Car Prices, Tariffs, and Trade-Offs: What to Know Before You Buy or Move Out

Summary

NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast: "Car Prices, Tariffs, and Trade-Offs: What to Know Before You Buy or Move Out"

Release Date: April 10, 2025

In this episode of NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, hosts Sean Pyles, CFP®, Elizabeth Ayola, and guest Amanda Barroso delve into the intricate dynamics of car prices influenced by tariffs and explore the delicate balance between financial optimization and personal life decisions, such as moving out of one's parents' home. The episode is divided into two main segments: a Money News Roundup addressing the latest developments in tariffs affecting the automotive industry, and a listener Q&A focusing on personal finance strategies.

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1. Money News Roundup: Tariffs and Their Impact on Car Prices

Overview of Current Tariffs: Sean Pyles opens the discussion by highlighting the pervasive impact of tariffs on consumer goods, particularly automobiles. Elizabeth Ayola emphasizes the new reality of tariffs, stating, “they have the potential to affect just about everything we buy, including, perhaps most expensively, cars” [00:05].

Detailed Breakdown with Expert Insights: Ana Helhoski, a money news correspondent, introduces Shannon Bradley, an auto writer, who provides an in-depth analysis of the current tariff landscape. She explains, “On March 26, Trump announced that he would add a 25% tariff on finished cars that are imported into the United States” [02:32]. Shannon elaborates on the specifics:

• Finished Vehicles: A 25% tariff on imported passenger cars and light trucks is already in effect.
• Auto Parts: An additional 25% tariff on imported auto parts, effective May 3rd, includes crucial components like engines and transmissions [04:02].
• Steel and Aluminum: Existing 25% tariffs on imported steel and aluminum further complicate production costs [04:02].
• China Imports: Reciprocal tariffs on imports from China have been doubled to 20%, with an additional 34% applied to auto-related materials [04:02].

Market Reactions and Consumer Impact: Shannon Bradley discusses the immediate consequences of these tariffs on car prices. “If you're importing a vehicle with a declared value of $50,000 and it has a 25% tariff rate, then the tariff owed would be $12,500” [07:58]. Analysts like S&P Global Mobility project that a 25% tariff could increase the average car price from $25,000 to $31,250 [08:36].

Automakers’ Responses: The Big Three automakers—General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis—have reacted by attempting to secure exemptions for USMCA-compliant vehicles and some have initiated promotional campaigns to retain customers. Shannon notes, “Ford's response was they rolled out a From America for America campaign with employee pricing for all shoppers through June 2nd” [06:19].

Consumer Guidance: Shannon Bradley advises consumers intending to purchase a car in the near future to act promptly. “If you intend to buy a car in the next few years, whether it's new or used, the time to do it is now” [12:19]. She predicts that once the current tariff-impacted inventory is depleted, consumers will start noticing price increases within approximately two months [09:56].

Used Car Market Implications: The episode also touches on the ripple effects in the used car market. Shannon warns of increased demand and reduced supply, leading to higher prices for both new and used vehicles [10:31]. The surge in sales following the tariff announcement indicates a swift consumer response aimed at mitigating further price hikes [11:31].

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2. Listener Q&A: Balancing Financial Goals and Personal Life Choices

Introducing the Listener's Dilemma: The hosts transition to a listener question from Chris, a 23-year-old with a substantial net worth of approximately $190,000 and zero debt. Chris is grappling with the decision to move out of their parents' home, which would involve nearly $2,000 a month in rent, versus continuing to invest and save aggressively. The crux of Chris's dilemma is finding a balance between financial optimization and enriching life experiences [14:59].

Expert Advice from Amanda Barroso: Amanda Barroso offers a structured approach to Chris’s situation. She recommends leveraging the 50/30/20 budgeting framework:

• 50% for needs (rent, groceries, utilities)
• 30% for wants (travel, dining out)
• 20% for savings and investments [16:17]. Amanda suggests that Chris could adjust these percentages based on their high-income status, perhaps allocating more towards needs or personal wants to allow for greater life satisfaction [16:52].

Strategic Budgeting and Goal Setting: Sean Pyles underscores the importance of intentional spending. He advises Chris to create multiple budget scenarios, such as living with roommates or having a smaller apartment, to visualize different lifestyles without compromising long-term financial goals [18:00]. Amanda adds that defining personal goals is crucial, encouraging Chris to map out desired life experiences and allocate funds accordingly [22:48].

