NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Episode Title: Stop Overpaying With Miles: The Redemption Rules Smart Travelers Use in 2025
Date: September 29, 2025
Hosts: Megan Coyle, Sally French
Guest Expert: Craig Joseph (NerdWallet travel data analyst)
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into getting the best value from travel points and airline miles—helping listeners stop overpaying and start maximizing their hard-earned rewards in 2025. The hosts and guest Craig Joseph unveil the latest findings from NerdWallet’s annual points and miles valuation study, break down the principles behind what makes a redemption "good," and share actionable strategies for using points, credit card rewards, and loyalty program quirks to unlock travel savings. The conversation also covers trending news in airline partnerships and devaluations, optimizing premium cabin bookings, hotel point programs, and smart travel “hacks” to squeeze even more from your rewards.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Recent Airline & Credit Card Points News
00:27–09:50
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New Southwest International Partner:
Southwest adds EVA Air (Taiwan) as its third new international airline partner this year, joining Icelandair and China Airlines.- Convenience: "You don't have to recheck a bag... flights are on the same itinerary, so you’ll get more help if you miss a connection." — Megan (03:31)
- Booking Limitation: Not yet searchable on Southwest’s own website—must use Expedia or EVA Air’s site.
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Frontier Airlines Promotions:
- Lower spending thresholds for earning companion certificates with the Frontier Airlines World Mastercard (e.g., $3,000 spend by Jan 31, 2026, for one certificate).
- Offering a $69 status match to elite flyers from Southwest (Rapid Rewards), JetBlue, Spirit, or Atmos Rewards (formerly Alaska Mileage Plan), but with several fees attached.
- Caveat: “Frontier has so many random fees. Just make sure you know what you are in for before booking.” — Sally (06:18)
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JetBlue Partners & Condor Award Booking:
- JetBlue points now usable to book flights on German airline Condor—including business class from NYC to Frankfurt for 54,000 points one way.
- “I toured a Condor airplane at LAX... super impressed with the business class. Lie-flat, massive 4K screen.” — Megan (07:15)
- JetBlue is a transfer partner for most major credit card points programs, but pay attention to transfer ratios (e.g., Amex and CapOne are less favorable than Chase or Citi).
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Citi Points – New AA Transferability:
- Holders of Citi’s no-annual-fee cards (Strata, Double Cash, Custom Cash) can now transfer points to American Airlines at a 1:0.7 ratio — not as good as the 1:1 ratio available with the $95 Strata Premier.
- “If you have the option, use a Citi card with an annual fee for a better transfer ratio.” — Megan (08:38)
2. NerdWallet’s Points & Miles Valuation Study: How and Why
09:50–17:13
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Defining Value:
Craig compares airline miles and hotel points to “monopoly money.” Their value is not fixed but can be estimated by comparing the cash price of the travel option to the required points.- “If my United miles get me 1.6c/point... and our median is 1.2c, that’s a pretty decent value.” — Craig (11:20)
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Why Medians Matter:
- NerdWallet uses median values across huge data sets to reflect what an average traveler can expect, steering clear of inflated or misleading marketing values.
- The median approach avoids outliers and produces fair, real-world benchmarks.
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Use Cases for Valuations:
- Compare loyalty programs (e.g., Hyatt vs. Hilton)
- Evaluate credit card signup bonuses (“100,000 Alaska miles at 1.2c/mile = $1,200 value”)
- Decide between transferring credit card points vs. redeeming via a portal
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Factoring in Fees:
British Airways is infamous for heavy surcharges on award flights via London, often making Avios redemptions less attractive than competing carriers despite “good” points prices.
3. Points Valuation Strategies for Smart Travelers
17:13–26:50
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The Science of Redemption:
- “You can do that math yourself, or stick the numbers into our [NerdWallet] calculator.” — Megan (15:59)
- Other outlets inflate values by focusing only on luxury awards; NerdWallet bases their values mainly on economy, widely available flights/hotels.
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Credit Card Points: Key Takeaways
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Chase Ultimate Rewards: Most value comes from transferring to Hyatt (1.8c/point).
- “That’s exactly how I tend to use all my Chase points.” — Craig (19:33)
- Points Boost (travel portal bonuses) now applies mostly to United premium seats and is rare: "Only around 3% of flights had an economy option with Points Boost." — Craig (21:46)
- Baseline value via the portal has dropped to 1c/point; higher values are mostly gone post-devaluation.
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Amex Membership Rewards: Value peaks at 1.4c/point via ANA or Virgin Atlantic, favoring international travelers willing to learn foreign alliance nuances.
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Capital One & Citi:
- Both have Avianca LifeMiles as top partners (1.6c/point).
- Uniquely, Citi lets you transfer to AA (1.3c/point), a big advantage for domestic flyers.
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Bilt: Currently the only program supporting Alaska Airlines transfers; Bilt and Chase points are both valued at 1.8c due to their Hyatt partnership.
