Watch the Nerds Sweat It Out: Hot Wings Meet Hot Money Takes (Video Episode)

Summary

NerdWallet Smart Money Podcast

Episode: Watch the Nerds Sweat It Out: Hot Wings Meet Hot Money Takes (Video Episode)

Date: October 6, 2025
Hosts: Sean Pyles, CFP®; Elizabeth Ayoola
Guest: Stephen Smith (YouTube creator for NerdWallet)
Special Segment Guest: Sandra (Listener from Scottsdale, Arizona)

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Episode Overview

In this unique, high-energy episode, the Smart Money team trades their usual studio banter for a roundtable of “hot takes” on personal finance—each paired with increasingly spicy hot sauces on wings (or celery, for the non-meat eaters). Host Sean Pyles, co-host Elizabeth Ayoola, and guest Stephen Smith dig into controversial and nuanced money topics, challenging standard wisdom on saving, debt, investing, and structural issues in personal finance.

The second half features a listener Q&A with Sandra from Scottsdale, AZ, focusing on the cost-benefit analysis of repairing her long-running car versus buying a new electric vehicle. Throughout, the Nerds provide actionable advice, share personal anecdotes, and keep the conversation lively—even as the heat rises.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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Spicy Hot Takes & Money Debates (02:15 - 23:58)

The Format:

• Five rounds of increasingly spicy hot sauce: Each host/guest presents a “hot take” on money, tied to the sauce’s heat level.
• Mix of lighthearted banter, serious finance opinions, and occasionally literal tears.

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Round 1: “Saving is a Myth”

Green Jalapeño Sauce

• Stephen's Hot Take: “I do not believe that there is a such thing as saving. Saving money is a myth.” (01:51)
  • His logic: Long-term inflation outpaces savings, especially if you’re only using low-yield/checking accounts.
  • “If you were to just keep saving, saving, saving, eventually you would save yourself into oblivion. At some point you have to invest and make more money than what the rate of inflation is.” (03:33)
• Nerd response: High-yield savings accounts now can outpace inflation, but investing is ultimately necessary for long-term growth.

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Round 2: “Take Control Over Your Money”

Serious Bone Sucking Honey & Habanero Sauce

• Sean's Hot Take: “Most people struggle with what they want in life because they view money as something that happens to them versus something that they have control over.” (06:27)
  • “A lot of folks just view their paycheck as what kind of is bestowed upon them, and they don't really have a lot of intentionality about where it's going. And that's a huge mistake.” (06:27)
• Elizabeth and Stephen agree: Many are taught only to consume, never to invest; lack of financial education perpetuates the problem.
• Elizabeth: “Gotta blame capitalism for that.” (07:33)

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Round 3: “Every Child Needs a Custodian Account—But Only If…”

Mango Habanero Hot Sauce

• Elizabeth's Hot Take: “Every child should be born with a custodian account with a certain amount of money in it, and they should not be allowed to withdraw that money until they take a financial education course.” (08:01)
  • Points out the importance of financial education over mere inheritance.
• Sean connects to “Trump accounts” (recent policy deposit for newborns) but notes real world limitations.
• Stephen relates: “I personally have a trust for my son. I do not believe children … can handle large amounts of money unless they got that financial education from when they were younger and just have really good impulse control.” (08:53)
• Elizabeth: “If you pass the education and still blow the money, that’s on you. We can't blame the government.” (09:37)

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Round 4: “The US Dollar Will Be Backed by Crypto”

Lucifer’s Last Blast Sauce

• Stephen's Hot Take: “In the next, let's say, I'll do 15 years … if the dollar is still present, I believe it's going to be backed by cryptocurrency.” (11:13)
  • Cites trends around national reserves and Bitcoin’s increasing value versus USD.
  • “It might actually be the thing that can solve our issues with inflation.” (12:09)
• Nerd response: Cautious and slightly skeptical. “For Smart Money, we need to call an economist.” (12:15)
• Physical reactions abound: “Elizabeth is lightly shaking.” (15:26) – the sauces are doing their job.

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Round 5: “It’s Too Easy to Get Into Consumer Debt”

Fervor, with Reaper Chili (Scoville: 2.2 million)

• Sean's Hot Take: “It's entirely too easy to get into consumer debt in this country.” (18:16)
  • Example: After bankruptcy, people get a flood of credit card offers; “We're encouraged to use Klarna at Chipotle nowadays—it’s just ridiculous.” (18:48)
• Stephen: Sees a problem with financing necessities like gas—shows how outpaced incomes have become.
• Elizabeth, with nuance: Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) can be useful for budgeting if used responsibly, and now will soon affect credit scores. “It's a tool that you can use… for people who have a handle on budgeting and are not prone to impulse spending.” (20:26)
• Sean: “Debt is just a tool, but it’s so accessible that it’s easy for a lot of people to get in over their heads.” (20:28)

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Bonus/Final Bites: True Financial “Hot Takes”

• Elizabeth: “I think people should blow up their budget at least once in their life. Especially people who are penny pinchers—spend a dollar, okay. Or spend a hundred … money is there to be spent… sometimes we’re doing everything perfectly. Sometimes we’re not.” (22:26)
• Sean: “Blow up your budget like you’re blowing up your digestive system with this hot hot sauce.” (23:12)
• Stephen: “Money is a construct. It's not real. The only thing that has value is labor. People are valuable, and that's it… we all just are agreeing to the same lie.” (23:30)

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Listener Q&A: Repair the Car or Buy an EV? (25:00 - 43:43)

Listener: Sandra from Scottsdale, AZ

Sandra’s Scenario (27:00):

• 9-year-old Acura MDX, 92,000 miles, excellent shape.
• $2,700 in suggested “milestone” repairs.
• Wants to buy an EV eventually, has solar at home, could offset gas costs.
• Unsure about timing: keep repairing or trade in now vs. opportunity costs like tariffs/inflation.
• Considers leveraging high-yield savings for a cash purchase, but wonders about interest rates and possible deals.

