The National Forest Serial Killer

Summary

Podcast Summary: National Park After Dark

Episode 352: The National Forest Serial Killer
Release Date: February 2, 2026
Hosts: Danielle & Cassie
Podcast by: Audioboom Studios

---

Episode Overview

This episode of National Park After Dark explores the chilling true crime case of Gary Hilton, also referred to as the “National Forest Serial Killer.” Hosts Danielle and Cassie guide listeners through Hilton’s crime spree across public lands in the early 2000s, detailing how he preyed on hikers, evaded law enforcement, and left lasting scars on wilderness-loving communities. Woven throughout are reminders of the importance of compassion in the face of darkness and the visceral, ripple effects of tragedy across families and communities.

---

Content Guide

• [Introduction & Context] (#introduction-context) — 00:01
• [Setting the Stage: Fear in the Wilderness] (#setting-the-stage-fear-in-the-wilderness) — 03:59
• [Victims & Investigation Begins] (#victims-investigation-begins) — 09:36
• [The Crimes of Gary Hilton] (#the-crimes-of-gary-hilton) — 24:06
• [Connecting the Cases & The Search for the Serial Killer] (#connecting-the-cases-the-search-for-the-serial-killer) — 39:49
• [Capturing Hilton & Aftermath] (#capturing-hilton-aftermath) — 48:31
• [Legal Outcomes & Survivor Advocacy] (#legal-outcomes-survivor-advocacy) — 65:21
• [Ongoing Suspicions & Community Impact] (#ongoing-suspicions-community-impact) — 74:39
• [Reflections, Advocacy, and Ending on a Positive Note] (#reflections-advocacy-positive-note) — 79:48

---

Introduction & Context [00:01–03:51]

• Danielle and Cassie begin by addressing recent social turmoil in the U.S., emphasizing empathy, compassion, and the responsibility of creators to acknowledge injustice.
• Danielle shares a timely quote from Patches (Morbidly Curious Book Club):

  “Curiosity without accountability is just consumption. Curiosity, curiosity paired with empathy can be a catalyst for change.” [02:45]

• The hosts affirm their podcast’s mission: to research and truthfully recount stories, even when uncomfortable—a responsibility especially poignant when discussing dark history and true crime.

---

Setting the Stage: Fear in the Wilderness [03:59–05:38]

• Cassie introduces the episode’s theme: how a violent tragedy in a small town or cherished wild space has ripples far beyond direct victims.
• The loss of safety changes entire communities—residents become hyper-vigilant, spaces lose their innocence, and first responders carry trauma with them.
• Quote:

  “There is no punishment severe enough to restore what has been taken because something fundamental has been undone. Like a shattered plate, it can be glued and pieced together again. But it can never be the same as it once was.” [04:28]

---

Victims & Investigation Begins [09:36–24:06]

The First Known Victims: Jack and Irene Bryant — Pisgah National Forest, NC

• Elderly couple, avid hikers; disappeared October 21, 2007, after heading into Pisgah National Forest.
• Their son Robert discovers their absence after neighbors notice piling mail; car found at a trailhead.
• Irene’s remains found off-trail; killed by blunt-force trauma. Jack remains missing; a failed 911 call from Jack’s phone is discovered.

Notable Moment:

• Cassie reflects on the Bryants’ vibrant retirement:

  “Retirement did not slow them down. It expanded their world, which is my goal when I am in my 80s.” [12:53]

Next Victim: Cheryl Hodges Dunlap — Apalachicola National Forest, FL

• Disappeared December 1, 2007. Devoted mother, nurse, Sunday school teacher, active in her church.
• Car found with slashed tire; purse disturbed but wallet missing; body found decapitated and mutilated two weeks later.
• No clues in her personal life to suspect anyone; investigators strongly suspect abduction/murder by a stranger.

Notable Reflection:

• Danielle on Cheryl’s legacy:

  “It sounds like she, you know, not only being kind and loving and all of those positive attributes, but also... really living how you project yourself to be to everybody... it’s just how you move through life.” [24:06]

---

The Crimes of Gary Hilton [24:06–39:49]

Meredith Emerson — Chattahoochee-Oconee National Forest, GA

• 24-year-old hiker goes missing on January 1, 2008 (“First Day Hike”) with her dog, Ella.
• Massive search effort; dog people and outdoor community feel especially vulnerable.
• Multiple witness sightings: Meredith with a man (50s/60s, white hair, yellow & black jacket, duct tape on shoes, police baton and knife).
• Man behaving strangely—crouching behind rocks, interacting with lone women, repeatedly asking if they’re alone.

Notable Moments:

• On trail safety and paranoia:

  “You see stuff like that on the trail, it’s not uncommon for people to have a weapon... but when they’re being depending on what it is...” [33:12]

• “A police baton is weird to have on [a] trail... Bear spray, a knife, you know, even a gun... But the police baton is really standing out.” [34:08]

Building the Pattern

• Similar MO in all three cases: targeting women alone (often with dogs), approaching as a fellow hiker, ATM withdrawals using victims’ cards, wearing yellow jacket, presence with a dog.
• Multiple states, common behaviors = emergence of a possible serial offender.

---

Connecting the Cases & The Search for the Serial Killer [39:49–48:31]

• Investigators from different states note the pattern—coordinate their investigations.
• Clues from ATM surveillance: distinct yellow jacket, efforts to mask face, matching descriptions across incidents.
• John Tabor, former employer of Hilton, identifies him to police after seeing news coverage.
• Revelations from Hilton’s past: history of scams and involvement in a film about a killer hunting women in the woods, chillingly close to his real crimes.

Chilling Quote:

“He offered detailed thoughts about how a serial killer would think, behave and operate. He helped select filming locations, suggested what types of weapons should be used, and even proposed that the women should fight back.” [44:09]

• Hilton’s behavior escalates as he is pressured by law enforcement; manipulates his former boss for cash while being surveilled.

---

Capturing Hilton & Aftermath [48:31–65:21]

• Hilton is finally apprehended at a Georgia gas station after a tip—caught dumping evidence.
• Evidence: blood-soaked clothing, women’s hiking gear, and other physical evidence in his van.
• Meredith’s dog is found alive, thanks to her efforts at marking ATMs with failed withdrawals, narrowing the search area.

Meredith’s Final Days

• Hilton describes her resistance:

  "[Meredith] managed to disarm him because remember, she's trained in martial arts... she fought like hell." [55:15]

• He holds her captive for three days, sexually assaults her; she repeatedly gives wrong PINs to ATM to create a digital trail.
• Ultimately, Hilton murders and beheads her, leaving her remains in the forest.

Investigator Trauma

• The officers are visibly shaken in later interviews, describing the horrific crime scene and emotional toll of the case.
• Danielle:

  "I think that we understand what happened, and I think that's enough. Yeah, it's horrifying." [58:13]

Legal Proceedings

• Hilton is tried and convicted in Georgia (life sentence). Meredith’s family testifies about the irreparable damage done.
• Subsequent trials in NC (Bryant murders—four consecutive life terms) and FL (Cheryl Dunlap—sentenced to death).

---

Legal Outcomes & Survivor Advocacy [65:21–74:39]

Hilton’s Psychological Profile & Further Investigations

• Hilton confesses and boasts about details ("I killed for money"—hosts dispute motive; [60:50]).
• FBI studies his psyche; enjoys notoriety, recounts history of violence and his deliberate fitness for predatory purpose.
• Refuses to discuss some cases, uses knowledge of evidence as leverage.

The Meredith Emerson Memorial Privacy Act

• After Hilton’s conviction, Hustler magazine makes a disturbing attempt to access and publish Meredith’s nude/death scene photos.
• Outrage leads to legal action—Georgia passes a law restricting release of graphic crime scene images, prioritizing victims’ families’ rights.
• Danielle (expressing outrage over Hustler’s actions):

  "Who in good faith and conscious and as a human being, can stand on that other side and be like, no, actually, we're appealing this because we really want to publish the photos of your deceased, dismembered, and murdered daughter?" [71:33]

• Cassie: "It’s just like... It’s disgusting and it’s despicable." [72:44]

---

Ongoing Suspicions & Community Impact [74:39–79:48]

Are There More Victims?

• Hilton likely linked to additional disappearances (Pisgah National Forest, Table Rock State Park, Georgia, Florida, etc.), but never charged due to lack of hard evidence.
• Similarities in method and location keep multiple old cases open, including hikers and even young children.

Meredith’s Legacy

• Law enforcement credits Meredith’s resistance and strategic thinking for Hilton’s capture and for preventing more murders.

• “Her presence on the trail and her kindness made her memorable to witnesses, allowing them to describe not only her, but the man who was following her... she knowingly narrowed the areas where [Hilton] was operating, drawing public attention that ultimately led to his arrest.” [74:39]

Call to Listeners

• The FBI and local agencies encourage anyone with information, however small, about unsolved wilderness crimes from the late 1990s through the 2000s, to come forward.

---

Reflections, Advocacy, and Ending on a Positive Note [79:48–End]

Safety & Empowerment

• Both hosts express a desire for better personal safety training for women, referencing this case and their own experiences ("if anyone attacks me in the woods, I want to...murder you back.").
• Danielle shares advice from her father:

  “Act like you’re insane. Kick, scream, bite, claw their eyes out. Scream, act like you’re insane. You know, draw attention, flip the out and make this person scared of you.” [82:09]

Uplifting Community Announcement

• Hosts announce an exciting collaborative trip to Svalbard with Tooth and Claw in June 2027—with more seats than ever for their adventure-loving community. [83:58]
• Cassie’s dream of Norway comes true; details available to Patreon members and soon the public.
• Joyful, humorous banter about seeing polar bears and the midnight sun, ending with:

  “Enjoy the view, but watch your back.” [89:35]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Curiosity without accountability is just consumption. Curiosity paired with empathy can be a catalyst for change.” — Patches (Morbidly Curious Book Club) [02:45], read by Danielle.
• “Once you take someone, you’re either killing them or you’re getting caught.” — Gary Hilton (spoken during police interrogation) [62:02]
• “It's not normal for you to go on social media and to see someone being killed in the streets. This is not normal. What's happening…is not normal. These are human beings and just keep compassion at the forefront.” — Cassie [02:51]
• “I want to take all of our listeners and go to like a group defensive training... so we can just up for people who try to do stuff like this.” — Cassie [79:48]
• “You fight like hell.” — Danielle (recounting father’s advice) [82:10]

---

Tone & Style

• Conversational, candid, often irreverent with respectful solemnity where appropriate.
• Deep empathy for victims and families, advocacy for resilience, survivor rights, and public awareness.
• Feminist and trauma-informed, without sensationalizing violence.

