How to Balance Career Opportunity and Cost of Living (Plus: ChatGPT Ads Could Change How You Spend)

Summary

NerdWallet’s Smart Money Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: How to Balance Career Opportunity and Cost of Living (Plus: ChatGPT Ads Could Change How You Spend)
Date: January 22, 2026
Hosts: Sean Pyles, CFP® and Elizabeth Ayoola
Guests/Contributors: Ana Helhosky (NerdWallet), Tess Vigeland (Producer/Career Expert)

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Overview

In this episode, Sean Pyles and Elizabeth Ayoola tackle two timely personal finance themes:

1. The future of AI-assisted shopping – breaking down recent developments and consumer implications as AI platforms like Google and ChatGPT blend advice, advertising, and checkout into seamless interfaces.
2. Balancing career opportunity versus cost of living – addressing a listener’s dilemma about where to complete medical residency, exploring how early career location choices interact with long-term finances, lifestyle, and professional growth.

Packed with practical insights, candid anecdotes, and illustrative examples, the episode offers actionable takeaways for anyone navigating modern work-life-money tradeoffs or considering how tech will change the way they shop.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Money News: AI Shopping and How It Could Change What You Buy (01:38–13:14)

The Rise of AI Shopping

• AI tools are increasingly being integrated into shopping, offering personalized product suggestions, interpreting reviews, finding deals, and soon, directly facilitating purchases within chats.
  • Ana Helhosky: “Almost half of consumers turn to AI for shopping and advice, including product research, interpreting reviews and finding deals.” (01:38)
• Google’s “Direct Offers” pilot and new Universal Commerce Protocol allow users to shop and check out without leaving the AI chat—big brands like Walmart, Target, and Shopify are on board. (02:12)

OpenAI & ChatGPT Enter Advertising

• OpenAI is testing ads in free ChatGPT, promising separation from recommendations and privacy for chat content.
  • Sean Pyles (skeptical): “Hmm. Yeah. For some reason I'm skeptical of all of those claims.” (03:47)

Instant Checkout & Impulse Spending Risks

• OpenAI’s partnership with Shopify and Etsy to enable “instant checkout” in chat raises concerns about impulse spending.
  • Elizabeth Ayoola: “Yes. Especially for impulse shoppers and people who don't think before they spend. This is. Wow.” (04:15)
  • Sean Pyles: “It's exactly what it's designed to do is to get them to spend without thinking.” (04:20)

Benefits and Cautions of AI Shopping

• AI shopping is fast, personalized, and can help surface niche or hard-to-find products.
• Users should remain cautious—AI’s convenience can erode comparison shopping, lead to overspending, and subtly prioritize paid placements.
  • Ana Helhosky: "AI shopping is going to be collapsing that line that exists right now between advice and advertising and then actually making a purchase." (05:10)

Practical Tips for Navigating AI Shopping (07:51–10:33)

• Treat AI like a salesperson/influencer, not a neutral party.
• Tailor your prompts for specificity.
• Double-check deals and read reviews outside of chat tools.
• Use AI for research, not (yet) for checkout—give yourself time to reflect before making purchases, and price-check big items across multiple retailers.
  • Ana Helhosky: “If you want to be more careful, basically use AI mainly for research and product comparison, especially if you're someone, like you mentioned, Elizabeth, prone to impulse buying.” (09:30)
• Keep old-school shopping skills: check return/warranty policies, save receipts, and know the risks.

The Future: AI as Your Personal Shopper? (10:33–13:14)

• Around 30% of US consumers would be willing to let an AI agent complete purchases on their behalf.
• Skepticism and incremental adoption are healthy.
  • Elizabeth Ayoola: “Are we haters? Are we like the people when the Internet came and they hated the Internet... Are we being AI haters right now?” (11:45)
  • Ana Helhosky: “I use AI to, like, an embarrassing degree. Not with my writing... but I use it instead of Google a lot of the time.” (11:56)
• Rollout is gradual—seamless AI shopping is coming, but not fully mainstream yet.

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2. Listener Question: Weighing Career Location vs. Cost of Living for Medical Residency (16:16–37:52)

Listener’s Scenario (16:16–18:10)

• A medical student must rank residency hospitals; an algorithm will assign their placement.
• Options:
  1. NYC: Top hospitals, very high cost, little ability to save earlier.
  2. Other Metro Cities (Boston, Philly, Baltimore, Pittsburgh): Prestigious but cheaper than NYC.
  3. Long Island/Connecticut/Rhode Island: Least expensive, “good but not great” hospitals, best saving potential but less prestigious resume.
• Dilemma: Is it better to pay a high cost now for long-term opportunity, or save money early and accept potentially less career reach?

Hosts’ Personal Experiences and Advice

• Sean Pyles:

  • Faced similar choices early in his career.
  • Chose the Bay Area for opportunity (with the bonus of having family nearby).
  • Emphasized that city choice is not forever—you can relocate post-training.
  • “I think being in San Francisco was really key in my early 20s to get my career started. And then eventually, once I found my stride, I figured, hey, let me move somewhere where I can actually build the rest of the life that I want to have.” (20:06)

• Elizabeth Ayoola:

  • Moved from London to Nigeria for perceived economic and opportunity advantages.
  • Didn’t get what she expected due to nepotism and currency challenges, but city life provided transferable skills.
  • “Living in a big city equipped me with the transferable skills that I needed to get to where I am today.” (19:00)

The Myth of the “Permanent” Decision

• Most early-career moves can be adjusted later.
  • Sean: “This is not a forever decision for them. Yes, they'll be there for six years, but they could move to any other place afterward.” (20:47)
  • Tess Vigeland (Producer): “These decisions that you make at the earlier stages of your life, they are not the entire determinants of how your life is going to go.” (34:59)

Opportunity vs. Saving: False Dichotomy?

