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NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Does Your Retirement Portfolio Match Your Values? Plus: Apple’s New MacBook Neo
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We talk a lot on this show about values and beliefs and also how figuring out those can help you figure out how to make your money work for you. But sometimes, especially when it comes to investing, it's hard to know whether your money is going to causes and businesses that align with those values and beliefs. Today, we'll look at some ways to do that. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Elizabeth Ayola. Now, later on this episode, Sean and I will be answering a listener's question about values based investing. But first, our weekly Money News Roundup where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money. Our news colleague Rick Vanderkinijf is back for a roundup of consumer tech news.
- [02:27]
D
Hey, thanks Elizabeth it's good to be back. In a moment, NerdWallet personal finance writer Tommy Tindall will join us to talk about tech, including the latest product announcements from Apple. But first, a quick update on the long brewing antitrust lawsuit against Live Nation, the owners of Ticketmaster.
- [02:44]
B
I love going to concerts, so I am very invested in seeing where this goes. But it does feel like this has been going on forever. What's the latest?
- [02:52]
D
Rick yeah, the ticketing giant has long been a company people love to hate. But things really heated up when Ticketmaster had a massive meltdown, back when seats for Taylor Swift's eras tour first went on sale back in 2022. That sparked congressional hearings and finally in 2024, the antitrust suit brought by the Justice Department and eventually joined by 40 states.
- [03:14]
B
So what were the arguments here?
- [03:15]
D
Rick yeah, the government was basically arguing that the company has become too dominant in live music, controlling the venues, the promotions and the ticket sales. That case finally went to trial last week. Out of the blue, a tentative settlement was announced this week. So instead of breaking up the company as some critics hoped, the settlement would make Live nation pay about $200 million to states, cap some ticket fees at its own venues, loosen long term exclusive contracts with venues, and open parts of Ticketmaster's platform to competitors. We'll be diving into this in more detail in this week's edition of Money Nerd, our weekly newsletter. But for now, let's talk about tech news. So I'd like to welcome Tommy to Smart Money. Hey, Tommy.
- [03:56]
E
Hey there. Good to be here.
- [03:57]
D
Yeah. Let's start with the big Apple news. What did they announce and what stood out most to you?
- [04:02]
E
Apple had a really big week last week releasing a range of products. Between Monday and Wednesday, they released a brand new affordable iPhone, the Successor to the 16E, the 17E, which looks to be pretty compelling for about 599 bucks. I may even recommend it to my mom. And then also there's a new iPad Air, a MacBook, Air, a MacBook Pro, all with updated Apple silicon. Apple puts their own chips in their computers now and then some pretty darn expensive computer monitors, their new line of studio monitors. But the headline product, the big news everyone's talking about has to be the MacBook Neo, which is a really cool little laptop with a good price. It looks to be a strong value proposition, at least on paper. Haven't seen it in person yet, but it could really be a game changer for the market segment.
- [04:46]
D
Yeah, I'm not really a gadget guy, but that's the thing that caught my attention. What makes the Neo such an interesting product?
- [04:52]
E
Well, there's a really pretty yellow color that I've just got in my mind whenever I think about it. No, but I think the real selling point is price. It starts at 599, which is. Which is kind of unheard of for an Apple Mac product. You could even get it for 499 with a college student or an educator discount. But Apple is billing this as the most affordable MacBook ever, which it is for an Apple product. It looks to be really well built. It continues their line of, you know, all metal builds. As I mentioned, it's pretty. It comes in a lot of colors. One of my colleagues said it was giving her Elle woods vibes from back in Legally Blonde. She had an iBook G3 that was colorful. It's a game changer. It could be a good option for parents of students, somebody like myself who's looking for an affordable device and more flexibility than just an iPad. It's got a keyboard built into it, but I think this is going to be pretty popular in the education market especially.
- [05:46]
D
Yeah. Just for a reference, I mean, where does the next level of MacBook Start?
- [05:50]
E
You got to pony up 1,099 bucks to get a MacBook Air, which is a faster, nicer machine, at least on paper.
- [05:59]
D
It's kind of competing in a new area. Right. How does it compare to other budget laptops and Chromebooks?