---

Key Takeaways

• The wilderness, while a refuge for many, can also conceal human dangers, not just environmental ones.
• Gary Hilton exploited isolation in national forests to commit shocking crimes, evading capture by moving across state lines and blending in as a fellow outdoorsman with a dog.
• Community vigilance, survivor resistance, and inter-agency collaboration were crucial in solving the case.
• The aftermath fueled important privacy legislation for victims and prompted the outdoor community to advocate for safety, self-defense, and one another.
• The legacy of the victims—especially Meredith Emerson—remains: through sacrifice, memory, and improved protections for others.

---

For information on unsolved cases possibly linked to Gary Hilton, contact the FBI at 1-800-CALL-FBI or local authorities.

---

Enjoy the view, but watch your back.

Transcript

[Cassie]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We wanted to take a moment before we get started in this episode because we like to pre record a lot of our stuff a couple weeks ahead of time. And this time there has unfortunately been a lot of events that have unfolded between now and the last time we recorded. And it felt like we couldn't go on with this episode without at least addressing what's been happening.

[Danielle]

Yeah, as everyone in this country is aware, a lot of heartbreaking things have happened and our country is in a state of turmoil that we have not seen in our lifetimes, I think is fair to say. But with that comes some responsibility to acknowledge what's happening, especially with, as anybody with a platform like we have. We have not been political really in the past, and this isn't a political issue anymore as far as how we feel. This is more as like a human issue, an empathy issue. And we want to really address that because, like Cassie said, we are very aware of what's going on. And I actually came across something a couple hours ago and I think it's really fitting and I would really love to share it with everybody.

[Cassie]

It's super short, but it hits the.

[Danielle]

Point and I would love to share it. And it's from our dear friend Patches. If you guys remember our collab we did a couple months ago with Patches over at the Morbidly Curious Book Club. She runs an amazing book club that is so fun and great and she's built a really amazing community. And she posted something on social media today that I would like to share because I think it really aligns with how Cassie and I feel. So Patches wrote, many of the injustices we read about were not accidents. They were the result of power imbalances, willful neglect, dehumanizing organization and institutions, choosing convenience over compassion. To read these stories and refuse to acknowledge their modern echoes would be to treat them as entertainment rather than testimony. And that is not how we operate. Being morbidly curious means wanting to sit with uncomfortable truths. It means wanting to learn, recognize patterns, naming injustice, and understanding that history is not as distant as we like to pretend. The same systems that harmed people in the past often persist today, just with different branding. This book club is a space for critical thinking, compassion, and honest conversation. If the stories we read unsettle us, challenge us, or make us angry, that is not a failure of material. That is the point. Remaining vocal about injustice is not a political stance for us. It is a moral one. So leave with this. Curiosity without accountability is just consumption. Curiosity, curiosity paired with empathy can be a catalyst for change.

[Cassie]

I love that. It's so beautifully said and it's so. It's so true and so important. And especially with National Park After Dark, as you all are aware and have been with us for a long time, we dive into a lot of really dark history. And one thing that we have always promised with our podcast is that we are going to research the truth of things and we're going to tell stories as they are and we're not going to sugarcoat them. And that's the same with what's happening today. You know, our hearts are with the people in Minneapolis. And now we're seeing all of the. I mean, throughout the country. We're seeing these ice operations that are occurring and we're seeing human people being ripped from their families and their homes. We're seeing children affected. It's not normal for you to go on social media and to see someone being killed in the streets. This is not normal. What's happening in the United States right now is not normal. These are human beings and just keep.

[Danielle]

Compassion at the forefront. It's just upsetting and we've been vocal about it on social media, but we just really wanted to make sure it lives in our feed.

[Cassie]

Well, on that note, we do have an episode today that we pre recorded for you a little while ago, so let's just hop right into it. When a kidnapping or murder occurs in a small town, the damage extends far beyond the people directly involved. It shatters whole communities. A violent tragedy creates a ripple effect. The impact at the center is devastating, but the waves travel far. A hiker who loved a particular trail avoids it forever or returns only to find the joy permanently altered. People who once never lock their doors at night begin double bolting them, securing windows, installing security cameras, and bringing home guard dogs. Places that once felt safe now have their residents looking over their shoulders, observing their surroundings and questioning the intent of even the kindest stranger. First responders are not untouched either. The scenes they encounter do not stay behind at the end of a shift. They follow them home, surface in nightmares, and live on in memories they can't escape. Escape. There is no punishment severe enough to restore what has been taken because something fundamental has been undone. Like a shattered plate, it can be glued and pieced back together again. But it can never be the same as it once was. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

[Danielle]

Foreign. And welcome back to National Park After Dark. My name is Danielle.

[Cassie]

And my name is Cassie. And we are talking about true crime. Today we are diving into a Story of a serial Killer.

[Danielle]

And this is one that again, has been, I feel like kind of a broken record so far this year in 2026. But this case has been recommended highly for years and it's been one that we've been holding in our back pocket. But I guess now's the time for sure.

[Cassie]

This is, I think we wanted to start 2026 off by listening to you guys and what you want to learn about and hear about. And this one in particular, I think hits home a lot for me when I was researching because we are going to be diving into a serial killer that was active inside the wilderness, inside National Forest, and was targeting people who were enjoying the outdoors, of course, as people who actively do that ourselves. And, and we think of the risks. And most of the time when you think of these risks, you're thinking about a bear or a mountain lion or falling off a cliff or getting lost. You know, those are the fears that. Or weather. You know, those are the fears that you try to prepare for. But then when you hear about a person who is targeting other people on the trail, it just adds this whole other layer of scariness to it. So this story definitely hit home for me. Just I could see myself in all of these people involved.

[Danielle]

Well, we were talking a little bit about this case before the start of the episode, and I was just saying how I know very minimal about this, surprisingly, because it's one of the biggest true crime cases in the outdoor specifically realm. And I know one of the victims or I'm familiar with one of the victim's story, but I'm excited to hear this case in its entirety because I've never. I know there's documentaries and books and all of that, but I've just never gone down that road. So this is all pretty new to me.

[Cassie]

Yeah. So if you haven't picked up what we are speaking about yet, today, we're going to be talking about Gary Hilton, who has gone down being known as the National Forest serial killer. And he was very active in the early 2000s. But we'll get into it a little bit more because there's thoughts that there's a lot that he might have done that he hasn't been caught for. But in particular, this story takes place in the early 2000s. So a lot of us remember, I mean, I remember a lot of this stuff when it was going. Going on. I can't believe it's already been like 20 years since this has all happened, which is crazy. But I'm going to dive into how he used public lands as a spot to target people, but also the isolation kind of helped him get away with things and made him go under the radar for quite a while. And to understand how he was able to operate this way, I'm going to dive back into his earliest crimes that eventually led to an investigation to him and the crimes that brought it all together to find him. I don't currently have a cat, but I did grow up with them and I worked as a vet tech for years. So trust me when I say that I've seen it all. Hairballs, stomach issues, cats turning their nose up at food that's supposedly premium. So when I saw such a positive difference in cats that were eating Smalls, I was sold. It's 2026 so let me ask you this, do you still feed your cat like it's 1926? This episode is sponsored by Smalls. Take advantage of their New Year's Special and get 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com NPAD Smalls makes fresh, protein packed cat food with preservative free ingredients you would actually recognize from your own fridge and it gets delivered right to your door. Cats.com even named Smalls their best overall cat food. Getting started is super easy. You just share your cat's diet, health and preferences and Smalls builds a personalized sampler. Getting started is super easy. You just share your cat's diet, health and preferences and Smalls builds a personalized sampler. One Smalls customer, Jennifer M. Even said after switching, after every fading, he gets this burst of energy and starts running around the house. His fur is softer and more vibrant. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend anything else. I love that. Smalls was started by people literally home cooking for their cats and now they've served millions of meals nationwide. Plus 88% of cat owners reported overall health improvements after switching, which is huge and it's risk free. If your cat won't eat it, Smalls will refund you. Make 2026 your cat's healthiest year, take advantage of their New Year's special and get 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com/NPAD one last time. That's 60 off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com NPAD. So we're going to start off in Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina. In western North Carolina, Pisgah National Forest is famed for having over 500, 000 acres of forest filled with scenic mountains, beautiful Hikes, the lots of swimming holes and waterfalls, and an abundance of climbing opportunities. Outside of Asheville, North Carolina, this park is a hub for outdoor recreation, and people flock from all over the country to be here. When John Davis Bryant, known to friends and family as Jack, and his wife, Irene Woods Bryant, Both in their 80s, retired, they sought the North Carolina mountains as a refuge and an adventure. Even in their 80s, they went on weekly hikes into the national forest. They had been married for 58 years, and retirement did not slow them down. It expanded their world, which is my goal when I am in my 80s. If I'm hiking in my 80s, hell, yeah.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Well, I sent you the woman I think you're gonna be in your 80s on Instagram.

[Cassie]

Is she real or is she AI?

[Danielle]

I feel like she's real, and really, you don't?

[Cassie]

I don't know. She was giving me AI vibes.

[Danielle]

Yeah, because she looks so fabulous. Well, we have to tell everyone right now. Okay, sorry. I know this is a really serious episode, so let's just get this out of the way first. So her Instagram handle is Baddie Bethany. Like B, A, D, I, E Bethany. Yeah, she looks great.

[Cassie]

She does look great. I just wasn't sure if she was real or not, but I.

[Danielle]

82 years young, iconic, rich, and fabulous.

[Cassie]

And all of her captions are just gold. Every single one is hilarious.

[Danielle]

I don't know. Anyway, I feel like she's real, but that's how I envision you, which is so funny because you're so such a true Gemini, because I can see that crystal clear for you, like, to a T. And then I can also, at the same time, just as equally, see you doing what you just described.

[Cassie]

I would love to. Why can't you do both?

[Danielle]

You can.

[Cassie]

And, yeah, you can be fabulous, and.

[Danielle]

You can be outdoorsy and iconic.

