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NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Split-Expense Planning for Couples and the Winter Homebuying Advantage
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- [00:01]
A
The following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.
- [00:07]
B
You guys have heard me talk about BILT as the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live. And guess what? They just leveled up even more. As of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.
- [00:22]
A
This is thanks to Bilt's three new credit cards, the Palladium Card, Obsidian Card and Blue Card. All three can turn your housing payments, rent or mortgage into flexible rewards so you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits.
- [00:36]
B
Built Points can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments and more. Built Points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency.
- [00:49]
A
Your housing payment is most likely your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and Apply today at joinbuilt.com smartmoney that's J-O-I N B I L-T.com smartmoney make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and limitations apply subject to approval and eligibility.
- [01:11]
B
BILT cards are issued by column NA member FDIC pursuant to license for MasterCard.
- [01:17]
A
International, Inc. Today's episode is sponsored by Quint's.
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- [02:37]
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Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U I N C E.com smartmoney to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com smart money managing your finances as a couple can be complicated. Add an age gap and hopes of an early retirement into that mix and things get even more difficult to navigate. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.
- [03:07]
B
And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. Later on this episode, we're going to be helping a couple work through how to manage their expenses. And we'll be doing that while live. But first, our weekly MONEY News roundup where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money. Our news colleague Ana Helhosky is back. Hello, hello. Hello, Ana.
- [03:27]
C
Hey, Elizabeth and Sean. So today we're going to be joined by mortgage writers Abby Badik Doyle and Kate Wood to reflect on home buying and selling during the winter and what they're keeping an eye on in February. That's the month when the market comes out of winter hibernation. Welcome back to both of you.
- [03:42]
D
Oh, thank you for having us.
- [03:44]
E
Thanks. Good to be back.
- [03:45]
C
So let's zoom out for a second. December through February is usually the slowest time of the year for home buying and selling. And I know I slow down in winter, but why does the market slow down, too?
- [03:55]
E
A lot of it is just human behavior. Winter is hibernation season and, you know, we have the holidays and then in January, you might need time to recover from the holidays. And just in general, people don't love moving when it's dark and cold and possibly snowing. Parents tend to avoid pulling their kids out of school mid middle of the year. And all of kind of leads to a general sense of like, well, if we've made it this far, like, we might as well just wait till spring.
- [04:20]
D
Yeah, the winter market has fewer buyers, but it also has fewer sellers, which does mean lower inventory. So often people who list their homes in winter are doing it because they have to, not necessarily because they want to. So winter sellers who list in the winter are often dealing with a big Life change could be a death in the family, a divorce, maybe relocating for their career.
- [04:43]
C
So if there's fewer buyers and fewer sellers, who has the upper hand?
- [04:48]
E
I'd say buyers tend to benefit the most from less competition. That's a big advantage. And, you know, there might be fewer homes for sale, but they tend to stay on the market longer in the winter. So in the winter, buyers have a better shot when they want to make an offer. Like, in peak season, you might be competing with a handful of offers, but in the winter, you might be one of two offers, or maybe even the only one.
- [05:10]
D
Exactly. Average home prices tend to drop in the winter, too. So seasonally, December through February prices are about 16% lower than when the market's at its peak in June. That's according to numbers from the national association of Realtors.
- [05:24]
C
There's no buyer on the planet who's going to complain about less competition and lower prices. But is there some kind of catch? What should buyers be cautious about in the winter?
- [05:32]
E
You really have to do your due diligence at the walkthrough and at the home inspection. Snow and ice can hide a lot of major issues. For a recent NerdWallet story, I interviewed a real estate broker from Valdez, Alaska, and she tells her buyers, when the snow melts, am I going to find an old car hiding out there in the woods? Your surprise reveal might not be that dramatic, but even a little bit of snow can hide major problems with the property. Things like roof or siding damage, cracks in the driveway or in the sidewalks, drainage problems in the yard, or even septic system issues.
- [06:08]
D
So you can use that winter weather to your advantage, though, since, after all, you're going to be living in the place year round, so long as it's not your second home. So you really do want to know how the home feels in winter. Honestly, my last house, I closed in September, and if I had toured it in winter, I don't know if I would have bought it. It was beautiful, but it really, really felt like a cabin. So this is the time where you're going to know, like, wow, the heating really isn't that great, or are we getting enough natural light? Or, you know, does it feel like you're in a cave? Stuff that you wouldn't be able to tell if you were touring the home in warmer weather.
