344: Willing to Risk Death Daily: Pony Express National Historic Trail

Summary

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National Park After Dark

Episode 344: Willing to Risk Death Daily: Pony Express National Historic Trail
Hosts: Danielle & Cassie — Audioboom Studios
Date: December 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

Danielle and Cassie dive into the legendary (yet brief) saga of the Pony Express, exploring the iconic but short-lived mail system that blazed across the American West. Through a blend of humor, historical context, personal stories, and myth-busting, they unravel how the Pony Express became a symbol of adventure and heroism—despite its business failure, dangerous reality, and the many legends that obscure its true story. The episode is both a celebration of connection across distance and a reminder of the very real perils of the Old West, tied to the National Historic Trail that preserves its memory today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why We Long for Connection: Then and Now

• Danielle notes how instantaneous global communication is often overlooked (00:02). Contrasts today’s connectivity with the slow, dangerous process of getting news in the 1800s.
  • Quote: “We have always desired connection. And not so long ago ... there was a group of individuals who straddled their horses, stuffed their saddlebags with mail and risked their lives to deliver it.” (01:58)
• Playful lament over how e-commerce “spoils” us with instant delivery versus the waiting of the past (02:39).

2. Setting the Scene: The Story of Richard Cleave and Lincoln’s Election

• Danielle recounts (07:12) Richard Cleave awaiting telegraph news in 1860, ready to gallop west on the Pony Express carrying news of Lincoln’s victory—dramatizing the blend of anticipation and danger.

3. What Was the Pony Express?

• The Pony Express was a mail system run by the Central Overland, California and Pikes Peak Express Company, designed to move mail 2,000 miles in just 10 days—across some of the most unforgiving terrain in America (15:15).
  • Quote: “They promised mail would be delivered across the roadless and largely lawless West at an unheard of speed of just 10 days. ... But that's not because it lasted very long. It was out of business after just 18 months...” (15:15)
• Despite its mythic reputation, it was a financial flop, operating only from April 1860 to October 1861.

4. Who Started It and Why?

• William H. Russell, Alexander Majors, and William B. Waddell sought a government mail contract for big profits (18:11). Modeled after companies like American Express and Wells Fargo’s ventures.
• The Pony Express was a business gamble—its aim for rapid delivery was more about winning a lucrative government deal than public demand.

5. Three Obstacles: Nature, Violence, and Money

Nature

• Riders faced extreme weather—heat, snow up to 20 feet, mud like “pancake batter” (39:54).
• Often young, small, “wiry” riders, required to be expert horsemen—legendary ad: “Willing to risk death daily, orphans preferred.” (31:32)
• Notable story: Johnny Fry, a celebrity rider, and the (debunked) legend of inventing the donut to help him eat and ride (32:00).

Violence

• Outlaws and conflict zones plagued every route. Frontier justice meted out by characters like Jack Slade—who survived a double-barreled shotgun blast, then exacted revenge (47:38).
• Ongoing wars: Mormon Wars, Pyramid Lake War (53:19). The Paiute attack on a station is recounted, with wider violence and repercussions.
• Notable story: Elijah Nicholas Wilson survives an arrow to the forehead and returns to work (55:17).
• Self-defense: Riders got pistols (cost deducted from their pay), but were mainly told to flee danger (47:08).

Money

• $5 to send a letter—2–3 days’ wages at the time, so only the most urgent or wealthy sent mail (29:58).
• The company’s finances were a “house of cards,” involving shady IOUs, unpaid government contracts, and a failed embezzlement plot (58:22).
• Quote: “The service was more popular in theory than in practice, and few paid the relatively expensive postage fees.” (58:22)

6. Fact vs. Legend: The Myth-Making of the Pony Express

• No official company records (lost in a fire), so most tales blend fact and fiction (17:35).
• Mark Twain and, more significantly, Buffalo Bill Cody popularized the Pony Express in Wild West shows, claiming to have been a rider (historically dubious) (65:52).
• “Bronco Charlie” and other figures further muddied the waters, recounting ever-wilder exploits with unreliable details (81:07).

7. Buffalo Bill Cody’s Burial: A Side Quest

• Danielle shares the legend of Cody’s burial—was he secretly buried in Cody, Wyoming after a body swap? The story is probably untrue, but persists (70:55).
  • Quote: “To this day, it remains the largest funeral in Colorado's history.” (80:16)
• The truth most likely: Cody was buried by his own request on Lookout Mountain in Golden, Colorado, in a grave still visited today.

8. The National Historic Trail & Modern-Day Legacy

• The Pony Express National Historic Trail covers 1,800 miles across eight states, designated in 1992 (84:19). It’s not a continuous hiking trail, but marked by traces, structures, and annual re-rides.
• Each year, the National Pony Express Association reenacts the journey, carrying letters by horseback—over 750 riders and 1,000 letters (86:18).
• Modern echoes: For $5–$10, you can send a letter over the route as part of the commemorative re-ride (87:56).
• Over 60% of today’s re-riders are women—contrasting with the all-male cast of the original Express (85:41).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Danielle (00:02): “We take live zoom meetings, facetime, long distance lovers get in fierce comment wars ... In short, much of the world is interlinked ... but that desire is not new.”
• Danielle (31:32): “Wanted: young, skinny, wiry fellows not over 18. Must be expert riders willing to risk death daily. Orphans preferred.”
• Danielle on violence (47:38): “In the pony’s eyes, [Jack Slade] was an excellent middle manager.”
• Cassie (43:27): “These poor animals too...” (on horses in deep snow)
• Danielle (53:19): “The last main source of violence along the Ponies route was the simmering conflict between the United States and indigenous groups.”
• Danielle (87:56): “You don’t need to participate as a rider … you can apply to have one of them carry a letter for you and send somebody a piece of mail via this rewrite.”
• Danielle (90:28): “People died, got stuck, went through hell just to deliver the mail. … I think it is something that we take for granted now … but people used to have to wait. 10 days ... and people had to risk their lives to get that text message across.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Setting the Stage: Modern vs. Historical Communication (00:02–06:23)
• Story of Richard Cleave & Abraham Lincoln’s Election (07:12–09:40)
• What Was the Pony Express? (15:15–17:35)
• Obstacles and the Realities of the Ride (29:04–43:27)
  • Famous Ad for Riders (31:32)
  • The Donut Legend (32:00–36:42)
  • Rider Morality Code & Logistics (37:10–39:54)
  • Dangers of the Trail (Weather & Violence) (39:54–47:38)
• Frontier Justice: Jack Slade (47:38–50:36)
• Conflicts with Indigenous Peoples & Pyramid Lake War (53:19–58:22)
• Shady Finances, Downfall of the Pony Express (58:42–61:34)
• Mythologizing the Pony Express—Mark Twain, Buffalo Bill, Bronco Charlie (65:52–84:19)
• Buffalo Bill: Death, Burial Legends, and Legacy (70:55–80:36)
• The Modern Trail, Re-Ride, and Legacy (84:19–89:54)
• Reflection: The Value of Connection (89:54–91:01)

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Tone & Style

• Warm, conversational, and humorous—plenty of playful banter and digressions (like the true origins of the donut or the body swap legend).
• Respectful acknowledgment of the complex and often problematic history of the frontier, particularly regarding indigenous peoples.
• A passion for connecting past and present—inviting listeners both to think more deeply about history and to engage with it through trails, re-rides, and letter writing.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode…

This episode is both a fun and thorough look at the Pony Express: you’ll learn not only what it was, but why it mattered, who made it happen, what the real dangers were, and how a brief corporate flop became an enduring symbol of American adventure. You’ll hear wild stories (and debunkings), get tips for seeing or even joining modern day commemorations, and be reminded that the human urge to connect is both universal and timeless.

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For more resources, visit the National Pony Express Association, the National Historic Trail website, or check out “The Spirit of the Pony Express” documentary on YouTube.

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Transcript

[Danielle]

Existing here on the cusp of 2026, we are constantly bombarded with information what was once not so long ago. Weekly updates about current events has evolved into play by plays of real time happenings as they unfold. Global headlines splash across the daily papers, neighbors post consistently on community web pages, News stations offer 24 hour programming, YouTubers livestream and our phones constantly ping as te flood in from friends and family. We take live zoom meetings, facetime, long distance lovers get in fierce comment wars, cycle through emails and scroll through social media in an endless loop of checking messages and staying up to date on everything from the political climate to cookie recipes through the lens of a for your page. In short, much of the world is interlinked and this global connection shows face so frequently and so consistently, it's lost to us just how profound that is. No one batted an eye when in 2022, after the infamous slap heard across the world was broadcasted on the Oscars, that within mere seconds memes had been created and had gone viral by the end of the show. More seriously, we utilize this interconnectedness to stay informed of the atrocities unfolding beyond our borders and within them. We have come to expect this level of connectivity, but that desire is not new. People have always wanted to be in touch, share news, whether it be joyful, entertaining or devastating. But for most of our history, we had to do something nearly unbearable to think of today. We had to wait. People put quill to parchment or pen to paper and sent messages off into the world via couriers, birds, ships, trains and wagons. And knowing full well it would be weeks, if not months before their news was delivered. We have always desired connection. And not so long ago, in a small but memorable chapter of US history, there was a group of individuals who straddled their horses, stuffed their saddlebags with mail and risked their lives to deliver it. Welcome to National Park After D. Yeah.

[Cassie]

How am I going to live without overnight shipping?

[Danielle]

You can't anymore. I can't. I simply must.

[Cassie]

How would I survive? I see a pair of socks I want online, I want them at my.

[Danielle]

House tomorrow, and I want it now. Yeah. Isn't that. Oh, Daddy, I want it. I want it now. Isn't that Veruga from. Oh, from Willy Wonka. Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. My name is Danielle.