[Cassie]

And iconic and in your 80s and still adventuring, which was what Jack and Irene were doing in North Carolina, which I just thought was really, really cool. Jack had worked as an engineer before earning a law degree from Cornell and served as a town attorney in upstate New York. He was known as structured, generous, and kind. He was also an experienced hiker, completing the entirety of the Appalach and Trail over several years of section hiking. Even though he had arthritis, Irene was endlessly curious, academically accomplished, and deeply engaged with the natural world. She earned a doctorate, practiced veterinary medicine at a time when few women did. Collected insects, studied forestry and fish biology, garden, quilted, and took classes simply because she wanted to understand more. Together, they were loved by all who met them and anyone who's a veterinarian, you just know that they are wonderful people. Yeah, it takes a lot of dedication to do that job.

[Danielle]

I know. I was just reviewing some of our old photos and videos and stuff from our time in Vet Med, and I just was kind of thinking about that, too. Of like, a lot of these people are still veterinarians, and we still are in contact or friends with a lot of them. And just the things that they. I know we've said it before, but the things that people in Vet Med do for the sake of other strangers. Pets is incredible. And you owe them kindness. When you bring your pet in, or maybe even some cookies or like a nice compliment, like an appreciation, you know, they have hearts of gold, for sure.

[Cassie]

And veterinarians, I'm always just so impressed by them because they are so. All of them are so intelligent because veterinarians, I mean, not that I. Doctors, of course, are also very, very intelligent, but doctors go in for a specialty human. Doctors usually go in for specialty. Veterinarians know something about everything. You go in and you have a heart issue. A veterinarian knows about it. You also have orthopedic issues. A veterinarian knows about it, you know, and knows the next step.

[Danielle]

So, yeah, just at like a GP level, a general provider level, the breadth of knowledge that they have to have about not only various conditions, but various species is insane. I remember Dr. A being talking about her exams, her final exams, and being like, obviously she's stressed for a year preparing for this. And she's like, I just had to know everything. And I. 80 of my test was about chickens. Chicken.

[Cassie]

She's like, I'm not even gonna be.

[Danielle]

Taking care of chicken. But it's like you had to be prepared to know everything about everything. So, yeah, anyway.

[Cassie]

Yeah, anyway, anyway. Irene was a veterinarian, and I just thought that that was also really cool. She's outdoorsy. She's a veterinarian. I'm like, she sounds like she was a really, really cool woman. On October 21, 2007, Jack and Irene drove into Pisgah National Forest for a beautiful fall day hike, a time of year that undoubtedly filled the park with others seeking fall foliage and the beautiful mild weather that's there. They parked their SUV along Yellow Gap Road near U.S. route 276, an area with both hiking and camping, and headed into the woods together. But they never returned. It took a while before people realized that they were missing. It was their neighbors who first noticed that something was wrong. When Their mail began piling up on their doorstep and no one had heard from them. Neighbors contacted the sheriff's office in town and called their son Robert, who was living in Texas at the time. He flew up the following day and alerted local authorities. When they found the house door was locked, they broke in to search around, noticing rotting fruit on the counter, laundry halfway done, and a house that clearly hadn't been occupied in at least a week. Although Robert didn't know when his parents had left or what their plans had been, he felt strongly that they should begin their search in Pisgah National Forest because it was the place that they most frequently visited. Upon his arrival into the park, he found his father's vehicle parked at a trailhead. But there was no sign of either his mother or his father. So he drove to the ranger station and reported his parents missing, stating he hadn't heard from them since they arrived in the park on October 21, but found his father's vehicle parked at a trailhead. It was now November 7, 2007. So it's been over. It's been about two weeks since they've been missing at this point. Immediately, search and rescue was called in. And the first thing that they noticed was the car they had had clearly been there for a while. It was unmoved. There was, you know, there's dust, pollen, leaves gathering on the top. It looks like a car that hasn't moved in a while. And at that point they got a little bit worried, like, okay, they parked at this trailhead. This car has not moved. What's going on? At that point, the search ramped up and police worried that there was some sort of foul play here. The search continued for two days until on November 9, off the trail the Bryants had been hiking, they found clothing and the remains of Irene Bryant. It was very obvious from the scene that she had been murdered. Later, autopsy reports stated she died from blunt force trauma to her head by something with a cylinder shape. But now they had some huge questions. One, who did this? And where was Jack Bryant? These questions left investigators to dig deeper, searching the Brian's phone records for any clues. That's when they discovered that Jack had made a phone call to 911 on October 21st at 3:59pm unfortunately, there was a lack of reception in the area and the call didn't actually go through. Records showed that it bounced off the nearest cell phone tower but never actually connected to call authorities. They were able to triangulate the call, finding that the call was made from about a 30 minute drive from where Irene was found because his car was still in the parking lot of the park. This led investigators to believe that Jack may have been abducted. When news reports came out about what had happened and investigators were looking for leads, two women came forward with a concerning experience of their own. Not far from where Irene was later found, two women recalled an unsettling encounter while they were picnicking with their dogs. An older man, estimated to be in his 50s or 60s, approached them with his own dog and acting as if he wanted the dogs to meet and become friends. Almost immediately, the women felt uneasy. Something about his presence just felt totally wrong to them. They described having a physical reaction with the hair on their back of their neck standing up, which was this clear warning to them. They're like, I don't know what's going on here, but I feel this is so wrong. And both of them found a way to get out of there immediately. They're like, we have to go. This person's not safe. At this point, investigators had a description of a potential suspect, but they still didn't know who he was. And obviously Jack was still missing. Just weeks later, another person disappeared, this time more than 400 miles south in Florida's Panhandle in Apalachicola national forest. Spanning over 640,000 acres, it's the largest national forest in the state and is known for its biking, paddling, birding and fishing. One of its most visited areas is Leon Sink Geological Area, where more than five miles of hiking trails wind past a series of visible sinkholes and openings into an extensive underground cave system. Many of these pools are filled with striking cerulean and turquoise water. It's a wonderful place to go for a walk and sit and enjoy nature. And that's exactly what Cheryl Hodges Dunlap was doing on December 1, 2007. She walked the trails before sitting down on a log to read a book and enjoy the sounds of nature. The following morning, on December 2, 2007, when Cheryl didn't arrive to teach her Sunday school class in Tallahassee, it immediately raised alarms to friends and co workers. Cheryl was not someone who ever missed commitments, especially without notice. Cheryl was a 46 year old single mom and worked as a registered nurse at Florida State's University Students Student Health Center. She was active in her church, river of Life, where she served as a Sunday school teacher and prayer leader. She had trained in ministry and traveled on mission trips to China, Haiti and Mexico. After Hurricane Ivan, she volunteered in Pensacola to help with disaster relief. Her life revolved around service Faith and showing up for others. So when she did not show up to her class, it was deeply concerning when they still had not heard from her. By the following morning on December 3, she was reported missing to the local sheriff's department. Her friends knew that she loved the outdoors and spent a significant time in the Apalachicola National Forest. So later that day, they went looking for her there. It wasn't long before they found her white Toyota parked at the Leon Sinks area. When investigators arrived, it was immediately clear that something was wrong. Cheryl's car was not parked along the paved road, but instead pulled off on a logging road. One of the rear tires was flat and appeared to have been deliberately slashed. The doors were unlocked, and her purse was found on the passenger seat, Its contents disturbed in a way that suggested someone had gone through it. And her wallet was missing. From the start, investigators believe Cheryl may have been abducted. One of their first actions was to place a tracer on her debit card so they would be alerted if anyone tried to use them. A large search effort was launched into the surrounding national forest. But despite extensive searching, there were no signs of Cheryl anywhere. When her story reached the news, witnesses started coming forward. One couple reported seeing her at Leon Sink, sitting peacefully on a log, reading a book. As they walked the trail closer to her, she got up from her spot and walked past them on the trail and waved a quick hello before continuing on. They didn't notice anything out of the ordinary at the time. The search continued, and several days later, on December 15, a hunter came across human remains in Apalachicola National Forest. What he discovered was deeply disturbing. The body he found had been decapitated. Shaken, the hunter ran back to his truck where his son was waiting for him, and the two immediately left the area and contacted authorities. When investigators arrived, they were met with a horrific scene. Not only had this person been decapitated, but their hands had also been removed, making identification difficult. Because of the condition of the remains, an autopsy could not determine a definitive cause of death, though investigators believed the fatal injuries likely involved trauma to the head. Despite the challenges, authorities suspected the remains belonged to Cheryl Hodges Dunlap. That suspicion was later confirmed when they were able to match the DNA to Cheryl. Investigators began speaking with the people closest to Cheryl, trying to determine whether anyone might have wanted to hurt her. They were unable to identify a suspect or even someone who harbored any ill will toward Cheryl. Everyone who knew her described her as loving, as kind, generous, deeply caring, and not a single, single person that they spoke to had even a Slightly negative thing to say about her.

[Danielle]

That's an accomplishment. Think about that. Think about if, God forbid, something like that happened. And, you know, people are. Investigators are looking into your life and kind of poking and prodding into every sort of avenue or relationship or dynamic that you have. It sounds like she, you know, not only being kind and loving and all of those positive attributes, but also just what she did, you know, teaching Sunday school, doing ministry work, you know, all that, that's putting your money where your mouth is and really living how you project yourself to be to everybody, not just like the people you like and care about, but literally everybody you come in contact with. It's just how you move through life. So I don't know if I move through life like I aspire to move through life with peace and love for everyone. But it's hard out here, you know.

[Cassie]

It is hard out here, but I think that's a great point, that it is an accomplishment to have no one in their life. And they're deeply investigating this. Of course, this is a huge crime that just happened. And yeah, they're finding that every single person that they speak to just has nothing but really wonderful things to say. So not long after they find her and they start interviewing people. A hiker reported a suspicious firing in the forest that appeared to contain bone fragments. When authorities examined the site more closely, they discovered fragments of a skull and fingers that had been burned at extremely high temperatures, making them difficult to detect.

[Danielle]

And this is the same national forest, right?

[Cassie]

Or yeah, this is in the same area. A clump of hair was also recovered from the firing and later confirmed through testing to belong to Cheryl. Because of the brutality and deliberate nature of the crime, investigators began to consider the possibility that they were dealing with a serial offender. At the time, there was no clear connection to any other cases, but that was about to change. On January 1, 2008, 24 year old Meredith Hope Emerson set out for a hike on Blood Mountain, the highest peak on Georgia's Appalachian Trail and a part of the Chattahoochee Oconee National Forest. The park boasts itself as the gateway to the state's outdoor recreation and is a popular spot for hiking because of the waterfalls and beautiful mountains, mountain views, and of course, the Appalachian Trail. On 1 January, she was probably doing what a lot of us do, and that's January 1st. You do your first day hike. First day hike. We all. Did you do one this year?

