Rising Insurance Costs and Choosing the Best Savings Account for Your Money

Summary

NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast: Rising Insurance Costs and Choosing the Best Savings Account for Your Money

Episode Release Date: January 27, 2025
Hosts: Sean Pyles, CFP®, Sara Rathner
Guest Experts: Kaitlyn Constantine (Home Insurance Expert), Margaret Burnett (Savings Expert)

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1. Rising Insurance Costs Amid Climate Disasters

The episode kicks off with hosts Sean Pyles and Sara Rathner addressing the escalating costs of home insurance, a trend exacerbated by the increasing frequency and severity of climate-related disasters. Sean emphasizes the fundamental purpose of insurance: “Insurance is designed to protect you from financial ruin when unlikely but potentially catastrophic events occur.” [00:00]. However, Sara quickly points out the concerning shift: “But what happens when those potentially catastrophic events become more and more likely to happen?” [00:08].

2. Insurance Market Changes in California

The discussion delves into the specific challenges faced in California, particularly in the wake of devastating wildfires around Los Angeles. Kaitlyn Constantine, who oversees home insurance coverage at NerdWallet, provides insight into how major insurers like Allstate, State Farm, and Farmers are retreating from high-risk areas due to unsustainable losses. Kaitlyn explains, “Climate related disasters are becoming more common, more extreme, and more costly.” [02:09]. She details how State Farm recently dropped around 1,600 policies in Pacific Palisades alone [02:50], highlighting the financial strain on insurers.

3. Nationwide Impact on Home Insurance

The conversation broadens to a national perspective, acknowledging that California is not alone in facing skyrocketing insurance premiums. Kaitlyn informs listeners that states such as Florida, Louisiana, New England, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and the Carolinas are also grappling with similar issues [04:07]. A Senate Budget Committee report warns of potential declines in property values if these insurance trends persist [04:38].

4. Personal Insights from North Carolina

Kaitlyn shares her personal experience from Asheville, North Carolina, where Hurricane Helene caused significant destruction last fall. She notes a substantial average rate increase of about 15% across the state, set to take effect by mid-next year [04:51]. Furthermore, she highlights a critical issue: the lack of flood insurance coverage. In Buncombe County, less than 1% of buildings are covered by flood insurance, leaving many without sufficient funds to rebuild after floods [05:56].

5. Housing Affordability and Insurance Costs

Sean and Kaitlyn discuss the broader implications of rising insurance costs on housing affordability. Kaitlyn points out that for many homeowners, insurance premiums and property taxes now exceed mortgage payments, making homeownership increasingly unaffordable, especially for first-time buyers [07:25]. Sara adds that renters are also indirectly affected as landlords pass on higher insurance costs [07:35].

6. Practical Tips to Lower Insurance Bills

Transitioning to actionable advice, Kaitlyn offers listeners several strategies to manage soaring insurance costs:

• Shop Around: Obtain quotes from at least three insurers to find the best rate. Kaitlyn recommends using NerdWallet’s platform to compare home insurance quotes [08:33].

• Raise Your Deductible: Increasing the deductible from $1,000 to $2,500 can save approximately 13% on premiums. However, ensure you can afford the higher deductible in case of a claim [08:33].

• Ensure Comparable Coverage: When comparing quotes, verify that each policy offers similar levels of coverage to make an accurate comparison [08:33].

• Consider Independent Agents: In areas where insurance is scarce, independent agents can provide access to a broader range of insurers [08:33].

Kaitlyn cautions against reducing coverage limits to save money, as this can lead to being underinsured in the event of a disaster [09:54].

7. Money Questions: High Yield Savings vs. Money Market Funds

In the episode's Money Questions segment, Sean and Sara address a listener's query from Aaron regarding the advantages of high yield savings accounts versus money market funds. Aaron, who invests primarily with Vanguard, questions the benefits of high yield savings accounts given that Vanguard's Federal Money Market Fund offers a higher annual return of 4.78% compared to high yield savings accounts [11:16].

8. Expert Analysis by Margaret Burnett

Margaret Burnett, a savings expert, clarifies the distinctions between different financial products:

• Money Market Mutual Funds: Investment products offered by brokerages, investing in low-risk short-term securities like treasury bills. These are not FDIC insured [13:21].

