← Navigating Adult ADHD
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- [00:04]
A
You are listening to the Navigating Adult ADHD podcast with your ADHD coach and expert, Xena. Hello, my friend. We today have got a guest episode and I'm so excited to share this incredible, raw, real epic conversation with the very first male guest we've had on the podcast who was a fellow late diagnosed ADH deer. So I know this is going to be incredibly relatable. And Matt holds nothing back. So we get so many epic insights in how he re into how he works with his brain. So, my friends, I'm so excited to share this with you. All right, let me tell you a little bit about what to expect. Okay, so as I said, Matt is a late diagnosed Adhder. He was diagnosed at age 40, right. And that is when a lifetime of struggles really made sense to him. He's going to share with us the role sport played in masking his ADHD and how that became his outlet. We talk about his international career in indoor cricket and how that professional level sport helped to shape him. We're going to dive into why he sees ADHD as his edge and how he has gamified his life to stay engaged and achieve his goals. Okay. We also talk about the grief, the growth, the self discovery that followed that late diagnosis. We talk about curiosity, presence and how that helps him to navigate the adhd. So things like the emotions, the parenting, those kind of challenges that come up in life. So we actually in this episode, we just dive straight in. Right? There's no kind of introduction or anything. So just give me a moment. I want to share a little tiny snippet into who Matt is with you. Okay? So Matt Henderson, or Hendo is he as he is often referred to by his friends. Matt is a health and performance coach and he has never fit the mold, okay? And that is exactly his edge. So he was once branded the troublemaker who pushed back and Matt has turned that same wiring into a strength. So today he helps high achieving professionals to unlock energy, resilience and clarity by reframing life not as a grind, but as a game worth playing. So I will share share with you in the link, sorry, in the show notes below how you can connect with Matt, because you are likely going to want to do that after this conversation. You can connect with him on Instagram, you can reach out to him on his website, his email, et cetera, and you can hear a little bit about a little bit more about him. A fuller introduction in the show notes. Okay, now this conversation, I have to tell you, this conversation was so good that after we recorded this for you. We actually continued chatting. Him and I keep chatting for, like, another 30 minutes. And part way through, he's like, man, we should hit record. And so we did. We hit record. And we continued to record the conversation that we had after this episode, going a little deeper into some of the things that we talked about and just kind of like picking each other's brains. I am going to release that as a bonus episode. I think it's another 20 minutes of audio so that if you really enjoy this one, you're definitely going to want to go and listen to that, because it was kind of like. Like just. Yeah, just really diving deep and just challenging each other's brains and sharing stuff, and it was really cool. Okay, so if you enjoy this episode, go and check out the bonus episode of us chatting on after this. All right, so let's just get into it. All right, so welcome, Matt, to Navigating Adult ADHD Podcast. We are so stoked to have you here with us today, and I would love for us to start with what led you to get diagnosed. Like, tell us a little bit about your story, your history, and how your ADHD diagnosis came about.
- [04:09]
B
Yeah, I. I vividly remember it. We'd moved here to Tauranga at this point, and. And at that stage, I'm 40 years of age, still going through life, and sometimes it's a struggle, sometimes it's fun. But it was Mandy who sent me an Instagram post from this lady down in Otago who listed in a little short story all these things that she does and realized it was because of her ADHD that she loses her keys, forgets what she's doing, misplaces there, gets distracted, forgot she was putting her shoes away and starts making a beard and all those sorts of things. And when I read the many mentioned, sent it to me, she's like, you do every single one of these things. And I watched. I was just like. And I'm not even joking. The. The moment was almost like, hallelujah. Like, okay, yeah, I do all that stuff. But now I know why. Because it was just such a frustration for me, for the people that I live with, my family, like, at work. Like, why do these things keep happening? So it was a real eye opener. And I think maybe, like, a lot of people at my age who stumble across this, the next three to four weeks was just in YouTube every night, learning every single thing. Yeah, it was mad. Like, I'd be up until 2 o' clock in the morning looking at this and looking at that. It Just, yeah, it connected a lot of dots for me. So it was really thankful to find that. And that's the beautiful thing of social media, I suppose.
- [05:40]
A
How old were you then?
- [05:43]
B
I pretty sure I was 40 at the time.
- [05:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 40, yeah, yeah. I'm curious, like if you want to share with everybody a little bit about like your background, your career and all of that and, and why you weren't sort of maybe searching for answers or, or look like why you hadn't discovered that earlier. What do you, what are your thoughts on that?
- [06:04]
B
That's a, that's a really great question in my mind. Immediately went to. We got a, a strong history in our family of mental health issues and I definitely been through it myself. Where was going through depression or having issues around that, not feeling so good about myself, low self worth. And I suppose for most of my life I went down that path thinking it was a mental health issue and that it might have been hereditary and just part of my, my makeup. I think why I was so elated to receive this diagnosis is actually probably those things were a symptom of not understanding that I had adhd and everything that was happening in my life had more to do with that than opposed to I've got a chemical imbalance in my brain. And so yeah, I think that's why it was a hallelujah moment for me because now I didn't feel like there was a massive problem. I'm just built a bit different, so that was a big part of it. And yeah, I've medicated. I think that feeling with a lot of different stuff, like when I was a young kid, it was just sport. I couldn't stay in school in class too long. Like a lot of people with adhd, there's a couple of classes I love and they usually meant that there was a couple of really cool teachers. That keeps me engaged.
- [07:27]
A
Yeah.
