NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast: How to Negotiate a Raise in a Tough Economy (w/ Brown Ambition’s Mandy Money)
Release Date: June 9, 2025

In this insightful episode of NerdWallet’s Smart Money Podcast, hosts Sean Files and Elizabeth Ayola delve into the art of negotiating a raise amidst economic uncertainties. Featuring Mandy Woodruff Santos from the Brown Ambition podcast—a renowned career coach and personal finance expert—the episode offers practical strategies and inspirational stories to empower listeners in their financial and professional journeys.

1. Episode Introduction

The episode kicks off with a light-hearted icebreaker between hosts Elizabeth Ayola and Sean Files, setting an engaging tone for the discussion ahead. They introduce the main topic: compensation negotiations and career strategies in an unpredictable economic landscape.

2. Introducing Mandy Woodruff Santos

Mandy Woodruff Santos is warmly welcomed as an honorary "nerd" and introduced as an award-winning career coach, personal finance expert, speaker, and writer. Mandy shares her journey from being a financial journalist at Business Insider and Yahoo Finance to founding her own podcast, Brown Ambition, aimed at centering conversations about finance for women of color.

Notable Quote:
“Business Insider... I did it until it couldn't make any money off that. So I started Brown Ambition, which is now my main focus.”
— Mandy Woodruff Santos [03:27]

3. Mandy’s Career Journey and Building Brown Ambition

Mandy recounts her transition from traditional financial journalism to creating a platform that resonates with her identity and audience. She highlights the challenges she faced in corporate environments and the liberating decision to launch Brown Ambition as a side hustle that became her primary endeavor.

Key Points:

• Starting Brown Ambition: Mandy felt the need for a more authentic voice in personal finance, especially for women of color.
• Success and Growth: Through perseverance, Mandy grew Brown Ambition into a successful venture, allowing her to 10x her salary over a decade by strategically navigating her career moves.
• Mentorship: A pivotal moment in her career was advice from her mentor, Ray Metoyer, emphasizing the importance of always seeking new opportunities and leveraging them to secure deserved compensation.

4. Strategies for Negotiating Raises

Mandy shares actionable strategies for effectively negotiating raises, especially in a challenging economic climate.

Notable Strategies:

• Know Your Market Value:
  “You have to know your market value in order to go out and assert your value.”
  — Mandy Woodruff Santos [06:36]

  Understanding your worth in the market is crucial. Mandy advises continuously researching and staying informed about industry standards and compensation trends.

• Leverage Opportunities:
  “I had a lot of opportunities come to me because I never had to apply for those roles. People came to me with opportunities.”
  — Mandy Woodruff Santos [06:26]

  Mandy emphasizes the importance of building a reputation that attracts opportunities rather than relying solely on job applications.

• Transparent Conversations:
  Establishing open dialogues with peers about compensation can demystify salary negotiations and provide valuable insights.

• Creating Your Own Projects:
  For those struggling to find higher-paying roles through traditional means, Mandy suggests embarking on entrepreneurial projects that showcase skills and attract potential employers.

Notable Quote on Negotiation:
“I think loyalty doesn't pay. Loyalty feels good, but it doesn't pay.”
— Mandy Woodruff Santos [12:07]

Mandy underscores the importance of prioritizing financial growth over unwavering loyalty when it hampers your earning potential.

5. Listener Money Question: Balancing Roth vs. Traditional Retirement Accounts

The episode transitions to a listener segment where Mitch from California seeks advice on optimizing his retirement contributions between Roth and Traditional 403B accounts.

Mitch’s Situation:

• Household: Mitch, his wife, and two seven-month-old twins.
• Income: Combined household income of approximately $230,000.
• Retirement Accounts: Mitch contributes to a 403B with options for Roth or Traditional, while his wife has a 401K without an employer match.

Advice Provided:

• Maximizing Contributions:
  “Think about how you can maximize the amount that you're putting in given what's available to you.”
  — Sean Files [33:33]

  Sean advises prioritizing contributions to accounts with higher limits, such as Traditional 403B, especially when nearing the peak earning years.

• Tax Diversification:
  Contributing to both Roth and Traditional accounts can provide tax flexibility in retirement. Mandy suggests a split (e.g., 75% Traditional, 25% Roth) to hedge against potential future tax increases.

• Roth vs. Traditional Considerations:

  • Roth Accounts: Pay taxes now for tax-free withdrawals in retirement. Beneficial if expecting higher tax rates in the future.
  • Traditional Accounts: Offer tax-deferred growth and lower taxable income now, beneficial during peak earning years.

• Future Planning:
  For those considering early retirement (FIRE movement), maintaining a brokerage account for flexibility and avoiding penalties associated with early withdrawals from retirement accounts is recommended.

Notable Quote on Tax Strategy:
“Contributing to a Roth now can be a good idea because you pay income tax on the amount that you put into a Roth IRA at the front.”
— Sean Files [28:40]

Sean elaborates on how Roth contributions can be advantageous by locking in current tax rates before potential increases.

6. Additional Financial Safeguards

Mitch shares his proactive approach to financial security, including term life insurance, supplemental coverage, 529 plans for educational savings, and establishing trusts. The hosts commend these measures, highlighting the importance of comprehensive financial planning for family protection.

7. Conclusion and Final Takeaways

The episode wraps up with affirmations of Mitch's solid financial groundwork and encouragement to continue refining his retirement strategy. Mandy and the hosts emphasize the importance of community support, continuous learning, and strategic planning in achieving financial goals.

Final Insight from Mandy:
“The economy will be shifting and changing. At the end of the day, you have to believe that you have everything that you need exactly where you are and that there is no version of events where you don't find an opportunity that works for you.”
— Mandy Woodruff Santos [13:21]

This powerful reminder underscores the resilience and adaptability needed to navigate financial challenges successfully.

Key Takeaways:

• Prepare and Research: Understand your market value and stay informed about industry compensation standards.
• Leverage Opportunities: Build a reputation that attracts job offers naturally rather than solely relying on applications.
• Transparency Matters: Open discussions about salaries with peers can provide valuable insights and reduce negotiation anxieties.
• Diversify Retirement Contributions: Balance between Roth and Traditional accounts to ensure tax flexibility in retirement.
• Comprehensive Financial Planning: Incorporate life insurance, educational savings, and trusts to secure your family's financial future.
• Stay Resilient: Embrace the evolving economic landscape with confidence, believing in your ability to find and create opportunities.

For those seeking actionable financial advice and strategies to enhance their career and personal finances, this episode of NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast delivers a wealth of knowledge, bolstered by Mandy Woodruff Santos’s expert insights and experiences.