Bilt Card 2.0 and the Points Math: What’s a “Good” Return in 2026?

Summary

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NerdWallet’s Smart Money Podcast

Episode: Bilt Card 2.0 and the Points Math: What’s a “Good” Return in 2026?

Release Date: February 16, 2026
Hosts: Megan Coyle & Sally French (Smart Travel segment) | Sean Pyles, Elizabeth Ayoola (Main show)

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the dramatic relaunch of Bilt’s credit cards—now known as “Bilt 2.0”—and explores what these changes mean for travelers and everyday users hunting for optimal credit card rewards. Focused particularly on the cards’ new ability to earn points on both rent and now mortgage payments, Megan and Sally break down the mathematical practicality of maximizing Bilt points and Built Cash in 2026. The episode features candid analysis, memorable banter, and real-world tips for determining if “Bilt 2.0” is worth a slot in your wallet.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Bilt Matters (03:54–05:25)

• Bilt’s Unique Value:
  • Traditionally let renters earn credit card points on rent.
  • New program extends rewards to mortgage holders—opening up a broader market.
  • Bilt points are transferable, making them valuable to travel hackers (comparable to Chase Ultimate Rewards, Amex Membership Rewards).
• Editorial Independence:
  • “Nobody paid us to do this episode. Megan and I have full editorial independence.” — Sally French (05:25)

2. Bilt’s Old Model Explained (05:59–07:28)

• Old World Elite Mastercard:
  • $0 annual fee; earned 1 pt/$ on rent if you made 5 purchases/month.
  • Users gamed the system with “banana purchases” (buying five bananas to satisfy minimum purchase requirements—hilariously referenced).
    • “They're paying off their five bananas.” — Sally French (06:59)
• Serious Flaw:
  • Bank’s only revenue was minimal transaction fees.
  • Wells Fargo reportedly lost $10 million/month on this card (07:26).

3. Bilt 2.0: New Cards, New Rules (07:37–13:43)

• Three New Cards:
  • Bilt Blue: $0 annual fee
  • Bilt Obsidian: $95 annual fee
  • Bilt Palladium: $495 annual fee
• Key Feature: Earn points on mortgages as well as rent—for the first time.

3.1. Tiered Points Structure (08:30–12:48)

• Points earn rate now depends on how much non-housing spending you put on the card:
  • Spend at least 25% of your rent/mortgage in other categories: 0.5x points
  • Spend 50%: 0.75x points
  • Spend 75%: 1x points (previous ‘normal’ rate)
  • Spend 100%: 1.25x points
• Example: With $4,000 rent—must spend $3,000 elsewhere to unlock 1pt/$ (12:13).
• Minimum Earn: If you don’t meet even 25%, you get a modest 250 points—“like pennies. It’s really not a lot of money.” — Megan Coyle (12:48)

3.2. Introducing Built Cash (13:43–17:53)

• Built Cash: Not the same as Bilt Points.
  • Earn 4% Built Cash on non-housing spend.
  • Built Cash can offset a 3% fee to unlock points on your rent/mortgage (but only inside Bilt’s ecosystem).
  • Expires annually (with $100 rollover cap). (15:17)
• Optimization Challenge: “What Bilt did to us is make us really good at algebra.” — Sally French (14:07)

4. Is It Worth It? The Math of Bilt 2.0 (17:53–22:43)

• Palladium Card ‘Super Math’:
  • 2 pts/$ on everyday spend, worth up to 1.8¢/pt = 3.6% return (travel redemptions).
  • With 4% Built Cash, total potential return: 7.6%—best in class, but only if you optimize (19:28).

“You’re getting 7.6% return rate on your everyday purchases with a Bilt Palladium card.” — Megan Coyle (19:43)

• BUT: Built Cash restrictions (redemption options limited, expiration concerns).
• Mental Overload Warning:
  • “There is an opportunity cost to your own mental gymnastics and your mental sanity…” — Sally French (43:07)

5. The Elephant in the Room: Bilt’s Confusing Launch & Community Backlash (27:21–32:55)

• Rocky Rollout: Frequent, unclear changes frustrated users.
• Reddit Drama:
  • “If y’all read Reddit, you gotta go to the Bilt subreddit. I’m like Michael Jackson popcorn emoji reading that subreddit.” — Sally French (28:42)
• Trust Issues:
  • Company communication and shifting terms undermine user confidence.
  • Users must “be okay with a lot of uncertainty going forward…” — Megan Coyle (29:46)
• Wait-and-See Approach: Both hosts recommend holding off investing until the dust settles.

6. Card-by-Card Breakdown & Comparisons (33:03–38:50)

• Bilt Blue (no fee): 1 pt/$; basic, entry-level access to Bilt partners.
• Obsidian ($95):
  • 2x on travel, 3x on dining or groceries (choose one).
  • 1.25¢/pt in Bilt Travel portal; $100 split hotel credit (two $50/half-year), two-night min.
  • Compared to Chase Sapphire Preferred—Obsidian offers similar earn rates and redemption options.
• Palladium ($495):
  • 2x everywhere (non-housing), plus 4% Built Cash.
  • Priority Pass access for cardholder + 2 guests.
  • $400 hotel credit ($200 every half year); $200 Built Cash; strong signup bonus: 50k pts + $300 Built Cash.
  • “That bonus is worth $1,200.” — Megan Coyle (38:50)
  • Reminiscent of Capital One Venture X for premium users.

7. Maximizing Bilt Points via Transfer Partners (39:06–41:50)

• World of Hyatt: A favorite for the hosts; excellent value for hotel stays.
• Atmos Rewards (Alaska Airlines):
  • “Atmos [Alaska] has some of the best rates on flights in the OneWorld alliance…” — Megan Coyle (40:41)
• More airlines/hotels: United, Southwest, Marriott, Hilton, Japan Airlines (strong 1:1 transfer).

8. Who Should Get a Bilt Card? Decision Framework (41:50–45:26)

• Power optimizers (willing to micromanage and maximize every benefit) will get the most value.
• Casual users may benefit from transfer partners but could be outmatched by the complexity.
• Don’t force it: If your current credit card mix works for you and you don’t value these partners, “Opt out of Bilt 2.0.” — Megan Coyle (43:07)
• Special Note for Wells Fargo Bilt Card Holders: Must transition by Jan 30 for a smooth switch and preserved card number.

