How to Talk Finances Before Cohabitating, and Why Coffee and Tea Prices Are Surging

Summary

NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: How to Talk Finances Before Cohabitating, and Why Coffee and Tea Prices Are Surging
Date: August 28, 2025
Hosts: Sean Pyles, CFP®, Elizabeth Ayola
Guests: Ana Helhoski (News), Rick Vanderkinijf (Editor)

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Episode Overview

This episode splits into two major themes:

1. Money News Deep Dive: Why coffee and tea—especially matcha—are getting so expensive. Hosts and guests unpack inflation, supply chain issues, and new tariffs affecting these beloved beverages.
2. Money & Relationships: Addressing a listener question, Sean and Elizabeth dive into the often awkward yet crucial conversation of how couples can talk about finances before moving in together. They share personal anecdotes, actionable tips, and discussion themes to navigate this milestone with transparency and confidence.

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1. Money News Roundup: Coffee & Tea Price Surges

Segment starts: [01:44]

Key Discussion Points

• Coffee Prices Rising Due to Multiple Factors

  • Coffee prices up nearly 15% year-over-year—much faster than general inflation.

  • Major drivers: climate change disrupting crops in Brazil (the world's largest coffee producer) and Vietnam (the top robusta producer) through repeated droughts.

  • Climate impact on the supply chain seems more persistent, not just cyclical.

    “Droughts in Brazil… have really sort of knocked the industry sideways.”
    — Rick Vanderkinijf [03:32]

• US Reliance on Coffee Imports

  • Domestic US coffee production is less than 1%. Most comes from Hawaii and Puerto Rico, far too little to meet demand ([04:26]).
  • US can't “suddenly scale up” coffee farming domestically.

• Tariffs Adding to the Chaos

  • New 50% tariffs on Brazilian coffee mean dramatic cost increases: “50% is too much to absorb or pass along… it’s set off a mad scramble.”
    — Rick Vanderkinijf [04:56]
  • Only Mexican coffee avoids tariffs due to trade agreements, but supply is limited and demand is already pushing prices up.

• Tea Trends: The Matcha Boom

  • Matcha is now “fully steeped” into US café culture, fueled by social media and wellness trends.
  • Japan supplies the bulk of US matcha; green tea exports up 25% from 2023 to 2024 ([07:09]).
  • Export demand leads to record prices: $244 million in Japanese green tea, half of it matcha.

• Tariffs Affecting Tea

  • Japan’s tea: 15% tariff, China: 30%, India: 50%. No way to avoid price hikes for US consumers.
  • US tea farms supply only 0.02% of consumption.

  “Tea farms in the US supply about 0.02% of what Americans consume. So tariffs are going to be impossible to avoid…”
  — Ana Helhoski [08:21]

• Advice for Consumers

  • Making coffee or matcha at home remains much cheaper, but prices on home-use products (like tins of matcha powder) are also climbing ([08:21]).
  • Cafés charge widely differing prices, even within Starbucks: $5.25 in Michigan, $6.80 in Brooklyn ([08:21]).

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2. Money Question Deep Dive: Financial Conversations Before Moving In Together

Segment starts: [10:49]

Key Discussion Points

The Importance of Money Talks Before Cohabitation

• Starting the Conversation:

  • Acknowledge it’s awkward—this is a muscle you have to build.
  • Set a positive, nonjudgmental tone; it’s about caring for the partnership, not interrogation.
  • Suggest simple boundaries: “Let’s take a 30-minute walk and talk about money—then set it aside until next time.”
    — Sean Pyles [14:36]

• Ongoing Dialogue, Not a One-Time Checklist

  • Topics don’t need to be covered in one heavy session.

    “It doesn't have to be everything covered all at once… You want it to be an ongoing dialogue.”
    — Sean Pyles [14:36]

Primary Financial Topics to Discuss

1. Income Transparency

   • Be open about earnings, frequency, and stability.
   • Crucial for deciding how to split bills fairly.

   “A lot of couples want to do 50/50, because that seems fair, but in fact, it's really not if incomes are wildly different.”
   — Sean Pyles [17:07]

   • Address gender dynamics and potential discomfort, especially if one partner earns significantly more ([18:17]).

     “If you have a partner who is making you shrink or making you feel small because you earn more, then I think you might have bigger issues…”
     — Elizabeth Ayola [19:15]

2. Savings (Emergency Funds)

   • Each partner should have a personal emergency or “FU fund” before moving in ([19:38]).