[Cassie]

And I'm Cassie. We're so excited to have you all here with us today. But before we get started, we have a very, very exciting announcement because we have a really fun event that we want to share with you all. And it's actually happening in my home state in Vermont, which is really exciting. We are going be hosting the 2026 BAM Film Festival at the Flynn Theater in Burlington, Vermont, which is my neck of the woods. And I'm really, really excited for. It's going to be happening in February. So the event is the sixth and seventh at the Flynn Theater and each night we're going to have a collection of films and different sets of awesome raffle prizes. The films being showcased focus on adrenaline fueled action, breathtaking landscapes and stories that stir the soul. All outdoor based.

[Danielle]

All outdoor based. And it's an event unlike anything we've ever participated in before. You know, usually we're hosting trips and doing wilderness first aid and this is outdoor adjacent, but just a totally different type of event and we're really excited to be a part of it. The films that are being showcased, like Cassie said, all outdoor based. We have gotten the preview links so we've gotten a sneak peek at them. They include stories from first ascents and whitewater thrills to personal triumphs and impossible journeys. This year's lineup is a tribute to half a century of pushing boundaries and living boldly. We are so excited to be hosting and emceeing the event and we really want you to come. Come join us.

[Cassie]

And not to get this confused with we are not. This isn't a podcasting event. This is a film festival that. That totally involves the outdoors that we get to kind of host, which is really, really fun.

[Danielle]

Yeah. So we are emceeing the event. We're not the main event. Yes, but we're there.

[Cassie]

We're there the whole time.

[Danielle]

Oh, we're in it. We're in. We're involved. We're up there. You can hang out with us. Yeah. Tickets are available right now if you are so inclined to come. We're going to be there both nights, so the sixth and the seventh, we're going to have like a merch table and we're just obviously going to be mingling around. So please come if you're in the area or if you ever wanted to visit Vermont in the winter. Maybe now this is your sign to do that.

[Cassie]

This is your sign. Vermont in the winter is awesome.

[Danielle]

Yeah. So we would love to see you there. And speaking of, this is the second part here and then we'll get to the story. But this is just a little. This is another sign, maybe a little piece of advice. Heads up that speaking of, like seeing you out and about and maybe getting some time together, like we mentioned in the newsletter earlier this month. If you're not part of the newsletter, we usually share news there first, but we are putting some things together that you will know about very soon, but our Patreon community will know about them first, and they will have first access to said things. So if you have been thinking about getting a Patreon subscription or are just, like, holding off for the perfect moment, just saying, you might want to consider.

[Cassie]

26 might be the time.

[Danielle]

Right. So. And that's all I'll say about that for now because I have so much more to say. This episode is so fun. I have been waiting so long to tell the story, and it's because it's something I'm so passionate about.

[Cassie]

Mail.

[Danielle]

And that's the postal service. You got mail.

[Cassie]

People are gonna be like, blue's Clues.

[Danielle]

Oh, yeah, yeah, you got mail.

[Cassie]

And then the little mailbox would open.

[Danielle]

And, yeah, that might be where my love of getting mail began, but who knows? I think that guy has a podcast now, Steve.

[Cassie]

Does he.

[Danielle]

His name was Steve, right?

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, now he does. Like, adult advice.

[Cassie]

Cool.

[Danielle]

Or something.

[Cassie]

Good for him.

[Danielle]

Yeah, he really stretched that. His. His career. Yeah.

[Cassie]

Blue's Clues was a little bit, like, I was a little too old when it first came out, but I would kind of secretly watch it with the younger kids because I was like, I know I'm old for this, but it's kind of. It's kind of got me hooked a little bit.

[Danielle]

Yeah, I'm interested. Yeah. Well, so, yes, today we are going to be talking about the mail, and I want to set the scene first with a little bit of a story. On November 7, 1860, Richard Cleave was waiting for a message. Sitting outside in the cold, he picked dirt from his boots, and his eyes anxiously shifted between the telegraph office and the vast open plains to the west. He was waiting for an important message, likely the most he would ever carry. By 1860, the telegraph was reshaping the spread of information in the United States. But telegraph wires had not yet crossed the country and neither had railroads, meaning that if you wanted to send a message from coast to coast, it could take weeks, if not months. Telegraph lines were making their way west, but for now, they reached only as far as Fort Kearney in south central Nebraska, where Richard Cleave was waiting. Richard was an employee of the Central Overland, California and Pikes Peak Express Company, a remarkable service that promised to carry mail between St. Louis, Missouri, and Sacramento, California, in just 10 days. A distance of nearly 2,000 miles traveled almost entirely on horseback by men, just like Richard. When Richard signed up, he knew three things. The pay was good, the work was hard, and the job was dangerous. Riders spent hours in the saddle, traveling 75 miles in a day before handing off mail to the next rider and repeating the same route in reverse. They rode day or night, rain, shine or snow, over mountains and through deserts, all the while to the best of their ability, avoiding horse thieves, outlaws, and full scale conflicts between the U.S. mormon settlers and indigenous groups. When Cleave looked out at the western horizon, did he worry about being bucked from his horse and breaking something? About getting lost, robbed, or struck by an arrow? All of these things and many more happened to riders just like him. But all of a sudden, the telegraph operator bursts through the door. The results are in. Abraham Lincoln is president. Richard climbed up on his horse, carrying news of the most important election of his lifetime. With a flick of his reins, he rode out into the darkness. And unbeknownst to him or any of the message, carrying riders of the time, straight into iconic American Western lore. So if you did not catch on by now, this is the story of.

[Cassie]

The Pony Express, not to be confused with the Polar Express.

[Danielle]

Thank you so much for saying that, because this is the entire reason I decided to do that, this episode right now.

[Cassie]

Because of me.

[Danielle]

Because of you. And I was try. I was racking my brain trying to remember when you said that or how it came out.

[Cassie]

It was relatively recently.

[Danielle]

I think it was sometime over the summer maybe. And yeah, I don't know. You were like, I know this. This is the Polar Express. And first, and we were referring. I was trying to refer to the Pony Express. I don't know, whatever. Either way, this is happening because of you. So thank you.

[Cassie]

You're welcome.

[Danielle]

For confusing it with the Polar Express.

[Cassie]

Can I ask what park this is?

[Danielle]

It's a national historic trail.

[Cassie]

Okay.

[Danielle]

And we'll get into the different stops and points of interest along this trail.

[Cassie]

So this isn't a freebie. It is.

[Danielle]

Oh, no.

[Cassie]

The National Park Service.

[Danielle]

This is not even close to a freebie.

[Cassie]

Cool.

[Danielle]

Love it. Yeah. So before we go on, I just have to say, like, yes. First of all, thank you so much for the inspiration.

[Cassie]

You're welcome. For gracing you with my residence.

[Danielle]

I honestly couldn't do this without you. So thank you for so many different things. But also, I really wanted to end out the year on a story that. Not that I'm not excited about other topics, but this one is just, like, fun. And it's interesting because I Feel like at some point in time, probably around the same time, we learned about the Bermuda Triangle and quicksand and the sun exploding. We also learned about the pony Express and then just brain dumped it.

[Cassie]

We were too busy. Stop dropping and rolling to remember it or to really.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Learn more about it. And so I had just very rudimentary knowledge about this chapter in history. And it's a lot more and a lot less at the same time that I would have thought.

[Cassie]

That's super confusing. It's a lot more and a lot less.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And we'll get into it, so great. Don't worry. But also, I just. I got a thing for the mail. I really do. I think that letter writing is a lost art. I keep almost every single letter ever. I mean, my mom. I have this huge bin that you usually use for clothes under my bed in my mom's house, like my childhood bedroom of. And I'm not talking about, like, letters that people have personally wrote to me that have to be pages long. They're anything from cards that someone just signs, like Love Cassie on or like. Like a Hallmark card or something. I just. I really think that having taking time and intention to write out a card or a note, buy postage, stick it on there, send it off. It's just. It feels so much better than getting an email or a text. Yeah. Yeah.

[Cassie]

And male has been so romanticized, especially throughout wars. You know, a lot of times when you look back, or a lot of books and movies really showcase this too. When men went off to war, the only way that women and men communicated, or lovers, or whoever they were, communicated families was through mail and through letters and handwritten things. And it was kind of the small view into people's lives that otherwise you had no contact and communication with. So I think that letters are really special, but they've also been very much romanticized throughout history as well.

[Danielle]

Yeah. So, um, Yeah, I guess let's talk about the pony express, because there's so much to say. I got. I went off on a couple of side quests here, so buckle up. Okay, great.

[Cassie]

I'm ready. This past summer, we were hiking the Highline Trail in Glacier National Park. And let me tell you, it is one of the most beautiful and breathtaking hikes I've ever done. Being out there for hours on a narrow ridgeline really reminded me how much my body does for me and how important it is to fuel it for adventures like that. If I'm trusting my body in places like that, I want to trust what I'm putting into it too. And honestly, I've grown pretty skeptical of product claims. Clean, natural, real ingredients. After a while it all starts to sound the same and your pantry ends up full of powders and supplements with labels that feel impossible to decode. That's why I really love cachava. It simplifies everything with ingredients I actually trust. It's an all in one plant based nutrition shake with no fillers, no artificial flavors or sweeteners and nothing extra that I don't need. It supports steady energy, digestion, muscle recovery, metabolism, brain health and immunity all in one place. And let me tell you, it is delicious. I usually mix mine with oat milk and a little bit of honey and I'm obsessed with the vanilla and matcha flavors. It takes about a minute to make and actually tastes so good, which matters because I'm not going to be drinking anything that I don't like. Just two scoops of Cachava gives you 25g of protein plus fiber, greens, adaptogens and more. It's non GMO, no soy, no animal products, no gluten and no preservatives with six delicious flavors to choose from. Rewild your nutrition at cachava.com and use code NPAD. New customers get $20 off an order of two bags or more now through the 31st. That's Kachava K A C-H-A V A.com code NPAD.

[Danielle]

Okay, so the Central Overland, California and Pikes Peak Express Company, better known as the Pony Express, was an iconic mail service that carried news 2,000 miles across the country through Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada and California before telegraphs or railroads had closed the gap. Most impressive of all, they promised mail would be delivered across the roadless and largely lawless west at an unheard of speed of just 10 days. Today, the Pony, as they call it, has become an icon of the old West. But that's not because it lasted very long. It was out of business after just 18 months and the company records were later lost in a fire. Can you believe it?

