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NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Mrs. Dow Jones's New Rules for Getting Rich, Plus How to Combine Finances After Marriage
00:45:53
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- [00:01]
Sean Pyles
Today's episode is sponsored by Spectrum Business.
- [00:04]
Picture this.
- [00:05]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
You're running a business and the Internet
- [00:07]
Sean Pyles
drops during business hours.
- [00:08]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
Your to do list instantly becomes 1 panic, 2 stare at the router like you're negotiating with it and three start offering customers a brief moment of mindfulness while the checkout screen loads. For business owners, being connected isn't a perk. It's how you take payments, talk to clients and keep things moving. Spectrum Business keeps businesses connected seamlessly with fast, reliable Internet and advanced WI fi plus phone, TV and mobile services if you need them.
- [00:35]
Sean Pyles
And Spectrum Business offers 100% US based customer support 24. 7 to help you stay up and running. And that means that you get actual help, not submit a ticket and hope for the best.
- [00:47]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
Our colleague Kerri is a Spectrum customer shout out to our social media team and she told us she chose Spectrum because people online kept recommending it as a reliable and affordable option for Internet and phone service. She told us that she was actually a little hesitant to switch at first because she'd been using a different service for a while, but after a year with Spectrum, she's had a really good experience. Her phone gets strong, reliable service and it automatically connects to Spectrum WI fi everywhere.
- [01:10]
Sean Pyles
Join the millions who rely on Spectrum Business. Visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more one more time that spectrum.com business restrictions apply.
- [01:21]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
Services not available in all areas the following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.
- [01:30]
Sean Pyles
You've heard me talk about Bilt as the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live, and they just leveled up even more. As of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.
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- [02:01]
Sean Pyles
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- [02:16]
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- [02:37]
Sean Pyles
BILT cards are issued by Column NA, Member FDIC, pursuant to license for MasterCard International Incorporated.
- [02:46]
Do you see yourself being rich in the future?
- [02:48]
Elizabeth Ayola
Well, I'm already rich, Sean. I consider myself rich now. But if you mean in terms of the dollar amounts, absolutely. I'm on my way to being rich.
- [02:56]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. One day at a time, right? Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.
- [03:08]
Elizabeth Ayola
And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. On this episode, we're going to be chatting about finding the right financial planner for for your needs and also combining finances before you tie the knot.
- [03:19]
Sean Pyles
But first, what would you do differently today to make yourself rich in the future? That's the premise of the new book Future Rich Person by personal finance influencer Haley Sachs, who you may know better as Mrs. Dow Jones. We're going to talk with Haley about the new rules for building wealth.
- [03:34]
Elizabeth Ayola
Haley Sachs, welcome to Smart Money.
- [03:37]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Thanks for having me.
- [03:38]
Sean Pyles
Great to have you, Haley.
- [03:39]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
I know. I'm so excited to be here. I was telling you before that, like, I. I am one of your nerds. I listen all the time. I love this show.
- [03:46]
Sean Pyles
I feel like I have a parasocial relationship with you because of social media. So the feelings are mutual, I guess.
- [03:51]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Okay, good. We're in just one giant parasocial relationship.
- [03:54]
Sean Pyles
Yes.
- [03:55]
All right, Haley, well, we're here to
- [03:57]
Elizabeth Ayola
talk about your book. And I want to say, first of all, well done for writing the book in the tone of how you speak. As I was reading the book, I felt like I could hear you in my head. So I really enjoyed that.
- [04:09]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Thank you so much.
- [04:10]
Elizabeth Ayola
You're welcome. Let's start with the introduction. So in the introduction of the book, you say that you aren't the typical finance influencer because you come from a relatively wealthy background versus having this rags to riches story. You mentioned your father who worked on Wall street, but you still didn't know much about personal finance despite growing up in that kind of household. So how has coming from money influenced your financial journey?
- [04:33]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Well, I like to say that I'm like if LeBron James's daughter couldn't shoot a free throw, because very correct that I have a father who's worked on Wall street for over 40 years. My mom was on Wall street, too. She out earned my dad when they met and was really successful in business as well. But then, you know, had three kids over three years, which would takes a lot of women out. Now she's a social worker, but yeah, so I come from this like, very business savvy family and it really affected my relationship to money in sort of a complicated way. I. It was never talked about at home. And of course, like, I have the privilege. I always want to acknowledge, like, I don't have student and never had student debt and I had this safety net. And I really don't ever want to pretend otherwise, but I think that what I realized growing up around wealth was without being taught how it works, even if you have it or don't have it, you're. You're going to be helpless. And so despite the fact that I grew up with privilege, I always associated money with like stress and intimidation and sort of counted myself out early that finance was for me and really spent my twenties financially dependent and really avoided. I was surrounded by people who knew about it, but they just never really brought their work home with them and it affected me.
- [05:56]
Sean Pyles
Was there ever an element of you just kind of feeling like you were secure no matter what because of your family's resources, that you maybe didn't have to like scrounge your way up like other people, or were you still kind of fighting through just to cover your bases?
