recipes that have two or more veggies. I've been ordering one seafood recipe per week. Now that they have three times more seafood on the menu at no extra cost, I feel like scallops are kind of my new favorite thing. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com npad10fm now to get get 10 free meals and a free item for life, one per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com npad10fm to get 10 free meals and a free item for life. As many trees as possible were saved during construction of the cemetery and during its open source and during its opening cemetery. Emerson spoke of how he envisioned, as the years passed by the beauty of the cemetery growing and maturing, that, quote, these acorns falling at our feet would someday become oaks overshadowing our children in a remote century. Sleepy Hollow's creation, the way it began as this idea to intentionally protect and cultivate nature in a segment of forest again was unprecedented. And as author Greg Melville points out, Sleepy Hollow is often omitted from the conversation regarding the first to protect a natural space in this country forgotten, as often happens to burial grounds. Instead, the focus is placed squarely on the space designated by Congress in 1872, and that is Yellowstone National Park. Many of the people who advocated for the protection of Sleepy Hollow are buried there, including Louisa May Alcott, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Thoreau and Emerson, eternally resting under the trees they wanted to save. So Sleepy Hollow began as a conservation project in wanting to protect the forest. And it's like, how do we do that? I guess you bury dead people here because then it's protected. It was like almost like a loophole in a way. You know, it's smart.
- [51:07]
B
It's a smart loophole. It's like, well, you can't destroy land that is a important burial ground.
- [51:12]
A
Right? It's very clever. With all of that hype and love and admiration for cemeteries and how beautiful and meaningful they are, they are dying in visitation and in use. There are a few reasons for that, but overwhelmingly we are choosing other alternatives when it comes to deciding what to do with our mortal remains. Aquamation, green burials, human composting, body donation, and even becoming part of a memorial coral reef have all risen in population popularity as we have woken up to how probably to how problematic the death industrial complex has become. People argue it has become predatory and powerful. And not to mention it is absolutely horrendous for the environment. Aside from the glaring problem of running out of space for sprawling cemeteries, those once far removed rural garden cemeteries are now encapsulated by cities who have grown to surround them. But traditional burials are bad, bad news bears for the environment. Because, you know, at first it's like, great, let's just. Over there, away from all the people, there's so much space and room. And again, it's like that was a solution to a problem at one point, but now we're running into that problem again. I mean, like.
- [52:26]
B
Well, when you kind of think about it too, is like in Sleepy Hollow's case, you are preserving some of the trees that were otherwise going to be bulldozed over and. And built upon. But when you look at cemeteries as a whole now, and today, a lot of them have paved roads in them. They have to cut down trees because you have to bury bodies and have gravestones. So you are. Even though you're preserving a piece of land, a lot of it is grass and buried bodies.
- [52:54]
A
Well, the way it's landscaped and things are, yeah, different.
- [52:57]
B
It's not as eco conscious as you.
- [53:00]
A
Might think, but also, you know, like. Like Mount Auburn in their case, which surprise we will be going to tomorrow before our event.
- [53:11]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [53:14]
A
Because it's close to where we're going tomorrow. So I would like to bring you because I have been before and it's amazing and beautiful and I think after especially hearing this, like 24 hours later, seeing it in person would be really cool. But with their case, you know, originally it's like, great. It's away from the city, it overlooks Boston, but it's still separ. Separate now. Oh, my God, it's in the middle, smack dab in the middle. Cambridge has surrounded, you know, grown up around it.
- [53:43]
B
It's huge. It's basically Boston.
