Beyond Willpower: Building Financial Systems That Work for Your Brain

Summary

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NerdWallet’s Smart Money Podcast

Episode: Beyond Willpower: Building Financial Systems That Work for Your Brain
Release Date: June 29, 2026
Hosts: Sean Pyles, CFP® & Elizabeth Ayoola
Guest: Christine Hargrove, Clinical Assistant Professor & Assistant Director, Love and Money Center, University of Georgia, Financial Therapist (ADHD & finances specialization)

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a crucial and often overlooked area of personal finance: managing money when facing cognitive challenges, whether from head injury, ADHD, or other diagnoses that impact executive function. Inspired by a listener’s question from an occupational rehab therapist assistant, Sean and Elizabeth engage expert Christine Hargrove to dig into practical strategies, emotional barriers, and trustworthy resources for people who struggle to manage finances the "standard" way.

The conversation expands from head injuries to all types of diagnoses and life situations, focusing on how to build financial systems tailored to different brains, with a compassionate look at shame, acceptance, and seeking support.

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Key Discussion Points & Segments

1. What Do Cognitive Challenges & Executive Dysfunction Look Like?

[03:46–06:51]

• Observable struggles: Unpaid bills, late payments, errors like paying twice (“Those are the things that are more observable to an outsider... But there are also aspects...that are invisible but really carry a very heavy metaphorical cost.” – Christine, 03:57).
• Invisible challenges: Emotional costs such as shame, eroded sense of adulthood and independence.
• Overlap between ADHD, head injury, and other cognitive issues: Executive functions are impacted across diagnoses. ADHD therapy can offer broadly applicable insights.

2. Breaking Down Executive Functions

[06:08–06:25]

• Christine outlines the "seven executive functions":
  1. Self-awareness
  2. Inhibition
  3. Non-verbal working memory
  4. Verbal working memory
  5. Emotion regulation
  6. Motivation
  7. Planning and problem-solving
     (“So they are: self awareness, inhibition, non verbal working memory, verbal working memory, emotion regulation, motivation and planning, and problem solving, in that order.” – Christine, 06:11)
• Even basic financial tasks (opening bank accounts, budgeting, taxes) can be huge hurdles for those struggling with these.

3. Societal Misunderstandings & the Shame Spiral

[06:51–09:47]

• The world often discounts invisible disability: “People think you just need to try harder or aren’t mature, but the actual barrier is neurological, not motivational.” – Paraphrased from Christine

• Importance of “good enough” in finance, versus perfection.

• Key quote:

  “There’s not one perfect outcome...doing something is better than not doing something.”
  – Christine (08:21)

• Humor as a coping strategy (“It doesn’t have to be done, it just has to be perfect.” – Sean, 09:47)

4. Moving Toward Acceptance

[10:01–14:01]

• Acknowledging denial, frustration, grief over lost skills and independence ("Whether they are recently dealt or lifelong...talk about it...sunshine is a great disinfectant for shame." – Christine, 10:27)
• Making room for the emotional side of money – money isn’t just math, it's behavior and emotion.
• Taxes as a universal trigger; the threat is often more emotional than mathematical (“Something about filing taxes that throws just about everyone with executive function difficulties into a panic spiral...” – Christine, 13:02).

5. When Should You Seek Help?

[14:01–15:17]

• Getting professional or outside help should be viewed as a commitment to your wellbeing, not as defeat.
• Coaches, counselors, financial planners, or therapists can all play positive roles; using them is “evidence that you are committed to getting to your goal of financial well being.” – Christine, 14:17.

6. Diagnosis-Specific Patterns and ‘Rules of Thumb’

[15:32–18:01]

• Executive function isn’t the only financial challenge—grief, PTSD, anxiety, depression, and big life transitions all can impact finances, sometimes years later.
• “Rules of thumb” help:
  “Like, I’m going to phone a friend, or I’m going to wait three months, or...talk to someone I trust first.” – Christine, 15:32
• Writing down resources, making lists, and even using AI as an explainer (“...help me understand what this means.”)

7. Recommended Tools and Building the Right System

[18:10–19:58]

• NerdWallet and Monarch Money cited for visual tools and credible content.
• Christine’s S.A.V.E.R. framework for evaluating tools:
  • Streamlined: Is the tool simple and easy to use?
  • Accessible: Can you use it when/where you need it?
  • Visual: Does it show information in charts/graphs?
  • Engaging: Is it fun or motivating? (Gamification)
  • Realistic: Does it adapt to your real life and worst days, not just best days?