- [06:04]
E
Apple really hasn't had a fit here or an entrant in this category for a while, and I think it definitely fits the category. What's interesting to me is kind of a tech nerd is it runs on an iPhone pro chip, which kind of speaks to how powerful these cell phone chips have become. And I think it should offer enough power for casual users who want to surf the web, maybe even edit some photos, more extensive tasks. You got to go up a price for that. But on the PC and Chromebook side, there's. There's just a lot more budget options still. Because a lot of brands make these types of computers. Many of them are even cheaper. There's like, my son has this really brick like Chromebook that he carries back and forth to school that I'm sure is not very expensive, but that's for now because the cost of memory, the components that go into these computers is increasing. So how long will these ultra affordable devices remain widely available? That's the question. And meanwhile, Apple's putting out a cheaper computer.
- [06:58]
D
My son's a gamer and he's brought up the escalation in the chip market in terms of prices. What exactly is happening in the chip market?
- [07:06]
E
Yeah, as a gamer, he's probably all over this. If you'll recall years back now, which is, it's been several years, it was the pandemic, the supply chain crisis that we saw with pandemic that created a semiconductor shortage. I remember there was a lot of cars, new cars on the lots, unsold because they didn't have the chips in them to run their computers. But the latest crisis, the memory chip crisis, is AI's fault. Industry research is pointing to a significant shortage of chips and surging costs. And this is all driven by the ramp up in AI and building out these data centers. These AI data centers require a ton of computing power. So the chip makers, and these are the companies that make graphics processors, RAM or memory, the storage, the SSDs that are in computers are shifting their focus to these high end data center components. And the production is being diverted away from the chips that we want to buy or that go into the consumer tech gadgets that we want to buy. So this current shortage is reportedly more severe than what we saw in the pandemic. This is according to idc, a technology research firm. So there's a lot to be seen here. But it sounds like, you know, it could be a big deal for consumers.
- [08:13]
D
What do industry watchers think this will mean for prices and availability?
- [08:17]
E
I think the immediate issue here is rising prices on consumer tech. And we're already seeing that. And with some products and according to gartner research firm PC prices are projected to rise 17% in 2026 and smartphone prices are projected to go up 13% this year. And analysts also predict that there be fewer shipments. And what's interesting is a reduction in the budget model offerings with some suggesting that the below 500 category of PCs could just disappear by 2028. So that could be a blow to folks, you know, hoping to save money. And it's because manufacturers may decide that the, the margins just aren't there. These cheap laptops just aren't worth it to produce as long as this is going on. And it could just leave the budget. Consumers ghosted, to use a word that I'm probably too old to use.
- [09:03]
D
So it's interesting, right, that Apple is entering a segment that, that is starting to disappear. Does Apple have an advantage here?
- [09:11]
E
This is a strategic play on Apple's part and I think they can weather things like this because they control their own hardware, they make their chips and Put them in their computers. I mentioned, you know, Apple has their M line of chips in their higher end computers and then this one is running an iPhone chip. And that integration, that tight knit can just help them weather shortages better than competitors. And I think the MacBook Neo is an example of Apple navigating this environment but also just being strategic at the timing of their release. But I will caveat, the higher end MacBook Pros that were released along with this announcement did get a price bump this year. So they're not completely immune to it.
- [09:46]
D
Turning back to the chip shortage, what does it all mean for everyday consumers?
- [09:50]
E
I don't want to create a panic here. I don't want to sound the alarm. You know we are talking about tech devices, right? Not food. But still technology permeates many aspects of our lives. And I think, you know, budget minded consumers and that's what I am, I like to get stuff for an affordable price and we may feel the drought. I think students, casual users like myself, even small businesses that buy a lot of computers or cell phones in bulk, they may really feel this. And one thing that's interesting to me because I follow this stuff like there's a lot of mid range Android devices and cheaper Android devices for cell phones and those could disappear. And I think that's pretty sad for the market because I think it's nice to have these budget opt for people and then, you know, the high end gamers. Rick, you mentioned your son is into games and high end PCs and they probably are expecting this. I think, you know, those are the types of people that are probably following this. And if you're building out your dream rig, you probably just need to tally up the costs before you do so. Maybe even switch to a console for the time being because you can expect to pay a premium on RAM, which is memory, the GPUs, the processors and storage devices. But I think more than anything it's a shift of how and when we choose to spend our money.
