346: The Cost of Survival: The Cordillera Huayhuash Reserved Zone (Part 1)

Summary

National Park After Dark – Episode 346: The Cost of Survival: The Cordillera Huayhuash Reserved Zone (Part 1)
Release Date: January 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

This riveting episode opens the 2026 season with the harrowing true story of climbers Joe Simpson and Simon Yates. The hosts, Danielle and Cassie, delve into the 1985 Cordillera Huayhuash mountaineering saga—famously told in "Touching the Void." The episode explores themes of survival, trust, and that ethical “line” climbers face when a partner’s life hangs in the balance. Listeners are taken deep into the Andes for a story that raises questions about the cost of survival and the limits of human endurance.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Sacred Rope of Trust

• Host 1 sets the tone with reflections on mountaineering partnerships:

  "In mountaineering, more than almost any other pursuit, survival depends on absolute trust. ... The rope between them becomes a physical symbol of that trust, something sacred, something you protect at all costs." – [00:03]

• The opening raises the unthinkable: what if you have to sever that trust, literally and figuratively, to save yourself?

Story Context & Location

• The episode is the highly requested, much-anticipated first part of a two-part survival story—set not in a national park but in a reserved zone bordering Huascarán National Park, Peru ([03:09]).
• About the Cordillera Huayhuash Reserved Zone:
  • Protected since 2002, aiming for future national park status
  • Features seven peaks over 19,000 ft (Denali is the only higher peak in the U.S.)
  • Rich in biodiversity and ecological value but exceedingly remote
  • The central subject is Siula Grande, a formidable, mostly un-climbed mountain face in 1985 ([06:21])
  • Reaching/escaping the area requires days of travel and there’s no rescue infrastructure

Introduction to Joe Simpson and Simon Yates

• Joe Simpson:
  • Grew up adapting to change; discovered climbing as a refuge and passion
  • Early exclusion from an expedition fueled his determination ([09:24])
• Simon Yates:
  • Biochemistry student, described as easygoing and resilient
  • Witnessed tragedy in the Alps first-hand, understands the risks ([10:45])
• Their partnership is built on complementary personalities and ambitions; both seek challenges beyond the Alps ([13:04]).

The Ascent: Preparation and Progress

• In 1985, after months of prep, they embark on the Siula Grande climb, accompanied at base camp by traveler Richard Hawking (non-climber, essentially a camp-sitter and lifeline in case of emergency) ([13:04]).
• They acclimate for weeks, waiting for a perfect weather window to attempt the “unclimbed” west face.

Climb Details & Challenges

• Climb is alpine style: minimalist gear, snow caves instead of a tent, fully committing to the route.
• The west face climb begins promisingly but quickly proves severe:
  “The climbing required total focus...crevasses that dropped deep, unstable snow, and steep ice with little margin for error.” ([20:00])
• The second day brings frostbite-threatening cold, altitude sickness, and exhaustion. The climbers remark on how dangerous descent is compared to ascent ([25:16]).
• The summit offers only a fleeting sense of accomplishment. They’re acutely aware “the most dangerous part was ahead ... more climbers die on the descent” ([25:16]).

The Descent Turns Dire

• Weather sours rapidly—visibility disappears in a whiteout, and the environment becomes disorienting, "turning the mountain into a blank, disorienting void" ([25:16]).
• First signs of peril: Simon plunges through a cornice but survives thanks to the rope, illustrating their mutual dependence and razor-thin margin for error ([28:00]).
• Survival strategy begins fraying: frostbite creeps in, minor mistakes (like taking gloves off) threaten success and safety ([30:39]).
• Frustration and fatigue build:

  “They argued over root choices and pace, irritation sharpening as exhaustion set in, until conversation eventually faded into space silence.” ([33:00])

Catastrophe Strikes: Joe’s Devastating Fall

• On a steep ice wall, Joe falls. His right leg is shattered in a grotesque zigzag ([35:34]).
• Both instantly realize what this means in such terrain: “a broken leg was not something you recovered from. It was something you died from. Slowly.” ([38:39])

Deciding Whether to Abandon or Rescue

• An emotional, almost wordless survival calculation transpires between the two:

  “They were no longer two climbers moving together towards a shared goal. They were now in a survival scenario...” ([38:39])

• Simon, with immense effort, devises a risky “lowering” system to descend Joe:
  “They tied their two 150-foot ropes together... the knot joining them would not pass through the belay device... The most dangerous moments of the process, as any slip could send both...plunging.” ([38:39])
• Each “lowering” is agony for Joe but gives hope. Simon’s technical skill and calm under pressure shine.

Final Ordeal: The Rope Must Be Cut

• As darkness and another storm close in, Simon, nearly incapacitated by frostbite and exhaustion, must make the impossible decision.
• Joe, dangling over a void where the rope is jammed at a knot and unable to help himself, realizes the only path left:

  “If he could not get off the rope, Simon would eventually lose his grip or be pulled from the collapsing snow seat above, and they would both fall. The only question left was how long would it take for it to happen?” ([52:03])

• After agonizing minutes, Simon cuts the rope—probably saving his own life, believing he’s condemned Joe ([52:03]).

Memorable / Notable Quotes

• “The mountains are indifferent to ethics and intention. ... Everyone has a limit and a line they can't cross. And the mountains have a way of finding it.” – Host 1 [00:03]
• “Statistically, more climbers die on the way down than they do the way up.” – Host 1 [25:16]
• “It was something you died from. Slowly, through exposure, dehydration and exhaustion.” – Host 1 [38:39]
• “[Simon] had just killed his friend. ... He was alone now, with no rope below him and no clear way down.” – Host 1 [52:44]

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Notable Moments & Host Commentary

• The Rope-Cutting Moment:
  Recounted with emotional clarity and empathy for both climbers, the hosts reflect on what it would feel like to make such a decision.

  “I think I’d just be, like, whispering, ‘I am so sorry.’ And maybe he did.” – Host 2 [56:14]

• On Extreme Survival:
  The hosts note Simon’s technical mastery, emotional restraint, and the intense focus that wilderness survival demands.
• Reflective Humor & Humanity:
  The hosts lighten the mood by joking about what photos they'd want used if they ever "go missing," and poke fun at their early confusion between "crevice" and "crevasse," showing humility and growth ([17:03], [57:23]).
• Personal Anecdotes:
  Relating their own hiking experiences to the episode’s themes, making the danger and cold more relatable ([21:16]).