8. Protecting Yourself Against Exploitation

[19:58–22:54]

• Freeze your credit to prevent fraud; check with annualcreditreport.com – “It just looks like a long PDF, but the earlier you catch [errors/fraud], the better.” – Christine, 20:19.
• Vet professionals: Seek those with real accreditation (CFP®, AFC®, certified financial therapist).
• Pro bono help:
  • Savvy Ladies (for women), Foundation for Financial Planning, VITA (Volunteer Income Tax Assistance), National Disability Institute.
• Look for "fiduciary" status – required to act in your best interest.

9. Actionable Small Steps for Overwhelmed Listeners

[22:54–24:57]

• Write down each small financial step you take (“...write down what you did...before you quit for the day, write down what you are about to do.” – Christine, 23:12)
• Use reminders or calendar apps to keep momentum.
• Experiment to find what system fits you—phone reminders, to-do lists, calendar notes.

10. Leveraging Social Accountability: ‘Body Doubling Sessions’

[24:57–26:45]

• Pair up with someone for short, focused work sessions—your working memory doesn’t get overloaded and it lowers emotional barriers.
  • “There’s actually some research...when you do a body doubling session...your non verbal working memory doesn’t have to work so hard.” – Christine, 24:57
• Limit “work” to a set amount of time (10, 20, 30 minutes) for sustainability.

11. Considering Financial Power of Attorney (POA)

[26:54–28:59]

• For those with no supportive family/friends, POA or supportive POA gives trusted individuals legal authority to manage finances and prevent abuse.
• Specialized financial planners/professionals can help set this up, especially those experienced with disability or neurodiversity clients.

12. Planning is Key – Setting Up Your ‘Dream Team’

[28:59–29:15]

• Summing up: Have a plan and assemble allies and systems in advance.
• “It’s being able to get ahead...setting up some system, some kind of plan...whatever hurdles you’re facing.” – Sean, 29:12

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “No amount of 'should' will make it so that you can do it if the thing you should do is something you actually can't do.”
  – Christine (06:51)

• “Sunshine is a great disinfectant, and sunshine is a really great disinfectant for shame.”
  – Christine (10:27)

• “There is such a thing as good enough.... Doing something is better than not doing something.”
  – Christine (08:21)

• “A good budget is something you can follow or at least stay involved with on your worst day, not your best day.”
  – Christine (19:58)

• “Freeze your credit...check your credit regularly...The earlier you catch it, the better.”
  – Christine (20:19)

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Key Resources & Recommendations

• Free credit checks: annualcreditreport.com
• Pro bono help:
  • Savvy Ladies
  • Foundation for Financial Planning
  • VITA (IRS Volunteer Income Tax Assistance)
  • National Disability Institute
• Directories for certified professionals:
  • Certified Financial Therapist
  • Accredited Financial Counselor (AFC)
  • Certified Financial Planner (CFP)

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Practical Takeaways

• Start small: Pull your credit report; write down your “next action.”
• Set reminders: Use phone apps or paper lists for “what I did” and “what comes next.”
• Social support: Try “body doubling” (virtually or in person).
• Look for fiduciaries: Insist on accredited professionals.
• Embrace ‘good enough’: Sustainable, realistic systems > perfection.
• Make a plan: Prepare POA or identify support networks before a crisis.

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This episode is rich in empathy, practical tips, and validation for anyone struggling with financial overwhelm due to executive function challenges—whether lifelong or from a sudden medical event. “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Start where you are, and build systems that work for you.”

Transcript

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BILT cards are issued by column NA member FDIC pursuant to license for MasterCard International Incorporated. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses Setup required Compatibility and availability Various 18 what happens to your finances when your brain isn't working the way that it used to? Whether it's a head injury or another diagnosis, managing money can go from hard to nearly impossible. Today we're talking about the resources, protections and the people that can help.

[A]

Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.