[Cassie]

Doesn't seem sustainable.

[Danielle]

Yeah, well, it wasn't 10 days cross country horseback. Yeah, I just, I think that's so interesting. That was the first thing that I was taken aback by because I feel like when you learn about something like this, learning about the Pony Express has stuck with me for my whole life. I would have thought it would have been a longer lasting, more permanent operation, but after just 18 months it was already. It fizzled out real quick.

[Cassie]

It's interesting that this piece of history has stuck with you for so long because for me, I've heard of the Pony Express before, but that's kind of it, like, oh, cool.

[Danielle]

Male.

[Cassie]

It's kind of for me, but I am very intrigued to learn more because now that you've outlined it, I'm like, wait, this sounds very exciting.

[Danielle]

Well, and I'm so glad because on one hand, my first initial reaction, as with a lot of things that you're like, yeah, I don't know, or I've never heard of that, or I'm never crossed my desk. You know, my first reaction is I'm taken aback and I'm kind of insulted somehow. Like, what do you mean? But this is what makes the podcast so great, because I get to share things with you that I feel like are kind of common knowledge. It wouldn't be as exciting if you're like, yeah, I know all about it. Like, okay, then why am I even telling you? And vice?

[Cassie]

But I feel like your stuff that you're like, this is common knowledge. I'm like, this is a niche that not everyone knows about.

[Danielle]

Yeah, YouTuber, everyone knows about this.

[Cassie]

I have been. You're like, I've known about this since I could read. Like, okay, I've literally never heard of that in my entire life.

[Danielle]

Okay, well, I'm happy about that. So, like I mentioned, not only did it last around 18 months, but all the official company records were burned up in a fire. So the stories that we are left with and that remain today are equal parts history and myth. Legends of real men who overcame incredible odds and the lies of others who. Who later hope to cash in on the fame of the Pony Express. So here is your up top warning. Everything deserves to be taken with a grain of salt and nothing that I say can be used against me later about this, okay, being true or not.

[Cassie]

It may or may not be true.

[Danielle]

Welcome. Welcome to National Park After Dark. Okay, so in the middle of the 19th century, America was a nation divided. Northern and Southern states were fighting in the halls of Congress over the future of slavery and the election of Abraham Lincoln, who many Southern politicians saw as radical. Didn't seem like it would settle the matter. And all the while, settlers with their own conflicting views began moving out west, attempting to start new lives on the vast and unforgiving American frontier. Earlier, travelers would reach the west via steamboat, traveling all the way around South America in a journey that could take upwards of six months in time. Wagon trains took pioneers along routes like the Oregon Trail. But while more and more settlers were arriving in the west, particularly in Gold Rush California. There was no way to quickly share news across the country. As I mentioned, railroad networks had begun to expand on both coasts, although there was nothing to yet connect them, at least not yet. You know, the advice people give in business when they're like, think of something that the world needs or that you would like to see in the world, but it does not yet exist. Think of that, whatever that is, and then create it. Like, that's a lot. That's how National Park After Dark came to be, you know, and that's kind of how the Pony Express came to be as well. There were three entrepreneurs, William H. Russell, Alexander Majors and William B. Waddle. And they had begun working together shipping goods for the U.S. army and began setting their sights higher. Like, what else could they be doing together? William Waddle was kind of like the accountant of the group who worked in the office to keep affairs in order. Alexander Majors, an ox driving man with firsthand knowledge and experience in the shipping business, kept things moving along on the ground. And William Russell was the ideas man. He was the ideas guy. He was always thinking, brainstorming, what can we do next? Better, greater, better. And his ideas would lead them to a lot of glory, but would also land him in jail. But that's for later on down the line here, so we'll get back to that. It was Russell's idea to launch the Pony Express, an extraordinarily long and ambitious delivery route designed to secure them a multimillion dollar government mail contract. In his mind, the only way to make money delivering mail was getting the government to pay you to do it. This route, he argued, would be the key to landing a contract and getting millions of dollars from the government.

[Cassie]

Millions.

[Danielle]

It'd be rich. After that, they would have a foothold across the frontier. And with any luck, they could turn that into a regional shipping monopoly, an empire that could force out other competition. And there was some precedent for this. Like this wasn't a new or novel idea because you may have heard of the company American Express, Amex. Everyone wants those like, don't they have like some card, gold card, it's like weighted or something. Is that the mx?

[Cassie]

I think so.

[Danielle]

It's like made of diamonds or something.

[Cassie]

We don't have it clearly.

[Danielle]

Clearly we haven't hit that level yet. So Amex was founded in upstate New York as a freighting and Delivery Company in 1850, and they leveraged the the Great Lakes to expand their business. Two of their co founders also started Wells Fargo, which offered similar services across California. Each worked alongside the US Postal Service, but advertised faster delivery and delivered to a wider range of locations, which carved out monopolies in their respective regions. Russell argued that they could follow this same model. And perhaps reluctantly, the other two guys, Majors and Waddle, agreed, although they seemed sure that the business was was gonna lose some money. To be fair, they had plenty of cause to doubt. Russell. Sure, this sort of thing had been done before, and clearly it was gaining success back then in 1850. And I mean, American Express and Wells Fargo to this day remain huge operations, but for them, this type of, you know, connecting, you know, coast to coast had never, never been done before. Especially over a route so long and treacherous and just looking at it at face value. There were three significant obstacles that they were concerned about. The first was Mother Nature. Across 2,000 miles between St. Joseph, Missouri and Sacramento, California, it would need to traverse the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra Nevada ranges, not to mention everything else in between. Riders would be faced with pouring rain in some places and complete lack of water in others. Punishing heat, freezing cold, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, Mother nature things. So that's one. The first thing is like, okay, well, anything can happen, weather wise and conditions wise, and this is a long way. And the second was violence. The frontier was a dangerous place, full of outlaws and vagabonds, but also US Sanctioned conflicts. Settlers and soldiers were fighting with native tribes across the West. And while Russell didn't know it at the time, like racing right when their idea was taking root and starting, the army would soon be fighting with Mormon settlers in Utah, which was a huge portion of their trail that or their route that they were going to run. And I had to take this time to talk about American Primeval, because I don't know if I've talked about that on the show yet, have I?

[Cassie]

I don't think so.

[Danielle]

Have you watched it? No. Have you heard of it?

[Cassie]

I've heard of it. I've seen, like, the little preview.

[Danielle]

Okay. Yeah. So American Primeval. It's a western historical drama. It's like a little limited series thing that was released earlier this year on Netflix, and it's inspired by the Real Life War, the Real Life Utah War, and events surrounding the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which clearly is all about Brigham Young and the growing tensions in the West. I have conflicting feelings about one scene in particular in this. I'm sure there's, like, people who really know Mormon history or, like, the history of this particular chapter may have more bones to pick, but there's a scene in it. So basically the show follows, like, this woman and her young child going west during this period of time and running into all these different conflicts between, you know, the Mormon wars and indigenous groups and all that. And they're fighting for their lives the entire time. But there's a scene that they're, like, trapped in this cabin and the walls are literally being ripped apart by vicious wolves trying to get into the cabin to get to them, to eat them.

[Cassie]

What, like in Utah?

[Danielle]

In. Somewhere along the. The western landscape, because they were heading to California.

[Cassie]

I didn't know wolves could rip apart cabins.

[Danielle]

Me neither. Until American Primeval came along and changed everything for me. Yeah, I was like, what the guys. Like, you had me every. This was so good. I was so. And I think the thing that kills me is it was following, like, it was so historically accurate in different scenes and obviously the whole premise. And then they just took a hard laugh.

[Cassie]

They threw that in there.

[Danielle]

Threw that in there. They did that with Franken. The new Frankenstein, too. Have you seen that?

[Cassie]

No, I haven't.

[Danielle]

There's a scene where there's just like a pack of bloodthirsty wolves that are just relentlessly tearing apart people anyway.

[Cassie]

People are so afraid of wolves as they watch things like that.

[Danielle]

I'm like, God. And I don't know, I. I hate to say this, that I don't know the true, like, Frankenstein, Mary Shelley, OG version since we covered her on Watch Her Cook, but I never. I haven't read Frankenstein yet. And maybe there is a scene where. Or descriptions of wolves and it's like, in that case, if you're mirroring the original work, I feel like that should be included. Yeah, but if it's not, I'm pissed.

[Cassie]

I feel like I have read Frankenstein in English class in, like, ninth grade or something, but I just don't remember it in detail. I know it was a required reading at some point in my life.

[Danielle]

Well, I don't know. It just feels like I think we can kind of move on from that whole trap of bloodthirsty wolves all the time. Like, what's. We know more, so we should do differently. All right, anyway, back to the story.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers.

[Matt Rogers]

From Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Bowen Yang]

JBL wireless earbuds are for those who are the first to try something unique.

[Matt Rogers]

The first wireless earbuds on the market with a touchscreen case which allows you to control your audio without reaching for your phone. They also have a touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control.

[Bowen Yang]

I love being able to touch my buds and control the volume with a.

[Matt Rogers]

Built in wireless transmitter that lets you you plug and play with any device you want. JBL Wireless Earbuds connects you to all your favorite music, movies and games.

[Bowen Yang]

The wireless transmitter also allows for JBL superior spatial sound that takes any audio and turns it into a 360 immersive experience.

[Matt Rogers]

They've got a next gen smart charging case for a seamless listening experience. Leave your phone in your pocket. The smart Charging case has all the features you need to fully control and customize your listening experience and the earbuds settings in multiple languages right from the case.

[Bowen Yang]

Use the smart charging case to see what song is playing or who's calling you or personalize the tactile screen with your favorite photo.

[Matt Rogers]

Check the dynamic lock screen to get info on battery life, status, time, messages.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

This is Rob Gronkowski from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings are sacred. I've got my game day routine coffee jersey laid out in my lucky playlist. But the real game changer New morning Uncrustables sandwiches.