Notable Quote:

"Am I willing to spend my built cash for a bunch of Lyft credits all the time? I don’t know. I have a car, so I don’t even use Lyft that much." — Megan Coyle (44:01)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On banking incentives:

  “According to the Wall Street Journal, Wells Fargo was reportedly losing $10 million a month on this card.” — Megan Coyle (07:26)

• On new complexity:

  “I feel like I’ve done a lot of math in the past couple of days.” — Megan Coyle (14:07)

• On optimizing headaches:

  “There is an opportunity cost to your own mental gymnastics and your mental sanity of remembering to spend this money.” — Sally French (43:07)

• On program trustworthiness:

  “This rollout has not inspired confidence.” — Sally French (30:41)

• On value, if you're willing to play:

  “You’re getting 7.6% return rate on your everyday purchases with a Bilt Palladium card.” — Megan Coyle (19:43)

• On the community’s angst:

  “Everyone is stressed, confused, angry, whatever. Over at the Bilt subreddit, and then with the Friday afternoon change, it just went wild.” — Sally French (28:42)

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Additional Highlights & Listener Q&A

• Listener Q&A:
  Producer Hillary asks about best ways to get to Greece on miles—leads to practical advice on using transfer bonuses (45:26–48:04).
• Tools:
  Hosts plug points search/transfer tools like point.me and prior Smart Money podcast coverage for maximizing value.

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Final Takeaways

• For Travelers/Point Maximizers: Bilt 2.0 can offer industry-leading rewards—if you are committed to optimizing moving targets, quarterly math, and ecosystem quirks.
• For Most People: Wait for more program stability. The chaos of rewards structures, shifting terms, and annual fee tradeoffs require serious homework.
• Big Picture: If you don’t need the transfer partners or aren’t interested in wrangling with redemption restrictions, your current 2–3% cash back or travel cards may offer better, lower-stress results.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Bilt’s Relevance: 03:54–05:25
• Old Bilt Model & “Banana Purchases”: 05:59–07:28
• New Card Overview & Earning Math: 08:30–13:43
• Built Cash Explained & Optimization Conundrum: 13:43–22:43
• Community Reaction & Trust Issues: 27:21–32:55
• Card-by-Card Comparison: 33:03–38:50
• Transfer Partners & Redemption Examples: 39:06–41:50
• Listener Q&A (Greece, points tools): 45:26–48:04

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Tone:
Conversational, candid, occasionally irreverent, but always clear-eyed about financial practicality and traveler priorities.

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Resources Mentioned

• Links to further NerdWallet articles on Bilt Cash, card comparisons, how to maximize point transfer (available in original episode notes).
• Point search tools (e.g., point.me) for optimizing redemptions.

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Summary prepared for listeners who want the essential analysis, the math behind the hype, and a clear-eyed verdict on navigating Bilt 2.0.

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Transcript

[Sean Pyles]

The following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

You guys have heard me talk about BILT as the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live. And guess what? They just leveled up even more. As of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.

[Sean Pyles]

This is thanks to Bilt's three new credit cards, the Palladium Card, Obsidian Card and Blue Card. All three can turn your housing payments, rent or mortgage into flexible rewards so you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

Built Points can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments and more. Built Points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency.

[Sean Pyles]

Your housing payment is most likely your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and Apply today at joinbuilt.com smartmoney that's J-O-I N B I L-T.com smartmoney make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and limitations apply subject to approval and eligibility.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

BILT cards are issued by column NA member FDIC pursuant to license for MasterCard.

[Sean Pyles]

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[Elizabeth Ayala]

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[Sean Pyles]

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[Elizabeth Ayala]

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[Sean Pyles]

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[Elizabeth Ayala]

One of the pieces that I recently got from Quint was Carry on Luggage so I needed to upgrade mine because it broke and I got this beautiful neutral cream colored carry on suitcase. It is perfect for international travel, very durable and I look stylish when I go to the airport.

[Sean Pyles]

Quint came in so handy over the holidays for me. I did not know what to get my mother in law but I found the perfect cashmere zip up hoodie and she loves it. So I'm glad I could use Quince to get me through the holiday season.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

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[Sean Pyles]

Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U I N C E.com smartmoney to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com smart money. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

And I'm Elizabeth Ayala.

[Sean Pyles]

Today we're presenting an episode of Smart Travel where our friends Megan Coyle and Sally French explained new credit cards from bilt. That's the loyalty program that became famous for letting people earn points on rent payments and and now mortgage payments as well. It's pretty complicated though, so we'll let them explain it.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

Just keep in mind that since this episode was recorded, BILT announced more details about the way Bilt cash works, including monthly limits on how much you can redeem and a new redemption option called Points Accelerator. We can link to the NerdWallet article on Biltcash in the episode description if you want to learn more about that. And also, don't forget to follow Smart Travel for more travel and credit card tips. Here's the episode.

[Megan Coyle]

Welcome to Smart Travel, a deep dive into the tips, tools and tactics to maximize your travel dollars. I'm Megan Coyle.

[Sally French]

And I'm Sally French.

[Megan Coyle]

And we're the travel nerds ready to help you plan your next big trip. And today we are talking all about the new credit cards that have been top of mind in the world of points and miles. And that is the new built cards that launched last week.

[Sally French]

But first, our disclaimer, and that is that we'll talk about a few credit card companies besides Just Build. And some of those companies are Nerd Wallet partners. That does not influence how we discuss them. The benefits, terms and fees mentioned were accurate at the time of posting. But things can change. Some offers may have expired by the time you're listening, so for the latest details, follow the links in the episode description.

[Megan Coyle]

Ready to dive into Bill?

[Sally French]

Oh, Megan, I am so ready.

[Megan Coyle]

Let's go. I want to actually start with a question that one of our producers asked us before we started recording, which is why are we talking about Bill on Smart Travel?

[Sally French]

I guess that's a fair question. Most people probably associate Bilt with earning points on rent. And I will say as a homeowner myself, it was really not relevant to me until about this time last week when BILT released the details of what is called BILT 2.0. That is the news we shared last week. They have three new cards and a new rewards program. They also have the quote unquote ability to earn points on mortgage payments for the first time. We will get to that bit in a second.

[Megan Coyle]

And I think the reason that Built Rewards is so popular with travelers is because it's a transferable currency. So it's like those Chase Ultimate Rewards. It's like Amex Membership Rewards. And of course you can redeem those points for a bunch of different things, but by far the best value redemptions are for travel. So we'll also talk about that more later on.