- [11:02]
D
Got it. So, so what's your advice for consumers?
- [11:04]
E
I'm talking to myself here, but we can hold on to our technology products a little longer. I've been trying to avoid a new iPhone purchase for months now and it's, it's like really hard because the marketing is on our face. There's an Apple store on my phone, but let's be real. Phones and computers last a really long time these days. Mine is going on four years. The battery is strong. The improvements we see on new models are incremental from year to year and all I really want is an aur orange one. So, you know, it's not going to be a power bump. But I think the longer that we keep our devices, the less we'll have to worry about the price of memory. Because like I said, I'm a tech nerd. I followed this stuff. But do you, the listener, do you really want to worry about the price of ram? I'm hoping not, but I think. And just on a personal note for me, so you know, I'm holding strong, I don't need any tech right now. But that MacBook Neo, I don't know, the yellow one especially, it's kind of calling my name. And I think it could be our next shared family laptop because each of my kids are not getting one of these things. So it's interesting.
- [12:04]
D
Awesome. Well, thank you, Tommy. That was great. Appreciate your time. I'll turn it back to you. Elizabeth and I gotta ask, are you at all tempted by the Neo?
- [12:13]
B
Well, I have a long story, but if you stay with me, I'm gonna answer your question at the end. So about two or three years ago, I needed a new MacBook and I bought one. And then guess who dropped it at the airport on the floor A couple of months later I did. And guess what happened when I tried to open it? The screen was gone. And also guess who had no insurance. Of course, me. I took it to the Apple store to get fixed. The price was pretty expensive, so I said, well, let me take it to a backdoor place and see if I can get it for cheaper. I did indeed get it for maybe two or $300 cheaper. And then six months later this screen is out again, took it to Apple. The cost of fixing the laptop was more than I purchased it for, so it just didn't make financial sense. So to answer your question, Rick, I am eyeing the Neos and actually I love the yellow and the pink. Those are my two top colors. I also love, love, love the price point. All right, thank you both. Up next, we answer listeners question about how you can ensure that your investments reflect your personal values. But of course, before we get into that, this is a reminder to you all, we want your money questions. Whether you are trying to figure out how to include new tech like me into your budget or you want to invest in some kind of tech company but are not sure how to navigate it, we're here to answer your questions. You can leave us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 again, that's 901730, nerd. If you don't want to call or text us, you can email us@podcasterdwallet.com we're back in a moment. Stay with us. Today's episode is sponsored by Spectrum Business.
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We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from a listener's text message. Hey Elizabeth and Sean, any advice for an investing for Retirement newbie hoping to have her Roth 403 investments reflect some of her political leanings? In short, I elected to invest in a Target fund through my employer, and from what I understand, these funds usually are invested in some of the most common stocks, like Tesla. The idea of giving Elon Musk an ounce of my money makes me physically ill. But being charged with determining all the stocks to invest in for my retirement fund feels above my scope. Any advice? Hope this makes sense. And thanks for all that y' all do.
- [16:20]
B
What a conundrum. Now, to help us answer this conundrum, we are joined by investing writer Bella Avila. Welcome back to Smart Money, Bella.
- [16:29]
C
Thanks for having me.
- [16:30]
B
Okay, so now let's set the stage for the conversation, which I think is a pretty intriguing one. Now, our listeners invested in a target date fund in their company's retirement account. Can you, Bella, describe how these funds funds are structured and how many companies might be in a single fund?
- [16:46]
C
Yeah, so you can think of a target date fund kind of as like a mega mutual fund that adjusts its investments the closer you get to retirement. So when you're younger, a bigger portion might be riskier investments like stocks, since you have some time to weather out any downturns in the market. And then as you get older, it'll shift towards safer investments like bonds. And I say it's a mega mutual fund because a target date fund is a mutual fund made up of other mutual funds. So as far as how many companies it might invest in, the answer is usually thousands.
- [17:20]
A
Knowing which companies are in your retirement account fund can be a little daunting because, Bella, as you said, there could be thousands of them. And for average investors, this can be pretty challenging task to even start. So do you have any tips for how people could maybe easily understand which companies make up the fund they're invested in?