     “At the bare minimum, each of you should have enough to cover one month's worth of rent... Ideally, enough for a security deposit and another month's rent.”
     — Sean Pyles [19:38]

3. Debt Disclosure

   • Talk about existing debts (credit cards, student loans, etc.).
   • More important than the amount: why does the debt exist and is there a plan to pay it down? ([21:31])

     “Are you accumulating more debt? What are your spending habits? Why do you have this debt?”
     — Elizabeth Ayola [21:31]

   • NerdWallet survey: 10% of people wouldn’t date someone with any credit card debt; 40% say it’s not a dealbreaker ([20:59]).

4. Credit Status

   • Pull and discuss credit reports; negative marks can affect rental applications and trust ([23:11]).

     “If they aren’t good at paying their bills, what's that going to mean when you are legally obligated to be paying for this lease…”
     — Sean Pyles [23:11]

5. Logistics & Moving Expenses

   • Plan for moving costs: truck rental, security deposit, new furniture, takeout during transition ([24:28]).

     “If that's going to be the case for you all, how are you guys going to split those costs?”
     — Elizabeth Ayola [24:28]

6. Splitting Ongoing Bills

   • How will rent and utilities be divided? Proportional to income or 50/50? Pay directly or use a joint account? ([24:45])
   • Consider what works best—joint accounts aren’t essential for everyone.

     “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it … your plan doesn’t have to be set in stone.”
     — Elizabeth Ayola [26:17]

7. Conflict and Communication

   • Expect disagreements about spending, saving, or priorities.

     “Nothing is going to make you have to do more teamwork than finances.”
     — Elizabeth Ayola [23:48]

   • Set financial goals together (e.g., saving for a trip vs. building up an emergency fund) to resolve differences ([28:12]).

   • It’s okay for plans to evolve; periodic check-ins help keep you aligned.

     “Things are going to change... If you have this muscle of talking about finances, you can pick up the slack.”
     — Sean Pyles [26:40]

8. Combining Finances: Proceed with Caution

   • Merging money is a significant trust step—don’t rush, especially before marriage or deep commitment ([29:26]).

     “Unless you’re married or getting close to married, I would be a little wary of combining finances too much...”
     — Sean Pyles [29:26]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You are supposed to be on the same team. So it is uncomfortable...if you have to shrink yourself [over your income].”
  — Elizabeth Ayola [18:47]

• “Moving in together is a time where it can be make or break for your relationship because you are seeing their values. You're seeing how you can navigate difficult situations.”
  — Sean Pyles [19:38]

• “Each of you should have enough to cover one month's worth of rent ...so you can just get out of that housing situation if you really need to.”
  — Sean Pyles [19:38]

• “The longer you wait to talk about [income], the harder it can be to talk about them, because it bubbles up and it becomes this source of secrecy.”
  — Sean Pyles [16:17]

• “[Combining finances] requires a certain level of trust ... If people are going to move in together, that is a huge thing to think about.”
  — Elizabeth Ayola [28:48]

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Key Takeaways & Practical Tips

• Start financial conversations early—with an open, nonjudgmental mindset. Take it one step at a time.
• Be honest about income, savings, debts, and spending habits; this helps divide expenses fairly and build trust.
• Keep some personal emergency savings (“FU fund”) in case things go south.
• Use moving in together as an opportunity to set and discuss joint financial goals.
• Decide together if and when to combine finances (joint accounts, splitting bills, etc.); tailor this to your relationship.
• Review credit and past financial behaviors as they impact your ability to co-sign on leases or loans.
• Make money talk a recurring conversation, not a dreaded one-off event. Plans and roles should evolve as circumstances change.

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Resource Reminders

• Listeners can leave money questions at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail] for answers on future episodes.
• Share your budget for possible review, and check the show notes for listener survey and Smart Money Podcast giveaways.

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Episode Flow – Important Timestamps

| Topic | Start Time | |------------------------------------------------|------------| | Sky-high Coffee & Tea Prices | 01:44 | | Coffee Market Analysis & Impact of Tariffs | 03:10 | | Tea & Matcha Trends and Tariffs | 06:22 | | Listener Money Question: Finances & Cohabiting | 10:49 | | The Importance of Income Transparency | 15:20 | | Savings – The “FU Fund” | 19:38 | | Discussing Debt and Credit | 20:59 | | Dividing Moving & Household Expenses | 24:28 | | Splitting Ongoing Bills | 24:45 | | Conflict, Goals, and Evolving Financial Plans | 27:07 | | Combining Finances — Proceeding with Caution | 29:26 |

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Final Word

Money may be uncomfortable to talk about, but doing so honestly—especially before moving in with a significant other—is essential for relationship health and financial stability. Take it step by step, revisit as needed, and remember: there’s no one-size-fits-all, but avoiding the conversation never works.