[Sally French]

And I have said I yearn for those Alaska miles that you can earn or at most rewards points because that is really something I couldn't ever earn before because I was not a renter. So I am very intrigued. I will also say you have probably heard the paid sponsorships for for Built Products on this show. Nobody paid us to do this episode. Megan and I have full editorial independence. We are covering this news because it is such a big story. They are not paying us. They did not send us to any fancy launch parties just to get that out of the way. Let's start with the real news here, which is all the changes Bilt Rewards made to its loyalty program and its cards last week.

[Megan Coyle]

To understand all of that, I think you have to know what the Bilt Rewards program was like before. So Built Rewards is famous for letting members earn points on their rent payments. And until now, the main way to earn points was to apply for their one credit card. It's called the Built World Elite MasterCard Credit Card. And it had a $0 annual fee. And if you made at least five purchases per month on the card, you could earn 1 point per dollar on your rent payments.

[Sally French]

Can we talk about the bananas?

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, please, let's do it.

[Sally French]

Well, so all these people, this is hilarious to me and I love like weird credit card lore. Everyone just made the cheapest possible expense that they could to get those five purchases. They're like, what are the five cheapest things I could buy? So they just admitt banana purchase. Banana purchase times five. I love that.

[Megan Coyle]

Let's talk about why that wasn't sustainable. So the bank that issued this card, Wells Fargo, didn't have a lot of ways to make money for it remember the annual fee on this card was $0.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

So they're not getting money that way. Many of the cardholders probably weren't carrying a balance.

[Sally French]

They're paying off their five bananas.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. So they're not paying these interest fees or late fees to the bank. So they're not making money that way either. The only way to make money was on transaction fees. And like you said, some people were only making five purchases a month on their card. Transaction fee is just a percentage of what you pay. So cardholders are earning tons of points on rent, and the bank was losing out. According to the Wall Street Journal, Wells Fargo was reportedly losing $10 million a month on this card.

[Sean Pyles]

Whoa.

[Sally French]

I did not know that. I can't believe they signed onto this deal to begin with.

[Megan Coyle]

I know it wasn't going to last forever.

[Sally French]

Wells Fargo is so happy that they're out of it now.

[Sean Pyles]

Absolutely.

[Megan Coyle]

So Bill announced that their partnership with Wells Fargo was ending. This was back in November, and that they were going to introduce three new cards. So we finally have the details about those. There are three cards. One still does have a $0 annual fee. That's the Built Blue card. Then there's the Built Obsidian card. This one has a $95 annual fee. And then the fancy one is the Built Palladium card, which has a $495 annual fee.

[Sally French]

And then the real kicker, in addition to all these new card options with various annual fees and various benefits that come with those cards, is that not only are you able to earn points on rent, but you can now earn points on mortgage payments as well. This did seem intriguing to me. As I said, a homeowner, because I have a big mortgage payment with my home and sf, so I want to be able to earn points on that.

[Megan Coyle]

The only problem is that Bilt needed to figure out how to make this all profitable.

[Sally French]

Classic. We're going to give you rewards, but we also got to make money out of it. So by getting members to spend more money, they have made it very complicated for us. And they presented this in the most confusing way possible. So literally, as we were recording this episode, they just changed it on us. So for the listeners who don't know, we were talking and we had to rerecord part of what we were just going to say because it is different. What is different, you ask? So now there are a few options you have. Option one is you can earn points on your rent or mortgage payments in tiers based on how much other spending you do on the card in one month. Also, I'll be clear, the other spending varies based on what your rent or mortgage payment is. So if you spend at least 25% of your monthly rent, you will earn half a point per dollar spent on that total rent or also mortgage payment. So let's say you have a $4,000 rent or mortgage payment. You would have to spe $1,000 on the card each month to earn the extra 2,000 built points per month. But again, if your rent is $8,000, then you would have to spend $2,000 on the card each month. So the higher renter mortgage, the more you also got to spend on other things.

[Megan Coyle]

And this is where we should put this into perspective. According to Nerdwall's valuations, built points are worth about 1.8 cents each. So going back to that $4,000 rent example, you'd only be earning about $36 worth of points for your rent payment. This is not a life changing amount of points that you're earning on rent.

[Sally French]

I will say though, that is the lowest of the tiers. So if you spend the least amount, which would be 25% that they allow, and you do need to spend at least 25% to get any sort of points, that is the lowest amount. But then there are more tiers. So the higher the percent that you spend on other stu your monthly rent or mortgage payments, the more points you get. So going back, I know It's a lot. 25% of your monthly spend means you get a half a point per dollar on your total housing payment. However, if you spend at least 50% of your monthly payment on other stuff like your groceries or whatever, you will earn.75 points per dollar you spend on housing. And then if you do even one better, if you spend 75% of your monthly rent payment, you will earn one point per dollar.

[Megan Coyle]

And one point per dollar is probably what most people want. It's the standard that built kind of established under their old system. Are we calling that built 1.0? Because we're calling this one built 2.2.2 maybe. Who knows what version we're on.

[Sally French]

Back when built was nice and easy, built 1.0 again, you would have to spend now 75% of your monthly housing payment on non rent purchases to get this one point per dollar.

[Megan Coyle]

This really depends on how much of your spending you're doing on other things. And there's even another tier that we haven't even talked about yet, which is if you're spending the same amount on your credit card on other stuff that's not housing. So for that $4,000 rent example we've been using, if you're also spending $4,000 a month on other things on going out to eat on vacations, and you're putting it all on your built card, you could earn 1.25 points per dollar on your rent. So for the $4,000 a month rent, you'd earn an additional 5,000 points on your rent. That's just a lot of spending. Oh my goodness.

[Sally French]

I actually do think there is a class of people who spend the same amount of money on their credit card as they do in rent, and that is my wonderful friends out there who have somehow managed to score super cheap rent. If you are paying $500 a month for rent, please tell me where you live because that sounds amazing. Those people, I think, are probably the most logical candidates for people who would be getting that 1.25 points per dollar spent on their rent. Then again, your rent is only $500, so you are also only getting 500 built points. So, you know, everything sort of shakes out.