Credit Score Considerations: Amanda highlights the significance of a robust credit score, especially for those planning to move out. She points out that without rent or utility payments in their name, Chris might have a "thin credit file," which could pose challenges in the future. She recommends strategies like becoming an authorized user on parents' credit cards or using rent reporting services to bolster credit history [20:36].

Personal Anecdotes and Learning from Mistakes: The hosts and Amanda share personal stories about financial mistakes to illustrate the importance of balanced financial planning:

• Amanda recounts overspending early in her career despite a significant salary increase, leading to debt [26:20].
• Elizabeth Ayola reflects on her struggle with low income and underinvestment, emphasizing the importance of negotiating salaries and investing earlier [27:40].
• Sean Pyles shares his experience of financial negligence during his early 20s, highlighting the transition to proactive financial management [28:45].

Final Takeaways: The conversation culminates in reinforcing that money should be a tool for achieving personal happiness and life goals, not merely for accumulation. Amanda advises maintaining a strong credit score and intentional spending habits, while Sean emphasizes the importance of defining personal values and goals to guide financial decisions [33:14].

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Key Quotes and Timestamps:

• Elizabeth Ayola: “But it's our new reality, Sean, and they have the potential to affect just about everything we buy, including, perhaps most expensively, cars.” [00:05]

• Shannon Bradley: “If you're importing a vehicle with a declared value of $50,000 and it has a 25% tariff rate, then the tariff owed would be $12,500.” [07:58]

• Shannon Bradley: “If you intend to buy a car in the next few years, whether it's new or used, the time to do it is now.” [12:19]

• Amanda Barroso: “Your money is just a tool to get you what you want in life.” [22:23]

• Amanda Barroso: “If Kris decides to move out, they can get credit for on time rental payments through a rent reporting service, which will help continue to build up their credit file.” [21:00]

• Sean Pyles: “It's not our job to tell Chris what to do with their money. We're just here to provide context and information so people can make their own informed decisions.” [32:22]

• Amanda Barroso: “Check your credit score always and always...” [33:14]

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Conclusion:

This episode of NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast effectively navigates the complexities of how recent tariff implementations are reshaping the automotive market and offers pragmatic advice for young individuals like Chris who seek to balance financial prudence with personal growth and independence. By combining expert analysis, practical budgeting frameworks, and personal experiences, the hosts provide listeners with the tools and insights needed to make informed financial decisions that align with their life goals.

Transcript

[Sean Pyles]

Elizabeth, I don't know about you, but if I never hear the word tariff again, it will be too soon.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

But it's our new reality, Sean, and they have the potential to affect just about everything we buy, including, perhaps most expensively, cars.

[Sean Pyles]

Tariffs are driving up the cost of all kinds of goods, including ones we drive. So we're going to talk about how to manage that cost. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And I'm Elizabeth Ayola.

[Sean Pyles]

This episode, we're talking about letting loose a little with your money. When you're ahead of the savings game, it doesn't always have to be about frugality. But first, our weekly Money news roundup where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Unless you've been living in the desert for the last few weeks, you know we are in a new era of tariffs. President Trump has called tariff, quote, the most beautiful word in the dictionary. And he's followed through with one of the most significant trade wars in modern history.

[Sean Pyles]

Our news colleague Anna Helhoski is here with more. Give us the scoop, Ana.

[Ana Helhoski]

Hey, Sean. Well, frankly, my anxiety is at a 10 right now with the back and forth nature of these tariff proclamations. I can also say as someone closely tracking the tariffs, that the information coming out of the White House is changing to too quickly to keep up. It's been chaotic to say the least, and it's producing a lot of uncertainty for the public, for businesses, the markets, and within the government. And just remember, we haven't even begun to see the economic effects settle in.

[Sean Pyles]

And we know that many folks listening might be feeling nervous seeing how the stock market has behaved over the last week. Many might be wondering what this means for their retirement or if they should change their investment strategy. I know this can all feel really confusing or scary, and I want to take a moment to acknowledge that those feelings are valid. But as the certified financial planner professional in your ear, I want to emphasize the importance of not making rash decisions and remembering that while this time might feel different, so does every time something tumultuous happens to the economy. The best thing to do is focus on the long term, maybe back away from checking your 401k balance if that's going to make you anxious and continue to stay informed, which is what we're doing day in, day out on Smart Money, keeping you up to date on the latest financial news so that you can make smart decisions about your money and your life. With all that said, Ana, what should folks be paying attention to right now?