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Timeline & Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |--------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:03–01:46 | Philosophical introduction—mountaineering and trust in the rope | | 03:09–06:21 | Discussion of reserved zone, Siula Grande, and story teaser | | 06:21–13:04 | Geography, ecology, why the area matters, intro to climbers | | 13:04–21:16 | Meeting at Chamonix, expedition build-up, arrival at base camp | | 21:16–25:16 | The ascent: technical challenges, climate, peak, and overview | | 25:16–29:51 | Dangerous descent, whiteout, the rope catches a fall | | 29:51–36:54 | Frostbite, decision fatigue, and the moment everything breaks | | 38:39–43:47 | Aftermath of the broken leg, plans to descend, lowering system | | 43:47–48:01 | Intense lowering ordeal, pain, Simon’s escalating exhaustion | | 48:01–54:41 | Joe suspended over a void, inability to communicate, the rope-cutting decision | | 55:14–59:27 | Hosts' reactions, reflection, and end-of-episode banter |

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Conclusion & Next Episode Teaser

The episode ends on a dramatic cliffhanger:
Joe Simpson lies alone at the bottom of a crevasse, somehow surviving the fall, as Simon, certain his friend is dead, must find his own way down in deteriorating conditions. The hosts tease "Part 2" for next week.

“Little did Simon know as he left his position... that Joe had landed and survived the fall. But with Simon abandoning him and Joe left alone at the bottom of a crevasse is where I leave you all for this week.” – Host 1 [54:41]

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Final Thoughts

Danielle and Cassie guide listeners through an emotionally and physically intense journey, expertly blending technical details, ethical dilemmas, and moments of humor and camaraderie. The episode not only recounts an extraordinary survival story but prompts deep reflection on what we risk for each other in the wild. Part 2 promises to deliver answers and further heart-stopping drama.

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Recommended Listen For:
Anyone interested in wilderness survival, mountaineering, ethical dilemmas in adventure, and the limits of human endurance.

(Skip to [25:16] for ascent/descent drama, [35:34] for the catastrophic fall, [52:03] for the rope-cutting sequence, and [55:14] for host reflections on survival ethics.)

Transcript

[Host 1]

In mountaineering, more than almost any other pursuit, survival depends on absolute trust. From the moment two climbers leave the ground, they are connected by a single rope that binds their bodies, decisions and lives together. That rope can save you from falling to your death, but only if your partner is careful, technically skilled and fully present. Every step requires diligence, strength and discipline, because the consequences of failure are final. Climbers train relentlessly to be the best teammate they can be. They refine their technical ability, obsess over year, rehearse safety systems and memorize procedures, all because they understand that their partner's life is literally in their hands. The rope between them becomes a physical symbol of that trust, something sacred, something you protect at all costs. Because of that, it feels almost unthinkable to imagine a moment when you would intentionally sever it. But the mountains are indifferent to ethics and intention. In alpine environments, even the most skilled mountaineers can find themselves in precarious situations. One where saving a partner means risking your own life, and where holding on just a few seconds longer could ensure that neither of you survives. In those moments, climbers are forced to confront a question most people will never how much would you risk to bring your partner home alive? And where is the line where trying to save someone guarantees that both of you die? Everyone has a limit and a line they can't cross. And the mountains have a way of finding it. Welcome to National Park AFTER Dark.

[Host 2]

Foreign. Hello everyone and welcome to the first main episode of 2026.

[Host 1]

Yeah, happy 2026 everybody. We're starting off strong because we're starting with a survival story.

[Host 3]

And not only is survival story, but.

[Host 1]

We'Re doing a two parter to start off 2026.

[Host 2]

And not only is it a two part survival story, it is a two part survival story that has been recommended and wanted for years.

[Host 3]

Yes, and not only has it been recommended and asked for for years, it's also not in a national park.

[Host 2]

Oh, tada. Okay, Just what everyone wanted. I didn't know.

[Host 3]

Reserved zone.

[Host 1]

Yeah, it's in a reserved zone adjacent to a national park. So technically it is.

[Host 3]

It is a preserved area and it has significant ecological value, but it's just not technically a national park, which we get into. But the story is just too good.

[Host 1]

The story is too good to not dive into.

[Host 3]

And it's a pretty popular story, but.

[Host 1]

I for one did not know all the details. And I think what makes this story so interesting is that it's such a conversation starter of what would you do in this situation?

[Host 3]

And a situation that a Lot of.

[Host 1]

Us will probably never find ourselves in. Unless you are an extreme mountaineer, which.

[Host 3]

I am not, and climbers. But still, it's a great story.

[Host 1]

Well, it sounds intense, so might as well start.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it sounds like an intense way to kick off a new year. So whether regardless of if it's in a national park or not, I think it's fine.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And I think for 2026 we always.

[Host 3]

Try to get the hard hitting stories.

[Host 1]

But for 2026 we're really, we're really.

[Host 3]

Honing in on them. Yeah, we got some hard hitters in line for the next couple of months, I would say. So.

[Host 2]

Yeah, we've kind of like evolved a little bit with how we plan out the show because at first it was just totally random and we never have overlapped and we kind of remark about that from time to time about how funny that is. But now we kind of are more intentional with what stories we tell and when and the cadence of which we do it and what, why we select.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Certain stories and things like that.

[Host 2]

So all of that to say this year, we have some in mind that are going to be pretty cool.

[Host 3]

Pretty cool.

[Host 1]

And I personally, I don't know when winter comes around. I love a good winter survival story.

[Host 3]

I think it just, it hits hard. It hits different when you're physically. Because you're like living listening to it. Yeah, yeah. So they just hit different for me, which is part of why I wanted.

[Host 1]

To tell this one.

[Host 2]

Well, I have one.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Have one.

[Host 2]

You're going to like. It's cold and there is survival currently cold.

[Host 3]

If you see me on YouTube right now, I put on an actual sweater. And right before this I started. We have two. We have two wood stoves. And I started both of them up and I cranked our heat up because I was freezing.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

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[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's obscene.

[Host 3]

I love winter. I love so much.

[Host 2]

You keep saying winter.

[Host 3]

It is probably my favorite season. It gets up there higher and higher each year. But I am cold and I don't enjoy that part as much.