- [07:27]
B
But being a border at school, like I got to play sport all the time and that was my outlet. That's where I could focus. That's where I felt my best. And that continued on as I got older. I think the biggest struggle was starting a working life where you're sort of forced to do some stuff, which made it a little bit more difficult. But yeah, but yeah, sport was my savior, I suppose, and that kept me grounded. And when I was playing well, I was unstoppable. When I wasn't playing so well, I wasn't going so well. Then life got a little bit hard. Yeah, I think that probably sums it up fairly well. The, the 40 years before the diagnosis, anyway.
- [08:07]
A
Yeah. And so sport. Am I correct in thinking that like sport was like your full time, like job? Like that was what you did full time for a living, you played professional?
- [08:18]
B
No, it wasn't, it wasn't professional. I started out pretty well and outdoor cricket and this before it really took off to be a professional sport at that point, like early 2000s. But I stumbled across, I was on a cricket tour, outdoor tour in Australia and I was sitting on the back of the bus with a teammate who was on the New Zealand indoor cricket team and I'm like, what, what is indoor cricket? And, and New Zealand has a team. And anyway, so he, he invited me to come down and play a tournament and I instantly loved the game because the fast paced nature, a game only takes an hour and a half. Perfect for my like ability to concentrate.
- [08:54]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [08:55]
B
And outdoor cricket, like I could play against black caps for about 45 minutes and be really good and be at their level, but then I wouldn't be able to stay in longer. So indoor cricket was better and that got me around the world, playing internationally for, for many years and made some cool contacts, whether it be in England, Sri Lanka, uae, South Africa, Australia. So my job as personal trainer or a strength coach really funded that lifestyle, I suppose, and I just love doing that. Yeah, yeah.
- [09:26]
A
So were you like a personal trainer and strength coach whilst you were touring, traveling, playing all over the world?
- [09:35]
B
Yeah, started, started as a plumber working for my dad. He just had a business and that was perfect. So if I didn't want to work, I wanted to train. I feel bad for saying it, but he's passed away now, so it's okay. But I would sneak off from work and go and train, you know, and it's easy to take three weeks off and go to England and play. Then when I got back I was like, I love being in the gym, I want to learn that and I love helping people and coaching. So. And I was self taught in indoor cricket as well, so I learned pretty quickly how to help people because I think a big part of it is like how do you learn more than what do you need to learn? So I love that part of it and I think I'll always coach because of that.
- [10:17]
A
I'm curious, like one of the things you and I have talked about is how like it is common for people who play a lot of sport, right. Whether that's their career or like that's something that they do a lot of. Right. They're very physically active. How that can often, I don't know if hides the right word, but like sort of mask their diagnosis in some way. Because when we are being super physically active, right, when we have that kind of competition, we've got that, you know, all of the dopamine, the endorphins, all of this sort of stuff, like we're boosting the brain chemicals, right. Like, we are getting the things that we need to help us function well or thrive. So therefore, you know, there are a lot of people who are diagnosed later in life when like they get an injury or, you know, they, they can't for some reason, like, they might retire from, from what they've been doing, what have you. Like, that's quite a common thing.
- [11:10]
B
Do you relate to that, you know, more about it? Because I suppose I can only really speak from my own personal experience. But, yeah, the big lesson I'm probably adopting now, like four years post diagnosis and learning about it and understanding myself is, yeah, my life was gamified when I was a cricketer. And when something's gamified. Yeah, when something's gamified for me, then I'm. I love it. Like, what's the next step? Let's go. Like, yeah, I understand it has something to do with the dopamine hit, etc, but don't think about it as much as chemically or as mechanically like that anymore. If I've got a goal, it's like, how can I make it a game so I can stay engaged? And indoor cricket and going through the levels and playing club cricket and going into international, then traveling the world, playing different places, that gamified life for me.
- [11:59]
A
Yeah.
- [12:00]
B
So, yeah, I work really hard on trying to still gamify my life, whether it be my finances or business or now I'm playing golf. Like, how do I get better? And that's how I stay engaged.
- [12:10]
A
Yeah, I love that. I love that way of approaching it. Like, yeah, life was gamified. So how can we approach our goals through that same lens? Yeah.
- [12:20]
B
And like, everything can be broken down if the. My mind definitely. And I would assume with ADHD as well, like, we can absolutely overthink and think about every detail and put too much thought into the process and I'm just better when I'm going, okay, what's the next part of this? Like, what am I going after? Like, do that.
- [12:42]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:43]
B
So I think that's a really big part of it.
- [12:46]
A
Yeah, yeah. What's next? Instead of looking too far ahead. Yeah, yeah.
- [12:50]
B
What's important now? What's important next? That's how you win. What's important now? What's important next? I want to notice myself going down that little destructive little pattern that we can do. Like, I've got a little. Few circuit breakers in my life now that go. Oh, that's right. Okay, come on, come back to now.
- [13:08]
A
Yeah.
- [13:08]
B
The goal in life is to be as present as possible, and that's where the good stuff happens. So what's important now?
- [13:14]
A
I love that. I'm just going to repeat it for everyone listening. The win. Right. W I n. What's important next or what's important now?
- [13:21]
B
Yeah, what's important now then? What's important? And I don't need to go too much than that, but I still have, like. I still have moments. I've. I still have a lot of support around me to snap me back into those spaces and.
- [13:35]
A
Yeah.
- [13:35]
B
But now what I love is I'm not in that overthinking, struggling pattern for weeks on end. It might be a couple of days, but it's never a week now.
