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NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Will AI Take Your Job—or Just Your Time? Plus, Rebuilding Credit After Debt Consolidation
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- [00:00]
Sean Files
Today's episode is sponsored by Quint. So, Elizabeth, I've noticed that you've been stepping up your summer wardrobe game recently.
- [00:07]
Elizabeth Ayola
Ooh, you noticed? Why, thank you, Sean. I have to give Quint credit for that. Quint has become my summer mvp.
- [00:14]
Sean Files
Same here. I've been practically living in all of their silk. I've entered my silk era. Got a silk tank top, silk shorts, a silk cotton blend shirt. It is the best. They somehow work for everything from backyard hangs to pretending that I know how to order wine at a nice restaurant.
- [00:31]
Elizabeth Ayola
And the best part? You're not paying that luxury brand tax. Quint's cuts out the middleman so you get high end stuff without the eye watering markup. It's like your closet just got a raise.
- [00:42]
Sean Files
And Quint only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices so you can look good and feel good inside and out.
- [00:51]
Elizabeth Ayola
Well, I've gotten some tank tops from Quint. I'm building a time capsule wardrobe and wanted 100% cotton tops that would last. More recently though, I purchased some 14 karat gold hoop earrings and a 100% linen pink shirt for my son, which should help with the summer heat. I wear these often and you should too.
- [01:10]
Sean Files
So stick to the staples that last with elevated essentials from quints. Go to quince.com smartmoney for free shipping and 365 day returns.
- [01:19]
Elizabeth Ayola
That's Q-U-I-N C E.com smartmoney quint.com smartmoney.
- [01:28]
Sean Files
If you've been wondering about when AI is coming for your job and your finances, today we're talking about how to make AI your buddy instead of your enemy in both. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Files.
- [01:50]
Elizabeth Ayola
And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. Later on this episode, we're going to be discussing a question about how to get out of some serious, serious debt trouble and rebuild your credit. But first and foremost, our weekly money news roundup where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money. Our news colleague Anna Helchi is back. And Ana, today we're going there. We're hearing all about how to prepare for the AI revolution.
- [02:18]
Ana Helchi
Well, it's coming for us all, Elizabeth.
- [02:21]
Elizabeth Ayola
Full steam ahead, Ana. Now if it could just fix my car AC for free, all will be well in my world.
- [02:28]
Ana Helchi
Well, it can't do that. Not yet. But the experts are saying that the speed at which AI is learning and becoming integral to our futures is getting faster and faster. So let's try and be prepared and learn how to use it in our lives, including our financial lives.
- [02:43]
Sean Files
From everything I'm reading, this revolution is coming fast and furious. Even though, frankly, it doesn't really feel like it yet. I don't feel like my life has changed significantly since, say, ChatGPT was introduced. But that said, I know it's something that I need to be ready for.
- [02:59]
Ana Helchi
Exactly. So we've invited Maria Curie, technology policy reporter for Axios, into our virtual recording studio here to help us figure out where this all fits, especially into our financial lives. Maria, welcome.
- [03:11]
Maria Curie
Hey, thanks for having me.
- [03:12]
Ana Helchi
A recent Axios piece by your two founders, Jim Vande Hei and Mike Allen, basically said that every US Citizen should start prepping for AI advancements that are just around the bend. First, I'm hoping you can talk about the generative AI landscape in general. This technology is progressing so quickly. What exactly is around the bend?
- [03:31]
Maria Curie
The general landscape that I would point to is full steam ahead, with very little guardrails or regulations in place. So you have all of the biggest tech companies and startups in this fierce competition. They're regularly rolling out new chatbots, new products. They're increasingly getting more advanced. And in the meantime, we're not really seeing lawmakers or regulators step in to slow that down. And so it does have the potential to have a big impact on the job market in terms of what is around the bend, exactly. Just these increasingly sophisticated models that could eventually lead to very significant job displacement. And so the idea is to start learning now how to use these products and be prepared for that job displacement.