[Ana Helhoski]

There are a lot of moving pieces, but today, let's zero in on one of them. On March 26, Trump announced that he would add a 25% tariff on finished cars that are imported into the United States. That tariff is now in effect and an additional 25% tariff will go into effect on auto parts no later than May 3rd. I have some nagging questions about auto tariffs, so I'm hoping Shannon Bradley, an auto writer here at NerdWallet, can answer some of them. Hey, Shannon.

[Shannon Bradley]

Hi, Ana. Thanks for having me on today.

[Ana Helhoski]

I'm hoping you can start out by talking about car market prices over the last few years.

[Shannon Bradley]

Up to now, it's been quite a few years, going back to 2021 when the pandemic caused car prices to really reach record highs. And that was because of supply chain disruptions and vehicle shortages. And that continued on till by the end of 2022, the average new car price was nearly $50,000. Over the last few years, the car market started to recover, but average new car prices still stayed around 48 to $49,000. So, you know, there's still about $10,000 over what they were before COVID hit. But I think a lot of people like me were hopeful that the market was returning to normal and that cars would become more affordable again. But then that normal was just disrupted by tariffs.

[Ana Helhoski]

Shannon, what did the auto tariffs specifically include?

[Shannon Bradley]

A lot. I'll try to walk through this. You know, you already mentioned the 25% tariff on imported passenger cars and light trucks. And, and that's already in effect. However, vehicles coming from Mexico or Canada that comply with the U.S. mexico, Canada Trade Agreement, the 25% tariff on those will only apply to content in the car that isn't US made. Then by May 3, we will also have a 25% tariff on imported parts, which includes key components like engines, transmissions and powertrain parts. Then we have other tariffs that could affect car production, like a 25% tariff that's already in effect on imported steel and aluminum. And then I think the big one would be the duties on imports from China, which could include a lot of other materials to build cars. Originally, tariffs on China imports were doubled to 20%. Then the so called reciprocal tariffs on global trade partners announced last week added another 34% for China. You know, really the only good news in all of this is that, you know, we also found out when the reciprocal tariffs were announced that at least those would not be on top of all of these other tariffs for autos, auto parts, steel and aluminum.

[Ana Helhoski]

Why is Trump targeting automobiles specifically?

[Shannon Bradley]

He says, and you know, there is a level of truth that with free trade, you know, a lot of production has moved to other countries. So his belief is that by having these tariffs, it will bring vehicle manufacturing back to the U.S. whether in building new plants or bringing production back to idle plants. His reasoning is that increased production and competition in the US Would eventually, and I say eventually, lower car prices for consumers. But automakers have said that moving production or building new plants can take years. In the meantime, car prices are going to go up for consumers. And to that, what Trump said on NBC's Meet the Press is that, quote, he couldn't care less if automakers raised price prices because people are going to start buying American made cars.

[Ana Helhoski]

And what's the response been like from the Big three auto manufacturers?

[Shannon Bradley]

Well, the Big three, and I think most people know that's General Motors, Ford and Stellantis, which was formerly Chrysler. When the threat of tariffs ramped up earlier in the year, Ford's CEO was quoted as saying that tariffs could blow a hole in the US auto industry. Then in March, when the 25% tariffs were announced on all imports from Mexico and Canada, the Big three, they did successfully lobby for an exemption for USMCA compliant vehicles and eventually other products. But you know, that still means that non USMCA vehicles and parts are subject to both the 25% auto tariff and the 25% Canada, Mexico duty. And I think a lot of people thought he wasn't really going to do all of this. So reality is setting in. The day tariffs went into the reaction from the Big three, I'm not sure what word to use it was in a sense kind of confusing because Ford's response was they rolled out a From America for America campaign with employee pricing for all shoppers through June 2nd. That same day, Stellantis announced it's idling some assembly plants in Mexico and Canada and temporarily laying off about 900 U.S. employees who make components for those plants. But then they also have since joined Ford in offering employee discounts to the public.

[Ana Helhoski]

Now, almost half of all vehicles sold in the US Are imported. The top suppliers of imported cars are, in descending order, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, Canada and Germany. Can you give an example of how a tariff might work on a finished vehicle that's imported from one of these countries?