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4. Hotels and Airlines: How Their Points Stack Up
26:50–30:10
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Hotel Points:
- Hyatt far outpaces rivals, at 1.8c/point — “It’s not even close.” — Craig (27:15)
- Hilton points are the least valuable (0.4c/point), but are easier to earn and redeem in larger numbers.
- Marriott, Choice, Wyndham, IHG fall into a 0.6–0.8c/point range.
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Airline Points:
- No huge standouts domestically — JetBlue leads with 1.4c, closely followed by American (1.3c), Southwest (1.3c), United (1.2c).
- Internationally, ANA provides exceptional value (for Japan routes), and Virgin Atlantic is great for transatlantic trips.
5. Premium Cabin Redemptions: Outsized Value Potential
30:10–32:08
- Booking business or first class often yields far better per-point values than economy.
- Example: “60,000 Alaska points for business class on Finnair from Chicago to Amsterdam with a free stopover — would have cost $5,000 in cash, so about 9c/point!” — Craig (31:28)
- Always weigh the opportunity cost: "Would you rather conserve points and fly economy, or splurge for a blueberry juice-fueled luxury in the front cabin?" — Craig (31:50)
6. Devaluations, Dynamic Pricing & Redemption Timing
32:08–37:54
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Devaluations:
- Chase travel portal is now a less attractive use for points (1c/point baseline).
- Southwest points’ value has slowly fallen — "a few years ago, 1.6c, now 1.3c." — Craig (32:28)
- Domestic airline award values have converged, American Airlines miles aren’t as rewarding as before.
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Dynamic Pricing Impacts:
- Points’ value can swing with demand. Low-demand flights may still yield great redemptions.
- Example: “I got 3c/point on American for a random weekend in Nashville — caught it before the algorithm repriced the reward.” — Megan (34:25)
- Close-in bookings (last 15 days): On average, points are worth about 20% more when booking close to departure, since airlines lower award prices to fill seats.
7. Practical Tips and Hot Takes
37:54–41:56
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Redemption Hack:
- Book early with points for peace of mind; check back as departure nears, and rebook if points price drops (be sure your program redeposits points quickly if you need to cancel).
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Value of Cash vs. Points:
- “Never underestimate the freedom and flexibility that holding on to cash has. Points are arbitrary.” — Craig (38:44)
- If you’re cash-poor, don’t hoard points—use them, even if the per-point value isn’t optimal.
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Airport Lounges Overrated?
- Hot Take (Craig):
- “The majority of airport lounges are vastly overrated. Overcrowded, mediocre food, questionable cleanliness. I’d rather pay for a restaurant meal and find a quiet corner to eat.” (39:42)
- “My days of arm wrestling someone for cheese cubes in line at the Priority Pass Lounge are over.” (40:46)
- Megan: “They could just make the airport terminal better instead.”
- Hot Take (Craig):
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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“Effectively, points and miles are monopoly money. They're made-up currency — but you can use them to buy real travel.”
— Craig Joseph, 10:08 -
“When comparing programs, ask: would you rather have less than $400 of United miles, or a $650 flight credit? Do the math!”
— Megan Coyle, 01:23 -
“British Airways often offers fantastic headline points rates, but to fly through Heathrow you pay such high fees it’s almost never worth it.”
— Craig Joseph, 14:15 -
“If you have enough Hilton points to book a run-of-the-mill Hilton in Seoul, it might be 210,000 points — for a Hyatt luxury hotel, it’d be just 40,000.”
— Megan Coyle, 20:10 -
“I'll take the blueberry juice over champagne any day!”
— Megan Coyle, 32:02 -
“Valuations are a great tool, but never underestimate the freedom and flexibility that holding on to cash has.”
— Craig Joseph, 38:47 -
“Airport lounges are mostly overrated — I’d rather find a restaurant, take my food to a quiet corner, and skip the scramble for cheese cubes.”
— Craig Joseph, 39:42
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Airline & Credit Card News: 00:27–09:50
- How Points/Miles Value is Calculated: 09:50–17:13
- Best Use Strategies for Points: 17:13–26:50
- Hotel & Airline Program Valuations: 26:50–30:10
- Premium Cabin Value: 30:10–32:08
- Devaluation & Dynamic Pricing: 32:08–37:54
- Booking Strategies & Cash vs. Points Philosophy: 37:54–41:56
Conclusion: Actionable Takeaways
- Always compare the real world cash value to the points price before redeeming.
- Use median-centred benchmarks (like those from NerdWallet) to judge if a redemption is “worth it.”
- For credit card rewards, transfer to strategic partners (Hyatt, Avianca, etc.) for the biggest bang for your buck.
- Don’t blindly hoard points—use them flexibly, especially when cash is tight or the redemption is unusually valuable (premium cabins, close-in flights).
- Watch for shifting ratios and transfer rules among banks and airlines.
- Be wary of the “airport lounge hype” — prioritize your own comfort and value over free cheese cubes.
For calculators, detailed data, and latest program offer links, check NerdWallet’s site and the episode description.