• With creativity, even high-cost living can allow for some savings (roommates, skipping luxuries, using public resources).

• Skill-building and networking can happen anywhere, but major hubs may offer more “ladders.”

  • Elizabeth: “Wherever you are, I think it's important to just make the most of what opportunities you have there to build your skills.” (23:33)

• Sometimes luck and happenstance matter more than precise planning.

  • Elizabeth: “Sometimes opportunities are just a matter of luck... you don't know where these opportunities are going to come from.” (22:24)

Saving Strategies in High-Cost Cities

• Consider roommates, reduce discretionary spending, and utilize local perks like free or discounted community resources.

  • Sean: “Try to get as creative as you can to save money while enjoying your life. I recommend everyone join their local library and see what perks it might afford them.” (25:59)

• Sacrifices are normal early in a career, but can pay off with bigger long-term gains.

  • Elizabeth: “Sometimes you have to make those short-term sacrifices. It wasn't fun living with other people... But having financial security at the time was more important to me.” (24:35)

Personal Fit vs. Prestige: Know Yourself

• Visit cities and honestly assess what fits your lifestyle/values.
  • Sean: “Every time I visit [NYC], I think, this is so fun. I would never want to live here. I love living in a smaller city where I can know my neighbors...” (28:12)
  • Elizabeth: “So is nature important to you? Would you like to be somewhere that is central to the arts?... Maybe you want to live in close proximity to family.” (28:55)

Compound Interest: The Value of Saving Early (29:26–31:47)

• Saving in your 20s yields massive advantages:

  • Saving $500/month from age 26 to 67 at 6% = ~$1.3 million.
  • Waiting until 32 to start = ~$850,000.
    (Difference: ~$450,000 in lifetime savings. Calculations via NerdWallet Retirement Calculator.)

• However, the listener’s projected post-residency earnings ($500k–$750k/yr) mean they may catch up quickly if they “backload” savings.

  • Sean: “Yes, we want people to be saving as much as they can... but they might have the opportunity to backload all of their savings and catch up for those six years...” (31:12)

Lifestyle Creep

• Hosts joke about how they’d spend a dramatic pay increase (house, travel), warning about “lifestyle creep.”

Hosts’ Final Picks and Reflections

• Elizabeth: Would choose NYC for the experience and challenges herself to save creatively, but admits it’s partly a romantic attachment.

  • “If I could live in New York in my early 20s and live out my Sex and the City dreams, I'd absolutely take the opportunity.” (33:11)

• Sean: Prefers secondary metro cities (SF, Boston, Philly) for balance.

• Tess Vigeland: Reminds listeners that no single decision will determine their life trajectory; adaptability and attitude matter more.

  • Tess Vigeland: “What is the phrase? We plan? God laughs... If you don't make the correct decision now... it will in all likelihood turn out completely fine.” (35:39)

Memorable Closing

• Both hosts reflect on their roundabout career journeys and the value of every “step” (“Every little step along the way, as crazy as it was... it got you to where you are now. So that's beautiful.” – Sean, 38:16)
• Virtual group hug for anyone worried about getting it “right.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ana Helhosky (on AI Shopping): “AI shopping is going to be collapsing that line that exists right now between advice and advertising and then actually making a purchase.” (05:10)
• Sean Pyles (on skepticism of AI ads): “Hmm. Yeah. For some reason I'm skeptical of all of those claims.” (03:47)
• Elizabeth Ayoola (on career moves): “Living in a big city equipped me with the transferable skills that I needed to get to where I am today.” (19:00)
• Tess Vigeland (on long-term perspective): “These decisions that you make at the earlier stages of your life, they are not the entire determinants of how your life is going to go... you will find out pretty quickly that life, it just doesn't work that way.” (34:59)
• Sean Pyles (on the future of all decisions): “It's not necessarily about the decision that you make, but what you do with that decision.” (35:56)
• Elizabeth Ayoola (on compounded savings in your 20s): “That is a lot of money that I could do a lot of things with. And by the way, we use NerdWallet's retirement calculator to get these numbers. So highly recommend playing with those...” (30:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• AI Shopping News & Discussion: 01:38–13:14
• Listener’s Residency Dilemma (question read): 16:16–18:10
• Host Experiences/Personal Career Moves: 18:18–23:33
• Opportunity vs. Saving Debate: 21:53–24:35
• Saving in Expensive Cities: 25:50–27:00
• Skill-Building in Any Location: 23:33–24:02
• Knowing Your Lifestyle Fit: 28:12–29:06
• Retirement Savings Examples/Compound Interest: 29:26–31:47
• On Lifestyle Creep & Spending: 31:47–32:59
• Hosts Reveal Their Choices: 33:11–34:31
• Producer Tess Vigeland’s Perspective: 34:31–37:19
• Final Reflections & Encouragement: 37:25–38:18

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Conclusion

This episode is a resourceful, candid guide for listeners facing pivotal life and money choices—whether navigating the new world of AI-powered consumerism or making major early-career decisions with uncertain outcomes. With practical wisdom and relatable stories, the Smart Money team reminds us that adaptability, self-awareness, and a little creativity can go a long way—financially and personally—no matter what the algorithm decides.

Next Episode Teaser: Tackling your questions about retirement account rollovers—when are they a good idea, and when is it okay to leave your retirement money where it is?