[Host 2]

Well, I'm excited to hear about whatever you have in store for us. I know very. I'm gonna say right off the bat, for as much as this story has been requested, I know very, very little about it.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I know it's a super popular one. Like not only in the outdoor community, but I feel like in general, I think a lot of people know of this story.

[Host 1]

Yeah. So we're going to be telling the.

[Host 3]

Survival story of Joe Simpson and Simon Yates.

[Host 1]

And if you. If their names do not sound familiar, the book and the movie might.

[Host 3]

It's called Touching the Void. Both of them have that title.

[Host 1]

And if you haven't, if you still.

[Host 3]

Still haven't heard of it, we're gonna dive into it today. But before we get fully into the story, we'll get into the location that is not a national park, but maybe.

[Host 1]

Should be or maybe will be one day. I don't know. So this story takes place in a place that borders Washcaron National Park. We are headed to Cordillera Huayhuash Reserve zone in Peru, a high mountain range in the Andes that has been protected as a reserve natural area since 2002. In Peru, designated as a reserve zone is often considered the first step towards national park status, a way of preserving ecosystems and landscapes that are both fragile and extraordinary. So just because it's not a national park yet does not mean that there aren't pushes for it to one day become one. And it does border one. This area was protected with the goal of conserving its high mountain ecosystems and its exceptional scenery. And it's easy to understand why. The range is made up of massive, jagged, snow covered peaks that rise sharply from glacial valleys. Seven of those peaks exceed 19,000ft, and for comparison, the entire United States has only one mountain taller, which is Denali. Of course, in Denali national park, the region is also known for its biodiversity. The name Washcaron comes from Quechua, the indigenous language of the Andes, and roughly translates to weasel, a nod to the wildlife found throughout this region. More than a thousand plant species grow here, along with dozens of bird species and a range of mammals. Adapted to extreme altitude. The area's glaciers and lakes provide water to communities far beyond the mountains themselves. This region is remote, even by Andean standards. The nearest village is roughly 28 miles away, or 45 kilometers. And reaching Lima requires several days by foot, mule and vehicle through remote mountain terrain. So you can't just drive here. It is very, very, very remote. There are no easy access roads, there's no rescue infrastructure and no quick way out if something goes wrong when you're recreating here. When climbers enter this range, they do so knowing that they are largely on their own. Among these peaks stands Sioula Grande, a mountain rising to roughly 21,000ft. At the time of our story, it had been climbed before, but one side of it remained completely unconquered. Its west face, a steep 4,500 foot wall of ice and snow, had deterred mountaineers in the past. But in 1985, two British climbers, Joe Simpson and Simon Yates, believed they could be the first to climb it. And going into who they were. Joe Simpson was born in 1960 in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where his father was stationed with the British Army. Because of his father's career, Joe grew up moving frequently, spending parts of his childhood in different countries before being sent to boarding school in the United Kingdom. He was one of five siblings and learned early how to adapt to unf familiar environments. Joe discovered climbing in his early teens. Initially, it was a way to avoid getting pummeled in school. Rugby. He's like, I don't wanna play rugby. Let me climb.

[Host 3]

So he did that.

[Host 1]

But quickly it became something much more. He realized he had a natural aptitude for it and felt an immediate connection to the sport. His passion intensified after his school organized a mountaineering expedition that he was actually excluded from. Despite being one of the strongest climbers, the group went on to make a first ascent of a mountain in Pakistan. And Joe was left behind. And at first, this rejection devastated him. He's like, I could have been there. I could have been the first to do this too. Why wasn't I included? But that quickly turned into motivation. He later reflected that if others could not see that he was a natural mountaineer, he would prove it on his own. From that point on, he devoted himself fully to climbing, spending his free time training and his summers in the Alps steadily building experience and confidence. Simon Yates was born in 1963 and Leicestershire, England. He studied biochemistry at Sheffield University. But like many climbers of that era, he was drawn to a nomadic life in the mountains. Compared to Joe, Simon came across as more easygoing and light hearted. Joe admired this about him, noting that Simon seemed to laugh at misfortune as readily as he did success.

[Host 2]

So he has a good attitude?

[Host 1]

Yeah, he's easygoing. He's like, yeah, this is great.

[Host 3]

No, no stress kind of guy.

[Host 1]

Simon had also witnessed firsthand how unforgiving the mountains could be. In the French Alps, he had seen two Japanese climbers roped together fall to their deaths. The experience left a lasting impression, reinforcing the reality that even experienced climbers could be lost in an instant.

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[Host 2]

Colder days.

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[Host 2]

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[Host 2]

It's literally designed to keep me warm.

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[Host 1]

Joe and Simon met in 1984 while climbing in Chamonix, France. They were part of a larger group and began climbing together when the opportunity arose. They were not exclusive partners, instead climbing with whoever happened to be around, but they quickly recognized that their skills and ambitions aligned. Both were at a point in their climbing careers where they wanted to move beyond the Alps and test themselves in more remote and demanding ranges. So for them, the Andes felt like the next logical step. Taller and larger than the European Alps, but not yet at the extreme altitudes of the Himalayas, the mountains of Peru offered a challenging proving ground. Over the winter of 1984 into 1985, Joe and Simon worked to save enough money to fund an expedition. In early 1985, they traveled to Peru and made their way into the Cordillera Huayhash. Just reaching the range was an undertaking. The journey involved long bus rides into remote valleys, followed by days of walking to establish a base camp at approximately 15,000ft. And of course, like I mentioned, earlier, the nearest village was roughly 28 miles away at Base Camp. The scale of the mountains became fully apparent, and it was astonishingly beautiful. Jagged, glaciated peaks surrounded the camp, and Aquamarine Lake shimmered in the distance, fed by the surrounding glaciers. Joe recorded his impressions in his diary, writing that the place felt menacingly remote and exhilarating at the same time. There were no crowds, no helicopters, and notably no possibility of rescue. Just them in the mountains. However, they were not entirely alone. At a rundown hotel in Lima, Joe and Simon had met a traveler named Richard Hawking. Richard was not a climber and had little experience in the mountains, but he was well traveled and full of stories from his journeys through South America and through Africa. They never invited him to join their expedition, but he was intrigued by their plan, and Richard followed them into the mountains to see all of these beautiful mountains that they had been raving about. Richard agreed to stay at Base Camp while Joe and Simon attempted to climb, and he would watch over their gear. His presence provided some companionship and a small measure of reassurance. But once Joe and Simon left camp, they would be entirely on their own. But it's also like if they don't come back, they have this guy hanging out at Base Camp that can alert someone maybe sooner. And of course, they're going to bring a lot more supplies to Base Camp than they're going to bring to actually get to the summit of this mountain. They spent roughly two weeks acclimating to the altitude, attempting smaller climbs and exploring potential routes. Storms repeatedly forced them to turn back before reaching any summits, but they accepted this as part of the process rather than a warning. With ample food at Base Camp and time on their side, they waited for a stable window of weather, confident that when the moment came, they they would be ready. That moment arrived in early June. On June 4, 1985, Joe Simpson and Simon Yates left Base Camp with packs heavy with equipment and supplies. They climbed in alpine style, leaving their main tent at Base Camp and committing to the face with only sleeping bags and minimal gear. Each night depended on digging snow caves into the slope, a choice that saved weight but made retreat difficult. Richard Hawking walked with them for part of the approach, accompanying them across eastern terrain towards the glacier that marked the beginning of the climb. Before turning back, he took photographs of the two men and joked that if they failed to return, he could sell the images as obituary photos.