- [13:43]
A
Yeah.
- [13:44]
B
Which is massively helpful. I might have a. I might have a bad day, but I won't have a bad week or a bad month.
- [13:50]
A
Yeah. Tell me, like, before you were diagnosed, so you said, like, age 40 when Mandy, your wife, sent you. Right. So, like a social media thing that just really was you all over. Right. What were you struggling with then? Like, what was life like for you then?
- [14:10]
B
That's such a good question. And immediately my mind goes to a deeper space, like, I suppose at the age of 40 and finishing and stopping that thing, that gave me some flow in life in terms of sports. I was just really struggling with who I was and what I was about and what I wanted to do. And then I. I suppose I'd overthink that a lot.
- [14:31]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [14:32]
B
I tried to go back to sport, thinking maybe I just need some more sport or whatever.
- [14:36]
A
Yeah.
- [14:38]
B
The. I think the key, which I'm starting to realize now for myself, is that I've got a system in my brain that's pretty cool. And if I use it the right way, life's pretty awesome.
- [14:54]
A
Yeah.
- [14:55]
B
So I don't know if I see a question. This is where my brain went with that. Like, I didn't know I had this at 40, so I didn't know what the problem was, and I knew there was a problem, but I didn't know how to fix it. And you asked me a question earlier, before. I think one reason I got so good at indoor cricket was I decided if I want to get good at it. I'm going to go get help and support from the people that are the best at it.
- [15:23]
A
Yeah.
- [15:23]
B
So I always gravitated, like, who's the best coach? Where can I get the best information? Like, I don't want to be like everyone else, so want to do something different. And I suppose I applied the same logic to this. Learning about ADHD and my brain and what I need to do next. I think that's critical.
- [15:39]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you, you know, with that. That awareness that, oh, this is what I've been, you know, working with or struggling with my whole life. It's been adhd. You've just run with it. Okay, now I know what it is. How do I work with it? What do I do? Like, how do I maximize this?
- [15:58]
B
Don't get me wrong, though. I know straight away, like, there's. And in some ways I'm still going through it. There's an absolute grief process of this. Like, obviously, my son's just being diagnosed with ADHD, he's 8 years old. And my brain every now and then goes, oh, God, like, if only I'd known back then, like, how different my life could have been. Yeah, there's still. Yeah, I can feel it now. There's still those moments where I go back going, oh, man, like, so much of my life was so hard, but it's also because of that hardness that I'm the person I am today. So if I snap back into that going, if I didn't have that, I wouldn't be me. You know, I wouldn't have got. Been able to learn about myself or experience the world the way I am because of it. So I'd just be hugely grateful that I've found out now.
- [16:43]
A
Yeah. And I think because you have that knowledge now, you get to support your son through that and also do things differently with him.
- [16:51]
B
Yeah, I'm excited to learn because I. I didn't even contemplate it in my head. Someone I made, another friend asked me about a year ago who had their child, was diagnosed with it. And, you know, what I could recommend to help is I wouldn't have a first clue about doing it as a kid at that age. I'm still trying to work it out now. I've only just found out, so I'm really excited to go through this process with them. I'm glad that we've found out as parents, because I feel like we've known for a while, but it hasn't been solidified and now we can look at doing things A little bit differently with him and give him a different experience.
- [17:25]
A
Yeah, yeah. Tell me this. What does ADHD mean to you?
- [17:35]
B
Oh, it's just like, it's a. It's just a system. It's a. I'm a strength and conditioning coach. I look to look at the body like a biological system. So, like, how if I want to work with someone and get the best out of them, if I know how they work, I'm going to be able to do that. So ADHD for me is just. It's the system that I work with and, like, how do I maximize it? That's how I think about it now. It's how I think about everything. Like when I was a cricketer, how do I get better? Well, this is the skill I need in front of me. How do I get that skill? Okay, sweet. When I'm playing an international, that's going to be tested under pressure. So how do I train that under pressure so it doesn't fold in that moment? So I don't know. My brain is just constantly going, okay, this is what I got. Like, how do we maximize it? Like, that's a gift.
- [18:18]
A
I think one of the things that you do as well, and I love this, is like, you experiment with a lot of things. Like, let's try this. Does this work? Okay, let's tweak that. Let's try this. Does this work?
- [18:29]
B
Yeah. There's no rulebook or playbook or exact system to work this out. And now you say that, like, I suppose in this process I've learned and realized that one of my key values and I think one of my gifts is just how curious I am. And if you can pretty much do everything with a huge amount of curiosity, it opens you up to possibility. When you've got an outcome or a goal that you have to reach, you don't know if you're limiting yourself. You don't know if you're doing it the right way. So stay curious and open and see, like, what comes out the other side. If you put focus and energy into it.
- [19:07]
A
Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I think that that's a shared value that so many ADHDers have, is that curiosity. And when. When we're being curious. Right. We're not judging. And I think that that's so important. Right? Like, there's no judgment and curiosity. It's like seeking to. To learn. You're fascinated. You just want to know more.
- [19:27]
B
Yeah, yeah. Let's find. Let's find out. I mean, life's cool and we've got this massive advantage. We can, our brains connect dots differently to other people. I'm saying I really, I can't speak for all ADHD is and I don't.
- [19:39]
A
Put myself a common thing, right.
- [19:41]
B
Like it's a common thing amongst our.
- [19:42]
A
Community, but we each connect different dots which again is fun.