[B]

And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. We got a question about how to manage money when you have a head injury, but what we're going to do is we're going to broaden that out to options for people who need assistance managing money due to any type of diagnosis. All right, here's the question and it was sent by email. Hi. Love your show. Wish I had this information when I graduated from high school and college. This question is for a friend of mine, but I work as an occupational rehab therapist assistant and I deal with people who have head injuries. Much of what you recommend to engage in finance is beyond them. Whether this is due to math, dyslexia, or just cognitive difficulties due to current injuries, a few of these people do not have the family or friends resources to assist them. So we are talking about 401 s looking at W2s doing taxes, coming up with budgets, reviewing billing statements, account balances and ways to save, and assistance for individuals in these cases. Are there any systems in place or person they can look for that may be able to assist them in the world of finances that won't take advantage or cost an arm? Thank you, big fan.

[A]

To help us answer this question, we have Christine Hargrove, clinical assistant professor and assistant director of the Love and Money center at University of Georgia. She's also a financial therapist with expertise in ADHD and finances. We'll talk with Christine about how people with any type of diagnosis that affects their ability to manage their money can navigate the world of personal finance. Christine, welcome to Smart Money.

[C]

Thank you so much for having me.

[B]

All right, well, let's dive in. First of all, Christine, when we talk about cognitive challenges and finances, what does that actually look like day to day for someone trying to manage their money?

[C]

We see a lot of difficulty with many different aspects of this. When someone deals with cognitive challenges related to managing money, there are, of course, the symptoms, the most obvious things that someone from the outside would see, like missed bills, late payments, miscalculating something, paying something multiple times. Those are the things that are more observable to an outsider. You might see that stack of bills on the counter that has just gone unpaid. But there are also aspects of this that are really internal to the person, that are invisible but really carry a very heavy metaphorical cost and sometimes actual cost. So that includes your emotions surrounding money, your relationship with money, and in many cases, your experience of what it means to be an independent person. If you struggle with managing your money, you will often feel a sense of incapability. Sometimes you feel like your adulthood has been reduced back to maybe feeling like you are being treated like an adolescent or like a child. It's very difficult to maintain your sense of identity and independence when you really struggle to understand and manage your money in a healthy way.

[A]

And your specialty is in ADHD and finances. How much overlap do you see between what your clients experience and what someone with a head injury or other diagnosis might be facing.

[C]

So much overlap. In fact, I love working on ADHD and money because it's. ADHD is one of those things where a rising tide floats all ships. So if it works for adhd, it often works for everyone. It especially works for anyone with a condition that affects their executive functions. So with adhd, we know that all of the seven executive functions are affected by adhd. Different variations, varies by person, varies by situation, but it's really a constant experience, not like a solo experience of which executive function is affected. We also see that the executive functions are affected by brain injuries and by other conditions that really impair the functioning.

[A]

You mentioned seven executive functions. What are those?

[C]

So they are self awareness, inhibition, non verbal working memory. Verbal working memory, emotion regulation, motivation and planning, and problem solving, in that order.

[A]

Okay, I see. And as someone who has adhd, I understand how it can be hard to sort of get yourself organized sometimes and get all of this machinery of executive function organized and going in the same direction. So you can do something like even setting up a bank account can be cumbersome, or filing your taxes on time or saving money, or knowing your budget. All these things that seem kind of simple to a lot of people can be a big challenge to those who have ADHD or other issues mentally.

[C]

Absolutely. If it were that easy, it would be done by now. And, you know, the fact of the matter is it's not that easy. Right. So something I. I look at when I'm working with my clients with ADHD or any other condition that affects their executive functions is no amount of should will make it so that you can do it if the thing you should do is something you actually can't do. With executive function challenges, we have these invisible barriers, but it doesn't mean that they're not barriers. So whether it's task initiation, whether it's not really understanding what the task is ahead of us, maybe sometimes it is retaining the instructions on. I'm thinking about a lot of the times, like setting up an account, paying your taxes. There are these really long lists of written instructions and you're trying to translate that to, okay, where do I go on the website? What am I supposed to click? How does this work? You're really trying to retain a lot of information, and that's all executive function.

[A]

We know the world can be pretty unforgiving to those who have ADHD or other cognitive issues that might make executive function challenging. So you still have to file your taxes on time or you'll face penalties. And if you don't have a good savings account, you're missing out on a yield that you could get. Or if you're not investing for retirement, you know that could jeopardize your future. So how can people begin to work toward these financial goals and tasks that we all really should accomplish, even if it's very difficult to do?