• Money Market Deposit Accounts: Bank products that are FDIC insured and can include features like check writing. They function similarly to high yield savings accounts but may offer slightly lower yields [13:21].

• High Yield Savings Accounts: Bank-backed savings accounts offering above-average interest rates, typically over 4%, and are FDIC insured. These accounts often come without monthly fees and minimum balance requirements [14:12].

Margaret emphasizes the importance of understanding fees, minimum balances, and access options when choosing between these accounts. She advises using NerdWallet’s resources to compare rates and features comprehensively [17:09].

9. Final Advice and Conclusion

Margaret advises listeners to continuously shop around for the best rates and consider alternative savings options like certificates of deposit (CDs) if they don’t need immediate access to their funds. She underscores the importance of aligning the choice of savings vehicle with individual financial goals and liquidity needs [20:48].

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to reach out with their own money questions via voicemail, text, or email, promising personalized financial guidance from NerdWallet’s experts [21:53].

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Key Takeaways:

• Rising Insurance Costs: Climate-related disasters are driving up home insurance premiums nationwide, impacting both homeowners and renters.

• Insurance Market Shifts: Major insurers are withdrawing from high-risk areas, prompting regulatory interventions to stabilize the market.

• Practical Strategies: Shoppers should compare quotes, consider higher deductibles, and ensure comprehensive coverage to manage insurance costs.

• Savings Accounts vs. Money Market Funds: Understanding the differences in insurance, returns, and accessibility is crucial for making informed savings decisions.

Notable Quotes:

• “Insurance is designed to protect you from financial ruin when unlikely but potentially catastrophic events occur.” – Sean Pyles [00:00]

• “Climate related disasters are becoming more common, more extreme, and more costly.” – Kaitlyn Constantine [02:09]

• “High yield savings accounts are FDIC insured, so your money is safe.” – Margaret Burnett [14:21]

For more detailed insights and to explore the best financial products tailored to your needs, visit NerdWallet’s website.

Transcript

[Sean Pyles]

Insurance is designed to protect you from financial ruin when unlikely but potentially catastrophic events occur.

[Sara Rathner]

But what happens when those potentially catastrophic events become more and more likely to happen?

[Sean Pyles]

This episode will help you understand how to think about protecting your home and other assets with insurance as climate disasters increase in frequency. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast. I'm Sean Pyles.

[Sara Rathner]

And I'm Sara Rathner. This episode will answer a listener's question about whether money market accounts are better than high yield savings accounts and how to know which one to use to meet your savings goals.

[Sean Pyles]

But first, we're going to talk about a significant nationwide issue coming up in the aftermath of the fires in and around Los Angeles. In fact, an issue that's been building with each weather related catastrophe. It's the skyrocketing cost of home insurance.

[Sara Rathner]

If you're a homeowner, you're probably already seeing this in your monthly bills. And if you're a renter, this affects you too, because your landlord has to pay insurance for your building.

[Sean Pyles]

We're joined now by Kaitlyn Constantine. She oversees home insurance coverage here at NerdWallet. Kaitlin did a special series for us back in the spring of 2023 on the financial ramifications of climate change. We did an entire episode on what was happening with home insurance in the wake of floods, hurricanes, fires, tornadoes, and everything else Mother Nature throws at. So we're getting the latest on this to help you cope with a future that is rapidly changing. Caitlin, welcome back.

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

Thanks, Sean and Sarah, I'm always happy to join you, but my gosh, the circumstances for this conversation could not be worse.

[Sara Rathner]

Yeah. What's happened and is happening in and around Los Angeles is a disaster of staggering proportions. You have tens of thousands of folks who are displaced, many who no longer have a home. And it's not like there are homes to spare in that part of the country. So what these fire victims are facing is not only finding shelter, but figuring out where they're going to eventually live. And that's getting more and more complex because insurance companies are pulling out of a lot of these climate change crisis zones. Right, Right.