[Julian Edelman]

I've always loved uncrustable sandwiches and now I'm all about the new flavors with 12 grams of protein. Bright eyed Berry or up an apple. Bright Eyed Berries got that flashy finesse vibe like your favorite slot receiver up an apple.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Tough and reliable like a do it all tight end.

[Julian Edelman]

And players love them. Did you know teams crush over 80, 000 uncrustable sandwiches a year? They know it's good.

[Rob Gronkowski]

It's a snack that can go with you anywhere from the couch to the tailgate or even in the locker room. Soft bread, Yummy fillings. Protein packed. Once it's part of your ritual, you.

[Julian Edelman]

Don'T skip it easy enough for Gronk to grab straight from the freezer.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with the new morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

[Danielle]

Back to the obstacles. So there's three mother nature, the violence and then the third was money, which money rules everything around me. You know, as a famous rapper once said. Who was that? I don't know. Oh my God. What? Do you know what I'm saying?

[Cassie]

I know the song you're talking about, but.

[Danielle]

Oh, Wu Tang Clan. Ah yeah. So as they know and as you know, money is everything. So from the beginning, the pony's promise of the 10 day delivery got a ton of publicity. Like that was almost unheard of. To send Mail that distance in just 10 days. But paying customers would prove few, few and far between. People celebrated the idea of this lightning fast route. Lightning fast, 10 days. Okay, we'll circle back to that.

[Cassie]

Overnight shipping, please.

[Danielle]

It's like, if it's not here in 48 hours max, I'm gonna lose it. But few people would actually pay the $5 needed to send a letter, which was at the time equivalent to two to three days worth of pay for the average worker. Like, that's a lot of money to.

[Cassie]

Send a lot of money for a letter.

[Danielle]

As a result, Russell, Majors, and Waddle would struggle to keep their doors open. But if they had any hope of getting it off the ground, they first needed to win a government contract. They had to prove their route would work. So on April 3, 1860, the Pony Express officially launched, and its first rider was set out westbound from St. Joseph, Missouri. So let's follow the route of the Pony Express, the obstacles it faced, and the people who worked to overcome them. Starting with the first nature. How did they plan a service that could carry letters 2,000 miles in just 10 days? The first step, of course, was hiring pony riders. They needed men who were both physically and mentally tough, who could spend a whole day in the saddle and were willing to face danger. And most importantly of all, they needed to be light, which usually meant they were looking to hire young men. Slash. Like older children, like teenagers. There was a famous advertisement for the Pony Express that sums things up pretty well. It read, quote, wanted young, skinny, wiry fellows not over 18. Must be expert riders willing to risk death daily. Orphans preferred.

[Cassie]

What?

[Danielle]

Unfortunately, that's messed up. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you slice it. That ad was made up years after the Pony Express went out of business. But the idea holds true. A typical rider was a frontier kid in his teens or early 20s who stood around 5 foot 4 and weighed 110 pounds. So they had to get there.

[Cassie]

If you think about it, jockeys are really small people.

[Danielle]

Yep, they are. One example was an employee named Johnny Fry. To describe Fry, the local paper wrote, tough and wiry, he was light as a cat. He led a 60 to 70 mile route between Missouri and Kansas, and along the way became a sort of local celebrity of the area. And the stories basically paint him as like, a heartthrob. And ladies and young women knew his roots because he did it so often. They would, like, stand outside and wait for him to pass by by and, like, give him things. And there's this one story that's, I think you'll Get a kick out of. In one of these stories, a woman had tried to hand was doing the same thing. They're like, oh, Johnny, Johnny boy is coming. I'm gonna stand outside and wait and I'm gonna give him something to remember me by. So she waited outside, tried to hand him a pastry, a cruller and which was like a deep fried pastry similar to a donut that today, if you're a donut enthusiast, it's kind of like twisted and kind of like braided almost into a donut instead of just like a plain round donut. Has like a light, airy texture. But at the time back then they were shaped like logs. But she. When she handed to. Handed it to him, she noticed he had a hard time. And this is according to the news. Okay. Or the legend. She noticed he had a hard time holding it while he rode away. I'm like, what's hard to hold about it? It's a straight piece of. It's a donut. Yeah, it's just like a stick. What's so hard about holding that?

[Cassie]

Put it in your mouth.

[Danielle]

But anyway, so she was like, oh my God, I must. Something must be done about this. So she. When she was making her next batch, she decided to do something differently because Johnny was having a hard time. So she took her normal piece of dough, but she twisted it and pressed its ends together, allegedly inventing the donut. And that's how the doughnut came to be. However, I mean many people around the little rings because Johnny couldn't hold it, she had to do something about that.

[Cassie]

Now you can hold your donuts way easier.

[Danielle]

I feel like it's almost hard to.

[Cassie]

Hold it on one finger. You just.

[Danielle]

Perfect. There would no be. There wouldn't be such thing as a donut tree or a donut hole or a munchkin. Right. Do we just call them munchkins here or is that a nationwide thing? I think it's donut hole usually, but munchkin does the trick for me. Right. They're the same thing.

[Cassie]

I thought a donut hole was literally the hole in between the donut.

[Danielle]

Oh, we're talking about different things. The munchkin is resulted miniature donut. No, really? I thought the munchkin was the what is resulted from take from creating a donut hole. It's like that. Oh, what am I thinking? They punch out donuts. We.

[Cassie]

I don't know.

[Danielle]

I don't. I don't know.

[Cassie]

Munchkins are just rolled up dough that are smaller than normal sized donut. You're so overthinking this.

[Danielle]

I know, I know. Okay, I gotta get back on track here. I never thought about how munchkins were made until right now. To me, it just felt like, oh, they just punch out the hole. But I guess not.

[Cassie]

I mean, they use that extra dough, but I have a feeling that they just don't use that dough. In general. They probably have a.

[Danielle]

No. We're sounding so stupid right now. And I hesitate.

[Cassie]

Speak for yourself. If I knew that this was.

[Danielle]

No, but the extra dough. There is no extra dough because they just. As this woman, because of Johnny, she just like, put it together. It's. She's not punching out anything. There is no punch out.

[Cassie]

I never envisioned a punch out.

[Danielle]

I did. I'm like, that's how munchkins are made. Wow, I feel really dumb. It's humbling. This has been a humbling episode. Thank you for suggesting it to me. Okay, well, all that to say, I just really shot myself down a few tears by.

[Cassie]

Okay, I'll get back up.

[Danielle]

Thank you. I gotta say something smart, which is, I also know that this is a legend. And you should also known that. And you should also know that because so many other people have claimed to invent the donut, not this random woman that wanted to impress a Pony Express rider. So there's.

[Cassie]

I think she did it.

[Danielle]

Okay. Don't even know her name. I believe written.

[Cassie]

She seems wholesome and trustworthy.

[Danielle]

Okay. The things we've done to impress men throughout time. You know, invented donut, invented staple item food items. Yeah. That couldn't hold something.

[Cassie]

Yeah. You couldn't hold a piece of food. So we changed the way the food was shaped.

[Danielle]

Right. Just for you.

[Cassie]

How would you survive without us?

[Danielle]

Truly, they. Yeah, that's an entirely other conversation. But the short story is they wouldn't. So knowing full well that they were going to be targeting young men to be hired for this position or these types of positions and young men usually equals trouble and rambunctiousness and getting into things they shouldn't be doing. The one of the guys, Alexander Majors, he was like, we need to create a moral code for these guys. Like, we need to make them make some promises that they're not going to be crazy out there. So when the Pony Express hired someone, he required that they sign a pledge that prohibited them from drinking alcohol, gambling, fighting, or swearing. Like, those were the rules. Majors was a very religious guy and he was very proud of the standards of this gentlemanly conduct that he created for their employees. However, most accounts suggest that the rules Were only followed when he was around because you could often find writers along the route in saloons, probably saying a lot and. Yeah, yeah, doing bad, bad things. In total, the pony had about 80 riders on staff at any given time. Because in order to make the route reliable, they turned it into a sort of relay race. So one rider clearly wasn't going 10 days straight over 2,000 miles. It was broken up into smaller sections. Each rider was responsible for a roughly 75 mile route. And at both ends there would be what they call a home station. Riders would receive the mail at one home station, ride 75 miles to the next and hand it off to the next rider. Only then after about six to nine hours on shift, they would have their day be done. The letters were carried in a mochila, the Spanish term for knapsack. And it kind of is a little bit misleading because it's not like a sack of mail that they just threw over their saddle on the back of their horses. It was more of like a leather saddle covering that was made of leather. And it had four different pockets or cantinas that they used to hold the mail and the letters and packages and things like that. And the pockets were, interestingly, all kept locked. Three of the pockets could only be opened at military posts which were located at Fort Kearney, Laramie, Bridger, Churchill and in Salt Lake City. And the fourth pocket, which could be opened by a station master at any of the other stations, held a time card to record the riders arrival and departure times, to keep track of their. Their routes and stuff.

[Cassie]

It makes sense to lock it up because I bet a lot of these letters had money in them. Yeah.