Expert Analysis & Key Advice:

• Sean: “The average lifespan of an Acura MDX is around 250,000 miles. That means it would take you 17 more years to actually hit that point.”
• Rule of Thumb: If repair costs outweigh the car’s value, or if monthly maintenance > new car payment, consider upgrading.
• Maintenance: A few thousand in repairs can be less than a handful of car payments (average new car payment: $750/month, July 2025).
• Elizabeth: Highlights value of liquidity and saving toward other priorities (retirement, kids’ education).
• Refinancing: If you can get ¾ of a percent off your mortgage APR, consider it; break-even matters due to up-front closing costs.
• 529 Plan News: Recent changes mean unused 529 funds can be rolled into a Roth IRA for a child’s retirement—more flexibility for education savings.
• Investing for “Car Replacement”: Since Sandra’s planning 8+ years ahead for her child to inherit the car, investing extra cash may make sense.

Memorable Quotes:

• Sandra: “I really want to feel financially secure, and that is the most important thing to me, which is probably why I'm not that person that likes to get new cars all the time.” (38:22)
• Elizabeth: “There’s sometimes a lot of shame around wanting new and shiny…if you can afford it and it’s not wrecking your finances, money is there to bring you joy.” (39:25)
• Sean: “I just paid off my car, and the idea of going back to having some debt hanging over me, it doesn’t feel great.” (39:06)

Key Conclusion / Personalization:

• Sandra leans toward “driving it into the ground” or passing the Acura to her daughter. (43:01)
  • “I think I'm leaning towards running it in the ground or passing it over to [my daughter].”
• Nerds validate both emotional (“wanting new”) and practical (“financial security”) angles, suggesting Sandra is in an enviable, flexible position.

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Notable, Memorable, and Humorous Moments

• “Don't say Elizabeth told you to go spend all your money. …Or maybe I did just say that. Maybe it’s the hot sauce talking. I don't know.” —Elizabeth, on her "blow up your budget" hot take (22:26)
• “Are your feet supposed to start tingling?” —Elizabeth, after eating one of the hotter sauces (18:11)
• “I wear sunscreen and I’m Black. So you can imagine how hot that must be.” —Stephen, discussing living in Vegas and handling spicy food (14:36)
• “Lucifer is in the building.” —Sean, after the spiciest sauce hits Elizabeth extra hard (22:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:51] - The “Saving is a Myth” hot take
• [06:27] - “Money happens to you” vs. intentionality debate
• [08:01] - The case for children’s custodial accounts post-financial education
• [11:13] - “The USD will be backed by crypto” prediction
• [18:16] - “It’s too easy to get into debt” take
• [22:26] - “Blow up your budget” philosophy
• [23:30] - “Money is a construct” existential hot take
• [27:00] - Sandra introduces her car dilemma
• [32:03] - Car lifespan, mileage, and saving vs. new purchase calculations
• [35:23] - 529 plan flexibility discussion (rolling into Roth IRA)
• [38:22] - Sandra reflects on her conservative money approach
• [43:01] - Sandra’s decision: keep/hand down the car

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Tone & Style

• Fun, playful, and warmly conversational—with moments of introspective seriousness on finance.
• The hosts ~embrace personal stories~ and honest assessments as they sweat through the sauces, making complex financial ideas feel accessible and engaging.

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Actionable Takeaways

• High-yield savings are a useful hedge against inflation, but investing is essential for real growth.
• Financial education—especially from a young age—empowers smart, confident money decisions.
• Intentionality: Know your goals; treat money as a tool, not as something that “happens” to you.
• Debt is just a tool, but be cautious: extreme accessibility can lead to dangerous spirals.
• Car buying decisions must balance practical, financial, and psychological needs. There’s no universal “right” answer.
• 529 accounts are now more flexible for those unsure of their child’s post-high-school path.

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For Next Time

• More Q&A: “How to set your child up for financial success.”

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To Submit Your Questions:

• Call/text: 901-730-6373
• Email: [e-mail]

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This summary is presented in the spirit of the original tone: warm, nerdy, and a little spicy—just like the episode.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

And thank you for your support as always.

[C]

I do not believe that there is a such thing as saving. Saving money is a myth.

[B]

Yeah, say more.

[A]

Don't say Elizabeth told you to go spend all your money. I'm not telling you to go and spend all your money at the mall today. Or maybe I did just say that. Maybe it's the hot sauce talking. I don't know.

[C]

And I think it might actually be the thing that can solve our issues with inflation. There we go.

[B]

On Smart Money. We love to give you our spicy financial takes and Today we're getting it extra hot, doing our very first round of our hot takes and hot wings. I'm your host, Sean Pyles, joined by my co host Elizabeth Aola, and we have Stephen Smith, a YouTube creator for Nerd Wallet. So we're going to have some hot wings here and give you our takes about all things money, and hopefully we don't sweat too much. Let's do it.

[C]

All right, and thank you guys for having me. Definitely going to start this off. And we'll be starting with the green jalapeno sauce, and that's going to be our number one. Okay, so let's take a look at this.

[B]

I have celery because I'm not a chicken eater at the moment. So let's see how hot sauce on celery goes.

[C]

Nice amount on this one.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Number one. So.

[A]

So are we. Are we making this fair? Do we have to pour the same amount of sauce on each chicken?

[C]

I think you can diy, yeah. Okay, let me just actually roll it here.

[B]

Go for it.

[C]

We can make sure.

[B]

Yeah, we're all gonna try a good amount.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What are you getting notes of?