- [04:21]
Ana Helchi
And how are workplaces adapting to all of this?
- [04:24]
Maria Curie
Well, in a few ways. So first and foremost, they are incorporating this technology into their workflows. They see it as an opportunity to cut costs and increase productivity. A lot of companies are also doing workforce training and these upskilling programs to have employees learn how to use this technology effectively in their respective roles. They're also coming up with entirely new roles given this new technology. So you could have a head of AI technology in your company. AT&T, for example, is one company that is doing this, and this is an entirely new managerial role to kind of bring all of the different teams together and make sure that it's being used effectively. And then lastly, the way that companies are adapting to this, frankly, is through layoffs. So you have a lot of people that already have been laid off for Example, Microsoft has laid off 6,000 people. Most of them were engineers. And so that is another way that companies are reacting.
- [05:24]
Ana Helchi
Axios has pointed to some real doomer warnings like those made by Dario Amadei, who's CEO of the AI company Anthropic. And Amadei projects that in the next five to 10 years, AI could wipe out half of all entry level white collar jobs. And he also said that unemployment could soar up to 20%. So let's unpack that a little bit. First of all, what are the white collar professions that he's referencing and how would some of those jobs be impacted?
- [05:50]
Maria Curie
So we're talking about entry level jobs mostly, and these are in the tech sectors, finance, law, consulting. It could be analyst positions, coding positions, paralegals. These entry level positions that folks are looking for right out of college in terms of how the jobs are being impacted, in addition to the actual layoffs, those jobs are then not being backfilled, they're not being posted online. And so you have a lot of people that are graduating right now that don't have as many opportunities as they used to.
- [06:22]
Ana Helchi
We don't know for certain that it will come to pass. It could be that bad, or he could be way off the mark. So what's a less dramatic projection?
- [06:30]
Maria Curie
I think another view here is just more about augmentation versus automation, where we're seeing a future where workers are using these tools to help make their lives easier at work and they're not being totally displaced by it. But some of the menial tasks that they're doing can now be replaced by some of these tools. They have more time now for creativity, for more high level tasks. And you know, that is the more positive outlook on these things. But as we just noted, we do have people that are getting laid off right now as we speak.
- [07:03]
Ana Helchi
Like any emerging technology, AI can be something to fear or something to use. In this case, it seems like it's a little bit of both. Now I use generative AI all the time and for me it's mainly a starting point for research and I've even used it to copy edit. So Maria, are you currently using generative AI in your work?
- [07:21]
Maria Curie
Oh yeah, definitely. And I mentioned earlier the upskilling piece that these various companies are doing at Axios. There's been a really concerted effort to also encourage us to use these tools. And so I'm definitely taking advantage. I use ChatGPT to come up with questions. I then have to refine them of course, but I use it to do a News gathering. If I want to know the latest on a specific topic, I'll tell ChatGPT to give me a list of the most relevant and most recent news articles on it. I use Otter's chatbot function. If I have a really long interview that's like an hour long and I just want to get to a specific part in it, I'll say, hey, what did this person say about this topic? And it'll give me a quick summary. But of course, you always have to check it because it's not right every single time.
- [08:06]
Ana Helchi
That's a good tip. I'm going to use that. What are some of the other ways that white collar workers are using AI?
- [08:11]
Maria Curie
Drafting emails. You could have a meeting summary formulated for you. You can have it come up with an entire agenda. If you have some sort of work event that you need to organize throughout the day. Timelines for projects. It's a really handy tool for some of these, you know, more boring tasks.
- [08:30]
Ana Helchi
Does any of this apply to blue collar work as well? And what does that look like?
- [08:34]
Maria Curie
Not nearly as much. You can imagine a plumber, for example, using a voice assistant to get some guidance on how to repair something in your home. But even then, you know, we know that these voice assistants, that technology is not that great. Another example, you have Amazon or UPS potentially using generative AI to make delivery routes more efficient, but that's not going to replace the actual human being that's driving that truck and delivering that package to your home. So it's having tangential effects, but to a much lesser degree.