- [06:10]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
So I started my career in comedy. I got like support from them with my first apartment, which I think was like $1200 on the Lower east side. And they paid a portion of that. But I worked as a nanny for this kid named Winthrop, and I was a page at David Letterman and I worked at the front desk of a Pilates studio. So I was always hustling a lot. And it wasn't as though there was like, I wasn't like this trustful, fun baby who was like, yeah, here's our car. Like, go do whatever you want. Like, they kept me on a tight leash. But I think that what it made me feel more than anything was like pretty small and sort of babied. And I talk about this in the book where it's like, I think that that's why I'm obsessed with financial independence. Because the moment that I got my own money, I was like, this is sick. Like, this is so much better. And I think that anyone can relate to that feeling, whether you're, you know, maybe you have a sugar daddy who's paying for you or you're in debt and, you know, you're the government or a credit card company is giving you, like whenever you're spending or using money that is not yours. It comes with these strings attached.
- [07:13]
Elizabeth Ayola
Yeah, yeah.
- [07:14]
Sean Pyles
Having and earning your own money gives you so much more independence and self direction.
- [07:18]
Elizabeth Ayola
It's the best. Yeah, it does. I know that you also detail in the book your journey to your own financial education and learning about money. At any point did you then go to your parents and say, hey, I'm trying to learn more. Can you give me some tips or pointers?
- [07:33]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
It's so funny because obviously I'm Mrs. Sarah Jones now. Like, I should say, I always loved money. Like, I was always the person who was like talking about money. I wanted to know about celebrity money. I understood that money equaled power, but I just didn't understand the logistics of it. But it's like now at home. I'm 34. I have parents that are in their late 60s. And obviously because of what I do, I'm very aware of, like the fact that we need to be estate planning. And I talk about that a lot in the book too, how to have those conversations with your family. I have a whole PDF that you get of like the seven documents that you need in case you die. Like, just things that no one really wants to think about but makes life so much easier. And so I think they probably find me a bit of a nuisance now because I am like always running around, like, what's your password for that? Like, so did we figure out, like, what's going on this part of the will? Like, should you put the house in a trust instead of in my name? Like, you know, like the pendulum has swung the other way?
- [08:28]
Sean Pyles
I can relate. I'm always giving unsolicited advice because I think it's going to help the people around me. And guess what? It often does.
- [08:33]
Elizabeth Ayola
Yes, it does.
- [08:34]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Right?
- [08:35]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. Well, Hayley, early in your book you say that you have to choose your hard. Basically, which difficult thing do you want to go through? Like, would you rather continue to deal with various unpleasant current circumstances or make the changes to buy yourself freedom? But in your experience, I'm wondering why you think it might be so challenging for people to make those changes. Like maybe stop spending more than they earn or leave a job that they hate to just improve their finances long term?
- [09:01]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Why I talk about choosing your hard is because our brains are really not wired for long term satisfaction. And when the reward is years away, as it is with money, it's a lot harder to motivate yourself towards that. But really, everything that you do with your finances is setting yourself up in your future. And so you have to. If you want to be good with money, you need to figure out a way around that. But I think that a reason that a lot of people avoid making those changes is because of something that I call in the book, Learn Financial Helplessness, which I think we see a lot with Gen Z and Millennials. And it sort of is like this idea of financial nihilism. Like, we all have that friend, of course, who's like, you know, we're just on a floating rock and, like, you know, the world is burning and, like, you know, we should just, like, live out loud today because, like, who cares about tomorrow? Like, no one's going to be here. And I think people use that a lot as an excuse with their finances. And the narrative is so intense, especially in the media, but also, like, we're all living it and feeling it, right? Like, intense student loan crisis houses, which is like the classic American dream. Owning a house, like, completely. We've all been priced out of it. Now we have, like, the whole AI threat that they're going to take all of our jobs. Like, every day there's something new that feels like it's coming for us. That means that, like, we're just completely screwed. And I think that it's really easy and almost like sort of punk rock. It feels like, in a way to be like, yeah, like, we're screwed. Let's just not care about this. But the best form of resistance is to still put energy towards being a future rich person and choosing your hard. Because the hard of staying broke, despite it being familiar and familiar, always winning is so much harder than just actually taking the steps that I outline in the book to improve your financial situation and create that security in the future?
- [11:01]
Sean Pyles
And also, wouldn't you rather hedge your bets in case the world doesn't explode in a few years and have a retirement fund?
- [11:07]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Oh, my gosh. I know. And I hear that all the time. I'm like, if you invest $200 a month at an 8% return, then you're going to have, you know, $700,000. If you start at, you know, whatever, I'll do the math.
- [11:19]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, yeah.
- [11:20]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
And people are always like, but $700,000 when I'm 65 is not going to mean anything. And I'm like, wouldn't you rather still have $700,000 even if the spending power of that is $400,000, than having zero?
- [11:35]
Sean Pyles
Exactly.
- [11:36]
Elizabeth Ayola
And you know, Hailey, this makes me think about the importance of a mindset shift, which is something that you talk about in chapter three, right? So talk to us about this mindset shift that you outlined in this chapter. And also I want to know if you've seen people implement it and it be successful.