[C]

Definitely a lot of jalapeno. Oh, here you go. It is very mild. Okay, I will say that. So I'm gonna go light with this take. I do not believe that there's a such thing as saving money. I think saving money is a myth.

[B]

Yeah, say more.

[C]

Well, with the rate of inflation right now, it is impossible for you to save money long term because it's being printed faster than you can make it. So if you were to just keep saving, saving, saving, eventually you would save yourself into oblivion. At some point, you have to invest and make more money than what the rate of inflation is.

[B]

That's why we often encourage folks to use high yield savings accounts, because right now the yield is better than that of the rate of inflation. So that is one way to say ahead of inflation. Although of course, investing is most. Most folks best way to stay out of inflation.

[A]

So. So are you saying then that you feel like specifically saving in a checking account doesn't exist? Like, that's.

[C]

That's a horrible idea because for a checking, you'll get what, 0.0001%? And at the rate of inflation long term, it's closer to like 8%. So even with a high yield savings account, what. What is it at like 4.9 something?

[B]

You're lucky to get a 4%. But I mean, right now the rate of inflation is like a little over 2%. So if you have a high yield savings account that's around 4%. You are staying ahead if you're using that.

[C]

Historically, though. Like, for example, if you work a 9 to 5 job, you can look at the data as far as how much things cost compared to the salaries. And no matter how you look at it, it's unproportionate.

[B]

You're right that you can't keep that up. Yeah. Inflation is outpacing wage growth, and it has for many years at this point, so things are tough. Okay, well, let's keep this thing moving along. We got a second sauce here.

[A]

So what are we thinking if we had to rank this sauce? I give it a minus zero during the year. Minus zero.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know.

[B]

It tastes really good. I don't want to knock this hot sauce because it's a local one.

[A]

No, it tastes yummy, but not so hot.

[B]

Shout out to Old Pueblo Poblano Mexican Sauces. Thank you for your authentic green jalapeno sauce. This is now a commercial for hot sauce.

[C]

They got a plug.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Stephen, can you pass the second one?

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

We have. We're talking serious bone sucking wing sauce, honey and habanero. Not going on a bone for me. Going on even more celery.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's kind of thick, like barbecue sauce.

[A]

Is this your first time doing celery and hot sauce?

[B]

It actually is, because usually you have celery to counter, like, the hot wings or whatever you're having, so.

[A]

So basically, you're cheating.

[B]

I just don't want to eat chicken. It's kind of gross to me. No offense.

[A]

No, I respect that.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Are you gonna pour it on the side?

[A]

Yeah, I'm doing a little fancy dip over here, you know.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

All right. Here you go.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Okay, I'm getting the honey. I'm getting the habanero. The habanero is kind of building. There's some actual heat to this.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

I love a good barbecue sauce. So let me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Any sweatshirt.

[B]

I'm beginning to sweat a little bit. Okay. A little bit. But this is totally, like, edible. I would eat this with, like, a veggie chicken nugget if I had them now.

[A]

Dad got some spice.

[B]

Okay. Wow. And my hot take for a slightly hotter sauce is going to be. Most people struggle with what they want in life because they view money as something that happens to them versus something that they have control over, versus something that they can take agency over and direct. A lot of folks just view their paycheck as what kind of is bestowed upon them. And they don't really have a lot of intentionality about where it's going. And that's a huge mistake long term in terms of what you want from your life.

[D]

I agree.

[A]

But I feel like most people don't know because nobody's teaching them. You know, that's what we're here for. I know that's what we're here for.

[B]

But I think the basic is what do you want out of your life? That's where you start. And then your money is a tool to accomplish that. People don't think about it in that way. They think money is just what's covering my rent this week or covering the groceries. Not something that you can actually enact in a greater way.

[C]

But the problem is though, when you're trying to work for money, when do you actually have the time to think about how do I actually make more or how do I grow this money? You're just trying to survive.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

So it's kind of a hard thing to think about when this is all that, you know, you've been taught to be a consumer, not an investor.

[A]

Gotta blame capitalism for that. Capitalism, we're talking you. So here we have the mango habanero hot sauce by Heartbreaking Dawns. Very creative name. All right, so while I'm pouring a little sauce, my hot take is that every child should be born with a custodian account with a certain amount of money in it, and they should not be allowed to withdraw that money until they take a financial education course. That's my hot take.

[B]

That would be a nice little safety net.

[A]

It would be.

[B]

And it kind of, kind of reminds me of the Trump accounts that were announced.

[A]

I didn't want to say that.

[B]

Yes, but that's, it's only for a very limited amount of time. It's $1,000 and it's essentially like a retirement account for kids that are born within like a year or so. But there aren't parameters. Excuse me. Spicy.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I don't want to interrupt your digesting of it.

[A]

Just ignore me. Continue.

[B]

No, I, I, I agree with you. I think that people aren't given a lot of financial education. We all know that. We talk about it a lot because we didn't have that growing up.

[C]

But your views on a trust?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh, thank you so much.

[A]

I personally have a trust for my son. I do not believe children or young people whose, whose brains are not fully developed can handle large amounts of money unless they got that financial education from when they were younger and just have really Good impulse control. So I like the idea of you being able to determine the terms of when and how they receive that money. And I know that if I received an inheritance at the age of 20, it'd be all gone now. But if I received it now, now that I'm working and I have the education that I have, I know exactly what I would do with it.

[B]

So you've got that fully developed prefrontal cortex that kicks in when you're around 25.

[C]

So there you go. Now, what happens if they were able to pass your financial literacy course, but they just go ahead and blow the money?

[A]

Then that's on them. We can't blame the government, okay? It's not the government's fault. It's not capitalism fault anymore. That's on you, right? Because you got the education, you got the funds, and you still chose to blow it. So.

[B]

All right, how's that sauce, Elizabeth?

[A]

This is a trickster.