Contact:

• Call/Text: 901-730-6373
• Email: [e-mail]

Transcript

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[Sean Pyles]

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[Sean Pyles]

And California and for delivery Navigating early career choices is never easy. Figuring out questions like who you want to work for, where and what might seem simple, but it can be a complex equation. Today we'll walk through a listener's job dilemma, including how to deal with the fact that an algorithm will determine some of the answers to those question questions. Welcome to Nerd Wallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And I'm Elizabeth Iola. Later, we'll be answering a listener's question about how to think about early career choices when you're on your way to med school. But first, our weekly Money News roundup, where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money. Our news colleague Ana Hilhosky is back, and she's going to be talking about the age of AI shopping and how it could change how you spend and what you buy.

[Ana Helhosky]

The same tool that gives you helpful advice could also soon be serving you ads and be acting as the checkout all at once. So listen to this. A new study released on January 7 from IBM Institute for Business Value and the National Retail Federation found that almost half of consumers turn to AI for shopping and advice, and including product research, interpreting reviews and finding deals.

[Sean Pyles]

I am in the 50% that is not doing that currently. But it seems clear that the age of AI shopping is on the way. And there are some clear signals that changes are coming really soon.

[Ana Helhosky]

There's been a lot of recent developments, so first up, Google starting to fold shopping and advertising right into its generative AI chat platforms. Google's AI mode is now being used to show you personalized deals and shopping offers that are based on what you're looking for. And that's a pilot program called Direct Offers and it lets lets retailers present you discounts and special promotions directly into a chat when a user is considering making some kind of a purchase. And Google also unveiled a new standard called the Universal Commerce Protocol. Very catchy. And it allows brands and retailers like Shopify, Walmart, Target, Etsy to sell directly inside AI chats without making you click through to another site.

[Elizabeth Iola]

So you could ask Google's AI something like, what's a good carry on suitcase? Yes, that is personal because my son stabbed up my carry on suitcase while opening it from the box. So I need a new carry on suitcase and it'll both give you options and let you buy one directly in the chat.

[Ana Helhosky]

Yeah, exactly. Although you might want to be a little bit more specific. So what's a highly reviewed, lightweight, soft body, top open carry on suitcase? So specificity is something that always helps and prompts, especially with shopping. And one more thing about Google, for now, Google's ad team is focusing on shopping ads and offers in AI mode rather than in its chatbot Gemini. But that's pretty likely to change. So meanwhile, on January 16, OpenAI announced that it would begin testing ads in the free tier of ChatGPT. In a post on X, the company said the chat responses won't be influenced by ads, ads will be separate and labeled and advertisers can't see your chats.

[Sean Pyles]

Hmm. Yeah. For some reason I'm skeptical of all of those claims.

[Ana Helhosky]

Yeah, yeah, same. But give them the benefit of the doubt for right this second. OpenAI also has its own version of in chat shopping that's called instant checkout. And a partnership was announced with Shopify and Etsy in the fall. And basically it allows us users to see product listings right in the chat and if the product supports it, complete a single item purchase within the conversation.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Oh my gosh.

[Ana Helhosky]

Yeah.

[Sean Pyles]

Danger.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Yes. Especially for impulse shoppers and people who don't think before they spend. This is. Wow.

[Sean Pyles]

It's exactly what it's designed to do is to get them to spend without thinking.

[Ana Helhosky]

Yeah. And it's addictive. So in the future it's going to be offering multi item carts. You're going to be able to buy a bunch of stuff at once.

[Sean Pyles]

Oh my God.

[Ana Helhosky]

And it's going to be broadening the scope of which retailers it's going to be partnering with. So there'll be more choices. But we know that certain things are going to be served to you more than others. Basically, the convenience that comes with making purchases within an AI chat could completely transform shopping as we know it.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And Completely blow up your budget.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, I was just thinking, do you guys want to put money on how long it's going to be until Buy Now, Pay later is incorporated into the shopping tools by the end of the year? Yeah, exactly. This really raises some questions for consumers, like, are you even seeing the best option or are you comparison shopping anymore? Because I think that's still important and not just taking the recommendation from an AI tool blindly.

[Ana Helhosky]

AI shopping is going to be collapsing that line that exists right now between advice and advertising and then actually making a purchase. I was thinking about influencers. They get paid to advertise products to you, and brands are counting on your parasocial relationship with that influencer that is going to steer you toward making a purchase. But if you swap the influencer for an AI chatbot, and we already know how quickly people develop trust and in some cases, a sense of a relationship with AI tools, if an AI is telling you what to buy, where to buy it, and then letting you actually make that purchase without ever clicking a link or opening a new tab, that's going to be a pretty big shift in how people are shopping, in case.

[Elizabeth Iola]

You guys couldn't tell. I have a lot of apprehension about this, but I want to be balanced. So let's talk about some of the benefits of this method of shopping.

[Ana Helhosky]

You're probably going to see fewer sketchy websites featured that are just kind of like a big mix of letters that's supposed to be a brand. It's personalized, it's convenient, it's fast, it's easy, and you may be able to find really specific items more easily than traditional search methods. So recently I saw a podcaster that I follow also on Instagram wearing a pair of boots that I became kind of obsessed with. So I'm sorry to say. So I had chatgpt look for it and I had to use a little bit of, like, prompt adjusting along the way, but it was able to actually find them.

[Elizabeth Iola]

But.

[Ana Helhosky]

Oh yeah, but they were like, way outta my price range, like over a thousand dollars. So then I asked it to find some similar, cheaper knockoff options that also, like, prioritize comfort. And wading through the options separately outside of the chat, I found one for like $120 that worked for me.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Oh, that's a steal.

