What to do When Groceries Cost More and Retirement Feels Out of Reach

Summary

NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast: "What to do When Groceries Cost More and Retirement Feels Out of Reach"

Release Date: March 13, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, hosts Sean Pyles and Elizabeth Ayola delve into the pressing concerns of rising grocery costs due to new tariffs and the looming challenge of retirement savings. The episode seamlessly transitions from a comprehensive news roundup on economic changes to an in-depth discussion of a listener's retirement dilemma, providing actionable insights and expert advice.

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Tariff News Roundup: Navigating Rising Costs

[01:14] Elizabeth Ayola:
"You know all those grocery price hikes that made us mad over the last couple years?"
Elizabeth sets the stage by addressing the frustration many consumers feel over increasing grocery prices, a topic exacerbated by recent tariff implementations.

[02:02] Elizabeth Ayola:
"Our news colleague Anna Helchi is here to help sift through what this means for our finances and how best to manage the impact, including basics like how to save on groceries."
Anna Helchi joins the conversation to break down the complexities of the new tariffs and their direct impact on everyday expenses.

Understanding the New Tariffs

[02:25] Ana Helchi:
"Some of Trump's promised 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada have gone into effect. And an additional 10% tariff has also been levied on Chinese goods, bringing the total added tariff to 20%."
Ana explains the specifics of the tariffs, highlighting the increased costs on both Mexican and Canadian imports, as well as additional levies on Chinese goods.

[03:23] Sean Pyles:
"What's Trump's reasoning for the tariffs?"
Sean probes into the motivations behind these economic measures.

[03:28] Ana Helchi:
"They're mainly punitive, meaning that Trump is blaming Mexico and Canada for not curbing drug trafficking into the United States. But there's an economic side to it, too. He also claims that tariffs would entice companies to bring more manufacturing back to the U.S."
Ana elucidates the dual motives of the tariffs: punitive action against Mexico and Canada for drug trafficking issues, and economic incentives to boost domestic manufacturing.

Global Responses and Consumer Impact

[04:04] Ana Helchi:
"We're just entering a trade war, and we know those usually lead to all kinds of economic impacts, but namely, higher prices for consumers."
Ana warns of the broader economic repercussions, particularly the inevitable rise in consumer prices.

[04:34] Kim Palmer:
"We expect to see some categories really go up in price pretty much right away, and that includes our everyday essentials. So things like Food, gas, clothing, and then some luxuries like consumer electronics, jewelry, cosmetics."
Kim Palmer outlines the immediate effects of tariffs on essential goods, emphasizing that both necessities and luxury items will see price hikes.

[06:07] Ana Helchi:
"So it's not just foreign goods that will cost more. Right? Even if it says made in the US it could still get more expensive."
Ana highlights that domestic products may also experience price increases due to their reliance on imported components.

Strategies to Mitigate Rising Costs

[07:43] Ana Helchi:
"What can consumers do?"
The conversation shifts to practical advice for listeners facing higher costs.

[07:47] Kim Palmer:
"Change our behavior. So taking some steps, like creating a budget for yourself, looking at your past spending, seeing what you might be able to cut back on..."
Kim emphasizes behavioral changes, such as budgeting and reducing discretionary spending, to manage increased expenses.

[09:22] Amanda Barroso:
"Meal planning and list making are two ways that NerdWallet recommends saving money at the grocery store."
Amanda introduces specific strategies for grocery shopping, including meal planning and using shopping lists to avoid unnecessary purchases.

[10:49] Amanda Barroso:
"There's a lot of functionality, pretty much everything you need from the free versions of list apps."
Amanda recommends utilizing grocery list apps to enhance shopping efficiency and reduce impulse buying, highlighting features like real-time syncing and barcode scanning to track pantry items.

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Listener's Retirement Dilemma: Amy's Story

[14:58] Elizabeth Ayola:
"Amy, welcome to Smart Money."
The hosts introduce Amy, a 49-year-old listener from Wisconsin, who seeks advice on catching up on retirement savings amidst economic uncertainties.

Amy’s Financial Snapshot

[15:04] Amy:
"I work as a church musician and my husband works as a welder. Together we earn about 130k. We have six months' savings saved, so we're feeling okay. Our improvement is just we don't know what's coming down the pike for retirement."
Amy provides an overview of her and her husband's financial situation, highlighting their steady income and emergency savings but expressing concerns about their retirement readiness.