[B]

You were coughing earlier, so it seems like. But you're kind of liking it. You're eating a lot of chicken.

[A]

It's heating up. But I'm Nigerian. We eat real spicy food, so I don't know if y' all are going to beat me. We'll see.

[C]

Two was spicier than three.

[B]

I was going to say the same.

[C]

I think you might switch them.

[B]

Yeah, it's really good. To me, this seems like a good everyday kind of sauce. Yeah. Yeah. I could have it on, like, eggs in the morning on tacos. Pretty versatile. All right, round four. Stephen, kick us off. What's the sauce?

[C]

Round four, we have Lucifer's last blast. And Lucifer has a. If you can see that he has a fireball part.

[B]

So, I mean, I'm assuming that this.

[C]

Is something diarrhea related.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No. Okay, I'm liking this. I think this is gonna be the one. It's gonna break a sweat. Let's see.

[B]

I'm sweating currently. I also need to take off my sweater. Why am I wearing.

[A]

Good idea.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, and it's taking a while to. Yeah, this might.

[B]

It's thick for a blast. Okay. Oh, it blasted. Let's see it blasted.

[C]

Now, this hot take, right? This one is good.

[B]

Spicy.

[C]

This is the one. Okay, well, not really spicy, but it is good.

[B]

Okay, not spicy. What do you mean, not yet?

[C]

It has, like, a little tingle.

[B]

I'm wondering if this is the kind of hot sauce that builds up over time, and then in a minute, you're going to be really sweating and regretting that you said it wasn't spicy.

[C]

I don't know this ain't Lucifer as hot as they said, but we'll. But we'll see. For the hot take, yeah, I believe in the next. Let's say I'll do 15 years our. If the dollar is still present, I believe it's going to be backed by cryptocurrency to tell.

[A]

Why do you think this?

[C]

We already have some plans in effect to make it a reserve. So have a bitcoin reserve. And then I think that if you look at a inverted chart, right, and you look at real estate versus, let's say something like a bitcoin, you can see that right now it takes way more dollars to purchase real estate, but it takes less bitcoin to purchase real estate. So I would just say that it's an asset that is getting really, really huge right now. And I think it might actually be the thing that can solve our issues with inflation.

[A]

Oh, this is a tricky. For smart money, we need to call an economist.

[B]

This is one that we are conservative.

[A]

When it comes to crypto.

[B]

I know, I know. I watched speaking with our producer who was saying that they were speaking with an economist saying that they predict crypto, too.

[C]

There we go.

[B]

I know.

[C]

This will be the one.

[B]

I think that kind of sums it up. That's going to happen to crypto. That's what's going to happen according to many economist predictions.

[A]

What you said. Wow.

[B]

Okay. I just had my first bite of this. So the celery is certainly making everything a lot sweeter, but the physical effects of this, like burning in the back of my throat, are really kicking them.

[C]

I got you.

[B]

You didn't get any of that. I'm from New Orleans, so this is just ketchup to you?

[C]

Basically, I've been eating crawfish my whole life. I'm. I'm solid.

[B]

Elizabeth, your eyes are watering.

[D]

I'm scared of you.

[A]

No reaction.

[B]

Yeah. You were completely unfazed by this.

[C]

I went to Vegas and tried every single hot chicken place that they put in front of me. Ghost, pepper, whatever. It wasn't enough.

[B]

So what do you do? What? I'm. I'm concerned. What I don't know is your digestive system.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Do you take a fiber supplement?

[C]

You know what's crazy, though? I will probably still have the Lucifer later, but right now it hurts. It's.

[B]

Have some more. I want to see how much you can have. We have another wing with the Lucifer.

[C]

I'll save it for the last one. And then after we're done, I'll probably put some on the side. This because the third one's probably my favorite.

[B]

I think I need some more milk. Elizabeth, can you grab. We got some milk right out of frame. You're singing a little song over there. Ow, ow, ow.

[C]

Did your lips do the thing with the.

[A]

Can't talk right now.

[B]

Just speaking through breaths and whispers. Elizabeth's gone non verbal over here.

[C]

I also live in Vegas too. Yeah, it's hot. Hot.

[B]

I don't get how people can live in places like that. The temperature I say is we're in Scottsdale. It's too hot.

[C]

I wear sunscreen and I'm black, so you can imagine how hot that must be.

[B]

Yeah, I'm choking on milk. Yeah. So you're taking precautions. You're saying that you're not impervious to all heat. The heat from the sun is. You don't mess with that. But from hot sauce, you're not phased.

[C]

Hot sauce?

[B]

No, no. Can I get my apple juice, please? I have some apple juice around here. Thank you, Hillary. The Hillary. Georgie, we shout out in the credits. Just passed me some apple juice. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

Production team is great.

[B]

You want to step. This is really helping. Sweet. Yeah, down that wing.

[C]

There you go.

[B]

Elizabeth is lightly shaking.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Is it my turn or your turn?

[B]

I think it's your turn, you know, do you want the honors of doing the spiciest one? What? It's my turn? In that case. Oh, thank you. Shai, our other producer, shy, brought us some dry bagels. We were laughing at these bagels earlier. You said only a baby needs a bagel.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

We're the babies now.

[A]

There's something reviving about the sauce. It just.

[B]

It's exhilarating.

[D]

Goes through your whole is adrenaline rush.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. What's your hot take, Shawn?

[B]

I haven't even gotten to the hot sauce yet. Can you pass it?

[A]

Oh, I did all that. You didn't have it yet?

[B]

No.

[C]

Oh, my God. What's the name of that one?

[B]

This one is called Fervor. It has a reaper chili, which I think is the hottest pepper. If not, it's one of the hottest peppers. If not the hottest. The hottest. Okay, well, 2.2 million on Scoville, my producer tells me. And so, Stephen, I kind of want you to kick this off, but it's my turn to do it. I could. This is the final sauce of the five, and. And we'll see how it goes. I think because this is the last one, we gotta all share our spiciest take. And Elizabeth, you know I wish you the best. Here you go.