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

We've seen Florida, California and Louisiana all have challenges with keeping insurers for a variety of reasons. But underpinning all of this is the fact that climate related disasters are becoming more common, more extreme, and more costly. So let's take California. Over the past few years, California has actually seen several major insurers like Allstate, State Farm and Farmers either stopped writing insurance policies or they declined to renew other policies. And in fact, in July, State farm dropped about 1600 policies in Pacific Palisades alone. Insurers say that the cost of paying for wildfire losses has been greater than what they were able to collect in premiums. So they chose to reduce how much they were covering in the state instead of continuing to take those losses.

[Sean Pyles]

And just last month, California's insurance commissioner released new rules that were supposed to bolster the insurance market in the state. Where might that play out in this recovery effort?

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

So these new regulations require insurers to write more home insurance policies in areas with high risk of wildfire. In exchange, those insurers can make changes in how they set their rates, and that's likely going to result in higher premiums. So to put it simply, more California homeowners will likely have access to home insurance, but they're going to have to pay more for it. The regulations may be starting to work as intended, as some insurers have recently announced that they would resume business in the state. But that said, we don't know how the wildfires are going to impact this now. It's also worth noting that there's a one year moratorium on dropping home insurance policies in the areas affected by the LA wildfires. The California insurance commissioner also called on insurance companies to rescind nonrenewals that were issued in the 90 days before the wildfires and then to also cancel pending nonrenewals. These moves should help homeowners maintain coverage when they begin to rebuild after the fires.

[Sara Rathner]

But this isn't a new story, is it? We've seen this happening all over the country. You already mentioned Florida, California, Louisiana. We also saw storms in western North Carolina this summer. And all these places that have gone through enormous tragedy, these extreme weather events end up jacking up insurance prices.

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

Sadly, it's becoming more and more common. We've been seeing home insurance costs increase around the country as extreme weather becomes more destructive and happens more frequently. And it's not just the usual suspects like Florida, Louisiana and California. Last month, the Senate Budget Committee released a report on climate change and insurance that indicated parts of southern New England, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oklahoma and the Carolinas may not be far behind. That report also warns that if these trends continue, we're going to start to see this impact property values.

[Sean Pyles]

Caitlin, I know you have some personal experience with this issue. You live in Asheville, North Carolina, where Hurricane Helene brought so much destruction last fall. What have you seen in insurance rates in the wake of natural disasters that hit where you live?

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

Well, it's a little soon for us to know how much our premiums will go up. But we do know that last week North Carolina's insurance commissioner approved an average rate of increase of about 15% across the state that will take effect by the middle of next year. So it's safe to say that many of us are going to pay more for home insurance. I will say that one thing we do know for sure that posed a huge problem for us, a lack of flood insurance. So standard home insurance doesn't cover flood damage. You have to have flood insurance specifically for that. And an analysis done by a local nonprofit news group, Asheville Watchdog, they found that less than 1% of the buildings in Buncombe county, which is where Asheville is located, were covered by flood insurance. So that means that a significant number of people who lost homes and businesses when the French Broad river flooded will not have nearly enough money to rebuild. And Asheville's not alone in this regard. A new report from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau found that people who live near inland rivers and streams are more likely to go without flood insurance than people who live near the coast. And unfortunately, the report also found that people who live near rivers tend to have fewer resources to recover than do people who live near coasts.

[Sara Rathner]

I think it's sometimes easy for people to think, well, I don't live in an area that's threatened by these kinds of events, so this insurance discussion isn't relevant to me, but it actually is. Can you tell us about how the insurance losses from disasters that might even be far from where you live end up being paid for by all of us?

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

Well, it's important to remember that the point of insurance is to spread the cost of recovering and rebuilding over a wider group of people instead of expecting individuals to shoulder those costs entirely on their own. And so it follows that when more of us file bigger claims more frequently, the pool of money we're being paid out from has to increase as well. And that's when premiums go up. I think it's an indicator of the scope of this problem that the cost of paying for weather related damage has become so high that that the increase is being felt even in places that don't see a lot of extreme weather.

[Sara Rathner]

Can you give us a sense of how much more everyone is paying because of these rolling crises?