- [11:50]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
You can read any book about, like, here's how to do X, Y or Z. But you have to figure out your why and what's holding you back first before you do anything or nothing that I teach you is actually going to stick. And so I consciously started the book with this trip to Ibiza because it was important for me to take my reader on a journey to understand where are their financial biases and what are the factors that are contributing to them having not taken control of their finances up until this point. It's this amazing framework that I've used for years with my audience. I used to have courses and we would use it whenever I work with people, one on one, I use it. And it's fun because of course, it's called Ibiza, which I feel like is sort of a pillar. Mrs. Dow Jones, like, just trying it make things more fun and like, feel glamorous. Like, we're not like, working on our financial mindsets. We're going to Ibiza. Like, how fun is that? But it really does work especially, and it's really important because your financial relationship is sort of ingrained by the time that you're seven years old. So you have to do a little bit of self work if you want to put yourself in the position for the rules of building wealth to stick.
- [13:03]
Elizabeth Ayola
Haley. So we know this is an acronym. Can you break down briefly what that acronym stands for?
- [13:08]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Yes. So Ibiza stands for identify, blame, interrupt, judge, and act. And basically I walk you through in the book the steps you have to take for each of those. But by the time that you're done with that chapter, you'll have a really good understanding of how you view money, what you want to shift about how you view money, what is holding you back. And it also gives you all about actionable advice. So really actionable advice in the moment every day for you to then be improving your financial relationship. And then, of course, ACT is then the rest of the book, because I give you all of the actual actions. But, you know, if we try to change behavior without changing belief, it never sticks.
- [13:50]
Sean Pyles
Hayley, I'd love to hear an example of how you've implemented the Ibiza framework in your own life and what difference has made for you.
- [13:56]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
This has made such a big difference for me. It let me completely break down what I was holding onto from my childhood, like, what I realized basically, because part of the work in Ibiza is to figure out your first money memory. You go back in time and they seem so, like, trivial now. But I was maybe around, like, seven or eight, and I really wanted to get a snack at school, but I didn't want to ask anyone for the money. And I didn't know, like, how to, like, make money or get money on my own. And so I just, like, took some dollars from. We have this little cup above the laundry machine, like a plastic container. And it was sort of like a sh. Shameful thing that I would, you know, grab them for the snacks. But I realized in looking back and doing the framework of Ibiza, like, oh, that explains why I was looking outside of myself always for money versus counting on myself to actually build financial independence, you know, on my own. I didn't. Was not empowered at all to, you know, I didn't have an allowance. I didn't really understand, like, how things worked. And so I was sort of just, like, taking things secretly and, like, it was never really acknowledged or talked about. And so it created the shame spiral. And that was something that I really had to work through.
- [15:07]
Elizabeth Ayola
All right, let's move on to the
- [15:09]
Sean Pyles
chapter Secure the Damn Bag.
- [15:11]
Elizabeth Ayola
Love, love, love. The title of this chapter here. You make a good point about it being more important to increase earning potential versus chasing pennies. And I resonate with this so much because I remember getting to a crossroads where I was earning maybe 40k and then getting the rest of my paycheck after all the deductions and being like, this is just not enough money. There's nowhere for me to cut and I need to earn more. But this concept of, like, earning more money can feel overwhelming for some people, especially when they start exploring side hustles and they see maybe instacart after driving around for hours, they only made $5. My question is, what's a good place for people to start in terms of increasing their income?
- [15:49]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
First of all, I think that we focus so much, especially for women, on cutting back versus earning more. Like, you have to coupon. You have to, you know, skip the latte, skip the avocado toast. But there really is so much to be said for just increasing your earning potential and asking for more money and finding yourself jobs where you can be paid. Because a lot of what happens is we get stuck in sunk cost policy where we've been at a job for a long time. So we think, oh, there's going to be, like, this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow one day. But really we're not at a company that's ever really going to be able to increase our salaries like 10, 15% every two years. What you're talking about with side hustling is so important. And I talk about this in the book because it's like, okay, say you're a nurse who's working a hundred hours a week at a hospital and you're not making enough money. You feel at the end of the month, every month, okay, it's hard for me to make ends meet. I really need to be earning more. I feel like so much of the content online just tells you to like, yeah, side hustle, resell everything in your house, like get a job, like doing doordash, like start an Etsy store, whatever it is. But it's like, I'm sorry, if you're working a hundred hours a week, you're going to be so burnt out if you add something more onto your plate. It makes no sense. And so a lot of the Secure the Damn Back chapter is about taking a step back with my help, and examining what are changes that we can make that will get you closer to your goal without you sacrificing your quality of life so much. So, you know, say you work at a hospital, maybe then you become a private nurse and you could increase your earnings that way. I also talk a lot about in this chapter increasing your human capital, which I feel like is underrated, but it really is your biggest asset in the workplace. And so, you know, thinking about what skills can I build to make me more valuable, like either at my current job or somewhere else? I think that it's so important to think through how we can make more money versus always just thinking about cutting back. And that there, if you're creative and thoughtful, which most people never really take the time to think through, that there are so many routes to a bigger paycheck.
- [18:05]
Sean Pyles
Yes. Hayley, you have such great advice throughout this book, and I really like the variety of types of financial advice that you give. But I'm wondering if you could leave our listeners with just one thing to do, one piece of actionable advice. What would that be?