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“Until next time, turn to the nerds.”

Transcript

[Sean Pyles]

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[Sean Pyles]

Conversations with romantic partners can be tricky. You don't want to judge. You want to be open and honest. But you also want to make sure you're getting the whole picture. So today we are going to sit down and talk about how to talk about it, maybe with an increasingly expensive cup of coffee. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. Later this episode, Sean and I are going to talk about some good ways to communicate about money with a romantic partner. But first, our weekly money news roundup, where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money.

[Sean Pyles]

Our news colleague Ana Hillhosky is back, and we're talking about sky high prices for a cup of joe. Getting a caffeine buzz is starting to break the bank, right, Ana?

[Ana Helhoski]

Yeah, if you think your daily caffeine fix is expensive now, just wait for tariffs to kick in. So today I'm joined by my editor, Rick Vanderkinijf, to talk about our favorite morning pick me ups. Rick, welcome back.

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

Hey, thanks for having me. Good to be back.

[Ana Helhoski]

So I take it that you are a coffee drinker.

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

I am a coffee drinker. I will say I grew up at a time when kids did not drink coffee. I didn't start drinking until I was 30 working on a newspaper coffee desk. But yeah, I suddenly turned into A coffeeholic and have been ever since. How about you?

[Ana Helhoski]

I was a former coffee drinker, or should I say child coffee drinker because every morning, starting when I was about 7 or 8, I'd wake up super early and I'd have a cup of coffee with my dad where everybody else got up. But about 10 years later my teeth and stomach were rotting out so I had to stop. So then I switched over to tea. And I've been a long time tea drinker. But today we're going to talk a little bit about a very specific type of tea, matcha, which is really popular if you're on social media.

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

Well, we'll start with coffee because coffee is obviously the dominant drink that Americans drink. Surveys say that about 2/3 of Americans drink coffee daily and an average of three cups a day, which is like puts me dead center in the average. I can't drink past 11am so I do switch to tea, but that's where I start.

[Ana Helhoski]

And that's more than bottled water, soda, tea, juice, everything else, right?

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

Yeah, well, if you believe the National Coffee association survey, yes, it's the biggest past all of those and it's been pretty steady. Coffee is America's drink, basically.

[Ana Helhoski]

Coffee is getting more expensive though. So what's driving that cost increase? Is it mostly inflation or is it something more specific to coffee?

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

It's been rising faster than the baseline inflation rate. Roasted coffee, the kind that you pick up in a bag at the supermarket, is up almost 15% year over year. That's well over the sort of 3% background rate. A lot of that is coffee is a very specific kind of agricultural product. It doesn't grow everywhere, obviously and it's being sort of really hit by climate change. Droughts in Brazil, which is the world's biggest producer of coffee, a couple of really big droughts have really sort of knocked the industry sideways. Also Vietnam, which grows the most robusta coffee in the world, has been hit by droughts. So this is a short term problem. I mean, there have always been droughts and cycles, but this seems like more of a prolonged impact from climate change.

[Ana Helhoski]

And the US is importing almost all that it's coffee because US producers can't really keep up with consumption, right?

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

Yeah, basically. I mean, Kona coffee from Hawaii is kind of well known, but really it's only a tiny amount is grown there these days. We grow some coffee in Puerto Rico, but combined it's less than 1% of what America drinks. So it's not really a product that we can sort of suddenly Scale up. We can't grow fields of coffee in Kansas or anything like that.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Right.

[Ana Helhoski]

So there's not a real domestic coffee growing industry. And that means that President Trump's wave of tariffs are gonna really affect coffee prices, right?

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

Totally. I mean, yeah, some of them have been in place obviously since April, the 10%. And that's sort of been further turbulence on top of just the background inflation and droughts and things like that. But as of early this month, some of those main coffee producing countries, they went up and Brazil is the big one. We have a 50% tariff on everything coming out of Brazil. I think there was a lot of pressure, pressure and a lot of hope that there would be an exemption for coffee because obviously we're not trying to protect a domestic growing industry. But it didn't happen. And 50% is, from what I've spoken to producers and roasters, 50% is too much to absorb or pass along. And everyone's scrambling to try to get alternate supplies. But Brazil grows something like a third of the world's coffee. Basically all coffee ends up in a cup somewhere. It's not like they're a huge surplus supplies. So it just, it's set off a mad scramble, basically.