[15:24] Sean Pyles:
"What's your timeline for retirement?"
Sean probes into Amy's retirement plans.

[16:41] Amy:
"We're looking at the old 67 and a half."
Amy indicates a traditional retirement age, balancing their desire to retire with practical considerations like paying off their home and health insurance needs.

Analyzing Retirement Needs

[16:02] Amy:
"We did a calculator game one evening and we were like, we need 2 million in order to retire and live for 30 years after we retire. And it freaked us both out."
Amy shares the unsettling realization that their current savings fall short of their retirement goals, prompting a reassessment of their financial strategies.

[22:07] Sean Pyles:
"How much do you need to have the life that you want? It depends on so many factors like the lifestyle you plan to have, the age you plan to retire, your life expectancy..."
Sean emphasizes the complexity of determining retirement savings, noting that individual circumstances and goals significantly influence the required amount.

[24:32] Amy:
"We are planning to open up a Roth IRA so I can have a tax break when I retire. And being 50, I can put 8,000 into it a year."
Amy outlines proactive steps she and her husband are taking to bolster their retirement savings, including maximizing contributions to retirement accounts and exploring side gigs.

Exploring Retirement Strategies

[25:54] Amy:
"I'm planning in the spring to open up a Roth IRA so I can have a tax break when I retire... trying to pay that down just to give yourself a little bit more wiggle room."
Amy discusses her strategy to increase retirement contributions and reduce debt to provide financial flexibility in the future.

[28:12] Elizabeth Ayola:
"There are different types of FIRE... you could have barista fire, which is essentially when you save enough to work part-time but no longer depend on full-time work."
Elizabeth introduces the FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement, explaining its various forms and how Amy and her husband might integrate elements that align with their values and lifestyles.

[30:11] Amy:
"Healthcare is something that I always am concerned about when it comes to retirement because as we get older, our medical expenses tend to get greater."
Amy underscores the importance of factoring in healthcare costs when planning for retirement, a critical consideration given the unpredictability of medical needs.

Actionable Advice and Encouragement

[32:17] Sean Pyles:
"You'll want to, when you meet with that financial advisor, think about those creative ways and also maybe consider bumping up how much you are contributing to these retirement accounts."
Sean encourages Amy to consult with a certified financial planner to tailor a retirement strategy that considers her unique situation and goals.

[31:54] Amy:
"It's exciting to hear about this barista fire aspect of the fire movement... I'm really excited about that. So thank you. This has been really helpful and calming."
Amy expresses gratitude for the guidance provided, feeling more confident about her retirement planning after the discussion.

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Conclusion

In this episode, NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast adeptly addresses two interrelated financial concerns: the immediate impact of rising grocery costs due to new tariffs and the long-term challenge of preparing for retirement in uncertain economic times. Through expert analysis and a heartfelt listener story, the hosts and guests offer a blend of macroeconomic insights and practical, personalized advice. Listeners are encouraged to adapt their spending habits, utilize technological tools for budgeting, and seek professional financial planning to navigate their unique financial landscapes successfully.

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Notable Quotes

• Elizabeth Ayola [01:14]:
  "You know all those grocery price hikes that made us mad over the last couple years?"

• Ana Helchi [02:25]:
  "Some of Trump's promised 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada have gone into effect. And an additional 10% tariff has also been levied on Chinese goods, bringing the total added tariff to 20%."

• Kim Palmer [04:34]:
  "We expect to see some categories really go up in price pretty much right away, and that includes our everyday essentials."

• Amanda Barroso [09:22]:
  "Unlike other kinds of spending where we can cut back altogether, food is just not one of those things."

• Amy [15:04]:
  "We have six months savings saved, so we're feeling okay. Our improvement is just we don't know what's coming down the pike for retirement."

• Elizabeth Ayola [24:32]:
  "There are different types of FIRE... you could have barista fire, which is essentially when you save enough to work part-time but no longer depend on full-time work."

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Key Takeaways

1. Impact of Tariffs: New tariffs on goods imported from Mexico, Canada, and China are leading to increased prices on a wide range of products, affecting everyday essentials and luxury items alike.

2. Consumer Strategies: To mitigate rising costs, consumers are advised to adopt budgeting practices, utilize grocery list apps, plan meals meticulously, and avoid unnecessary bulk purchases.

3. Retirement Planning Challenges: Individuals approaching retirement age face uncertainties due to inadequate savings, prompting the need for strategic financial planning and possibly adjusting retirement expectations.