[Shannon Bradley]

I'm going to give you a very simplified explanation. The tariff percentage for that particular country. It's applied to what's called the declared declared value of the car, which usually includes the car's cost, shipping and insurance. So for example, if you're importing a vehicle with a declared value of $50,000 and it has a 25% tariff rate, then the tariff owed would be 12,500 and the importer of that car would pay that when the car enters the country. And then typically some or all of that cost would be passed on to the consumer buying that vehicle.

[Ana Helhoski]

An analysis by S and P Global Mobility projected that 25% tariffs on imported vehicles from Mexico or Canada could increase the average $25,000 price of a car by $6,250. Does that seem accurate from your reporting? Are there any other projections out there?

[Shannon Bradley]

Yes, it does. I've heard similar cost increases projected from other analysts. But you have to keep in mind that these are averages. So many factors come into play that vary from model to model. And one number that I've heard that I think kind of, you know, takes into account the different models of cars was put out by Andersen Economic Group, a consultancy firm. And they've analyzed that vehicles with the lowest and highest potential tariff impact to project the cost increases for a consumer. And their estimate is that for the lowest tariff American cars, the expected additional cost would be about 2,500 to $5,000. And for the highest tariff imports, that cost could increase up to $20,000.

[Ana Helhoski]

What kind of effects on vehicles can consumers expect and how quickly are dealerships expected to start increasing prices? As in how long will it take to work its way through the production chain?

[Shannon Bradley]

So vehicles on lots now shouldn't be subjected to tariffs. So you know, if a dealer hikes the price now and says it's due to tariffs, they're taking advantage of the situation. Once dealers work through the pre tariff supply that they have now, consumers will start to see price increases. And as of April 1, new car inventory was at 66 market days of supply. But that doesn't account for spike in demand. But I would say in general, people have about two months before they start to see new car prices rise.

[Ana Helhoski]

What about used cars? Could the tariffs somehow affect those? Are used cars imported from other countries and will there be more demand for used cars that are already in the U.S. yes.

[Shannon Bradley]

You know, tariffs could affect used cars and buyers in several ways historically, and we saw this during the pandemic, when new car supply dwindles and prices rise, people turn to used cars, then that supply starts to drop and that pushes demand and increases those prices. Also, there aren't as many newer model used cars available, so buyers end up having to settle for older, higher mileage used cars. And complicating matters right now is that the supply of used cars is already tight because we're already seeing fewer off lease vehicles being returned and more people already buying used cars when they can't afford today's new car prices.

[Ana Helhoski]

Does it also seem likely that there'll be a surge in demand over the next few weeks that could also increase prices?

[Shannon Bradley]

Actually, we're already seeing an increase in demand for both used and new cars. Right after the March 26 announcement about tariffs, there was a jump and you know, people are buying new cars that are already on lots to avoid tariffs. Then the company Cargurus noted that there was a surge in new car sales, which pushed the estimated new car retail sales up nearly 30% month over month toward the end of March. And you know, these sales numbers I think show consumers are hurrying to buy used cars as well before inventory tightens more than it already is.

[Ana Helhoski]

So there's still uncertainty ahead. Trump has ordered tariffs, then pulled them back time and again. Then again, this one might stick. So the big question is, should people buy a car now?

[Shannon Bradley]

Trying to stay on top of this. I've been attending a lot of auto industry calls and webinars, and there's one thing that I am consistently hearing from economists and other experts is that if you intend to buy a car in the next few years, whether it's new or used, the time to do it is now. I think some people have still been waiting, you know, since prices shot up during the pandemic, hoping that car prices and auto loan rates would get closer to what they were five years ago. But if these tariffs do stick, the cost of buying a car, it's only going to go up.

[Ana Helhoski]

Thanks for walking us through that, Shannon.

[Shannon Bradley]

Well, thanks for having me on and giving me an opportunity to try to clarify some of this because it really is hard to keep track.

[Sean Pyles]

And thank you, Ana.

[Ana Helhoski]

Thanks, Shawn.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Up next, we answer a listener's question about whether it's okay to loosen the strings a bit when you've amassed significant savings and want to move out of your parents house. But before we get into that, a reminder listener to send us your money questions. Maybe you're wondering what the recent stock market crashes might mean for your finances and how you can get ahead of a potential recession. Leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-nerd. Or email [e-mail] and we have an.