- [06:44]
E
Yes to the vibe check. And if you do spot a major issue, remember that sellers who list in the winter are often pretty eager to sell. So if you get an estimate saying, this will be a $10,000 repair, a motivated seller might be willing to negotiate with you on the asking price or even offer to cover the cost of that repair.
- [07:04]
C
So during the winter, buyers may be getting a break on affordability, which is always nice. But a big chunk of your monthly bill comes from the mortgage rate and that's not something you can really control. Abby, where are the rates sitting right now?
- [07:16]
E
Things are pretty stable right now, Ana. As of the end of January, the average 30 year fixed mortgage rate was right around 6%. And that's about a full percentage point lower than the average rate in January 2025. And generally speaking, that's about the lowest that we've seen mortgage rates in three years.
- [07:34]
C
I'm going to be asking both of you a crystal ball question a minute, which I know everybody loves. But first, how much do the Fed's moves actually affect mortgage rates? They kept the federal funds rates steady at their meeting last month, but is that going to actually mean anything for buyers?
- [07:48]
D
So it might not mean as much as buyers might hope it would. The Fed does not set mortgage rates, but a lot of people think it does. The Federal Reserve sets the funds rate, which you just mentioned. That's a key short term borrowing rate. That change ripples out to other interest rates. Those changes, however, don't directly affect mortgage rates. What you're really seeing moving, when you're seeing mortgage rates moving, you are seeing the markets moving. So they're responding not even necessarily to the Fed's decisions, but to the Fed's plans. Right. So it's less about, oh, what did they just decide to do and what did they say right after in that press conference? Where did they say that they're heading? Markets, including bond markets tend to move ahead of the Fed. So they're either reacting to rate cuts or rate hikes before they are made. So mortgage rates tend to move along with 10 year treasury bills because mortgage backed securities and those 10 year T bills tend to appeal to similar investors. So this is one reason why you'll often see mortgage rates get to where the Fed is going before the central bankers get there. So that means folks that are waiting for the Fed to cut rates because they think it will lower mortgage rates are often disappointed because if the Fed is about to make a cut, that often means mortgage rates have already dropped. Right now, like Ana mentioned, the Fed chose to hold the fem's rate steady. They're kind of in wait and see mode for now. That's a signal that the economy is stable enough. The central bankers don't feel like they need to intervene too much. There are some folks out there who are more anxious about the job market and think the Fed should cut further. But you know, until we see dramatically different data, we're likely to see the central bankers kind of chill for a while. There's also been a lot of Fed related news lately, like way more than is ever normal. But these big changes that people are talking about, like a new Federal Reserve chair this spring, those are not going to have an immediate effect on mortgage rates.
- [09:42]
C
Okay, so looking ahead to spring, do you have any sense of where mortgage rates might be going?
- [09:47]
D
So pending any major surprises from the market? And I never can count that out. I've had them ruin too many forecasts to not count them out. But most, most economists, most forecasters are expecting mortgage rates to remain in that low 6% range for the near future.
- [10:04]
E
Because things are pretty steady right now. It's a great opportunity for buyers to jump in, shop around for a mortgage pre approval, and then lock in your rate before the spring rush.
- [10:13]
C
Yeah, and spring will be here before we know it. And that's what I keep telling myself while piles of snow are so frozen on the ground here in New York. So when will we see more homes actually hit the market?
- [10:23]
D
Well, people tend to think of springtime as the traditional home buying season, Right. Growth, rebirth, homes on the market, everything's coming back. So it is true that peak buying season in terms of homes going under contract, that's April through June. But in terms of inventory coming on the market, that begins a little earlier than that, usually in February, right after the Super Bowl. So good news, you might already be seeing more open houses and new listings starting to pop up.
- [10:51]
E
And every local market is different. February might feel early, but don't sleep on house hunting as early as right now. You want to have your finances in order so that you can move fast when a good listing pops up.
- [11:03]
D
Yes, absolutely. If you are in that stage where you're just getting started and trying to figure out the money stuff, check out NerdWallet's How Much House Can I Afford Calculator. It's a great place to get started.
- [11:12]
C
Yeah, we'll link to it in the show notes.
- [11:13]
E
So, a little February story from my own experience. Two years ago, my husband and I started our house hunt in the month of February. And by the end of the month, there was the most adorable little starter home that popped up in our top ranked neighborhood. And we put in our bid a little bit over asking, thinking that we were being competitive. And then our buyer's agent told us that we were one of 22 offers.
- [11:39]
B
Wow.
- [11:39]
D
Are you sure that was two years ago? Because that really sounds like 20, 21.
- [11:43]
F
I know.