[C]

So the good thing is there are so many good ways to get started. So there's not one perfect place to start. And frankly, there's not one perfect endpoint. There is such a thing as good enough. And I mention that because for so many people who struggle, particularly with executive function challenges, it often feels like if it's not knocking it out of the park, it's bad. Right? So we have this very quick tendency to slide back into that shame spiral because of so much negative messaging, so much correction, so much why aren't you trying harder? And frankly, we sort of joke about ADHD is the worst kept secret and that people know something is a little bit different, but they actually think that you meant to do it or that you're just lazy or that you're just flaky or self centered. And I actually think that that's really true for any condition that affects your executive functions, that the people around you don't necessarily realize the invisible barriers that you face as you're going through your daily life. And so the way you get talked to and sometimes talked about is that it was a character deficit or is an intention or that if you just tried harder it would be fine. I want to emphasize that there is no perfect outcome and there's no perfect place to start because it really decreases our internal barriers to getting started. So doing something is better than not doing something.

[A]

That reminds me of a meme that I see a lot in adhd, Internet humor, that's it doesn't have to be done, it just has to be perfect.

[C]

I have that one saved too.

[A]

I love it. I relate to that feeling.

[B]

Christine, you've mentioned throughout this conversation people may be feeling shame, frustration. And I'm thinking about someone who maybe has experienced a head injury or even just recently been diagnosed with autism or ADHD or whatever it might be. And maybe having a sense of denial and not having that acceptance that they can't manage their finances how they used to, or that they may have to do it a different way. How can people kind of come to a level of acceptance so that they can help themselves? Help themselves?

[C]

That is a great question. And there are so many different ways that people can learn to accept the cards they've been dealt, whether they are recently dealt or lifelong. But now kind of, you're having to really see it. I think one way can be to talk about it, right? So sunshine is a great disinfectant, and sunshine is a really great disinfectant. For shame. So bringing something down to the open, it doesn't necessarily have to be. Here's my diagnosis. It can just be, here's a part of my finances that I am struggling with. So, for example, you know, I hear you say Roth conversion. I don't quite understand what that means. Interviewing and expecting to interview. If you decide to hire a financial professional, of which there are many who love working with clients with executive function challenges and are very good at it, that expecting to interview multiple before you find the right person is a good way to engage that process. So if you expect the first time out, whether you're starting to budget, whether you're looking for a financial professional, whether you are figuring out a system starting out, you need to set your expectations that this is a pilot, this is the first attempt, and you know, I'm, I'm going to expect, I'm going to interview at least 5. I also like to say, you know, when you are estimating time, which is part of executive functions, it's the non. It's in the non verbal working memory part. When you're estimating time, take whatever you think that's going to be and triple it. So reset your expectations. That really sustainable change happens a little bit many times in a row and eventually it starts to gain a lot of momentum. Not everyone has to accept it to be financially well. But for those of us with executive function difficulties, we sort of do have to accept it to be financially healthy. And that's that money isn't just math. So it's our behavior. We have to reflect on our past behavior, current behavior, future behavior. We have to, you know, think about it, be able to tolerate our own discomfort if maybe we had like a purchase that we don't, we wish we hadn't made, we have to manage our emotions. So for a lot of us, we've got some baggage. And actually I would say that's more normal than not. But when we are thinking about our hopes for the future, our feelings of overwhelm, particularly with taxes, right? There is something about filing taxes that throws just about everyone I know with executive function difficulties into a panic spiral of like, I'm going to jail if I don't get this perfect. It feels so threatening. And so in that example, you know, so many people avoid filing their taxes because they're concerned it won't be perfect. You actually have worse penalties when you don't file than if you filed something and then had to adjust or filed for an extension. But in that case, like, it's really not just the math that's the problem. It's not that the numbers don't add up, it's that the feelings about having to try to do this feel so overwhelming that you're trying to cognitively think through the math. And emotion regulation is one of the executive functions. So part of your energy that you should be devoting to figuring out the numbers and matching that up to, you know, timeline is actually completely tracking into managing your emotions and trying to help you stay calm enough to think clearly.

[B]

As I'm thinking about what you're saying, at what point does it go from hey, I'm going to implement these strategies to help me manage my finances on my own, to I need help and I can't do this on my own, and potentially getting external help to manage your finances.