[Sean Pyles]

Exciting announcement before we move on. We're running another Book Giveaway sweepstakes ahead of our next Nerdy Book Club episode in a few weeks. We're talking with Asia Evans, author of Feel Good Untangle your relationship with Money for better mental, emotional and financial well being.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

To enter for a chance to win our book giveaway, send an email to podcasterdwallet.com with the subject Book Sweepstakes during the sweepstakes period. Entries must be received by 11:59pm Pacific Time on May 7th. Include the following your first and last name, email address, zip code and your phone number. For more information, please visit our official Sweepstakes Rules page.

[Sean Pyles]

All right, let's get to this episode's Money question segment. That's up next. Stay with us.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Hey, guess what? Smart Money is a finalist in the 2025 Webby Awards and you can help us win. Just head to vote.webbyawards.com register real quick and vote for us in the Best Individual Podcast Episode Business category. It's free, it's fast, and unlike borrowing your neighbor's WI fi, totally guilt free. You've got until April 17th to cash your vote one more time.

[Sean Pyles]

That's vote.webbyawards.com we're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from Chris, who sent us a text message. Here it is Chris here. I'm 23 years old with a roughly $190,000 net worth and zero debt due to living at home the past couple of years post college with a high income. I would like to move out eventually to become more independent. However, it is hard to justify spending nearly $2,000 a month on rent when I could continue to invest more and build even more of a nest egg. How do you balance and justify life experiences such as moving out versus simply optimizing finances and saving as much as possible? At what point can someone cool the brakes on saving, investing aggressively if they have a head start? For example, about $120,000 in diversified investments, retirements and a fully funded emergency fund? How can someone balance the desire for financial freedom with the potential trade offs of missing out on life experiences or personal growth opportunities due to being overly focused on saving and investing?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

To help us answer Chris's question on this episode of the podcast, we are joined by personal finance writer Amanda Barroso. Amanda, welcome back to smart money.

[Amanda Barroso]

Thanks for having me back, you guys.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I'm loving this question. We have a really unique situation with our listener here today. Financially, they appear to be doing everything well, and it almost feels like they're doing everything too well. So I know I was a hot mess in my early 20s, but it seems like the listener is hyper focused on saving and investing at the expense of just living their life, which is pretty much the opposite financial problem that most people have. But it does seem like Chris wants to change their habits and use their money to live their life. How do you, Amanda, think Chris can begin to rethink how they're using their money?

[Amanda Barroso]

You're right. This is such an interesting question. And kind of like you, Elizabeth. My financial profile looked nothing like Chris's when I was their age. I think I'd start with thinking about how their budget might shift if they decide to move out. NerdWallet recommends everyone have a budget. The 50, 30, 20 is sort of an ideal. With this framework, 50% of your take home pay goes toward needs like rent, groceries, transportation, utilities. 30% goes toward wants, travel, eating out, shopping, streaming memberships, gym memberships, that kind of thing. And 20% goes towards savings and additional debt repayments. So if I were Chris, I'd start by researching fixed costs, things that you know are going to be stable month to month like rent, utilities, and kind of plugging them into this budgeting framework. They can play around with the categories a little bit. If they're in a high cost of living area, maybe 60% of their take home pay needs to go toward necessities, leaving 20% for want and 20% for savings and debt repayment. So, like, there's some flexibility there, but the point is to start crafting a budget that they can stick to.

[Sean Pyles]

And I get the feeling that Chris isn't someone who can just throw caution to the wind and spend their money freely. In that case, Amanda, your suggestion to try out budgeting could help them spend their money intentionally and allocate some of their money to the life experiences that they might be missing out on while still saving for retirement and other investment goals. What do you think about that?

[Amanda Barroso]

I think that's exactly what a budget is for. Like, intentionality is a great word. In an uncertain economy, it can be really scary to spend money because it feels like you're eroding some of that safety net that you've worked really hard to build. But if you've made a budget and you've built up an emergency fund with, let's say roughly six months of living expenses you're saving for retirement, for example, taking advantage of an employer, 401k match or something like that, and you're paying down your debts. Or in Chris's case, you have zero debts. Then you can also give yourself permission to spend on things that fill your cup. It might also be important for Chris to set a threshold so you know, how much money could they save that would make them feel safe to move out? Does the limit even exist? Right, like that might be an important question to ask. I know it feels like we have to be sitting on fat stacks of cash to simply exist these days, but there are some real benefits to moving out, even if it does cost, let's say, $2,000 a month in rent like they suggest. Privacy, independence and simply being accountable to only yourself can be an important part of adulthood for some people. And maybe it's as simple as Chris asking their parents, hey, if this doesn't feel right, if it doesn't work out, can I come back? Having that safety net could make this feel less like a financial risk and more like a step toward building the life they want.