[Host 2]

Well, okay, I mean, we do that all the time. Dark humor we use all the time. And yeah, we joke of especially on Our trips and stuff. Like, if I die, make it a good episode or something like that, you know?

[Host 3]

Like, this would be a great photo if I go missing.

[Host 2]

Oh, what would be my photo?

[Host 3]

What would you pick if you went missing?

[Host 2]

I don't know.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I don't know.

[Host 3]

I want a thirst trap photo of me personally.

[Host 2]

You have to give it to me so I can. I can, you know.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Distribute it or Al. Whoever your emergency contact is.

[Host 3]

I'll give it to both of you.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Because if you and Al go missing, you need a backup.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Then I need a backup.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And I feel like if you were to be in a situation where you would go missing, you'd be with Al.

[Host 3]

Really, I feel like I could be with you too. We do a lot of traveling.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I was thinking more of. I'll put you more in situations that would be like.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I'm not.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I get lost a lot. Not intentionally.

[Host 1]

It's like if Danielle and I go.

[Host 3]

Missing together, it's not malicious. We just got lost.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

We're just girls.

[Host 2]

We're just girls in the world.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Trying to find our way out there.

[Host 2]

I'll think about. I don't know, we had. I. Maybe I think mine. You know what my answer is? Which. And it hasn't even happened yet, but I know I'll use it. So last year, for my birthday. Well, now 2024. Because now technically it's 2026. We're recording in 2025, but I'm referring to 2024, so it's very confusing.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

But Cassie, for my birthday in 2024, got me a gift certificate to have a tin type photo taken at a studio in Massachusetts. And my appointment is on December 30th of this year, 2025.

[Host 3]

I really very soon. Has already happened, if you're listening.

[Host 2]

Right. But it's also very late from when.

[Host 3]

You gave it to me.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Regardless, I just know I'll love that picture. It'll look old timey and I expect myself to be very stoic and scary looking. And that's what I.

[Host 3]

It's an iconic missing person's photo.

[Host 2]

It's like, does she want to be found? We're not sure.

[Host 3]

Like, she looks like she intentionally went missing.

[Host 2]

Yes. So that will be. That's my answer. And it doesn't even exist yet. I'll give it to you. Give you. Okay.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 3]

I'll keep that in mind.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Good one.

[Host 3]

It's a good one for sure.

[Host 2]

Let the record show. Thirst trap. Thirst trap. And like a mug shot.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Victorian mug shot.

[Host 1]

Love it.

[Host 2]

And that's. That's our dynamic.

[Host 3]

Truly a reflection of us.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

In a. Missing. In a missing person's poster. Okay, so he makes this joke that he'll use these photos to sell us his obituary, their obituary photos, and then they take off.

[Host 1]

The approach alone was pretty demanding. They crossed miles of glacial terrain before reaching the foot of the west face. Once on the ice, they roped up, put on crampons, and began the long upward push. From the start, the climbing required total focus. They had to navigate crevasses that dropped deep into the mountain, unstable snow, and steep ice that offered little margin for error. As they ascended, they settled into a rhythm. Swing the axe, kick the crampons, test the placement, move upward. The repetition was exhausting, but necessary, with each movement deliberate and controlled. By the end of the first day, they had made solid progress, and Joe felt increasingly confident. Despite the altitude, both men felt strong and even matched. The second day was far more difficult. Much of the climbing involved steep ice required them to drive their axes and crampons into hard surfaces while maintaining balance and conserving energy. As they climbed higher, the air thinned dramatically. Joe's heart pounded even when he moved slowly, and every breath burned his lungs. Being on the west face in the Southern hemisphere meant they remained in shade for most of the day. And the cold intensified. I'm just thinking of us on our.

[Host 3]

Hawaii trip when we drove, not climbed.

[Host 1]

To the very top of Hawaii Volcanoes.

[Host 3]

National park, and we were freezing and it was hard to breathe.

[Host 2]

Yep.

[Host 3]

And just going. Just going to the bathroom was hard. Just getting to the bathroom.

[Host 2]

We joked, you know, we've never once been warm on any of our trips, and we weren't going to start in Hawaii.

[Host 3]

No, not there.

[Host 2]

Couldn't be there. I. Yeah. And I even was prepared. You know, I brought my jackets, and I knew we were doing that activity.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But even still, it was a shock.

[Host 1]

It's such a stark difference, though, because at the bottom, it's humid, it's 85 degrees, you're in shorts and a tank top, and you're sweating and you're at.

[Host 3]

Sea level, and then Suddenly you are 13,000 plus feet. It's like 10 degrees with wind chill.

[Host 2]

Oh, God.

[Host 3]

I was like, okay, you can't see anything.

[Host 2]

Okay, let's go.

[Host 3]

I'm having a great time. It was really cool to be up there and. Yeah, man.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

I'm just picturing them and they're swinging axes and kicking crampons and can't breathe and huffing. It And I'm just like at the top of the mountain with a van and cold. I'm like, I'm cold. I'm gonna sit in the van.

[Host 2]

We sat in the van. We literally did sit in the van.