[C]

A lot of people choose to get help. Like, I could manage the finances on my own well enough, but either I would prefer to spend my time in another way, maybe it stresses me out so much, or I have to devote massive amounts of time that are better spent elsewhere. Or it could also be that they just really don't like doing it, or somebody else would do it better. You know, it's not uncommon that someone else doing your taxes will find more opportunities to find those loopholes and make sure that you're set up for success. Looping in a financial professional, whether you're working with a financial coach, financial counselor, financial planner, or even a financial therapist, I don't think that that's evidence that you can't handle your finances. It's evidence that you are committed to getting to your goal of financial well being, of financial health. And that is one of the tools and resources you have available to you to make sure you get to that goal.

[A]

So we mentioned how executive function challenges are common, especially for those who have adhd. I'm wondering if there are any other financial challenges that might be more common with other diagnoses, or is executive function maybe the most significant one that you see?

[C]

There are a lot of financial challenges associated with ptsd, anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, of course, the severe and persistent mental illness, which is sort of its own category. And that would include some things like schizophrenia and frankly like short term and prolonged bereavement Right. Like major life changes, life transitions, they kind of scramble your brain for a while. For some people, they scramble their brains for a really long time or longer than they wish. And they think like, I'm okay, I'm okay. And then a couple years later, they're like, why in the world that I do that with my money? That doesn't make any sense. I don't know what I was thinking. You know, for other people, maybe a grieving process or a life transition, they go through it and then they kind of learn to live with it. I would say for many of those people, they have often either already set up some rules of thumb for how they're going to make decisions. Not what decisions they're going to make, but how they're going to make decisions. Like, I'm going to phone a friend, or I'm going to wait three months, or. Or they have a financial professional of some sort that they work with or somebody that they really talk to about their money that they trust that they would let in on, here's what I'm thinking, or here's what my questions are. And then that person gives really good advice and that they are able to kind of collaborate so that maybe in a time where that person is feeling particularly vulnerable cognitively, they have really another set of eyes on their books and who can give them advice and also support them and support their sense of agency. So many of these people have done something great, which is they have written their rules down. They have written down their rules of thumb of here's how I'm going to make financial decisions. And they've also written down a list of here are my resources. So that can be phone numbers to call, websites to visit. I also think for some people using different AI platforms to help explain, like, I don't understand what this paragraph means, this legalese, or this, like, complicated agreement that it looks like I might be signing. Help me understand what this means. And in some cases, if you have a friend or a colleague that doesn't make you feel embarrassed. That is really just a good teacher being willing to reach out to them and say, like, can you walk me through this form? I want to make sure I'm doing it right. Can be the inflection point of whether you avoid it forever or whether you actually do it.

[A]

That makes me think, too, about other financial tools or apps or technologies. You mentioned AI that might be available to people that you would recommend to help them through this.

[C]

I think there are a lot of good apps out there. Um, I mean, I know that there are ones that I use more than others. I check out NerdWallet a lot. So that's. I mean, yeah, that's one of them. Any. Any really consistently reputable source of information out there. So NerdWallet's a really good site. Monarch Money has really good graphing features. So if you're a really visual learner, that's a good app. But there. There are a lot of other really good apps out there. The way that I like to talk through this, and I really believe that this is some. I frankly think this is something that helps everybody. Again, a rising tide floats all ships is when you are thinking about any kind of financial system. There are five categories that I have people think through for themselves about which one is more important and which one's less because that will help direct you to a good system that works for you. So the first one, it spells Savor S A V E R. So the first category is streamlined, like, is the app or budgeting system streamlined? The second one is, is it accessible? Like, do I have the information when I need it, for example, like in your pocket, or do I have to go back to my computer? The next one is, is it visual? So for some people, seeing it on a graph means makes a very big difference. Is it engaging? That's the E. Some people love gamification. And then the last one is, is it realistic? So does it encourage you to maybe have some padding? Does it encourage you to be realistic about your life? Is it forgiving? Is it a system that you can update quickly? And a good budget is something that you can follow or at least stay involved with on your worst day, not your best day.

[B]

One thing that I want to ask is about how people who struggle with executive functioning or have a diagnosis can be extra careful because this group of people may be vulnerable to being taken advantage of. So what are some ways that they can vet financial professionals or even tools that they're using to protect themselves?