[Megan Coyle]

Let's talk about what happens if you do not spend even 25% on your rent. Will you earn any built points under this option? If you're spending, let's say only a couple hundred dollars on this card, and that's not even 25% of your rent payment, there is a minimum number of points you'll get just for paying rent with this one of these build cards and that's 250 points. If you don't spend at least 25% of your rent or mortgage payment on other things, you'll at least earn 250 points, which, like pennies. It's like really not a lot of money.

[Sally French]

Not life changing, but at least I think this could be marginally helpful. If you for some reason maybe don't meet the spend threshold that month, but you otherwise would earn it, then at least maybe you get something for your rent or mortgage payments that month.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, honestly, maybe in that case you just think about the second option for earning it. This is just one of the earning schemes of how to earn points on rent or mortgage payments. So let's move on to the next 1. Option 2.

[Sally French]

Tell us about option 2 and already, if listeners are sufficiently stressed, I'm with you. Also, what built did to us is make us really good at algebra.

[Megan Coyle]

I feel like I've done a lot of math in the past couple of days. Okay, option two, you can choose to earn the standard number of points on all the purchases and then as Far as earning on rent, you will basically earn a 4% back in this new currency called Built Cash on all of your purchases that are not rent or mortgages. And then you can apply that 4% back in built cash towards a 3% fee to earn points on your rent or mortgages. And Built Cash is a bit strange. It would be great if it was just real cash back and you could get like statement credit or a check in the mail or whatever. But right now you can only redeem it for certain things in the build ecosystem. And it expires at the end of the year, which is another thing that doesn't happen with cash back.

[Sally French]

More generally, I will say generally, I hate cards that don't let you have the cash back option because there's so many people who, for whatever reason, can't travel. So I say just get the cash back and do something with it. And then also the expiration dates. Nah.

[Megan Coyle]

So Built Cash actually expires at the end of the calendar year, but you can roll over $100 to the following year. So they're really forcing you to use it on a regular basis. Let's talk about how you can use it. So there are some redemption options where $0.01 of Biltcash gets you $0.01 of value. So that's considered good.

[Sally French]

Right.

[Megan Coyle]

But the big redemption option that everyone's talking about has to do with this new 3% fee for earning points on rent or mortgage payments.

[Sally French]

So this is the one that we really need to dig into because of course, use your built. Get that Barry's Bootcamp class. Totally good. But should I use my Built Cash to pay this fee? Please, Megan, tell me about it, because I'm stressed and confused.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, so we're going to get into the math portion already. Here we go. You need to cover a 3% fee to earn the full 1 point per dollar on your rent or mortgage payment.

[Sally French]

Right.

[Megan Coyle]

But all the purchases you make on this card that are not rent or mortgage payments earn 4% bill cash. Okay, I'm going to totally simplify this for you.

[Sally French]

Please do.

[Megan Coyle]

You basically need to spend 75% of your rent or mortgage payment on your card in one month to be able to earn enough bill cash to cover your fee and unlock all of the housing points.

[Sally French]

Oh, I don't do that. Yeah. You think people do that?

[Megan Coyle]

I don't know. I mean, let's put this in a real numbers that people can play around with that. So let's take a $4,000 a month mortgage or rent payment. You would need to spend $3,000 a month on other purchases on the card to earn enough built cash to earn 4,000 built points on your rent or mortgage payment.

[Sally French]

Unless it's something wild is happening, like, you know, my wedding planning month or I'm planning a big trip. I'm not doing that.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah. And just think about it like you might be losing the opportunity to earn more points on different cards.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

Achieve any of your other travel goals. If it isn't all with Bill. That could be a lot of money to put on one card because I.

[Sally French]

Get 2.0.67% cash back on another card that I use on all my general spending. So I don't want to transfer that to built.

[Megan Coyle]

But there is a little wrinkle here, which is that built points are really valuable. So according to Nerd Wallet's valuations, built points are worth about 1.8 cents each if you're transferring them to partners for smart hotel or flight redemptions. We're talking like the world of Hyatt redemptions. Maybe a really good Alaska Airlines redemption. There are so many ways to use built points, but I think it is relatively reasonable to expect you could get 1.8 cents in value from them.

[Sally French]

That is a good point if you want access to Bilt transfer partners. And really the one that I mentioned at the top of the show is Alaska. I was planning my whole honeymoon back from Madagascar, and some of the best flight redemptions involved paying Atmos rewards points. Atmos is the loyalty program affiliated with Alaska. And I do not have at most rewards points because there are no really great ways to get them. You either have to spend an Alaska card, you have to fly Alaska a bunch. But Bilt offers a great way to get them in that you can transfer built points to Alaska. And I have no Alaska points already, and I have no built points, so I just couldn't even use that as an option.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. So these built cards do give you access. And also you don't have to have a built card to earn built points.

[Sally French]

Okay, that's true.

[Megan Coyle]

But it is probably the most efficient way to earn them. So let's get back to the math you mentioned, Sally, that you have a card that gets 2.67%.

[Sally French]

Yes, I do. That is correct.

[Megan Coyle]

That sounds great. I'm going to blow your mind with.

[Sally French]

Okay. All right. I'm ready. I'm on the edge of my seat.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay. So the built palladium card, that's the premium card. It has a $495 annual fee. That's a lot. It earns 2 points per dollar spent on everyday purchases. So not rent or mortgage.

[Sally French]

Okay.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay. Let's multiply that by the value of the built points, which is 1.8 cents per point.

[Sally French]

That's assuming that you're getting a great redemption, like an Alaska type redemption. Right. Okay.

[Megan Coyle]

So 1.8 times 2 points per dollar, you're at 3.6% already beating your cash back.

[Sally French]

Interesting. All right. All right.

[Megan Coyle]

And then we haven't even considered yet that you're also earning 4% built cash on that. So 3.6% plus 4%. You're getting 7.6% return rate on your everyday purchases with a built palladium card.

[Sally French]

Interesting. I haven't really done this math for myself. I think you're kind of blowing my mind here. Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

But there is a catch.

[Sally French]

Yes, there's always a catch. Tell me.

[Megan Coyle]

Of course. So the 4% built cash that I just added on there is not always worth 4 cents.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

There are only certain things you can use Biltcash for to get dollar for dollar value. Or in this case we'll call it cent percent value.