[A]

Stephen, you don't mean it.

[B]

I do. I sincerely. I, you know, I look out for you. I let Elizabeth borrow my cardigan earlier because I'm so selfless.

[A]

That was so sweet.

[B]

Oh, I'm not worried. It's fine. Everyone in the background is saying, too much sauce on this. And I say, we're fine. Um, okay, so I kind of wait. I want us all to have it at the same time. Oh, wait. Steven just chomped right in. Well, you need twice as much as us just to get to the baseline.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

You're good. You're good.

[C]

It is good, though, is it? Is good.

[B]

I continue to be really concerned.

[C]

No, I think you guys will really like this one. I think the last one was spicier, honestly.

[B]

Ready, Elizabeth? Three, two, one.

[C]

Right.

[A]

That's milder. I deserve it. I almost died.

[B]

Okay, it's starting. Sweet.

[A]

Wait. Getting a little spicier.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I like it.

[A]

Let's see.

[C]

That one, actually.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Might be my favorite. I think that one is the best one.

[B]

You know, I'm still. I'm liking the mango one the most. But this one, I. I was kind of expecting to be.

[C]

I thought it was gonna.

[B]

Yeah, I was expecting this to really hurt.

[A]

Are your feet supposed to start tingling?

[C]

That's how you know it was good, I think.

[A]

No. Okay.

[B]

Okay. I'm going to give my hot take. And it's also a structural one like you. Like you had earlier, Elizabeth. And it's that it's entirely too easy to get into consumer debt in this country. Everywhere you go, you have debt options thrown at you. In fact, people who file for bankruptcy right after they file for bankruptcy, they are given loads and loads of credit card offers because the credit card companies know that they can't file for bankruptcy for another seven to 10 years. And that puts people into a lot of debt. We're encouraged to use Klarna at Chipotle nowadays is just ridiculous, and I think it makes it too accessible.

[A]

You use Klarna, Chipotle.

[B]

I don't use Klarna, period. But you can use Buy Now, Pay later at Chipotle for food delivery.

[C]

Buy Now, Buy Later.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yes. That's something. And I think we just accept it as a given in how we manage our finances in this country. And it's pretty twisted and puts people in a lot of serious problems, and they can't get out of this debt.

[C]

I think it's a problem when you use that for gas. I've seen that, too. Now, where it's like, you have to Finance your gas.

[B]

Yeah. That goes back to what you were saying earlier about income not keeping a pace with the cost of living.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Elizabeth, you seem like you have some thoughts over there.

[A]

Well, I mean, in a previous episode, I did say. I said what I say, Shawn, you.

[B]

Said that Buy not Pay later can be a good tool for budgeting.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And you got some heat for that from listeners.

[A]

I did get some real heat, and there's heat in my mouth right now. And I still do think that Buy Now, Pay later could be a useful tool for people who have self control and for people who pay their payments in four. I don't know about Chipotle, but if you're struggling with your grocery bill or you have a big bill and you don't want to get charged interest on your credit card and you know that you can responsibly pay it in for FYI. Give me a second. FYI, they will be included in credit scores come fall. I think that's very soon. So for people, this could be a tool that they can use. And I know I'm probably going to get more hate mail. That's all right. In order to boost their credit score, however, I'm only saying this hot take for people who have a handle on budgeting and are not prone to impulse spending.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think you should rely on it, but it's a tool that you can use.

[B]

We've talked about how debt is just a tool, but it's so accessible that it's easy for a lot of people to get in over their heads and then spend years and years and years paying off this debt, oftentimes for things that they may just need to get by, like gas. Oh, my mouth is burning. And it's not right. And we shouldn't live with that, but we have to.

[A]

I'm gonna challenge you all to one more hot take. Yeah.

[C]

Like if you had allergies, this is what you would need.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna challenge you out of one hot take. Can you take it?

[B]

Okay, give us what you got.

[A]

I think. Well, no, no, that's not how it's going. Get you another celery. Get you another chicken. You thought she was gonna take some more sauce, so, Sis, for me, this was the spiciest one. Lucifer's last bladder. I can't talk. Reaper sauce. This is gonna be the finale. Okay, quiet. I'm shaking a little.

[B]

Guys, I see your hand shaking. Elizabeth, don't drop that bottle. I don't want to stain in your white sneaks.

[A]

Fakes Always looking out.

[D]

Co host.

[B]

Which one did you think was the spicest? Stephen?

[C]

Definitely this one.

[B]

This one.

[C]

This one was definitely the spiciest.

[B]

You have yet to break a sweat. Your hands seem pretty stable. You're stronger than us. We have to say it. We have to acknowledge it.

[C]

No. This is just training from youth.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right, everyone, final bites.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

The spirit has taken Elizabeth. Lucifer is in the building. I will note that Elizabeth is doing this completely of her own free will. She's not being coerced into doing this.

[A]

Living life on the edge.

[B]

You're a thrill seeker. You're an adrenaline junkie. We all know this.

[A]

I might regret this later. Okay.

[C]

Gonna be a good hot take.

[A]

My final hot take is I think people should blow up their budget at least once in their life. Especially people who are penny pinchers. Spend a dollar, okay. Or spend a hundred or spend a little more. So I'm not saying spend your way into poverty or a deep hole, but I do think that we need to remember that money is there to be spent. And also, our relationship with our finances ebbs and flows. Sometimes we're doing everything perfectly. Sometimes we're not. Right. Also, our budgets are very tied to seasons that we're in in life sometimes, and how we spend our money. And sometimes you're going through a hard time and you overspend. But that doesn't need to be the end of the road. So spend a little money. Don't say Elizabeth told you to go spend all your money. I'm not telling you to go and spend all your money at the mall today. Or maybe I did just say that. Maybe it's the hot sauce talking. I don't know.