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

Well, we've been seeing home insurance rates increase almost across the board for a few years now. Partly that's been due to inflation, but partly it's due to the aforementioned increase in severe weather in 2023. Premiums increased by more than 11% according to S&P Global. And then in 2024, our average rate for home insurance in the US was $160 a month, or a little over 1,900 do a year. And that was calculated before the most recent disasters in la in Florida and North Carolina. So we're getting ready to do our analysis for the upcoming year and we fully expect to see rates go up once again.

[Sean Pyles]

Let's talk about what all of this means for the cost of housing in this country. How do insurance costs play into the rising price you have to pay for a house or even to rent?

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

Well, in recent years, insurance premiums have become so costly for so many people that they now are paying more for insurance and taxes than for the mortgage itself. And this is yet another factor that's making home ownership unaffordable for so many people, especially first time buyers. It's not just that the house itself has become so much more expensive, but it's also much more expensive to insure it. And if you have a mortgage, you can't go without insurance. Plus, it's no longer a predictable expense as so many of us have seen big increases in our home insurance year over year. So even if you can swing the expense one year, who knows if you're going to be able to manage it three or four years down the road? And renters, this is going to impact you as well. Your landlord is going to end up paying more to insure that property and those costs will be passed down to you.

[Sean Pyles]

Let's get to some practical advice for folks who are facing, or very well could face in the future, some soaring insurance bills for their homes. Caitlin, can you give us three or four top things people can do right now to try to lower those bills?

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

So first of all, if you get hit with a big insurance bill, you definitely should shop around for a new policy. We recommend getting quotes from at least three insurers. You can start on our site. If you do a search for Nerd Wallet home insurance quotes, you'll get a page and you can get started by entering your zip code on the page that comes up. When you are getting quotes, it's really important to make sure that the quotes have comparable levels of coverage so that you are measuring apples to apples. If insurance is scarce in your area, which it very well could be, your best bet is going to be working with an independent insurance agent. They will know about all of the good insurers who sell in your area, not just the ones with the big ad budgets or the goofy mascots. And another money saving tactic is raising your deductible. We found that if you raise your deductible from $1,000 to $2,500, you can save on average, nearly 13% on your premium. But if you do this, it's super important to make sure you can cover that expense. And really, it's important that you make sure you read your policy carefully. You might have a separate deductible for hail or wind damage. In fact, your policy is going to have all kinds of details about possible exclusions or limitations. So it's really critical to read it and make sure you understand it. One thing we don't recommend doing to save money is reducing how much coverage you have. It may be tempting to save money by lowering your coverage limits, but if disaster strikes, you're going to be very glad you're not underinsured.

[Sean Pyles]

Kaitlyn Constantine, thank you so much for helping us out today.

[Kaitlyn Constantine]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Sara Rathner]

In a moment, we'll turn to this episode's Money Questions segment where we help you dig into whether high yield savings accounts live up to the hype or if other types of savings accounts might be better for you.

[Sean Pyles]

But before we get into that, we're going to ask you, nerdy listener, to pause, literally perhaps, to think about where you need some guidance with your money.

[Sara Rathner]

Maybe you're wondering about how to compare different insurance companies, or you're trying to break yourself out of a bad financial habit but just can't seem to do it. Whatever your money question, we nerds are here to help. Leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901730, nerd. Or email [e-mail] and a reminder that.

[Sean Pyles]

One of our goals on Smart Money this year is to talk with more of you live on the podcast to help you with your money questions. If you want to hang out with Sarah and me for a bit and get some nerdy wisdom, let us know one more time. Leave us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901730, nerd. And you can always email [e-mail] all.

[Sara Rathner]

Right, let's get to this episode's Money Question segment. That's up next. Stay with us.

[Sean Pyles]

We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from Aaron, who sent us an email. Here it is. Hi nerdwallet team. I wanted to reach out and share some thoughts on a topic I know you cover often High yield Savings accounts. As someone who invests across platforms primarily with Vanguard, I've noticed that their Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund, while requiring a $3,000 minimum, consistently offers a higher annual return than most high yield savings accounts. This raises a question in my mind. Aside from the convenience of short term liquidity for bill payments or direct deposits, is there much advantage to high yield savings accounts? The Money Market Fund has no cap on purchases, is FDIC insured, and currently offers a 4.78% yield which seems to outshine high yield savings accounts for similar security.

