Podcast Summary: NerdWallet’s Smart Money Podcast

Episode: Ditch Your Money Trauma So You Can Live an Abundant Life (with Shannah Game)
Date: December 29, 2025
Hosts: Sean Pyles, CFP® (Sean), Elizabeth Ayoola (Elizabeth)
Guest: Shannah Game (host, Everyone's Talking Money; author, "Unraveling Your Relationship with Money")

Overview

This episode addresses the deep-seated emotional and behavioral patterns we all hold about money—what Shannah Game calls our “relationship with money.” The conversation explores how understanding your money background helps you break out of unhealthy cycles, create new habits, and move toward an abundant and fulfilling financial life. The episode is divided into two main parts:

1. Interview with Shannah Game about money trauma and rewiring your relationship with finances.
2. Listener Q&A with Katie, a listener navigating saving and investing on a modest income amid a significant life transition.

Section 1: Understanding Your Relationship with Money (00:59 – 17:04)

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Your “Money Relationship” Matters

• Money isn’t just about math; it’s influenced by emotions, behaviors, habits, and the stories we internalize growing up.
  • “We live in this vacuum where we think money is only about math. And it’s really unfortunate because it is about so much more.” (Shannah, 03:53)
• Unhealthy patterns like feeling “stuck” or “toxic” often have hidden roots; exploring them can unlock lasting change.

Facing Money Fear & Shame

• Many people avoid examining their finances due to fear of what they might discover.
  • “We need to tiptoe into this exploration around relationship with money... Don’t take it like I’m going to fix my whole relationship with money in one day. Let’s just take it bite by bite.” (Shannah, 05:09)
• Take the process one step at a time: start by choosing a word that describes your current relationship with money and “dig deeper” into it.

Inner Work vs. Outer Work

• Inner Work: Reflect on childhood experiences and beliefs about money. By age 7, most people’s core money attitudes are set, often subconsciously.
  • “Go back to your earliest memories around money and explore those... see if there’s any patterns between those memories and how you’re interacting with money today.” (Shannah, 07:00)
• Outer Work: Actions like budgeting, saving, and investing build on inner work insights.

Bringing the Unconscious to Light

• Physical sensations (heart racing, sweaty palms, urge to flee) are cues telling you when a financial trauma or belief is triggered.
  • “The body gives us so many clues when it comes to money, but we just don’t tune into that.” (Shannah, 09:35)
• Naming your feelings without judgment is pivotal.

Moving Past Limiting Beliefs

• Acknowledge limiting beliefs (e.g., “I don’t deserve money”), but pair them with small, positive actions (journal, seek financial therapy, start an emergency fund).
  • “When we notice the feeling, we need to acknowledge it... then think about what action step can I pair with this that might help?” (Shannah, 10:30)

The “Goal Gap” & Weekly Money Dates

• The "goal gap" is the tricky space between knowing what you want and getting there.
• Bridging it:
  • Dream freely about your ideal future (using brainstorming, listing, drawing).
  • Regularly track spending in relation to your goals with a weekly “money date” (15 minutes weekly to check in, align spending).
    • “Doing it bit by bit will help you make tremendous progress over a month or a year.” (Sean, 13:22)
    • “Celebrate small wins—looking at your spending is a win, thinking about your future is a win!” (Shannah, 13:34)
• Make the money journey sustainable and enjoyable with rewards for progress.

Keeping the Conversation with Money Going

• Regularly ask yourself: What money story did I learn as a child, and how is it affecting me now?
  • “Keep coming back to what is the story that I learned about money when I was little—how is that influencing the decisions, the behaviors, the actions I’m making?” (Shannah, 14:56)

Notable Quote & Memorable Moment

• First Money Lesson:
  • “The first dollar I ever earned actually came from the tooth fairy... I think what I learned from that is that it doesn’t have to be as difficult as you might believe.” (Shannah, 15:50)

Section 2: Money Question – Saving and Investing on a Tight Income (20:17 – 37:44)

Listener’s Situation: Katie (34), transitioning careers and moving in with her partner, facing reduced income.

Key Points in Katie’s Story

• Used to work multiple seasonal/low-income jobs; now earned ~$52k at a museum, but about to take a $16/hour job at a plant nursery.
• Has saved $9-10k in a high-yield savings account and ~$9k across two 403(b) retirement accounts but feels “late to the game.”
• Wants to know how to prioritize limited savings between emergency fund vs. retirement, and how to manage/integrate multiple retirement accounts.

