NerdWallet’s Smart Money Podcast

Episode Title: Untangle Your Relationship with Money for Better Mental, Emotional, and Financial Well-Being
Release Date: December 22, 2025
Hosts: Sean Pyles, CFP® & Elizabeth Ayola
Guests: Kim Palmer (NerdWallet Writer), Asia Evans (Financial Therapist & Author), Bree (Listener)

Overview:

This episode delves into the emotional and psychological side of personal finance. The hosts discuss strategies for coping with money-related shame, the importance of open communication about finances, and how to untangle deep-rooted financial stress. It features an interview with Asia Evans, a financial therapist and author of “Feel Good Finance,” and segues into real-life advice for a listener coping with job loss, focusing on practical steps for financial and emotional stability in times of uncertainty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Money & Emotional Well-Being: Breaking the Taboo

[04:01–05:38]

• Asia Evans highlights that people often feel badly about money largely due to a widespread social taboo: “It feels like such a secret that isn’t supposed to be spoken about... Don’t ask about other people’s salary... how people afford the things that they afford.” (Asia Evans, 04:09)
• Cultural backgrounds play a role—with particular mention of how the Black community may particularly be taught to keep money conversations within the immediate family.

Actionable Insight:

• Start normalizing conversations about money with trusted people. Practice helps lessen discomfort: “You may not have [comfort] right away. So practicing is going to be really important with people that you trust.” (Asia Evans, 05:38)

2. Working Through Financial Stress & Trauma

[07:25–10:37]

• Evans describes her book as a self-guided therapy session. She encourages vulnerability in confronting past financial struggles and giving oneself permission to acknowledge the pain.
• The process starts with “labeling the emotion” without feeling disloyal to parents or upbringing: “I need you to check your respect for your parents at the door because it’s hindering your ability to just label your feelings.” (Asia Evans, 09:14)
• Recognize and sit with emotions, then develop strategies for coping and behavior change.

3. Why We Spend: Dopamine & Coping Mechanisms

[10:37–12:19]

• Evans explains “retail therapy”: The excitement (dopamine hit) comes from the anticipation and the act of shopping, often used to cope with other feelings or to reinforce an aspect of identity.

• Advises developing a “dopamine menu” of non-spending activities for mood-boosting.

  “Trying to buy your way out of the feeling... and again, the dopamine does work—it just doesn’t last long.” (Asia Evans, 11:47)

4. Financial To-Dos for Mental Well-Being

[12:19–13:16]

• Learn financial basics and take actionable steps—most notably, Evans urges everyone:

  “Move your money into a high-yield savings... please do not leave your savings in just a regular savings account.” (Asia Evans, 12:45)

• Don’t fear your feelings about money—they’re a guide, not an obstacle.

5. You’re Not Alone in Financial Struggles

[13:21–13:39]

• Closing encouragement from Evans:

  “Even if you feel the most shameful, you feel like you’ll never get out of it—you are not alone. It is possible. It’s gonna be hard... and please talk about your money with people that you feel close to.” (Asia Evans, 13:21)

Listener Money Question: Navigating Job Loss

[16:02–38:18]
Listener Bree from Chicago shares her recent job loss, concerns about health insurance, budgeting, and emotional stress.

A. Response to Job Loss & Emergency Planning

[16:07–18:10]

• Bree has a 4–6 month emergency fund due to prior financial discipline and was already preparing for an international move.

• Main stresses: expensive COBRA insurance ($971/month versus $2600/month total expenses), uncertainty of job search timeline.

  “That’s the benefit of having an emergency fund... now you’re able to use it to help you right now.” (Sean Pyles, 17:06)

B. Emotional Impact and Processing

[18:29–20:20]

• Bree felt blindsided by the layoff and is working through the emotional aftermath—including confusion, anger, and hope.

  “It’s important to sit with that and process all of your emotions and realize that you’re going through the various stages of grief.” (Sean Pyles, 19:36)

C. Job Search, Remote Work, and Financial Options

[20:20–22:51]

• Bree is prioritizing finding remote work to continue her personal goals, but is aware she may need to compromise.

• She’s open to various last-resort options (personal loan, tapping retirement), but wants guidance on priorities.

  “Getting some kind of income stream should be the priority... it can take almost that long to get hired.” (Sean Pyles, 22:51)

D. Unemployment Benefits, Part-time Work, and Freelancing

[22:51–24:40]

• Navigating the impact of part-time or freelance work on unemployment benefits.
• Hesitant about freelance instability; would prefer local, in-person steady work if needed.

E. Support Networks & Social Boundaries

[25:33–26:25]

• Bree set a $20/week socializing budget and communicated this boundary to friends.