[Danielle]

I didn't. I was going to, but that's when I think Chaska Tweaked his leg weird on the ice or snow, and he's obviously, as you know, very arthritic, and he's almost 12, so he's slower and limpy to begin with. But I think he did something shortly before the new year, and he was favoring his legs so bad. He wasn't even weight bearing for a while.

[Cassie]

So there was no hike in the cards.

[Danielle]

There was no hike in the cards. I couldn't go without him, you know, so we did a first day, very small walk in the backyard.

[Cassie]

That counts. That counts. It's a first day relaxing day.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cassie]

Well, that's what I imagine that she was doing is first day hike. It's January 1st. Go out. She was an avid hiker, and she also had a blue belt in martial arts. She was fit and active and frequently hiked this area with her beloved dog Ella, who she was actually training to become a therapy dog. That morning, she had left a note on a chalkboard for her roommate saying that she went out hiking for the day with Ella. When Meredith did not return home that night, her friends began calling her phone, and by the following day, her family had contacted authorities. Search crews move quickly, with volunteers and officers spreading out across the mountain, calling her name into the woods and operating under the assumption that she may have become lost or injured, since somewhere along the trail. As the search unfolded, media outlets began sharing photos of Meredith and her dog, Ella, in the hope that someone might recognize them or provide a tip. Friends spoke publicly, saying they were hopeful but increasingly worried. And they emphasized how inseparable Meredith and Ella were, noting that Ella would never leave Meredith's side and Meredith would never willingly leave Ella behind. Like many searches in the area, the initial belief was that Meredith had wandered off the trail or been injured and would be located close quickly. But as investigators learned more about Meredith's experience as a hiker and her familiarity with blood mountain, concern grew that her disappearance might not have been an accident. Meredith's parents flew in from Colorado, where they were living immediately, and her father joined search teams in the woods while canine units, helicopters, and ground crews continued searching the area for any signs of her. At the beginning of the investigation, attention briefly turned towards Meredith's boyfriend, largely because of how detached and unemotional he appeared during the search. That suspicion did not last long. Friends quickly came forward to vouch for him, and his phone records confirmed that he was in Atlanta at the time Meredith disappeared, effectively ruling him out. As the search continued, tips from the public began to come in. Multiple witnesses reported seeing Meredith walking Along the spur trail, a connector between the Appalachian Trail and the parking area, Two people recalled seeing her trail running with her dog that day. One witness remembered the encounter clearly because his own dogs had run up to Meredith and her dog, and he promptly apologized. You know, it's that typical. You're on the trail and your dog runs. If your dog's off leash, your dog runs up to another dog, and you're like, oh, sorry. Sorry. He's friendly. Like, is your dog friendly? And apologizing. It sounds like that.

[Danielle]

I know it well. Yes.

[Cassie]

Yeah. Yes. And it was fine. Ella was super friendly. The dogs got along. So it was a memorable encounter for this person. And they're. So. They remembered Meredith pretty well because they talked to her for a moment and met her dog. But both witnesses also noticed something else. Behind Meredith, an older man, estimated to be in his 50s or 60s, with white hair and wearing a yellow and black North Face jacket, was hiking with his dog. One witness observed that the man appeared to be trying to keep pace with Meredith and found it unsettling that he had duct tape wrapped around his shoes along with what looked like a police baton and a knife attached to his belt.

[Danielle]

Okay. Duct tape around his shoes. What? Why?

[Cassie]

I mean, I think I would notice that for a hiker. I'd be like, why are you out hiking in shoes that need to be duct taped?

[Danielle]

I mean, I. The only thing I can think of is I've seen, especially in the northeast, when the ticks are really bad, I've seen people wrap their. The top of their shoes and hiking boots to, like, kind of overlap between the top of their shoes and the bottom of their pants, and they actually duct tape inside out. So that ticks gets attached. Yeah.

[Cassie]

Interesting, because you'd also get a lot of other things.

[Danielle]

I know, but I have seen that, so I just want to.

[Cassie]

Okay. I was picturing it more that they didn't have good shoes, so they duct taped them together. But it could have been something.

[Danielle]

Well, that's why I'm like, what. How is the duct tape involved? Like, is it actually. I don't think it's shoe together or.

[Cassie]

Yeah, I think for this. For the witness coming forward about this, it was just something that they noted. They were like, oh, that's weird. His shoe. I noticed that he had duct tape wrapped around his shoes, and I thought it was weird.

[Danielle]

Yeah, I mean, it is memorable. And I think something that would stand out as a detail because even though I've heard of it being done before, it's not like that's something you see every day. And the other details that you just mentioned also. Yes.

[Cassie]

Yeah. Yeah. Noticing some weapons on someone who is a knife is more. I mean, if I was out in the woods hiking and I saw someone with a knife, I would notice it, but I don't think I would be weirded out by it. But the police baton on a belt, I think would be really notable.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Did I tell you, the other day, when I was doing a loop with Chaska around a lake I go to kind of frequently, there was somebody who. And it's legal in New Hampshire to open carry, but it came, like, a couple weeks after I was talking to one of the locals. It's a very nice older gentleman with a chihuahua named buddy, who's, like, 16 years old, and he's always there on certain days, and we've, like, chatted and stuff with him and his wife and whatever. But anyway, he was, like, talking to me about kind of an offshoot of the trail. And he's like, we passed it, and he asked if I ever go down that way. And I said no. And he's like, good. You should stick to this inner loop around the lake, because there's just some sketchy stuff going on down that way. And I was like, oh, okay. And then a couple weeks later, I was there by myself with Chaska, and this guy comes from that area that I was told about, and he was open, carrying, and he just looked very nervous and on edge. Not that he was, like, running away from something, but he just seemed like something was up. Something was up, and he was just kind of, like, holding that area of his weapon on his belt. I'm like, what is going on?

[Cassie]

Like, getting ready to fire. It was just scary, you know, sketchy. And another memorable thing, right? Like, when you see stuff like that on the trail, it's not uncommon for people to have a weapon with them, but when they're being depending on what it is.

[Danielle]

And also, another thing, you know, like, in New Hampshire, especially most of the state, seeing somebody with a weapon is really not that out of the ordinary, especially because we have a big hunting community, and, you know, people just. It just kind of is what it is. But for this particular area of New Hampshire, it stood out.

[Cassie]

It stood out. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people carry in New Hampshire, but it's concealed. I know. I mean, I know a lot of people who. I mean, they'll just be at the grocery store, and they'll have something strapped in there.

[Danielle]

Right.

[Cassie]

But you can't see it over their jacket or you know, like they have it. But it's not, it's not like, here's.

[Danielle]

My police baton for everyone to see.

[Cassie]

Yeah, and a police baton is weird to have on trail, like bear spray, a knife, you know, even a gun I don't think is super out of the ordinary, especially if you're out west and you're in grizzly country. I mean, that's a given. But the police baton is really standing out. A well built wardrobe is not about chasing trends. It is about pieces that work together, feel good every time you put them on and actually hold up over time. That is what Quince does best. Premium materials, thoughtful design and everyday staples you can rely on even when the weather starts to to shift. Quint has all the everyday essentials I love with quality that lasts. Organic cotton sweaters that feel soft but substantial. Polos that work for literally any occasion. Lighter jackets that keep you warm without feeling bulky. And the list goes on. What really sets Quince apart is how they do it. They work directly with top factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, you're just paying for quality. And everything is built to handle daily wear and stuff still look good season after season. They also only partner with factories that meet really high standards for craftsmanship and ethical production, which of course always matters to me when I'm shopping. I'll say this, the wool coat I picked up from Quint is holding up way better than other coats I've bought that cost way more. It looks good, keeps me warm. And best part, it didn't break the bank. And my cashmere sweater, ridiculously soft and it doesn't cost a fortune. Refresh your wardrobe with quint. Go to quince.com npad for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com npad free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com npad. That same guy who reported the police baton and the knife and thought it was weird also reported another disturbing detail. While hiking back down the mountain, he noticed the police baton lying on the ground beside a dog leash, dog treats and two water bottles at the trailhead parking lot. The witness also noticed a white van and took a photograph that captured the vehicle along with a man in a yellow jacket standing with his back to it. Other hikers came forward as well, reporting that they had seen a man crouching behind rocks along the trail on the same day Meredith disappeared. Behavior that made them feel really uneasy at the time. Also weird behavior.

[Danielle]

Don't crouch anywhere. Don't crouch that I can see.

[Cassie]

Like, if you're off to the side of the trail and you're like taking a leak or something, that's fine, whatever.

[Danielle]

But I feel like that's squatting. Like, that's a different type of body positioning.

[Cassie]

Well, you're also going to be facing a different direction. I don't know. When I pee on the trail, I'm not. I'm picturing someone crouching behind rocks and they can see them looking out at the trail.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Like creeping around.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Not like I need to do some business privately.

[Cassie]

Yeah. When I do business privately on the trail, you won't see me from the trail.

[Danielle]

No.

[Cassie]

Although occasionally I'll look and be like, oh, shit, there's the trail right there. And be like, pants are already down. I'm like, no one come to.

[Danielle]

You're also very. I thought I was concealed.

[Cassie]

You.

[Danielle]

You go far, though. That's something I have noticed. You take. You do make an effort to, like, really get out there and stay concealed. I'm just like. I mean, I'll. I'm not. I'm not going to just drop them right there. I'm going to do my due diligence to trying, but I'm not going as far as you are. I remember when we were in Alaska. Was it Alaska? No, I'm sorry, not Alaska. When we were out at the Granite park chalet and we were on the Swift Current lookout trail or whatever and went out and we had just been talking about this. The bear set sightings that we've seen in the. The big male grizzly that was in this area. And like around every corner, we're like, hey, bear. Hey, bear. Just in case. And then when it's time to go off to go to the bathroom, you just. You're out into the underbrush. I'm like, she's brave. Look at her go. Like, this could be the last time.

[Cassie]

Well, everything was so open there because there was kind of a field. And then I was trying to get to the trees.