Advice from the Hosts

On Building an Emergency Fund:

• Calculate “bare bones” expenses—three to six months of basics only (rent, groceries, medicine).
  • “In an ideal world, you would have between three to six months of a bare bones budget covered in your emergency fund.” (Sean, 23:37)

Budgeting with Fluctuating Income:

• Use the 50-30-20 rule as a framework: 50% to needs, 30% to wants, 20% to savings/debt payments.
  • Flexibility is key—adjust as necessary (e.g., 60-20-20 can work in high cost-of-living scenarios).

Saving vs. Investing Small Amounts:

• It’s absolutely worth starting—even small, regular contributions benefit from compound interest.
  • “Investing $25 over investing $0, I think is definitely worthwhile.” (Elizabeth, 28:08)
• Build a minimal emergency fund first (at least $1,000), then split limited savings between emergency fund and retirement investments.

Retirement Account Management:

• You can’t contribute to a 403(b) if you’re no longer with the employer.
• Consider rolling 403(b)s into an IRA, such as a Roth IRA (especially if income is currently low—tax advantages).
  • “You might be able to take more control over your retirement savings if you roll those funds into a new IRA.” (Sean, 31:22)
• Compare fees, fund choices, and services before transferring.

On Career Transitions & Education:

• Consider long-term earning potential—going back to school for a nursing degree could pay off, but weigh short-term debt and opportunity loss.
• Look for ways to increase income over time for greater financial flexibility.

Finances in a Relationship:

• Moving in with a partner is a great time to revisit budgeting, have honest “money dates,” and set shared goals.
  • Katie’s partner owns their home and offers some financial buffer while she transitions, but she values contributing evenly.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You should be proud of what you’ve already done. Saving in your 30’s is not ‘late’—I started at 33 or 34 myself.” (Elizabeth, 22:22)
• “Every little bit counts. And your financial situation is going to change as you progress in your career—so you can increase your contributions then.” (Elizabeth, 33:44)
• “This is a pretty exciting opportunity for you, Katie, because you have a near blank slate with your budget.” (Sean, 26:16)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:08 – 01:41: Hosts reflect on personal money milestones and the importance of community.
• 02:08 – 03:40: Theme: Why understanding your financial behaviors and backstories matters.
• 03:40 – 06:24: Shannah Game describes the importance of uncovering your “money relationship.”
• 06:24 – 10:09: How to explore your money story and tune into body cues.
• 10:09 – 13:34: Turning self-awareness into actionable change; celebrating small wins.
• 13:34 – 15:23: Sustaining healthy money dialogues.
• 15:47 – 16:59: Shannah’s first money memory and its lessons.
• 20:17 – 22:22: Katie’s story—money milestones and transitions.
• 23:13 – 26:16: Calculating emergency fund and budget with new circumstances.
• 28:08 – 31:40: Investing small amounts and managing multiple retirement accounts.
• 33:44 – 37:41: Navigating career change, education, and joint finances in a relationship.

Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is empathetic, encouraging, and nonjudgmental, highlighting both practical strategies and compassionate self-inquiry. The hosts and guest stress that it’s never “too late” to start healing your relationship with money and that even modest steps build momentum. Celebrating progress and maintaining an honest internal dialogue with money are as vital as spreadsheets and interest rates.

Notable Quotes & Their Speakers

• "We live in this vacuum where we think money is only about math. And it’s really unfortunate because it is about so much more."
  — Shannah Game [03:53]
• “The more you like to do something, the more fun it is for you, the more likely you are to keep doing it.”
  — Sean Pyles [14:11]
• “Keep coming back to what is the story that I learned about money when I was little—how is that influencing the decisions, the behaviors, the actions I’m making now?”
  — Shannah Game [14:56]
• “Investing $25 over investing $0, I think is definitely worthwhile.”
  — Elizabeth Ayoola [28:08]

Conclusion

This episode offers both a compassionate and structured toolkit for “unraveling” money trauma, backed by expert advice and real-world listener coaching. Through inner reflection, small but intentional actions, and open-hearted communication (with yourself and loved ones), you can reframe your money story and move toward financial abundance—even in the face of setbacks or scarcity. The hosts encourage you to stay in touch, send your money questions, and remember that small shifts today build the foundation for tomorrow’s abundance.