4. FIRE Movement Insights: Different forms of the FIRE movement offer flexible approaches to financial independence, allowing individuals to tailor their retirement plans to their personal lifestyles and preferences.

5. Professional Guidance: Consulting with certified financial planners is crucial for developing personalized retirement strategies that account for unique financial situations and long-term goals.

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By addressing both immediate financial pressures and long-term planning needs, this episode equips listeners with the knowledge and tools necessary to navigate complex economic landscapes and secure their financial futures.

Transcript

[Sean Pyles]

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[Elizabeth Ayola]

I do. And I also know we're sick of talking about eggs, but I can't live without them. And I'm also sick of the prices going up. Olive oil, too. I use that to make my eggs.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, quite a few products from the grocery store shelves are about to get even more expensive, along with even bigger ticket items as new tariffs kick in. We've got some advice on how to deal with them. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Pyles.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And I'm Elizabeth Ayola.

[Sean Pyles]

This episode, we're talking with a listener who's wondering how to catch up on retirement savings and whether early retirement is still an option. But first, our weekly Money News roundup, where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Okay, so if your head is spinning from the tariff news in the last week or so, you're not alone. Our news colleague Anna Helchi is here to help sift through what this means for our finances and how best to manage the impact, including basics like how to save on groceries. Ana, you've been tracking the play by play of this drama. But what do people need to know right now about the tariffs?

[Ana Helchi]

Yeah, Elizabeth, there has been a lot of tit for tat, but these are some of the main points. Some of Trump's promised 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada have gone into effect. And an additional 10% tariff has also been levied on Chinese goods, bringing the total added tariff to 20%. But Trump soon made an exemption, a one month reprieve to the auto industry from the 25% tariffs on import purchases. And then he walked back some of the Canada and Mexico tariffs by making an additional exemption for any imported products that are included in the 2020 free trade deal known as the United States Mexico Canada Agreement. And that's estimated to be around 50% of Mexican imports and 38% of Canadian imports. That pause will be in effect until April 2nd. Now, yesterday, 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum went into effect, and there are no countries exempt from that. And that prompted the European Union and Canada to respond with countermeasures of their own.

[Sean Pyles]

Okay, so a lot of back and forth here. What's Trump's reasoning for the tariffs?

[Ana Helchi]

They're mainly punitive, meaning that Trump is blaming Mexico and Canada for not curbing drug trafficking into the United States. But there's an economic side to it, too. He also claims that tariffs would entice companies to bring more manufacturing back to.

[Sean Pyles]

The U.S. canada, China, and Mexico are our three biggest trading partners. So what has their response been?

[Ana Helchi]

Unsurprisingly, it's not good. There have been retaliatory tariffs from Canada as well as China. Mexico is planning retaliatory tariffs, but have pushed those back until the pause ends.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

So many tariffs, and it feels so hard to keep up with. So are there more tariffs on the way?

[Ana Helchi]

It's very likely. It's unclear exactly what will happen with the existing tariffs, but. But Trump has threatened additional ones, including unspecified tariffs on foreign cars as well as agricultural products. So basically, we've just entered a trade war, and we know those usually lead to all kinds of economic impacts, but namely higher prices for consumers. Today I'm talking with two nerdwall personal finance experts on some of the ways shoppers can navigate the uncertainty. Kim Palmer and Amanda Barroso. Welcome to Smart Money.

[Kim Palmer]

Thanks for having us.

[Amanda Barroso]

Thanks, Anna.

[Ana Helchi]

So, Kim, let's start with some of the categories of goods that are likely to be impacted by the tariffs.

[Kim Palmer]

We expect to see some categories really go up in price pretty much right away, and that includes our everyday essentials. So things like Food, gas, clothing, and then some luxuries like consumer electronics, jewelry, cosmetics. And then more down the road, we expect to see the big ticket items like new cars, new homes. Those will also be impacted within food, which is really the category that consumers will feel soonest right away and every day since we all have to go shopping at the grocery store. The items that economists say will really jump the soonest in price are things like fruit, fish, wine and beer. Food oils like olive oil, dairy, nuts and sugar.

[Ana Helchi]

And are there products that are more vulnerable to price hikes than others?

[Kim Palmer]

There are. So what's interesting about the impact of tariffs on consumer prices is that it really depends how much of the price increase the retailers and manufacturers decide to pass on to consumers. So in some cases, the retailers and manufacturers, they have more flexibility to absorb some of that price increase themselves. We see that especially with things like household goods and consumer electronics. But then in other categories like food, they there's just not that much flexibility because profit margins are already so tight. So that's where consumers will really see the biggest price hikes right away.