[C]

So the first one is to freeze your credit. And that is something that you can do much more easily now than 10 years ago. And also you can check your credit. Nobody really likes checking their credit. I don't even like checking my credit. And I know what's on there. It just. It's like. It just looks like a long PDF. But you can go to annualcreditreport.com and that is a free website. It is very reputable. So freezing your credit and regularly checking your credit is a great way to make sure that there's nothing on there that either shouldn't be on there because somebody else has used your credit or that you kind of forgot about. Right. Which is pretty upsetting when that happens. But the earlier you catch it, the better. So Savvy Ladies is a group that provides pro bono financial counseling and that's open to women. The foundation for Financial Planning. They fund pro bono financial planning efforts throughout the country. And I can give you the link so that and the listeners can find a pro bono, which means free financial planning session near them. VITA is the volunteer income tax assistance program. That's something we run it here at University of Georgia, the next building over. So we see them all the time. I also really like the National Disability Institute. So they are dedicated to providing financial support and ensuring the financial well being of individuals, couples and families living with disability. But for all of these, if you look at the governing bodies that oversee the work, it matters if someone is a certified financial therapist versus just a financial therapist. It matters if someone is an accredited financial counselor. So an AFC versus someone who is a counselor, a certified financial planner. The CFPs, all of those people are fiduciaries. So fiduciary means they have to do and recommend what is in your best interest. So they can't look at you and be like, well it would be better if you did this, but I'll make a commission. If I sell you this, I'm going to sue the other one. They've got to tell you what is in your best interest. So going to websites looking for the professional directories for cft, so the financial therapist for the afcs and for the cfps, those are great ways to get started. You can also look at your local university. I know of course University of Georgia, we have a fantastic financial planning program. Some really aware of what we have. But a lot of large universities have financial planning programs and they will be connected with local firms, with local coaches. Like they have a long list of graduates and they will be able to tell you who's a fiduciary.

[B]

This might be a little. As I'm listening, I also have adhd. Could be overwhelming for someone like me who procrastinates and it's like, oh, I have to do all this research and look through all of these things. So what could be maybe one or two small steps that they could take just to get themselves started and not not do anything at all.

[C]

I love this because I completely identify with it. You know, it sounds a little counterintuitive because I think I have lost more pieces of paper than most people have ever written on. But getting out a piece of paper or in my case at this point I do a remarkable so I can't lose it. Write down what you did. So the one action you took, for example, I pulled my credit report. And then before you quit for the day, write down what you are about to do. Because the next time you're thinking, oh I should do something about my money, you're automatically going to think, oh no, now I got to get reoriented. I don't remember where I left off. You know, you have that immediate like I got to avoid. But if you look at your list you're like, oh, the next thing I was going to do was I was going to go look for an AFC or I was going to go read something about 401ks on Nerdwallet. Okay, I can do that. Yeah. And then, and then write down your next idea.

[A]

Yeah. For so many people with adhd, I think that finding a system that works for you is key. So implementing something like that could be really easy. For me, one of my systems is I rely heavily on the reminders app on my phone. I'm constantly telling it to remind me to do XYZ thing. I have another person in my life who uses the calendar app on their phone in a very similar fashion just so they can keep track of things. And you could potentially jot a note down in the calendar app saying just what you described, Christine. Or okay, here's what I'm going to do next. Here's what I just did and then I'll set a calendar reminder for a week from now so that I can actually keep the progress going and not lose where I was in this process. And what works best for each person is going to be a little bit different. So I would recommend people just tinker around with different tools or systems that might help them offload some of this administrative burden.

[C]

I really like the idea of account not accountability sessions but body doubling sessions. And there's actually some research on this for executive function challenges that when you do a body doubling session which can really just be like keep me company on, you know, Monday at 5:30, I'm planning on sitting down. I want to make sure my credit card bill is paid. Having someone keep you company, whether it's on the phone or particularly if it's in person, what happens is our non verbal working memory doesn't have to work so hard to think about what am I supposed to be doing. Because if someone is sitting at the table with you and it kind of Looks like they're working or you're at a coffee shop or something where you've got that vibe. Your nonverbal working memory doesn't have to get in gear quite so much. It can just slide right in. Like, hey, I always talk to Lindsay every Monday and we log in and pay bills for 10 minutes. You have a lot more space. First of all, your emotions are a little lower and your nonverbal working memory isn't working so hard. So you have a whole lot more cognitive capacity to engage in the actual doing of the financial management.

