← Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF
Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF
AI Billionaire Lucy Guo's Guide to Building Unicorns and Scaling Wealth in Silicon Valley
00:44:15
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- [00:00]
Lucy Guel
I think AI is going to continue to enhance people's work. A lot of the more tedious tasks that people are doing, they can no longer do and they can focus on the harder problems. So one example I like to give is lawyers, right Where AI is going to help them reduce the amount of time that they're spending reading documents. It'll help them figure out where the loopholes are in the argument and then they can work on figuring out a solution.
- [00:23]
Vivian Tu
But am I going to be out of a job? Is AI taking my job?
- [00:26]
Lucy Guel
I mean.
- [00:36]
Vivian Tu
What'S up, rich friends? Welcome back to another episode of Net Worth and Chill with me. Your host, Vivian Tu, AKA Urich, bff and your favorite Wall street girly. Hate it or love it, it's hard to ignore that AI is going to be a part of our future. Whether it's delivery apps managing orders more quickly, cars having better safety features, or frankly driving themselves, or even financial institutions monitoring markets faster than ever, AI is here to stay. And I've only recently gotten into learning about how it can improve my work. But today's guest is an entrepreneur and mogul who has been in the AI game for far longer than most of the tech bros you see in the news. As the founder and CEO of my own business, I know just how hard it is to get any new venture off the ground. And I think I've accomplished a lot. But my special guest puts me to shame. She's the co founder of Scale AI, the founder of Passes, and having recently just passed Taylor Swift, she is now the youngest self made woman billionaire in the world. Everyone, please welcome Lucy Guel.
- [01:39]
Lucy Guel
Hi, I'm Lucy. And don't worry, I'm sure your liquid Net worth is still higher than mine.
- [01:44]
Vivian Tu
We'll get into that today. But Lucy, before we get into all things, Passes, money, entrepreneurship, I have to ask you an icebreaker question. And this is actually something that I've personally been very curious about because we're friends on social media.
- [01:56]
Lucy Guel
Yes.
- [01:57]
Vivian Tu
What's the obsession with Barry's bootcamp? Sometimes I see you there like four or five times a day. What's going on? Support for this show comes from pure leaf iced tea. When you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need pure leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshing, refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.
- [02:35]
Lucy Guel
Okay, well, I was going four or five times a day. I was actually did it seven times in one day on a Sunday because there's a worldwide competition and I wanted to get number one in the world because I'm very competitive as a human being. Other than that, like, I usually go two to three times a day and I think it's really like I just enjoy it. It's such a routine for me in the day. You know, I wake up early, early. By the time I'm done working out, I like people are still waking up, right. Which is really cool for me. I feel more productive in the day. I think that working out is an extra cup of coffee for me, really an extra three cups of coffee in terms of energy. So it really helps me start the day and I think it helps me last longer in a day so I'm able to work until midnight and not be tired. And I love music and it's a rave. Every time I go to Barry's in the morning I go and it's like a dark red room. There's like EDM music playing and it's just a lot of adrenaline.
- [03:27]
Vivian Tu
This actually sounds like my nightmare. Waking up early to go to a rave. Like my idea of a good workout is probably like 5, 6pm it like is almost like a treat after the day's over. But I want to pivot and talk a little bit about your money. It's a money show. We gotta get there.
- [03:45]
Lucy Guel
Let's do it.
- [03:46]
Vivian Tu
You have officially been named my mom's favorite chat. No, I'm just kidding. You have officially been named the youngest self made woman billionaire in the world at only 30 years old. When I found out you were younger than me, I felt severe, severe jealousy. Can you share a little bit about how your relationship with money has changed over the years as your success has grown?
- [04:10]
Lucy Guel
Honestly, it hasn't really changed much like even to this day. Like for lunch today I went on Uber Eats. I clicked offers and I chose which I could get the best deal for. That seemed like a good balance. Balance between Chinese food and money off. I think that like there was a period of time when I like first hit a little bit of liquidity where I was like, okay, cool. Like I need to like save up and invest this so I can like fat fire. Essentially I did that. And then I think around like Covid, I realized like, okay, cool. Like now I have a Decent amount of money in my bank account. And I wanted to run, like, a social experiment because I like, made friends with like, the first splashy person I've ever met. And I saw how much nicer people treated him because they just like, thought he was wealthy, right? And I was like, wearing like Walmart basically and Shein all the time at this point, like, I, like, nobody knew, like, how much I had. I was like, basically still ordering like, Uber X's, uber pools, et cetera. Like, let me experiment. I have this money. I experimented for a little bit and it was like, mind blowing to me. I was like, wow, people in this world really care about money. Because suddenly everyone was much nicer to me. Like, places where, like, they wouldn't let in, where they would, like, literally shoo me away. Like, we're like, oh my God, yeah, come in, like, no questions asked, like clubs, for example, in la. And I was like, wow, this is like, shocking just because I'm dressed nicer. So I definitely went through like a little splashy phase. And then I got bored of the experiment. And like, afterwards, like, let's call like a few months. It lasted like six months. I was like, oh, wow. Like, everyone just like, like everyone knows now, so I don't need to do this anymore. And I'm back there where I am like, Shein. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:46]
Vivian Tu
Do you feel like you, like, where did those habits of being super frugal come from? Like, you're literally the world's youngest female billionaire. Why are you still trying to get Buy one Get One offers on Uber Eats?