[Sally French]

So there are all sorts of partners that you can spend this Biltcash with. I'll give you some options. There are hotel bookings made in the built travel portal. There's Lyft credits, fitness classes, dining, home delivery powered by Gopuff the Bilt collection, which is this special series of limited drops and select items from Built. I do think the lift is compelling, but I hate to be tied in to whatever this built collection is. I don't want to get my home delivery from Gopuff and also the fitness classes. I have my own gym thing. I do like a Berries every once in a while, but I just don't want to have money tied up that I'm now suddenly feeling obligated to go to Berries all the time.

[Megan Coyle]

Again, these are some of the things that you can redeem built cash for for that dollar to dollar or cent to cent rat want. But honestly, we don't know what some of the stipulations or restrictions are going to be.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

What if you can only redeem $10 of built cash at a time for a Lyft credit?

[Sally French]

Yes. Sometimes they do that.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah. And then you have to take like a million Lyft rides a month. Like I don't know that I want to do that.

[Sally French]

So when would people find out the terms of all these little silly things?

[Megan Coyle]

We're all waiting, you know.

[Sally French]

But it does seem like you have to be on top of It. And then also you have to remember that there's the expiration date. So if for some reason I'm doing a ton of shopping on my card in December. Oh, I don't know why, because everyone spends money in December, then I have all this built cash. But then only a hundred of it can roll over. I guess I gotta do a lot of Barry's classes in December.

[Megan Coyle]

You're gonna be super fit in December.

[Sally French]

Maybe not the worst.

[Megan Coyle]

Really ahead on your New Year's resolutions. Okay, but I do wanna point out that this is just one way to think about Built Cash. This is for the optimizers, the people who want every single, like cent out of these points and Built Cash. But there are other ways to do it too. So all this to say, if you want to get the most value out of your built points, you probably don't want to pay rent or mortgages with your built card.

[Sally French]

Interesting.

[Megan Coyle]

With the Palladium card, for example, you'll earn those 2 points per dollar spent on all your purchases. And then again, we're assuming that you can redeem those points for at least 1.8 cents apiece through transfer partners. Then you'll redeem your 4% back for maybe those hotel bookings that you make in the built travel portal, I don't know. And then bam. That's how you get 7.6% back on your purchases. And you didn't even touch the rent or mortgage payment part of this because you weren't doing that. You redeemed your built cash for something else.

[Sally French]

So you are telling me that the card that got famous for paying rent and apparently now mortgages. You don't want me to pay rent or mortgages with this card.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, you don't have to if you want to get the best value out of it. In fact, our colleague Craig Joseph wrote about how he's going to use Biltcash for those better value redemptions. And he explains it really well. If you want to read that, we'll put the link in the episode description.

[Sally French]

Okay, Craig has been all over this build news, so shout out Craig. Yeah, and just to be clear, we talked about this last week on the show, but Biltcash is a different currency than Bilt Points. So already I think these made up bank currencies are very confusing. The number of people who have said to me, what is a United Mile worth? I would be a united millionaire if they asked me that. And I got a United Mile every time they asked me that. So Bilt has made it doubly complicated because not only can you earn Bilt points for spending on your card, but you also can earn Built Cash. To be clear, Built Cash is not a Built point.

[Megan Coyle]

You can redeem the Built points for this fee to earn extra points. I kind of think about it. If you simplify that a little bit, is kind of like you're just buying extra Built points with your Built Cash.

[Sally French]

Interesting.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, so that is one way you could use it.

[Sally French]

That's not really how Built frames it themselves. Built frames it as you can use this Built Cash to buy a bunch of stuff in their network, which are things like Barry's boot Camp classes and Lyft rides.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, we've been throwing around a lot of numbers. I think we need to talk about the actual cards now and what these earn rates are.

[Sally French]

Yes, because also we have to account for the fact that these cards have annual fees. So you are paying potentially a huge annual fee to get that over 7% return. We will talk about these cards, their benefits, and their annual fees after the break.

[Sean Pyles]

The following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

You guys have heard me talk about BILT as the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live. And guess what? They just leveled up even more. As of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.

[Sean Pyles]

This is thanks to Bilt's three new credit cards, the Palladium card, Obsidian card, and Blue Card. All three can turn your housing payments, rent or mortgage into flexible rewards. So you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

Built Points can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments, and more. Built Points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency.

[Sean Pyles]

Your housing payment is most likely your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at joinbuilt.com smartmoney that's J-O-I-N B I-L-T.com smartmoney make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and limitations apply, subject to approval and eligibility.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

Bilt cards are issued by column NA member FDIC pursuant to license for MasterCard International, Inc. Today's episode is sponsored by Spectrum Business.

[Sean Pyles]

Picture this. You're running a business and the Internet drops during business hours. Your to do list instantly One, panic. Two, stare at the router like you're negotiating with it.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

And three, start offering customers a brief moment of mindfulness while the checkout screen loads.

[Sean Pyles]

For business owners, being connected isn't a perk. It's how you take payments, talk to clients and keep things moving.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

Spectrum Business keeps businesses connected seamlessly with fast, reliable Internet and advanced WI fi, plus phone, TV and mobile services if you need them.

[Sean Pyles]

And Spectrum Business offers 100% US based customer support 24. 7 to help you stay up and running. That means you get actual help, not submit a ticket and hope for the best.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

Our colleague Carrie is a Spectrum customer shout out to our social media team and she told us that she chose Spectrum because people online kept recommending it as a reliable and affordable option for Internet and phone service.

[Sean Pyles]

Carrie told us she was actually a little hesitant to switch at first because she'd been using a different service for a while. But after a year with Spectrum, she's had a really good experience. Her phone gets strong reliable service and it automatically connects to Spectrum WI FI everywhere.

[Elizabeth Ayala]

Join the millions who rely on Spectrum Business. Visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more one more time. That's spectrum.com business restrictions apply.

[Sean Pyles]

Services not available in all areas.

[Sally French]

All right, and at risk of sounding like chat GPT because I know this is their favorite trope, we have to talk about the elephant in the room. Megan. The elephant in the room is, I gotta say, the built rollout has been rough.

[Megan Coyle]

Rocky to say the least. I feel like I didn't know what was happening. They would announce something and I'm trying to do all this math to figure out is that even a good thing, what they announced? You're really trying to parse through all of this marketing language and figure out what's going on. And it is so complicated that I feel like you actually have to tell me how much your rent is, how much you plan to spend on this card before I can tell you if it's good for you or not.

[Sally French]

Yes. And then we mentioned this earlier in the show, but mid midway through recording the show Built decided on Friday afternoon, on Friday evening for our east coast friends that they were going to change their program again. So this is just indicative of what's going on over there.