- [09:06]
Ana Helchi
And are there any unexpected ways that people are deploying these tools? From a personal finance perspective, how are people using AI for advice?
- [09:15]
Maria Curie
So sometimes there are really complicated terms that maybe the average person doesn't fully understand. You could go in and you can say, hey, what's an index fund? Or maybe you're filing your taxes and you have this weird requirement and TurboTax isn't telling you what it really means. Or if you want to know, you have to pay for their chat function. You can go into one of these other free tools and say, can you explain to me what I'm supposed to do here? You could also give it scenarios. So let's say I want to have X amount of money saved up by this time next year. I could go into ChatGPT and say, hey, analyze my spending habits. What behaviors do I need to change or adjust in order to have this goal met? So these are different ways that the bot could help.
- [09:56]
Ana Helchi
It seems like the big thing is what you're putting into it. Right, the prompts. What are some best practices for crafting those prompts?
- [10:04]
Maria Curie
I think it's an iterative process, so start with something, but then get ready to fine tune and give it more specific instructions as you go. It does get better that way. And then, of course, always cross check the results. They're not always correct. And so you want to make sure that you are verifying the information that you're getting.
- [10:23]
Ana Helchi
We know that AI chatbots have a habit of fabricating information, what's known as hallucinations. Can you explain a little bit more what hallucinations are in this context and how people can think critically about the advice they're receiving? That's essentially coming from a robot.
- [10:37]
Maria Curie
In this specific context, the chatbot could be coming up with a fake tax law. It could be giving you inaccurate math. It could be pulling from a source that isn't really reliable. And so the cross checking is really, really important. And you could also prompt it to say, show me your math. How did you come to this specific number? Or you can say, cite your source. It's a really great way to get started, but it's not the end all, be all yet.
- [11:03]
Ana Helchi
And when it comes to inputting your own financial data into one of these systems, and I am talking about large language learning models or LLMs, I'd be pretty worried about privacy. Are there meaningful differences in privacy protections that are offered by some of the most popular tools?
- [11:19]
Maria Curie
All of these tools are gathering your data and then using it to train their models, and they are keeping that data. And so it's not private by default. They do have. These are all of the major chatbots. They do have an option to opt out of keeping the data there and then using it to train their models, but they don't make it easy. It's hard to figure out how to do it. Exactly, exactly. And so I think the best thing to do at this point is to not import your raw financial data into these chatbots. I would strongly advise against it, and I think these companies would too, especially because cybercriminals are also increasingly getting access to this technology. And so we're just not at a place yet where that is wise. And keep your financial advisor, don't fire them.
- [12:07]
Ana Helchi
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And what's your advice for anyone who thinks either A, this will never apply to me, or B, this is just too much for my brain to handle, so I'm just not gonna bother? I think there are a lot of people in both camps, so what do you say to them, as someone who's watching this revolution very closely, it's understandable.
- [12:25]
Maria Curie
And people are busy and this is something that they're maybe watching on the news, but they're going about their daily lives. And so I can totally understand why they would feel this way. I think start small. You don't have to become an engineer overnight. That's certainly not a realistic expectation or that you should ever have to do. But just download the app, start there, just start playing with it, and then hopefully you're also working somewhere where systemically the place that you're working at is helping you in this way. The second thing that I would point out too is lately in a lot of these conversations, we've been talking about our responsibility as individuals to come to terms with this technology. But we also have elected officials that are supposed to have our best interest at heart. And so pay attention to what your elected officials are talking about. AI and tech is not usually what's going to sway an election, but jobs certainly do. And so if you want representation in government so that this transition is more manageable, start paying attention to these folks that are running for office and are in office.
- [13:29]
Ana Helchi
All right, thanks so much for joining us today to talk AI Maria.
- [13:32]
Maria Curie
Thank you.