[Ana Helhoski]

Anything else you want to add about coffee?

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

We're seeing a lot of turmoil. Producers and roasters are really scrambling. The only major coffee producing country that does not have a tariff now is Mexico because it's covered by a trade agreement, but there's not that much coffee. And because demand for Mexican coffee is going up, it's going up anyway, even though there's not a tariff there. So it's a little bit of chaos right now. So I know some of those issues like climate change and supply issues are affecting Matcha, but it's a little bit, there are some, some wrinkles there too as well. Right.

[Ana Helhoski]

There's different kinds of pressure on the tea industry, in particular Matcha. So if you are on any kind of image based social media, Matcha's pretty much everywhere. It's a staple for fashion, wellness, lifestyle influencers and the aspiring. I was at a cafe yesterday and I'd say 8 out of 10 people I saw had a matcha in hand. It's fully steeped now into a American cafe culture. But I do want to be clear. If you think matcha is new, you are many centuries too late. It hails from Japan and has long been used in tea ceremonies. That said, it's become a pretty big global trend and demand in recent years.

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

Has spiked and I imagine a similar problem there's not where, where is matcha grown now? Is it entirely in Japan? Are there other places that are providing those kinds of products?

[Ana Helhoski]

You can find matcha producers in China, India, and even Kenya, but the overwhelming majority comes from Japan. So back in the early 2000s, only about 1% of Japanese tea production was exported. And by the end of 2023, it was roughly 10%. And demand in the US is driving a lot of that growth. So in 2024, Japan's green tea exports went up 25% compared to the previous year. That's pretty significant. And that's hitting a record $244 million. Half of that, about 4,400 metric tons was Matcha.

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

I imagine tariffs are a factor in the matcha world as well.

[Ana Helhoski]

Yeah, they're hitting matcha and just generally tea pretty hard. So Japan, the main supplier, faces a 15% tariff. China's at 30%, and as you mentioned, India is at 50%. So if you're thinking that that means higher prices for your or my daily matcha fix, then then you're right. And the thing is, it's not just matcha, because matcha is just a tiny slice of the US Te.

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

So what's a matcha drinker to do? I imagine it's not really a home drink so much. Do people make it at home? Is it really a thing that people have in cafes?

[Ana Helhoski]

I definitely do drink it at home. I think I pay usually like $30 for a tin, but you don't need a lot. It's like about a teaspoon just to like make a cup of it or more if you just needed something a little bit stronger. But I would say that the price varies a lot. So at Starbucks, a grande ice match latte at my shop in Brooklyn costs $6.80, which is a lot higher than some of my colleagues who check their prices. So one colleague in Ann Arbor, Michigan said that she paid $5.25. And then in Seattle, it's about $6. So if you're buying powder for use at home, it'll be cheaper overall. That's a lot. Like, if you're making your own coffee at home, it's going to be a lot cheaper overall. So, yeah, once you're adding tariffs to the mix, it's just. It's just going to be more expensive. Same deal here. The US can't grow tea at the scale that's needed to meet U.S. demand, period. Tea farms in the U.S. supply about 0.02% of what Americans consume. So tariffs are going to be impossible to avoid when it comes to tea. All right, thanks so much for joining me, Rick.

[Rick Vanderkinijf]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Thank you, Anna for coming on and Rick and educating us about Matcha. I am not a coffee drinker.

[Sean Pyles]

Are you Sean I am a helplessly addicted coffee drinker. Although I might have to switch to mushroom coffee if things keep going the way it seems they're going to.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I know the prices are going up.

[Sean Pyles]

Yep. Well, up next, we answer a listener's question about the best way to talk with a romantic partner about money ahead of moving in together. But before we get into that, a reminder listener to send us your money questions. Maybe you're wondering how you can actually cut costs on groceries when everything is getting more expensive, especially coffee and tea. Or you see the holidays around the corner and want to know the best way to save some money? Leave us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373, that's 901-730-Nerd. Or email [e-mail] in a moment.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

This episode's money question Stay with us.

[Ana Helhoski]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from lemonada Media.

[Sean Pyles]

We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from a listener's text message. Here it is. What financial matters slash questions should you consider and discuss with your significant other before you move in with one another?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

This episode, Sean and I are taking on this listener's question all on our own. So let's get into it.