- [06:01]
Lucy Guel
I mean, I don't like the concept of wasting money. So when I get Buy one Get ones, it makes me feel good about, like, I'm getting a deal, right? Like, I'm the type of person where you could probably trick into like, up marking an item, but if I think I'm getting 50% off, I'm like, okay, this is incredible. But I like to think of, like, every doll spent as like, an investment. I think a lot of this comes just like, from my family upbringing. My parents always emphasized, like, saving money, investing money. And they were extremely frugal. Like, I definitely think they lived below their means because they could definitely afford, like, air conditioning as two software engineers or two electrical engineers. But, like, did we have air conditioning? Like, no, they wouldn't turn on air conditioning, right? They were just like, oh, just like, bundle in more clothes or like, strip off more clothes. And I'm like, there's only so much clothes I can strip. Mom and dad.
- [06:48]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, like I can't take off my skin.
- [06:49]
Lucy Guel
Exact. Yeah. But I think that, like, those values really, like, became ingrained in me and. Yeah. Like, I, to this day, like, still kind of live by them. Like, I always try to find, like, little travel hacks, et cetera. Like, why spend the money if I don't need to? But, like, you know, I'll, like, treat myself sometimes. Like, I will buy caviar because caviar is delicious. But, like, will I try to find the cheapest caviar that doesn't taste disgusting? Yes.
- [07:11]
Vivian Tu
Okay, so you're optimizing. I love that.
- [07:13]
Lucy Guel
Yes.
- [07:14]
Vivian Tu
You talk about your parents being two electrical engineers and being very frugal. Like, what was money like growing up? Like, what was that relationship with your parents and, like, asking them for money or an allowance or anything like that?
- [07:27]
Lucy Guel
I mean, I definitely did not get an allowance. They did, like, give me, like, you know, like, 10 bucks, 20 bucks here, depending on, like, they're like, oh, if you, like, you know, do really, really well on your report card, we'll give you, like, $20. Right. But, like, I remember I was, like, bullied in school for not wearing certain brands. And I was like, oh, like, can I, like, buy, like, this brand? I remember a girl literally told me word for word, she was like, oh, if you wore, like, Hollister, you'd be cool, but you're not wearing hol. You're wearing Walmart clothes. And I was like, ouch. So I, like, I would ask for these things. They were just like, oh, like, it's not smart to spend money on that. Or like, I think they, like, fake pretended like they couldn't afford it. So, like, I would say I felt like we grew up very middle class, you know, like, small home, like, normal neighborhood, et cetera. But I could. I think my parents also did, like, well, in the sense that, like, they saved up and they invested and they were, like, able to get into, like, the upper middle class. And I saw this transition from, like, when I was born until, like, now. Right? Yeah.
- [08:22]
Vivian Tu
And you mentioned earlier that your billionaire status still doesn't mean that you have as much liquidity as I would. So for everybody listening who doesn't know what that word means, liquidity is essentially liquid cash, basically dollars in your bank account that you are able to spend today. Talk to me about that. What does it mean to be rich on paper? Why do you say that? And what is that versus, you know, actual billionaire status?
- [08:48]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. So rich on paper is, like, your net worth is in illiquid assets. Yeah. So honestly, Like, I think a lot of people are rich on paper in terms of artwork. Even where it's like, it's not necessarily as easy to like move a Bosquia piece, for example, unless you were to take a significant discount, you would probably need to. It would take some time to sell it at full price. Yes, I would say that like, for my shares, could I become liquid if I wanted to? Like, yeah, yes. But I would say.
- [09:14]
Vivian Tu
And so the, the large majority of your wealth, what is that coming from?
- [09:19]
Lucy Guel
I would say in terms of my liquid wealth, it would be investments that I've made. Otherwise it is definitely in just like private company stock and both like scale and passes.
- [09:27]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what does like that feel like for you on a day to day basis? Like not having that? Does that stress you out? Do you want to liquidate? Is that a plan in the future?
- [09:38]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, like, my lifestyle doesn't require that much. Like I'm happy flying, like commercial. I think food is yummier when you go into hole in the walls and like nice fancy restaurants. I would say, like, the one thing that like really makes me want to liquidate is flying private is really nice. I've done it a few times. I've like splurged a few times. And like, you know when your flight's delayed like five hours, you're just like, man, it'd be really nice to own a pj.
- [10:07]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [10:07]
Lucy Guel
And those are moments where I'm like, like, I've like literally looked it up because like, I guess theoretically if I wanted to buy a PJ right now, I could. It's just maintenance costs. Am I going to justify like the $2 million a year, like maintaining that jet?
- [10:19]
Vivian Tu
It costs $2 million a year to maintain a jet.