- [13:33]
Elizabeth Ayola
And thank you, Ana. I certainly have learned a lot from this conversation and I think my biggest takeaway is that AI can be used as an effective thought partner. And as with every thought partner, it should be challenged. I also think it can be key in helping to up level your skills. And also great for research.
- [13:52]
Sean Files
Yeah, and on a tactical level, I found it really helpful. As I've been starting my financial planning firm, I had to establish a contract for my clients. And guess what? I'm not an attorney. I'd never written a contract before, so I was able to use it to pull from various contracts that I saw on the Internet streamline. Some things highlight parts that I wanted to emphasize and it looked pretty good. But I did have my friend who's an attorney look it over and guess what? She had many edits. So it's a trust but verify situation for right now.
- [14:20]
Elizabeth Ayola
All right, up next, we answer listeners question about how to rebuild your credit after going through debt consolidation. But before we get into that, a reminder to send us your money. Questions. Do you want to know the smartest way to budget for your summer vacation? Or are you in the market for a new credit card but maybe not sure how to find one that's best for you? Whatever your question is, you can pop us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. Again, if you missed it, it's 901-730-Nerd. For those who prefer email, you can pop us an email@podcastnerdwallet.com in a moment.
- [14:58]
Sean Files
This episode's Money question stay with us. Today's episode is sponsored by LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you don't exactly get to clock out at 5 p. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that's as relentless as you are. LinkedIn jobs can be that partner. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your jobs for free, share it with your network, and manage qualified candidates all in one place. Here's how it works. First, post your job. LinkedIn's new tools can help you write the description and quickly get it in front of the right people, thanks to deep candidate insights. Then get qualified candidates. Because at the end of the day, it's not just about filling a role, it's about finding the right person. And based on LinkedIn data, 72% of SMB say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates. Finally, spread the word. Share your job with your network. You can even add a hiring frame to your profile picture to attract twice as many qualified candidates. It's like putting a Help Wanted sign on your storefront, but, you know, way more professional. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com smartmoney that's LinkedIn.com smartmoney to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. What is Daddication? The thing that drives me every day as a dad is Dariana. We call him Day Date for short. Every day he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge. And there's this huge responsibility in making sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to sit back one day and go, we worked together. We did a good job.
- [16:36]
Elizabeth Ayola
That's dedication.
- [16:37]
Maria Curie
Find out more@fatherhood.gov Brought to you by.
- [16:39]
Sean Files
The U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. We are back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from Sarah, who sent us an email. Here it is. About a year ago I began working with a debt consolidation company. I have paid off one credit card and now the other is being worked on, but my credit score has tanked. I'm talking it was about 720 and is currently 553. What advice do you have about getting the score back up?
- [17:08]
Elizabeth Ayola
To help us answer Sarah's question on this episode of the podcast, we are joined by personal finance nerd Amanda Barroso. Hi Amanda, welcome back.
- [17:18]
Amanda Barroso
Hi friends. Happy to be back here with you.
- [17:21]
Elizabeth Ayola
First of all, let's get into what debt consolidation is. Amanda, can you give us a Brief Debt Consolidation 101 Debt consolidation is simply.
- [17:32]
Amanda Barroso
When multiple debt like credit card bills or other high interest debt are rolled into a single monthly payment using a new product. So usually a loan or a credit card. So the idea is to get a lower interest rate to lower your total debt, and combining multiple payments into a single one can prevent you from missing a payment.
- [17:52]
Sean Files
And let's talk about who is a good candidate for debt consolidation. What are your thoughts here? Amanda?
- [17:57]
Amanda Barroso
This approach is great for folks who have a manageable amount of debt, but they've got high interest rates and want to just simplify their monthly payments. Ideally, they'd also have a fair or good credit score, which will help them qualify for lower interest rates when they consolidate. Having a steady income is also really important because that makes it more likely that they can afford to make the monthly payments on time. That that reliability is key. Payment history. You know, we emphasize this so much because it's the most important credit scoring factor. So when FICO or Vantage Score calculate your credit scores, payment history, or, you know, that record of you paying your bills on time every month, it weighs the most in that calculation. So being able to make on time payments every month is critical.