[Sean Pyles]

Okay, so you got your dupe. Totally.

[Ana Helhosky]

I mean, but like a solid dupe, they're very comfortable. I will say it was very helpful to use as a starting point to find what I was looking for and then to compare items. But I will say that even if it did offer me the option to check out within the chat, I don't think that I would like. I'm someone who, when I'm comparison shopping, I want to read reviews on the site itself on other sites and see if there's a discount available rather than just saying like, click. But that's only for things that I'm really considering.

[Sean Pyles]

I also wouldn't want to put my credit card information into one of these systems anyway. I just had my credit card used without my permission. I had to get a whole new card. It was a whole rigmarole. And I just don't want to give that information to a company that I don't trust totally.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And Ana, I have. I think I have the most important question that everybody wants to know. Are we going to get to see the boots now? We have to see the boots.

[Ana Helhosky]

I don't usually show my feet on camera weirdly enough, but I will privately send you a photo. Yeah, thank you.

[Sean Pyles]

Okay, so say I'm shopping inside an AI chat, Ana. What kind of mindset should I have besides being incredibly skeptical, which I already am?

[Ana Helhosky]

Yeah, I mean, that skepticism helps. So treating AI like a salesperson or an influencer is a good first approach. It's not really a neutral advisor. If advertisers are paying for their products to be featured to you. So you might need to tailor your queries to be more specific and then, of course, make other comparisons against other trusted retail websites. I will say that AI is going to try and ease the way and reduce all of your doubts, as it often does, and it'll say this is exactly what you're looking for. This option checks all of your boxes, et cetera.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Don't get got, guys. Okay. All right. So how can ads show up without feeling like ads?

[Ana Helhosky]

They're also going to feel like advice. So based on your past searches and popular with users like you, basically just algorithmic based advertising, I would say watch for language that signals that there's. That it is an ad or that there's a partnership. So featured partner from a trusted partner, sponsored result, et cetera. These products are paid to be there and they're not necessarily the best option for you. And I think that's something really crucial to remember. And AI could be prioritizing products that can be actually purchased inside the platform. So something from one of those retailers that they're partnering with and it's not necessarily the best reviewed or the cheapest that you can find elsewhere.

[Sean Pyles]

A lot of that wording that you just mentioned feels like subtle manipulation to make you feel more comfortable with the options that are being presented. And I think it would still be a good idea for folks to do their own research outside of one of these tools to make sure you are actually getting the right product for what you want. Okay, so what's the safest way to use AI for shopping?

[Ana Helhosky]

Right now, I would say something similar to what I did. But if you want to be more careful, basically use AI mainly for research and product comparison, especially if you're someone like you mentioned, Elizabeth, prone to impulse buying. I know I am. At 2am, don't, don't check out. Once that feature becomes more widely available, take that extra step. Click a link, go through the checkout process directly on a retailer site, and that gives you just that extra minute to say, do I actually really need this again at 2 o' clock in the morning? You're also going to want to continue to price check bigger purchases against multiple retailers that might carry that product so you can make sure that you're getting the best deal.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And I want to give a tip for all those impulse buyers. Just a little bit left, but hey, a good tip never hurt nobody. I have a running note. I use an iPhone and I use it as a wish list. So things that I really want to buy, I throw on that wish list. And sometimes the next day I'm like, hey, I don't really need that. So maybe this can still apply even when you're AI shopping.

[Ana Helhosky]

Just taking a little bit more time between like, I want that and then actually clicking purchase.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Now, what should shoppers still do the old fashioned way?

[Ana Helhosky]

Check returns, warranties. Make sure that those policies are being stated really clearly and accessibly. A lot of times we buy things online, then we don't want them. So you want to make sure that you can actually return it. But at a minimum, save receipts, take a screenshot, whatever it is that you need to do. Here's something else I want to add. The shift toward AI shopping is likely to move beyond the scope of what we're using it for. For research already, recommendations, or when it's more widely available, to click on a product to buy. It could also move toward delegating some more of the buying process to AI agents. People don't seem to hate that now. Like Sean. Call me a luddy, I don't want to hand my credit card over to an algorithm, but listen to this. A survey by Content Square, an AI analytics platform, found that about 30% of U.S. consumers said they'd be willing to let an AI agent complete a purchase on their behalf. So we're not even talking about just a conversation that leads to a purchase, but shifting the entire shopping flow over to AI.

[Elizabeth Iola]

So is it like a personal shopper then?

[Ana Helhosky]

Yeah, I think that that's basically what they're thinking.

[Sean Pyles]

At least 70% of us still have common sense.

[Ana Helhosky]

For now, Sean, until we're all convinced.

[Sean Pyles]

This is the way y, only a matter of time.

[Elizabeth Iola]

But wait, guys, I have a question for us. Are we haters? Are we like the people when the Internet came and they hated the Internet and it was bad and it was going to take over the whole world? Are we being AI haters right now? I don't know. What do we think?

[Ana Helhosky]

I use AI to, like, an embarrassing degree. Not with my writing. I just want to say that right out loud, but just with, you know, I was at the gym. What part did my body did I hurt? I use it instead of Google a lot of the time. I really do.

[Sean Pyles]

I think it can be useful, but I'm not going to trust it with my finances quite yet.

[Ana Helhosky]

I don't want to upload any of my personal information on there.

[Elizabeth Iola]

I'll be honest, a bit of me is a little scared of, and maybe I can relate with how people felt when the Internet came, of how much of our lives AI is taking up. On one hand, I'm happy with how much it can take off my plate, right? Repetitive tasks that I don't want to do, AI can do, but I'm also scared of, like, the things that it will replace and maybe it's just going to take over the whole planet. Okay, that's extreme.