- [18:19]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
If you're not having a money date once a month, I would say that's like such a great place to start. It's something that really shifted my financial life for me too. And I've been doing it for over eight years. I do it religiously once a month. I always say money is a relationship. If you are in a relationship and you never go on dates, it would be a pretty bad relationship. So you need to take time with it, but it's basically the set time where you can review your spending, review your income. It gives you a moment to look through. Okay, are there subscriptions that I need to cancel? Like, any financial tasks that you need to do can just get piled into that money date, which I think also helps with the anxiety and the fear around taking control of your finances because you can just bucket them away towards them and do it. Then it's okay to never want to do your money date, but you have to do it anyways. Like I said, I've done it for eight years. I still, I don't think it's the sort of thing where it's like a habit. Oh, you do it for 21 days and then suddenly you're a new person. Like, you still might always have resistance towards it, but do it anyways because that's really what's going to push you over the edge. Because once you control your money, you control your life.
- [19:23]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. And that's how you enact those changes that get you to where you want to be to make those tough decisions, Right?
- [19:28]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Absolutely.
- [19:29]
Sean Pyles
Would you say that you've achieved your
- [19:30]
Elizabeth Ayola
rich life before we let you go, Hayley?
- [19:32]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
I think I have. In terms of finances, like I say in the book, like, yes, I came from money, but I'm a self made millionaire too. Let me have this. And so in that way, I'm so excited about like the money that I have compounding in the market. And I'm obsessed with growing wealth through investing. But I will say that something that I really am trying to achieve more of is balance, which I think is hard when you're in your peak earning years, especially when you have hit your stride. And so, so that's something that I'm working towards. But, and that my rich life, I don't think is just like a number in the bank account. It really, like, it really is being able to spend time with my family and friends, work on my health, my, you know, have hobbies, all of that. And so I wonder if we simply would like to retire soon.
- [20:19]
Elizabeth Ayola
You're part of the fire movement in Hailey. Yes, exactly.
- [20:22]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
No, but I like cash flow too much, so we'll see where it lands me. But I'm having fun for now.
- [20:27]
Sean Pyles
Great. Well, Haley Sacks, Mrs. Dow Jones, congratulations on your new book, Future Rich Person. It was great to talk with.
- [20:33]
Elizabeth Ayola
Thank you so much. In a moment, we're going to talk about how to find a financial planner and also what to do when you're combining finances with your partner.
- [20:42]
Sean Pyles
But first listener, take a moment and think about where you need some help with your money.
- [20:47]
Elizabeth Ayola
Maybe you and your partner have different financial goals and you're not sure how to get on the same page. Or lifestyle creep has gotten out of control and you need help getting your money back on track. Whatever your money question is, we nerds are here to help you. We want you to leave us a voicemail or text us on the NERD hotline at 901-730-6373. One more time. That's 901-730-N E R D. You can
- [21:12]
Sean Pyles
also email us@podcastnerdballet.com or leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube. And you can also subscribe to our video episodes on YouTube too, while you're there. Okay, well, let's get to this episode's Money Question segment. That's up next. Stay with us.
- [21:31]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
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Sean Pyles
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Elizabeth Ayola
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Kerri / Sponsor Voice
Quint.com smartmoney the following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by Nerdwall's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.
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Sean Pyles
You've heard me talk about Bilt as the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live, and they just leveled up even more. As of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.
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Sean Pyles
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- [24:22]
Sean Pyles
BILT cards are issued by column NA member FDIC pursuant to license for MasterCard International Incorporated.
- [24:31]
We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from Annabella, who left us a comment on Spotify. Hi, I love listening to your podcast. Thank you Annabella. I'm getting married this year and I want to hire a financial advisor for my partner and I as we think about how to best combine finances. Can you do a podcast on how to find a good financial advisor to hire? Thanks Annabella.
- [24:55]
Elizabeth Ayola
Today Sean and I are taking on your question Annabella ourselves. And by the way, I love your name. It's so pretty.
- [25:02]
Sean Pyles
Beautiful name. Yeah, it's like a Disney princess, right? Well, Annabella really just asked about how to find a good advisor, but I think there are two main parts to their question that I want to focus on. It's really how to find the advisor like they said and then also how best to combine finances. So we can start with finding a good advisor.
- [25:20]
Elizabeth Ayola
And can I just add how well suited are you, Sean, to take on this question?
- [25:24]
Sean Pyles
I know, right?
- [25:25]
Elizabeth Ayola
You are an advisor and also you are a newly married person who I'M assuming has done some kind of financial combination?
- [25:32]
Sean Pyles
Yes and no. I mean, yes, I am an advisor in case people didn't know, I'm a cfb. But also I just got married in the fall. So yeah, extremely well suited to answer this question and I'm excited to talk about it. And one thing that really gets me going in the financial planning space is what it means to be a financial advisor. Something people get wrong is thinking that they can just hire anyone who calls themselves a financial advisor and they'll get good advice. The truth is that the term financial advisor is not actually regulated. Anyone can call themselves a financial advisor and just go about giving out information and trying to get your money, but that can be really, really risky.
- [26:10]
Elizabeth Ayola
It can be. And that's exactly why you, Sean, are going to give us some really strong tips on how to find a good advisor. One of the things I can think of is, is looking for a credential. So talk to us about that.
- [26:22]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, so credentials are super important. The certified financial planner or CFP credential is the gold standard in financial planning and financial advising. And to become a cfp, that means that someone has gone through rigorous education, they have passed the most difficult exam that I've ever taken in my life. And they are also really importantly, perhaps most importantly, held to a fiduciary standard. And that means that this planner is putting your interest before their own. Any Joe Schmo on social media who calls themselves a financial expert isn't held to that same standard. So you just don't know what their interests are really besides, you know, self profiting.