- [19:46]
B
Yeah, yeah. And like, and don't hamstring that. Like in my life now, I'm like, I'm not going to put a limit on what that looks like. Let's just open up. I had this. I'm coaching a young player who's off to an international competition in two weeks time and he was a bit nervous going, trying to plan it out too much and should I be tapering off now, what's the exact thing I need to do now to make sure in two weeks time when that tournament starts and I'm ready, I'm like, hey mate, just be here, be now, stay present, do the right thing as best as you can now stay open. You haven't, you can't plan for this. There's too many possibilities. Let's just run with it and see what happens.
- [20:24]
A
Yeah. Our brains like love to do that.
- [20:26]
B
Right.
- [20:26]
A
Like it's like we go looking for problems to solve that we don't even have now. Right. We just fly off into the future. Like, what problem do I need to fix that may never happen? Right.
- [20:37]
B
And because it's. You asked me how do I look at ADHD now? But also purely from an evolutionary standpoint, as a human being we're wired to survive, so we're always looking for threat 100. So like, and because our brains work so fast, we're going to overthink that threat in every single dot along the way. And my experience, and I appreciate probably the fact that I got to experience a sport at the highest level under the most amount of pressure is thinking about that way didn't help me in those scenarios.
- [21:13]
A
Oh, hang on, pause, pause for dramatic, dramatic effect. Thinking about it that way didn't help me in those scenarios. In those high pressure scenarios. Yeah, okay, keep going. That was good.
- [21:24]
B
Like if I tried to out think a problem in the future, I wasn't open to what needed to be done right now. Because when someone's bowling you a cricket ball at 150km an hour and there's a few thousand people watching and you've got a very tight window to put a ball so you're safe that you don't lose the World cup in this moment. Yeah, but it's the same with life. Like brain Immediately went, if I drive home and think about every possibility that could happen in that drive home, I'd never get in the car.
- [21:59]
A
Right? You wouldn't cross the road, right?
- [22:03]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because we can hyper focus if, if I can just be present and little tricks on that is like if you're listening to this right now, pick up a cup that's near you and just genuinely feel the cup in your hand. Like all the pressure points. Is it cold, Is it hot? Like that's presence, you know, like you can do it now if your feet are on the floor, like just push your toes into the ground and feel like them moving around and the different pressure points from your outside toe to your inside, that's presence. I try and as much as possible put things in my life to remind myself that if I'm here right now and stay curious, good things happen.
- [22:46]
A
I love that. I think that must help hugely when it comes to your ability to navigate uncomfortable, big, scary, hard, horrible emotions. Right? Your ability to stay present. Because so many of those emotions come from our worry about the future, our anxiety about what could happen, et cetera.
- [23:11]
B
I would say it's the hardest, scariest thing to do.
- [23:16]
A
Say more.
- [23:21]
B
I think trying to be present or working hard to be present is the scariest thing for a lot of people because there's so much uncertainty and that's why we overthink scenarios and stuff because we can't let go enough because of fear. And so I had a recent example. So, yeah, so a couple of months ago my father passed away and knew that going down that, you know, there's a very, there's a good chance that this be this time, it might be next time. But my goal was, you know what, I'm just going to sit there for the however long are there and just try and experience the moment. And that's actually where chatgpt. Chat GBT is very helpful. I didn't try and process it while I was there. Every now and then for a couple of hours, I just leave a little note and then go back and be present. And it was a gift doing that because I was able to really feel and experience the emotions and really process it in real time the way it was. Instead of trying to force it or feel bad or be scared of losing my dad, whatever, I was able to really sit there, be present and have a great time. So back to your question before. Like it must make it easier. No, it's hard and it takes practice, like to genuinely be okay to feel the things that you're Feeling and be as present as you can. But in my experience every time I do it, it reinforces the fact that is the best way to live life and to be open and curious and feel those things, whether they're losing a parent or watching your kid do the monkey bars for the first time and you're just stoked and proud as punch and everything in between.
- [25:01]
A
Yeah.
- [25:02]
B
For so many years I think not knowing I had ADHD and the self belief issues and all that sort of thing stopped me from experiencing those moments to the fullest and now feel like I'm living life just so much better knowing.
- [25:17]
A
Yeah. Wow. I'm curious. I've heard and I, and I don't know much about this from personal experience, but I've heard that as somebody with adhd, the going through the grief process can be incredibly challenging and especially because we experience emotional disregulation. Right. Like we, we feel our emotions so loudly and intensely. What has been your experience, if you don't mind sharing? And I know that that could be a very personal thing.
- [25:51]
B
Yeah. So I suppose the grief around the adhd. But we've had lots of challenges in our family. Like daughter's got a severe neurological condition that makes life challenging. It was I found out in and around Covid where I just sold a business, started an online business and that disappeared in the space of a month and then I had no inc. And we're having challenges raising kids because we've got a severely hampered one, we've got two others that we want to put the 11 time into like this. It's incredibly challenging and there's got to be moments where there's grief and maybe it's taking me longer. I'm probably still processing the fact that I found this out about myself, if I'm honest.
- [26:34]
A
Yeah.
- [26:35]
B
But it's just part of life and I think the more you can speak out and search for help and talk to people about it, the better.
- [26:43]
A
Yeah.
- [26:47]
B
I know that even just speaking to you now over this is going to be hugely therapeutic for me because I'm speaking it out and speaking the truth and go, oh yeah, that's right. Like it's so cool to share that now. That's what I'm feeling.
- [26:58]
A
Yeah.