[B]

My son IO, he's 8 and he has some executive functioning challenges, aka ADHD in his instance. And his teacher does body doubling with him and she finds that whenever they do body doubling, he's able to focus and get a lot more work done. So it can be effective for sure.

[C]

Oh, what a good teacher.

[A]

And I like the idea of time boxing it because just having 10 minutes, like you said, Christine, or maybe 30 minutes where you're both going to get your work done can be really helpful versus okay, we're going to get together and we'll like get something done. We'll be hanging out kind of. That I imagine, could be challenging, at least for me, because I'm always the one to want to goof around a little bit and not stay on track. So just saying, okay, we'll have Fun after this 15, 20 minute working session can be a really simple and easy way to grasp. We'll get these tasks done, we'll do it together, and then we'll move on and have fun.

[C]

A hundred percent. There have to be limits on the things that you engage in that make you uncomfortable or that scare you or you will never be willing to start pristine.

[B]

The listener says, going back to the question that the people they work with don't have family, friends or resources to help them manage their money. Do you think people who experience head injuries or mental health diagnosis who are unable to manage their money on their own could maybe benefit from a financial power of attorney? And for those who don't know, that's someone you appoint to legally manage your financial affairs and also to protect against financial abuse in case you're incapacitated or, or just for convenience.

[C]

Sometimes I do think that that can be really useful for, for some people it's really not the first option and you can have a supportive power of attorney where it's someone that you trust that you work with. And I actually really like the approach of making sure that somebody has the ability to help you in the event that you are incapacitated. Right. That they could oversee your affairs and make sure everything is in order. There are a lot of financial planners who specifically work with clients who live with a disability or who are in a couple or family relationship with someone with a significant disability. And they can be absolutely wonderful resources for this. So Financial Planning association has different circles, they have different kind of interest groups. And so they've got some where they're focused on neurodiversity and some focused on special needs. And so that would be a great place to go check out. Look for somebody who really has experience in this area. And I'll tell you, like, they're out there. I work with them, I know them, I do presentations with them. We're really passionate about supporting families with special needs and making sure that this is a normal thing that we talk about. I also think that this is an area where the National Disability Institute really shines. They have a lot of resources. They have guidance. They have resources in many different forms. So it's not just all written. A lot of it's very visual. They do a lot of presentations. So the National Disability Institute would be one that I would really dig into and see if you can find an approach that works for you. But definitely having some kind of power of attorney or at least plan for, you know, how to have a bit of a backup is a great approach.

[A]

I think that word plan really ties the whole conversation together. It's being able to kind of get ahead and knowing some of your limitations, setting up some kind of system, some kind of plan to make it so you can manage your finances, whatever hurdles

[B]

you're facing, and putting a dream team together to help you out there.

[A]

Well, Christine Hargrove, clinical assistant professor and assistant director of the Love and Money center at the University of Georgia, thank you so much for coming on and speaking with us.

[C]

Thank you so much for having me. This has been really fun.

[B]

We'll be back in a moment. Don't go anywhere. Stay with us.

[A]

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[A]

I'm going to be probably throwing a barbecue or maybe trying to go to a friend's barbecue. We tend to have people over the past few years we've done this where we cook a lot of food and we play croquet in the backyard and just enjoy being garden. It's kind of like weird golf in a way. You have a little mallet and a ball that you kind of get through these like holes called wickets. Like, it's a little frame thing. Watch the movie heathers from the 90s. I believe it's the 90s and they play a lot of croquet in a murderous way. So you'll learn all about croquet if you do that. But anyway, it's kind of a tradition. We got into doing that during the pandemic because it was a good social distancing sport because you're outside and you can be plenty far apart as you're playing croquet. That's pretty much what I'm going to do. I'm hoping that my friends bring a lot of food over because every time we throw a barbecue, it ends up costing. Yeah, we end up spending like $200 or so just on plates and drinks and meat and buns and condiments and everything.

[C]

Chips.

[A]

It just. It all gets really expensive. And I mean, we don't do like big fireworks, but I like having little snapdragon things and sparklers and. Yeah, it's just so easy to overspend.