[Danielle]

No, but it was so scary.

[Cassie]

But I did. I thought of it when I was peeing. I was like, God, I kind of went farther than I meant you.

[Danielle]

Yes, I know. It was so.

[Cassie]

See everyone kind of like roaming around. But I was.

[Danielle]

You were out there?

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

I was like, there she goes.

[Cassie]

I like my privacy.

[Danielle]

She goes again.

[Cassie]

So there's the. The report of the weird stuff on the Ground. And then there's also this man crouching behind rocks. Those were not the only encounters that stood out. One woman later contacted investigators to describe an interaction she had experienced the day before Meredith vanished. She had been hiking the same trail with her family and had walked slightly ahead when a man emerged from the woods and stepped onto the trail behind her. She moved aside to let him pass, noticing that he was walking a golden retriever. And the man struck up a conversation, asking about her dog and saying his dog's name was Dandy. He then began asking her questions about whether she was prepared for the hike, whether she had a cell phone, and whether or not she was alone. The interaction made her uncomfortable, but before it could continue, her father caught up to her. She said goodbye to the man, and they went their separate ways. But it was only after she saw the news coverage of Meredith's disappearance in the days that followed that she realized she may have encountered the same man.

[Danielle]

That's a very chilling realization.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

And also, you know, knowing. I mean, I'm sure after all this comes out in its entirety, and this woman gets a clearer picture of the extent of what this guy had done. But like you described the couple in the beginning, just because you're with another person doesn't necessarily mean that you're safe from this particular individual, you know, and that's just so scary to me. And that he's using his dog as a touch point to form this sort of, like, ease of connection and like, oh, it's okay. I have a golden retriever.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

I have the nicest dog on the planet.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

And his name's Dandy. And like, oh, you know, I'm safe. This is great. You can trust me.

[Cassie]

It's sick. And it's smart, because it is. People trust dogs. People trust dogs more than people. And.

[Danielle]

And it's not even just the dog. It's this. I think there's this psychological thing of, like. At least for me and my way of thinking, if I see you have a dog, I'm like, you clearly love and take care of this being. There must be some goodness about you. And that's dog.

[Cassie]

People feel safe.

[Danielle]

That's. Yeah, that. And he knows that. That at some level, subconscious or conscious, it's a tactic. Yeah, it's. It's.

[Cassie]

Yeah, it's a tactic, but it's clearly not fully working, because all of these witnesses that have come forward so far that have interacted with him, they're like, yeah, he had a dog, but something was off.

[Danielle]

Yeah, he's crouching he's following. He's being weird.

[Cassie]

He's asking me if I'm alone or if I have a cell phone. Yeah, but he has a dog, you know, so. Yeah, but he's definitely utilizing that dog to gain some trust. With a third disappearance in a national forest, a pattern was beginning to emerge. And the investigators in North Carolina noticed it and called the investigators in Georgia. This agent that called them detailed what had happened to John and Irene Bryant, explaining that Irene had been found deceased while Jack remained missing. Investigators believe Jack may have been abducted for financial gain. And when they reviewed the couple's bank records, they discovered an ATM withdrawal that raised serious concerns. On October 22, the day after John and Irene disappeared, $300 with was withdrawn from their account at an ATM roughly 140 miles from their last known location in Duck Point, North Carolina, a town bordering the Chattahoochee National Forest. Security footage showed a man using the ATM wearing a yellow jacket with his face partially obscured by a hood. While the image was unclear, investigators noticed that based on the man's build and movement, the it was evident that this person on the camera was not Jack. But Jack and Irene were not the only connection investigators began to see. In between the cases in Georgia and the one in North Carolina, financial activity tied to another disappearance was also drawing attention. After Cheryl Hodges Dunlap vanished on December 1, 2007, a series of suspicious transactions occurred on December 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Three cash withdrawals were made using her debit card totaling 700, with additional attempts declined after daily limits were reached. Surveillance footage from the ATMs showed a person wearing a mask made of tape along with glasses and a hat, attempting to conceal their identity. The man's clothing and build closely matched the descriptions investigators were receiving in both Georgia and North Carolina, including the repeated detail of a yellow jacket. Investigators staked out one of the ATMs, hoping the man might return, but he never did. Still, the pattern was becoming harder to ignore. Separate disappearances, separate states, but the same behavior and the same attempts to access victims money. For the first time, investigators began to seriously consider that these cases could all be connected. What they still did not know was who this man was. That changed when a call came in from a man named John Tabor, who told authorities he believed he recognized their suspect. And he believed it to be Gary Hilton. John had previously interviewed Gary for a telemarketing position at his home improvement company and had ultimately hired him. At first, Gary came across as charismatic and personable, someone who fit in with his company easily. But over time, John noticed a shift in his behavior. Gary became volatile and increasingly frightening, eventually threatening John over money. Because of this, John fired him. When John saw the news coverage, he did not hesitate to call authorities and tell them what he thought. Soon after, investigators began looking closely into Gary Hilton. They discovered a history of minor theft related offenses, but nothing in his record suggested prior violent crimes. Even so, law enforcement moved quickly, releasing his driver's license photo to the public and asking people to be out on the look for him. One of the more unexpected people to come forward with information about Gary was his own lawyer. The attorney told investigators that Gary had previously scammed people by posing as a charity caller, convincing them to donate money and then keeping the funds to himself. He also revealed that Gary had assisted him as an advisor on a low budget film titled Deadly Run. The premise of the film centered on a man who kidnaps women, releases them into the woods, and then hunts and kills them. According to the attorney, when he explained that the movie would focus on a serial killer, Gary was enthusiastic and vocal, full of ideas. He offered detailed thoughts about how a serial killer would think, behave and operate. He helped select filming locations, suggested what types of weapons should be used, and even proposed that the women should fight back. To make the story more compelling. Investigators noted that some of the filming locations were also very close to where Meredith had gone missing.

[Danielle]

God, that is so creepy. It reminds me a lot of when O.J. simpson wrote the like, if I did it book.

[Cassie]

Ugh, that was so gross.

[Danielle]

It's like, come on. Like, are do you think that the world is just was born and created yesterday? You know, it just.

[Cassie]

We know you did it.

[Danielle]

Yeah, like, why would you. Anyway, anyway. But yeah, that's. And it's really hard because, you know, there are many people who create works of fiction that surround, I mean, major motion pictures and books and things that center around true crime that are not killers themselves. But in this context, it is very alarming.

[Cassie]

Yeah, very. And especially when he's like, he was enthusiastic. He wanted to dive into the minds of a serial killer and he knew everything. He knew exactly how a serial killer would look. And now he's is a suspect for multiple murders and for a woman who is missing because Meredith at this point, we have no idea where she is.

[Danielle]

Oh, right, right, yes.

[Cassie]

Shortly after this new information surfaced, Gary Hilton actually called John Tabor, unaware that John had already contacted authorities. During the call, Gary apologized for his past behavior, saying he was trying to get his life back on track. He told John he needed about 700 and asked if John would leave him a check for at his office, John agreed. But behind the scenes, law enforcement arranged for a SWAT team to be waiting, hoping that if Gary showed up, there might still be time to save Meredith. They waited through the night, but Gary never showed. Then another possible lead emerged. On January 4, someone attempted to use Meredith's debit card at an ATM in Gainesville, Georgia, followed by another attempt in Canton. Unfortunately, the bank did not report the activity until days later, and by then, whatever trail those transactions might have provided had gone cold. Around the same time, another crucial tip came in. On January 4, a woman contacted authorities to report that a dog matching Ella's description had wandered into a Kroger outside of Atlanta. She brought the dog to a veterinarian where a microchip confirmed that it was Ella. Soon after, reports surfaced of a white van parked near the trash cans behind the Kroger store. Investigators searched the dumpsters and recovered several trash bags containing Meredith's wallet and identification, along with clothing stained with fresh blood.

[Danielle]

This is the part of this story that I remember this.

[Cassie]

This in particular. Yeah, I actually, for Meredith's story, I remember watching this all unfold on the news and when she first went missing and especially. And people listening, you'll probably see it as well, her family photo. They had a photo of her and Ella that was going around everywhere. And as soon as I saw her photo, I was like, I know this story. And I remember tuning into it and watching it on the news and seeing it all unfold. But of course, with these discoveries, an investigation that was already underway intensified rapidly as fears for Meredith's life became increasingly urgent. By around 9pm that night, multiple 911 calls came in reporting that Gary Hilton had actually been spotted at a Chevron gas station outside, outside of Atlanta throwing items away from his van. And actually, one of the callers was in the parking lot and was like, he's here. I'm watching him throw out a ton of stuff in the trash can. I know it's him. I've seen his picture all over the news. I can see blood visibly in the van. Get over here now. And you can listen to the 911 call. And he's. He sounds very nervous. He's frantic. He's like, I know this is the guy. Get down here. I know it's him. He's right here. And of course, he recognized him both by not just his photo, but he's. He also has a golden retriever with him. This has to be him. Police rushed to the scene and took Gary into custody without incident. Meredith, however, was not with him. But for the first time, investigators had finally caught Gary. When officers checked the dumpsters nearby, they found a large amount of evidence. Inside were sleeping bags, camping gear, pornographic magazines, bloody clothing, hiking pants, chains, hiking boots, and women's clothing, much of it stained with blood. Inside Gary's van, investigators found additional blood evidence. One item in particular stood out. A fleece with so much blood soaked into the neckline that investigators said it could have been wrung out.

[Danielle]

Oh, my God. And you know what that means.

[Cassie]

Well, after consulting with a medical examiner on whether that volume of blood was survivable, investigators were forced to deliver devastating news to Meredith's parents. They explained that it was extremely unlikely Meredith had survived. When Gary Hilton was in custody, investigators began questioning him immediately. They asked him where Meredith was, but he refused to tell them, instead saying they should just kill him. After roughly 10 hours in custody, Hilton requested an attorney. Shortly after, his legal team approached investigators with an offer. If prosecutors agreed not to seek the death penalty, Hilton would provide information about Meredith's location.

[Danielle]

Wait. Not to. Okay, so he was like, just please kill me. And now they're saying, if you don't kill him, we'll tell you. Yeah, okay. Just wanna.

[Cassie]

He's like, wait, never mind. I don't want to die.

[Danielle]

Yeah, it's like, we don't give a. About what you want or not.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Anyway.