[Sean Pyles]

That's a really good point because oftentimes people think that when they make a decision, it is irreversible and they're stuck with it. But in reality, it's often not the exact decision that you make, but what you do with that decision and how you grow from it and maybe pivot from it, that can help you long term. But in general, I kind of get the sense that Chris is maybe a pretty numbers focused person and likes to map out their finances in detail. In that case, they could put together maybe a few mock budgets for different scenarios and different lifestyles. One could be having a studio apartment, another could be having roommates. Another could be both of those options, but where they have a vacation a few times a year, that might make the idea of enjoying life and spending money a little more concrete. Amanda, I'm wondering if there are any other financial fundamentals that you think Chris should acquaint themselves with before making a big change, like moving out of their parents place.

[Amanda Barroso]

As the credit scoring writer in residence here at NerdWallet, I would be remiss if I didn't come on here and say, hey, Kris, what's your credit score? That's one thing that wasn't mentioned as part of this larger financial portfolio. And so if they have no rent or mortgage payment, they have no utility bills in their name, no debt like a car or a student loan, then I'm Wondering what their credit file looks like. It might be what's called a thin credit file or a credit report with fewer than five accounts. So basically what this means is that there might not be enough information in their credit reports to generate a credit score. And this could really be a problem when they go to rent an apartment down the line, for example. So if Kris has a thin file or if their score is lower than they like, it's a good idea to spend some time building it. There are some simple things that they can do, like they can become an authorized user on their parents credit cards, assuming that they're making regular on time payments and that they have a healthy and trusting relationship with their parents. Maybe even putting a utility bill or two in their name and making sure that they're paying those on time can sort of help in the short term. If Kris decides to move out, they can get credit for on time rental payments through a rent reporting service, which will help continue to build up their credit file. So either way, a strong credit score is a gateway to tons of financial products and services. Many people aim for a perfect credit score, which is 850 on a scale of 300 to 850. But scores fluctuate all the time, almost constantly, and so it's kind of like trying to hit a moving target. Instead, I would suggest that Chris focus on the reliable habits that are proven to build a strong score. So making on time payments, using 30% or less of their available credit, having a mix of credit accounts, and keeping older accounts open to establish that lengthy credit history.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Chris has this pent up desire to just live their life and use their money to do so, but is afraid maybe because they don't know exactly what they would like to do with their life or their money. So defining their personal goals would be an important step for them to take because as we often say on smart money, your money is just a tool to get you what you want in life. So Amanda, how do you think Chris can begin to map out their financial goals?

[Amanda Barroso]

I'm a planner by nature and something that I like to do is to get out a planner or calendar and think about what the next year of my life looks like. You could even do it by quarters. If a year feels too overwhelming, look out at the expanse of time. Have you made time for things that you love doing? For me, I asked myself, am I traveling? Am I going to concerts or soccer games? Am I building in time for friends and hobbies? And what will all this cost me? So if I can get a sense of those things early on, then I can start saving. I personally use Ally for my high Yield savings account, and I've created different savings buckets for some of those wants, like travel and home improvement projects. So this way, I've kind of already given myself the permission to spend on the things that I want.

[Sean Pyles]