- [17:39]
C
Well, this probably isn't the answer anyone wants to hear, but easy just isn't really a word I would associate with digging into which companies make up your target date fund. As much as I would love to be able to really quickly get a list of every company I'm invested in and then see how much of my fund is made up of each, they really just don't make it that easy on us. Every plan won't be the same. But I'll kind of run you through how I found this information myself. First, I logged into my Fidelity account to verify which fund I was invested in, which is the Vanguard 2065 Target Date Fund. And then I just popped the fund name into Google and clicked on the related Vanguard page about my fund. And like I said, target date funds are basically mega mutual funds. So that page just told me which four funds made up my target day fund. And then I had to open the Vanguard pages associated with each of those funds and then just keep scrolling until I found the list of companies. Each one Invested in?
- [18:31]
A
Yeah, it's kind of like Russian nesting dolls of different funds. Like, you have your targeted fund, and then there's a fund within the fund, and then all the companies within that fund. So it can be really confusing. And I'll get into this more later, but when I was researching my own funds ahead of this conversation, it took me a while to do. And I do this for a living. So we understand why this might not be an easy thing for them to take on. Yeah, so our listener did call out Tesla in her question to us, but there are a number of companies and social issues that people might not want to support through their retirement funds. For me personally, I've been really concerned about my retirement funds being used to fund private prisons, particularly those that are used to detain immigrants. There have been a lot of human rights abuse abuses documented at these facilities, including those documented by the aclu. So while we've recently seen some changes to how ICE raids are being conducted, where and how people are being held hasn't changed. And a lot of people might not want to be indirectly funding or growing their retirement nest egg on these conditions. So, that said, knowing whether your fund does invest in private prison companies can be really hard. As we just kind of outlined, we might see this really long list of companies in our target date fund and have no idea what the companies do. So, Bella, what are your thoughts around how we can determine whether the companies that make up our funds align with our values?
- [19:50]
C
Well, this is kind of hard to answer because, like I mentioned, a target date fund can hold tens of thousands of investments. So researching each company individually would just take a ton of time. Although what I'm about to say is a little bit ironic since AI companies are among those I'd personally like to avoid investing in. I think a good use case for AI would be giving it an idea of the types of companies you'd like to avoid investing in and then asking which companies in your fund don't align with your values. I actually tested this approach and was pretty happy with the results that I got.
- [20:23]
B
I'm with you, Bella. I have been trying to be more mindful about how I use AI, thinking about all the environmental impacts and, you know, the negative effects of AI. But I think this might be an exception to the rule because you're trying to do a good and doing a bad. So can you tell us more about how you use AI to help you in this case?
- [20:39]
C
Yeah, absolutely. I used Google Gemini, but I'm sure most AIs will give pretty similar results. I told it which Vanguard Target Date fund I was invested in, which funds it houses, and asked it which companies I'm invested in aren't climate friendly since that doesn't align with my values. Of course you can tweak this however you want to make it work for you. But it flagged which funds had the highest fossil fuel exposure, which companies within those funds were the worst offenders, and then it gave me some useful insights about what my options are if I want to avoid investing in these companies. And you'll definitely want to fact check it because AI can hallucinate sometimes. But I personally found this process to be really helpful and efficient and I think it beat doing all the research on my own.
- [21:21]
B
It sounds like there's no perfection here, right? But you can get closer to maybe having a fund that aligns with your values since like you guys said, there's thousands and thousands of companies to look through. But if someone discovers that they are invested in a company that they disagree with, what are their options? In this case, it's not like they can just opt out of one or two companies in their Target Date fund, right?
- [21:41]
C
Yeah, that's right. The big caveat to doing all of this research is that unfortunately it might not really amount to much. It can definitely be good to know which companies you're invested in and then you can keep that information in your back pocket to know what to avoid when you're investing somewhere else. But you don't usually have the choice to opt out of these companies when you're in a Target Date Fund. If you feel really strongly about not investing in these companies, you might have the option to pick your own investments through a self directed brokerage account within your 401k. For instance, fidelity has something called Brokerage Link. If your employer offers it, it would allow you to take advantage of tax benefits. And then any employer match that you get on contributions, a 401k. But then you'll have more freedom over what you're invested in. I do really want to stress though how difficult it can be to achieve a well diversified portfolio if you're hand picking your stocks yourself. It's really not for most people. I'm no financial advisor, but what I would lean toward myself is investing in a Target Date fund and then maybe looking somewhere else to invest based on your values.