- [27:03]
Elizabeth Ayola
Let's talk about fees, Sean and I like this one because some people have this myth that financial advisors can be extremely expensive or inaccessible.
- [27:12]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, they may not be at all. And there are a few different fee structures to be aware of. Advisors specifically CFPs are generally fee only. That's how I practice where I get paid on a per plan basis or by the hour. There's also fee based where you might be generally charging based on the hour or plan, but you can also get a commission from some financial products that you offer to people. And a lot of folks might be wary of fee based because they could perceive a conflict of interest if you're recommending a certain product over another. Although because we have this fiduciary standard for CFPs, you have to disclose lose any conflicts of interest. But that's just something to be aware of with fee based versus fee only. And then the other primary fee structure is assets under management. And this is typically where you move your assets over under the planner's management and they take a percentage, maybe 1% of your total amount of assets. That can be more expensive, but you also tend to get more hands on service. And because this planner is managing all of your assets, a lot of people just expect and are able to call up their planner anytime and get answers to their financial questions. So it really depends on what you want. One isn't necessarily better than the other. I prefer fee only just because it's cleaner for me and I just feel like it's truer to my fiduciary standard.
- [28:34]
Elizabeth Ayola
Something else that I love about choosing a financial advisor that I've learned over the years is that every financial advisor specializes in something different. Sometimes you could have one that specializes in, I don't know, special needs or neurodivergent people. Or are there ones who specialize in couples? Sean?
- [28:53]
Sean Pyles
There probably are honestly people who worked with a lot of couples. I think well versed planners have experience working with people who have gotten married, stayed married, gotten divorced, maybe gotten remarried. Because when you are working with a client over many years, you see them through all these different life phases. But you are right that a lot of planners will have a sort of niche specialty. Mine tends to be the LGBTQ queer community in the Oregon area because that's just who I care to serve and who I know best. So you want to find someone who can speak to your life experience and also has hopefully worked with some clients before. So there. This isn't their first rodeo.
- [29:30]
Elizabeth Ayola
All right, now, hiring a financial advisor, what are the steps that people need to take here? Do they look in a directory? Do they ask their friend? Do they ask their bank?
- [29:39]
Sean Pyles
Maybe all of the above. I think this is a key part of Annabella's question is really, how do you find an advisor? Word of mouth is a great resource. I've had referrals from friends who I've helped before who've told their friends about me. And then their friend reaches out to me. I met someone at a party the other week who we got to talking about how expensive of a watch they wanted to buy. And I was like, well, as a financial planner, I don't know if you want to spend all your money on that. And then they said, wait, you're a planner, let's get to chatting. So that led to a prospect. So you never know when you'll meet someone who could help you with your finances. And then just a plain old Internet search outside of XY Planning Network can help you Too. Just saying. Financial planners in my area or financial planners for ex specialty. Just do your research and try to find a few different areas where you can locate planners.
- [30:24]
Elizabeth Ayola
One thing that comes to mind is that not every planner is going to be a great fit. Shawn. I think of it like when you're looking for a therapist or when you're looking for primary care doctor, you want to consider several things before you choose a financial advisor. So what are some things that people should consider in the vetting process?
- [30:42]
Sean Pyles
This. Yeah. People should not rush into going with the first planner they meet unless they're really confident that it's a right fit. I recommend that people meet with a few different advisors before choosing the one that they want to work with. Because like you said, Elizabeth, this is often an intimate, ongoing relationship. Like when you would have with a therapist or a primary care physician. You want to feel like you can talk with this person about anything because generally you're talking about things with a financial planner that you haven't talked about with anyone else before. And you want to trust them. You want to feel like you can communicate openly without judgment. And also you want to know that they have the knowledge base to really work through these thorny issues with you. You want to think about their personality and their communication style and also their financial values. I had to fire a financial planner one time because I realized that we had really misaligned financial values.
- [31:30]
Wow. Do you want to share any details on that?
- [31:33]
Yeah. It wasn't anything too wild, but for me, this was a clear, okay, we're not going to be a match match. This was, gosh, almost six years ago now. And NerdWallet has a wonderful workplace benefit where we can get connected to financial planners and they just match you with one kind of randomly through this service. So I got paired with a guy, we had a good conversation. I talked about how I had just had a big, like, cash outflow because I had bought my car. And he recommended that I could possibly take out a 401k loan to give myself some more liquid cash. And I am Very anti 401k loan unless you are in an emergency. Yeah. And for me, I had a temporary cash crunch where I didn't have as much as I like to have, but I knew that in a few months I'd be able to save and build back up my savings. So to be recommended to take out a 401k loan for that just seemed like a bad, bad idea. So for some people that would be an okay idea, but for me, it's not. And so I said, let me work with someone else.
- [32:33]
Elizabeth Ayola
Yeah, good on you for identifying that and being able to see that you guys weren't aligned and then looking for someone who was. So I assume who you're working with now is a better fit.
- [32:42]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, 100%. And, and that also reminds me that people may well have a benefit like we have at NerdWallet, to work with financial advisors. See if you have someone there, because that might be a free route to getting financial planning.