[Sara Rathner]

Aaron continues thinking a bit deeper. It seems that financial institutions heavily market high yield savings accounts, yet these often come in half a percent to 1% lower than similar money market funds. From what I see, this setup is quite profitable for banks. They enjoy liquidity from deposits while offering a quote unquote high yield that still nets them a solid margin with minimal risk. High yield savings accounts essentially allow institutions to secure a consistent return without needing to invest actively. A profit margin they might not achieve with conventional investment accounts. Given your expertise in high yield savings, I'd love to hear your perspective. Do you agree with this assessment? And if so, why are high yield accounts marketed as a beneficial product for the average saver? To help us answer Erin's question on this episode of the podcast, we are joined by Margaret Burnett. Margaret is a savings expert who has been writing about bank accounts for more than a decade. Her work has been featured in the Associated Press, USA Today and other major media. Margaret, welcome to Smart Money.

[Margaret Burnett]

Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.

[Sean Pyles]

Hey Margaret. So let's start with the basics. What is the difference between a high yield savings account and a money market account? Let's start with the money market account. What is it and where and how do you get one?

[Margaret Burnett]

This is a great question, Sean, and I'm happy to answer it. But there is a point I'd like to clear up first in the terminology, because money market means different things depending on the context. So a money market mutual fund, like the Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund is an investment product. It's offered by a brokerage, not a bank. As a mutual fund, it pulls investors money into low risk short term securities. So think government securities such as treasury bills. This fund is not FDIC insured. That's the key difference. A money market deposit account on the other Hand is a bank product. It is a savings account that can sometimes come with check writing features, but importantly, it is FDIC insured. This means your money is protected by the federal government and you can open.

[Sean Pyles]

One at a bank and a high yield savings account. This might seem obvious, especially because we do talk about them a lot on the show, but let's define those as well.

[Margaret Burnett]

A high yield savings account is also a bank product. It's simply a savings account that pays above average rates. So, for example, the national average rate for savings accounts is currently less than half a percentage point. But you can find high yield savings accounts that offer more than 4% annually. Also like the money market deposit account, High yield savings accounts are FDIC insured, so your money is safe.

[Sara Rathner]

Let's talk about this question of returns or interest that you would earn on money that you deposit in both of these types of accounts. Money market deposit accounts, which is really just a type of savings account, and high yield savings accounts, which of course are another type of savings account. Again, the listener was conflating money market deposit accounts with money market mutual funds. That's a type of investment account. It's very different. So where do returns come from in a money market deposit account?

[Margaret Burnett]

With money market deposit accounts, returns are based on interest rates set by the bank. They are generally tied to something called the federal funds rate, and rates can change at any time. That said, when you make your deposit, you typically know the rate you can expect at least as of the day you make that deposit.

[Sara Rathner]

And what about high yield savings accounts? Or really any savings accounts?

[Margaret Burnett]

High yield savings accounts work the same way as money market deposit accounts. Interest rates are set by banks and can change based on the market environment. Again, these are both different from money market mutual funds. Their returns are based on the performance of the securities the funds invest in, like treasury bills, and these returns are called a yield. It's worth noting that future returns in a mutual fund are not guaranteed, so.

[Sean Pyles]

Let'S look at Aaron's example here. What would they want to think about when looking at these options for placing their money?

[Margaret Burnett]

Here are a few things to think about. First, fees and minimum balances. You can find high yield savings accounts that don't charge monthly fees and don't have minimum balance requirements. Money market mutual funds may charge an expense ratio, which is essentially a fee for the fund, and they may also have minimum balance requirements, as Erin noted above. Next is your returns. Of course, the higher your yield or the more interest you earn in the savings account, the faster your balance can grow and finally, you'll want to think about access to your money with savings accounts. If you have an ATM card, you may be able to go to an ATM machine and withdraw money instantly. Or you could set up an automatic transfer that can be sent to a linked account within a day or so. Money Market Deposit Accounts those savings accounts work similarly, with some giving you the ability to write a few checks each month.

[Sean Pyles]

And now, what about money market mutual funds? If someone does decide to put their money into one of these investment accounts, is getting your money from one of those accounts as easy as getting it from a money market deposit account or a high yield savings account?