[B]

Blow up your budget like you're blowing up your digestive system with this hot, hot sauce.

[A]

Oh, I got it. I got it. Set a budget for blowing up your budget. That's. Yeah.

[B]

Responsibly irresponsible.

[A]

Yeah, I like that.

[B]

Stephen, do you want to give us another? You have anything else?

[C]

Let me see. Oh, well, this is probably not really a hot take, but I think that money is a construct. It's not real. The only thing that has value is labor. People are valuable, and that's it. I really think that it's the most fictitious thing and it's just made up and we all just are agreeing to the same lie, but yet we still.

[A]

Got to pay that rent, don't we? Oh, dear.

[B]

Did you know that credit actually existed before money did? Yes, before we had dollars or whatever it was called back in Mesopotamia. We just had a credit system and that's all it was built on, is kind of trust with each other and also a tally system. Oh my, this hurts. Well, thank you guys so much. This has been really quite a physical and mental experience, a test of our endurances in many capacities. And I think Elizabeth and I, we're have to go for a walk and get something to calm us down.

[A]

I don't know if I'm going to make it.

[B]

Steven, thank you for joining us on this, your first time on the podcast. I'm sure we'll have you back. Thank you. I do want to say that our opinions today are just our own personal opinions and are not a reflection of house views of the company NerdWallet Inc. So do not take them as such. The following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.

[A]

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To join built.com smartmoney that's J-O-I-N B I-L T.com smartmoney. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions this episode. We're coming to you from a studio in Scottsdale, Arizona, where we're joined by a listener, Sandra, who has some questions about whether she should keep repairing her car or get a new one. Sandra, welcome to Smart Money.

[D]

Thank you. It's great to be here.

[B]

So talk with us. First about Scottsdale. I've never been here before. Neither has Elizabeth. What's your favorite thing to do? Or what's something that is beautiful in Scottsdale? Folks might not be aware Of.

[D]

Yeah. Well, Scottsdale is known for, I think, a couple of things, so hiking and golf.

[B]

Okay. Yes.

[D]

Not golf.

[B]

Okay, got it. Do you have any favorite hikes that you recommend?

[D]

Everybody's pretty familiar with Camelback, so that is a good one. But be aware that it can tend to be a little trafficky.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

So very bad and a bit more difficult as well. But it is very much fun.

[B]

Cool. Well, let's dive into your questions. I want to hear about your car a little bit. What kind of car do you have and why? Are you thinking of getting rid of it?

[D]

Yeah. So I have an Acura MDX. I have had the car for about nine years now, and it has a little over 92,000 miles on it, and it's overall in great shape. However, I did just take it for an oil or an oil change, and they did tell me that there's about $2,700 of repairs that I need to do that aren't things that are necessarily wrong, but are things that based off of the mileage, I need to look into fixing.

[A]

Oh, I've been there. I recently had that happen with my car issues as well. So is that the main driver for you wanting to change your car or thinking about it?

[D]

Well, it's that as well as knowing that the next car that I would like to get is an ev. So the house that I just got in January does have solar, and it's working very well for me. So I know that by utilizing that, I'd be able to save on gas.

[B]

Okay, so you're thinking maybe of making some quick moves in getting an electric vehicle, Is that right? Okay.

[D]

Yes. Yes. But I'm also unsure when I think about opportunity costs based off of the looming tariffs that will at some point start to also impact the cost of a vehicle. But knowing that I am putting my savings into a high yield savings account right now. So which one is better to continue to save until I have enough money to just pay for it in cash? Or based off of the current situation, thinking about the. The cost of the new car, but then outweighing what the current trade in value is, how do I figure out what that perfect point in time is for me to get the new vehicle?

[B]

Well, I love to hear that you have a high yield savings account. As you know, we're big fans of those on Smart Money. There are a few different rules of thumb that people consider when they're debating whether to trade in a car that needs maintenance or keep repairing it. And one is whether your repair costs are greater than the value of your car. So effectively, your car is totaled. Another one is whether your repair costs would cost more than the monthly payment on a new car. And that might be kind of hard to hit because the average car payment for a new car in July of 2025 was just under $750. So you have a few thousand dollars of maintenance. A few months of a car payment would, well, surpass that. But you also, I mean, you might be a person who just likes having a new car. Is that you? Do you like trading in cars every so often?

[D]

I don't. This is probably the longest that I've had a car. I do have my eyes out, though, for all of the additional safety features that come with new cars, especially when I think about the EV and then.

[A]

What have kind of been. I'm curious to know your patterns because I was going to ask you that earlier in terms of if you're the type of person who likes to drive a car into the ground. So what made you shift to keeping this car for nine years and how long have you kept your previous cars for?

[D]

My previous car was a coupe, so it was two doors. And I was pregnant with my first daughter, so I did not want to manage putting the car seat in.

[B]

Yeah, not very practical.

[D]

Not practical at all. So therefore, I got this vehicle as an SUV to be with me longer term. So it has treated me really well. I have not had a lot of car maintenance, but I did just put in January new tires on it, and there was an additional maintenance expense. So I've already spent about $2,500 this year.

[B]

And an Acura, that's a luxury vehicle, do you have to put premium gas in your car?

[D]

You do have to put premium gas, yeah. Correct.