[Ana Helchi]

So it's not just foreign goods that will cost more. Right? Even if it says made in the US it could still get more expensive.

[Kim Palmer]

That's right. And the prices of imported and domestic items are really so closely related. For example, if you look at a category like wine, where you have imported wine, if that price goes up, sellers of domestic wine can also raise their prices. All of the prices are related. So it's hard to expect one to stay stable while the other goes up. And at the same time, we have a lot of items made in the US that rely on imported supplies. And so if those imported supplies go up in price, that will ultimately affect what consumers pay on the final product.

[Ana Helchi]

So I'm curious about this. Is there any point when companies can change their prices? Say you buy a couch online that's going to ship from China. Hypothetically, if a new tariff was imposed, could a company change its price after you already bought it to accommodate for that new tariff?

[Kim Palmer]

Well, in theory that could happen, but it really shouldn't. Because when you agree on a purchase price with a seller, that's really essentially a contract. The seller after that point shouldn't be able to raise the price unless you are agreeing to that or you talk about it. If you do see a price go up after you have agreed to a different price, it's definitely worth pushing back, questioning any extra charges. But what we could see, which is more common, is that a company will go ahead and cancel Any existing orders if they're suddenly facing new prices. And then you'd have to place a new order under the higher price.

[Ana Helchi]

All right, so now the big question, what can consumers do?

[Kim Palmer]

Well, unfortunately, there's really not too much consumers can do about the prices. But what we can do is change our behavior. So taking some steps, like creating a budget for yourself, looking at your past spending, seeing what you might be able to cut back on just to accommodate the higher prices that we're facing in other areas that can help alleviate some of the stress of these tariffs. And then also taking steps like building your emergency fund just so you have that cushion to help protect you from the extra costs, paying off any high interest debt you have. For example, if you're carrying credit card debt, trying to pay that down just to give yourself a little bit more wiggle room here. One thing we shouldn't do, which I think is a natural urge for a lot of us, is to go out and buy extra items, things we don't necessarily need now, but think we might need in the future. We wanna buy them now to avoid the future higher prices. But this is something across the board economists really warn against because basically that means we're spending more money than we would otherwise now, and we don't necessarily need that item. Or we might not know when we need that item, if we need it, we could change our mind. If we buy a lot of something now, then we have to store it. There's all kinds of reasons not to buy early. So it's definitely something to think about.

[Ana Helchi]

Yeah, that doesn't seem like a great strategy. Thanks, Kim. Let's turn over to you, Amanda. Now, Kim mentioned that groceries are likely to get more expensive. Can you talk a little bit about what people can do specifically when it comes to managing grocery price increases?

[Amanda Barroso]

Absolutely. And you know, Kim mentioned this. Unlike other kinds of spending where we can cut back altogether, food is just not one of those things. But we can work on spending our money more wisely at the grocery store. So I know some folks have started using grocery pickup or drive up services to try to cut back on impulse purchases in the store. And I think that's a really smart idea. Meal planning and list making are two ways that NerdWallet recommends saving money at the grocery store. But if you're anything like me, you write the list down and you forget to bring it to the store, or your partner stops at the store and doesn't have the list. And there's an easy solution for this, and it's a grocery List app. So, for a recent story, I actually looked at some popular grocery list apps for Apple and Android users and found some pretty great options. Just as a baseline, these list apps sync in real time. You can make multiple lists. If you're like me, maybe you shop at Aldi and Costco, you can make multiple lists there. You can share with members of your household. So multiple people can add to the list, which is a really nice feature. So, like, the mental load isn't always just on the person who downloaded the app. The items on the list are also, like, grouped into categories that are really smart and kind of make shopping in the store more efficient. So, like, items are grouped so you know, you can kind of pick up things all together as you're meandering through the aisles.

[Ana Helchi]

So you mentioned some apps that could make it a little easier to navigate price increases. What did you find?