[Sean Pyles]

Elizabeth this is one of my favorite financial topics because there is no right way to do it yet. So many people love to be really prescriptive with like you have to do XYZ thing before you move in with your partner or you like establish your life together and that's just not the case. But there are certain things that you should talk about before you enmesh your lives, financially or otherwise. One thing that I think people should do at the very beginning is just kind of set the tone for these conversations that people have because it can be really easy to spiral into a fight or feel really anxious or not be on the same page about what you're trying to accomplish in these kinds of conversations. Have you ever had similar talks with spouses or partners or, I don't know, maybe even, like, your son about money because you're living together?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I know, right? We talk about money all the time, but the conversation usually goes like, can I have X, Y, Z? I know you got money for it.

[Sean Pyles]

So sometimes a spouse is doing the same thing.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I didn't think about that. It's a good point. No. But I have been married before, and I will admit then I was not very financially savv. And honestly, I had a lot of shame around talking about money. I never saw my parents doing it growing up. It felt like a very sensitive topic. So we actually didn't talk much about money before we moved in together. Those money talks happened maybe a year or more into the marriage, which made things very, very complicated.

[Sean Pyles]

When you had some messes to clean up, maybe.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yes. And when I realized we have very different money values. Right. He was more of a spender, I was more of a saver. We didn't really have any financial goals together. So we did get to a point where it was like, hey, maybe we should have some joint financial goals, so let's open up a joint account and put in a certain amount every month.

[Sean Pyles]

I've had similar experiences. I mean, I lived with Garrett now for eight years or so, and we moved in together basically out of necessity. We were living in San Francisco. We both lost our housing at the same time, and we knew that money was going to be tight, but we didn't fully lay out, like, our budgets and what we could really afford. We just said, we need to live in a place right now, so let's just dive into it. And then over the course of the past several years, we figured out how to manage. Manage our money together. But what I want to talk about is maybe like, the platonic ideal of how you can have these conversations, because I think our listener is doing the right thing by saying, hey, what can you talk about before you move in? So I think there are just these. A number of categories. But again, you do want to have that right mindset at the very beginning of these conversations. So when you're talking with your partner, I think it'd be really helpful to just be curious about what their finances are like and don't judge them for it. Maybe set an intention at the start of the conversation, thinking, okay, my shared intention with you partner, is to have an open and candid conversation about our finances because I care about you and I want us to succeed financially and in our life together as we move into this next step. And if that sounds like super awkward and not like how people talk at all, that's because it kind of is. But some of this is going to be awkward because you're building up this muscle, this new kind of joint muscle in this relationship with talking about money. Because day to day, it's so easy to just ignore this big aspect of our lives when you're having a really fun relationship with someone, you don't want to, like, bog it down with this heavy, tense, loaded stuff like money.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

So it sounds like, Sean, you're saying maybe a first step or one step would be to set the right tone from the onset about what kind of conversations you want to have about money and that you want to have one at all.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah. And I think it can be helpful to time box this conversation, at least at the beginning, say, hey, we're going to go on a little 30 minute walk around the neighborhood. We're going to go grab a cup of coffee, we'll talk about these things there on the street. And that can be nice too, because you're not making direct eye contact with them as you're walking. That way it's less like we are having this intense focus conversation, staring at each other. You're just going down the road together, which is kind of a nice metaphor for your relationship if you think about it. So just focus it and then say, hey, by the time we get home from grabbing this coffee, we'll be done talking about our money for today and maybe we'll revisit another aspect of our finances in a few days or next week. It doesn't have to be everything covered all at once. This huge, massive conversation. You want it to be an ongoing dialogue.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I really love that you said that because I think for some people, especially who think very, maybe chronologically, it's like, well, do I have to have this checkbox of things that I ask all in one conversation and tick them off one at a time? But like you said, it's probably more of an ongoing thing. All right, so, Sean, I think it would be a good idea for us to list out for the listeners some maybe overarching themes that they should talk about during these money conversations. And I'm going go first. I think this may be the hardest thing, but I think you guys, you got to talk about income. I know, I know. You gotta, you gotta Talk about income.

[Sean Pyles]

Of course, one of the things you.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Might want to ask your partner is how much they make compared to you. And it's such an interesting topic for me because I know so many people who still don't know how much their partner makes. They are married in a relationship.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, they're married, and they don't know how much their partner makes.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

They don't know, and maybe they're scared to ask. So, Sean, what do you think about that? Like, how did your conversation with Garrett go about income?