[B]

I have to put premium gas in my car. And I feel kind of like an idiot every time I do it because I have a luxury vehicle. But it makes the car last longer, so it's well worth the money. Just like any kind of repairs that you're going to be putting into your vehicle, it'll make it last that much longer. In doing some research into an Acura MDX ahead of this conversation, I saw that they actually have lower repair cost than other cars in that category. So you have a great ride there, and they can last quite a long time. So I did some sort of cost benefit analysis numbers myself. So, like, so buckle up, no pun intended, because I have some things for you to think about here. So your car has like 92,000 miles on it, right? It's about 10 years old is what I. You mentioned nine, but I was running with 10. And so you're putting about 9,200 miles in your car each year, which is actually less than the average, which is around like 12,000 a year. So that means your car could last you quite a long time. The average lifespan of an Acura MDX according to some measures is around 250,000 miles. That means it would take you 17 more years to actually hit that point. So you could have a good long life with this car and then you could save however much monthly that you put toward a new car payment and put that into other financial goals like saving for retirement or a savings account for your kids education. How have you thought about the financial goal? Maybe buying a new car as it compares to other things you might want to do with this money?

[D]

Yeah, I've definitely considered that because things that I'm saving for include for sure the kids, whether that be when they need a vehicle which is not going to be thankfully for another eight years. Ish. So that's when that would occur. And then also for their education. Obviously my savings, I do have enough in my savings so that is not something that I'm concerned about. I have more than six months worth of expenses in my savings. So I feel like that's all really good. The one thing that I'm also considering though as I determine shifts with how I spend my money is that I did like I mentioned, buy a house in January. So that interest rate I was able to get around a six four.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I mean not bad for January 2025.

[D]

Yeah. So by talking with my mortgage broker, I'm currently able to think about refinancing closer to like a five, five if not less.

[B]

And you must have a good credit score.

[D]

I do have a good credit score.

[B]

Congratulations. Do you want to share the number?

[D]

It's all on track.

[A]

We have our six months emergency fund. We have a good credit score going. Like well done.

[D]

Thank you. Yeah. So I'm considering because I did refinance from unfortunately I had it like around a 2.2%.

[B]

Yeah, that must have hurt to lose.

[D]

That hurt a lot. Yeah. I had refinanced the 2.2 back then and was able to main pay my mortgage payments to go to a 20 year and so having 17 years left on that to go to now a 30 year with the same payment. I'm definitely looking at do I pay a little bit more each month, have refinance into about a 5.5-ish and go to either 20 or 15.

[B]

Well, a rule of thumb that our mortgage nerds recommend is that if you can get about like three quarters of a percentage point off your mortgage with the apr, then it may be worth refinancing. It seems like you would be able to hit that. But it's also a matter of breaking even because you have a lot of costs that are associated with refinancing. So if you're going to stay in the house long term, that might be a smart move for you, too. Do you have five to nines for your kids for college savings?

[D]

I do, but I feel like that situation is a little complex. So that's why I've been now putting more of my money into just a separate high yield savings account for them.

[B]

So say more about it being complex for you.

[D]

Yeah. So with my situation, I'm divorced, and we jointly put money into 529s for the kids. And he has continued to put some money as well. However, his mother has quite a bit of money, and she has shown that she is not shying away from spending on the kids.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And so what could happen is that she might decide to pay for, you know, a good amount of the kids. We don't know. And so it. Because I know 5:29, it kind of limits you in terms of how you're going to spend that money. I'm erring on the side of going a different route.

[A]

Well, I have good news. I don't know if you heard that money inside of a 529 can be rolled into a Roth for kids. I didn't know if you knew that that change has happened. Were you aware of that?

[D]

I was not aware of that.

[A]

Yeah. Because I was also on the fence about 529s, because we don't know my child is seven. Where the world is going to be in 20 years. Right. So I was like, well, what if he doesn't want to go to college or he takes a different route? But now, you know, there are limitations around it. Money can be put into a Roth for them, so you can start saving for retirement for them.

[B]

I also want to know, so say you buy a new car. It seems like you have expensive tastes, which I can relate to. What else could you do each month with $750?

[D]

Well, I could travel.

[B]

That's a good goal. We haven't talked about that.

[D]

Yeah. So that's not really a goal. But I do like to travel. But no, I would not be spending $750 a month. That'd be a little towards travel.

[B]

Have some nice trips.

[D]

Very nice trips.

[A]

I did want to pivot quickly because Sean did that awesome analysis and you didn't give us feedback on what you thought about it. So what did you think about the cost analysis he did in terms of you? I personally would not want to keep a car for 17 years, despite what I'm saving. But what were your thoughts on that?

[D]

Yeah, I agree. I don't think that I would keep it for 17 years. What went on in the back of my mind is, is, is there though, that opportunity of again not knowing what my ex is wanting to do to continue to drive it for that long? And then when my oldest, who in eight years will be able to drive, do I pass the vehicle along to her instead and do I wait that long and then buy myself the new vehicle?

[B]

Yeah, that might be a smart move too, because the car by that point will still have some legs on it. And you probably don't want to give your kid a brand new car. Right. This one will already be. This car is paid off. Right. So you could think about putting the money that you would theoretically put toward a new car payment into a brokerage account or high yield savings account specifically for this goal. Because your time horizon is eight years, that's beyond the five year minimum that we recommend for people to invest. So you'd be able to weather the ups and downs of the market, hopefully have this money grow a little bit, and then you could either potentially buy a car outright in cash or at least put a huge chunk down and have a very minimal car payment.

[D]

I like that idea.

[B]

Yeah. In the meantime, though, maintenance is super important. Are you staying on top of these regular, like, mileage milestones that you're hitting in terms of like spark plugs, tires, all of that stuff?

[D]

Yes, I am. I was considering that if I don't go forward with buying a new vehicle right now, as I think about that high amount of repairs, I would probably want to talk to the mechanics and understand if this is something that I can kind of separate out and then do one right now, wait and do another in six months. How can I break this up a little bit? Because I really don't want to pull much from my savings.