- [11:43]
E
It was the highest amount of offers that our buyer's agent had ever seen. And we didn't get the house. Candidly, I think someone probably overpaid for it. But for weeks afterward, it was all that anybody in the neighborhood was talking about. Every open house that we went to at a similar price point in a similar area after that, the agent or the other buyers would say, were you also part of that bidding war on such and such street? And we're like, yeah, we're in the losers.
- [12:10]
D
It just goes to show that real estate is really local. So something that you're hearing about the entire country might not apply where you live. Nationally, we've seen a lot more inventory coming onto the market in the past two years. But how much more and what people are paying for it is really going to vary depending on where you live or where you're trying to move to. Still, you know, more homes for sale hopefully means bidding wars are a little less soul crushing. Sure, yeah.
- [12:38]
E
Here's hoping. So again, every local market is going to be different. But for our listeners, the TLDR is that seasonally speaking, the housing market heats up sooner than you think. So if you want to buy this year, now is the time to get your finances in order, link up with a buyer's agent and get that pre approval. And that way you'll have all of your ducks in a row when a good listing comes along.
- [13:00]
C
Right. Even if it's sub zero temperatures and there's still snow on the ground.
- [13:04]
D
I mean, you just have to think ahead to how good summer is going to be.
- [13:08]
C
Right.
- [13:08]
D
Once you're in your new home.
- [13:09]
C
Oh, here's hoping. Abby and Kate, thank you so much for joining us today.
- [13:13]
D
Thanks for having me.
- [13:14]
B
Thank you. And thank you, Ana. I feel a little bit inspired. I think I'm gonna have a new hobby during the springtime. Just going to look at houses just because I'm not buying. But I just want to go look because why not?
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A
One of these days you're just going to jump into buying a house. I know it.
- [13:28]
B
That's what you think. Listen, let me tell you, I am having nostalgia thinking about that 3% interest rate during the pandemic. I almost bought a house. Almost. But I didn't want to be house poor. And you guys are breaking my heart by telling me it's not coming back. That we're hovering around 6%. So till then, I'll be window shopping.
- [13:43]
A
Hey, you can just live vicariously through me. My interest rate's about that low anyway. Moving on up Next, we answer a listener's question about how to manage expenses and saving for retirement as a couple. But first, listeners, you know the drill. This is a show that runs on your money questions, so send them our way. We're also working on a special episode all about tax season 2026. So whatever you're wondering about around your taxes, send your questions to us, the nerds.
- [14:10]
B
You can leave us a voicemail. You can text us on the Nerd hotline. The number is 901-730-6373. Again, that's 901-730-N E R D. You can also pop us an email at podcasterdwallet in a moment.
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A
This episode's money question. Stay with us.
- [14:32]
B
Today's episode is sponsored by Spectrum Business.
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- [15:50]
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Services not available in all areas. The following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.
- [15:59]
B
You guys have heard me talk about Bilt as the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live. And guess what? They just leveled up Even More as of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.
- [16:14]
A
This is thanks to Bilt's three new credit cards, the Palladium Card, Obsidian Card, and Blue Card. All three can turn your housing payments, rent or mortgage into flexible rewards. So you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits.
- [16:29]
B
Built points can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments and more. Built Points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency.
- [16:42]
A
Your housing payment is most likely your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at joinbuilt.com smartmoney that's J-O-I N B I L T.com smartmoney make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and limitations apply subject to approval and eligibility.
- [17:04]
B
BILT cards are issued by column n, a member FDIC, pursuant to license for MasterCard International Income.
- [17:12]
A
We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions this episode. We're joined by two listeners, Claire and Robbie, who have some questions about how to equitably manage their finances and plan for their retirement as a couple.
- [17:25]
B
Claire and Robbie, welcome to Smart money.
- [17:27]
F
Thanks for having us.
- [17:29]
G
Thanks.
- [17:29]
B
I'm so excited to have a couple here today and we are excited to dig into your finances and answer your questions.
- [17:35]
A
Can we start by hearing a little more about your relationship and how you've managed money together so far?
- [17:41]
G
We've been dating a little over a year, and Claire just moved in about three months ago. So we kind of came to an agreement before she moved in that she would help essentially, like, pay rent because we currently live together in a house I purchased last year. So she essentially just pays like a flat fee every month. And then I pay the mortgage and the utilities and everything that. Everything else that goes along with it.
- [18:16]
A
Okay, and how did you decide what that rent amount is going to be?