- [22:45]
A
Yeah, this is why IRAs can be really helpful for people who want to be more intentional with where they're putting their money for retirement. Right? Right.
- [22:52]
C
Yeah. An IRA gives you more flexibility when it comes to choosing investments and it's tax advantaged too. You might also look into a strategy called direct indexing, which just means buying individual stocks that a fund is made up of instead of actually investing in the fund itself. And this would give you some freedom to leave out ones that you don't align with. And this can take a lot of research and time, but it's definitely possible to create a diversified portfolio that mimics maybe like the S&P 500, but leaves out certain companies. And you can also apply this direct indexing strategy to a regular taxable brokerage account if you want. You'll just want to choose your broker pretty carefully because some of them require high account minimums to do this. And then the last option I'll throw out there for investing based on your values is a robo advisor. I know betterment is one that has climate impact and social impact funds that would offer you some diversification that you might not get if you were hand picking stocks on your own. That's just one example. But a lot of robo advisors have pretty similar portfolio options.
- [23:54]
A
Yeah, and if people are going to go the route of maybe choosing all of their own investments within a retirement account, I would recommend consulting with a financial advisor, a certified financial planner, ideally, because they can help you understand all these companies and what might be a good balance for your goals and your time horizon.
- [24:10]
C
Yeah, I definitely echo that.
- [24:12]
A
Okay, so as I was preparing for this recording, I really went down a rabbit hole that was inspired by this listener because, you know, I also don't want to feel physically ill about the investments in my retirement account. And I looked into what I've been investing in. I'm investing in Vanguard's 2055 Target Date Fund. And I found that a large percentage of the funds I was invested in had companies within them. Again, that Russian nesting doll thing that are associated with the private prison industry. And this was according to a tool that I use called Prison Free Funds, which you can Access@free funds.org the tool at that website is really helpful. I found that did a lot of the heavy lifting for me in terms of determining whether companies in my retirement account do align with my values. So looking within the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund, which makes up a little over half of the fund within my Target date fund, the amount going to private prisons is less than 0.01%. So that helped me feel a little bit better about the amount I was investing in private prisons. And so also does understanding the nature of this fund too, which you might gather from the name Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund is designed to give me exposure to the entire US equity market, which of course includes private prison companies.
- [25:25]
C
Right. Investing in like a broad index fund like that can seem really great because you're getting a lot of good diversification with it. But the one downside to investing in a lot of companies is that it also increases the likelihood that you won't like all those companies.
- [25:39]
A
Exactly. That said, I'm not really wild about any amount of my money going into private prisons, even if it's less than 1% of my investments. Like you said, Bella, we use Fidelity for our retirement accounts at NerdWallet. So I logged in and I checked out how I can change my investments and there are options to change my current investments and also change my future investments. So if people want to truly and entirely divest from companies they don't agree with, and thus they these target date funds, you need to change both really. So I looked into my investment options that I have available and I found that there wasn't one that aligned with my values at all, unfortunately.
- [26:15]
C
Yeah, I can really relate to your disappointment there. What I'm currently invested in and then a lot of the other options we have just don't really reflect my beliefs. I think it's really hard to find a pre made fund anywhere that perfectly aligns with your values. But then when your options are limited even further through a workplace retirement fund, it kind of just feels like an impossible challenge. Challenge.
- [26:37]
B
Well, where do you guys find the balance then? Because we want to invest for the future, we want to have enough for retirement, we want to create financial stability, but we also want to be true to our values. But it seems like there isn't an all or nothing option.
- [26:49]
A
Right. I looked into the brokerage link option that Bella mentioned earlier, where I can choose all of the investments within my retirement account or for my retirement investments. And even though I am a certified financial planner, I didn't feel equipped to do that on my own right now. I would love to get to that place as a goal. But Frank, frankly I have a lot of other things pulling on my time and attention and I know it's going to take hours and hours to do that just the right way. And I would love to consult with another CFP too, just to check my work. And that underscores as well how using something like brokerage link isn't a realistic option for the average investor, especially if they want to get to a secure place with their retirement investments and have a diversified portfolio. So I'm in this Sort of in between place that you just mentioned, Elizabeth, where I'm trying to, like, square the circle of my conscience so I can live my values even if my retirement investments don't fully reflect my values. So there isn't a perfect answer. I feel like there's this line thrown around that there's no ethical consumption in capitalism. And the same goes for investing. I suppose the answer to me that helps me sleep at night is just investing, contributing, donating more to those who are directly affected by the companies that I don't really align with and that I view as causing harm in our society. So to me, that's just monthly contributions to legal defense funds and organizations that are helping those who are being jailed in violation of their due process rights.