[Host 3]

We're like waiting for the sun to come out. We were, all of us, our whole group was like, we're really cold. Let's just sit in the van and wait for the come out with.

[Host 2]

Our driver was like, are you sure you guys just flew here from all.

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[Host 3]

Degrees take us back to the beach.

[Host 2]

Oh, I was gonna ask something. So would this be categorized as. And I could easily look this up, but type two or type three fun?

[Host 3]

I'm gonna guess this is type three fun.

[Host 2]

I think so too. I think.

[Host 3]

I'm not even sure if this was fun at all.

[Host 2]

Yep. Yeah.

[Host 3]

When we get into it, maybe, maybe at this point it's type three fun. But I, I think it makes a dramatic turn to. No fun was had okay at all.

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[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

So they're climbing.

[Host 3]

Progression is pretty slow. The wind picked up and there was.

[Host 1]

Powdery snow that was clinging to their clothes and their face and it was just freezing on them. So eventually they had this big layer of ice also while they're trekking through this. And by late evening, they were forced to keep climbing in the dark, searching for a safe place to stop. They did not find one until around 10 o' clock that night, and this was after hours of climbing. By then the temperature had dropped sharply and both men were exhausted. They dug a snow cave for the night, melted snow for water and ate their final frozen, freeze dried meal. Their gas supply was nearly gone, but they believed it would be enough to melt snow once more in the morning. And then from there they expected to reach the summit and descend all the way back to base camp, where food, food, fuel and shelter waited for them. Confident in the plan, they turned off their headlamps and slept. When they woke the following morning, they could finally see the terrain they had been climbing in the darkness. To them, it was an Andean nightmare. The snow was soft and unstable, sculpted into deep grooves. Fragile overhangs and wind formed lips of snow that could collapse without warning and offered no reliable footing. They had heard of these dangerous conditions in the Andes, but neither had ever encountered them firsthand. It was their third day now, and that day brought some of the most dangerous climbing of their lives. The powdery snow made retreat impossible. They were forced to continue upward through narrow channels where a wrong route choice could trap them beneath impassable walls. Each decision carried the risk of committing them to a dead end with no way down. Despite the hazards, their route choices held. By early afternoon, they reached the top of West Face. They dropped their packs and rested briefly in the sunlight before walking the final distance to the Summit. At nearly 21,000ft, the view was vast and stunning, the surrounding peaks stretching away in every direction. They took photographs and ate chocolate, documenting their success. But Jo felt a sense of anti climax. The achievement itself was fleeting. They got to the top. It was amazing. It was incredible. They were the first to do it, but he realized that the most dangerous part was ahead of them because historically speaking, the descent is usually the most dangerous because at that point you're the most tired, you're fatigued. Yeah. Yep, you just did this huge thing. And statistically more climbers die on the way down than they do the way up. So they kind of reached a halfway point and they had already Been through so much to get there. It was like, oh, we still have this, and then some to get down. As they prepared to leave the summit, they noticed clouds building rapidly to the east, and they saw that a storm was moving in. The glacier they planned to descend would soon be obscured by snow and clouds. If they were going to make it down safely, they needed to move very quickly. As Simon began leading them down from the summit, the weather deteriorated far more quickly than either of them had anticipated. Dissipated snow started falling steadily, driven by a rising wind that rapidly stripped the landscape of depth and contrast. Within an hour, visibility collapsed into a complete whiteout, erasing the line between sky and ground and turning the mountain into a blank, disorienting void. They stayed roped together and moved with extreme caution, each man holding the rope in his gloved hand, preparing to arrest a fall if one of them lost their footing. Progress was agonizingly slow. Every step required probing the snow ahead, testing whether it support their weight or give way beneath them. In places, the ridge narrowed sharply, with steep drop offs on either side disappearing into the whiteness. At one point, Simon moved ahead to scout the route, while Jo waited behind. Suddenly, the rope ripped violently through Joe's hands before snapping taut the unmistakable signal that Simon had fallen. Joe shouted into the wind, his voice immediately swallowed by the storm, and waited in mounting dread, unsure whether the rope had held or whether he was now tethered to nothing at all. Several long minutes passed before he heard Simon yelling back and followed the sound. Joe climbed carefully toward him until he found his partner shaken but alive. Simon explained that he had stepped forward and dropped straight through a cornice. Unclear what had happened until the rope stopped his fall.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God.

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Like so.

[Host 1]

They can't see anything. Even to take a one step in front of you, and you have to test it to see if you're on stable ground. You can't see where there's any drop offs. Simon just fell off the side of a mountain.

[Host 2]

I didn't know until he stopped falling. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 3]

It's just horrid, horrible, horrible condition.

[Host 1]

Hours passed with little progress. Night closed in and repeated attempts to dig a snow cave were thwarted by poor snow conditions and failing equipment. Simon's headlamp flickered intermittently, and when he removed his gloves to try to fix it, the cold quickly numbed his fingers. By morning, several of them would show clear signs of frostbite. That was the one thing in my avalanche class I remember learning, because I.

[Host 3]

This is something that I really need.

[Host 1]

To work on if I ever find myself In a situation like this is. I feel like I'm totally useless when.

[Host 3]

I have gloves on.

[Host 1]

So I like to take them off to do small things. But really I need to get the, like the slip glove to put underneath my gloves or practice doing things with gloves. Because that was one thing that was.

[Host 3]

Mentioned in my avalanche class when I was trying to do something.

[Host 1]

They were like, keep your gloves on because if you're in a situation like this and you un glove and now your hand is unusable because you're in these frigid conditions, you just. You might have just made a fatal mistake.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I'm like, oh, okay, okay. I look better.

[Host 3]

I'm like useless with gloves on. I like, truly, truly am. So I. I need to, well, just adjust.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Having like a little slip under there.

[Host 1]

Like, small things to do, though. Like, same thing he it pressing a button on a headlamp when you have gloves on, you can't feel the button.

[Host 3]

If it's not pressing. It's like, am I doing it? And, um, so for him, that was like. That was a moment where it's like.

[Host 1]

I shouldn't have done that. Yeah. So going back to the story, they hunker down for the night. He's showing signs of frostbite already. It's very cold. But eventually they do find shelter, offering far less protection from the wind and cold than they would have liked. But they really had no other option. They melted snow for water, using nearly all their remaining gas, and rationed what little food they had left, which was chocolate, dried fruit, and a steam. Single packet of Juicy Fruit.