[B]

Yeah. And that's just because of the sort of emotional hit of it. It seems like you're making a decent amount. You could theoretically put enough toward a car payment, but paying all of that out of pocket, 2,200 something dollars, just doesn't feel good. Is that what you're coming at it from?

[D]

Exactly. I would Say that I'm a bit more conservative when it comes to money. I really want to feel financially secure, and that is the most important thing to me, which is probably why I'm not that person that likes to get new cars all the time, as well as why this is weighing so heavily on me right now.

[B]

Yeah, I'll share that. I have a car that is about as old as yours. It's a 2015, or I guess it's a 2016, but you know, they come out in 2015. I just rolled over 70 something thousand miles on it. I personally am planning on driving it into the ground in part because it has a CD player, which I love. A little bit of vintage charm. I have my CD collection in my car, and I just don't like having a car payment. I just paid off my car in February and the idea of going back to having some debt hanging over me, it doesn't feel great. Especially because aprs for car loans have gone up as interest rates have stayed pretty elevated. So even if you have great credit, which you do, it seems you're still going to be paying a decent amount in interest, and that's money you could be putting towards something else instead of paying interest.

[A]

And I always find this conversation interesting because I was going to ask you how much does. And I don't want to say social pressure, but sometimes we just want something new and shiny. Right. And I think there's sometimes a lot of shame around that when there doesn't necessarily have to be. If you can afford it and it's not wrecking your finances, money is there to bring you joy to, as I always say. Right. So I guess you kind of answered that with saying that you're conservative, but I'm somewhere in the middle. I pay off my car loan next year. So my son asked me the other day, when are you getting a new car? And I was like, well, do you have $25,000 to buy me a new car?

[B]

If you're lucky, that'd be a cheap car.

[A]

I know, right? In this economy. Exactly. That's how much I bought mine for, though. But similar to you guys, I think me being financially stable or just using that money for other things is more important than me having a new car at this time. So I will pay it off next year and like Sean, keep driving it until it can't drive anymore.

[B]

Yeah. And you have nine years until your son's going to be driving.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Oh, hey.

[A]

Oh, no, he's expensive. He says he wants a Tesla truck. So that.

[D]

That.

[A]

Yeah. That's what he wants.

[B]

Good luck. Okay. How are you feeling about this sort of cost benefit analysis currently? Or do you have any other questions around car buying that we haven't touched on yet?

[D]

I think the only other thing that I think about is as I've looked into interest rates based off of my credit score and some things that are out there right now is that it does look like there is opportunity for me to have an interest rate on a car payment that is lower than what I am able to get back from my high yield savings. So how does that play into it?

[B]

That. That would be nice if you could get that. What kind of interest rates are you seeing, just out of curiosity?

[D]

There's. There's some out there that's based off of the dealership where it's zero.

[B]

Oh, okay. And so, yeah, so it's basically a free car, right? Right, Free financing.

[D]

Whereas others are closer to about a 2.5%. Again, these are like all through dealerships. And I would want to look in terms of all of the different avenues to refinance before pulling the trigger. And so as I think about that, if I am able to get at a lower interest rate and knowing, you know, the future costs will be going up, is that still something based off of the analysis that I should hold onto and potentially give my car to my oldest daughter?

[B]

If you get 0 APR financing on a car, that would be great because for the best credit scores right now we're seeing interest rates around 5% or above. So that, that's a tough call too because we don't know where interest rates are going to be going. We don't exactly know where car payments are going to be going, but we assume up. Right. But you could still probably get a better return from your money by investing it over the long term or just holding onto that cash. Because as you said, you're someone who likes to retain your liquidity. You are conservative. So I think for me, I wouldn't want to see that money going out each month just for a depreciating asset like a car payment. And yes, again, you want to get a good deal when you can, but just trying to guess and speculate about what you might have to pay in the future, it could be less. The car market could totally shift and we don't know where it's going. You could actually find a more affordable car in the future. So I wouldn't make any big decisions based on where you think it might go just because things are kind of trending one way currently. When you do have so much more time, potentially with your car, but that's just me. And I tend to be conservative around debt payments, so.

[A]

And also, you're in a. In a good position. You have a great emergency fund. You have savings. You can afford a car if you want a new car. So I think you have a lot of good options, and that's a good place to start from. So based on our conversation, where are you leaning towards, Sandra? Where are you more leaning towards?

[D]

I think I'm leaning towards running it in the ground or passing it over to you.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Because that's what I would do. I love that that's a bad idea. And there's something that feels kind of noble about that, too, where you're like, look, I'm saving money. I don't need to put money into this new shiny thing, as tempting as that is. And I'm sure your daughter would be able to get some good use out of it and, yeah, see where the market goes. And again, what else would you do with that money each month?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Have those vacations.

[A]

Exactly. Well, we would love to hear about. If you do change your mind and get the shiny new car, please let us know. And we'd love to know how that works out financially for you as well.

[B]

Well, thank you for coming on and talking with us, Sandra.

[D]

Thank you, Sean and Elizabeth.

[B]

If you enjoyed our conversation and you're interested in getting a financial strategy tailored specifically to your needs, then you may want to consider working with a financial planner. You can get matched with a financial planner for free using NerdWallet Advisors match. You can find a link to that in today's show notes.

[A]

And that's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we're here to answer your money questions. So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 9017-30, nerd. You can send us an email, too.

[B]

@Podcastnerdwallet.Com join us next time to hear about how to set your child up for financial success.

[A]

And our brief disclaimer, we are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy information is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes, and it might not apply to your specific circumstances.

[B]

This episode was produced by Tess Viglund and Ana Helhosky with help from Shai Ronan. Hilary Georgie helped with editing. Nick Karisimi mixed our audio. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help. Join us next time to hear about how to set your child up for financial success. Follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app, including iHeartRadio, Spotify, and Apple podcasts.

[A]

And until next time, turn to the nerds.