- [18:20]
G
So prior to her moving into the house, she was obviously at her own place and was living in an apartment, and I felt that it shouldn't be the same as what she's paying for her apartment. And we kind of talked about it and both agreed on the specific number that she's currently paying.
- [18:44]
A
Well, I know you have some questions for us about how to equitably share this expense and we'll get to that in a little bit. But one Thing you mentioned when you wrote to us, Claire, was that you two have a pretty notable age gap. So talk with us about that and whether it's affected the way you guys relate to each other and have managed your finances as you've been together.
- [19:04]
F
Yeah, we are 16 years apart. We personally never think about it, really. We met at a run club. Our interests are very similar. Like, both live an active lifestyle. But I do think that financially it's come up just in that, you know, something that attracted us to each other is that we're both very open about our finances and very interested in how to kind of optimize what we're doing. And I think even before I moved in, we were already talking about retirement and not only what we do, but how that could potentially create issues, especially in terms of retirement. So, yeah, I think that's where it's come up most for us. Otherwise, you know, I don't think we think about it much.
- [19:50]
B
Okay. And then what do you guys do for work? I know that you wrote to us and said that you have similar income. So what do you guys do?
- [19:56]
F
So I work as an analyst in tech and Robbie works in Salesforce. Something.
- [20:05]
B
You gotta love. How I. Some people ask me like, oh, what does your friend do or sister do for work? And I'm like, something around something you just never. Never sticks. Right.
- [20:13]
F
I, like, I only have a loose understanding.
- [20:16]
A
Yes. You're focused on other things that are more important, perhaps.
- [20:19]
F
Exactly.
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G
The technical version is, I'm a software consultant in tech.
- [20:25]
F
I was really close.
- [20:27]
A
Something. Yes. And how much do you each make?
- [20:30]
F
It's around 130.
- [20:32]
A
Okay, so you guys are making about the same.
- [20:35]
G
Yes.
- [20:35]
A
Okay. With that, do you find that you feel really compelled to share things? 50. 50. Because a lot of times we get questions from couples where they think, oh, one person makes a lot more than the other. How should we actually divvy up our expenses? What's your conversation about that?
- [20:49]
G
Like, we haven't had a lot of conversations about it other than just, you know, what she would potentially pay whenever she moved in. I will say for like, going out and entertainment and traveling and stuff like that, we try to just split it down the middle. But as far as, like, the household stuff, she pays her part in rent, and then I pretty much pay everything else.
- [21:17]
B
And do you guys have any plans or have you talked about potentially pulling your money together or you plan to keep your finances separate?
- [21:24]
F
For the most part, yeah.
- [21:26]
G
That hasn't been a discussion of, like, pulling. Pulling things together.
- [21:31]
A
Okay. You don't have to. I mean, I'm married to my husband and we don't have any shared finances. We just cover things on our own and we'll, we'll venmo each other often, which is maybe inefficient, but it works for us. But speaking of being married, you guys have been together for a year, as you said. Are you planning to get married? Because you guys have some pretty long term plans or aspirations here. Has that come into the picture at all? Yeah, sorry to put you on the spot here. Don't know if you guys have talked about it.
- [21:57]
F
Yeah, we've talked about kind of what the timeline might look like for that, which would be like maybe in two years time or something. So, yeah, it's definitely on our minds of or clearly both planners because we're thinking kind of down the line. Yes, it definitely is something we've talked about.
- [22:15]
G
Yeah, we've definitely discussed it. We currently don't have like hard set plans or anything like that, so. But it has been something that's, that's come up.
- [22:24]
B
All right, so we want to know, since you guys are long term planners and thinking about the future. I love that. What are your thoughts around retirement? How much do you have saved so far? And then what are your goals?
- [22:33]
G
I have about 900 saved across multiple different accounts like a rollover IRA, a Roth IRA, 401K, HSA, Standard Savings and Brokerage.
- [22:46]
A
Congratulations, that's an accomplishment.
- [22:48]
G
Thank you. About 150 of that is in a Roth or a Roth version because I do have the option in my 401k to contribute to a Roth portion. So that's where I stand.
- [23:07]
B
And then what about you, Claire?
- [23:08]
F
I kind of had to reset into my retirement savings because I've been living abroad before. We met for six years and kind of put retirement savings on pause during that time. That said, I have a little over 200k in retirement savings right now. So the bulk of that is in an account with Vanguard. So a target Savings Fund for 2060. I've got a rollover Ira. I am contributing or maxing out my Roth. So in the last two years I've done that. And then I have a 411k that's about 30k. So I'm maxing that out, given the kind of limit for 2026 as well.
- [23:47]
B
You guys are so financially savvy. I love to hear it.