- [18:42]
Sean Files
Amanda, you mentioned having a manageable amount of debt. At NerdWallet, we've put a lot of thought into how we define what's manageable. So can you lay out what that is for our listeners?
- [18:53]
Amanda Barroso
Debt is typically manageable when monthly debt payments don't exceed 50% of your monthly gross income. And gross income is just how much you're paid before payroll deductions, like healthcare, retirement savings, all of that good stuff is taken out. For example, if your monthly gross income is $5,000 and your monthly debt payments are $1,000, then that's a manageable amount of debt.
- [19:17]
Elizabeth Ayola
Sarah used a debt consolidation company to help her. Amanda, can you tell us how they differ from nonprofit credit counseling agencies? I know nonprofits may charge lower. They also might provide free resources and services like debt management plans, which can help people pay off their debt faster. They also may offer financial education, which I personally think is important. But if you don't address the root issue, you're likely to be more vulnerable, to fall into the debt again.
- [19:45]
Amanda Barroso
I think you're exactly right, Elizabeth. Financial education is a key difference between the two options. I should also note that working with a non profit credit counselor doesn't require you to open a new loan to pay off your debts, which some debt consolidation companies require. Like we mentioned earlier. Earlier.
- [20:01]
Sean Files
And I want to clarify some of the language around debt consolidation and how it's different from debt settlement, which is what it seems like Sarah actually did. Debt settlement is technically a form of debt consolidation, but it's not a great one, in my opinion. With debt settlement, you partner with a debt settlement company and instead of making payments to your creditors, you direct all of your payments to that debt settlement company instead. This company will then contact your creditors on your behalf and try to strike a deal to settle your debt. It can be really risky because while you divert your payments to the debt settlement company, you're likely racking up late payments on your credit report, which can sink your credit score, which I think is what we saw here with Sarah. This can also leave you vulnerable to lawsuits from your creditors. Now, debt consolidation from a nonprofit credit counseling agency or from a financial product like a balance transfer credit card can impact your credit too, but at least they'll keep you in good standing with your creditors. Right? So, Amanda, can you talk about how these are better forms of debt consolidation could also lead to a drop in your credit score? Potentially.
- [21:07]
Amanda Barroso
There could be a few factors contributing to Sarah's credit score drop. Like you said, she could have missed payments before or during the enrollment process. With that debt consolidation program, her credit utilization could have also changed. So we talk about this credit utilization ratio. It's just a fancy way of describing the amount of available credit that you're using at any given time. So in the credit space, there's this like 30% threshold rule where we say it's important to use 30% or less of your available credit. And when that number shoots above 30%, your score tends to drop. And to give you some context, people with the highest score, so Excellent scores use 10% or less of their available credit. So that's kind of the goal. Her score might have also dropped if any of her accounts were closed by the debt consolidation company. So, like, there's a lot of factors in play. The thing with credit scores that I've learned, you know, all these years writing about this is that it's just so specific to your individual circumstance. But those are some of my guesses.
- [22:10]
Elizabeth Ayola
Is there any way that Sarah can figure out which of these cause her credit score to tank. I know when my score drops, I use Experian and it tells me why on my end. So I usually log in and then I click on my credit score and then there's a line that says what's changed? And then I click on what's changed to see what's changed.
- [22:29]
Amanda Barroso
That's a super great tip. That's like a very low lift way to maybe get an idea. And then she can pull her credit reports to dive deeper. So you can get free weekly copies of your credit reports from experian, Equifax and TransUnion using annual credit report dot com. When she pulls those credit reports and she should pull all three, she should look for missed payment account information like closed accounts or even accounts she doesn't recognize, higher balances on accounts or a hard inquiry. Sometimes there are codes on your credit report that you can look up to kind of uncover a potential issue. So like get the Nancy Drew cap on. Each credit bureau has an encyclopedia of those codes and what they mean. So Google is definitely your friend here. If she has any credit monitoring tools. These could also be really useful. You know, like as Elizabeth said, I also get alerts through my banking app about increases or decreases in my score.