[Megan Coyle]

It sounds like the card has not been fully fleshed out yet in terms of all of these rewards and that's really scary when you might possibly commit to spending a lot of money on the annual fees for this card and even all the spending you're doing on these cards. It's a lot of work to move all those subscriptions. I hate doing that. So, yes, this is a lot to consider when you're thinking about getting a new card.

[Sally French]

Leading up to the card rollout, a lot of people were like, what is going on? Because there were so many leaks. The Built subreddit. If y' all read Reddit, you gotta go to the Built subreddit. I'm like, like Michael Jackson popcorn emoji reading that subreddit. But everyone is stressed, confused, angry, whatever. Over at the BILT subreddit, and then with the Friday afternoon change, it just went wild. Immediately after we stopped recording our podcast and then had to go back and rerecord, I was like, I am on the BILT subreddit figuring out what all these people are saying that people are not happy.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh yeah, they are not happy. And also, it doesn't help that people from Built are trying to respond. And I get this too, where you're trying to respond to comments and it's just making it worse sometimes just admitting that you don't know what's coming next for some of these credits or the built cash, that's been really hard to watch. So people have to know if they're going to consider these build cards that they have to be okay with. A lot of uncertainty going forward in the next couple of weeks, for sure.

[Sally French]

A lot of uncertainty. I think about the fact that you're putting so much money into not just the annual fee on this card, but you are transferring your credit card payments from those recurring gym memberships and subscriptions over to build. And if something goes south because BILT changes are terms again and you want to stop being a built customer, that's a lot of work for you. This is not like you're going to a restaurant. You eat there once, it's terrible. And you know what? You never have to eat there again. When you apply for a new credit card. This is something that NerdWallet recommends you might hold on to for many years. Some people hold onto a credit card for their whole life. My dad proudly proclaims that he has the same credit card that he's had since the 1980s, which I do not recommend, dad. But anyway, besides that, people are hanging onto these products for a long time. You really want to be confident in the company. And I will say this rollout has not inspired confidence.

[Megan Coyle]

One of the things to watch as we move forward is more specifics on the built cash usage. I would also look to see if they add caps to any of the rewards Rates. Like we said, some of the rewards rates can be quite high. And so we're going to see whether or not they're going to try and put limits on some of these benefits. I am very curious about the merchant specific caps on the Built cash like the Lyft example we were talking about earlier. I think that is something to watch as we get move forward with these cards.

[Sally French]

Built 2.0 now charitable Sally will acknowledge that the company is listening to their customers. They've made changes because people weren't happy with the initial rollout and they did pivot and add an option that might appeal to more people or different people. BILT itself is framing this as, hey, we're listening to our customers. Some of the other credit card blogs and other podcasts out there. We won't say their names, but they have also been framing it that way, saying, wow, isn't it great that Built is listening to their customers? I hope that is the case. Charitable Sally says that is the case. However, Pessimistic Sally is very skeptical about this and I'm not so confident. It's about listening to their customers. As they saw all the pitchforks and they were like, we gotta do something.

[Megan Coyle]

The customers have to do what's best for them. So Built can make all these changes and if it's still not beneficial to you, then it is totally okay to opt out, to not focus on earning these Built points if you don't want to and you don't need to. If you are happy with your credit card mix right now, that's something to keep in mind.

[Sally French]

Yeah. So, you know, we talked about whether or not we would get these, whether I would get these cards, what you were going to do with your current Wells Fargo version of the card, Megan. And I think where I stand is I'm just going to wait and see. I'm not going to rush into the. This Bilt has made so many changes in the past week that I do want to see how this all shakes out. Of course, over 7% return on my spending is so enticing that I am not looking away. But I'm also going to wait and stick with my 2.67% earning card in the meantime.

[Megan Coyle]

And I'm going to use every single day until January 30th to figure out what I should do. I'm going to run the numbers again.

[Sally French]

Good luck, Megan. Okay, let's run through the earning rates and some of the benefits of each card real quick. Let's just ignore the BILT cash and housing payments thing. For now, the earnings structure besides that is quite simple. For the Bilt Blue card, it is one point per dollar spent on everything, which is fine.

[Megan Coyle]

That's great if you want to get access to Bilt transfer partners for $0, but you probably won't accumulate a lot of points that way.

[Sally French]

Then There is the $95 annual fee BILT Obsidian card. That is the one that earns 2x on travel 3x bonus categories. So you can choo dining or groceries. Groceries has that $25,000 a year maximum limit as I mentioned. I am interested because I'm getting the 2.67% on groceries right now.

[Megan Coyle]

I've also heard a lot of comparisons from this card to the Chase Sapphire Preferred card. They have the same annual fee. The Chase Sapphire Preferred has 3x on dining. Similarly, it also gets 2 points per dollar on travel booked outside of Chase's travel portal and a lot of similar transfer partners including Hyatt, Southwest, United Marriott, Virgin Air Canada. You know, the list goes on.

[Sally French]

Chase Sapphire Preferred does have some other compelling bonus categories. They have bonus categories for select streaming services and online grocery delivery. I'm not an online grocery shopper, but if you are, that could be compelling. There's also a $50 hotel credit and primary car rental coverage, which I do really like that benefit. The Built A Obsidian has secondary car rental coverage, though. I will throw that in there.

[Megan Coyle]

Another similarity between the old Chase Sapphire Preferred and this Build card is that the built points are worth 1.25 cents each if you redeem them for flights or hotels in the Built Travel portal. Remember those days when you could get 1.25 cents for your chase points in the travel portal?

[Sally French]

Rip points.

[Sean Pyles]

Boo.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, so this, this card, the Build Obsidian card, actually all the three cards earn that 1.25 cents redemption rate in the travel portal for build. But I just find that really interesting. Like you really miss that redemption rate. If that was the way you were using your points, you could possibly get that again with this Obsidian card.

[Sally French]

We also got to talk about these statement credits. We have talked a lot on this show about all these bougie little statement credits that are honestly annoying to spend because it'll be in a hundred dollars hotel credit, but it's going to expire and you got to remember to use it and all of this and you got to book through the port. So this card has a hotel credit as well. Going back to the Chase Sapphire Preferred, they've got that $50 hotel credit. The built Obsidian card has an $100 hotel credit. This one also has a two night minimum, which I find very annoying. It's also not $100 up front. It is $50 split into each half of the year.