- [26:59]
B
So yes, it's not easy and it's hard and it's not like it's not going to happen again. I'm going to experience so much grief in my life like we all do, but we also going to experience some amazing stuff as well. So yeah, it's just part of our own little story that we get to experience in this 80, 90 years that we get to be on Earth.
- [27:19]
A
You know, I think that's one of the things I really admire about you too, is your willingness to like a be curious and learn, but also your willingness to be vulnerable.
- [27:30]
B
In.
- [27:31]
A
In an attempt to better understand yourself or, or connect with others or normalize someone else's experience. Like, I think that that's something that you. A gift that you really offer is like, you will just be really open about your own experience. And I think that is huge and helps so many people. I don't know if you're aware of that, but I just wanted to highlight it.
- [27:55]
B
Thank you. Yeah, like, I don't. It's not something I'm active. I'm really thinking about it actively, but I suppose I. It's. Oh, maybe I do. I don't know. Because I learned it in cricket. I had some moments where in front of everyone, I failed miserably on the biggest stage. And it's an awful feeling and you just want to go high. I remember a moment in Australia, one of the first people. I think I'm the first person ever to be an overseas player to come into Australia and plan that competition at their first class level. So I'm playing for New South Wales. I've just come off a World cup where I was MVP of the World cup. So people knew who I was and I've showed up to this country and I felt like all eyes were on me. And I played well and really helped our team to get to the final for the first time in years. And then completely went missing in the final. Got out like four times. I just couldn't. I never felt pressure like it in my entire life. And all I remember is hiding under the stands after I batted like with my head in my hands and going, yeah. And you can go two ways in that moment. You can say to yourself, oh, no, that's just too hard. I haven't got it. I'm just not good enough. I don't want to experience again. And you can stop or you can go. That was interesting. Why did that happen? What I need to do to step into that stage again and be able to overcome that?
- [29:26]
A
Yeah.
- [29:26]
B
And I think in the next World Cup, I was able to do that under. I argued that I felt more pressure in this certain game and was able to have a completely different outcome because I was okay to be. I was okay to feel terrible, but still try and be here right now to do what I know that I can do.
- [29:48]
A
It's so interesting hearing you and talking about, like, your willingness to, to feel it. Right. And be vulnerable and talk about it, etc. Like, I think this is where gender often kind of shows up or where there's that whole kind of stereotype of, you know, you've got to be seen to be strong, you can't be weak. Right. Like, vulnerability is a, is a sign of weakness. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on that.
- [30:21]
B
Straight away? My, like, I'm at a point in my life where I don't care what other people think.
- [30:27]
A
Nice.
- [30:28]
B
I do, but I don't. Like.
- [30:30]
A
Yeah.
- [30:31]
B
If someone asked me a question, I'm just going to be honest and I'm not going to film myself too, that that thing didn't happen or that I don't feel anxiety or I don't feel stress. I'm going to ask my questions. Like, I wonder why that happened. What can I do to. Maybe I don't. Sometimes I feel like you don't need to get rid of the stress. You just need to realize that even though you feel like this right now, you can still do what you need to do anyway.
- [31:00]
A
But we spend so much time trying to get rid of it, trying to fix it or solve for it, and it's like, hang on, no, no, I can just do the thing with the stress instead of trying to.
- [31:09]
B
And that's, and it's been all this.
- [31:10]
A
Energy getting rid of it. Whatever.
- [31:13]
B
Yeah, yeah, you'd like, you don't, you don't want to get rid of it. It's a signal to tell you what to do next.
- [31:19]
A
Yeah.
- [31:20]
B
And so the next, that next time I experienced that in that massive game in front of all my family and friends this time World cup in New Zealand. I'm playing for New Zealand. All the pressure's on us. Everyone's looking at us. I was like, okay, this means something. That's why I feel like this.
- [31:35]
A
Yeah.
- [31:36]
B
And okay, so what are we gonna do? Yeah, so no, I, I, I'm working really hard now on realizing that when these things show up, it's not because there's a fault in my system or, or whatever. It's my brain telling me that, yeah, there's something scary in front of me. I want to keep you safe. I was like, yeah, I know you want to keep me safe, man, but actually I want to do this, so I'm going to do it anyway.
- [31:59]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So buckle up, we're going for a ride.
- [32:04]
B
And you know what? Like, yeah, I could fall flat on my face and get out four times in front of 4,000 people and look like a complete idiot. I could also absolutely nail it and win it and everything in between. So let's find out.
- [32:19]
A
Yeah, let's go out there and find out. Yeah, yeah.
- [32:22]
B
Cause no one's. No one. The only person that remembers me getting out four times in that championship 10 years ago was me. So what do I need to work for?
- [32:29]
A
Right?
- [32:30]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [32:32]
A
What do you think helps you to navigate some of the maybe challenges that come along with having adhd?
- [32:46]
B
Can you repeat the question again? Sorry.
- [32:48]
A
So what, what are some of the things that help you to navigate any of the challenges that come with adhd? Another way I could ask that is like, what are some of the ways in which you work with your brain?
- [32:58]
B
Yep, that's a better way. So, yeah, perfect. So, like, I work really hard on a few rituals because I understand how it works. So my brain is faster and focuses more. So I've got to appreciate that for every minute that I'm doing that, I need a minute of nothing.
- [33:17]
A
Okay, hang on a minute. For every minute that I'm like, being fast and focusing on things. Right. My brain's working. I need a minute of nothing.