- [32:54]
Elizabeth Ayola
Let's look at the when and now. Sean, I hear people all the time say, for example, I don't need a therapist, or a therapist is not for me. Does everybody need a financial advisor or is it for a specific group of people? When should you work with one?
- [33:08]
Sean Pyles
The therapy point is so interesting because a lot of times people want to work with a therapist when they're in some kind of crisis to help them resolve what's going on in their life. When in fact, the best time to work with a therapist is when things are kind of going okay. So you can have a baseline, have a relationship, and then when something does happen, you are working with someone who already knows your light and can help you process it. It very much the same with financial planners. You want to work with someone when your finances are doing okay, but you want some extra help. And there are some key times where you might want to consider working with one. Like with Annabella's situation. They're about to get married. That's a big life change. Anytime you're going through a significant change, whether it's maybe getting a new job or moving to a new area, or marriage or divorce or having a kid, a time when your finances are really going to change, it's helpful to have someone evaluate your circumstances and help you map out that financial plan, because that's also the key element of working with a certified financial planner is they give you a comprehensive financial plan to help you get to where you want to go with your money.
- [34:03]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
So, Elizabeth, I'd like to hear about
- [34:05]
Sean Pyles
a time when maybe you decided to work with a financial planner or not based on your life circumstances.
- [34:10]
Elizabeth Ayola
Like you. Sean, because I Also work at NerdWallet, I have utilized the free financial advisor benefit that we get, and it has been tremendously helpful. Before then, I didn't consider working with a financial advisor because I didn't actually know that you didn't have to work with one. That takes a percentage of your portfolio. But as I started working at NerdWallet and increasing my knowledge base, I Realized, hey, there are fee only planners. I have been matched with about two different advisors. Now, the first one, lucky for me, happened to be a great match. She was a woman, and she was very friendly and relatable, and I enjoyed working with her. But then she just disappeared. So then I was given a guy
- [34:49]
Sean Pyles
to work with and he was okay.
- [34:51]
Elizabeth Ayola
But you know what, as I think about it, Sean, I only had one meeting with him, and to be honest, I didn't feel a very deep connection. But I guess I saw it as well, he's just gonna give me financial advice, and I didn't think any much further than that. So. But those are my only two experiences.
- [35:04]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, that can be. The downside of working with a planner that comes from one of these workplace benefit services is that they have a likely very large pool of your colleagues that they're working with. And unless you make a point to say, hey, I want a full comprehensive financial plan. I want you to dig into everything. They're going to give you maybe a more cursory analysis of your finances because they frankly just have to move on to the next client.
- [35:28]
Yes, exactly.
- [35:29]
Elizabeth Ayola
And then I think also the times that I have worked with a financial advisor is like he said, maybe when I'm going through transitionary periods or just when I need to know that I'm on track and I kind of need that reassurance that I'm doing the right thing. Those are the two situations where I've used one.
- [35:46]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. And a key question everyone should answer before they work with a financial planner is why now is the right time to work with a financial planner or an advisor? Because a lot of times folks sign up to meet with someone and they don't understand that it actually takes work on both sides to get this going. You have to dig through all of your financial information and share it with the planner. You have to have some meetings and really hash things out, like going to therapy. And if you aren't committed to that journey with someone, then it might not be the right time for you. But get committed to your why, and then you can understand whether this is a good time to do it or not.
- [36:19]
Elizabeth Ayola
Let's jump into the second part of Annabella's question, which I find to be a great topic to talk about, which is combining finances when you are married.
- [36:31]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. So, Elizabeth, you have been married in the past. You've had many a relationship where you've combined finances or not. Where do you think people should start with this?
- [36:42]
Elizabeth Ayola
A chat. I love. I love a good chat. And I Love some deep, reflective questions. So maybe I do think you need to go deep because I think combining finances is a deep thing. So I think the good place to start is with a conversation, an honest and open one, if you haven't had one already, about your money values. You want to talk about things maybe you're afraid of. I know that I hear often from women that they're afraid of maybe kind of losing their financial empowerment if they combine finances with their partner. You want to talk about financial boundaries, your strengths and your weaknesses. Because my assumption is if you're combining finances, you want to work together as a team and one person may be better at things than the other person. This can also be a good time to outline things like what your debt is, what you know you have in your retirement accounts, how much you have in savings, all those kind of good and deep and sometimes uncomfortable topics.
- [37:30]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, if you haven't laid everything out from like your credit score to how much debt you carry to maybe your worst financial mistake before you get married, is really a good time to do that. And email. You mentioned money values. We talk about that a lot. I think people can have a hard time understanding what their values are in a concrete way. What do you think is a good maybe question to ask or exercise to go through to help people understand what their values are and what their partners might be too?
- [37:55]
Elizabeth Ayola
Oh, that's such a good one. Google is such a great resource and I hate to be simplistic, but it's true. There are so many different kind of questions that you can find online that will help you to explore your money values. But I think a good one that one could ask is like, what was your earliest memory of money? You know, what was maybe the most traumatic experience or memory that you have with money? When do you feel most fearful about money? How do you feel after you make a money mistake? You can, you know, discover with that question. Do you have shame, a lot of shame that you carry around making financial mistakes, or do you show yourself grace? So those are some questions people can ask.