[Megan Coyle]

This part I really don't like about it. I find the Chase Sapphire Preferred Hotel Credit very easy to use. There's no minimum for how many nights. I literally use it every year for one single night at an airport hotel. That's just like what it was meant for, I feel like.

[Sally French]

Fair enough. There's also the $495 annual fee built Palladium card. That one earns two built points per dollar on all purchases outside of of course the mortgage rent payments. Like we have been saying. I think this is pretty similar to the Capital One Venture X card which I am a fan of, as you know. And our colleague Ben did write a very compelling article about the two. We will link to that in the episode description.

[Megan Coyle]

It's a really good rundown. The two points per dollar is, is the huge selling point on this card because you accumulate points very quickly.

[Sally French]

We also got to talk about lounges. You know, I love lounges and the Capital One lounges are so far superior. The Built Palladium card does give you and two guests complimentary access to Priority Pass lounges. I think we've said this a lot on the show, but these lounges are super hit or miss. Usually super crowded. Usually you're like, thank you for this Diet Coke and cube of cheese. Whereas the Capital One lounges are like, we got caviar. So I'm not super excited about the Priority Pass benefit. The Palladium card.

[Megan Coyle]

Right. And we should mention that the Capital One Venture X card will get you complimentary access to those Capital One lounges we love so much. But I will say the two guests for Priority Pass Lounges is pretty sweet.

[Sally French]

Yes, that's true. And remember, Capital One is changing its guest access policy for the Capital Adventure X card coming up so soon. That is February 1st. They will now charge for Priority Pass guests.

[Megan Coyle]

So if you do want to bring, you know, your whole family, like, you know, I love to bring my whole family. My Capital one venture the go bringing.

[Sally French]

In 12 people on one card.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. Then this card might actually work better for families or people who are just traveling with people a lot. But again, like, do you really want to bring them new Priority Pass lounge? Like maybe not in the U.S. i don't know. Depends what yours looks like at your airport.

[Sally French]

And then also going back to all these coupon book credits that are very stressful to use the Built Palladium card has its own set of those. There is a $400 hotel credit that is again split into half for the first first and half for the second half of the year. So $200 per half of the year. They also give you $200 in Bilt cash annually. So again that's what you're using to pay for these random merchants that Built has decided you can spend your built cash on Shadowberries similar to the Capital One Venture X's travel credit and their 10,000 mile anniversary bonus. If you use the hotel credit and the $200 in built cash. If you seriously are taking all these lifts or doing all these berries classes, you can make up for the annual fee based on that alone. We also got to mention the sign up Bonus. It is 50,000 built points plus automatic gold status after spending $4,000 on everyday purchases in the first three months plus you get $300 of built cash. Reminder Since NerdWallet values built points at 1.8 cents apiece, I'll just do the math for you. That bonus is worth twelve hundred dollars.

[Megan Coyle]

So we did all of that. And remember, on top of all of that, every single purchase that's not rent or mortgage payment earns the 4% cash back. So even when you don't think about the mortgage and rent payments part of this, these are really decent earning rates.

[Sally French]

We do need to talk about Bilt Transfer partners. We have been getting Alaska a lot of love on this show but we should mention a few of the others. What else do you use this for?

[Megan Coyle]

Ooh, a strong list of Bilt transfer partners here. My favorite of them is World of Hyatt. They are also transfer partner of Chase Ultimate Rewards and and I have used World of Hyatt points for a bunch of hotels I've stayed at recently including an all inclusive in Big Sur just last month so.

[Sally French]

Oh I saw that.

[Megan Coyle]

That was really fun.

[Sally French]

Shout out Alila thank you for not inviting me Megan.

[Megan Coyle]

Sorry it was supposed to be a romantic weekend away. I thought my boyfriend was gonna propose but he didn't. I was like and he has been.

[Sally French]

Put on blessed on the Built podcast episode. Does he listen?

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, he'll listen. And he knows. He knows where I've been getting a.

[Sean Pyles]

Lot of.

[Sally French]

For it. What are the other bill transfer partners?

[Megan Coyle]

They also have Japan Airlines at a really good one to one transfer ratio. United, Southwest, a lot of the major hotel programs, ihg, Marriott, Hilton and a lot of those great international airline partners that you can use those to book cheaper domestic flights even or better international Redemptions. So Avianca flying blue for KLM and Air France, Air Canada. These are not all of them. Sally, you're the one who updated that story with the big list, so I.

[Sally French]

Wanted to make you name them.

[Megan Coyle]

You are very familiar.

[Sally French]

The one that we really got to hammer home though is Atmos Rewards. And I know there's a lot of listeners out there who say I don't even fly Alaska. Alaska does not fly out of my airport. I don't care. But Megan, why should they care?

[Megan Coyle]

At most rewards has some of the best rates on lights in the one world alliance and they fly a ton of places. If you are trying to get to Asia, Atmos coast rewards program has tons of different redemption options there that are very affordable. And I want to say, you know, Alaska Airlines and their partner Hawaiian Airlines, they're both in this loyalty program. A lot of people think that these are very west coast heavy airlines, but I have been able to book some really excellent award flights for other people that live on the east coast. So my dad and I went on a trip together. I used Alaska points to book him a flight from Wilmington, North Carolina to Dublin, Ireland. We did not touch the west coast at all.

[Sally French]

You know, and he also did not do this on an Alaska plane. I'm assuming you were on another airline. You just booked it on these Atmos Rewards points.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. So I used Atmos rewards points to book him premium economy on American Airlines. And sure, it's not the fanciest thing ever, but it was 35,000 Atmos rewards points. American was charging 90,000 points for that same seat.

[Sally French]

Suffice to say we love built transfer partners.

[Megan Coyle]

Yes.

[Sally French]

So, Megan, I kind of feel like I'm sold. Should I get one of these built cards?

[Megan Coyle]

I don't know. What do you think after hearing all the math? I mean, as a mortgage payer yourself.

[Sally French]

Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

Would you be interested in earning a couple more points that you could transfer to Alaska or Hyatt or any of these other partners?

