C (2:42)

Thank you so much, Elizabeth. It's a pleasure to be here.

A (2:46)

All right, so a little bit about Grace. She's the founder and managing director at Grace Global Capital llc, which is a consulting firm that provides M and A financial advisory, restructuring and valuation to insurance executives and also to boards and also to financial regulators since 2006. Now, a fun fact that I want to share with you all about Grace is that she's also a licensed sailor. How did that happen, Grace? Two very different worlds.

C (3:12)

It is two different worlds, but some of the lessons are connected. I became a sailor through the insurance industry. I had the pleasure of developing some very deep and meaningful relationships with my clients. And one of them was a sailor out of Hamburg, Germany. And he and his wife invited me to sail with them off the coast of Sweden, sailing from Stockholm to Haparanda, which is the furthest northest part of Sweden. And I was sailing in his all wooden sailboat which was a prototype of the American Cup. It was quite spectacular, majestic, picture of history. And as we were sailing, I was just fascinated with how carefully you had to observe your environment and adjust the sails. I was fascinated by the team effort it took to get the sales going. And I decided, look, I'm going to get my sailor's license when I get back to New York City. And I got my basic sailor's license and my coastal navigation license.

A (4:26)

You know, I am so afraid. My deepest fear is drowning in the ocean. So I don't know that I would be brave enough to do that. But I love it. Sounds like a great experience. Experience.

C (4:36)

It is a great experience.

A (4:37)

We like to start with icebreakers. From time to time you can just tell me the first answer that comes to mind. So if your 18 year old self inherited a hundred thousand dollars, what would you have done with it at that time and why?

C (4:50)

I would have invested in the stock market because the stock market has more than quadrupled since then and my 30 year old self invested in certain stocks in the market and I'm looking at returns that are thousand percent, five thousand percent. So I would use the time value of money to work in my favor because as Einstein said, it's the eighth wonder of the world. And everyone who is young listening to the sound of my voice, use the compounding time value of money in your favor.

A (5:29)

It really is powerful. And I think the first time I used the compound interest calculator I was like, wait, what? It's like magic, just your money grows and you don't have to do anything at all. So this leads me to a question. Based on your answer. I want to know a bit more about your story of origin. Where did you grow up? And also how did your primary caretakers navigate money? Because you said your 18 year old self would have invested in the market. So does that mean you had financial knowledge at an early, early age?

C (5:56)

I didn't have financial knowledge as an early age, but money was wired into me as an early. At an early age. We all have our first money story. And there's a African proverbs that I love. It says, wherever the stream flows, it never forgets its source. And my source, my source of inspiration, my source of moral support is my late grandmother. One of the most treasured words she said to me was, believe beyond your limits. So we grew up in a small country in South America, Guyana, and very, very limited resources, but a bountiful in love. However, my first money memory filled with lack and not enough. And some of it was shrouded in shame and denial. And one of the things I had to learn to empower myself was to really shift my mindset regarding money and how I think about money and how I grow my money. But first I had to account for where the origins came from and started making that conscious, deliberate, intentional shift every day in order to make my money work for me.

A (7:19)

And around what age would you say that shift happened? What was the thing that moved the needle for you?

C (7:24)

Well, several things moved the needle for me. But I had one milestone when I was in college in New York City in my undergraduate studies at Pace University in accounting, where between my second and third year, I have a family of nine. Actually, I have a big family. There are seven siblings. We shared a brownstone in Brooklyn. And I came home in a June summer's day to find that our apartment was up in flames.

A (7:54)

Oh, no.

C (7:55)

And everything we considered dear and precious and memorable to us was just reduced to ashes. And we had a number of people who came to console us and render advice and aid, and all of them said the same thing to my parents, which is, you're a family of nine. Why don't you split up into twos and threes, go to different relatives and friends, and when you get yourself together, come back as family. But my late dad, who was orphaned at the age of eight, always reminded us that the saddest day of his life was when he was separated from his two brothers. And he said there's no way we'll separate. And we realized that the only place we could stay together as a family was a New York City homeless shelter. So a day that began as me heading to school, just focusing on my education, ended with me walking into a homeless shelter with all of our possessions sitting in a 13 gallon trash bag with room left to spare. And for me, it was a wake up call. A wake up call in not only the reality of lack and my surroundings, but also the wake up call of not having a financial safety net. But those are the moments where my grandmother's words became so real to me when she said, believe beyond your limits. Because she believed that you should never plan your goals, your visions, your dreams based on your current circumstances. That's right, that our current circumstances will deceive us far as what we can achieve. And so those were the moments where I had a reality and a shift regarding what am I going to believe, what am I going to hold dear to me and myself is that I am going to rise above this. And I wrote an article a few months ago that Black Enterprise published called From Ashes to Assets. And in the article it talks about where do you begin when you're starting from less than zero? And why having a strategy and a plan and a vision that you're working towards is so, so important to you.