[Ana Helhosky]

But, you know, that's a doomer perspective. But there are people who believe that. So I mean, anything's possible, right? I do want to have one last caveat for this entire conversation. The shift toward direct in chat AI shopping. Even though we're talking about it right now, it's like only kind of, sort of nearly here. But the rollout to the wider general population is still moving pretty slowly.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Well, thank you, Ana. This was an insightful conversation, and I will not be using AI as my personal shopper. All right, up next, we answer a listener's question about how to think through the financial implications of early career choices. But before we get into that, we want to remind you all to send us your money questions. If you want to learn how to budget better so you're not impulse shopping or you have questions about home buying, leave us a voicemail or you can text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 9017-30-N E R D. You can.

[Sean Pyles]

Also email [e-mail] and we're working on a special episode all about tax season 2026, so send us your tax questions. This week's money question is coming up next. Stay with us. Today's episode is sponsored by Quint's. Starting the year with a wardrobe Refresh Quince has you covered with luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing and building a wardrobe that lasts. Their versatile styles make it easy to reach for them day after day. Quince has all the staples covered from Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear. Their wardrobe essentials are crafted to last season after season. The quality shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics. Every piece is thoughtfully designed to be your new wardrobe essential. And like everything from Quint's, each piece is built with premium materials in ethical, trusted factories then priced far below what other luxury brands charge. I recently picked up their cashmere zip up hoodie and I can tell you I'm going to be living in this thing all winter long. It's so cozy and seems really built to last. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.com smartmoney for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quashe.com smartmoney to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com smartmoney this episode is sponsored by Roola. A new year always makes you think about yourself in a different way. You want to do better? Feel better? You start asking real questions. How can I take better care of myself this year? What can I do that would actually improve the way I move through my day?

[Elizabeth Iola]

For many of us, that answer includes taking care of our mental health. You want to feel better, show up better and also take care of yourself in a way that actually lasts.

[Sean Pyles]

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[Sean Pyles]

This year, make one change that you can actually stick with. Visit rula.com smartmoney to get started. That's R U L A.com smartmoney mental healthcare that's actually built to last. We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from a listener's email. Hi Elizabeth and Sean, I love your podcast and was hoping that you can help me with a job dilemma I'm having. I'm in my last year of medical school, which means over the next few months I have to rank all the hospitals I've been interviewing at for residency positions. In March, an algorithm will sort through everyone's ranks and tell me which hospital I'll be training at for the next five years. I'll be 26 when I start my training and 32 when I graduate. The starting salary for Residency is about 60 to $80,000 and goes up every year to about 100,000 to $120,000 in the last year of training. Once I graduate, I'll make around $500,000 to $750,000. Wow. That's a lot of money. Listener okay, my options right now can be sorted into three buckets. 1. New York City Great prestigious hospitals that will make it easy to find jobs in the future. Everything is very, very expensive and I probably will not be able to save a lot or put much into retirement. Two Other cities Pittsburgh, Boston, Philly, Baltimore Expensive, but less expensive than New York City. Still prestigious and will be easy to find jobs in the future. Option 3 Long Island, Connecticut Rhode Island Much less expensive than a major city and I can expect to save a ton, but hospitals aren't as prestigious. I'd still be able to find a job, but I wouldn't leave with the same set of skills as if I were to graduate from a New York City program. I'm essentially struggling with high cost of living now, but better opportunities in the future versus saving money early and good but not great opportunities in the future.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Thank you and this episode Sean and I are taking on this listener's question ourselves. Let's dive in, Sean.

[Sean Pyles]

All right, Elizabeth, I don't know about you, but when I saw this listener's question come in, I really related to it because I was in a similar position in my early 20s, trying to figure out how to balance living in a city that was expensive, but I thought would have good opportunities with moving to a place that was less expensive. But I wasn't really sure how it would pan out career wise for me. So how did you think about this in your early days of getting a job and making your living and finding a career? All of those things.

[Elizabeth Iola]

I just wanna clarify that I am ecstatic for the listener, but I do not relate to making half a million to 750 at 32. I don't. I don't anticipate to looking forward to that. So that's. I'm very happy for the listener. But what I do relate with is having to choose between living in a city with a high cost of living and balancing that with the opportunities. So after graduation, I moved to Nigeria, and one of the lures was the cheaper cost of living and potentially better opportunities because of less competition in the job market in Nigeria at the time. So I thought that I was going to get both a city with more easily accessible opportunities and lower cost of living relative to London, which is where I was coming from, which we know is an expensive city now after spending, wow, most of my twenties in Nigeria, in retrospect, it turned out that I was living in a relatively high cost city and the opportunities that I thought I was going to get, I didn't get because one, I was living in a city with a lot of nepotism and I didn't have access to those opportunities. And another thing is the naira kept devaluing, so the value of the money kept going lower and lower. But with that said, I wouldn't change my decision because living in a big city equipped me with the transferable skills that I needed to get to where I am today. So that's something I took away from it.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, the nepotism issue is really big, and that's a big part of why I didn't move to New York City. After graduating college, I was starting off in journalism and I had a lot of friends who were moving to New York City and it seemed like a good place to go for that, you know, kind of at face value. But I thought I would have a really hard time breaking in in such a large city. So I ended up moving out to the Bay Area. My twin sister was already there, and it seemed like a small enough area where I could find a ladder and climb it, although it was still quite expensive. This is part of why I ended up moving to Portland, Oregon eventually. But I did find that ladder. The ladder was called NerdWallet, and I'd been here for a number of years, and this helped me have a good career. So I think being in San Francisco was really key in my early 20s to get my career started. And then eventually, once I found my stride, I figured, hey, let me move somewhere where I can actually build the rest of the life that I want to have. And I think that's something our listeners should think about too, is that this is not a forever decision for them. Yes, they'll be there for six years, but they could move to any other place afterward.