[Danielle]

And we've talked a lot about train robberies and people are always after the mail. Mail carts are usually the most sought after. So these riders rode their horses at a quick trot, about 10 miles an hour or so to account for the rough terrain. And when they needed to make up time, they would break out into a gallop more like 25 miles an hour. And to prevent the horses from getting too worn out, they would switch them every miles or so at different relay stations, which weren't anything elaborate. They were basically like shacks with horse stables in them, Just basic shelter stations. And as you could imagine, these regular horse changes were key to the fast delivery time. When it came to big developments like that of the Lincoln election, they placed temporary relay stations every five miles along the route, which helped the pony deliver the news in just eight days. So they rode them fast and hard and switched them out more Frequently when they wanted to get things faster, done faster. But despite this well planned route, weather packages arrived on time often came down to the weather. In the deserts west of Salt Lake, the ground became treacherous when you stayed on the trail. Some travelers described the ground as sticking to hooves and shoes like the slop of pancake batter. But if you wander too far off the trail, you and your horse could wind up in knee deep mud like quicksand. Temperatures could swing from well below freezing to nearly 100 degrees. And since many riders often traveled at night, a moonless night, or any sort of storm that obscured the moon, it could cost you hours and hours worth of wandering because you have no sense of direction out there. But of course, the most significant obstacle was the snow. The service ran year round, traversing both the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra Nevada, where snow could drift upwards of 20ft feet deep. For reference, the route through The Sierras in 1860 wasn't that far away from where the Donner party had been snowed in 1847. And if you want to hear that story, you can find it on our subscription platforms. I covered it or recounted the story in July of this year. We did. We covered the daughter recently. So take the story of pony rider William Campbell. Campbell wanted to be a pony rider and by all accounts was tough enough to do it. He had been caught in a stampede of hundreds of bison and lived to tell the tale. So he had kind of proved himself that he could survive different obstacles that he may encounter out along the pony express route. But he was told he was too big. Six foot one and £140. Soon, though, that didn't matter because By December of 1860, all of the other riders in his area had quit. So he kind of got the job by default. Like, yeah, well, you're the, you're the only one left, so I guess you can do it.

[Cassie]

Congrats.

[Danielle]

Shortly afterwards, he was riding through a blizzard where the snow drifted to nearly his saddle, fighting to break the snow, inching slowly to the next station in Kearney, only to arrive and find no relief rider, because apparently they had all quit too. But no one knew. And so he rode on, fighting through the wind and snow towards the town of Kearney, another 20 mil away. By the time he arrived, he had been in the saddle for over 24 hours. The return trip to his home station would take another four days. Another rider in the Sierra spent three and a half hours digging by hand to get around a pack of mules that were snowed in place on the trail like the snow was so deep they literally couldn't move.

[Cassie]

These poor animals too.

[Danielle]

They're going through a lot. As a result of all of this and much more, the pony's promise of this 10 day delivery was lengthened to 15 days in winter. It was like a little asterisk moment, like fine print moment. It's like 10 days, but 15 if it's not inside. But in a testament to the riders, the weather slowed them down but never stopped them. That brings us to the second obstacle, and that's conflict and violence. Some of what you expect like outlaws, but also some you may have never heard of. Years before the Pony Express, Russell, Majors and Waddle found themselves in the middle of what would later become the Mormon Wars. In 1857, Brigham Young was both the leader of the Mormon Church and the governor of the Utah Territory. Many in Washington were very concerned about this dual role that he had and the, the trajectory it was heading towards. And in an effort to exert more control, the region decided to oust Brigham Young as governor. President James Buchanan picked his replacement. And anticipating resistance to this decision, they sent the new governor to Utah with the US army for like backup. Russell, Majors and Waddle won a contract to deliver supplies to the army while they were in Utah. And they put together a long train of transport wagons to carry that cargo. But along the way, Mormon guerrilla troops raided the wagons, destroying $300,000 worth of their own equipment and just as much of the supplies that they were carrying for the army. By the end of that year, the three had lost the equivalent of $25 million of owed to them by the government. But the government never paid. The three entrepreneurs had financed this contract in the first place by taking out loans that were coming due soon. So this put them in a serious hole, in a tough position. Russell appealed to the Secretary of War, John Floyd, the man in charge of the army. Floyd said Congress was the problem. They wouldn't allocate any money. It's kind of like he had. He couldn't do anything about it. But somehow Russell managed to convince the secretary to write what were called acceptances. And these acceptances were essentially notes that said the War Department was gonna pay the company $400,000 at some point in the future. So it was basically like a fancy iou, a very expensive someday, someday we might pay you. It's coming.

[Cassie]

Maybe just like, hold on a little bit longer.

[Danielle]

Well, 400 grand will be coming your way.

[Cassie]

When?

[Danielle]

Believe us, it's a surprise. We're not sure. Long story short, it turned out that the secretary had no authority to issue those acceptances. But Russell did not know that at the time. So he used that to keep the doors open. He's like, oh, I have hundreds of thousands of dollars coming. Like, it's fine. So this very brief version of their backstory shows that the pony express was kind of a hail Mary project, as the three men desperately TR to win more and bigger contracts to climb out of the hole that they had found themselves in financially during the Mormon war. By the time the pony was operating, the route itself went through many places that earned the wild west's reputation. Places with gunfights, outlaws, and ambushes that were very, very common when they were hired. Pony riders were offered self defense in the form of a pistol whose cost would be taken out of their pay. But in practice, speed was the best defense that they had. Riders were instructed to stay in the saddle and outrun any opponents or potential ambushes. It's like, is your life in danger? Just run really fast. Get out of there.

[Cassie]

You got this.

[Danielle]

I hope your horse is good.

[Cassie]

You're small, your horse can move.

[Danielle]

Just get on out of there.

[Cassie]

Yeah, what's the big deal?

[Danielle]

While riders could stay on the move, the horses kept at relay stations, though, were very easy targets. Horse theft had become a huge problem on the stretch between Nebraska, Colorado, and Wyoming in particular. And with no law to appeal to in that area, the pony relied on a man named Jack Slade.

[Cassie]

What a name. Jack Slade.

[Danielle]

He was everything you would expect from an old west character, Especially named Jack Slade.

[Cassie]

Yeah, Jack Slade is handsome. He can ride any horse. He's a cowboy.

[Danielle]

He's Jack Slade. He's Jack. He's Jack Slade.

[Cassie]

He's Jack Slade. He can do anything he wants. He'll steal your girl. He'll save the world.

[Danielle]

He knows how to hold the donut.

[Cassie]

Oh, he doesn't need a hole.

[Danielle]

Yeah, No, he does not.

[Cassie]

Okay, tell me who Jackson is.

[Danielle]

I'm sorry, I. I'm flustered. Okay, well, being generous. He was an expert marksman with a reputation for frontier. Just for frontier justice. I feel like I say it like this.

[Cassie]

Of course he was Jack Slade.

[Danielle]

Others, though, call them a murderer and an alcoholic. But in any event, in the pony's eyes, he was an excellent middle manager. I tried to keep that accent going as long as I could, and it. It's faded real quick. Slade was appointed superintendent of a stretch of the Nebraska Colorado route where horses had a habit of going missing and was tasked with solving the problem. While he likely did not approach the investigation with what we would categorize as the utmost care and rigor. He accused a man named Jules Rennie, the informal mayor of the area, and took what he believed were the stolen horses and back to the company stables. So the depth of investigation is probably non existent. He, I think he just kind of was like, yeah, this guy did it. I'm taking these horses back to company stables and like these look like ours. Yeah. But Jules was like hey, I didn't do that. Like those are our horses. So he's pissed. And he and some friends ambushed Slade, unloaded a double barreled shotgun into his chest and left him to die.

[Cassie]

But he lived.

[Danielle]

Because he's Jack fucking Slade.

[Cassie]

Because he's Jack Slade.

[Danielle]

Jules then fled town to avoid being charged for the murder. But of course not Jack Slade, not our guy. He wasn't dead.

[Cassie]

Of course not. Takes more than a gunshot wound to the chest to kill this guy.

[Danielle]

A double barreled shotgun blast to the chest.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Nothing, nothing can kill Jack Slade. After a short stint in St. Louis Hospital, Slade tracked Jules down and return the favor. Shooting him out of his saddle and taking one of his ears as a souvenir. Oof. Needless to say, when Slade returned to his job as area superintendent on the pony, outlaws thought twice about crossing him.

[Cassie]

I'm sure he's holding an ear.

[Danielle]

I feel like he's wearing it on a necklace.

[Cassie]

Same. Or his horse is wearing it as a necklace.

[Danielle]

It's like on the bridle like hanging off or like like. Yeah, on his forelock. It's like a human ear.

[Cassie]

It's braided into his.

[Danielle]

Because nothing says don't with me. Like a human ear necklace. You know it's true. So.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang and Matt.

[Matt Rogers]

Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Bowen Yang]

JBL wireless earbuds are for those who are the first first to try something unique.

[Matt Rogers]

The first wireless earbuds on the market with a touchscreen case which allows you to control your audio without reaching for your phone. They also have a touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control.

[Bowen Yang]

I love being able to touch my buds and control the volume.

[Matt Rogers]

With a built in wireless transmitter that lets you plug and play with any device you want. JBL wireless earbuds connects you to all your favorite music, movies and games.

[Bowen Yang]

The wireless transfer transmitter also allows for JBL superior spatial sound that takes any audio and turns it into a 360 immersive experience.

[Matt Rogers]

They've got a next gen smart charging case for a seamless listening experience. Leave your phone in your pocket. The Smart Charging Case has all the features you need to fully control and customize your listening experience and the earbud settings in multiple languages right from the case.

[Bowen Yang]

Use the Smart Charging Case to see what song is playing or who's calling you, or personalize the tap tactile screen with your favorite photo.

[Matt Rogers]

Check the dynamic lock screen to get info on battery life, status, time, messages, etc.

[Bowen Yang]

JBL Wireless Earbuds grab a [e-mail] this.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Is Rob Gronkowski from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules Sunday mornings are sacred. I've got my game day routine, coffee jersey laid out and my lucky playlist. But the real game changer New Morning.

[Julian Edelman]

Uncrustables Sandwiches I've always loved uncrustable sandwiches and now I'm all about the new flavors with 12 grams of protein. Bright Eyed Berry or up an Apple Bright Eyed Berries got that flashy, finesse vibe like your favorite slot receiver up an apple.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Tough and reliable like a do it all tight end.

[Julian Edelman]

And players love them. Did you know teams crush over 80,000 uncrustable sandwiches a year? They know it's good.

[Rob Gronkowski]

It's a snack that can go with you anywhere from the couch to the tailgate or even in the locker room. Soft bread. Yummy fillings. Protein packed. Once it's part of your ritual, you don't skip it.