[Margaret Burnett]

Some money market mutual funds do let you write checks as well, but there may be a minimum withdrawal requirement otherwise. To access your money, you may need to sell shares, and that could take a day or two to settle. I'll note that the savings accounts and money market deposit accounts with the highest rates do tend to be online accounts, so going to a local bank branch to withdraw money usually isn't an option. So you'll want to take that into account when making a decision about which one to open.

[Sean Pyles]

Fortunately, our job here at NerdWallet is to make decisions like this easier. So I do want to mention that we have articles on the best high yield savings accounts and the best money market deposit accounts on NerdWallet's website. You can check the NerdWallet rating, the APY, and any relevant bonus offers for each account along with some of that other information we just talked about, like minimum balances and fees. And if you want, you can also look up money market mutual funds as well. We'll put links to those articles in today's show.

[Sara Rathner]

Notes Aaron also talks about what they think is behind the differences in the rates being offered. They think it's about profitability. Could you talk us through why a bank would be marketing or offering one versus the other?

[Margaret Burnett]

Here's an important distinction. Banks market deposit products like checking accounts, savings accounts, and money market deposit accounts. They're FDIC insured for customers. Investment companies, on the other hand, market money market mutual funds. To be fair, these mutual funds are considered low risk investments, but they don't come with insurance or guaranteed returns. Also, I should point out that some banks have investment arms, so it's possible to see both types of products under a similar brand. But the bank side would not market a mutual fund and the investment side would not market a deposit product.

[Sean Pyles]

And let's talk a bit about the role of FDIC insurance here. Can you lay that out for us?

[Margaret Burnett]

Margaret FDIC insurance is a safety net that guarantees your bank deposits up to $250,000 per depositor per bank. So even if the bank goes under, your money is protected. Now, there are regulations for mutual funds, but funds don't have that FDIC guarantee.

[Sean Pyles]

And again, to get back to Aaron's question, it seems like they're making this apples to oranges comparison. They say they can get a return of 4.78% on their investment account, while savings accounts may offer a yield of closer to around 4%. As of this recording, I want to quickly state that each account would serve a different purpose. It's generally not a great idea to have your savings in an investment account in case you do need to draw on that money in an emergency.

[Margaret Burnett]

In general, I'd suggest folks poke around with a savings calculator to see how much you could earn with a rate of 4.5%, for example, compared with a rate of say 5% or 4%, depending on how much money you have in your account. An account with a slightly higher rate may not net you that much more.

[Sean Pyles]

So the lesson here is to do a bit of research to find those higher returns for yourself. They could go in either direction with these options.

[Margaret Burnett]

Absolutely. This is especially true when you consider any fees that could be taken out of your returns with the money market mutual fund, for example.

[Sara Rathner]

Do you have any other final advice for our listeners as they chase higher returns in an environment where interest rates are coming down, but sometimes they're faced with products that sound like they're the same thing, but they're actually completely different things.

[Margaret Burnett]

That's very true. A couple of different issues here, and my answer to both is to shop around. It's not a given that money market mutual funds, which again are investment accounts, always offer better results than the best high yield savings accounts. You'll want to check out up to date lists of the top high yield savings accounts and money market deposit accounts because you may find some that offer better rates compared to the yields on money market mutual funds. In addition, if you know you won't need the money right away, you can consider looking at a certificate of deposit. If rates fall, then locking in today's CD rates could ultimately give you a better yield than all of the previous options. The key is you generally won't be able to make a withdrawal with CDs until the term is over. So say for a one year CD, you'd agree not to make a withdrawal for one year overall, depending on your goals, a CD, a high yield savings account money market deposit account or money market mutual fund could be the right choice.

[Sean Pyles]

Margaret, thank you so much for coming on and clarifying all these different accounts and who they might be best for.

[Margaret Burnett]

Thank you.

[Sean Pyles]

That's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we are here for you and your money questions. So turn to the Nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730 N E R D. You can also email us at podcasterdwallet.com visit nerdwallet.com podcast for more info on this episode. And remember, you can follow the show on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio, to automatically download new episodes.

[Sara Rathner]

And here's our brief disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

[Sean Pyles]

And with that said, until next time, turn to the Nerds.