[Elizabeth Iola]

I have a question for you, Sean, but when you say living in a big city help you to get your career started, are you referring to the job opportunities that you were able to access or the network that you was able to access?

[Sean Pyles]

It was both, really. I was able to get some good internships early on when I was in the Bay Area, and then a guy I was dating connected me to a job that ended up helping me get my job at Nerdwall because it helped pad out my resume and give me more experience. So it was kind of all of the above, just everything that a city offers you in terms of connection and jobs. And I also just loved living in San Francisco, so that was a nice plus too.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Let's get onto the next part of the listener's question. The option of saving money early but having fewer opportunities in the future. What are your thoughts on that, Sean?

[Sean Pyles]

I think it's a bit of a false choice here. I think our listener can save money wherever they are if they're really creative. Yes, you'll be able to save less in New York City, given how expensive it is. But they don't know for sure that they will have fewer opportunities if they decide to move to the suburbs. Because you just never know what opportunities might come your way in the future. Yes, you may not have as many as if you're living in a big city like New York. But you just should keep your mind open to the fact that your career is going to go in all sorts of different places that you're not really going to anticipate.

[Elizabeth Iola]

I love that you say that. And this might sound really woo woo, but I was reflecting on the past decade or so of my life and the way My career has gone, and I had such a clear plan of exactly how it needed to look. And I thought that I could control the outcome by a controlling the city I live in and the people that I talk to and all these things. But the truth is, sometimes opportunities are just a matter of luck. And yes, you can create your luck by putting yourself in the right place in the right time, but just like you said, you don't know where these opportunities are going to come from. So I think it's just putting one foot in front of the other and making decisions that align with what you need at the time.

[Sean Pyles]

And I'll say, I think my experience living in Portland over the past almost eight years now shows that you can have good opportunities living in a small city, especially when you're working a job that can be done from pretty much anywhere. I've been able to have a lower cost of living, buy a house, have a dog, do all the things I wanted to do here. But I'm not living in, you know, a big media hub necessarily, except I kind of am, because we're all living on the Internet, which is the biggest media hub there is. Right. So depending on what industry you're in, you may be able to have plenty of opportunities in a smaller city.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And one more thing I will add. I am not a medical student. I don't know exactly how it works, but one thing that I know has worked for me throughout my career is no matter how big or small the opportunity was, focusing on skill development and looking for opportunities in whatever place I'm working to develop those skills. So I know the listener was worried about maybe not getting as good opportunities in suburban areas and maybe not being able to build as many skill sets. But wherever you are, I think it's important to just make the most of what opportunities you have there to build your skills.

[Sean Pyles]

I think that's a good point, because a lot of times people may not even really have a say in where they're moving to with our listener. They can rank their top choices, but ultimately an algorithm is making the decision. And even if an algorithm isn't making the big decision for you, sometimes family circumstances might draw you back to a certain city if you're trying to help out a loved one. Or maybe you just get a job in a place that isn't your number one pick. But if you're focusing on the skills that you're building while you are wherever you are, that's the number one thing. So you can at least move forward even if you aren't Living where you ideally would want to be.

[Elizabeth Iola]

So I actually did that during the early stages of my career in the US I had moved from London. I only moved with, I believe it was $6,000. That's all I had to my name. I was doing an internship at the time that was paying me $8 an hour. And I didn't want to end up, you know, in a serious financial hole. So one of the things that I did is I moved into a room. I rented a room in a house with my son to start with. So I was able to maintain a small emergency fund and also continue to save until my income increased enough to where I was comfortable living on my own. Sometimes you have to make those short term sacrifices. It wasn't fun living with other people, especially coming from London where I was living alone. But having financial security at the time was more important to me.

[Sean Pyles]

That's so important. And also kudos on having an emergency fund when you were moving like that. I think, of course you had a son, so you were really focused on security and stability. When I moved out to the Bay Area, I think I had $300 to my name and a lot of really polite conversations with my dad to ask him to help me cover my rent for the last year. So thanks, Papa Piles for that. Wouldn't be here where I am without that freedom, that's for sure. But having a move like this, it's a good time. All right, let me get Pepper.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Pepper got something to say too.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, she says you need to sacrifice this recording and take me on a walk. We'll go on a walk in a little bit. Okay.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Hey, Pepper girl.

[Sean Pyles]

She's so stinky from the rain. Okay, go lay down, please. Thank you. Goodbye. I think something our listeners should consider is what they might be willing to sacrifice to accomplish multiple goals at once and also how they can get creative to save some money. They are living in an expensive area. So for example, if they really want to live in that expensive city where they think they'll have more opportunities, what can they do to still save money for retirement or build up an emergency fund? Maybe that means forgoing some Broadway plays when you're in New York or like you did Elizabeth, having some roommates. Also, just try to get as creative as you can to save money while enjoying your life. I recommend everyone join their local library and see what perks it might afford them. Like in the Portland area, you can actually rent local experiences. Here you can rent going to our incredible Japanese garden, which otherwise run you over $20 per ticket. So there are all sorts of cool benefits that help you enjoy your life and your city and also save you money.