[Host 3]

Oh, no.

[Host 2]

What's juice? I'm like, Juicy Fruit is gum.

[Host 3]

Interesting. A single packet of fruit juice. Not Juicy Fruit.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 3]

I haven't even thought of Juicy Fruit in so long. Decades.

[Host 2]

I haven't seen it on the shelves. Have.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Does it even still exist?

[Host 2]

Probably it's gottu, because bubble tape. Is that what it's called? Oh, it still exists.

[Host 3]

Bubble tape.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I do remember it. While Joe believed that they had enough fuel remaining to make hot drinks in the morning, and he assumed that by the following afternoon, they would be back at base camp. Morning arrived with clearer skies but no real relief. They moved slowly and deliberately. Aware that even a minor slip could quickly escalate into something catastrophic. Joe began climbing farther ahead of Simon, gradually increasing the distance between them. At one point, Joe stepped into a hidden crevasse and dropped suddenly before managing to halt himself. He clawed his way back onto solid ground, shaken but uninjured, while Simon watched from behind the incident only added to their growing frustration. They argued over root choices and pace, irritation sharpening as exhaustion set in, until conversation eventually faded into space silence. By late morning, the grim reality of their situation became impossible to ignore. After nearly a full day of effort, they had descended only about a thousand feet. The sun burned against their back, a stark contrast to the storm that they endured the night before. While powdery snow continued to mask hazards everywhere, Joe continued moving ahead, eventually putting roughly 150ft between himself and Simon. At this point, I'm picturing they're just so mad, so frustrated before they're. They're climbing and hiking in unison, and they're just trying to get down. And now they're like, just stay away from me.

[Host 3]

I need to.

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Their tensions are high.

[Host 1]

Tensions are high. They're still attached by rope. There's still that safety there.

[Host 3]

But they're kind of getting away from each other.

[Host 1]

At this point, they had traveled far enough along the ridge that it was time to descend directly. Jo welcomed the change, hoping that the slope below would finally offer more solid footing. Instead, he found himself standing above a steep ice wall. He searched briefly for an alternate route, but saw none. And so he carefully planted his axes and began lowering himself down. He kicked his crampons into the ice, testing each placement before shifting his weight. He drove one ax deep into the wall and held it firmly, then swung his hammer to set a second placement. The sound it made was wrong. He pulled the tool free and tried again, forcing it into what appeared to be solid ice. Satisfied, he removed the other ax and prepared to transfer his weight. Then there was a sharp cracking noise, and the ice failed. Joe was suddenly airborne. He slammed into the slope below with both legs locked, the impact exploding through his body, and he began sliding uncontrollably, accelerating towards a steep drop. He screamed as he lost control until the rope snapped tight and. And wretched him into a violent stop. Pain tore through his thigh and knee. When he tried to move, there was a sickening grinding of the bone against bone. He looked down and saw his right leg twisted into an unnatural zigzag.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's a shape you never want to see a body part in for sure.

[Host 1]

Especially a leg.

[Host 3]

Yeah, your knees just don't really do anything. You know, you got the bend and that's.

[Host 2]

It bends one way and one way only.

[Host 1]

This bag is not that way, right?

[Host 2]

Did you say how far the. Like, what is the distance between them in this row? I'm just trying to imagine the length of this rope, like how far apart they are.

[Host 1]

Do you know they were about like 150ft apart from each other.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

It's a long rope. Yeah. Tears filled his eyes, not only from pain, but the immediate understanding of what this meant. Simon appeared above him, having followed the rope once it went slack and took in the scene quickly. The shattered leg, their position high on the mountain, and the fact that Joe could no longer protect either himself or his partner from a fall. And nearly the entire descent still lay ahead. They've only made it a couple thousand feet at this point. And Remember, it's a 21,000. They're over. They're above 21,000ft. They still have to get all the way there. They're still on the face of the mountain. And now he has a shattered leg.

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[Host 2]

Actually went to a cat cafe on.

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[Host 2]

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[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

For a moment after the fall, neither of them spoke. Joe stood on his left leg, shaking, staring at the twisted shape of his right knee as nausea rose in his throat, his mind racing ahead to the inevitable conclusion that settled over him with frightening clarity. At this altitude, on this terrain, a broken leg was not something you recovered from. It was something you died from. Slowly, through exposure, dehydration, and exhaustion, Simon descended carefully to Joe's position, following the rope once attention eased, and when he reached him, he took in the scene with a quick practice assessment. The leg was obviously shattered, the knee grotesquely swollen and misshapen, and of course they still had miles and miles of terrain between them and and any possibility of help. Joe considered lying for a brief moment. He thought about telling Simon that it was not that bad, that maybe it was just a sprain or something he could walk off, but the grinding sensation when he shifted his weight made that impossible. He told Simon the truth. He had fallen and his leg was very clearly broken. Joe watched Simon's face change as he processed what he was seeing. There was a flicker of pity there and something else Joe recognized immediately, a kind of emotional distancing, the look people give when they believe an outcome is inevitable. It terrified him. He knew Simon was thinking the same thing. He was thinking that there was no realistic way to get an injured man down from this mountain without putting both of their lives at risk. Simon said very little. He gave Joe a couple of painkillers and began working through the problem in silence. They were no longer two climbers moving together towards a shared goal. They were now in a survival scenario where every decision carried the potential to end both of their lives. Joe leaned heavily on his ice ax as they began moving again, Simon breaking trail while Joe limped behind, trying to suppress cries of pain each time his knee twisted or caught in the snow. Neither of them spoke about the obvious truth hanging between them, that the fastest and safest way for Simon to survive would be to leave Joe behind. Joe was acutely aware of his own vulnerability and found himself afraid to ask for help, as if speaking might push Simon towards the decision that he feared most. After more than two hours of painfully slow progress, Simon finally asked Joe how he was holding up. Joe told him he felt slightly better, though the words rang hollow even as he said them. With effort, he acknowledged what they both knew, admitting that he could not see how he would make it down the mountain on his own. Simon did not respond directly, but instead focused on the terrain ahead, where the slope steepened and the only viable route down involved a series of rappels. They stopped and discussed a plan. Simon would dig a bucket seat into the snow, carving out a crude but functional anchor that he could brace himself in while lowering Joe down the mountain. Once Joe was lowered as far as the rope allowed, Simon would then climb down to meet him, and they would repeat the process. It was an improvised solution, risky and exhausting, but it was the only option that they could think of that offered any chance of survival for Joe in particular, but was the safest option for also Simon to try and help him out as well. They tied their two 150 foot ropes together to create a longer line, knowing that the knot joining them would not pass through the belay device. This meant that halfway through each lowering, Joe would have to take his weight on his good leg while Simon unclipped the rope, reset the device, and clip it back in. It was one of the most dangerous moments of the entire process, as any slip during the transfer could send both of them plunging down the mountain. When they began the first lowering, Joe tried instinctively to keep his feet from touching the snow, an unnatural position that left him swinging awkwardly as Simon controlled the descent from above. Whenever his crampons caught or his injured leg twisted unexpectedly, white hot pain shot through his body and he struggled to keep from screaming. By the time he reached the end of the first rope, his entire body was trembling. As Simon adjusted the rope at the knot, Joe balanced precariously on his left leg, digging a seat for Simon to use when he came down. Despite the pain, a surge of hope ran through him. In a short span of time, he had been lowered far more quickly than he ever could have descended on foot. For the first time since the fall, it felt possible, however remote, that he might actually make it off the mountain alive. They repeated the process again and again, descending steadily despite the deteriorating weather around them. Clouds rolled in, the wind strengthened, and the temperature dropped, but they pressed on, aware that stopping meant exposure without food or a reliable way to make water, they were running on borrowed time. As darkness approached, Simon increased the pace of the lowerings, trying to get them down as quickly as possible. The faster Joe moved, the more violently his injured knee was jarred against the slope, and several times it twisted backwards with a sickening crunch that made him sob in pain.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I'm surprised he hasn't passed out.