[Amanda Barroso]

I think there are some apps that are really ripe for this moment in time. For example, bring with an exclamation point lets you save store cards so you can take advantage of sales and don't have to dig them out of your wallet. You can also get coupons and rewards from those stores right there. There's another app called out of Milk that displays a running total as you shop. So, like, you don't have that sticker shock when you get to the register. Other apps, any list and our groceries give you the option to take a photo of the product you want to add to your list so you can make sure you or whoever's hitting the store is getting the right thing. That could be important too, if you're wanting to make the switch to store brands to try to save money. Like, hey, you know, for my husband, like, please don't just get any chicken stock, right? Let's try to save and get the one that I've taken the picture of here. I think the good news is that all of these apps are free or have a free version. And while some do offer premium features that are pretty cool, like you could import recipes from your favorite blog and easily add the ingredients to your list. You can get a lot of functionality, pretty much everything you need from the free versions. There's another feature that I think is pretty cool. It's from the out of Milk app. So it allows you to scan the barcodes of items in your pantry so you can track what you have. And I don't know if you guys are like me, but I get to the store and I'm like, do I have chicken stock? I don't know. I'LL just buy another one. Do I have diced tomatoes? What's another can or two going to hurt? That's me spending money that I didn't have to spend. So this app is pretty cool because you can literally see what's in your pantry when you're at the store and really keep from spending money on duplicates that you don't want.

[Ana Helchi]

No, that's great advice. I have about four packages of chicken stock currently sitting in my pantry that I absolutely do not need that many.

[Amanda Barroso]

Same here.

[Ana Helchi]

Kim and Amanda, thanks again for joining us.

[Kim Palmer]

Thank you.

[Amanda Barroso]

Thanks for having us.

[Sean Pyles]

And thank you, Ana.

[Ana Helchi]

Thanks Sean.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Up next, we answer listener's question about catching up on retirement savings. But before we get into that, a reminder listener to send us your money questions. So take a second and think where do you need help with your money? Leave us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-N E R D or email [e-mail] maybe you want to up your.

[Sean Pyles]

Credit card points game, but aren't sure which card is right for you. Or you're in the middle of planning your wedding and you aren't sure what's a reasonable amount to spend on flowers. And I may be speaking for myself there. Again, leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730- nerd or email [e-mail] now.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Let'S get to this episode's money question that's coming up in a moment. Stay with us.

[Sean Pyles]

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[Elizabeth Ayola]

Amy, welcome to Smart Money.

[Amy]

Hi. Thank you all so much. I'm so excited to be here.

[Sean Pyles]

We're happy to have you. Amy, can you start by telling us what your financial life is like right now? Where do you feel good? Where do you feel like you might have some room for improvement?

[Amy]

Well, I'm actually feeling really good about spending. My husband and I, we're both kind of middle working class folks. I work in a church, he works as a welder. And we are pretty good at spending what we can afford and then paying off our credit cards every month. So that's really nice.

[Sean Pyles]

Okay. Living within your means.

[Amy]

Living within our means. Yep, that's what we like to hear. Another thing we're really pleased about is that we actually have six months savings saved, so we're feeling okay. It's pretty volatile, I think, in both of our employments, so we just wanted to make sure we had that just in case. So that feels good. And our improvement is just we don't know what's coming down the pike for retirement. And both of us just started saving about 10 years ago, so that's what we're thinking about.

[Sean Pyles]

And when you say you don't know what's coming down the pike, what do you mean by that?

[Amy]

Well, my father's on Medicaid, so I'm kind of watching through his experience what it's like to be on the other end of the spectrum of not having any money and using government stuff to survive. And he's on hospice with that. And so we just don't know what to expect. We don't know what will happen with Social Security. There's a lot of unknowns. And we did a calculator game one evening many months ago, and we were like, we need 2 million in order to retire and live for 30 years after we retire. And it freaked us both out. We're like, oh, wow, we're not even close. That's what got us started on this little game.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, we'll get into all of those details around your retirement in just a moment. Amy, can you talk with us a little bit more about your job and your husband's job? How much are you typically earning and why are you maybe concerned about some uncertainty around your jobs?

[Amy]

Together we earn about 130k. I guess our insecurity stems from I'm in as a church musician, I work as a church musician and I have maybe one out of maybe 15, 12 to 15 full time jobs in our area. There's not that many and churches are on a downswing cycle at the moment. So my job does not feel absolutely secure for the next 20 some years. My husband works as a welder and he works for a family owned company, which we think should be all right. It's just things change. There was a company in our area that did really quite well and then suddenly it closed its doors and all the workers had to find new jobs. It's just we both are a little edgy and we both come from fairly hard scrabble backgrounds. We don't have that comfort zone of like, oh yeah, we'll be fine. You know, we both are more cautious.