[Elizabeth Iola]

I have experienced that in two cities now, having to cut back on things to live in an expensive city. When I lived in Lagos, Nigeria, again, I did not have a car because I could not afford to have a car and also pay my rent. And I rode around on what you call an Okada. So it's essentially like a bike. It is a motorbike and it's pretty dangerous. But it would cost me maybe, I don't know, 2 bucks a ride versus 20 bucks a ride for an Uber, depending on where I was going. That's something.

[Sean Pyles]

I think the equivalent is like a lime scooter, basically, which people do take all around the cities. And they are super dangerous.

[Elizabeth Iola]

They are. Listen, those Okadas would drive the opposite direction in traffic. Like, they're very dangerous and terrifying. A little ridiculous.

[Sean Pyles]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Iola]

But, you know, I love a good thrill, so I didn't mind. It's my thrill for the day. And then when I lived in Florida, one of the things I had to sacrifice, which I love to do, is travel because I couldn't afford to do it during the earlier years of living there.

[Sean Pyles]

But hey, you saved for a few years. You avoided for, went travel for a few years, and now look at you. You have a place that you really love that's less expensive. You have your son in a great school that he seems to like, and you can travel. You took some great trips last year.

[Elizabeth Iola]

All the sacrifices were worth it, is what I'm hearing you say, Sean.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, this is also a good time for our listener to understand what kind of city they might want to live in long term. Because, yeah, they're going to be in this location, wherever they land, for six years. So they should maybe visit some of these locations ahead of time, if they can, in these coming months and realize, okay, is living in New York City feasible for them? For me, you know, I visited many times. I have some great friends that live there. Every time I visit, I think, this is so fun. I would never want to live here. I love living in a smaller city where I can know my neighbors, I can walk down the street and I'm not bumping elbows with a thousand people. So think about what kind of city really resonates with your lifestyle and your values and your desired lifestyle, and just think about all of those things and how that might connect to where you might end up.

[Elizabeth Iola]

So is nature important to you? Would you like to be somewhere that is central to the arts, because that's a huge value point for you. Maybe you want to live in close proximity to family, because that's important.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, or public transit. I mean, think about living in New York. You can just hop on a subway or a bus and be anywhere you want. And you know, it might take you 30, 40 minutes, but still you don't have to get in your car, drive somewhere, look for parking. That's been the sacrifice living in Portland, where the public transit infrastructure is not quite as robust as like, I kind of drive everywhere. But I do love to drive, so at least that's okay.

[Elizabeth Iola]

The listener also mentioned saving for retirement. I think it's a good time to talk about saving for retirement in your 20s.

[Sean Pyles]

Saving as early as you can is really important. And I'll give you an example with some numbers that lays this out. So if you start saving at 26, you save $500 a month, retire at 67, and you have a pre retirement rate of return of 6%. At your retirement age, you'll have just under $1.3 million. Now take those same figures, but you start to save at 32. When our listener says that they'll be done with their residency at their retirement age, they will only have around $850,000. So that's a difference of around half a million dollars in those six years of saving.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And that's a lot of money that I could do a lot of things with. And by the way, we use NerdWallet's retirement calculator to get these numbers. So highly recommend playing with those to see what your own retirement savings could potentially look like. That is a hobby of mine that I enjoy doing.

[Sean Pyles]

And that's why you're a nerd, Elizabeth, because you enjoy playing with the retirement calculator.

[Elizabeth Iola]

I do, I do, I really do.

[Sean Pyles]

But a big thing that our listeners should be considering too is that they're in a really different situation from most people because they may be making 500 to $750,000 a year once they're post their residency, which you mentioned earlier, Elizabeth. So that does slightly change the calculus here. Yes, we want people to be saving as much as they can for as long as they can, but they might have the opportunity to backload all of their savings and catch up for those six years that they weren't able to save as much, which might make the difference in how much they can save in each location less of an important factor compared with the lifestyle question of where they would want to live and what kind of life living in that kind of city would afford them.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Maybe the listener in the next couple of years will be a fire disciple and they'll decide to do coast fire or something and save a whole chunk of their salary for early retirement, because that is a lot of money. Depending on their debt and their expenses, they might have a lot of wiggle room to save.

[Sean Pyles]

I would love to talk with this listener in six years after they finish their residency and see how much or how little they're attempted by lifestyle creep. Because going from making a hundred thousand dollars to $750,000 a year would make me want to buy a brand new house with cash and maybe a really nice car and maybe a nice handbag too.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Let's talk about it, Sean. So, nerd wallet, if listening, if you happen to increase our salary to 500 or 750k, what's the first thing you do? Sean?

[Sean Pyles]

You know, I actually think that would be a great experiment for the company to run to see how we can embody this lifestyle change on the podcast, just to inform our listeners. So let's take note of that and talk about it with our manager.

[Elizabeth Iola]

We need a case study.

[Sean Pyles]

If I got that amount of money, I would buy a new house. Where my partner and I live in Portland is a sweet, cute little home, but it's a little small and we would love just maybe one more bedroom. So I think that would be top of my list is a new, bigger home. What about you?

[Elizabeth Iola]

Bigger home sounds lovely. You know, I'm a forever renter, but I would buy a house. If I got that kind of salary increase, I would.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And I'd be able to comfortably pay for the repairs and still have lots left over.

[Sean Pyles]

That's really it. Because part of why owning a home is annoying is because you have to repair things yourself. But if you have enough money, you just throw it at people who fix the problems for you.

[Elizabeth Iola]

One downside though, Sean, is that you might be on the show by yourself more. Because I'd be on vacation a lot. Just saying.

[Sean Pyles]

Okay, well, maybe at that point we'll have AI generated robot versions of ourselves that we can have now.