- [23:28]
Sean Files
So debt consolidation could also, counterintuitively to Sarah's question, help your credit score. Can you talk about a few ways where this might be the case?
- [23:35]
Amanda Barroso
So simplifying multiple payments into a single monthly payment can make it easier to pay your bills on time. So remember payment history. It's a critical part of your credit score calculations. Making on time payments on the newly consolidated debt will really help build your credit over time. I know Sarah mentioned that she's paid off one credit card already, and that's a step in the right direction toward lowering that overall credit utilization. Her score should continue to improve as she continues to pay down her debt and push that credit utilization number below 30%. Consolidation can also help diversify your credit types. So if you take out a debt consolidation loan to pay off your debt, that loan adds to your credit mix, which can help your credit score. Or if you don't have any credit cards, a balance transfer card will add diversity to your credit profile. So there are some ways that, like you said, it's kind of counterintuitive, but it can help your score.
- [24:30]
Sean Files
Let's really get to the core of Sarah's question, which is about how they can get their score back up from where it is now in the mid-500s to hopefully 700 and above.
- [24:41]
Amanda Barroso
Excellent credit scores are the result of consistent behaviors over time. So for example, making on time payments and pushing that utilization lower and lower should really help. The key is not to add any more debt to the pile. So if she hasn't already, Sarah should work with her debt consolidation company to make a plan to stay out of debt. Implementing budgeting and behavior changes, as Elizabeth mentioned earlier, is really the only way to prevent this from happening again. And of course, NerdWallet has a ton of budgeting resources that could be really helpful for Sarah moving forward.
- [25:13]
Sean Files
And now let's talk about some options to debt consolidation in terms of how Sarah could pay off their debt and also raise their credit score. What other options are on the table?
- [25:23]
Amanda Barroso
There are some do it yourself options. Folks with good or excellent credit can typically apply for a balance transfer card that offers zero percent interest for like a set period of time. Typically they're between 12 to 18 months. And this is a great option for people with a good score who have mostly credit card debt and can follow through with a plan that they've created themselves. So in other words, there's no outside accountability for making sure that they're making those payments by the end of the 0% term, because when that term ends, that interest rate's going to shoot up. It's big trouble. So this is for folks who are super self motivated. Most credit card companies also have what's called a hardship program. People can contact their lenders directly to see if they qualify for a lower interest rate or waive fees. Typically those are people who have had maybe a medical emergency, people who've experienced a natural disaster, a divorce, a sudden job loss. I'm not sure exactly what Sarah's circumstances are, but maybe something like this is still on the table.
- [26:22]
Elizabeth Ayola
And we touched on this earlier. But let's go a little deeper into credit counseling and the debt management plans offered by nonprofit credit counsel agencies. Because I'm a big fan of these services.
- [26:33]
Amanda Barroso
Working with a credit counselor is another way to go. I'd look for nonprofit credit counseling agencies first because they usually review your financial situation in your first session for free, which is huge. The national foundation for Credit Counseling is an example of a nonprofit agency that has a really strong reputation. So that might be a good place to start. From there, you might be enrolled in a debt management plan and set up a structured repayment plan that doesn't require a debt consolidation loan loan. So your monthly payments go to the counseling agency and then they pay creditors on your behalf. Credit counseling services that aren't non profits typically charge an enrollment fee and a monthly fee, but people's monthly payments are still typically lower than they were before consolidating. So this is a great option for people who would like professional guidance and accountability along the way.
- [27:22]
Elizabeth Ayola
Tell us some red flags for companies offering debt consolidation or debt settlement services.