[Host 1]

Me too. I feel like at this point he's running on pure adrenaline.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

It's like, this is my life every time. I feel like there's just so many shots of pain and adrenaline and like, this is your only way of survival. Also trying to keep Simon in mind too. You know, he's digging these bucket seats for him so he can climb down, sit, re. Anchor himself, re repel.

[Host 3]

You know, like, Simon's doing a lot.

[Host 2]

The most. The most.

[Host 1]

Yeah. He just took on a huge job. And I think also everything that Simon's doing, it just paints a picture of how good of a climber he truly is as well. To have showcase techniques and.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it shows cases. His ability as a climber and to work under immense pressure and decision making and all that.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And it seems like he wasn't even saying too much either.

[Host 3]

He's just like, okay, let's.

[Host 1]

This is the plan. Let's do it.

[Host 3]

And was just kind of going through.

[Host 1]

The motions and trying to get him out.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Where he easily could have been, like, wait here, I'll come back for rescue. Even though that I say that easily.

[Host 3]

He could have done that, but that.

[Host 1]

Would have been a death sentence, Right? Essentially. So he was. It sounds like he was doing his best. So his leg twists and makes this horrible crunching sound and he is sobbing in pain. And he shouts up to Simon to slow down. But his words were torn away by the wind. It was so windy that Simon couldn't hear anything that he was saying or hear him crying. Simon, for his part, had begun to shut out Joe's cries entirely. And it wasn't out of cruelty, it was just out of necessity. He's like, I know you're in pain, but we gotta go. It was a survival technique. So he kind of just. Even if he did hear him crying, he wasn't really paying much attention to it. His fingers were going numb from the cold as he held the rope. And he knew that if he slowed down too much, they might both be caught on the face overnight. With no shelter and no water, speed, however brutal it was, felt like their only chance because they still have to find shelter. They're on this ice face. It's like, we can't stay here for the night.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

It's.

[Host 3]

It's dark.

[Host 1]

Weather is getting worse. We gotta go. Joe dug another seat in the snow as Simon prepared for what they both believed would be one of the final descents. That was when everything went wrong.

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[Host 1]

As Simon began lowering Joe once more, Joe sensed immediately that something was wrong. Instead of being eased down the slope in a controlled descent, he began to slide, his body accelerating as the angle beneath him steepened and the snow hardened into sleep slick ice. He tried instinctively to slow himself, dragging an axe and then a crampon, but neither found their spot, and when he shouted up to Simon to stop, the wind tore the sound away before it could reach him. Within moments, the ground disappeared beneath his feet altogether and his body swung outward into the empty space before his rope caught and he was lowered over an overhang. So at this point his rope just caught right after he goes over this big snow Lip overhang. And now he's just hanging there while snow pours over him from this overhang. And he's slowly spinning on this rope and just hanging midair.

[Host 2]

This is, like, reminiscent of your lightning strike episode.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah, a little bit.

[Host 2]

Just that position of just hanging. And I think, wasn't that guy deceased that you were talking about? Or maybe he lived later. I don't remember. It's like, years ago.

[Host 1]

Well, there was the upside down.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

That's what I'm thinking of.

[Host 1]

He lived.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

He was alive. Yeah. So he's just hanging here. And the ice face is. It feels like it's almost close enough to touch, but he just can't reach it. So he also can't re anchor himself either.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Below him, the crevasse opened into darkness, its depth impossible to judge. And when Simon continued lowering him, unaware of what happened, Joe descended further until he reached the knot tying the two ropes together. The rope jerked three times, the signal Simon used for Joe to take his weight off the line so the belay device could be reset. And Joe felt a surge of disbelief and panic as he realized there was nowhere for him to stand. No ledge, no slope, nothing but open air. So Simon doesn't even realize yet. He's like, all right, reset. You're good. Because he's over this overhang, which I imagine for Simon kind of like made the rope tight there and took the brunt of that fall. So he didn't feel the pull, the tug from where he was because this overhang kind of caught on it, and now he's just hanging there, and Simon's like, all right, do your thing. Like, we're almost there, and he's just hanging midair with nowhere to go and.

[Host 2]

No way to communicate his predicament.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And obviously he can't undo the rope.

[Host 2]

Right? Right.

[Host 3]

Because he's hanging in the middle of the air.

[Host 1]

From above, Simon could feel Joe's weight still pulling steadily at his harness and assumed that his partner was struggling to regain balance or carve a stance. So he waited, giving him time to sort it out. Hanging in the cold, Joe understood that there was only one option left to him.

[Host 2]

He.