[Cassie]

But in Georgia, they do have the death penalty there. But investigators did reluctantly agree because at this point, they're like, we need to find Meredith. We need to find closure.

[Danielle]

Well, she's priority.

[Cassie]

She's priority. Especially because even though they had given the news, it was really unlikely that she survived. I think there was still this thread of hope of what if, maybe. But also, we need to find her. We need to bring her home to her family, no matter what condition she's in. So they did agree, but not because they believed he didn't deserve it. They actually were hoping at this point, they had an inkling that he was involved with the other cases. And Florida also has the death penalty. So they're like, you know what? We won't try you for the death penalty, but we're hoping down the line, someone else will.

[Danielle]

Right.

[Cassie]

This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack, hydration and coffee sponsor. IQ Bar protein bars, IQ Mix hydration mixes and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious, low sugar, brain and body fuel you need to win your day. The new year always feels like a clean slate. A chance to reset, refocus and turn frustration into fuel. And that is exactly why I love IQ Bar. Their products are packed with clean, functional ingredients like magnesium and lion's mane that actually support your body and your brain. Plus, everything is clean, label, certified and completely free from gluten, dairy, soy, GMOs and artificial ingredients. If you want to try everything, their Ultimate Sampler Pack is such a good place to start. You get nine IQ Bar Protein Bars, eight IQ Mix Hydration Sticks and four IQ Joe Mushroom Coffee Sticks so you can figure out which one you love most. I always keep IQ Bar Plant protein bars in my bag because they're a smarter snack option with plenty of plant protein, tons of fiber and no added sugar. What I love about IQ Bar is that it supports both my brain and my body. IQ Joe helps me stay focused in the morning, IQ Bars keep me fueled when I'm on the go, and IQ Mix helps me recover after workouts or days out on the trail without any added sugar. The New Year gives us all a chance to reset. Maximize your brain and body's potential with IQ Bars, protein bars, hydration mixes and mushroom coffees. Their Ultimate Sampler pack includes all three and right now IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products, including the ultimate sampler pack plus free shipping. To get your 20% off, text PARC to 64,000 text PARC to 64,000 that's park to 64,000 message and data rates may apply. See Terms for details. Hilton then told investigators that Meredith was in Dawson Forest. He drew them a map and provided detailed directions to her location. When investigators asked whether Meredith's body would be intact, Hilton told them that her head would be missing and marked a separate location on the map, roughly a mile away from the rest of her remains. Given the complexity of the terrain, investigators decided it would be safest and most effective to actually have Gary Hilton Face physically lead them to the scene. While being transported in a sheriff's van, Hilton began describing what had happened. According to his account, he first approached Meredith on the trail after noticing she was alone with her dog and attempted to befriend her. He said she immediately seemed uncomfortable and without warning she took off running from him. Hilton told investigators he then positioned himself along the trail, hid, and waited for her to loop back around. When she did, he jumped out at her with a knife, but Meredith fought back and managed to disarm him because remember, she's trained martial arts. She's trained in martial arts.

[Danielle]

She's trained and she's fighting for her life.

[Cassie]

So after she disarms him, he then pulls out his police baton, which she also disarmed him from. Hilton said Meredith used her martial arts training to fight him aggressively, but he was physically stronger and eventually overpowered her, tying her to a tree. And I think that this is an important time to mention that Gary Hilton was extremely physically fit. It almost feels like he was training for stuff like this. He trail ran. He made sure he made fitness a priority. He was always out on the trails. He knew this terrain really well. And it feels like he was also training for something like this.

[Danielle]

Okay.

[Cassie]

He told investigators that he later led her to his van, where he threatened to kill both her and her dog unless she gave him her ATM pin number. Over the next several days, Meredith repeatedly gave him incorrect numbers, convincing him that he was making mistakes and persuading him to try different ATMs, like trying to alert the banks.

[Danielle]

Like, hey, trying to give a trail. This.

[Cassie]

Yeah, yeah, red flag this. Check this. Very smart she created. But unfortunately, as I mentioned before, that the banks didn't alert authorities to this until a couple days. They didn't figure this out until after the fact.

[Danielle]

But she was trying to breadcrumb. She was any way that she could.

[Cassie]

And this was her life at the line, too. And Gary Hilton admitted that she made him believe that he was truly doing something wrong. He's like, I'm really. I'll try another atm. And he tried several of them because she was so convincing. Hilton also admitted that during this time, because he had her of a period of three days, he admitted that during this time, he did sexually assault her. After three days, Hilton said he drove Meredith to Dawson Forest and told her he was going to let her go. He admitted also that that was always a lie. Instead, he tied her to a tree, killed her with a metal bar, and then decapitated her. Hilton led investigators to the crime scene, and what they found there was beyond disturbing. And there's a documentary that I watched that details this, and it's Wild Crimes. They do a whole season on Gary Hilton and how this unfolded. And they really focus on the investigators here. And in documentary, officers are visibly still shaken from this experience. And they describe the moment that they came across this scene. And even, I mean, this was filmed years later. They're visibly on the verge of tears describing what they came. And their voice, their voices are shaking. And you can see how much this scene really, really affected them. They spoke about stopping at the site to pray for Meredith and for her family and about how the weight of the discovery did not find fully set in until after they had to radio in their findings and actually say what they saw. And I'm not going to go into the whole, I don't think it's necessary.

[Danielle]

I think that we understand what happened, and I think that's enough. Yeah, it's horrifying.

[Cassie]

It's awful. Hilton, by contrast, showed no remorse during the drive back. Investigators recalled that he spoke casually and even bragged about how good he believed he was at what he had done, A stark and unsettling contrast to the devastation that he had left behind. You know, he's like, yeah, did you see how great I did that? And they're like, what the. Like, we just saw the worst scene we've ever seen in our lives. Of course, the community was deeply shaken by the discovery and responded by coming together around Meredith's family. A memorial held in her honor drew hundreds of people, many of whom had never known Meredith in life, but felt compelled to show up, to stand in solidarity and to support her family as part of a wider community. While Gary Hilton was in police custody on January 8, 2008, Jack Bryant's remains were finally found. A person in Nantahela National Forest stumbled across a human skull and called authorities. An autopsy found that he had been killed with a firearm. While Gary Hilton wasn't linked to his murder yet, he was about to be. On January 31, Gary Hilton was found guilty of murdering Meredith and sentenced to life in prison. At the sentencing, Meredith's father addressed the court through tears, describing how Hilton's actions had permanently altered their family. Meredith's mother also spoke, saying that there could never be any true justice because no sentence could ever bring her daughter back. With Meredith's case resolved, investigators turned their attention to the broader picture, now confident that they were dealing with a serial killer who had been deliberately targeting hikers across multiple states. As investigators question Gary Hilton, who consistently bragged about himself during interviews, FBI agents observed from outside the room, watching him on camera in an effort to build a psychological profile and better understand how he operated. They quickly realized that the more they allowed Hilton to talk about himself, the more valuable information he revealed. And Hilton loved to talk about himself. He spoke at length about his childhood, including an incident in which he admitted to shooting his stepfather because he did not like the way his mother was being treated. Although that man did survive, he talked about his time in the army, his obsession with staying physically fit, and how he deliberately trained so he could run trails without drawing attention. Hilton openly stated that he killed for money and boasted about the attention his crimes were receiving. Clearly enjoying the idea of being known.

[Danielle]

I do not buy that he was killing for money.

[Cassie]

Yeah, there was something way sicker than just money. You could rob people for money.

[Danielle]

Yeah. No, no.

[Cassie]

There's something way sicker at play here.

[Danielle]

I'm sure that was, for him, like, a sick added bonus type of thing. But I don't think that was the.

[Cassie]

Yeah, I think he needed money, and he did, and he stole from them because he found an opportunity there. But I think his killing was totally different.

[Danielle]

Do you think that kind of going back to his previous employer, when he asked for money and he was like, Yeah, I have 700 bucks for you. I'll leave it for you in a check. And he never came and got it. Do you think that was because he sensed maybe he was working with the police and it was a setup, or do you think something else happened? Because if you're that desperate for money and someone's giving you 700 free dollars.

[Cassie]

Yeah, I don't know. I've. That was a weird time, because I think Meredith was still in. He still had Meredith at that time when it was going on. So I don't know. Like, something could have happened on that end, or he showed up and he noticed that people were staking it out.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Okay. I just.

[Cassie]

I think.

[Danielle]

I just think it could have happened.

[Cassie]

Yeah, I think either could have happened for sure. Yeah. So Gary Hilton is bragging about everything that he had done. He told investigators that he never had any intention of keeping Meredith alive, saying, quote, once you take someone, you're either killing them or you're getting caught. He also spoke about his love for dogs, though investigators questioned whether that affection was genuine or simply a way for him to appear approachable and harmless to people he encountered on the trails.

[Danielle]

There it is. There it is. Although he did. I'm not trying to give this person any credit at all. I'm just pointing out the obvious, that he didn't harm Ella. Ella was let go.

[Cassie]

Ella was let go. And there was also a point in the documentary where they talk about. He had this. He had. It was like his soul dog that had died, and he buried her remains on a mountain in one of the mountains in a national forest. And police actually used that information to get information out of him because they were like, we're gonna go dig up her remains and throw them out, and you'll. And that convinced him to give more information. Okay, so there's. Like. He does have.

[Danielle]

Okay, that's great.

[Cassie]

You love affection for dogs, but clearly you don't really matter.

[Danielle]

You don't value human life. I don't care if you love dogs or not. Yeah, you know what I mean.

[Cassie]

It's just like, okay, you're sick. You're very sick and up for lots of other reasons that negate liking dogs. Lately I have been more intentional about how I wind down at the end of the day. I wanted something that actually helps me shift out of work mode and interest, not something that leaves me feeling foggy or off the next morning. Adding Sol's out of Office Gummies to my evening routine has been such a simple but noticeable upgrade. Sole makes feeling good simple. They create delicious hemp derived CBD and THC products with clean ingredients, precise dosing and predictable feel good effects so you stay in control of how you feel. Their best selling out of Office Gummies are designed to deliver a customizable calming buzz, whether it's that 1.5mg microdose for a gentle lift or up to 15mg for a deeper, more relaxed experience. If you prefer to sip something, Sol's out of Office Beverage offers the same smooth social vibe in a refreshing, alcohol free drink that works just as well for a quiet night at home as it does for a casual hang. And when it's time for bed, their nightcap gummies help ease you into a deep restorative sleep with a clean, plant powered formula that avoids the grogginess of traditional sleep aids. Everything Sol makes is crafted with wellness in mind. Organically farmed USA grown hats, vegan gluten free, low sugar and federally legal. You can feel good about what you're putting in your body and how you feel after. Give yourself the gift of a healthier unwind. Right now, Seoul is offering our audience 30 off your entire order. Go to getsoul.com and use the code NPAD. That's getsoul.com promo code NPAD for 30% off.

