Podcast Summary: Navigating Adult ADHD

Episode: [BONUS] The Conversation We Kept Recording: Matt & Xena Go Deeper
Host: Xena Jones
Guest: Matt
Date: September 29, 2025

Episode Overview

This bonus episode captures the spontaneous, honest, and insightful behind-the-scenes conversation between Xena Jones and her guest, Matt, following their main interview. Picking up mid-conversation, Xena and Matt dive deeper into the realities of living and thriving with ADHD as adults. Their candid discussion covers the importance of embracing imperfection, the transformative power of viewing routines as "practices," and the effectiveness of gamification for motivation—especially for ADHD brains. Both share personal anecdotes and practical tips while weaving in science-backed perspectives and a refreshingly no-nonsense tone.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Practice Over Perfection

• Shifting Mindset on Routine Activities:

  • Matt reframes his approach to exercise, diet, and self-care as "practice" rather than striving for perfection.
    • “I've been looking at my exercise or training…it's something I practice. It's a part of my routine and because it makes my life better.” (Matt, 01:36)
  • Xena echoes the value of consistent, imperfect effort:
    • “I like the word practice as well because it implies that it's not about doing it perfectly. It's a practice. It's…like we're still learning.” (Xena, 02:57)

• No One Does It Perfectly:

  • Matt, with 20+ years as a coach, highlights that no client has ever done everything perfectly, emphasizing the human element of progress.
    • “Not one single time in any instance has anyone done anything perfectly. Letter of the law.” (Matt, 03:59)

2. The Trap of Perfectionism

• Imperfect is Better than Perfect:
  • Xena shares her "TED talk idea"—the dangers of seeking perfection:
    • “Imperfect is better than perfect. Because perfect is the problem. Right. Like perfect is the problem…this idea that there's a right way to do it." (Xena, 04:15–04:21)
• Letting Go of Expectations:
  • Matt discusses how expectations can limit us or set unnecessary pressure:
    • “Why go on to anything with an expectation? ...You could be drastically underestimating yourself.” (Matt, 04:38)

3. Gamification and ADHD: Making Progress Fun

• Gamifying Goals in Fitness and Life:
  • Matt describes how introducing game-like elements (e.g., beating your last result by 5%) boosts motivation, dopamine, and engagement—not just for those with ADHD, but everyone.
    • “Let's not put the reward of losing five kilos ten weeks down the road. Let's go, ‘All right, what's the goal today? Well, I lifted this last week…let's beat it by 5%.’" (Matt, 08:02)
  • Xena is drawn to making everyday challenges, like doing a chin-up, a game rather than focusing on the distant goal of weight loss.
    • “Oh, maybe that's my one. A chin up…” (Xena, 08:57)
• Celebrating Progress:
  • Both stress the importance of enjoying incremental wins, especially for ADHD brains that tend to focus obsessively on end goals.
    • “Our ADHD brains get so focused on the destination...Hang on. The view is pretty good, isn't it?" (Xena, 10:42)
    • “One floor at a time, and then every time I go up another floor, and that's awesome.” (Matt, 10:59)

4. The Value of Joy, Play, and Presence

• Being Present Over Winning:

  • Xena references stories from books about elite athletes who perform best when detached from the need to win, instead focusing on the joy in the process.
    • “When you release the grip on the need to win and instead make your mission…to enjoy it as much as you can. That's when everything changed.” (Xena, 05:21)
  • Matt’s outlook mirrors this: “There’s always another shot…another game…There’s always another opportunity. Nothing’s life or death until it’s death.” (Matt, 06:13–06:26)

• Curiosity and Flow in Life:

  • Matt notes Kobe Bryant’s curiosity and enjoyment of the process as his true competitive edge.
    • “He was at his best when he was in flow. And he's just being here in the moment, doing the next thing and not letting…‘you need to do this’…get in the way.” (Matt, 06:40)

5. Applying Gamification Beyond Fitness

• Gamification for Children with ADHD:
  • Matt discusses using game principles in teaching life skills to his 8-year-old son recently diagnosed with ADHD, highlighting its broad benefit.
    • “He loves being in front of a screen. He loves playing a game…how can we teach him the life skills that he needs in a way that's going to hit him better?” (Matt, 11:52)
  • Xena reflects how this approach can benefit everyone, not just neurodivergent individuals:
    • “If we approached [schools] in this fun way, in this open, curious way, in this gamified way…everyone would benefit.” (Xena, 11:14)

6. Embracing Playfulness as Adults

• Remaining a Kid at Heart:
  • Both joke about never fully growing up and the importance of integrating play into adult life.
    • “I don't feel like I ever grew up. I don't know about you, I didn't.” (Xena, 12:44)
    • “We're all kids if we really ask ourselves.” (Matt, 12:36)
  • Matt shares a wedding anecdote about people joyfully playing with a giant Jenga set as a metaphor for bringing fun into life.
    • “Why can't we turn our whole life into that? …We get to write our story.” (Matt, 13:23)

7. Practical, Science-Based Life Tips

• Books and Learning Cheats:
  • Conversation turns to responsible book buying and leveraging free resources (like library audiobooks) to avoid dopamine-fueled overspending.
    • “That tip there is going to save me $300 a year…I want to turn my Audible subscription off.” (Matt, 15:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Imperfect is better than perfect. Because perfect is the problem.”
  (Xena, 04:15–04:21)

• “Not one single time…has anyone done anything perfectly. Letter of the law.”
  (Matt, 03:59)

• “Let's find out. And that's why I think, hopefully it's been that mentality lately that…I'm free and I'm playing against someone who doesn't want to lose.”
  (Matt, 04:47)

• “Our ADHD brains get so focused on the destination…Hang on. The view is pretty good, isn't it?”
  (Xena, 10:42)

• “Why can't we turn our whole life into [a game]?…We get to write our story.”
  (Matt, 13:23)

• “That tip there is going to save me $300 a year. I want to turn my Audible subscription off.”
  (Matt, 15:49)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Framing routines as a “practice”, not a perfection pursuit: 01:26–03:14
• Imperfect over perfect & dangers of perfectionism: 04:10–04:38
• Gamifying physical activity & life: 07:06–10:06
• Focusing on present vs. future/expectations: 05:21–06:40
• Gamification for children and the universal value of play: 11:14–13:23
• Life hacks: Using library audiobooks, curbing impulsive purchases: 15:00–15:49

Conclusion

In this unscripted, bonus episode, Xena and Matt’s raw, laughter-filled exchange distills powerful lessons for navigating ADHD (and, indeed, life):

• Embrace imperfection
• Make the journey joyful and gamified
• Notice progress along the way
• Let passion and curiosity—not pressure—guide your habits

Full of practical wisdom and relatable humor, this conversation is a gentle reminder that success isn’t about being perfect—it’s about practicing, playing, and finding satisfaction in the small moments, one step at a time.