[Sean Pyles]

Well, we just had to be candid about it once we did finally get an apartment to rent. I think we talked about it, actually, after we had signed our lease, but we realized, okay, our incomes at that point were pretty similar, so we were able to just manage what our rent was. But your note around how some people are married and they still haven't talked about it makes me think about how the longer you wait to talk about these things, the harder it can be to talk about them, because it bubbles up and it becomes this source of secrecy. But I think starting with your income is crucial because that is how you can understand how you want to divide your household expenses. A lot of couples want to do 50, 50, because that seems fair, but in fact, it's really not. Say you have one person in the relationship who's making $150,000. The other one's making, like, $75,000. Does the person who's making half as much as the other really need to be covering 50% of the expenses? That's just not right, because then that person who's making less won't be able to save. And the other person who's making more is just like sitting pretty and not spe as their income on all of these expenses. So generally, knowing what you're bringing into the household can make you have an easier proportional way to split up your income. But beyond just what people are bringing in, you want to understand how stable their income is. Maybe you have someone who's working in, like, a creative industry, and they aren't bringing in money on a regular basis, like someone with a 9 to 5 job. That can help you try to plan where your money is going to be going and how you want to cover these expenses.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And I think sometimes the nervousness around talking about income comes in because maybe you're not aligned on what your money values are. So I have heard some people maybe say they're nervous about sharing their income because then maybe their partner will realize that they earn significantly more and have an expectation that they should pay more of the bills, but maybe they don't want to. So I think that boils down to, what are your money values, how do you want to live, and how do you want to divide the finances? So if you're feeling a little nervous, maybe you can preface the conversation with a talk about what your values around money are and your expectations and thinking.

[Sean Pyles]

About gender dynamics here. I'm fortunate enough with my partner where, like, we're both guys and there isn't the expectation that one of us has to be the breadwinner here. But I've heard from a lot of my girlfriends that have said, hey, I'm making more than my male partner. And it makes them really uncomfortable. And they don't want to make their male spouse feel, like, emasculated because they're earning more than them. But that's just the reality of the situation. And I don't know. Have you ever experienced that in your relationships, Elizabeth?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I have. Unfortunately, I have. And it's not a good feeling because you're just living your best life and trying to earn a decent wage and your partner becomes your op, as the youngsters say, or, you know, your opponent in that sense. And you're supposed to be on the same team. So it is uncomfortable. And it sucks that you feel like you have to shrink yourself or hide your income because you don't want your partner to be uncomfortable.

[Sean Pyles]

So what did you do?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Well, we're not together anymore, but maybe.

[Sean Pyles]

Enough said.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Enough said. Yeah. So our values were just not aligned in that way. But I just want to put it out there, women, if you are a high earner and you have worked hard for that high income, it's not something that you should be ashamed of or hiding. So if you have a partner who is making you shrink or making you feel small because you earn more, then I think you might have bigger issues than, you know, moving in together and splitting finances.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah. And moving in together is a time where it can be a make or break for your relationship because you are seeing their values. You're seeing how you can navigate difficult situations. And if someone isn't supporting you, if they're not thrilled that you're bringing in a bunch of money, then maybe you don't want to sign that lease and maybe you want to get out of there. That brings me to another thing I wanted to talk about, which is savings, because we talk a lot about how it's important to have enough money to cover, like, a few months of expenses. This is especially important when you're moving with someone for the very first time, and you actually don't really know if you're going to be staying with them over the long term. So at the bare minimum, each of you should have enough to cover one month's worth of rent. But individually, you should each have your own FU fund so you can just get out of that housing situation if you really need to. Ideally, that would be enough to cover a security deposit and a month's rent at another place. I realize that's a lot of money, but even a few hundred bucks just to cover a hotel room can get you out of a pinch if you need to and just figure out what your next steps are going to be.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yeah, I couldn't emphasize that enough because I know quite a few people in my real life who are stuck in situations they don't want to be in living situations because they don't have enough to move out. And again, I know it's not necessarily easy to save up that FU fund, but I think it can be worthwhile because you just never know what direction the relationship's going to go in.

[Sean Pyles]

At the end of the day, you have to look out for yourself first and foremost.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yep.