[Elizabeth Iola]

You're taking it too far. You're taking it too far.

[Sean Pyles]

Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. We'll never do that. We are all human authenticity here on Smart Money. Okay, well, I gotta ask you, Elizabeth, of these three options that we've been discussing with our listener, which one would you choose and why?

[Elizabeth Iola]

The honest answer is I would choose option number one, and that's because I have an unhealthy relationship With New York, I'm obsessed. And if I could live in New York in my early 20s and live out my Sex and the City dreams, I'd absolutely take the opportunity. And I also would choose that option because I am a pretty good saver. And I know that once I got to that 500 or 750k mark, I would save a ton of money and I'd still be on track for retirement.

[Sean Pyles]

And I'm sure you'd be able to still find ways to save when you're making less, because $100,000, $120,000 is not a lot in New York City especially. I mean, in their early years, they said they'll be making closer to maybe 60 to $80,000. So that's going to be pretty lean in New York City. But if you are frugal enough and you're creative enough, you can still tuck something away.

[Elizabeth Iola]

And the listener has time on their hands, right? If they're tucking something away, even if it's a minimal amount, it's still going to compound over time, and it's better than saving nothing at all.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, me, I would probably go with option two, because as I said, New York City is a little bit too big of a city for me to live in. I would do exactly what I did all over again, living in San Francisco and in Oakland, being able to find my career opportunities. And, you know, I'll be honest here, I actually saved very little money before I got my job at NerdWallet. But, hey, I had a wonderful time living in the city that gave me the lifestyle that I wanted.

[Tess Viglin]

Hey, guys, can I pop in here?

[Sean Pyles]

Yes. Everyone listening. This is our producer, Tess, who we call on from time to time to impart career wisdom because she literally wrote a book on how to navigate your career. So, Tess.

[Tess Viglin]

Yeah, you didn't call on me this time, but I'm just popping in anyway.

[Sean Pyles]

We always love to have you here. So what would you do, Tess?

[Tess Viglin]

Well, you know, I'm not even going to talk about what I would do, but as the resident old person.

[Sean Pyles]

You said it.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Old and fabulous.

[Tess Viglin]

I've been around for a while, and I just kind of want to say to our listener, and frankly, even to you guys, that, you know, these decisions that you make at the. The earlier stages of your life, they are not the entire determinants of how your life is going to go. They're just not. And so I would encourage the listener kind of not to imbue them with so much importance that you worry about how it's Going to affect you 20 years down the line, 30 years down the line, you will find out pretty quickly that life, it just doesn't work that way. What is the phrase? We plan? God laughs.

[Sean Pyles]

Yes.

[Tess Viglin]

You know, whether you're religious or not, you kind of get the idea there. Life is gonna just toss all kinds of curves at you. So, you know, if you don't make the correct decision now, correcting quotes.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah.

[Tess Viglin]

It will in all likelihood turn out completely fine.

[Sean Pyles]

That reminds me of a piece of advice I've heard where it's not necessarily about the decision that you make, but what you do with that decision. Yes. So you can always learn from a quote, unquote wrong decision or one that doesn't make you as happy as you and choose differently next time.

[Tess Viglin]

I just feel like this question comes up so much with people, particularly in their 20s, and you don't have really perspective on it because you're so young. And I would say, particularly this listener, they're becoming a doctor, which is completely amazing and admirable everywhere you go. Right. So it doesn't really, really matter. And you're still going to get the skills that you need no matter where you go. So I would just say don't worry about whether this turns out exactly the way you want it to, because nothing in life is going to be that way and all of this is going to change.

[Sean Pyles]

And hey, our listener is at least thinking about these things. They're looking down the road to see how their decisions now might pan out in the future, which is more than I could say for myself at this time. So good for them for even thinking about retirement savings at this early age.

[Tess Viglin]

Certainly thinking about retirement savings is always a must, if you can. But this notion that where you live, what school you go to, all of that is going to determine the rest of your life, it's just not true.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah.

[Tess Viglin]

Thus endeth the lesson. I'll turn it back over to you guys.

[Sean Pyles]

Thanks, Tess.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Thank you, Tess. Just to end on that beautiful note from Tess, who would have thought that I would go from a call center job, from living in Lagos, from living in all these different places in the world, to the Smart Money podcast. I never envisioned being a podcast co host or even working in personal finance. So that is just a testament to how life does not always go how you plan, but it still can turn out beautiful.

[Sean Pyles]

Elizabeth, I didn't know that you worked at a call center. I did two in the summers over college. And I think that in some ways that job really primed me for what I'M doing now. And what you're doing now teaches you how to talk to anyone. Yeah. And have a good conversation. So here you go. Every little step along the way, as crazy as it was, as wild as those rides you had on, that, like, sketchy little motorbike in Legos were, it got you to where you are now. So that's beautiful.

[Elizabeth Iola]

Virtual group hug.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah. All right. Well, listener, let us know where you land. We'd love to continue this conversation with you. And that's all we have for this episode. Remember that we're here to answer your money questions. So turn to the Nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 9101-730-NERD. You can also email [e-mail] we want.

[Elizabeth Iola]

You to join us next time to hear us take on a number of your questions about retirement account rollovers. When are they a good idea? When are you okay leaving your retirement money where it is? We're going to help you answer that. Follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

[Sean Pyles]

Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

[Elizabeth Iola]

This episode was produced by Tess Viglin and Anna Helhovsky. Hilary Georgi helped with editing. Nick Karismi mixed our audio. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

[Sean Pyles]

And with that said, until next time, turn to the Nerds.

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