- [33:27]
B
Yeah, I just like the, the, the go and the break, the recovery, the. The expectation I had for a while was just push, push, push, push, push. And that's what we were brought up on in my ages. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, you never stop working. But that's not how it work. Like, I know that today I'm gonna put in like five or six hours of really hard work. And then this afternoon I'm just gonna chill out and pretty much do nothing. Like, I'm gonna go hang out with my kids. I might play some video games. I'm not gonna feel bad about that either because I know my brain needs to chill. And then I'm gonna set up another work period where I can like, get stuck in. Sometimes I might go through a p. I. No, actually no. I know that every time I think I can be better than that is when I have a breakdown later on. Like, oh, no, man, my brain is so good, I can kick ass. Like, I'm gonna go like five days straight and wait 10 hour days. Like it always comes with a big meltdown after that and regret and feel bad and like underperform. So yeah, the understanding that is the key philosophy. So then, now how do I manage my day knowing that I need to go one to one? That would be one of the things. And then the other thing too is without Doubt nutrition and some form of physical activity absolutely regulates and I gamify all my fitness. Like, okay, what's my challenge today? How long is it? What am I trying to achieve? That gets me excited.
- [35:03]
A
Yeah.
- [35:05]
B
Or I know some pretty cool stuff about how to optimize the brain and the brain health and what to give that. So my supplementation regime is pretty good. My nutrition plan is pretty good. Good. And when I do that, I feel amazing. When I don't, I fall off and do my best not to beat myself up. But that's usually the reason. If I'm not doing those things, that's usually the reason. I'll have a couple of bad days after that. I'll beat myself up a bit and just get stuck in there. And then something will snap me out of it and go, oh, sweet. No, actually, I'm just back to where you were. You know, how you work.
- [35:39]
A
I love that you're saying that too, because I think so many ADHD is get stuck in this perfection. Like, I've got to do it perfectly every single day. But the reality is we're imperfectly, perfectly perfect. Like, we just. There are going to be days when you, you know, miss the supplements or your nutrition goes out the window. That's all Right. Cool. Hit reset when you realize. Right.
- [35:57]
B
So another one that I learned in sport, which I'm so thankful for and I apply now, and when I think about the best people I've ever worked with and when I'm at my best and the reminders I get is that 80 is world class. Absolutely world class. What I mean by that, if you break down any sport and the best in the world, they're good about 80% of the time. So that's the top 1% of the 1% are good 80% of the time. Why do we give our expectations that we need to be at 100?
- [36:33]
A
Right.
- [36:36]
B
So if I'm anywhere, if on average with everything that I do, if I'm anywhere between 60 and 80% and sometimes I go up to 90 because I'm not putting the pressure on 60 to 90%, I'm better than 25% of the population now. Not that I'm competing or saying that I'm better than someone else.
- [36:54]
A
Yeah.
- [36:54]
B
It's just such a good reminder that I can function super well in that range. The things that are critical there. Well, to not feel bad that we had Hell's Pizza last night, because that fit inside the 80%. Like, it's absolutely fine.
- [37:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:11]
B
It's not absolutely fine to Today I decided to put oat milk in my coffee, but most of the time I drink it black.
- [37:18]
A
Just.
- [37:19]
B
It's okay.
- [37:20]
A
Yeah. I'm curious. One of the things that you mentioned was, like, the nutrition, the supplements, that sort of a thing. What does that look like for you? Like, for you to perform at your best, for your brain to work well for you? What does that sort of look like in the. In the space of nutrition and supplements?
- [37:39]
B
I wanted. I always like to be really careful with this answer because I'm quite a few steps down than most. So I'm at a point where I've had DNA testing, I check my bloods, I know what's missing, and I add in where I need to be.
- [37:54]
A
Yep.
- [37:54]
B
But I've also got no problems in giving, like, a basic recommendation, which I think most people will do really well with.
- [38:01]
A
Yeah.
- [38:01]
B
So. And also remember, too, when it comes to supplementation, the supplementation, it's on top of doing the basics well with your food and your hydration and your sleep. But some great ones, absolutely. Creatine, there is no supplement. More studied, more agreed upon. Like, I don't need to be a nutritionist to go, guys, you just Google it for two seconds and you'll see.
- [38:28]
A
Creatine is amazing, men and women. I want to say that because there has been, like, rumors around how it will put on weight. So I know a lot of women who are like, oh, I don't know about creatine, but I know experts coming out now being like, no, take creatine.
- [38:45]
B
The. The weight that you put on is minimal, and it is intracellular water.
- [38:52]
A
Yeah. Water.
- [38:53]
B
You're not putting on muscle. In fact, you're hydrating yourself. And if you're a bit heavier because there's more water in your body, your body's going to perform better. You're going to feel great. Yeah, I agree. I understand that people. The scale matters to some people, and it can be a bit of a crutch, but you're going to perform better and you'll probably do better in the gym anyway. So you're going to lose the real weight and it's going to come down. It's quick anyway, so it's a note for me. Yeah. I would. I'd struggle to give actually more recommendations than that because, again, I'm not a certified nutritionist and there's lots of podcasts and videos from, so experts out there on that sort of stuff. But it's worth looking into things like B vitamins, it's worth looking into magnesium. It's worth. Worth looking into fish oil. It might be. Especially with women, but men as well. It might be iron, but what I'd say it's so worth testing and finding out. So I did some DNA testing and some blood testing and I know exactly what I need and I've minimized.
- [40:05]
A
How do you do that? Like when you talk about the DNA testing, like what did you do for that?