- [23:50]
G
Thank you.
- [23:51]
A
And I. Well, speaking of retirement, I know one of your main questions was how to think about retirement given your age gap and your planning. So what Are your main questions or concerns there?
- [24:01]
F
We're on different timelines. You know, I was already a little behind because I took six, six years out of saving. You know, if I were to retire at 65, I'd retire really well. But kind. Neither of us wants to work forever, so we'd like to retire at or before kind of normal retirement age. But we'd also like to spend as much of retirement together. And I think that kind of inevitably means that I would need to retire early. And I think we haven't quite circled that square of how to do that or what options we have as far as, yeah, being able to do that. So I think we were very curious to hear kind of what our options are or maybe some of the pitfalls of early retirement, if that was the.
- [24:51]
A
Option that I took. Have you guys played around with our Retirement Calculator at NerdWallet much?
- [24:56]
F
I have heard of it. My parents are a big fan.
- [24:59]
A
So I really recommend using that just so you can get an understanding of some numbers here, because that will help you understand how much you might need to save. Because you guys will have a longer overall retirement timeline than most couples. Right. Because, Claire, you're hoping to retire earlier, so you might have a retirement. If this goes according to how you would like. It could be 30, 40 plus years if you are hoping to retire around when Robbie's going to. So there are a few different options. One, Claire, you could retire early, which seems like the goal. Another one is that, Robby, you could work longer, even part time, until Claire can retire, although that seems like the least desirable option for you guys. And then you could also even temporarily have a split household where maybe Robbie is retired. And Claire, you're still working to catch up the difference of those years where you weren't saving for retirement. Additionally, you could kind of split the difference between your saving and work timelines where Claire saves more aggressively now and Robbie might work a little bit longer than he wants to. So does any of that resonate with you? Yeah, you want to retire as soon as you can. Yeah.
- [26:05]
G
And going back to the, like, discussion about expenses, one of the reasons we came up with the figure that we did is, you know, I wanted it to be lower than what she was paying for rent so that she would have the ability to save even more in her retirement account. So that was something we also discussed whenever we were trying to figure out, okay, how, like, how do we make this fair?
- [26:31]
B
Well, one thing I want to bring up that comes to mind that you could potentially do, Claire, you guys are financially savvy, so I'm going to assume that you've heard about fire, financial independence, retire early. Have you? So is that something you guys have thought about or discussed?
- [26:44]
F
I don't think we have or I personally haven't engaged with FIRE specifically, but I'm familiar with the concept.
- [26:49]
B
So it's essentially financial independence, retire early. And there are different types of fire, but for you guys, the situation, what comes to mind for me is potentially doing barista fire and that is when you semi retire so you save enough. Whereas you can semi retire and then you take a part time job so that you're not doing maybe your demanding career job. And that way you guys have more time to spend on the beach together and get lunch and Netflix and chill while you're still earning enough money to do things like cover healthcare expenses and also fund fund money. And I know healthcare can be a big thing when you retire early since you wouldn't be eligible for Medicare yet if you do that before the age of 65. But if you semi retire, you can still get those health care benefits while also having some freedom.
- [27:31]
G
That is my vision of retirement. If I need to work some sort of, you know, part time gig, I could, but I want to have the, essentially the choice because if we think about it, we have a lot of time or we spend a lot of time working. And I feel like a lot of people don't think about, okay, what are you going to do to fill all that damn time? Yeah, that's something I've, I've spent a lot of time thinking about, of. Okay, let's say I didn't have to work anymore. What, what am I going to do?
- [28:04]
B
What, What Robbie?
- [28:05]
A
What did you pick up a hobby? You can volunteer somewhere And I think that that actually leads into some good planning that you guys could do. One thing that's really key with FIRE is that in these years where you're working as hard as you can, saving as much as you can, you'll want to be tucking away between 50 and 70% of your income that is a core tenant of fire to make those many years of retirement feasible. So you'll have to sacrifice some of those vacations or maybe dining out now just to put as much as you can in your 401ks. It's great to hear that you're maxing that out, Claire. But also things like a taxable brokerage account which you would be able to access earlier than something like a 401k without penalties. Meanwhile, as you think about your jobs and how you could maybe have a more flexible working schedule in your semi retirement. Is there a way where you can begin to position yourself to be almost a consultant so you can have part time work but on your schedule?
- [28:55]
G
Yeah, and that's, that's definitely something I need to think about or look into. But in that same vein, like Claire kind of has a, a part time gig already that she does, so she could continue doing something like that to help offset like the health care costs that we've talked about.