• Acknowledges the power of a supportive network during difficult times.

  “It takes a lot of courage to tell people, this is what my budget is, and I don’t want to go over it. So good job to you.” (Elizabeth Ayola, 26:14)

F. Health Insurance Choices: COBRA vs. Marketplace

[26:26–28:53]

• Bree’s challenge: She’s in a holding pattern awaiting Medicaid determination through Marketplace but feels COBRA (at $971) is prohibitively expensive.
• Advised to follow up proactively with the state and carefully analyze the trade-offs in coverage with Marketplace vs. COBRA.

G. Budgeting, Spending Triggers & Structure

[28:53–31:37]

• Bree proactively made a list of free/cheap activities to replace travel and eating out.

• Uses reward-based goals in her job search to provide structure and motivation: early rewards are free, later ones include small purchases.

  “You are building infrastructure for yourself to have a full life.” (Sean Pyles, 31:05)

H. Emergency Fund Replenishment Planning

[31:41–33:03]

• Bree asks the best way to rebuild savings once re-employed.

  • NerdWallet’s advice: Use the 50/30/20 budgeting framework (50% needs, 30% wants, 20% savings/debt).
  • Direct deposit into high-yield savings simplifies rebuilding.

  “It just can be a reminder to be kind to yourself and remember that’s what the emergency savings is there for— to use in the case of an emergency.” (Elizabeth Ayola, 32:53)

I. Retirement: Avoiding Early Withdrawals & Account Management

[33:04–37:42]

• Bree learned from past mistakes and sees cashing out retirement as a last resort.

• Advice: Roll over old 401(k)s into a single IRA if that offers better options/lower fees, and avoid scattering retirement funds across multiple accounts.

  • Check for possible involuntary cash outs by the old employer (often when balances < $5,000).

  “As you get closer to retirement, it’s going to be the easiest way to manage what you have saved up is to have it in one, two, maybe three places.” (Sean Pyles, 37:20)

J. Feeling Supported and Planning Ahead

[37:54–38:18]

• Bree feels reassured after advice and is ready to focus on her job search with renewed energy and less financial anxiety.

Notable Quotes & Standout Moments

• “Practice maybe not makes perfect, but makes you a little bit more confident.”
  – Asia Evans, on negotiating money topics (07:13)
• “Trying to buy your way out of the feeling... the dopamine does work, it just doesn’t last long.”
  – Asia Evans, on retail therapy (11:50)
• “You do not need to be afraid of your feelings that come up with money. You will be OK. But you can’t be OK unless you understand what those feelings are.”
  – Asia Evans, (12:58)
• “It takes a lot of courage to tell people, this is what my budget is, and I don’t want to go over it. So good job to you.”
  – Elizabeth Ayola to Bree (26:14)
• “Just gradually, with time, build [emergency savings] back up, and before you know it, you’ll be back in the spot you want to be.”
  – Elizabeth Ayola (32:58)
• “I still am not at the place where I need to be at my age to have the retirement that I want. The gap isn’t so large that I’m freaking out... It feels very doable.”
  – Bree (34:19)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:01 – Evans on why money feels taboo
• 05:38 – How to practice money conversations and build financial confidence
• 07:25 – Working through financial stress & trauma
• 10:37 – Why spending triggers dopamine; alternative coping
• 12:39 – Evans’ essential “feel good finance” action steps
• 13:21 – Encouragement: You’re not alone in money shame
• 16:07 – Listener Bree’s situation: Coping after job loss
• 18:29 – Emotional aftermath and optimism
• 20:20 – Job search tactics: Remote/permanent work tradeoffs
• 25:33 – Socializing and setting budget boundaries with friends
• 26:43 – Navigating COBRA vs. Marketplace insurance post-job-loss
• 28:53 – Budgeting, triggers, and building structure during unemployment
• 31:41 – Rebuilding emergency funds with the 50/30/20 rule
• 34:34 – Retirement mistakes and rollover best practices

Takeaways & Action Steps

• Talk openly about money—practicing with those you trust makes it easier.
• Give yourself permission to label and sit with difficult financial emotions.
• Build a non-spending dopamine menu to manage emotional spending.
• Use high-yield savings to maximize your emergency funds.
• After a job loss, prioritize finding some income and monitor job search duration; use unemployment benefits and avoid early retirement withdrawals if possible.
• Communicate spending boundaries clearly with your social network for support.
• Use structured rewards to maintain motivation during life transitions.
• When re-employed, replenish savings methodically; leverage direct deposit and budgeting systems.

Episode Tone:
Supportive, practical, empathetic, and encouraging—offering both actionable money strategies and psychological insight.

For listener questions:
Call/text 901-730-6373 or email podcast@nerdwallet.com