- [40:11]
B
Well, it was funny, I was looking into it and then randomly one of my clients. Oh, it's just around the road from you, Ben from. I don't want to get his pharmacy wrong. What's the pharmacy at the Plaza?
- [40:25]
A
My pharmacy.
- [40:26]
B
My pharmacy. By you just.
- [40:28]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:28]
B
Talk to Ben, get a DNA test.
- [40:30]
A
Oh, wow.
- [40:31]
B
Do that for you.
- [40:32]
A
So you can just do it literally through your own, like your pharmacy, your chemist, this guy.
- [40:36]
B
You can. Yeah, yeah.
- [40:37]
A
Okay.
- [40:38]
B
And we've brought it into the gym here of eight or nine people. It's not cheap.
- [40:42]
A
Yeah.
- [40:44]
B
But absolute for I think a lot of us struggle with a little bit of clarity and it just, instead of having to try a supplement, testing it, how am I feeling? Blah, blah. You can actually just get the data to go.
- [41:00]
A
So you can get that from your DNA test though.
- [41:02]
B
Yes. Because it's taken from blood. Yeah. And it can tell you what's missing. And so I can be more surgical with what I need.
- [41:09]
A
Yeah.
- [41:09]
B
And within six months of having that information, I feel like a different person already. So.
- [41:15]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:17]
B
But most of it for me as well, I think it's. It's multi pronged understanding adhd, I think, or that system. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I think that I want to do this right. I wouldn't just look at it as a single thing like that's part of a whole. So what are the other things that in my body do I need? Like I'm not producing energy. Well, ah, do you know what? My aerobic system's a bit high or my heart rate's too high or all those sorts of things as well. If you bring your heart rate down and your blood pressure down, all of a sudden your brain's going to feel better. So you can take it physically too. You know, I've got no problems with going speaking to psychologists and counselors and coaches and to understand. Is there a better way to think about things that might help?
- [42:07]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:10]
B
I think that's what separated me and indoor cricket is I probably just looked at the game a little bit different.
- [42:15]
A
Yeah. I'm curious what if anything, do you wish you knew sooner when it comes to ADHD.
- [42:27]
B
On a scene, nothing now, nothing. It doesn't matter. There's, it's not actually helpful. Like what's, what's, what's important now, what's in front of me. Yeah, I don't, yeah, there's heaps of moments where I've had grief, like, but I just go through that grief to realize my life has planned out the way it's planned out and it couldn't have gone any other way. So wishing that it was different doesn't help. Like, what do I need to do now? What am I going to learn?
- [42:54]
A
Yeah, it's interesting, right, when I ask people that question because I think like, I wish I'd known I had ADHD sooner only because life got better. Like, not like, not like life wasn't good but like it's become more rich, I think.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah, I went. So I've got another story. So I tore my Achilles once and couldn't play and went pretty downhill and, and struggled mentally and because, you know, that was my place that I can balance my brain out etc and my identity was stuck, I suppose in a lot of ways to being a good sportsman and all that stuff. And then it was taken away and it was a hard period and it was. I put on a lot of weight. I was feeling. But I will never forget the first time I ran on the treadmill again. It was. I never liked running well, not since I was a kid. And I was like, I just had this feeling of bliss and great, like, oh my God, I'm running again. And then I set the challenge like, oh man, okay, I'm running now. Can I get back playing quicker than anyone's done after Achilles tear and all that sort of thing. But I don't think the reason I say that story is I don't think I would have the gratitude of going through the process now if I hadn't experienced the downs and the lows of not knowing about it and all that sort of stuff. So I think it's almost enriched, more enriching now this process because I had the hard times as well.
- [44:24]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:25]
B
And I think that. So, yeah, looking back for me now, like, while I did go through that at times to time, it's. I know now it's, it's way cooler now knowing later because, yeah. More behind it, you know?
- [44:37]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How does it, I'm curious, how does the ADHD shape the work that you do today? Like how does it show up?
- [44:46]
B
Because I learned so much in it. I think half of Me, really? That's what I like teaching about is going like, how do you build energy? How do you cultivate it, how do you focus it? That's a way more. And because I've gone through that, I've learned all that sort of stuff and I love sharing it with people because if just a few comments and a few adjustments to someone, the way they're looking after themselves or the way they're thinking about something that they shoot for five under their handicap on a weekend, because I've been able to show them some stuff like that lights me up. It gets me going, like, love it. There might be some people that I play golf with now listening to this, and I'll feel bad about it, but I love going down and competing on a Tuesday night because I love it. I know how to do that stuff. And when the game gets a bit tougher, I get a bit more excited. And we've won the last two competitions at the simulator golf and it's great. But I love bringing along people for the ride with that because I, I'm not here to say this, winning is what I do, but I, I just step into those moments and really enjoy it and it makes life quite fun when you're. You're competing in those spaces. So, yeah, it's what I do. What I do is I share this and help people with this. And a big part of that, I'm pretty sure my old man had adhd and a big driver for me is to go, do you know what? If I had my old man at 40, like, if I could have shown him some stuff to help him do business better to make sure that he could keep playing golf. He had to stop when he was in his 50s to sleep at night and not be up at 2 o' clock in the morning watching the news because his brain was too wide for stress. Like it could have made a difference.
- [46:24]
A
Yeah.
- [46:27]
B
Those are the things that get me up and get me excited every day to do some work because I just find it so much fun.
- [46:32]
A
Yeah, what's one thing? And you can give more than one. But what's one thing that you would like the late diagnosed ADHD to know? What's one thing you'd like to leave the listener with?