- [29:15]
B
That's right. That's right.
- [29:16]
A
What is your part time gig, Claire?
- [29:18]
F
I dog sit.
- [29:20]
B
Oh, that's good. Sean has a dog. Sean, are you going to talk about your dog now?
- [29:24]
A
My dog is napping right next to me in this chair.
- [29:26]
F
Yeah, it's n. I do it primarily because I love dogs, but we also love travel. So I think it's kind of best of both worlds that I get that dog time but then kind of none of the bad parts.
- [29:38]
A
Yeah, you don't have to look for a dog sitter of your own because yeah, you can just travel when you want to. That's great.
- [29:43]
F
And I like to put that money or so far I've been putting that money in a sunny day fund. So I have 12 months of expenses in a rainy day fund, but then I put all the dog sitting money into a sunny day fund to potentially pay for a honeymoon or whatever that ends up being.
- [30:01]
A
That is a great term that I haven't heard before since I have a sunny day fund. I love the optimism of that.
- [30:07]
B
What are some other things aside from traveling that you envision yourself doing during retirement and also because you want to retire together, what are some things you want to do together?
- [30:16]
F
I think the big thing we've talked about is keeping our place in Austin as a home base and then doing, you know, one month stints abroad or in other places in the U.S. we.
- [30:27]
G
Haven'T discussed like the house and mortgage and all that adulting stuff. But one of my big goals is to pay that off in the next 10 to 15 years so that if I do potentially retire within that same time frame, that's an additional expense that we don't necessarily have to worry about. And that other than her vehicle is the only debt that we have. So we don't have school loans or credit card debt or any of that fun stuff. So that's something that we've kind of discussed is, you know, we like, we don't have a lot of expenses that a lot of other adults have, like kids or, you know, debt or anything like that. So we're very lucky to be in that situation. But that's like one less thing that we don't have to worry about.
- [31:22]
A
Yeah. One thing I'm thinking about there is you might have to sacrifice either your retirement savings or your mortgage payment to hit either of those goals. So which one would maybe be a greater priority to you? This is where calculators can be really handy to help you see how much further your money would go if you're stuffing as much as you can into different types of investment and retirement accounts versus putting extra toward your mortgage. I understand and really see the appeal of not wanting to have a mortgage payment in your retirement. But there's a chance that you might be better served by putting all that money into your investments now so it can grow and you might get a better return based on, you know, what you're paying for your mortgage and your interest rate there.
- [32:01]
G
Yeah, it's just making the best decision or whatever personal decision suits you best.
- [32:09]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [32:10]
A
It's not just about the numbers, too. It's also what helps you feel better about your money. And sometimes that's paying down your mortgage.
- [32:16]
F
Yeah.
- [32:17]
G
You know, you made the comment about you have to choose between one or the other. Claire, her saving percentage is pretty close to 40. We're both pretty close to 40%. And I'm essentially taking like the extra money that or the money that she pays every month. And I just put that towards the mortgage. So there's a little wiggle room either way if we want to make adjustments there.
- [32:46]
B
All right, well, speaking of mortgage, you all also sent us a question around how to make it fair considering that Claire is contributing towards the mortgage. And sometimes couples have a concern that if they break up, one person has helped the other pay down their mortgage and they leave having to go and pay rent somewhere again. So what kind of questions did you.
- [33:04]
F
Guys have around that kind of what our options are as far as splitting that expense or especially given kind of longer term goals, we're in a unique position, and so it's hard to ask other couples kind of what they're doing. You know, they'll have kids or they'll have different things going on. Find out if we have other options we might want to consider about how to split that expense. If I remember correctly, it's 50% of the mortgage payment.
- [33:30]
A
Correct.
- [33:32]
F
So again, kind of goes back to that. We earn the same as where that number kind of came from as well. But especially given wanting to retire together. If that at all, also comes in to consideration of maybe that payment being different to maximize retirement savings or whatever that might look like.
- [33:49]
A
I actually am in a kind of similar situation with my husband, where we live in his house in Portland. I have a house in Washington that I rent out, and I pay him rent, and I pay him a flat amount that is like $1,000. So it's a little less than half of the mortgage. And we account for the difference because he is getting the equity in this house. And I don't cover any utilities in this house because I'm paying for maintenance on my own house. So if something needs to be repaired, he'll pay for that. But then sometimes if there's a cosmetic change that I want to make, like last year, I wanted all new light fixtures in the house. And after coming back from my honeymoon in Japan, I needed to have a bidet in my bathroom, and I'm paying for that. So it's a little bit squishy here and there, but it feels very equitable. And that's the key thing I want to emphasize, is that it feels like you have a right balance for your incomes, and it sounds like you're doing that. We haven't touched. Touched on maintenance a lot. Robbie, are you covering that? Is that my understanding?