[Julian Edelman]

Easy enough for Gronk to grab straight from the freezer.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with the new morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

[Danielle]

The last main source of violence along the Ponies route was the simmering conflict between the United States and indigenous groups. Tribes across the west had faced an influx of white settlers, had lost access to their traditional homelands, and had caused to feel mistreated by a frontier filled with men like Jack Slade who took what they wanted, had itchy trigger fingers, and had their own idea of justice. This relationship played out differently within each tribe, but the pony was at the center of a conflict with the Paiute people. The Northern Paiute, or Nu Mu, are indigenous people of the Great Basin, including what is now Oregon, Nevada, and eastern California, a region that the Pony Express traveled directly through starting in 1860. That same year, two Paiute girls went missing near Pyramid Lake in Nevada, and while there are many versions of this story, many state that the missing girls had been held captive and raped at a Pony Express station nearby. Outraged Paiute men killed five men at this pony station and burned it to the Ground settlers reported it as an unprovoked, bloodthirsty attack, and it kicked off a series of violent battles known as the Pyramid Lake War. While much of the violence erupted between Paiute soldiers and militias, it affected everyone in the region. One of those people was a pony rider named Elijah Nicholas Wilson. Wilson had been raised by a Mormon family and moved to Utah from Illinois in 1850. At one point, he ran away from home and spent two years living with a band of Shoshone people. And when he returned back to, quote, unquote, white society, he started working for the Pony Express. During the summer of 1860, the height of the Pyramid Lake War, Wilson noticed two native men attempting to steal horses from a pony station and pursued them with his pistol, only to be struck above the left eye by an arrow. Friends quickly rushed over and tried to remove it, but the arrowhead was firmly lodged in his skull, in his forehead.

[Cassie]

I mean, they were trying to remove it. His friends just ran over and started trying to pull this arrow out of his face.

[Danielle]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Cassie]

Let me get to a hospital. Jesus.

[Danielle]

Well, they kind of assumed that he was toast. Like, who is going to survive an arrow to the forehead?

[Cassie]

Oh, I thought it was under his eyeball.

[Danielle]

No, it's above his left eye.

[Cassie]

Oh. I was picturing it for some reason below his eye.

[Danielle]

Oh.

[Cassie]

And they were just trying to rip it out of his face.

[Danielle]

I mean, it's still his face, so. Yeah.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Well, they're like, he's done for. What are we gonna do with him? So they hid his body in a bush because they were worried that if he was to be discovered that he would be scalped. So they. They put him. They kind of hid him away. They assumed he was probably gonna die, but either way, they went to the next station to seek safety for themselves. They returned the following day with shovels to give their friend a proper burial, only to find that he had survived. They rushed him to a nearby station and he spent the next two and a half weeks unconscious. But he miraculously did wake up. After his recovery, he even returned to work and ride for the Pony Express, although he did have chronic headaches for the rest of his life because he got hit bad in the face with an arrow.

[Cassie]

Yeah. To go back to that job, too. Man, they must have been paying well, that.

[Danielle]

And it's like, what? Yeah, it's work you need to survive, you know, and it's like going back to your job. Yep. Just a little workplace accident. Yeah. This short lived conflict from May to August of 1860 would lead the Paiute people to be confined to reservation life. It was also the most significant interruption the Pony Express ever suffered to its Service. The promised 10 day delivery during this period of time stretched to over a month. And the company spent the equivalent of a million dollars to repair the damaged stations in the region that were burnt and ransacked and destroyed. And it was during this war that the pony suffered its one and only lost mail delivery. 1.

[Cassie]

Wow, that's a really good track record.

[Danielle]

Do you know how much mail gets lost every day right now?

[Cassie]

My mail.

[Danielle]

You're don't even deliver my mail to.

[Cassie]

The neighbors all the time, every week.

[Danielle]

But the Pony Express, just one would never. The Pony Express and Jack Slade would never allow that to happen. While the service did suffer delays, of course, the only mail pouch to not reach is the. Its destination was, quote unquote, stolen by Indians during the Pyramid Lake War. However, somehow it was recovered years later, and you can actually see it for yourself in the National Postal Museum in Washington, DC. Scrawled across the front of the missing mail piece is written in big looping cursive, recovered from mail stolen by the Indians in 1860.

[Cassie]

And they still didn't deliver it.

[Danielle]

Well, it's. It was after the Pony Express had gone defunct and it was.

[Cassie]

Yeah, so an address is still on it.

[Danielle]

They're like, I think it was ours.

[Cassie]

Imagine going to a museum and just seeing your mail sitting.

[Danielle]

I know, it's like you're like, I've.

[Cassie]

Been waiting for that.

[Danielle]

And to round out the obstacles, let's talk about money. Honey, money rules everything around me. If you're focused on only the headlines, the Pony Express was a runaway success. Newspapers in Salt Lake City credited the Pony with being able to get news from Washington in just six days rather than three months. When they carried the news of Lincoln's election, they required every dispatch to include the line via the Pony Express, cementing their name in the public eye like they marketed hard. And it worked. But as we said before, the service was more popular in theory than in practice, and few paid the relatively expensive postage fees. We also mentioned that Russell, Majors and Waddle were in a ton of debt after the Mormon war and had been paying their way with questionable may or may not be legal IOUs. And on top of that, they lost even more money during the Pyramid Lake War. The Pony Express had been pitched by William Russell as a sort of Hail Mary play, hoping to recoup their debts by securing a massive mail contract. But with their losses mounting up and the nation teetering on the edge of the Civil War, things were looking pretty bleak as time went on. The loans Russell had taken out, using government IOUs as collateral, were coming due and he could not pay. He went scrambling back to the Secretary of War, John Floyd, to secure new acceptances in order to take out new loans, paying off old debts with new ones at even worse interest rates. It was like a financial house of cards ready to tumble down. When he went to Congress to petition them to pay back the money he believed he was owed from the Mormon War, it backfired because he and his company were smeared as war profiteers. In July of 1860, President Buchanan caught wind of the shady acceptances scheme. Like the weird IOU situation that was happening between him and Secretary Floyd. And he immediately put a stop to it, leaving Russell with around $150,000 of debt coming up due and no new IOUs to pay it off. And if that information became public, it would be a huge scandal for both the Secretary of War and for Russell, and it would likely mean the end of their careers if that was. If that news was to get out. So frantically appealing to anyone he could within the government, Russell met a man named Goddard Bailey. Bailey was a clerk for the Department of the Interior and happened to be related to Secretary Floyd. So there are some connections there. And the two conspired to steal $870,000 of bonds from an account managed by the Indian Bureau, which Russell could use to pay off his debts and hopefully avoid scandal. Which is like you're avoiding scandal by stealing $850,000. That makes no sense at all.

[Cassie]

The math's not mathing correct.

[Danielle]

Yeah, like that feels like even more.

[Cassie]

Of a scandal, but feels like you're digging yourself deeper. But it.

[Danielle]

Okay, yeah. Well, long story short, it didn't work. And Russell was actually caught and arrested on Christmas Eve of 1860, facing charges of embezzlement and larceny. And I'll spare you all the details, but long story short, Russell was never charged. He was led off on a technicality, but the damage had been done to his reputation, and the reputation of the Pony Express was permanent. They would not be awarded the mail contract they'd so desperately hoped for, and their business was doomed. The next mail contract, signed in March of 1861, specified that their remaining operations were to be taken over by Wells Fargo, who would try to balance their budget. It also wrote into the terms that the Pony Express would formally end with the completion of the transcontinental telegraph line, which had been inching closer and closer Every month that the pony was in business, the Pony Express had grown to more than 100 stations, 80 riders and between 400 and 500 horses. But by October 24th of 1861, the pony was no more. After 18 short months, the ride was over. Or was it? The pony was never intended to be a permanent business. I mean, of course, it's a temporary solution for something that's being actively worked on with the railroad and telegraph lines. Like that's a certainty that's going to happen. It was just kind of, I think it was like, let's make all the money that we can while we can, before this isn't necessary anymore, right? But somehow, even in bankruptcy and its short life, it has achieved a sort of mythical status in our memory of the American west, celebrated as an icon, not a short lived, scandal ridden business. Not long after the pony closed its doors, it began to appear in American literature. And while lots of people wrote about it, none were quite so famous as Mark twain. In an 1872 book about his own trip out west, he wrote about the Pony Express in part saying the pony rider was usually a little bit of a man, brimful of spirit and endurance. Whether it led through peaceful regions or regions that swarmed with hostile Indians, he must be always ready to leap in the saddle and be off like the wind. He rode 50 miles without stopping by daylight, moonlight, starlight, or through the blackness of darkness, etc. Etc. Etc. But while Twain and the other writers helped keep the memory of the pony alive, someone else else help cement its legacy in American history. And that is Buffalo Bill Cody. William F. Cody was a legendary frontiersman. He knew the west well and served as a scout for the military. He remains the only civilian to earn a medal of Honor issued for his courage during a skirmish with a band of Lakota people in Nebraska. He was reportedly an expert hunter and with his reputation, served as a hunting guide to some of the most famous people in America. In time, his fame and celebrity would grow as he became a showman, launching a massively successful Wild west traveling show that recreated life on the frontier. Skits and plays that told stories of cowboys and Indians, gun twirling, tales of adventure that he or his friends experienced. He invited other personalities like Annie Oakley and Sitting Bull, each sharing performances from their own lives. Or maybe stories that Cody heard somewhere, or maybe stories that he just made up entirely. But whatever the case, they were an incredible success, unbelievably so, turning Cody into a global celebrity. But while his show would feature new stories and performers, each Touring season, it always opened the same way, the tale of the Pony Express and its riders. Cody was proud to say that he was a rider himself, working for the murderous superintendent, Jack Slade, and notching some downright heroic rides under his belt. In one story, he claimed to outrun 15 indigenous men and another to have ridden over 300 miles after another rioter had been killed in the line of duty. But historians are pretty sure, like 99 sure, that Cody was never a pony rider, ever at all. He may have worked as like a stable hand at one of the stations, like the relay stations, or maybe he was a messenger for supply trains, like maybe he worked Pony Express adjacent. But he was never. There was no evidence that he was at an actual rider for the Pony Express.