[Sean Pyles]

Another thing folks should talk about is debt and how much debt you're bringing into the relationship. This is where things can get really tense because there is a lot of judgment and shame around debt. And a NerdWallet survey conducted by the Harris Poll earlier this year found that 10% of respondents would never date someone with credit card debt at all. But then another 40% said that no amount of credit card debt would be a deal breaker in a relationship. What are your thoughts on debt in relationships and talking about it? Elizabeth?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Ha ha. It's so funny because I was talking to my partner the other day about that very topic. But for me, do I really have a hard thought on it? Well, okay, so it depends on the amount of debt, I'm not gonna lie. And it also depends on the status of our relationship. So if we are going to be getting married, that means we're gonna be working as a team. So your debt is kind of gonna become my debt. And we'd have to work on a strategy to pay it down together. If we're just dating, well, then that's your debt, you know. So what is your plan before we decide to get married, if we do, on paying down the debt. So also, I think an important thing, more important than the debt is do you have a strategy to pay it down? Are you accumulating more debt? What Are your spending habits right? Why do you have this debt? And if it's because maybe you at a time were just impulse spending all the time, I'm not here to shame you. But have you gotten a hold on the impulse spending? Or is that something I'm going to have to worry about in the future?

[Sean Pyles]

I think that's fair because it comes down to the type of debt that the person has, how and why they acquired it. If someone was out of a job and they needed to use a credit card to just bridge the gap, okay, that's understandable. But if they're buying like Labubus every day and they have $100,000 in credit card debt from random crap, that's a little more problematic.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So you summarize it. Thanks. So why. And then what kind of debt is it matters to you?

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, my partner and I both came into the relationship with plenty of student loans, and we've each had credit card debt at various times in our lives because of covering expenses. So it comes down to like, again, what type and how much and why? And then when are you getting out of the debt? Because you don't want to be in debt forever.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Exactly. And obviously debt impacts your cash flow. If we're going to be living together, then how much can you contribute and for how long can you not contribute a lot if that's the case?

[Sean Pyles]

So another thing that folks should talk about before moving in together is credit, because that can actually limit their ability to even qualify for an apartment. So pull those credit reports, talk about it openly, see if they have negative marks on their credit report. Maybe there are negative marks that might be a big red flag for you. Like if they aren't good at paying their bills, what's that going to mean for when you are legally obligated to be paying for this lease and they might just drop out? That should really concern you because again, you're kind of a creditor to your spouse when you are co signing on a lease with them because you are just as on the hook for this debt as they are.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And the more we're talking about this, Sean, I know these conversations can be uncomfortable, but I think it's a great way to really see where your partner's headspace is and also how you can work together as a team. Because nothing is going to make you have to do more teamwork work than finances. Right. So you get to see that side of your partner as well. And now I'm going to move on to something I think is important too, which is logistics of moving into an apartment, because I hate moving into an apartment. Moving expenses are a big expense. You also have the security deposit, which is insane these days. Sometimes you also have to think about furniture. I spent so much on furniture when I was moving in. And if that's going to be the case for you all, how are you guys going to split those costs?

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, it's not just the moving truck. It's also once you're settled in, you're going to be getting more takeout and your budget's going to be kind of out of whack for a little while. Because, again, going back to your income, that being kind of the first thing you really want to establish, it will probably make sense for you to cover it proportionally based on how much you have coming in.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Absolutely. And speaking of which, ongoing living expenses. Yes. All the bills that we hate, the light bill, the water bill, the trash bill, whatever you got. So you guys have to think about how you're going to split those bills. Is one person going to cover it with their income? Are you going to take on each bill also? Are you going to pay it directly or are you going to pull money in account to pay all the utilities? Those are things that y' all want to think about.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah. When you were living with your ex, did you guys have a joint account or how did you manage that? Elizabeth?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Actually, we did not open a joint account until later on in the marriage. And it was really for goals, not bills. So we just kind of split. So he would pay some bills, I would pay some bills. And yeah, there was literally no transparency into how much money each person had. We just would pay the bills that needs to be paid.

[Sean Pyles]

Doesn't sound great.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

No, no, it was not. So if I had a do over, I would not do it that way.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah, I've been in a similar situation before over time, because there's been a lot of trial and error with Garrett and me at this point. I make a little more than Garrett, so I tend to cover things like the groceries each month and then he'll cover like the water bill. And so we do split it up sort of piecemeal based on different bills, but also, again, proportionally dependent upon our income. So there's no one right way to do it. You might want to have a joint account. Garrett and I don't have a joint account. We are thinking about maybe doing one once we finally get married later this year. But at the same time, our money has been flowing just fine for ourselves and we're actually okay keeping things separate for the most part because we do have these ongoing conversations where we know roughly what's happening with our finances.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And as you're saying that, it makes me remember as well what you guys talk about initially in terms of finances may look completely different a year down the line. So your plan doesn't have to be set in stone. You may find that having a joint account works for you or it doesn't, or splitting the utilities a certain way works for you or it. It doesn't, it's okay to reconvene, have another conversation, and try something different that might work better for you all.