- [53:45]
A
Right? So it's like that idea that was once an answer to a big problem as far as, you know, keeping it away from. We're running out of away is what I'm saying. You know, so that's a problem. But also, traditional burials are just. Just terrible for the environment. And that's another huge conversation and one that could take up an entire episode. But I just want to give some fast facts about it, just to give you a glimpse into how. How terrible it is for the environment. According to the Green Burial Council, every single year, Americans alone deposit into the ground through burials, 4.3 million gallons of toxic embalming fluid, including formaldehyde, along with 1.6 million tons of concrete feet, 81,000 tons of metal, and 20 million board feet of wood. Heavy metals from medical devices left in corpses and powerful pharmaceutical drugs like those used in chemotherapy also seep into the ground. And along with the embalming fluids, eventually seep their way into underground waterways. Cremation is also a hugely popular alternative to traditional burials that have, you know, skyrocketed in popularity over the last few decades. And for A time was thought to be a much better alternative to traditional burials for environmental reasons. But studies over the last few decades show as the process stands today, I mean, there are improvements trying to be made with the technology and how things are done with cremation. But as it stands right now, it isn't better by much due to the release of harmful gases and the huge amount of energy that it needs to power even a single cremation. So that's kind of a side note, but I did want to mention that. So as all these facts and figures start to emerge, the public is starting to favor more environmentally friendly options as we begin to recognize just how huge of an environmental impact Traditional burials have on our world. Which is great. I mean, this is great for nature to improve your. You know, what you can do to reduce your carbon footprint even after you're dead is awesome. Totally a big advocate for that. But in the context of cemeteries, it's bad news because with our interred residents becoming further and further removed from the living and other options for recreational activities that people once saw. Lot to do within cemeteries, like, you know, there's actually. You can go to a public park now. Yeah. To play flag football. You don't. Yeah. You don't have to go to a cemetery. There's less visitation. All. Especially here in New England with the older cemeteries. I mean, people aren't visiting their great, great, great grandfather. Like the graves from 1772, you know, the cemeteries and burial grounds. A lot of them are burial grounds that once had a church or some form of house of worship that either has been burned or demolished or whatever. There's usually a plaque that'll say, like this here once stood whatever.
- [56:38]
B
I think we also have a lot more of a connection to our loved ones who have passed on remaining where nowadays than we did when cemeteries first became an idea. Because when we first. I mean, going back for a long time. But cemeteries were where your loved one was. And that was kind of the only place that you could be close to them. But now we have. Have pictures, we have videos of them. We have all of these things where we can feel close to them in our homes. Where I feel like has also probably really contributed to people not going to cemeteries as much.
- [57:11]
A
Exactly. And, you know, a lot of people just aren't being buried. They, you know, like, my. You know, my. The people who I've lost that are very close to me do not have physical graves. So there's no need for me to personally visit a cemetery for personal reasons in that way. So with all of those factors, you know, there's less visitation, which means less money. And with less money coming in, all that funding going, you know, that isn't there. It means less budget for upkeep. And there's more problems associated with maintaining the grounds and keeping the gates open to these cemeteries. So what can be done, you know, like, what is the solution there? And I'll give you a solution. A little bit of a recommendation. And this was my favorite part of the episode. Do research, because this is where I get to event recommendations and ways that you can go into cemeteries and have your own experience other than just going to stroll around and poke around on your own. Understandably, special events ramp up in earnest this time of year with spooky season. I mean, it's like their super bowl season right now in October. And I'll highlight a few of those special events. But there are year round events in cemeteries that are happening all of the time that are just as fun and just as intriguing. And I really encourage everyone who is even slightly interested in this topic or just their local history to look into events that are going on in their nearby cemeteries or historical societies. Because I guarantee that you will find something nearby that you will want to participate in or at least investigate and see what it's all about. Big name cemeteries like the ones we talked about today. Mount Auburn, Greenwood and Sleepy Hollow. And also the Hollywood Forever Cemetery, which I didn't get into, but is very famous. And we went. That was my birthday wish a few years ago.
- [59:06]
B
We went with Ian and Al and we walked around the Hollywood cemetery and it was an interesting experience because it. I was thinking about it a lot in this episode where you were talking about how people used to go for fun and to recreate in the Hollywood cemetery kind of still embodies that atmosphere because people go, they pay a ticket price. It's like, it's very nice there. It's beautiful. You know, everyone has these incredible headstones that are there. And of course a lot of that comes down to the people who are buried there are very rich and very famous. So that's in part of why it's so beautiful. But it's a cemetery, but it doesn't have like this ominous like sad feeling. It's very bright and welcoming and it was an interesting place to be.
- [59:54]
A
Yeah, and it's. That's like a perfect example of having famous people interred there and drawing visitors, you know, because we went, I mean, I wanted to go because we were there already for another event. It lined up with my birthday and it just. It's kind of like this iconic location. And we got the map, you know, and we, like, have it out. And we're like, okay, where's Garland? And. Yeah. Whereas I have a picture of Ian in front of. What's his name? Ramon something. He's like a famous rock star.
- [60:22]
B
I remember that.