A (10:29)

Wow, that's such an inspirational story. And I'm so glad that you were able to build your life from the ground up. So now I want to hear a little bit about that journey. Why did you choose finance? Did that have something to do with you wanting to create financial security or was it just a topic you were really interested in?

C (10:45)

Yes, that's a great question. I majored in accounting. I took the CPA exam. I passed it. I started working for the big auditing firms. I did that for about five years before I realized that I wanted to get deeper into finance and really work on the future directions of companies and get deeply into IPOs and capital market issues like mergers and acquisitions. I went back for my MBA at, at the Wharton Business School, University of Penn. And that began me working on Wall street as life and the universe would have it. Where I worked and started to specialize very quickly was in the insurance industry. And I think it is divine purpose for me to work in the insurance industry. Why? Because I'm not only an advisor in the insur. In building family safety nets, I believe in families staying together healthy and safe. So I go to work with a passion for financial empowerment, a passion for Company building their social meaning of helping people get on their feet to build their wealth, to pass wealth on from one generation to the next. And some are deep advocate for the work that I do, not only in the insurance industry, but in the financial services industry.

A (12:23)

I personally was able to start my journey to building wealth and saving for retirement because I got a job at NerdWallet and I started educating myself about my finances and applying all the things that I'm learning. So for you and your journey as a first generation wealth builder, when did you start building your wealth and what did you start with?

C (12:42)

It started first as being an employee of a company. I graduated from grad school. My student loans, not only did I have student loans, but it was in the six figure category. So I really had to focus on getting out of debt as quickly as I can. And one wealth building strategies, when you're still building a career and working on a single source of income is to really manage carefully how you live what kind of lifestyle you have, make sure it aligns with your values of building wealth and you're not spending your funds in luxury items that just incurs even more debt. So one of the advice I got was live off of your salary and save your bonus. So what I did was I did live off of my salary, but instead of saving my bonus in the initial year, I used my bonus to pay off this big six figure worth of wealth that I had incurred in my education years. So fairly quickly, within a space of four years, I was able to pay the debt off.

A (13:57)

Impressive.

C (13:58)

Yes. And then soon thereafter, I used my wealth to buy my first, actually my second apartment in New York City. So I started with real estate, which was a significant and meaningful investment in terms of growing your wealth. And then secondly, I started to invest in the stock market, not only through my 401k plan, but my own investments were investing in the market.

A (14:32)

Two very powerful tools for building wealth. Now, one of the challenges I noticed that first generation wealth builders face, especially when they're the first in their family to start making a substantial amount of money or to start building wealth, is that they feel like they have to save and help all of their family. And sometimes that can slow down your wealth building efforts. So is this something that you face, and if so, how have you navigated that?

C (14:58)

So, so interesting. I deal with this all the time, not only in my family, but in several families around me, particularly when you're that first. And it almost seems as if family members who are not doing as well feel that you're Entitled to help them in some way, shape and form. And one of the things that everyone building wealth have to learn and have to learn it early and have to be firm on this, is that there is significant power in the word no. One of the things that we all have to learn as we build wealth, particularly when we're trailblazers, pioneers, we are the first to not only build wealth, but to invest to get a certain level of education. There's this great deal of admiration that goes your way, but there is also some resentment, jealousy, envious. And a lot of times when someone asks you for money, they're asking from a place of very unhealthy, toxic feelings around their own financial well being. And giving them money is like putting band aid on a cancer. It never ends. So the sooner you say no, the better off you will be and they will be.

A (16:31)

Is this a muscle that you had to develop or were you always good at saying no? Because I don't know about you, but I have struggled with boundaries for many years. I'm getting better at saying no now, but it's a muscle I had to build.