[Danielle]

Foreign.

[Cassie]

To Hilton speak and observing his demeanor deeply unsettled investigators. His confidence and of course his lack of remorse raised questions that Meredith may have not been his first victim. And given the number of unresolved missing prison cases in wooded areas, investigators really believed that he was likely involved in other cases, specifically the two others that I've mentioned. Of course, one case in particular remained a huge priority, the murder of John and Irene Bryant. Despite his willingness to talk about many aspects of his life and other crimes, Hilton refused to discuss the Bryants at all. Because of that silence, investigators focused on establishing a detailed timeline placing him in specific locations and gathering corroborating evidence through that work. Investigators determined that Hilton had been present in western North Carolina in the weeks surrounding the Bryant's disappearance. He was known to camp in remote areas of Pisgah national forest and to move frequently between campsites along forest service roads. His pattern involved staying in one area briefly before relocating, Often crossing county or state lines. He did not register at campgrounds and primarily relied on dispersed camping areas, Leaving little official records of his movements. Later, witnesses came forward reporting encounters with a man matching Hilton's descriptions Near trailheads and forest roads in the region During October of 2007, when the Bryants went missing. These encounters often involved brief conversations, Casual requests for directions, and interactions consistent with someone who appeared familiar with the area and comfortable moving through the forest. Because Hilton had no fixed address, Tracking his movements depend heavily on witness statements, Public tips, and reconstruction after his arrest Rather than real time records. Investigators began piecing together his travel history by reviewing vehicle records, Campsite reports, ATM activity, and statements from people who had crossed paths with him. That reviewed showed Hilton had been in the same region as both the Bryants and Cheryl's Dunlap at the time that they disappeared. Investigators also confirmed that Cheryl's blood had been found inside Hilton's van. With Hilton now identified as a suspect in both Georgia and North Carolina, investigators in Florida formally reopened the case of Cheryl Hodges Dunlap, who had vanished after hiking in Apalachicola national forest in December of 2007. Records place Hilton in northern Florida during that same time period, and investigators revisited reports of a man matching his description in and around the forest in the days leading up to her disappearance. And, of course, there were striking similarities. She was alone. There were witnesses to a strange man that was around the yellow jacket, the ATM use, There were photos of him on the camera. So it was very clear that there was a tie here. Eventually, Gary Hilton was brought to trial and entered guilty pleas across multiple jurisdictions. In north carolina, he pleaded guilty in federal court to kidnapping and murder charges related to the deaths of John and Irene Bryant, the elderly couple who disappeared in October 2007. He was sentenced to four consecutive life terms. During those proceedings, Hilton offered an apology, which the Bryant family rejected outright. Holly Bryant, the couple's daughter, addressed Hilton directly, saying, for him to laughingly say he's sorry is a slap in the face. He beat my mother in the head. He shot my father in the head. Sorry is not enough. Her brother, Bob Bryant, was even more blunt, later saying, I want to put a bullet in his head In Florida. Hilton was convicted of first degree murder, kidnapping, and grand theft for the December 2007 killing of 46 year old nurse Cheryl Hodges Dunlap. He was sentenced to death for that crime, a result investigators in Georgia had long anticipated. Today, Gary Hilton remains on death row at Union Correctional Institution in Rayford, Florida, without an execution date. And I wish I could say that this story concluded there. But in the years following Hilton's conviction, the legal consequences extended beyond sentencing and into broader questions about evidence, privacy and public access. After Hilton pleaded guilty in Georgia for the murder of Meredith Emerson, interest in the case did not fade. In 2009, Hustler magazine filed open records requests seeking access to crime scene and autopsy photographs related to Meredith's death. And just as a reminder, magazine is like a pornographic magazine.

[Danielle]

Yeah. I'm. I don't want to be like, I'm familiar, but I know.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

So why, though?

[Cassie]

They wanted images to blush of her crime scene. Yes.

[Danielle]

I still don't understand.

[Cassie]

I don't understand why they would do that or want that, but they did, and they requested it, and I just thought that that was absolutely disgusting, especially.

[Danielle]

For the family, especially from that publication. I'm sorry, but like.

[Cassie]

Yes.

[Danielle]

Not again. Anything against, like, whatever. Do whatever you want.

[Cassie]

It's not in the same realm. It's not in the same.

[Danielle]

There's just no crop. What is the point where there. What is the crop crossover here?

[Cassie]

The crossover is that Meredith was found nude and they published nude photos, which is so up.

[Danielle]

I did not know this. I've never heard of this before.

[Cassie]

It's so.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Cassie]

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation, of course, denied the request, and Hustler actually appealed.

[Danielle]

What? Yeah.

[Cassie]

So if you've ever wanted to boycott a brand, Hustler is.

[Danielle]

Do that. Yeah. Oh, my God. Way to, like, double down on something that you should not have even touched.

[Cassie]

That's disgusting. Yeah. In March 2010, a judge with this Georgia Superior Court issued a temporary restraining order preventing the release of any images showing Meredith Emerson unclothed or dismembered. DeKalb County Superior Court Judge Dan Kersey ruled that releasing the photographs would cause irreparable harm to Meredith's family. Around the same time, the state senator, Bill Hamrick publicly condemned the request, calling the potential release an unquestionable offense to Meredith and her family.

[Danielle]

I just don't understand what. I'm sorry. This is just. This entire episode is upsetting and shocking on many levels across the board, but this is insane to me because. What is the. What is the reason? Like, what Were they? Clearly. They want this so bad. What was. Who in good faith and conscious and as a human being, can stand on that other side and be like, no, actually, we're appealing this because we really want to publish the photos of your deceased, dismembered, and murdered daughter. Who says that?

[Cassie]

It's so. I. I don't even.

[Danielle]

Because there's people behind that brand. You know, we're saying, oh, Hustler did this. It's like, yes.

[Cassie]

But there's people who made these decisions behind that, that. Who are fighting for this. And it's all. It's clickbaity.

[Danielle]

It's.

[Cassie]

People want them to buy their magazine. People like dark things.

[Danielle]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Cassie]

It's a money grab. And it. With. No. With just. No.

[Danielle]

Also with the whole thing of being a pornographic magazine. It's like, that's feeding into the sexual fantasy of harming women that Gary Hilton participated in. Oh, my God. Okay.

[Cassie]

It's just like.

[Danielle]

I'm sorry. I'll let you move on. I just. This is astounding for me.

[Cassie]

Yeah. When I read this, I was like, what in the actual.

[Danielle]

And what year was this? 2012.

[Cassie]

2010.

[Danielle]

2010. Okay.

[Cassie]

Yeah. Within days of Hustler's appeal, Georgia lawmakers acted quickly. Legislation was introduced and passed to block the release of certain crime scene and autopsy photographs without the consent of. Of the victim, their surviving family members, or a court order. The legislation that followed became known as the Meredith Emerson Memorial Privacy Act. The law exempts certain graphics crime scene and autopsy images from Georgia's open record laws. While law enforcement officers, attorneys, and credentialed journalists may still view these materials for legitimate purposes, they are not permitted to copy, publish, or distribute them.

[Danielle]

I was just thinking, you know, like, if this is coming from, I don't know, a forensics institute that is going to utilize them for teaching purposes or training purposes or something. But for it to come from Hustler goddamn magazine and to publish it, like.

[Cassie]

It'S not being used as nobody's business. Yeah. It's not being used to craft reference, to try and tie Gary Hilton to other people, to try and get closure for other families. It's nothing like that. It's just like. It's disgusting and it's despicable. And I'm just so happy that Georgia rallied behind this and was like, absolutely not. Actually, the fact that you even requested that, we're going to make a new law that makes it so no one can ever request something like this ever again.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Like, that was messed up. But thank you for Doing it so we can like just slam this back in your face. Yeah, Sorry. Okay. Sorry. I just. That is.

[Cassie]

Physically ill thinking about it.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Cassie]

The act marked a significant shift in how states balance public access with victims rights. In the past, courts often favored broad public release. But advances in technology have changed what access means. Crime scene images were once difficult to reproduce and limited in reach. Today, high resolution photography, television, social media and body camera footage makes graphic images easy to share and nearly impossible to contain. Once released, the Emerson act places control over those images in the hands of victims families, rather than leaving the decision entirely to the state or to the media. Despite the tragedy of the case, investigators have consistently credited Meredith Emerson with playing a crucial role in stopping Gary Hilton. Her presence on the trail and her kindness made her memorable to witnesses, allowing them to describe not only her, but the man who was following her. Her resistance during the abduction left behind critical evidence that later helped secure his conviction. And by repeatedly giving Hilton incorrect ATM pin numbers and persuading him to move from machine to machine, she knowingly narrowed the areas where he was operating, drawing public attention that ultimately led to his arrest. In the documentary, officers speak openly about the anguish they still carry, knowing they were so close but did not reach her in time. They recognize that Meredith's actions, taken while risking her own life, were likely meant to help law enforcement find her and stop him. While they live with that regret, investigators also believe Meredith prevented Hilton from killing anyone else. Hilton himself stated that if he had not been arrested, he would have continued. That admission has fueled concern that there may be additional victims whose cases remain unresolved. Some of those cases have been discussed publicly over the years. One of the earliest is Judy Smith, a 51 year old hiker whose remains were found in Pisgah National Forest in 1997, the same forest where Irene Bryant would be discovered a decade later. Jason Andrew Knapp, a 20 year old Clemson University student, disappeared in 1998 after his car was found abandoned at Table Rock State park in South Carolina. Patricia Andres, a 38 year old hairdresser, vanished from her salon in cumming, Georgia in 2004. And Hilton was known to be in the area at the time without a confirmed alibi. Rosanna Milani, a hiker from Miami, disappeared in December 2005 while vacationing in Cherokee, North Carolina. A store clerk later reported selling a backpack to Milani and an older man resembling Hilton shortly before she vanished. There are other cases as well. Michael Scott Lewis, a 27 year old Florida man, was found dismembered in Tomoka River in ornon Beach in December 2007. Hilton was in the area during that period, though investigators have stated he is not the only suspect. Melissa Witt, a 19 year old woman from Arkansas, disappeared from a bowling alley parking lot in 1990 and was later found murdered in a rural area, with some investigators noting similarities to Hilton's known crimes. Levi Frady, an 11 year old boy abducted and murdered in Forsyth county, Georgia in 1997, has also been mentioned in speculative discussions. Though Hilton has never been publicly named as a suspect. These cases remain open. If any information, no matter how small or uncertain it may seem, investigators encourage you to speak up. Tips can be submitted to the FBI by phone at 1-800- call FBI or online at tips.FBI.gov Information can also be shared with local or state law enforcement agencies in the jurisdiction where a disappearance or death occurred, including the Bureau of Investigation in Georgia, North Carolina or Florida, because those were the places that Gary Hilton was known to be operating. But that extends to all 50, 50 states. And that is my story of the National Forest serial killer.