- [27:28]
Amanda Barroso
The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has a list of things that you should be on the lookout for when researching debt settlement companies. So for example, if the company charges any fees before it settles your debt or tells you it can stop all debt collection calls or lawsuits, don't work with them. Those are for sure red flags. Also, avoid companies that promote like some new government program to bail out credit card debt or guarantee that they can make your debt go away. Likely false promises Red Flags I would definitely look the other way. You can look up a company's profile with the Better Business Bureau and you can read company reviews as sort of a starting point. Most states even require debt settlement companies to carry licenses, so you can look them up to see if they're legitimate. Make sure they're licensed by your state that you live in. Ultimately, though, NerdWallet doesn't recommend debt settlement companies because there is so much risk involved and this particular area of financial services is so riddled with scammers. The only time we recommend the use of debt settlement companies is if someone doesn't feel like they can use one of those do it yourself approaches or they're going to be very late, like 90 days or more on debt payments or they're ineligible for credit counseling. And if bankruptcy isn't even an option, then using a debt settlement company might be the last resort.
- [28:48]
Elizabeth Ayola
Now we know that Sarah is already with a debt consolidation company. Is it possible for them to transition that process to one of the nonprofits? Is there anything that they can do to get out of that situation in addition to just getting the debt paid off?
- [29:03]
Sean Files
I would encourage Sarah to look at the terms of their contract with this debt consolidation or debt settlement company, whichever it is, and see whether there is a way out without fully resolving their debt. And if there is, I would encourage them to pursue other options. I know that sometimes sunk cost fallacy can be really hard to get out of. You think that you've spent so much time working with this company, you might as well just see it all the way through when in the long run you may be better off cutting your losses and pivoting to working with an organization that can get you in better standing with your creditors. And that's exactly what a nonprofit credit counseling agency would do. In the meantime, I would encourage Sarah or anyone else trying to build their credit score to do exactly what Amanda outlined earlier is make those payments on time, keep your credit utilization low. All those things that we know help people build a healthy credit score over the long run. But in general for Sarah, just take it one step at a time and try to work through this debt in the best, most affordable and least lawsuit inviting way possible.
- [30:02]
Elizabeth Ayola
Feller tips.
- [30:03]
Sean Files
Sean, thank you. Well, Amanda, is there anything else that you think listeners and Sarah should know about how to get their credit score out of a deep debt consolidation induced rut?
- [30:14]
Amanda Barroso
This is really tough. I think the biggest thing that Sarah should keep in mind is that when it comes to credit score consistency is the name of the game. So consistent payments, consistent behaviors, keeping debt low just kind of slow and steady wins the race. I know it. Sometimes it can feel unfair when your score drops suddenly and you're hoping for the reverse, like a quick fix, a fast way to boost it. And unfortunately that's just really challenging to do. So I think vigilance, getting those credit reports, keeping an eye on things yourself, not just totally relying on the company that you're working with to do that, but to like, this is your chance to really dig in and understand your finances, understand what goes into your credit score, understand how your behaviors can impact that score. And this is a space to dig into that accountability to take ownership. And I think in a lot of ways, Sarah will probably come out of this feeling empowered and really in control.
- [31:16]
Elizabeth Ayola
I feel empowered and in control after that. Amanda, thank you.
- [31:20]
Amanda Barroso
Thanks, Elizabeth.
- [31:22]
Sean Files
Well, Amanda, thank you for coming on and talking with us about this.
- [31:24]
Amanda Barroso
Oh, I appreciate you guys having me.
- [31:26]
Sean Files
That is all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we are here to answer your money questions. So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-N-E R D. You can also email us at podcastnerdwallet.com join us next time to hear a listener's question about withdrawing from their retirement accounts to pay off their debt. Follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.
- [31:58]
Elizabeth Ayola
And here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisor. This nerdy information is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes, and it may not apply to your specific circumstances. This episode was produced by Tess Vigelin and Anna Helhosky. Hilary Georgi helped with editing. Nick Karisami mixed our audio. And a big thank you to Nerdwallis editors for all their help.
- [32:22]
Sean Files
And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.