[Host 1]

He would have to climb back up the rope. Under normal circumstances, it would have been a simple maneuver using the loops that they have. A lot of ropes have those little loops that you can just grab onto, and each spot has to hoist yourself up to hoist yourself up, and you can put your feet in them and stuff. And this was something he had done countless times, but his hands were now numb. And of course, he only has the one leg, and he's tired. He's fatigued. So he fumbled for the first loop and fought to attach it to the rope, his fingers refusing to work and minutes passing as he forced the knot into place with a combination of effort, frustration, and his teeth when his grip failed him. When he reached for the second loop, his finger slipped, and he watched helplessly as it dropped away, tumbling silently into the blackness below and vanishing from sight.

[Host 2]

Wait. What did he drop?

[Host 1]

He dropped. So he's attaching these loops, okay, that he can climb up. And he just dropped one of them.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

In that instance, he knew that his last chance of climbing back up had disappeared with it. He slumped on the rope, exhausted, shaking and acutely aware of what this meant for both of them. If he could knock it off the rope, Simon would eventually lose his grip or be pulled from the collapsing snow seat above, and they would both fall. The only question left was how long would it take for it to happen? Joe screamed into the wind, cursing the mountain, his shattered leg, and the absurd cruelty of the timing. But there was nothing more that he could do. He hung there, suspended between ice and darkness, waiting above him. Simon sat in the bucket seat he had carved into the slope, feeling the full weight of Joe's body dragging relentlessly at his waist as the snow beneath him slowly, slowly compacted and crumbled. His hands were numb, his legs trembling with exhaustion, and communication was impossible. He waited, trying again and again to think of a way to pass the knot through the belay device. But every option collapsed under the reality of the terrain and his fault and his failing strength. Minutes stretched on, then, longer still, and as his feet began to slip and the pull of his harness grew more insistent, the realization settled over him with brutal clarity that he could not hold Joe indefinitely, and he could also not haul him back up if he stayed tied to him. It was clear now that they were both going to die. He reached into his pack, found the knife, and struggled to open it with stiff fingers, the metal briefly sticking to his lips as he freed the blade. He placed it against the rope and. And applied pressure, and the line parted instantly, the sudden release sending him sprawling back into the snow as the weight vanished from his harness. He lay there for a moment, stunned, staring at the severed end of the rope, knowing that he had almost certainly just killed his climbing partner below. Joe felt the rope snap free and for a fraction of a second experienced nothing at all before gravity reclaimed him and he dropped into the void beneath the overhang. Simon Listened straining for any sound carried back up the face. Any shout, any impact, any sound at all. But nothing came. There was no movement, no voice. And in his mind, there was only one conclusion. He had just killed his friend. As the silence stretched on, Simon became aware of everything else all at once. The mountain beneath his feet. The cold creeping deeper into his numb hands and the weakness settling into his legs. He was still high on the face. Night was closing in around him. He was alone now, with no rope below him and no clear way down. And little did Simon know as he left his position to find an alternative way down and left Joe behind, that Joe had landed and survived the fall. But with Simon abandoning him and Joe left alone at the bottom of a crevasse is where I leave you all for this week. And we will pick up next Monday to find out what happens to the two of them.

[Host 2]

Wow. Well, I'm on the edge of my seat. That is intense. That is so intense. Wow. Yeah, I can see why this is so highly requested because it doesn't get more serious than making a life or death decision for not only yourself, but for a friend or family member or someone you're with, you know, so.

[Host 1]

Yeah, but when you're sitting there and you're losing your footing, you're on a, you're on ice face and it's like we're either both going down or one of us is going down.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

It's just the no.

[Host 2]

And I know there's no communication possible. It's just the decision of like, well, this has to be done and just kind of the assumption that, or hope that this other person would understand that decision because they're very well aware that it's the only one to be made. Yeah, like I just, I, I think I would at least I'm not trying to be in his head or anything, but in my mind I envision myself if I'm in his spot, just being like whispering like, I am so sorry. And maybe he did, maybe he did.

[Host 1]

And maybe he did.

[Host 2]

You know, of just like God, I please forgive me.

[Host 1]

And I think in that moment too, it was almost a survival moment where he, it was almost an out of body experience where his mind was like, the only way you're going to survive.

[Host 3]

Is if you get rid of this.

[Host 1]

Rope attached to you. So I feel like it was almost this out of body experience where he grabs the knife, he unsheathes it and he just holds it again. And the rope was so taut that it just snapped under the pressure of a knife. Like it's not like he had to saw it or anything like that. It was just like he held it.

[Host 3]

Up, pushed against it, and it just.

[Host 1]

And.

[Host 2]

Wow. Well, unlike the rest of you suckers, I can hear part two very soon.

[Host 1]

Because we're recording it now.

[Host 2]

Now. Cool. Okay.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I do.

[Host 2]

Just to end on, like, a. Just something. I couldn't help but think about it when you're explaining this story, because it has. Clearly, we're set in the space of the land of crevasses. Do you remember a time not so long ago.

[Host 3]

I sure do.

[Host 2]

Where baby Danielle and baby Cassie thought that crevices and crevasses were just different ways of saying the same thing.

[Host 1]

I do.

[Host 2]

We're like, yeah, it's like pecan or pecan. Tomato. Tomato. What?

[Host 3]

Yeah, you could hear that full episode. I think it was your Denali episode. It was like our third episode we ever did. And you guys continued to listen after that.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you did. And that's your fault.

[Host 3]

Yeah, it is your fault.

[Host 2]

Life is about growing. I know, and that's why I wanted to say it. Not just to poke fun at ourselves, but even though that is fun to do from time to time, it's very humbling, you know, you have to look back at where you came from, back in the crevice, to really in the crevasse, you know? Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

And we have persevered.

[Host 3]

And to be clear, he's in a crevasse, not a crevice.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 3]

Which we know now.

[Host 2]

And you know as well, if it wasn't made abundantly clear before, I just remember someone correcting us very politely.

[Host 3]

They're like girls, which is very nice of them.

[Host 2]

So nice. In today's climate, we would have been.

[Host 3]

Burned at the stake, and maybe rightfully so.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Okay, well, I will see you, Cassie, in like, 20 minutes. Everybody else, we'll see you next week.

[Host 3]

In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye, everyone.

[Host 2]

See ya.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark book club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and XationalPark.

[Host 2]

After Dark Sat.