I like that idea, Amanda. And knowing what you're going to do in a really specific way can help you when you are someone who likes to control your money a lot, which is how I think Chris tends to operate. But at an even higher level, Chris could benefit from some thought exercises and some introspection about what kind of life they want to live and what they really care about. And at 23, I think it's okay to not have all of the answers there. When I was Chris's age, I had just moved to the Bay Area. I knew pretty much no one besides my twin sister and a childhood friend. And I was just figuring out how to get into the media work that I wanted to do. My life felt like kind of a mess, maybe because I only had like $5 to my name, But I knew some of my passions. I wanted to travel. I wanted to make the most of living in a vibrant city. I wanted a career in media. And everything that I did was with those goals in mind. So I would ask Chris, what do you really care about? What do you enjoy doing? And how are you going to craft a life for yourself where you can pursue your passions and have meaningful experiences?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I love that suggestion, Sean. At 23, I just finished my postgraduate degree. I had moved back to Nigeria for a second time and was also pursuing a media career like you. So I knew little about money management and was just looking at how to survive on what felt like an impossible income at the time. One thing I will say, though, is that I knew what life I wanted to live, but I just wasn't clear about how big of a role finances would play and also how to even create a financial plan. If I'm being completely honest, I just thought one day I would earn enough money and everything would just work itself out. Optimistic, but definitely not a plan. But that said, I wouldn't trade the life experience that I gained from moving to a developing country alone. Having financial stability is important, but those life experiences honestly shaped me.

[Sean Pyles]

Something else I'm picking up on from Chris's question is that they're following a common money script known as money vigilance. With money vigilance, as you might imagine, people are really focused on saving and investing and avoiding spending and Avoiding making financial mistakes, which can be great. But money vigilance can also slip into money hoarding at its most extreme, where you hold on to every dollar and you don't actually enjoy what you've worked hard to earn. Money isn't just there to be accumulated, like we've talked about before. It's really meant to be enjoyed, too. Sometimes that means you make mistakes with your money and you have less of it. But the lessons that you learn from those mistakes have their own value. And I often like to say that one of the best ways to learn lessons is by hearing what others have gone through so you can avoid making those mistakes your and then hearing how they came out on the other end. With that in mind, Amanda, Elizabeth. I'd love to hear about a financial mistake that each of you has made and how that maybe informs the way you manage your money.

[Amanda Barroso]

Today, you just want to air our dirty laundry. Sean. I get it always. All right, so I've made a lot of mistakes, but I'm thinking about a period in my life when I got my first real job out of graduate school and I moved to a brand new state. I had like a big girl's salary for the first time in my life. It basically, like, tripled my grad school stipend. If you're a grad student, you know, it's like pennies on the dollar, right? So, needless to say, I bawled at the mall. I felt rich. I was rolling in it. But I got into debt quickly, and suddenly I felt underwater again. Like it. It didn't even matter that my salary had tripled, right? I was like, why do I feel poor? And looking back, there are so many other things I could have done with that money, including, I don't know, having a budget. I would just sort of pay my bills, and then what was left was what was left. And I use that to shop. So I should have been saving for international travel before kids and starting an investing account. I have regrets about that time period, but I learned a lot. And look at me now. I have a travel sinking fund, I have a retirement account, and I even own a home. Things work themselves out, but it was a learning period for sure. And if I could go back, I would have sat down with my former self and said, girl, you need a.

[Sean Pyles]

Budget and start investing today.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Speaking of investing, I actually was gonna say my biggest mistake was not investing. But as I listened to you talk, Amanda, I had a different thought. And it would be because I was thinking I just was so broke, I didn't have enough money to invest because I was earning in Nigeria, like, the equivalent of $200 a month. And I didn't have any other income but that in my 20s, I spent a lot of time thinking that I didn't deserve to earn a good amount of money. So I never really negotiated my salaries. And I also didn't look for jobs that would pay me a reasonable living. I don't know if that's a mistake or learning, but I definitely would have valued myself more, asked for more money, and done a lot more research into how I could pursue my passions and still make some money while I'm doing it. And then, of course, I would have invested more.

[Amanda Barroso]

I literally negotiated my first salary, like, five years ago. I understand. I think that's common with women, too. It's like we're sort of taught to just be grateful, to get what we can get right. A lot of the discourse around that has shifted, but, like, yes, girl, you are worth the money.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yes, pay me. I'm kidding. What you owe me. Yeah.

[Sean Pyles]

Thinking back on my early 20s, I remember a very long period of time where I would just avoid looking at my bank account. And it wasn't because I had so much I could just get by. It was because I had so little I was afraid to see what was in there. And there were plenty of times where I would go to the grocery store and my debit card would be declined. I didn't even really have a credit card I was using at that point either. So I was just scraping by and hoping that ignorance would indeed be bliss until it became a lot of stress at a certain point. It really took until I started working at NerdWallet and learned about the importance of being proactive and responsible with your money, that I began to have a more healthy relationship and regimen with checking my finances. And now it's a weekly, if not daily, thing of just checking where my balances are. But I learned in a way that I have this impulse in me to avoid problems when I know they're there in the background. And sometimes I still feel that impulse to not check my accounts. And whenever I get that feeling, it's probably because I know that I've spent maybe a little more than I should have. And so now, at this ripe age of 33 years old, I know better, and I get that feeling. I try to push back against it and just check my balance, Rip off the band aid, because it often just makes me feel better afterward.