[Sally French]

Yes, because it seems like the overall rate is much higher and I really hate how they make you screw around with this very complicated built cash built re system. I hate having built cash that I can only spend on certain things. I will not be the person who super optimizes it to get that full value because I don't even value a $40 berries class at $40. Right. It's like negative $40 if I got to work out. But, but, but I do like the idea of still getting some value and then also paying my mortgage with it to get some additional value, not as much as what the super maximizers could, and shout out, super maximizers. I know they listen to the show. If that is you, I love that. It is, though, a lot of work. And it's not work that I'm willing to put in, but if it is work that you are able to put in, then that is amazing and go for it. I just always say there is an opportunity cost to your own mental gymnastics and your mental sanity of remembering to spend this money. Absolutely.

[Megan Coyle]

And I also think it's fine to say, you know, there's a limit to how much mental gymnastics you're willing to do. If you do not want any part of this and you don't need access to these transfer partners, then that's fine. Opt out of built 2.0. You do not have to get a card. You could join the program and just earn points without getting one of these build cards. So that's always an option. I also think you have to think about how these cards might fit into your entire wallet.

[Sally French]

Right.

[Megan Coyle]

Like, I'm okay doing the tracking necessary to get maximum value out of my Amex Platinum, for example. A card that we talk about a lot on this show has all these different credits I have to use by all these different dates. That kind of stuff I'm willing to do. Am I willing to spend my built cash for a bunch of Lyft credits all the time? I don't know. I have a car, so I don't even use Lyft that much. So I think it's okay to say, hey, I'm already paying a lot of annual fees for something else. I'm already tracking a lot of things for something else. So I might not go with the Palladium card, even if it does have such a high rewards rate. You know what I mean?

[Sally French]

So, Megan, you currently have the Wells Fargo version of the card, and you have to choose what you're going to do next. You have to choose one of these three cards or maybe just ditch entirely. What are you thinking?

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, my goodness. I am really in a dilemma here. We've done so much work in the past week on this build 2.0 launch, and I am attracted to the signup offer. 50,000 built points plus the built cash on the built Palladium card. That seems reasonable to me. I also think I could do the Obsidian card and like I said, get the grocery bonus because I don't have a card that does that right now. So I'm between those two for me personally, and I'm we'll see where we end up. Check back in in two weeks. I have until January 30th to choose a new card or get out of built 2.0. And if I do it by January 30th, the transition will be a little bit easier. You get to keep your card number, which is convenient, and there won't be any hard credit inquiries. So if you are also a built World Elite MasterCard holder, just be aware of that date. It's coming up soon.

[Sally French]

Wow. All right. And listeners, I want to hear from you. And we have heard from some listeners not yet about Build, because this episode just came out. But we have a great listener question from actually one of our producers, Hillary. She is traveling to Green in May with her mom and she has a ton of Delta sky miles and Capital One miles. She wants to know what is the best way to get to Greece on her miles.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay. I'm a huge advocate for traveling with your parents. After that trip I went on, I have my dad. So that's gonna be really sweet. Hillary, for you, I would look at the Capital One transfer bonus to Avianca that's running right now through February 12, and you could transfer your Capital One miles to Avianca to book Turkish Airlines lines for 34,000 miles in economy with just one stop in Istanbul. So that's decent if you're okay with an economy seat. And then I think if she's trying to book like business or something nice for her and her mom, I would maybe wait a little bit longer to find some of those better redemptions. I'm thinking Emirates or Air Canada might offer some really well priced business class redemptions. Degrees Greece.

[Sally French]

I will also give a shout out to the episode that we did with Craig on Points transfer tools because I am a recent convert. I have found so many great flights using these tools. These are things like points. Yeah. Where you can just type in where you want to go. So Greece or wherever you're headed, Hillary, and you can enter in the currency that you have. So Capital One miles or whatever you've got, and they will show you all sorts of flights. So rather than having to go on Avianca individually and look for their flights or Turkish Airlines individually, I am a convert for these tools. I know these tools do have fees. They're like 10 or $20. My time is worth so much more than 10 or $20. So I just want to give a shout out to something like points. Yeah. Listen to our show about points tools because that is really where I think you'll Find the best redemptions.

[Megan Coyle]

Hillary and Sally, do you have any tips for Greece? You were just there, right?

[Sally French]

I was just there, but I did not fly there. I flew to Turkey and I flew there using other miles. So my other. Okay. Actually thank you for asking because my tip is that if you are going to Greece, you don't necess need to fly to Greece. I would say if you are going to Greece, fly to the cheapest place in Europe that you can get to that is then easy to get to Greece. So maybe you fly into Rome and then you can get an easy route from Rome onwards to Greece. And that would be so much better than trying to stretch yourself to get to Athens. Because I know Athens does not have a ton of international flights.

[Megan Coyle]

In fact, I think this trick is called the Greek Islands trick, Sally, the one you just described. You're right.

[Sally French]

You're right. It's like fly somewhere close.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. And then book a cheap flight to get to where you really want to go. And maybe it might be one of the Greek islands, who knows. All right, if you also want your question answered on the show, send us an email traveldwallet.com we also just started posting on Smart Travel Pod on Instagram and TikTok, so follow us there. And we're watching our DMs so I guess you could send us a message there as well.

[Sally French]

You definitely can. We want to hear from you. You can send a voice memo, tell us how you feel about Bilt. We want to know. We have been posting tons of videos about Bilt on our Instagram and TikTok so can also just comment your thoughts on Built and then everyone can see them. So that would also be super fun if you do that of course. Also make sure to follow Smart Travel on your favorite podcast app that includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts and iHeartRadio. That way you can automatically download new episodes and if you are listening to the show on Spotify you can comment on this specific episode right in the app.

[Megan Coyle]

This episode was produced by Tess Viglin and Nick Karisimi Mixed our audio. A big thank you to Claire Socie and Hillary Georgie. They fact checked this at the very last minute it and helped us get all of these built things right.

[Sally French]

So thank you so much and of course our disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes. It may not apply to your specific circumstances.

[Megan Coyle]

We hope you're inspired to keep your passport full and your wallet even fuller. Thanks everyone. We'll see you next time.

[Sally French]

Foreign.

[Megan Coyle]

So keep pace with the Daily Crunch podcast from TechCrunch. With new episodes every day, this podcast will give you a quick overview on everything you need and should know about startups, new tech regulations, and more. Listen to TechCrunch Daily Crunch now. Wherever you get your podcasts, that's TechCrunch Daily Crunch. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sally French]

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[Megan Coyle]

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[Sally French]

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[Megan Coyle]

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[Sally French]

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[Sean Pyles]

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