- [60:23]
A
God, people are.
- [60:26]
B
I don't remember, but I remember him wanting a photo in front of.
- [60:30]
A
Yeah, I have a picture of him there. And then I also. I was going through. Because I wanted to see. I'm like, oh, what. What pictures do I have of that? When I was researching this episode, I have a picture of you in front of Toto little memorial marker. And I have a video. I was like, why did I save this video? It's like three seconds long. It's not even really of anything. Like, what the heck is this? It looks kind of like I had the video going in my hand and I forgot to turn it off. And I'm watching it and at first I almost deleted it because at first it's just when we were inside the. It was like the mausoleum. One of the mausoleums, or I don't know what it's called. It was a huge indoor building and it was echoing like crazy. And I'm like, what the heck is this? And I kept it because no one's in it. It's just filming the memorial markers or grave markers, and it's Ian laughing and it's just echoing, like throughout the whole thing. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah, so that's a perfect example of somewhere that does really leans into events and drawing people there. And like you said, I mean, a lot of people who are interned there are very wealthy, so they have money coming in and things like that. But they aren't the only ones who have events. So I wanted to just. From the three that we talked about, they're literally bullet point lists of. Just because we'd be here forever. If I talked about everything but Mount Auburn, I mentioned it super briefly. But this is a hot spot birding destination. So for all you birders out there, this is one of this cemetery's biggest attractions. They host thousands of visitors every single year for birding events. And they have walking tours and birding ID tours. And it's a part of.
- [62:24]
B
So interesting.
- [62:25]
A
It's along like a migration route. Like a very. A special migration route. So. And especially with all the specifically landscaped trees and vegetation to attract birds. It's like people go there specifically for this and they have events like seasonally for it. It's really interesting. They have everything from forest bathing opportunities, drawing workshops, historic walks, meditation retreats. Like, they have events all of the time. So this is kind of. It goes without saying that most of these cemeteries have really. They have special events that have to do with historic walking tours of the history of the cemetery. This is like, above and beyond those offerings.
- [63:06]
B
Gotcha.
- [63:06]
A
Greenwood in New York has candlelit walks. They have parades. They have death education series, school programs, school field trips, environmental and historical research, fellowship opportunities. They have artists in residence programs because, like I said, they really gained a lot of notoriety for their art, especially when they started. They have after dark light shows and so much more. And then Sleepy Hollow, of course, has lantern tours. They have murder mystery events, Jack o' Lantern painting nights, especially this time of year. They have live storytellings of classic tales like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, the legend of Sleepy Hollow, Dracula and Headless Horseman. I gotta go. Since I don't know anything about it, apparently, and neither will you from this episode. Cemeteries also routinely host outdoor movie nights. That's a huge thing. This year they're starting to wrap up because the weather, especially in New England, is getting chillier. But look up cinema and the cemetery events near you, and you can literally. It's like outdoor. You just bring your blanket and a chair and set up in the cemetery. And they have a big outdoor projector, and you can watch a movie.
- [64:22]
B
Cute.
- [64:23]
A
There's concerts, yoga classes, workshops, and of course, the historic walking tours that go over everything from the lives of those who are interred there, local legends, their architecture, horticulture, birding, and so much more. And to finish this up, if you don't live near any cemetery that hosts events like this, or if they happen to be all sold out, especially this time of year, you know, they're super popular. I looked into a couple at Mount Auburn, and they were like, yeah, no, you're not getting in. I do have a solution for you. And I participated in this last year, and it was so much fun, especially if you're an introvert and, like, don't want to be social, but want to still do something fun. Like, it's fun event. This is the best of both worlds.
- [65:09]
B
You get the best of the best.