[Amanda Barroso]

Okay. So, Sean, I want to get your thoughts on part of Chris's question about knowing when you have enough saved and invested and can maybe pump the brakes on those two things since you're Mr. CFP, what do you think about this? Are there any benchmarks that Chris should consider? Any thresholds? What do we need to. No.

[Sean Pyles]

I'm putting on my certified financial planner hat and monocle to answer this question.

[Amanda Barroso]

I imagine it has a feather. It's very fancy.

[Sean Pyles]

The monocle and the hat both have feathers. That's extremely fancy. Well, with the disclaimer that while I may be a certified financial planner professional, I'm not Chris's cfp, let's go back to some key facts that Chris gave us. They're 23 years old. They have a net worth of around $190,000 and no debt. At this really early age, they're doing better than many Americans of pretty much any age. In 2022, the median net worth of all US households was just under $193,000. Now, there's a lot that we don't know about Chris's situation. How much they earn. They said they earn a lot, but what is a lot? How much? They're contributing regular to their retirement account and brokerage accounts. But they did say they have around $120,000 in investments. I use NerdWallet's investment calculator to see what this could grow to if they didn't contribute a single additional dollar. And their investments grew at an average rate of 6%, which is a relatively conservative estimate. So by the time they're 67 in 44 years, their money would grow to a little over $1.5 million. And if they contributed just $100 more each month, that number would grow to just over $1.8 million. So I would say Chris is doing just fine. Room to allocate money to other things, potentially.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

By the way, if you want to play around with the investment calculator that Sean mentioned, you can find a link to it in the description of today's episode. Now, speaking of investments, Chris also asked about finding a balance between their rigorous investing and saving and having life experiences. Do you think they should maybe pull back from saving and investing so much? From my point of view, I think the lifestyle they hope to live during retirement is a big piece to answering that question. 1.5 million doll be enough for one person, while someone else's lifestyle may require $3 million, for instance.

[Sean Pyles]

That's really fair. It's hard to say exactly whether they're on track, quote, unquote, for retirement because we don't know what Chris's goals are, how much they might need to be spending in retirement. And you know, as we often say on Smart Money, it's not our job to tell Chris what to do with their money. We're just here to provide context and information so people can make their own informed decisions. But I will say that it seems like Chris has enough in their retirement and investments and savings to pursue other financial goals without jeopardizing their long term investments. Again, the conversation really does go back to the idea of goals. What does Chris want? Right. We just have this one life and I certainly like spending my money to enrich my life in meaningful ways while I'm alive.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Me too. I'm considering an art class sometime soon. Yes. All right, Any other thoughts you want to leave our listeners with? Amanda, do you have any more gems for us?

[Amanda Barroso]

Well, check your credit score always and always, but I think Chris's story points to that when it comes to money, you can be doing everything technically right but still not feel fulfilled. And that part is up to you. And money is the tool to help you live the life you want. This is what Sean's been telling us over and over, right? So sure there's risk involved, but I think in Chris's case, the risk seems less about financial inability or instability and more about stepping outside their comfort zone and into a potentially unknown but quite beautiful life.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, Amanda, I love that. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts.

[Amanda Barroso]

Thanks for having me, guys.

[Sean Pyles]

That's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we are here to answer your money questions. So turn to the Nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730, nerd. You can also email us at podcast nerdwallet.com follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and it may not apply to your specific circumstances. This episode was produced by Tess Vigeland. Hilary Georgie helped with editing. Nick Karasimi mixed our audio. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

[Sean Pyles]

And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds. Guess what, listener? Smart Money is a finalist in the 2025 Webby Awards and we need your vote to win. Go to vote.webbyawards.com Register real quick and vote for us in the best Individual Podcast Episode Business category. It takes a minute, makes our day, and lets you say, yeah, I helped pick that winner. Voting ends April 17th. One more time. That's vote webyawards. Com.