[Sean Pyles]

So just to clarify, you said that you have one of only 15 full time church jobs in your area. Is that musicians or just all church jobs?

[Amy]

Musicians.

[Sean Pyles]

So there might not be a lot of other options if you do need to find a new job at a different church or something?

[Amy]

No. And I have been thinking outside the box, like asking two churches, like, hey, would you be willing to pay for me part time and come together for benefits? It's the whole benefits thing that we both are also concerned about as we both head into our 50s and 60s knowing as you age you need medical insurance.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

I think, Amy, the things that you're thinking about are valid. And I also want to validate you by saying my retirement number was around 2 million something. And I was like, well, how the heck am I supposed to save all that money? So I understand how it feels to be freaked out by the number that you get. But I also want to ask, how do you and your husband manage your household finances? And also kudos to y'all because it's not easy being a full time gig worker or entrepreneur or creative and having that uncertainty. So how do you guys navigate managing your household finances with your income?

[Amy]

I actually have the house in my name, so I pay the mortgage. My husband takes care of utilities and that kind of stuff. He also takes care of our bundled insurance, which is really helpful. We both have health insurance through our jobs, so that's taken care of. And it's a low Deductible. We pretty much split stuff down the middle, and we have not combined our finances. We got married later in life, and he was coming from a divorce situation, and I had been single my entire life up until about 38 years old. I was not gung ho to like, hey, let's mix all the finances together. And neither was he. We both wanted to keep things separate. Although I think Wisconsin's a common law. I don't know if that's the right word. Things are in common. So if one of us were to pass away, suddenly, the other would inherit community property. Community property. That's it. We're a community property state. Yeah. Thank you.

[Sean Pyles]

Sure. So you guys have kept your finances separate, but now as you're thinking about retirement planning, I get the impression that you guys are maybe doing a little bit more collaboration on that. Is that correct?

[Amy]

We are. We actually work as a team. We just keep our finances separate. The only reason we could afford the house is we worked together. I was actually pretty proud of us. We got married, as I said, later in life, and we looked at each other and we were like, we really don't want presents because we both had life's worth of stuff to collaborate into a single household. So we asked for just financial donations at our wedding if people felt moved to. And we got enough to help with the down payment for a house.

[Sean Pyles]

Oh, that's great.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

That is so cool.

[Amy]

Yeah, we just. We both. If there's a box, we try to find whatever's outside of it. So.

[Sean Pyles]

You know, my partner and I right now are planning our wedding, which we're having later this year, and we're setting up our registry, and we're in a similar situation where we have all the household things we need. And our default was to say, oh, just fund our honeymoon. But part of me is wondering, should I have a fund my 401k option on my registry?

[Amy]

I think that would be solid. I'd contribute to that.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, thank you. I'll send you the link. So you've been saving for retirement with your partner, but, you know, separately on your own for the past ten or so years. How much do you have saved?

[Amy]

According to my 401k, I have 89k.

[Sean Pyles]

A little shy of 2 million.

[Amy]

A little shy of 2 million. I know we sat down last night and kind of broke it down. Like, he's kind of similar. I think he said 88k was his together. We. I think he's got 20k in his savings and I've got 50k in mine.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

So I know that you said that you guys work as a team, but you kind of have separate finances. So during retirement do you guys plan to pull your finances together or you're going to spend your retirement money and he will spend his?

[Amy]

We probably plan to get a financial advisor or planner to help us with that. But our goal would be to keep things separate still and just pull what we need, not go together. But we don't really know. We really haven't explored that.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

So then I have another follow up question. So I know you asked us about maybe how much do you need to save for retirement, right? So when you ask that question, do you mean separately or as a couple?

[Amy]

We actually answered that separately. We were like, okay, we each need 2 million, but to be honest, I think it's probably 2 million for the two of us.

[Sean Pyles]

I think you're sort of going back and forth and thinking through this in confusion. Speaks to one of the hardest questions around saving for retirement, which really is like, how much do you need?

[Amanda Barroso]

Need?

[Sean Pyles]

How much do you need to have the life that you want? And it depends on so many factors like the lifestyle you plan to have, the age you plan to retire, your life expectancy, how much you have saved. A lot of people can live on 70% of their pre retirement income during retirement. Others might want to live on closer to 80 if they want to have a cushier retirement and want to travel a lot. When you think about your retirement, when you're talking with your husband about this, what do you envision your retirement to be like? Where do you see yourself if, if you can make a mental image?