C (16:42)

Yes, I have struggled with boundaries as well, but fortunately around money, I always knew that, number one, I had my own pressing situation to deal with. Number two, when I earned my degrees, I really didn't ask anyone for assistance. Those were just loans I took out that I was responsible for. So there was a great deal of skin in the game that I had that I knew I needed to repay. It was my responsibility. So I had a sense of ownership over my own financial situation. And I did not see it that same level of ownership and agency in the folks that were asking me. It made it easier for me to say no early on. And also I had an advice that I think I would love to share with people. And when it comes to your money, and I was working on Wall street, one of my friends said to me, do not tell your family how much you're making. Be very careful. Don't tell your family, don't tell your friends how much you're making. And I see this all the time. Wealth is silent, you know, wealth is quiet. Poor is noisy. You see this in neighborhoods. You see this in our environment. You go to a poor neighborhood and it's noisy, super noisy. You go to a wealthy neighborhood, they're very quiet. So it's, you know, it reverberates in our lifestyle and in many things that we do.

A (18:25)

I'd love to hear more about the challenges that you faced on your way to building wealth, especially Maybe things like imposter syndrome or even just knowledge gaps.

C (18:35)

You know, I didn't have much in terms of imposter syndrome. One major difficulty I faced was getting a divorce. The most important decision anyone can make is who you choose for a life partner. And when I emerge from that divorce, and it's one of the most powerful things I did was walk away from a toxic relationship. But I was left bankrupt emotionally and financially and had and had to restart from scratch. And that is where entrepreneurship was a powerful journey for me because I called my clients who knew that I was married at the time, explained I was divorced. And actually when I told them I was divorced, I said, look, this gives me an opportunity to focus on a hundred percent on client service. And I'm here to tell you that I'm here to give you my all.

A (19:33)

So when you had to do it the second time around, did you use the same approach in terms of real estate and the stock market? And also what did you do to safeguard your wealth building efforts the second time around?

C (19:44)

So the second time around, the journey was much different. It was my company that I was building. And the second time around, the skills are different. You are your brand. Every time I woke up and my feet hit the floor, I knew that I was driven by purpose. I knew that there was a mission way beyond me that I was working towards. And it gave me a sense of fulfillment and empowerment that the first journey did not give.

A (20:17)

I guess a big component of generational wealth is the ability to transfer it across generations. So not just so that you can be financially secure, but so that future generations can be as well. So what measurements are you putting in place to ensure that, you know, wealth can transfer over? And then also, what's your goalpost? Because I don't know, how are you calculating whether I want it to pass from one generations or two generations and ensuring that money continues to compound and grow or those assets?

C (20:44)

Sure, Elizabeth, I'd like to answer the last question first. And what is my goal post when I plan my financial legacy? I plan it for three generations, so I plan it for 100 years from now. So how do you put those measures in place? And number one is getting the legal documents in place as soon as possible. I'm amazed at how many people do not have a will, do not have a power of attorney, or they do it in a much haphazard fashion. And I can't emphasize enough how clearly it is to just have the documents, have it current and talk about it. Second, I don't think we Talk about it enough. I don't think there's enough. We don't have families that sit together as particularly families that come from a place of poverty. And gradually they start building wealth. I really think they need to step back and say, what? When we meet for family gatherings, this should be on the table. Let's bring finances on the table. What are our plans, what are our dreams, and how do we memorialize it in a way that it goes forward? And third, I think is education. I think many times our children do not understand money. They don't understand how to build wealth. I think we need much more financial literacy because in this age of AI, financial literacy, ironically has declined all very helpful points.

A (22:26)

But the last one is so important because if the people inheriting the wealth aren't educated on how to manage it, then it's easy for it to be squandered, right?

C (22:35)

Yes.

A (22:36)

All right, so I want to pivot to your future because I think people who are building wealth spend so much time, again, planning, working hard to ensure they can fund their dreams. So what does the end look like for you? Let's Fast forward to 100 years because you said you wanted to pass down multiple generations. What does generational wealth look and feel like?

C (22:57)

Generational wealth for me means that, number one, because one of my main mission is to really build financial literacy, to have more people insured because we live in an underinsured world. My mission is to have 1,1 billion more people insured. Uninsured people live in areas that are subject to climate change. And one of the key pillars of building wealth is insurance. If you're not insured, you cannot build or create wealth or leave a lasting legacy. So having more people with financial safety net. I want my mission to continue way after I pass away in terms of my family lineage. I have three children. I have 11 nieces and nephews. And many of them are interested in financial empowerment. And for those that will be entrusted in my wealth, I want to make sure that they continue the mission of education and mentorship and that they lead lives where they can invest in assets that continue to compound and use the compounding time of money be in their favor.