- [65:13]
A
So I follow a page on Instagram and it's called Talk Death Daily. And each year they host a cemetery scavenger hunt. And this is an event that you can do 100 by yourself in whatever cemetery that you choose or at one of their participating cemeteries that are involved in the event. So I'm going to break down how this works because I was so, I was like, oh my God, I hope this comes out before the cemetery scavenger hunt. And it does. So if you're listening to this in real time, this year you have like roughly a week to prepare yourself. So this year it's running on Sunday, October 26th. So on that day, this is, this is what you're going to want to do. You're going to want to pick a cemetery and arrive there at least 10 minutes before the start time, which will be 2:30pm Eastern. Clues are dropped all at once, like across a bunch their Instagram, their Facebook and on their website. Like they, they drop a bunch of clues. And you have 45 minutes to explore the grounds in search of headstones or monuments or different features that match the given clues. And once you find the clue or the answer to the clue, you take a selfie with it and you're provided with this form that as you find the clues, you upload your picture to the corresponding clue to show that you found it. And you have to just submit it by the end of the allotted time, which is like 45 minutes. And they pick winners and announce the winners about an hour after the 45 minute window closes. And they give out prizes to the person who finds, finds 13 clues first, the highest number of clues found over the 45 minutes. And different accolades for like most unique photography. Like sometimes people like they, they say, okay, you need to be able to identify yourself within each picture so we know you're not just like googling a picture and uploading it. Once you see, like, we have to see that this is you. And in the past some people have like dressed up or like used a little like fun, like like a bigfoot little figurine or something to hold or just something unique and cute. So most creative photography, they'll give out awards for that too. And they advise you to do your research beforehand into your cemetery of choice to make sure you're doing everything by the book, make sure that you're not going to break any rules or go against any guidelines of that particular cemetery just to make sure you're being respectful. And of course that means being mindful of any other people that may be in there and staying far away from any active burial or ceremonies or anything like that. And they encourage you to find cemeteries that are the most historic and larger diverse that you can because they'll give you a better chance at locating, finding.
- [67:57]
B
Like all of these things.
- [67:58]
A
Yep. And if you are close to one of their partners, they're doing collaborations with some really incredible cemeteries, collectives and individuals and different death adjacent groups to give you an opportunity to connect with like minded people. And they really encourage you to go out and go to one of those events if close to them. And I wrote down three. The Forest Lawn Cemetery in Buffalo, New York, Lone Fur Cemetery in Portland, Oregon, and Riverside Cemetery in Waterbury, Connecticut are participating this year as like official partners. And the clues are kind of just to give you like a snapshot, like, what the heck are you looking for? Yeah, last year. I'm trying to think. So last year would be like, find like a weeping willow. Like, because there's. If you follow my cemetery Symbolism series, you know that there are different symbols and things like that on headstones that were popular at different points in time in history. So they'll be like, find a headstone with a weeping willow or find a headstone where the person's initials are all H. So like Horace Herbert Harrison, HHH or.
- [69:03]
B
So there's things that you could find in most cemeteries, theoretically. So you can do it from wherever you are.
- [69:10]
A
Yes.
- [69:11]
B
That's cool. That's a fun idea.
- [69:13]
A
Or like find a grave that somebody died in 1879 or whatever. Like, it's just. They try and make it as accessible to the most amount of people who are going into their local cemeteries versus, like particular ones that can be only found in certain locations.
- [69:30]
B
You're not gonna find. Find Judy Garland.
- [69:33]
A
Right. It's like, find Judy Garland. Good luck.
- [69:36]
B
One cemetery.
- [69:37]
A
Yeah.
- [69:38]
B
That's such a fun way to do Spooky season.
- [69:42]
A
Yeah. And to get people out and involved and interested in eyes and on locations that you may just like. I mean, the amount of cemeteries that we drive by as the average person is crazy. I mean, they're everywhere, but they're just places that we don't really venture to often. And they're just, they're just such. There's opportunity there to just have like a really unique experience, especially. Especially for people who are interested in like, which is the vast majority of our listeners. So there's that and the last thing about that event in particular this year they're raising funds for the Black Cemetery Network, which is a national platform for highlighting activities to identify, interpret, preserve, and record African American burial grounds and their histories, with an emphasis on identifying, honoring, preserving, and archiving black cemeteries that have been marginalized, underfunded, unmarked, marked or abandoned.
- [70:34]
B
So love an event with a good cause.
- [70:37]
A
Yep. Many cemeteries and burial grounds are treasures cloaked in scary outfits. And while some of them have been left to the elements to be reclaimed by nature. Some are national landmarks. There are currently 14 national cemeteries actively managed by the National Park Service, including Gettysburg, Little Bighorn and Poplar grove. However, roughly 1700 of them are designated as National Historic landmarks. Marks or are listed on the National Register of Historic Places, including Mount Auburn, Sleepy Hollow, and Greenwood.
- [71:12]
B
There's your tie in for a national park episode.