[Amy]

I mean I could see us staying where we are cause we'll hopefully have paid the house off by then. But we also both want to travel. That's actually the top of our list is we really want to travel. We have looked at maybe moving to another country and being an expat. I have a couple friends who have done that. There's a couple of communities that I'd be interested in either being a part of and my husband is too. There's one in Costa Rica that we've looked at extensively. It's a Quaker community that we're both interested in being a part of. I think the cost of living is slightly less there, but we would investigate like how are the health benefits? How would it be living as an expat? What are the expectations? We also don't want to be a drain on people that are natives to Costa Rica. We would rather come in and support, but traveling and we would like to live long lives, but you can only guess so much.

[Sean Pyles]

I'm glad to hear that you mentioned you're planning to talk with a financial advisor, because retirement planning specifically is so individual. It depends on where you are, where your husband are, where you are together, overlapping. And you would really benefit from having someone dig into all of your numbers and really have that longer conversation with you about what would it be like if you went to Costa Rica? What would it be like if you stayed here? Could you sell your house? Could you get rental income from your property if you're living elsewhere? There are so many factors to consider, but going with a fee only fiduciary certified financial planner is often the best way to go to have a comprehensive plan for your retirement.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And I would like to circle back, Amy, because in my past time. Well, no, my present time, I love to play with retirement calculators, a very strange hobby. You mentioned that you and your partner have done that.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

But I do want to point out that seeing a big number like 2 million can feel very intimidating. I want you to also remember that you're not saving 2.5 million on your own. Right. So you're investing a smaller amount with the hope that it's going to grow over time into the amount that you expect to need for retirement. And I fell into that trap recently as well, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so far from my goal. And then I forgot for a moment that my money's going to compound over time and it will start multiplying itself, essentially. So for those who are listening, who don't understand compound interest, you earn interest on your interest in investment accounts, effectively allowing your investments to snowball. And the acceleration of growth is often much more rapid in the final years of retirement. So all that is to say, your money's going to grow over time. So you want to think about your retirement savings in terms of what you might need on an annual basis versus the total number. But if you are behind on your retirement savings, you have a few options. I think the four main options that you have if you fall behind is, one, you could work for a few more years than you originally planned. Two, you can spend less and invest more in your retirement accounts. The third option would be to change what retirement looks like for you. So maybe it's a hybrid of retirement and picking up side jobs, and then the fourth one may be to employ some combination of all of these options. So when I say that, what stands out to you, Amy, for maybe an option that you could explore.

[Amy]

Well, the spending less and investing more is one I'm planning in the spring to open up a Roth IRA so I can have a tax break when I retire. And being 50, I can put 8,000 into it a year. So that's something I'm starting to do as well as keep my 401k going and something my husband and I both talked about that we wouldn't mind doing side gigs. I mean as a musician, I don't mind if I accompany until I can't. I will teach until I'm in the grave because I love it. I just love working with young musicians. And he's kind of similar. He's like, well, I could do handyman jobs. He loves to carve, he's done art pieces on commission. And being a welder, he would love to also teach, maybe be a kind of someone who can maybe come in and help a family run business. Like help them train their welders, their young welders, that kind of thing.

[Sean Pyles]

Sure. Well, I think the fact that you, you and your husband both like to and make a point to think outside of the box will really help you get creative with your retirement savings. Because the truth of the matter is that you have a ways to go and you're planning to retire in 10, 12 years. What's your timeline for that?

[Amy]

We're looking at the old 67 and a half.

[Sean Pyles]

Okay, so 17ish years, that's a decent amount of time. But the clock is for sure ticking. So you'll want to, when you meet with that financial advisor, think about those creative ways and also maybe consider bumping up how much you are contributing to these retirement accounts. Do you know what percentage of your income you're putting away into your 401k right now?

[Amy]

I believe 7% from me and my employer is amazing. They contribute 7% as well. So it's 14.

[Sean Pyles]

Well that's great because a lot of financial advisors Recommend Saving between 10 and 15% of your pre tax income for retirement. So you're pretty much right there at the higher end. But that said, if someone is behind in saving, that percentage could be closer to 25% or 30% or even more of your pre tax income. So when you meet with the advisor, they'll have some software where they can run different percentages of your income being put into a 401k or a Roth IRA and see how that might play out over the years that you have left before retirement to see how close you can get to that goal of 2 2.5 million.

[Amy]

All right, cool.