- [34:48]
G
There's not a lot of that, but yeah, anything household related would fall under my umbrella, I guess.
- [34:56]
B
Okay. And then, Robbie, I know that you mentioned earlier that when you guys were deciding how much rent Claire would pay, you did factor in her being able to save more for retirement. So maybe you adjusted that number to accommodate that. So, Claire, do you feel like that feels a bit more fair because you're able to maybe save more towards retirement than you would have if you were still renting your apartment?
- [35:15]
F
Oh, definitely. So I think that. And kind of framing it in terms of maybe not paying for utilities is kind of the way of adjusting for building his equity kind of is a nice reframing for me.
- [35:30]
A
Is there anything else that could make it feel more fair for either of you?
- [35:34]
F
Like we said, we're. We're still having some conversations in that area. I think this podcast has. Has brought some up. So even last night we talked about when we go out, making sure that that's more 50, that's probably geared more towards Robbie covering it than feels fair. And so I think that was a nice reminder that we need to check in on this. Like the podcast has prompted those conversations, but that maybe every couple months it's good to just check in, that everybody feels like, it's being fairly distributed.
- [36:04]
A
Just so I'm clear on that. When you guys are going out to dinner, Robbie, you're the one putting down your card more often. Is that right?
- [36:09]
G
Yeah, that's kind of what we discussed last night. But there's some variables around that. So that's the overall theme, I guess.
- [36:20]
B
And I'm curious about. I know everyone has different values around how to split finances, but have both of you always been 50, 50 people? And, like, why do you decide that you want to do 50 50?
- [36:31]
F
We don't have traditional roles. Might be a way of phrasing it. We like the idea that we're both kind of equal partners. And I think, again, definitely the fact that we make the same money has just kind of inspired wanting to split things 50, 50. I think. Yeah. It's only the difference in timeline that has maybe prompted some thoughts into switching.
- [36:54]
A
That up a little bit. Yeah, I think you guys are in a situation where because of the numbers you're working with, you're able to really live your values around being 50, 50. In this way, there could be a future state where one of you is making significantly more than the other. How would you change this dynamic in that case? Would you try to have it be an equitable representative split based on income, or would you still like to have 50 50?
- [37:16]
G
The last six months has been a struggle, I would say, for Claire from an employment standpoint and the comfort level there. So I guess it's probably been something in the back of the. Our minds. So, you know, if she were to lose her job, I don't. I don't. Personally, I don't feel like it would be fair for her to still have to, like, pay rent or whatever. But that. That's something we would have to discuss, I think, if, unfortunately, that were to happen.
- [37:52]
F
And it's definitely part of why I bolstered the rainy day fund, because I work in tech, and there's just kind of a constant threat of layoffs, I guess. Felt like six months maybe didn't feel secure enough that I wanted to make sure there was a little bit more in there.
- [38:05]
A
With the way the job market is at this current moment, it's taking people quite a while to find jobs. So typically we would say you actually might not want more than six months in your emergency fund, given that you guys are both gainfully employed. But I think it's actually pretty smart to be conservative, given where we are right now.
- [38:23]
B
We have discussed so many different topics. Do you guys have any other questions?
- [38:27]
F
You know, we're trying to plan for the ideal scenario where everything works out. But it has crossed my mind, and it's something we've talked about, that in the event that this wasn't to work out long term, I want to make sure that I am not, you know, risking my comfortable retirement in order to coordinate our savings. So I'm wondering if there's anything I might consider or as far as, you know, maybe when I stop saving or exit the workforce to make sure that I'm not retiring earlier than I would necessary while still making sure that we spend as much time together in retirement as possible. If it were to work out, to.
- [39:12]
A
Me, the solution would be keeping one, maybe two coals in the fire, employment wise, so that way you can have a steady stream of income. Maybe you're doing 10, 15, 20 hours a week, depending on what you feel like you want to do and how much you enjoy the work. But you're giving yourself the flexibility to not have to be checking into a job 9 to 5, Monday through Friday, and then you could actually maybe pivot more into doing different hours if you end up needing that income at some point. So just keeping your options open was a smart thing to do.
- [39:42]
B
And also maybe factoring in individually, I know you're planning retirement together, but your own retirement number and what number you would be comfortable stopping at so that if things didn't work out, knock on wood, because we want y' all to be together forever, but, you know, so that you would have a comfortable nest egg for yourself if you happen. Be single, creep.