[B]

You asked. You literally answered all my questions. I was going to say, how much does it cost? And can you get people to bring food? I love me a good putlock. You bring, you know, if you bring in the booze, you bring the juice, you bring the buns, and then that minimizes the cost.

[A]

No, we do it in this kind of similar way where Garrett, my husband, will make a great dish, but he will buy or me will buy everything for that. And then our friends will bring whatever they want to bring. And it's always kind of a surprise. We don't coordinate dishes, which I love because everyone has such different taste. And all of my friends are really good cooks or they're really good at going to Costco and buying something that's pre made. So we just got a great variety of food and we also almost always end up with leftovers. So in a way, my fourth of July barbecue is going to be a meal prep.

[B]

What? Actually, I never thought about that because honestly, I'm not a host. I do not like hosting because it just overwhelms me. I wish people could come over and help their self. So anyways, I never host anything, but I have been flirting with the idea of Buying a grill and inviting people over.

[A]

Okay, so are you going to be throwing a barbecue this Fourth of July?

[B]

Absolutely not. So what might be happening this Fourth of July is I may be going with Ayal to Grenada for the Fourth of July weekend. Yes.

[A]

You better decide quick. It's coming up fast.

[B]

I know, right? I should know soon. But I may be going to Grenada because that's in a few days. But you know, I'm always last minute sometimes my travel plans, which is okay because I have a travel fund now.

[A]

That sounds so fun. What are you going to do there?

[B]

Relaxing. And what I like is it's child friendly, so they have. It's a resort that we'd be going to. They also have childcare and things for the kids to do in addition to things for the parents to do, so we can both get a nice little summer vacation going.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I imagine that would cost a little more than my $200 barbecue, though.

[B]

Oh, it's gonna cost nothing because it is a press trip. And for those who don't know what a press trip is, for everyone who doesn't know, in my free time, I do freelance writing and sometimes people or companies will say, hey, can you write about this? And we'll fly you out for free. But I just want to say for all the people who are looking on at Instagram, envying people going on all these press trips, it is work. So it's not like you're just dilly dallying all day. Well, sometimes.

[A]

But you do have to go on a zipline and be in paradise and eat all this food. Elizabeth.

[B]

So difficult. And not have to pay for anything. So I've taken Aya on two press trips in his life, so this will be his third one. And I just love being able to take him to all my forms of work. And I know we'll have a great time without me having to spend any money.

[A]

That sounds so fun. And also, you are low key, a travel and lifestyle influencer. So everyone should be following your escapades on social media.

[B]

That's what I suck at. Honestly, that is not my strong suit. But I could definitely write a good story about my travels. That is where I shine.

[A]

Well, I want to see the story when you're done. If you end up doing this trip.

[B]

Exactly. So if we do not go to Grenada, I don't know. You know, I always end up crashing someone else's house, so I'm sure we'll get invited somewhere.

[A]

I love that. Okay, well, we'll have to both reconvene after the fourth of July holiday and talk about how this all went for us.

[B]

We shall, we shall.

[A]

And that's it for this episode, folks. Send us your money questions. You know the drill. You can text us or leave us a voicemail on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901730, nerd. You can also email us at podcastnerdballet.com or drop us a comment on Spotify or YouTube.

[B]

And while you miss us desperately in the meantime, you can follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app that includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

[A]

Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

[B]

This episode was produced by Nick Krisimi. Hilary Georgie helped with editing. Eve Krogman edits our audio and video. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

[A]

And with that said, until next time, turn to the Nerds. Hey Smart Money listeners. We have a brand new email newsletter and it's completely worth signing up for, especially since it's free.

[B]

Every issue has clips and from recent episodes, links to stories you might have missed, and also behind the scenes commentary from me, Sean and our producer.

[A]

Some of it is stuff that doesn't make it into the episodes, the context, the moments, the takes we didn't plan on sharing.

[B]

You can think of it as the group chat for Smart Money fans. I'm going to be sharing inside details about parenting and money. Yes, I'll be sharing all the juicy

[A]

stuff and I'll have loads of tips about what I'm doing in my garden. So if you want to putz around your garden like I do, sign up for the newsletter. And also, you know we have money, tips and all that kind of stuff. So head to nerdwallet.com podcast to sign up. Again. It's free.

[B]

That's nerdwallet.com podcast. We'll see you in your inbox.

[A]

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