A (24:21)

Thank you for sharing Grace. We will include links to Grace's book and those resources in the show notes in case you want to go and download and educate yourself. Next up, we'll dig into a listener's question about how to bulk up your emergency savings. But before we get into that, maybe you are on a journey to building generational wealth and you want to know what the best assets are to start with. Or maybe you're trying to get yourself out of debt so that you can start saving more. Whatever your question is, leave us a voicemail or text us on the NERD hotline at 901-730-6373. Again, that's 901-730-NERD. All right, let's get to this episode's Money Questions segment. That's up next. Stay with us.

B (25:09)

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B (27:10)

We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode question comes from a listener's text message. Hi nerdwallet, here's my money question I really need some help with. I work for a non profit and the current political climate has caused funders to significantly reduce grant opportunities. The body of work I lead is now unfortunately at risk of being dissolved as of January 2026. I have been in this field about 15 years and thankfully have cultivated other income sources including consulting and an adjunct professorship. And while I'm able To save about 7% of my paycheck, not including my 5% contribution to my 403, I only recently dug myself out of credit card debt thanks to your show. So my emergency savings currently wouldn't even cover me for one month. I'm beginning to panic about my lack of emergency savings, especially since I just got out of credit card debt, which was hard enough enough. What can I do between now and the end of the year to bulk up my emergency fund and prepare for this potential employment cliff? My annual salary at my full time job is $135,000 after tax I take home $6,400 a month. Lots going on, but hoping you can help me game plan how to navigate the situation.

A (28:18)

That is quite the situation and sorry to hear Listener now to help us answer this question, we are joined by Kim Palmer. Hey Kim.

D (28:26)

Hi. Thank you so much for having me back.

A (28:28)

Happy for you to be here, Kim. Let's get into the listener's question. All right, so if the listener's job is cut in 2026, that means they only have a short time to bulk up their emergency savings. Now in a follow up note, the listener said their monthly expenses are around $7,500 a month. That means they need at least $22,500 to achieve a three month emergency fund fund. And that sounds pretty steep. Now Kim, we know that emergency savings can take a while to build up and they only have, they said, under a month's worth. So what are some quick ways to fast track your emergency savings in a situation like this?

D (29:05)

In general, it's usually easiest to cut back on your variable expenses because that's where you have more control just to make changes quickly. If you think about it, your fixed expenses like your housing, maybe your payments on things like an auto loan are just hard to change or impossible to change, certainly quickly. So that's why we really want to focus on the variable cost. That's things like food, personal care, entertainment. It does sound like the listener has already done a lot of work there and cut back in A lot of those places. But I would say it's worth just taking another look and see if there's anywhere else you have flexibility to scale back in those areas. Food is actually my favorite category to really zero in on. It's definitely where I focus when I need to get my budget in shape really quickly, because it's one of our biggest spending categories, and it's also one that we just have a lot of control over. So, for example, if we order takeout, go to restaurants, that, of course, adds up really quickly. And so that can be a way of cutting back and really generating some savings on a pretty quick basis. And then if we're already doing things like meal planning and grocery shopping, then we can just dig into how we are grocery shopping, because there's sometimes room there to do things like join the loyalty program at your grocery store, plan your meals around sales. Even substituting different ingredients for less expensive versions can be really helpful. I also think in this case, the listener might want to consider giving herself a challenge, like a no shopping month, for example, where you just say to yourself, okay, I'm not going to buy any extras. No clothes, nothing I don't absolutely need. And that can be another way to really quickly save up some cash.

B (30:50)

The financial planner in me wants to sit down with this listener and comb through their budget, because one thing that stood out to me immediately is that they said they take home $6,400 a month, and then they told us that their monthly expenses are $7,500 a month. That's an eleven hundred dollar a month discrepancy. That's a lot of money. So they're technically in the red already if these numbers are accurate. So I would encourage them to. To dig deep into all of their numbers and make sure that these first of all are correct and then see where they can make some big cuts. You're right that food can get very expensive, but other expenses, things like auto insurance, can get pretty pricey, too. That can be an area where folks can shop around just a little bit and maybe save some money. But it's going to take some doing, and it'll be a little bit of homework, But I think it will hopefully pay off, like eleven hundred dollars worth of payoff there.