- [46:54]
B
There's nothing wrong with you.
- [46:57]
A
I love it. Mic drop.
- [47:00]
B
There's nothing wrong. And like, dude, you might be about to embark on a cool little journey, so let's see where it goes. Yeah, it's. Yeah, I remember actually, it was probably a couple of years ago, a year ago, after Toastmasters. And Jay mentioned that you said this, and I thought it was really cool. It's so cool to find out that you're a zebra and you're not a weird horse.
- [47:26]
A
Yeah.
- [47:28]
B
So once. And hopefully. And maybe I'm still not over it, but I am feeling this way now. Once you get over the idea that, yeah, it's not a problem, it's not a. This diagnosis isn't a disease. It's just like, you're finding out and learning more about yourself. It's a chance to get excited and see where it takes you. Because what's the percentage of people that have adhd? Like, what's that roughly?
- [47:51]
A
I think they say it's roughly like 5% in. In New Zealand or. But I think those stats are increasing. I think they're wildly inaccurate.
- [47:58]
B
So let's just say it's 10%.
- [48:00]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [48:03]
B
How exciting. We get to live a life that's a little bit different than 90 of the rest of the world. Right? Yeah. Why don't we find out what that looks like? Like, that's pretty cool. I. I embrace the fact now that different's not the right word. I'm just, like, going through life differently and. Yeah, it gives us a cool perspective to live on. And there's a reason why ADHD became present in human beings. They needed us. So let's go. We're supposed to do.
- [48:30]
A
Yeah, I love that. And I think, like, I. I love being different because I think, like, you know, it's. It's like ice cream. Right. Like, I don't like vanilla. It's boring. Right. You give me goody, goody gumdrops or anything else. Right. Like, that's exciting. It's like travel. We travel for different experiences, different cultures. Like, difference is exciting. It's. It's, you know, what adds color and flavor to the world we live in.
- [48:54]
B
Yeah. In the nicest possible way. Like, most people, there's a standard bowel deviation curve, and most people are in the middle, and we're at the other end of it. Like, we get to experience life different, and that's cool. And. Yeah, let's go find out. So, yeah, it's not a message, I suppose. It's just where I'm at. And I like to remind myself of that when, you know, maybe I am feeling down about it or I am struggling with something or. Yesterday I spoke to. I worked with a sports psychologist, a psychologist for many years. His name's David Galbraith, and I spoke to him about him. It really annoys me that I struggle with finances. Like, it's something that I don't care for. Sometimes it gives me a physical agitation to it, struggling to. Sometimes I don't like asking for my worth and all these sorts of things. And. And he's just like, we'll just get someone else to do it. And I was like, yeah, like all those things I can hire someone or give to someone else or ask them. I don't have to do that. I don't have to force myself into a space where, like, it may contradict a little bit what I was saying before around anxiety and pressure, but it's not a place that I care for. I care for it. It's important. But yeah, I'm way better working over here, so I might go get some help with that and they can do that and I can just be.
- [50:19]
A
And we're not, we're not supposed to be good at everything and I think sometimes we expect ourselves to be and it's like, no, we can outsource that. We can pay for that. We can, you know, put yourself where you, you want to be or where you are best suited. Right. Like if, if it's an area of interest for you, if you love numbers and finance, which, trust me, I don't either, then that's different. Right?
- [50:38]
B
Yeah, yeah, Bang on. So, like, there's an example. Like, I hope I haven't come across as someone who worked out all the answers that literally happened yesterday.
- [50:47]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [50:49]
B
My next point of call is like, okay, if this is the area I don't want to do, right. Who am I going to hire? Actually, I've just hired someone who I can just palm that work off to her. Yeah, do that for me.
- [51:00]
A
Yeah.
- [51:01]
B
And these things will continue to come up. There'll be, there'll be something else in five years, 10 years, 15, hopefully 30 years time. But I can deal with it and I'm just going to spend as much time as I can in the places that light me up the most. And I suppose that's the goal, really.
- [51:19]
A
Yeah. 100. All right, so for listeners who are, have listened to this, who would like to connect with you, whether that be they follow you, you know, on social media or they're interested in working with you, where could we send them?
- [51:35]
B
So I suppose actually on the back of this conversation I might change a couple things, but FIT Club F I T C L U B CO NZ is website I have at the moment, email is mattclub CO NZ I can't remember what my Instagram handle is.
- [51:54]
A
I'll. I'll link it all up in the show notes anyway, so people will be able to get it. But.
- [51:58]
B
Yeah, and. And I said I've. This. That conversation I had yesterday with dg. Right. Like, he just did it off as bad. It wasn't paid for. I'm open to anyone who wants to have a conversation about anything and with no pressure and stuff. Like, I've had so many people give their time to me and help me that I would just. Yeah. I wouldn't turn anyone down if they had a question or whatever.
- [52:19]
A
Yeah.
- [52:20]
B
Yeah.
- [52:21]
A
Thank you. Like, thank you for being generous with your time and. And also being vulnerable because I think that helps the rest of us feel seen and understood. So.
- [52:30]
B
Yeah.
- [52:30]
A
Thank you.
- [52:31]
B
My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. I. I love what you're doing and keep going because I know people so much. People appreciate it and. Yeah, I hope there's more of it.
- [52:43]
A
Hey, friend, if you want some more help navigating and thriving with ADHD and some help applying everything that you're learning here on the podcast, then head over to our website, navigating adult adhd.com.