- [38:28]
Sean Pyles
And there are a lot of negative emotions tied up with money. It's important too to talk about why. What makes you feel good around money? Like, what is maybe the best feeling that you get when you spend money? Or what are you proudest of with what you've done with your finances? That can help you uncover your values too.
- [38:45]
Elizabeth Ayola
Yeah, and also one that comes to mind as well is how do you want money to make you feel right? So is it that you want money like what personal Value is it tied to? Do you want money so that you can feel free, so that you can feel comfortable, so that you can help others? You know, there are different ways kind of to frame that that'll help you see how money ties to your own personal values.
- [39:04]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. Okay, I want to turn now to checking accounts. Combining checking accounts or not, this is a really common topic that people have to broach with someone that they're getting married to or maybe even just moving in with. And you asked earlier whether Garrett and I, my husband and I, have combined our finances in any meaningful way since we got married. And the answer is actually no. We haven't really changed anything. We still have fully separate accounts. I' considered maybe getting a joint account for things like yard projects or vacations that we want to do together. We just haven't done it yet. But for a lot of folks, it really works out well to have some kind of joint account where you're each putting in maybe a proportional amount of your paychecks based on who's making what amount, and then you retain separate accounts. That last part is really important for financial freedom and independence and also just so you can have some privacy in relationships. You know, say you want to get your partner a gift. You don't want want them seeing that you spent money on that. Or maybe you just want to buy something and it's okay that your partner doesn't know about it necessarily. I'm not supporting financial infidelity here or anything, but, you know, I think people maybe undervalue the importance of privacy in all relationships.
- [40:19]
Elizabeth Ayola
I would love, love, love to second that. Just because you're becoming one, as some people like to say it, or merging your finances, it doesn't mean that you lose your individualism. Sean, I want you to know that you're not alone in terms of not having any joint accounts, because actually, fewer married people are having joint financial accounts these days. Want to know how I know?
- [40:39]
Sean Pyles
How do you know?
- [40:41]
Elizabeth Ayola
I found a data point. It came from the Census Bureau's Survey of Income and Program Participation, and it found that in 2023, 77% of married couples who owned any kind of asset at a financial institution held at least one type of account jointly with their spouse. But guess what? That is down from 85% in 1996. So fewer people are getting joint accounts,
- [41:06]
Sean Pyles
and it's still, you know, over three quarters of couples. It's a lot, but down from 85%. That's a significant change. And I wonder if that is related to the push of people wanting to retain their financial independence just in case things go sideways. I think we're seeing now a lot of the millennials who were growing up, who maybe had divorced parents, myself included, really find value and importance in retaining our own flexibility and independence.
- [41:34]
Elizabeth Ayola
That would be my guess also. And it's just a reminder that, again, there isn't one way to do finances in marriage. Right? You can choose to combine, you can choose to keep them separate, and that doesn't have to impact your intimacy or love.
- [41:47]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, well, one area it is helpful to connect with your partner on a pretty deep level is actually budgeting. You want to know what your household income and spending looks like so that you can work toward those longer term financial goals. There are some really helpful apps that can make this easier for you. One is Monarch money that people really enjoy for joint budgeting. And Honeydew is another that caters to couples as well. And Honeydew is another that caters to couples. That's Honey. D U E like a bill is due.
- [42:18]
Elizabeth Ayola
Allocating financial responsibilities is something I'm also thinking about that can be helpful for Anabella, whether you choose to combine your finances or not. Now, Sean, I want to ask you, since at the moment you and your partner do not have any joint accounts, how do you allocate financial responsibility? Do you just say, hey, you're going to pay the light bill and I'm going to pay for groceries and you pay that out of your respective accounts?
- [42:42]
Sean Pyles
Well, our situation is a little funky with Garrett and me because we each have our own properties. So with this place here, we live at Garrett's property in Portland. He covers all utilities, and then, you know, I earn a little more, so I cover groceries. And it just tends to shake out for us in a way that feels really equitable. But on that end, I also, I cover all the related expenses to my own own property, too. So we try to find that balance that is fair for each of us based on our income.
- [43:13]
Elizabeth Ayola
If I were to get remarried, I would like to do something similar, but I think I would actually be for a joint account for household expenses, and we could each maybe take a part out of our paycheck and then everyone else can spend their money on what they want to spend their money on because it's none of my business.
- [43:28]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, I tend to be the one who spends my money a little bit more loosely. Like we have this patio furniture we've had for years now, and the cushions are getting pretty ratty, so. So I just bought some new cushions for us. It came out of my household expenses fund. It was a couple hundred dollars, and I was happy to pay for that because I had the money set aside. So that's just one area where I. Because I make a little more. I tend to be more flexible and open to just buying random things for the house.
- [43:55]
Elizabeth Ayola
Well, just for the record, Shawn, I would love to have a partner like you, because you have 12 different accounts and 12 different buckets, and I know that we'll be fine.
- [44:02]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
So.
- [44:03]
Sean Pyles
Absolutely. That's the goal, at least. Yeah. But it can be helpful to have one person who's maybe more of the ringleader around the finances. And so for me, that's. That's kind of my role, as you might expect, being a CFP and a host of a finance podcast. So this past year, we filed our taxes jointly for the first time, and that was my responsibility. I. I held myself up in the office. I think I told you about this. I locked myself away for, like, two hours and just did everything. And I kept Garret posted on how things were looking, and, you know, if there were any trouble spots, I ran them by. But beyond that, like, I'm happy to take on that annoying task because I have the information to do it.