A (31:38)

And I just want to say, Kim, I want to be like you when I grow up and cut back on food, because that's the last place to get cut when I am budgeting, because I like to eat. All right? So luckily, the listener has side gigs to keep them afloat if Their job is cut, but they are expecting to bring a bulk of side income in before the year ends. So, Kim, is it a good idea to funnel all of that money into their emergency fund?

D (32:00)

I think ideally it makes a lot of sense to use your steady income, that is from your W2 job and use that for your expenses. And then once you have the side gig coming in in that income, putting that into or putting that money directly into savings. And that's because sometimes it fluctuates. You might not know if you can always count on it. And so when you have that side gig income coming in, using that to really buckle up your savings can be such a good use of that money. You also want to think about your taxes in this situation, because if you're receiving income that you are not having taxes withheld from, you don't want to get into a situation where you're suddenly surprised at tax time and have to owe a lot of money. So you want to set money aside for your time tax bill as well.

B (32:44)

Our listener mentioned that they are saving 7% of their income and then putting another 5% into their 403B, which is a retirement account. I think in this listener's case, you know, and again, I'm not their financial plan here. I'm not telling them what to do with their money. It actually might make sense for them to pull back on some of their retirement savings and put more into the emergency fund temporarily, given that they have this potential time and cash crunch ahead of them. But I know that's kind of a controversial take for some people. A lot of folks will say always prioritize retirement savings because you'll get just a great return on it. But I want to hear what you guys think about this trade off.

D (33:17)

Well, I think an emergency fund is just so central to your financial well being that in this situation in particular, when you know that your income is about to go way down, it makes a lot of sense to just focus on bulking up your emergency fund and in this case, putting on pause some of your longer term goals, including your retirement savings. So. So I do think that makes a lot of sense. I also think it's interesting to just step back and look at this, the broader context of saving, because this listener is saving 7% of their income and that is actually pretty impressive because the national personal savings rate is just under 5%. So you're actually doing better than most people.

A (33:56)

I'm somewhere in the middle of both of you, so there hasn't been a time. And I acknowledge I may be privileged, but there hasn't been a time I've completely stopped my retirement savings to fund another goal. But there have been times where I have reduced the amount that I'm saving because I save relatively high amounts. I think that's an option as well. If you don't want to scale back completely, you can just reduce the rate.

B (34:16)

I think that's smart. And we don't know if our listener is getting a match on their retirement savings. A lot of folks might get a 4% match or a 3% match. They could consider reducing the amount they're contributing to their 403 to just get the match and have that be it. Because say they're getting a 3% match. They do the 3%. They're still basically contributing 6% of their income income to their retirement account, which is keeping them investing and growing their savings longer term. Well, the listener also mentioned getting out of debt, which is a huge accomplishment. And they bring up a really critical concern which is that when you get out of debt it's important to be proactive so you don't get back into it. A lot of times that means having more savings. Maybe pulling back on your spending, unexpected expenses or a job loss can really spiral your finances right back into debt. Which is why we recommend having a beefy emergency fund of even a month or even a thousand dollars is a great place to start. Budgeting is another good strategy that I mentioned briefly earlier. So Kim, can you think of any sort of budgeting hacks listener could try to ensure they don't end up back in debt and try to focus on rebuilding that emergency fund?

D (35:15)

So I think it really goes back to what we were talking about before and prioritizing having that emergency fund. So it's there for you. I personally really like the 50, 30, 20 budget framework. I know we talk about this a lot on the podcast, but just in case someone has not heard of us talk about this before, it basically means 50% of your take home pay is going to need 30% to wants and 20% to savings and any debt payments that go beyond the minimums. But the great thing about this is you can adjust those percentages so it really fits your own needs.

B (35:49)

That's really important to underline. Some folks hear the 50, 30, 20 budget and think it's unrealistic because they assume it's rich. This is just a starting point. You can change these categories as you need to. A lot of folks who live in expensive areas are going to have their must haves be closer to 60%. That's probably the case in a place like Santa Cruz, where our listener is coming from. And if our listener is also anticipating a job loss, they might want to lower their wants to maybe 20% so they can have more go toward savings. That could also help them speed up their savings goal.