[Sean Pyles]

Exactly. And that's why having this muscle, this reflex of just talking about finances when something comes up and having that be an established part of how you communicate with your partner is so crucial, because things are going to change. One person might suddenly be the breadwinner, or the other person might suddenly be out of work. And if you were totally dependent on that one person who's no longer working to cover all of the groceries or be the household financial manager, and they can't do that anymore, you need to know how you can step in and pick up the slack a little bit.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

So picking up the slack makes me think about conflict, how to handle conflict. And I think with money, sometimes conflict does come up. Have you and Garrett not to get all up in y' all business, but has there been like a point of conflict or recurring theme in terms of an argument around money that you guys have?

[Sean Pyles]

I think a little bit in terms of role. I am a person who kind of can't help but give people financial advice. Shocker. So sometimes when I'm talking with Garrett and I'm like, oh, like, how much are you saving in your retirement account? You could actually put a little bit more in there. Based on your income and your age, you might want to put this amount away. And he's like, well, everything's really expensive right now, so that would be great, but I just can't do that at the moment. And similarly, I have a habit of just spending on fabulous things that I love and maybe not checking in with Garrett about whether he is like, totally on board for like this vacation. And so I've had to get better about making sure that I do have that buy in and that if I'm going to try to pay for something and I want his help making sure that he can actually pay for it too.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

It sounds like also what you're saying Sean, or what I'm getting from what you just said is that having goals can be really important, even when it comes to conflict. Because if you can't agree on something, if you have a shared goal, for example, this month I want to go to Disney World, but you say, no, we need to save more. Well, what is our goal? You know, maybe we want us to save X amount this year. So maybe I will have to sacrifice compromise and not have what I want so that we can achieve our goal quicker.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah. So how? I mean, you're a very values and goals oriented person. I think those two things feed into each other. How do you think about this when you talk with the person that you're dating? How have you done this in the past? What have you found to be helpful?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Well, in the past, my ex and I had very different spending habits, like I said. So he was a more live in the moment, you know, buy what I want kind of person. And I was a little bit more like, hey, we should save and have a goal. But honestly, we didn't have any goals together. So that made it a little bit, you know, difficult. And something that I found interesting is that I had so much fear around combining finances too, because we had such different money values. And I think it requires a certain level of trust to combine your finances with someone else. If people are going to move in together, that is a huge thing to think about. Do you want to combine finances? And if you do, what is that going to look like?

[Sean Pyles]

I think unless you're married or getting close to married, I would be a little wary of combining finances too much because you might need to extract yourself from a situation. And if you have joint ownership over an account and things get testy, guess what? They could just deplete all of the money from that account and go. So hold on to your money, be safe with it. And then maybe once you're more financially and like life wise dependent upon each other, think about having that joint account. But don't rush into it. Okay. Well, listener, I hope this helped you and your partner figure out how you can navigate this new chapter in your life together. If other folks have thoughts about how to manage their finances with their spouse as they're moving in together, just living together day to day, let us know.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And that's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we're here to answer your many questions. So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. You can also email [e-mail] we want you to remember to take our listener survey to be entered to win some awesome prizes. And if you want to submit your budget for us to potentially review on a future episode, fill out the form linked in the show description. It would make Sean and I really happy. Right, Sean?

[Sean Pyles]

That's right.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

All right, follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

[Sean Pyles]

Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances. This episode was produced by Tess Viglund and Ana Helen Helhoski. Hilary Georgie helped with editing. Nick Karisimi mixed our audio. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds. Okay, before we let you go, Sean and I want to give another reminder about our giveaway. You could be one of seven winners of some really nice Smart Money merch. One person's going to get a pair of Sony ULT wireless noise canceling headphones. And six winners will get the Bagu Cloud Carry on bag, which I heard Sean has, and it's really nice. All you have to do is fill out our listener survey, which only takes a few minutes. You'll not only be helping us make the Smart Money podcast even better, but you'll also be entered for a chance to win those awesome prizes. Just go to nerdwallet.com podsurvey and complete the survey form by September 15th for a chance to win. You can read the official rules for more details, which again can be [e-mail] PodSurvey thank you and good luck.