- [71:16]
A
There it is.
- [71:17]
B
There's the cherry on top of the.
- [71:21]
A
There is so much beauty to behold in the lands of the dead. Burial grounds, to me, are places where the living can give final acts of devotion to the deceased deceased. Can they be a little unsettling? Yeah. But I think we have pop culture to largely thank for that, because if you truly slow down and take the time to read the engravings in stone, they are miniature love letters, either in epitaphs or symbols. Some are small, faded, and worn by weather and time, while others loom largely in the form of giant sculptures, impossible to miss. But regardless, they are testimonies that we have always loved, loved, lost, grieved, hoped for something better, wanted to be remembered, and wished to be honored. While there can certainly be uniqueness in headstones and details etched into them, there is an epitaph that gained popularity in the 18th century and serves as a gentle reminder to all of us today. Remember, friends, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I, as I am now, so you must be. Prepare for death, death and follow me. And with that little momento mor, I will leave you for this episode. I hope you enjoyed learning a little bit about the history of cemeteries and how rad they can be and how special they are. And I hope I inspired you to go check out your local cemetery and tag me in your pictures. I would love to see.
- [72:43]
B
Well, for a cemetery episode that sounded like it would be dark and scary was not. And it was fun and interesting and I think just right on the money for spooky season. And I loved the little end part where you said that graves are just tiny love letters.
- [73:02]
A
They are like, if you think about it, and you're not gonna spend money and time and like, resources to putting up a memorial, Whether it be simple and small and plain or elaborate and decadent and opulent, like big to small, you're still doing it because you love that person and want to honor them. Unless you figured out for yourself beforehand, you're like, I'm commissioning this for me when I die. You know, largely, it's. It's. Unless you're setting yourself up, which is.
- [73:38]
B
Still A love letter to yourself.
- [73:40]
A
Right, right. And just a little the. At the very, very end here. Just a shout out for my primary resource, this book here, which I did mention in a quote earlier. It's called Over My Dead Body Unearthing the Hidden History of America's Cemeteries by Greg Melville. This book, I'm not even gonna lie is I read this last year and this is one of my favorite books of all time. Like top five book.
- [74:06]
B
Wow.
- [74:07]
A
Okay.
- [74:08]
B
That's a big honor. It is a lot of books.
- [74:11]
A
I do read a lot of books. It's just so incredible because it goes over, I mean, everything that I said and way more. He goes in depth with indigenous burials and the problems we've uncovered with, you know, African American burials and how, like I just mentioned with the talk death event that they've just been largely forgotten and how we used to segregate cemeteries, you know, segregation, even in death. And just he goes. Goes over everything. It's not just European centered, which is why I love this so much. It's kind of all encompassing. And he does a great job going over a complete history and even the parts that are difficult to face, but. And he starts. It's also cool because it's formatted from oldest to newest, east coast to West Coast.
- [75:02]
B
Interesting.
- [75:02]
A
So he'll start in like Plymouth, Mass. And then work over to like the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. And it's kind of like part travelogue, part history based. It's like he has his own because he's personally traveled to all of these places and it's great. It's really fun. So if you're interested at all in any part of this episode, I definitely recommend this book. Okay. Wow. Thanks everyone. I feel like I thought this was going to be a short episode and I feel like it was long.
- [75:31]
B
Yeah, I don't think it was short. You had a lot of information in.
- [75:35]
A
Wow. Okay. I'm. I'm so happy. So, yeah, if you. I was also in my outline, I even had like a little. It's funny because I still have the like header for it and I just never filled it in. I was going to talk about symbols and then I was like, I don't have the time. Who has the time?
- [75:53]
B
Who has the time for these things? That's what your Symbol series is for.
- [75:56]
A
Yeah, that's right. So if you were interested in that, be on the lookout for some chaotic material on.
- [76:02]
B
It's on Instagram right now and maybe one day it'll make its way to TikTok.
- [76:06]
A
We'll see yeah, we'll see. Okay, everyone, well, thank you so much for joining us and learning a little bit about the history of American cemeteries. We appreciate you so much. We'll see you next week.
- [76:19]
B
Yeah.
- [76:20]
A
In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye, everyone.
- [76:23]
B
Bye.
- [76:24]
A
Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark book club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tick Tock, and X at National Park After Dark.