- [44:43]
Elizabeth Ayola
Love what you said about keeping Garrett posted. And I just want to reinforce the importance of knowing what's going on in your finances. No matter which kind of approach that you guys take, if one person is predominantly managing, it's still so important for the other partner to know what's going on, know where the financial accounts are, what the passwords are, how much money is in these accounts. Because I just hate hearing scenarios where one person is kind of locked out of the finances or oblivious to what's going on financially. And heavens forbid a partner passes away or, you know, they're being financially abused. You know, they have no access to the resources within the relationship.
- [45:17]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. That is such a crucial point, especially when you're working with a financial advisor. Yes. One person might be the one coordinating the meetings and gathering the documents. Both parties need to be equally invested in knowing what's going on, because to your point, we see a lot of the times where, in a heterosexual couple, the man. Men tend to die younger. Right. And the wife may not know what's going on with their finances at all. And sometimes that leads to a great surprise because you didn't realize that your husband had a bunch of money saved. Sometimes it's the exact opposite, and it can be really devastating. Everyone needs to know what's happening with your finances. Despite what traditional Gender roles may have dictated around who's leading the financial conversations in the household.
- [45:58]
Elizabeth Ayola
Let's talk about life insurance. Now that's an important one. How are you and Garrett approaching life insurance now that you are married?
- [46:05]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, I upped mine for sure, just because I want to make sure that if something happens to me, and vice versa, that we would get enough money coming in from life insurance to cover things like our mortgages. So now that Annabella and their partner are going to be getting married, you want to make sure that you would have enough money to cover any kind of debt and that the loss of one person, and I mean, it's going to be devastating, obviously, but try to mitigate the financial burden of it. And that's why life insurance is an extra important thing to look at when you're getting married.
- [46:38]
Elizabeth Ayola
And then with the life insurance policy, it's so important that you put your partner, if that's what you desire, as a beneficiary. And that extends to all financial accounts again, that you would like them to potentially inherit if in the worst case scenario, you pass away.
- [46:51]
Sean Pyles
Yeah. Updating beneficiary designations is a really simple financial task. You can log into to your checking account, your bank account to do that. With life insurance, it's extra important to review that, especially if you've been married before, because there are so many stories of the ex wife getting the money from a life insurance policy and the person who passed away wouldn't have wanted that to happen, but they just forgot to update the beneficiary designation.
- [47:15]
Elizabeth Ayola
And then also the current partner or family is left out to dry. And now they don't have the funds that they would need during their grieving period.
- [47:23]
Sean Pyles
And this is also something that a good financial planner will be able to flag immediately and take care it for you.
- [47:29]
Elizabeth Ayola
Anabella, I hope that we have answered your question sufficiently. Hopefully when you finally do find a financial advisor, you guys can sit down and go through the many subjects that we've had. It's usually not one conversation, it's several conversations to be had. And also, you all are just learning about yourselves financially as a married couple. And you can always change your strategy and approach as you go along to what benefits you and what fits you.
- [47:53]
Sean Pyles
Yeah, what Elizabeth said. And also, congratulations on getting married. Please keep us posted on how this goes. Those for you.
- [47:58]
Elizabeth Ayola
And if you're feeling nice, you can send us some wedding pics. We'd love to.
- [48:00]
Sean Pyles
We would love that. Yes. Okay. All right. Well, that's all we have for this episode. Remember, Listener that our job is to answer your money questions, so please send them our way. You can hit us up on the Nerd hotline by texting us or calling us at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. You can also email us@podcasterdwallet.com or leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube
- [48:24]
Elizabeth Ayola
and you can also follow us or subscribe. What do they say? Like and subscribe on YouTube. Join us next time to hear about how to save for retirement when you are self employed. In the meantime, follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app that includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.
- [48:41]
Sean Pyles
And here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purpose and may not apply to your specific circumstances.
- [48:52]
Elizabeth Ayola
This episode was produced by Tess Viglund. Hilary Georgie helped with editing. Eve Krogman helms our audio and video production and a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.
- [49:02]
Sean Pyles
And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.
- [49:10]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
Hey Smart Money listeners. We have a brand new email newsletter and it's completely worth signing up for, especially since it's free.
- [49:17]
Sean Pyles
Every issue has clips from recent episodes,
- [49:20]
Elizabeth Ayola
links to stories you might have missed,
- [49:22]
Sean Pyles
and also behind the scenes commentary from me, Sean and our producer.
- [49:27]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
Some of it is stuff that doesn't make it into the episodes, the context, the moments, the takes we didn't plan on sharing.
- [49:33]
Sean Pyles
You can think of it as the group chat for Smart Money fans. I'm going to be sharing inside details about parenting and money. Yes, I'll be sharing all the juicy
- [49:42]
Kerri / Sponsor Voice
stuff and I'll have loads of tips about what I'm doing in my garden. So if you want to putz around your garden like I I do, sign up for the newsletter. And also, you know, we have money, tips and all that kind of stuff. So head to NerdWallet.com podcast to sign up. Again, it's free.
- [49:56]
Sean Pyles
That's NerdWallet.com podcast. We'll see you in your inbox.