[Danielle]

Damn. Well, that is really hard to hear all of that. That last hour was rough and I'm just so. He hasn't said that he was linked to any of the other. It's not like, okay, I'll tell you more information. He's just kind of. But he was very. He did say he was guilty of all the ones that he was. Yeah, the initial four that you covered. Okay.

[Cassie]

Yes, he has. He admitted to those. He was found guilty on all those. But these other ones, investigators suspect he could be linked to, but they just haven't been able to tie into it.

[Danielle]

God, what a piece of. And he's still, he's still alive. Yeah.

[Cassie]

And on death row. And I hope, like I hope that at some point if he is involved in these other murders, he decides to come clean and give those families closure. Because I mean, 1997 and early 2000s was a long time ago now and this is a really long time for these families to not know what happened to their loved ones.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Wow.

[Cassie]

Stories like this make me want to do. I hate stories like this and they're so awful. And I just think about thinking about Meredith. I remember extensively watching on the news when she disappeared. And it makes me want to take all of our listeners and go to like a group defensive training to just people up that do like this. Like if anyone attacks me in the woods, I want to be murder you back. You know, like I wanna. It just makes me want to take every single woman out and Go do defensive training. So we can just up for people who try to do stuff like this.

[Danielle]

Well, it's interesting you say that. So we are, we're recording this shortly before we do it. But for every month we do for Patreon, we do a live stream and every month is different. And this month we're doing a 2026 bingo card like making event. And I was writing my list because we need what like 24, 4 26, whatever the amount of little squares are. My God, that's a lot of stuff. And so I've been thinking about it and one of them I wrote, take a def. Self defense class.

[Cassie]

Yeah, that's when I think I'm gonna put that on mine too.

[Danielle]

Just because you never know. And it's better to know some basics. Even if like, you know, she was at the top of her game with self defense and she fought like hell. And there's. If somebody is larger, more physically fit, overpowering you, there's only so much you can do. However, you have a fighting chance and you can fuck them up, you know, as best as you can. And I just remember being a child and my dad, like one of the biggest pieces of advice he ever gave me and kind of like drilled it into my head over and over is if you were to encounter someone who's trying to do you harm or abduct you. And this is as I'm, I'm a kid, you know, I'm like what, seven, eight years old. He's not going to be like, you have to, you know, defend. He, he didn't say you have to defend yourself. He, he basically was like, act like you're insane. Kick, scream, bite. Father, eyes out. Scream, act like you're insane. You know, draw attention, flip the out and make this person scared of you.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

You know, because at that point in time as a child, that was my best chance with what I never went to any sort of training or anything like that, but he's like, you fight like hell.

[Cassie]

I remember as a kid being told to yell like, this is not my parent, this is not my mom, this is not my dad, whoever it was. And also screaming and making a fit. And yeah, yeah, I did do it once actually. I was not being abducted, but I thought I was being abducted. Oh, Jesus.

[Danielle]

I was like, this is just coming up now. Okay.

[Cassie]

I was not being abducted in this poor woman. So I, my mom got us a babysitter for after school because she worked after, for a few hours before or after we got out and we were going to A new babysitter. And we had met her, gone to her house, whatever. I had completely forgotten who this woman was. And she came as she was supposed to, to pick us up from school, and I had forgotten. And she pulled up and she's like, hi, like, Cassie and Trevor, because my brother's name is Trevor, like, here to pick you up. And I was like, I don't know you. You're a stranger. And I ran into the principal's office at school, and I told them that someone was trying to kidnap us, and they had to call my mom. And my mom had to be like, no, that's her babysitter.

[Danielle]

Okay, well, you were doing what you were taught, so.

[Cassie]

Yes.

[Danielle]

It's always hard to end these because it's like, well, now what? Now we have to let you go into the world with all of that really awful information.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

But we have a positive note to end on.

[Cassie]

Yes, we do. We have a very positive note to end on, and I think a good way to end the episode that I'm sure we're all feeling really down about right now. I'll let Danielle tell you the honors. The honors go to you. Yeah.

[Danielle]

Okay. So as we kind of alluded to in our anniversary episode, at the very end, we told you that we were in the final stages of planning a collaborative trip with Tooth and Claw. And we've. We've come to the final stage. This is it. We're ready to tell you. We're so, so excited for this. It's been a long time coming. And you might remember me saying, wow, you know, I loved Antarctica. It was great. But I feel like I have to go to the Arctic now, You know? Like, I feel like it's only fair.

[Cassie]

That I see both poles.

[Danielle]

I. I came to the bottom. I want to go to the top. And then you also may know that Cassie's bucket list destination country is Norway. Is Norway. So, yeah, we are doing a group Tooth and Claw National Park After Dark collaborative trip to Svalbard, and it is going to be in June of 2027.

[Cassie]

So, yeah, plenty of time to plan. Get ready if you want to come join us. We are taking a cruise to Svalbard. There are polar bears there that we might see. Not up close. Knock on wood. We might see them. Can't guarantee it, but it would be really cool. It's summertime, so we'll have daylight for hours. It's going to be beautiful. We'll see fjords. We fly into Copenhagen. I mean, it is a really cool trip that we're launching. But there is one caveat to that, I guess, is that outsiders get. Outsiders get first dibs. Yeah, outsiders. And Tooth and Claw. Patreon. If you're on Patreon, you get first dibs. And we are going to open it up to the general community. But if you know either of our trips, they sell out pretty quick.

[Danielle]

They do.

[Cassie]

You are interested. You gotta. You gotta hop on one of our Patreons.

[Danielle]

We don't care who's. Honestly, we do care whose.

[Cassie]

We want it to be ours.

[Danielle]

Well, that's. But however you can get on a strip, do it. So yeah, like Cassie said, we're flying into Copenhagen and it's so cool because. So we're flying into Copenhagen, but then we're taking a separate flight as a group. Like y' all get to Copenhagen however you want to and then as a group, we're flying from there to. I always forget how to say this. I'll let Google say it. Okay, everybody, here we go. Ready? Longyearbyen. Longyearbyen.

[Cassie]

We're going up there.

[Danielle]

It's the northernmost town in the world.

[Cassie]

That's so cool.

[Danielle]

So we're going to fly up there and then we're going to board an expedition vessel similar to the one for Antarctica people, similar to the one we took to Antarctica. And we're going to do a multi day cruise around Svalbard and Wes can talk to us about polar bears and we can have fun.

[Cassie]

There'll be all sorts of little day trips that we can do and little expeditions that we can partake in.

[Danielle]

And yeah, we're going out on Zodiacs. It's going to be so fun. And although our trips sell out really fast, I foresee that happening with this one especially. But the good news is there's more tickets available than normal.

[Cassie]

Because we've ever had.

[Danielle]

Yeah, because it's the dual trip, so we just have more seats available for that. And also because we have quite a number of seats available on the ship, which is also beautiful. Have you seen it? Yeah. Oh my God.

[Cassie]

Oh, it's so pretty. It looks so nice. It's like if you want to be outdoorsy and you want to be cozy, if you want to be bougie, do your skincare and see polar bears, this.

[Danielle]

Is the perfect place to do it. Yeah. So anyways, all of the details are available on a page that we have. We will link in the episode description. It is also going to be available on our link tree situation on Instagram, on both of our pages. And you don't need to be a Patreon member to see the details. But Patreon members will have exclusive first dibs on tickets once they go on sale. But all the information about the itinerary, the ship details, the cabin differences, there's different cabins you can book. Like all the info you would want is available to you and you can look at it right now if you're interested.

[Cassie]

Yeah. So cool. Well, on that note, thanks everyone for hanging out for another week of episodes. We'll be back next week. Hopefully we see you in Norway, in Svalbard.

[Danielle]

I can't even believe it.

[Cassie]

Can't even. You got plenty. 2027, baby, here we come. We've been saying. I've been saying I'm gonna get to Norway since we started this podcast five years ago. So the time has come.

[Danielle]

Next year is your year. Do you think you're gonna. I don't even want to ask, actually. I don't want to jinx it.

[Cassie]

Okay.

[Danielle]

The northern lights. Do you think you're going to see? Or is it summer? But even a little tiny. A little.

[Cassie]

It doesn't even get dark out. How are we going to see them?

[Danielle]

It gets kind of.

[Cassie]

The sun never sets in June. Where am I going to see them?

[Danielle]

I don't know. I'm trying to be positive.

[Cassie]

You're being unrealistic.

[Danielle]

Oh, let me live. Okay, we'll see everyone next week.

[Cassie]

Yeah, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye.

[Danielle]

See ya. Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark book club, live streams.

[Cassie]

Discord, and much more.

[Danielle]

More. If you prefer to watch our episodes video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and X National Park After Dark.

[Cassie]

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. The new cross training series balances your workouts with 15 plus workout types for endless movements on and off your equipment.

[Danielle]

Stay motivated with weekly personalized plans that.

[Cassie]

Guide you from beginner to expert and push past your goals with routines tailored to you. Get the new cross training series Term Supply Dog Grooming Genius here.

[Danielle]

Most people see a busy dog salon, but I see operational excellence thanks to Genius from Global Payments Scheduling, personalized checkouts. Instant absolutely genius. From game day crowds to every groomer in this shop, genius keeps everything flowing seamlessly. Schnauzer is styled flawless execution, big league reliability for any business, that's genius.