- [28:16]
B
I'm in a similar boat, Sean, I think, just with everything. As a girl who studied social sciences and who was constantly outraged at the world throughout her twenties, I think my point of peace was realizing I cannot solve all of the world's issues. So there's just not gonna be any perfection. So it's like balancing out the damage that you're causing. So do a little recycling here, you know, consume less there, update your target date fund, you know, to the extent of your capacity. So I think it's just spreading it throughout. Right.
- [28:43]
A
And this is where individual actions run up against systemic challenges. Because we can't change how the stock market is structured overnight. We're not individually going to be able to transform how our target date funds are structured. But we can do what helps us at least sleep at night a little better. Bella, I'd love to hear how you approach this, too.
- [29:01]
C
Very similar to both of you. I've tried to make peace with the fact that retirement investing just isn't perfect. Our investments might not always match our values, and then, you know, we have little control over that sometimes. But I try to focus on what I do have control over. I've talked a little bit about the different accounts that people can set up to invest based on their values. But I also want to recognize that not everyone has the extra income to stay invested in the retirement fund and then also invest, invest somewhere else. I think there are meaningful ways you can support companies you align with just in your daily life. This is definitely going to look different for everyone. But just for example, for me personally, it's doing things like buying vegetarian foods to not support the meat industry and avoiding fast fashion. And then probably the most important of all to me right now is shopping local as much as I can. You know, as someone who lives In Minneapolis, there are a lot of small businesses doing really good things right now, like donating a portion of their profits to causes I care about. So something as small as just like getting your morning coffee down the street instead of going to a big corporation can be pretty impactful. I think there are a lot of ways to use your money for good outside of just investing.
- [30:11]
E
Yeah, that's right.
- [30:12]
B
I guess since we're all being soppy here about giving back to the planet. Sean, if you remember, I mentioned that during my birthday I made the gift bags for the homeless people. And because homelessness is another world issue that grates my nerves and it shouldn't exist, I was like, well, I don't have to wait until my birthday to create these gifts back. So now I have them in my trunk and anytime I see homeless people, I just give them sanitary goods and things to help them. So there are always little ways to give back, right?
- [30:36]
C
You can't change the world over.
- [30:37]
B
I love the art.
- [30:38]
A
Just do a little bit at a time, right?
- [30:40]
B
That's right.
- [30:41]
A
And one last thing I'll throw out too is if you are really unhappy with a structure of your retirement investments at your company, you can talk with your coworkers, talk with your management and see if they might be able to change your options available. In some cases, they might be able to put together an environmental, social and governments fund that would more align with your ethics and. But you won't know unless you ask and hopefully advocate for that change to happen. Well, Bella, thank you so much for coming on and talking through this kind of thorny issue with us. I know that we're not going to come to the perfect solution overnight. I think it's a gradual process and a conversation we all need to have with ourselves and with each other. And I think this is hopefully a good step for our listener too.
- [31:17]
C
Yeah, I really appreciate you guys having me on for this conversation.
- [31:21]
A
Well, that's all we have for this episode. Bella, I'm gonna throw the sign off to you. Can you read us a out to
- [31:27]
C
have the nerds answer your money questions? Call or text us your questions on the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901730, nerd. You can also email us@podcasterdwallet.com we want
- [31:43]
B
you to come and hang out with us next time to hear about how to choose the right credit card for your lifestyle. Follow Smart money on your favorite podcast app. That includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Iheartradio. To automatically download new episodes.
- [31:57]
A
Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.
- [32:07]
B
This episode was produced by Tess Figland. Hilary Georgi helped with editing. Nick Karisimi and Eve Krogman helm our audio and video production. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all of their help.
- [32:19]
A
And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.