A (36:19)

Thinking ahead for the listener, if they lose their primary source of income, they may be left with unpredictable income from their side gain. Now, how can people who have irregular income approach building an emergency fund and budgeting?

D (36:31)

Kim, it is hard when you have a regular income because you basically have to do the smoothing out yourself. And that can mean receiving your lump sum or the month when you're getting more of an income, putting that into a high yield savings account, and then essentially paying yourself on a more regular basis. So putting a certain amount each month into your account that you have for your bills and your other expenses, it definitely requires some more effort and organization. But it can be easier than just feeling like you're constantly responding to the amount of money you have coming in. When it's changing so much and going.

B (37:07)

Back to knowing your income and expenses, it can be helpful for our listener to understand what's called their bare bones budget. And this is just the absolute needs they have to cover. No going out, no going to the movies, no concerts. What do you really have to have coming in each month to cover your rent and your utilities and a car loan, those kinds of things. That's the minimum you need to make each month. And you can base your savings goals off of that. So that can just help get your arm around this kind of complex, nebulous thing of income and expenses. Okay, Kim, so before we close out, have you ever had a side hustle to help with your savings goals? Because I know Elizabeth has.

D (37:41)

I definitely have. I had an Etsy shop that I was very proud of. It was called Palmer's Planners, and I basically made money planners that.

B (37:49)

I love the alliteration. Thank you.

D (37:51)

So they're around different life stages. Like a baby planner. I had a house planner. It was so fun. I worked with a graphic designer. This was over 10 years ago, but I still have really fond memories of it.

B (38:01)

Do you still have the Etsy shop?

D (38:03)

I don't have the Etsy shop. My son actually wanted to start like a sticker type business.

B (38:08)

Oh.

D (38:08)

And I helped him. Yeah. So it's sort of transformed into something I'm helping my son with. So, no, I don't have the original Etsy shop up and running anymore, but while it ran, it ran for about, about Three to five years. It was so much fun.

B (38:19)

But you have that entrepreneurial spirit in your family because your son is picking it up too. That's so cool.

D (38:24)

I was so excited when he wanted to give it a try.

A (38:26)

Please let me know so I can buy my son some stickers if it is up and running.

D (38:30)

Thank you. I will. I'll let you know.

B (38:33)

With the money that you made from Palmer's Planners, did you fund any savings goals or what did you do with that cash?

D (38:39)

Yes. Well, actually, the son that is now wanting to create his own stickers, it was around the time that he was born is when I had the Etsy shop and I suddenly had so many extra expenses related to him, and so it actually helped me just handle all of those extra costs.

B (38:56)

That's so sweet. That feels like a nice full circle moment because now he's maybe going in the Etsy direction too.

D (39:02)

Yes. You know, I did not even realize that until I just said it out loud, but yes, that is pretty cool.

A (39:06)

All right, Kim, last question for you is what are some other accessible side hustles for people who want to quickly build their emergency fund if they don't want to write or build a sticker shop or planners?

D (39:18)

Well, the good news is we're in an era of side hustles right now where there are so many opportunities for people and it's really about thinking what your own interests and skills are and then using that to build your side hustle. So, for example, say you are really good at social media. You could help someone help other people build their own social media account accounts. If you have a background in editing or writing, you could help someone edit their resume and land their next job. So it's really about thinking about how you can leverage your skills and where they might be marketable. And at NerdWallet, we actually have a great list of different ways to help you make money that can give you some really helpful ideas. There's different categories if you want to be in person or make money online and you can search through there and get some really good ideas.

B (40:03)

And we'll have a link to that article in our show notes. Kim, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us today.

D (40:09)

Thank you both for having me.

B (40:11)

That's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, we are here to answer your money questions. So hit us up on the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-Nerd. You can also shoot us an email@podcasterdwallet.com.

A (40:23)

And since we were on the topic of budgeting, if you would like to be considered for our Budget Rehab segment where we go through your budget with a fine tooth comb, then fill out the application form in today's Show Notes. Join us next time to hear us answer a listener's question about common law, marriage, and filing taxes. You can follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

B (40:49)

Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

A (40:58)

This episode is produced by Tess Video Igland. Hillary Georgie helps with editing. Nick Karisami mixed our audio. Big, Big and Very Big. Thank you to nerdwallis editors for all their help.

B (41:08)

And with that said, until next time, turn to the Nerd.