[Sean Pyles]

Something else you wrote to us about in your email was the fire movement. What are your thoughts around that? And how did someone plant the seed in your brain?

[Amy]

Oh, gosh. The seed got planted in my brain during the pandemic when I kept listening to different fire movement things that were happening. And honestly, it got planted because my husband and I could work during the pandemic. Talk about luck. Because we both. We had a very frightening 24 hour moment where neither one of us could work, but it was fine. He fantasized about retiring and me being a sugar mama. And I was like, no, I love it.

[Sean Pyles]

That's so funny. Romantic of him. And also, you should take him up on that offer if you can.

[Amy]

I was like, no, no, no, dear. As a church musician, you gotta be kidding. But, you know, that aside, we just both. We fantasized about it for a little bit. We just both had a moment of, oh, gosh, what are we gonna do? But when we looked into it, more and more the frugality that was required, we just. We would like to enjoy life. We would like to travel. Now, at the time that I was looking at it, my hips were starting to really degenerate, and I knew that I had to get them replaced. So I'm like, I don't think I can retire young, pay this off. No. So we just kind of gave up on the idea. But what we liked about it and what we both picked up from it was being more frugal in a good way, not in a super strict, we eat cans of beans and rice and that's it for the rest of our lives kind of thing.

[Sean Pyles]

Yeah. Because doing the fire movement in the purest sense often requires folks to save between 50 and 75% of their income for retirement. And a common guideline is to have 25 times your annual income saved before you can retire early.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Oh, wow.

[Sean Pyles]

Pretty difficult to do for anyone, no matter where they are in their financial life. But fire comes with some risks, such as having to foot your own medical bills until Medicare kicks in at 65. So you mentioned your hips. Healthcare is something that I always am concerned about when it comes to retirement because as we know, when we get older, our medical expense expenses tend to get greater. You have to account for that when it comes to your savings and investments, too.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

But I do have some, like. I don't know if this is good news or not. There are different types of fire. Right. So while you may have to be stringent for, like Sean said, the more pure type of fire. There is also barista fire for those who are listening, who may be like, oh, I want to retire early. And that's essentially when you save enough to work part time but no longer need to depend on full time work. And based on what you told me about you and your husband loving your jobs, which is awesome, and being happy to do it, you know, for as long as you need to do it, There is also the option of working part time. And the goal there is to have enough so that you don't have to work full time, but you'd still work part time. So that's a form of fire as well.

[Amy]

What is it called again?

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Barista fire.

[Amy]

Barista fire. I like that.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Uh huh. There are different types.

[Sean Pyles]

Yours might be musician fire, where you're playing in a band and you're getting some money from that, but you're not doing it 40 hours a week.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yes.

[Amy]

Oh wow. I could cover my heavy metal side. This could be fun.

[Sean Pyles]

There you go. Yeah, you don't have to be working at a coffee shop. Barista really just refers to having some kind of part time job.

[Amy]

Yeah, I was a Starbucks barista, so it was one of my first gigs when I moved back to Wisconsin.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Well, there you go.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, maybe thinking outside of the box, you can combine some aspects of making coffee with playing music. There might be something there.

[Amy]

It might be.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And a cheeky plug for the listeners who are like, what other types of fire are there? We have an article on Nerdwe.com about the different types of fire, so we will put that in the show notes.

[Sean Pyles]

So, Amy, we've run through some different aspects of how to save for retirement where you might be able to catch up on some aspects of investing and saving. How are you feeling at the moment? Are there any other questions around saving for retirement that we haven't gotten to yet?

[Amy]

No, I think you answered all the questions I had and then some. Actually. It's exciting to hear about this barista fire aspect of the fire movement. That's really cool. And I'm actually really on fire. Ha ha. To go out and get myself a certified financial planner and get started. I'm really excited about that. So thank you. This has been really helpful and calming.

[Sean Pyles]

Well, Amy, thank you for coming on and please keep us updated on how everything goes for you and your husband.

[Amy]

Will do.

[Sean Pyles]

And that's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we are here to answer your money questions. So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. You can also email [e-mail] youm can follow the show on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

[Elizabeth Ayola]

And here is our brief discussion disclaimer that you love to hear. We are not financial or investment advisors. This nerdy information is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and it may not apply to your specific circumstances. This episode was produced by Sean and Tess Vigelin. Hilary Georgi helped with editing. Megan Maurer mixed our audio and a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

[Sean Pyles]

And with that said, until next time, turn to the Nerds.