[Cassie]

Interesting.

[Danielle]

And by all accounts, actually at the time, he may have been too young to be a rider and they were hiring people like 18 years old like he was a child during the Pony Express.

[Cassie]

Gotcha.

[Danielle]

Nonetheless, it was Cody's traveling show that propelled the Pony Express to the status of the Western icon that it is now. He found and hired former pony riders and brought them on stage to perform. He even tracked down one of the company's founders, the alcohol hating curse. Hating like pledge founder. That was like, hey, I hereby swear, no swearing, no swearing, no drinking, no, you know, no being bad. So that guy was Alexander Majors. And at the time when Cody tracked him down, he was now in his 70s and he was involved in this too. In the production of that, with the help of Cody's favorite ghostwriter, Majors published an autobiography with Tales of the Pony Express. Cody single handedly helped to promote not only the Pony Express, but the Wild west as a subject of fascination. And Cody hired that same ghostwriter to publish over 200 books in his name. Just a little side note, he loved talking about the West. And I do want to note right now that Buffalo Bill Cody is remembered as a mixed bag. He's considered to be problematic due to his roles as a U.S. army Scout and indigenous hunter who participated in violence against Native Americans. And his Wild west shows often misrepresented and stereotyped indigenous people. He's pretty controversial nowadays. I mean, he did do a lot of good, but he also was pretty shitty, you know, like it's a story, it's something we say all the time of describing historical figures and things like that. So I, I don't want to go into it any further about him in that regard, but I just want everyone to know I am very well aware. Yes. So yes, he is controversial, but this is, as I mentioned at the very top of the episode, there's a side quest. This is a side quest we're going to go on real quick because I couldn't let this opportunity pass because there is a story here about Buffalo Bill Cody and it's kind of like a scandal and it's one that I don't feel passionately about, but I'm very interested in because I lived really, really close to where this took place and I know a ton of our listeners live nearby the center of the story, so I wanted to share a condensed version of it. Cool. If you'll allow me yes please.

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[Danielle]

Buffalo Bill Cody is buried on top of Lookout Mountain in downtown Golden, Colorado. Allegedly.

[Cassie]

Oh, allegedly. Interesting.

[Danielle]

He died in January of 1917 at 70 years old from kidney failure and his casket was paraded through the streets of Denver to the Colorado State Capitol building where more than 25,000 people paid their respects to him. After the funeral at the Denver Elks Lodge, his body was taken to Olinger's Mortuary in Denver, which is now a restaurant called Linger. And here's another story within a story. But it's really cool. So were you here, did you go ever go to Linger with me? It would have been a really long time ago.

[Cassie]

I don't think so.

[Danielle]

So it's really hard to miss if you live in Denver. But it's really cool. And I'm going to pull just the description from our friends over at Atlas Obscura because they do a good job talking about it. So this restaurant Linger. When the building was purchased by its new owners, they immediately embraced the space's morbid history. The rooftop neon sign that used to say O Linger Mortuaries was barely altered and the capital O is turned off so now it just says Lingerie. And Mortuaries was slightly altered so it says eateries. And the morgue's old AC units have been turned into hanging lamps, glass topped metal conveyor belts are now used as tables, water is served from formaldehyde bottles, and a church pew is used as the host stand. The ground floor boasts large garage doors that once welcomed corpse laden hearses and now they just open to offer some merch breeze during the summer. And below, the restaurant in the basement is now a mixed use retail space that includes an athletic club, somewhat ironically because that's where the embalming space once was and where bodies were preserved, including Buffalo Bill Cody's body.

[Cassie]

Interesting.

[Danielle]

I had a really good burger there before. I love that spot. It's so fun. Anyway, so back to Cody. While his body was at this space that you can now go have a cheeseburger at when he is his corpse was hanging out there. His wife Louisa was inundated with monetary offers from representatives in Denver to bury her husband in Colorado in hopes that the spot would become a major tourist attraction. Like, he is one of the most famous people in the world at this point in time. Everybody knows him. They're like, this is a. We want him here because we want the money that will be generated from people coming to see his, his grave, right? So despite all the fame that he had achieved and all the money that he made during his lifetime, despite all of that, by the time he actually did pass away, him and his wife were pretty broke. So wanting the money, she accepted the offer. And that really upset a lot of people because when she arrived back home to, you know, the whole ass town of Cody, Wyoming, named after him, they were like, okay, where is he? Like, what the hell?

[Cassie]

They wanted him.

[Danielle]

They wanted him. Allegedly. Some of his friends that were particularly upset devised a plan to right the wrong they believed Louisa made. The friends devised a plan to travel to Denver to switch bodies and bury Cody on Cedar Mountain in Wyoming. When a local ranch hand had died and his body went unclaimed, the three made their move. According to the story, after the friends reached Denver, they presented themselves to Olinger Mortuary as Buffalo Bill's friends that just wanted to see him, say goodbye, pay their final respects. After viewing the body, they thanked the mortician and made him believe that they were gonna just head on back to Wyoming. Now, thank you so much. But in reality, they were casing the place. And later that night they broke in and switched the body of Buffalo Bill with the lookalike who they even tried to make look, look even more similar to him by like shaving his facial hair in the classic Bill Cody. Like, it's a. I don't know what it's called, it's not a goatee, but he had a very distinct facial cut haircut. They're like, let's just try and make him look identical to him. And as with anyone does anything risky and illegal, especially, you know, like a full ass body heist, you could imagine they got a little nervous that they were going to get caught and they started to worry. They were scared that someone would notice the body swap. So the friends decided to create a diversion. They made the rounds to all of 13 saloons in Cody, Wyoming, and riled up the people of the town and urged them to drive to Denver, grab the body of Buffalo Bill and return him to Cody for a proper burial. So they're like, hey, isn't it messed up that Denver is keeping. Yeah, they're like, don't allow that.

[Cassie]

He's ours. Like, yeah, how are they going to stop us if all of us go right?

[Danielle]

So they get all, they round up all these people, more than 350 well armed, probably very intoxicated men to go down there. And Denver police learned of this caravan as it was on its way, alerted the mortuary and rushed towards Wyoming to intercept the group. Before they could arrive, determined to prevent the body from being snatched, Cody was brought to Lookout Mountain. He was buried and his grave was sealed with 20 tons of concrete. The caravan was met by law enforcement officials who convinced the disheartened townspeople to return home. Since retrieving the body was now impossible, they complied without incident, deeply saddened, believing that Cody would never get his wish.

[Cassie]

But this is the decoy, yes, that was buried.

[Danielle]

So meanwhile, Buffalo Bill's friends quietly told others about the showman's true resting place, although they closely guarded the exact location, except to say that it had an expansive view of the town, just as he would have wanted. Allegedly, the final resting place of William Buffalo Bill Cody is a closely guarded secret with only a few people knowing its exact location to this day. Now, that entire story is a persistent tale and legend and kind of passed around through generation to generation and that's kind of like something people like to talk about, like it really happened. And even places like the Cody, Wyoming website does talk about it at length, but do say explicitly it is a legend. However, there is another side to the story which is very likely, probably most definitely, certainly true. If you don't want to entertain any sort of idea about a fun legend and tale to swap around a campfire. And this is like the true version, which I'll keep really short, but according to the Buffalo Bill Museum and Denver's park system, despite the claims of citizens of Cody, Wyoming, close friends as well as the priest who administered last rites affirmed that Lookout Mountain was indeed his choice. That is where he wanted to be buried. There was no dispute he didn't wish to be buried in Cody, Wyoming. He was like, lookout Mountain is it for me. There is an entire thing about that. He had two wills, them being contested back and forth, et cetera, et cetera. Louisa didn't make this decision out of being not bribed, but offered a ton of money like it was his, her husband's wishes. So basically, long story short, after the ground thawed out and conditions permitted for burial, because remember he died in January, but it's Denver winter so they had to wait. So he was at the mortuary for a long time. He was embalmed twice to keep preserved because they wanted to have an open casket for him during his burial in June.

[Cassie]

Ew.

[Danielle]

So there's also that, like, the whole scandal of, like, they switched his body. It's like, okay if you actually, he.

[Cassie]

Was just embalmed twice and was sitting in a morgue for six months.

[Danielle]

But they did say that the guy, the embalmer was, like, kind of the. He was on his game. Like, he was really, really good at what he did, and he kept him very well preserved. So much so that, like, when I tell you this funeral was attended by thousands of people, over 25,000 people went to this open casket burial six months after this guy died just to see him and pay their final respects. And to this day, it remains the largest funeral in Colorado's history. Wow. Yep. And if you're familiar with this place, this mountain is big. It's not an easy trek. So it makes those numbers even more astounding. I mean, Lookout mountain is over 7,000ft in elevation. It's crazy, but anyways. And it spits. It sits in this really cool spot the mountain overlooks. It has this cool panoramic view of, like, to one side you have the plains, and then on the other, you have the start of the mountains. It's just like, I can see why he wanted to be there. But today, his grave and the Buffalo Bill Museum, which was later constructed there, is part of Denver's mountain park system, and it's a huge tourist attraction. I've been there several times. I take. Take. I've taken my mom there. My mom has a picture next to his grave.

[Cassie]

Oh, fun.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And despite all the back and forth legends and question marks, the plaque on his grave and also Louisa's, who was interred later alongside him, says so. It has their names and their birth and death dates. And then it says in big, bold letters at the bottom, at rest here, by his request.

[Cassie]

Oh, because of the legend.

[Danielle]

Yeah. All right, so finishing up with the Pony Express, back to the original point here. The start of that side quest was saying how Buffalo Bill Cody really propelled the Pony Express into fame. As its popularity grew, more and more people came out of the woodwork to tell their own stories about it. Perhaps none more famous than Julius Miller, better known as Bronco Charlie. I want a cool nickname. Everyone has cool nicknames. Jack Slade, Bronco Charlie.