- [40:00]
A
Something else I want to mention here is life insurance. Do you guys have life insurance?
- [40:05]
G
No, I do through work. I believe it's three times my salary, so.
- [40:12]
A
Oh, okay. I mentioned this because it's very important for couples in your situation with your age gap to have life insurance. Because, Claire, you're likely going to live longer than Robbie. Sorry to bring up death in this conversation here, but that's just the fact of life. Right. So you want to ensure that, Claire, you would have enough resources to help you through the years where you. You might not have Robbie around, which, you know, it's sad to think about, but also it's great to be prepared and have that base covered.
- [40:39]
G
That's part of why we wanted to have this conversation, because she's going to have a much longer time retired. So we need to work together to get to a point where we feel comfortable to where we potentially both can retire.
- [40:55]
A
Yeah. And something like a term life insurance policy probably wouldn't be that Expensive for either of you to have. And you could structure it so you have enough to maybe cover the rest of your mortgage. Robbie.
- [41:05]
B
Another thing I want to bring up relating to life insurance is estate planning. Have you thought about estate planning documents? And I think something that people sometimes confuse is they think that you have to be married to kind of plan these things with your partner, but you don't. So estate planning usually contains many different documents, but some of the most important are will. Some people may do a trust to help you avoid probate. You also have your, you know, power of attorneys. All these documents just ensure, you know, heavens forbid, one of you is incapacitated and cannot make financial or healthcare decisions, the other person can do it on your behalf. And since you guys are already planning your finances together, I think that would be something really important to consider. And I know nobody wants to think about, you know, getting sick or dying, but it also can be such a loving thing to do so that if you are in that situation, your partner is not scrambling and trying to think about what to do. And also so that you guys have the power to make decisions on each other's behalf if that does happen.
- [42:01]
G
Yeah, that's a good reminder because I'm. I am going to live much longer than her.
- [42:06]
B
I love it. Competing for who's going to live the longest.
- [42:09]
A
Hey, you guys are runners, so you're going to be healthy.
- [42:12]
B
Exactly.
- [42:12]
A
I'm a runner, too, so I get it. We'll be living forever. One quick thing I will recommend, and it's much easier than actually getting an estate plan in place, which you should still do, is if you want to, making each other beneficiaries of your accounts, like your investment accounts, your bank accounts. That way, if something does happen, you don't even have to go through probate. Your assets are just going to one another. It's really simple. You log into your account portals, you set your beneficiary. It can take 10 minutes to do.
- [42:36]
B
Okay, I just want to take a moment out to commend you guys on the mature conversation that you are having and the detail that you're going into the vulnerability, especially after dating for a year. Like, it's just very commendable how transparent you guys are with one another and that you're able to come and talk about all these things.
- [42:55]
G
Yeah, thank you so much.
- [42:56]
A
It's been clear in talking to you guys that you love each other a lot and you want the best for each other and for your life together. And having all of your finances sorted out is a kind of technical, but sort of romantic gift to give each other to because you're making it so you can have the life you want together. It all comes back to having your finances sorted. Great. Well, Robbie, Claire, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us today.
- [43:18]
F
Thanks for having us.
- [43:19]
B
And please, please, please keep us updated. We would love to hear from you. Tell us what happens a year from now if you get married. Invite us. You know, all the things.
- [43:27]
A
Yes, we would love to attend. I mean, Elizabeth is just down the road, so. Well, Robbie and Claire, let's have you guys take us out.
- [43:35]
G
All right, if you want the nerds to answer your money question, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-Nerd.
- [43:50]
F
Or you could email your question like I did to podcasterdwallet.com or leave a comment on Spotify or YouTube.
- [43:57]
B
We want you to follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app. That might be iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple Podcasts to automatically download new episodes.
- [44:06]
A
Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.
- [44:16]
B
And this episode was produced by the best team ever. We have Tess Figland, Hilary Georgie, who help with editing. Nick Karisa, me and Eve Krogman mix our audio and video. And we want to give a huge thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all the ways they help us.
- [44:31]
A
And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.
- [44:39]
G
Tech moves fast, so keep pace with.
- [44:43]
A
The Daily Crunch podcast from Tech Crunch. With new episodes every day, this podcast will give you a quick overview on everything you need and should know about startups, new tech regulations, and more. Listen to TechCrunch Daily Crunch now. Wherever you get your podcasts, that's TechCrunch Daily Crunch. Wherever you get your podcasts.