[Cassie]

Bronco Charlie. What would your nickname be?

[Danielle]

I can't give myself my own nickname.

[Cassie]

That's true.

[Danielle]

So think about it and get back to me. Yeah.

[Cassie]

Well, we'll ask you guys. Listeners, what do you want Danielle's nickname to be?

[Danielle]

Be nice. Be nice. In Charlie's story, which propelled him into nationwide fame, he was living in Sacramento at the age of 11 when he noticed a horse walking down the street.

[Cassie]

Street.

[Danielle]

The horse was wearing an empty, blood stained saddle. Its rider apparently killed in a skirmish with an indigenous group. Charlie took his place, hopped into the saddle and became a pony rider. From there on out. He took the pledge to not drink and not swear. And he got a pistol in return. He met Abe Lincoln, Davy Crockett and Jesse James. He was there when the transcontinental railroad was finished. And maybe you see where this is going, but he was making all of that. Up, up. Bronco Charlie was never a Pony Express rider, but people really, really wanted him to be. The Pony Express had become such a beloved idea of a bygone era that people were eager to learn more about it and the Old West. Historians today quickly find holes in or raise doubts about the tales of the Pony Express, even from reputable sources. Compared to ones like Bronco Charlie's, riders who recorded their memories years later would seem to get dates wrong, mix up names of relay stations or co workers, you know, that sort of thing. Possibly it was just the effects of age or eager ghostwriters trying to fit stories into clean narratives. But since the company's records have all been lost, it's hard to verify either way. And it's also worth noting that the Pony Express was not the only private express service of its day. People that rode for one service may have been eager to share their stories, only to have them miscategorized as a Pony Express tale. So it's kind of all murky as time goes on, especially in the end. The Pony Express was always more successful as an idea than it was as a business, losing money each month it operated but looming large in our memories of the Old West. A route and riders that briefly helped to connect a divided nation. Brave men who rode hundreds of miles across the desert, dug by hand through 20 foot snowdrifts and took arrows to the face just to deliver the mail. Each letter affixed with a stamp that cost three days of wages. Just to say hi to a loved one far away, to share that a baby had been born, that a loved one had fallen ill, or that Abraham Lincoln had become president. The Pony Express has come to embody American values of adventure, heroism and bravery in the face of the unknown. But its story is wrapped around something that today is so simple that we so often take it for granted, the power of connecting with one another. We reflect in awe at the lengths people went to say hi and to share news. And it can remind us of how valuable a call, a text, or a letter can be. It can remind us of how important it is to connect with one another. And last, but certainly not least, the Pony Express is a National Historic Trail. Of course.

[Cassie]

There it is.

[Danielle]

There it is. Not a freebie. The trail loosely follows the National Historic Trail loosely follows the historic route across eight states. So California, Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, Utah and Wyoming. It was designated by Congress in 1992, and today 1800 miles of the original route, which is pretty darn close to its entirety, are now in the hands of various private and public entities. So access to trail segments depends on the permission of whatever entity owns it, whether it be public or private hands.

[Cassie]

Gotcha.

[Danielle]

Some segments are open to the public for hiking and other means of recreation, while others are not. And this means it's not a continuous traditional trail from end to end, but consists of many trail traces, structures, graves, landmarks and markers left on the landscape. The Park Service webpage on the National Historic Trail details various route options and points of interest along the way. If you want to make a road trip out of it or go see parts of it, but. But if you have some free time and a horse, this is for you all you horse people. Each June, members of the National Pony Express association recreate the Pony Express in a commemorative re ride over a 10 day period. Oh wow.

[Cassie]

That's super cool.

[Danielle]

This is so fun. I'm so glad this exists. Okay. Letters are carried in a mochila over the original trail, riding over 1800 miles and eight states. The event is conducted 24 hours a day until the mail is delivered to its destination. This national event is an opportunity for everybody, young and old, to ride the Pony Trail and receive mail via the pony express. Over 750 riders participate and around a thousand letters are mailed every year. Fun fact. While there are no records of women ever participating as riders in the OG Pony Express, over 60% of participants in re rides are women. Riders come from all walks of life, but all are members of the National Pony Express association and they even take a version of the original oath. Isn't that so? Swearing. Don't swear. They also have to wear western attire during their ride and legit. Recreate the Pony Express relay like this is a very true to. To the best of their ability in, you know, 20. Yeah, in the 21st century. Each rider has a GPS on them and it links to a live interactive map so people can watch as the ride progresses. And if you want to be a part of the ride next year, I'll link the info in the description because it does look really, really fun. They make it really easy to participate and it just looks like a a super cool event for like minded people who love horses in the mail in history to get together. Like what more could one want?

[Cassie]

Jackpot.

[Danielle]

Yeah. There's a documentary for you to watch on YouTube called the Spirit of the Pony Express that follows the horses and riders on these re rides and also does like a fun history of the Pony Express and I think it was produced in 2012 or 2011 or so. So it's relatively recent. It's a fun watch and super last but not least for anyone who's passionate about the mail. You don't need to participate as a rider in order to participate in the event because you can apply to have one of them carry a letter for you and send somebody a piece of mail via this rewrite.

[Cassie]

That's really cool.

[Danielle]

There's info on the site and basically there's like an application. Actually the application for 2026 is up right now and there's a letter application form and it just says your letter will be carried on horseback by over 700 riders along the original 1966 mile Pony Express Trail in just 10 days. The 2026 rewrite is June 15 to June 25. From St. Joseph, Missouri to Old Sacramento, California east to west Nebraska will be the state highlighted in the 2026 years commemorative letter. The commemorative letter highlights different historical events, sites and people of the Pony Express. Each envelope is hand stamped with a special US Post Office cancellation at $5, the same price as in 1860. They are the official souvenir of the annual Pony Express rewrite. And personal letters are also available for $10. The deadline for this application is May 15th of 2026 and personal letter application deadline is May 1st, 2026. And you don't need to be living in like the end state of California to have your letter. Like just because they're ending and delivering mail to California, you don't have to live there or in any of the states along the route. On the application it'll ask you where the letter is going. But the whole point is that the Pony Express riders will be carrying it along the original route before it's sent.

[Cassie]

To final and you'll get the stamp and everything.

[Danielle]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Isn't that so fun?

[Cassie]

That is really fun. Did you fill it out?

[Danielle]

No, not yet. I just finished writing this, so I have to do that. But, yeah, that's the story of the Pony Express. I know it was kind of a longer one, but I just thought it was so interesting to learn more about just this tiny chapter that in retrospect was just a blip on the radar of history, but has just really grown larger than life and legend and. And, yeah, I can see why people.

[Cassie]

Have held onto this part of history for a long time.

[Danielle]

Yeah, yeah. People died, got stuck, went through hell just to deliver the mail. And it's tough because it's like, I think it is something that we take for granted now of not just overnight shipping or whatever, but just being in constant contact or the stress. It's like, oh, I sent this text and they haven't responded. It's been an hour. Like. Like people used to have to wait.

[Cassie]

10 days and people had to risk their lives to get that text message across.

[Danielle]

That's right. That's right. That's how text messages were sent originally. So be thankful.

[Cassie]

Actually, it was T9.

[Danielle]

Oh, my God. T9 on my virgin Mobile flip phone. My first phone I ever had.

[Cassie]

Yeah, those are the good old days.

[Danielle]

The Sidekick. Flip it right open.

[Cassie]

Technology at its finest.

[Danielle]

Truly. Yeah. That blackboard key. Better. That BlackBerry keyboard with all the letters.

[Cassie]

Had a BlackBerry. But I was so jealous of everyone who did.

[Danielle]

I didn't. But I definitely, like, it's been cemented in my lore. Like, I feel like I think of Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie, because on the Simple Life, I think they had them.

[Cassie]

They had them.

[Danielle]

That's the epitome of cool.

[Cassie]

Yeah. Well, thank you for telling this story today and I'm glad that I could help inspire this to come to the podcast. Yeah, it was fun.

[Danielle]

It was great. Well, thanks everyone, for listening. This is our last episode of 2025. I know.

[Cassie]

That's so crazy.

[Danielle]

So. What a year.

[Cassie]

What a year.

[Danielle]

I know. Yeah. Thank you everyone for being with us for a another year. And we will. We'll see you next year. See you next week. I did it just for you.

[Cassie]

You said it.

[Danielle]

Wonderful.

[Cassie]

I appreciated that a lot.

[Danielle]

Well, you do something for me, I do something for you, you know?

[Cassie]

Yeah. Okay. See you next year, everybody.

[Danielle]

In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye. Bye. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or app Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark book club live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and X @ National Park After Dark, We know no one's journey is the same. That's why Delta SkyMiles moves with you. From earning miles on reloads for coffee runs, shopping and things you do every day to connecting you to new experiences, a SkyMiles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you you. It's more than travel, it's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides and arrives with you. Because when you have a membership that's as unique as you are, there's no telling where your journey will take you next. Learn [e-mail] SkyMiles this is Julian.

[Julian Edelman]

Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels Sunday mornings I've got my game day ritual, coffee, Lucky socks and now New Morning Uncrustable.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Sandwiches. It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new Uncrustables Bright Eyed Berry or UP and Apple.

[Julian Edelman]

Flavors. Bright Eye Berries got a feisty.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Receiver energy up an apple. Your classic Do it all tight.

[Julian Edelman]

End, soft, pillowy, packed with protein and easy enough for Gronk to grab from the.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Freezer. Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, New Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches are the MVP of.

[Julian Edelman]

Snacks. Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with New Morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of.

[Danielle]

Protein. Having MG can make cooking difficult, but over the years I found some really helpful tools and tips that I'm excited to share. Hi, I'm Alicia. I think cooking should always be fun, creative and of course delicious. These Black Bean Burgers are hearty, full of flavor and MG friendly. You're gonna love them. Check out Alicia's Black Bean Burger Cooking Video and other recipes. Full of tips and and tricks.

[Julian Edelman]

For managing common MG symptoms while cooking only at MG.

[Danielle]

United. Com. Ready, let's.