- [10:22]
Lucy Guel
Yes, it costs like $2 million a year to maintain a jet. And it's like, okay, cool. Like, even if you charter out the jet, you're still most likely losing money. I've like quite literally been doing so much research on like, is there a jet I can get that can charter out enough where I'm breaking even? Ish.
- [10:36]
Vivian Tu
Okay.
- [10:36]
Lucy Guel
The answer is potentially if you get a Challenger 350 and it's based in LA because LA can demand higher charter fees and there's like more. Yeah, and there's like more demand and supply. Less supply, more demand.
- [10:50]
Vivian Tu
I feel like this is kind of like a marriage of like your two sides. Like one, this like very eccentric, fun, outgoing, wants to be everywhere, wants to party, wants to do that half of, like, wanting the private jet. But also you're very, like, logical, analytical, frugal. Side, that's like, I'm gonna do all of the research, build an Excel sheet, see if I can make the math work on this. But, like, I feel like that's like a perfect representation of who you are.
- [11:17]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I think so. I mean, like, I like, you know, it's organized fun.
- [11:20]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. Oh, organized fun. Okay. That's a good one. Speaking of organized fun, dropping out of school, that's pretty organized fun. Probably not what your parents wanted you to do. Oh, definitely not. But when you dropped out of school, you actually found it. Co founded Scale AI, which is now valued at an eye watering $25 billion1. How did that come about? And what made you want to be an entrepreneur?
- [11:47]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, so it actually happened because of several pivots. And eventually, like, technically, our roommates gave us the idea. They were also doing Y Combinator, but we started off with ClassPass for clubbing. And it became very clear it was a very bad idea because only VCs are signing up. So there was clearly no demand. And we're like, okay, cool, let's pivot. And then we came up with idea where it was like, okay, cool, we're going to help you find the best doctors for certain procedures. So, like, let's say you needed, like, a root canal. Like, we'd find you the best dentist for that. Or like, you needed a jaw surgery, we'd find you best doctor for that. And then it also became very clear that it was not a great idea. But, like, during this app, I was like, man, it'd be really nice to be able to, like, click a button and have someone call a doctor for us instead of, like, us having to manually call doctors and our roommates.
- [12:32]
Vivian Tu
That's very millennial of you.
- [12:33]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I mean, like, it was just like, you do things that don't scale. And like, us calling doctors all the time was not gonna sc. Um, and then our roommates are like, oh, it's like an API for humans. And at this point, I had built a lot of viral apps, and I knew that that was a controversial statement because it's, like, dehumanizing humans, essentially. So I was like, oh, wow, that, like, do you want to work on that? And he was like, no, you guys can have it. I was like, oh, great. So we, like, ran with it. We created an API over a weekend through it up Product Hunt, which is like a site where you, like, launch apps on. And then that's when VCs reached out and they're like, take our money.
- [13:04]
Vivian Tu
Okay, I have a very stupid question.
- [13:06]
Lucy Guel
Yeah.
- [13:07]
Vivian Tu
What is an API? What does scale AI do? Like, overall? And like, why is it worth so much money?
- [13:15]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. So I mean, I guess the simplest way to describe an API is like someone sends, like, they use our code and then they like send a request to us and then we send a callback back. So for example, like, if you were to use Scale API back, then you could like send something going like, okay, I want you to call like this phone number and tell Lucy how much I love her. And then we would basically. Honestly, it was like me doing it. So then I would get that and then I would do all the tasks that it asked us to do and then I would be like, okay, cool, your request was successful. I did this.
- [13:49]
Vivian Tu
Wait, but that's a human doing it.
- [13:51]
Lucy Guel
Yeah.
- [13:52]
Vivian Tu
So how did it eventually become an AI company?
- [13:54]
Lucy Guel
So scale is mainly actually based off of humans, which is very interesting. Right. So we built our company initially with self driving car labeling. So self driving car companies would send us data. So like images, videos, LIDAR data, etc. And we would like send back, oh, that's a stop sign, that's a pedestrian, that's a car on the road. And since then it's expanded. But like, the main concept of scale is that we're the picks and shovels of the AI industry and we help label your data to make your AI better.
- [14:23]
Vivian Tu
So you literally built a label maker, basically. Okay, like, why is that important?
- [14:29]
Lucy Guel
So it's important because machine learning models are only as good as the data that you feed it, like you can. So machine learning models are only as good as data if you beat it. So basically, if you taught like a ML model, like a car as a person, like, it's just gonna get it wrong. Right. So all these companies need all this data labeled to make sure that their model is accurate.
- [14:51]
Vivian Tu
Got it. Okay. Where did you learn all of this technical stuff? I mean, tech as a space, like, hasn't been particularly female friendly ever. Like, like, you're just like this young girl. Where'd you learn?
- [15:05]
Lucy Guel
I would say I started really young. Goes back to like, I guess, second grade.
- [15:10]
Vivian Tu
Second grade. I can barely walk and talk in second grade.
- [15:12]
Lucy Guel
What? Yeah, it like goes back to like wanting money. So I was like, earning cold hard cash, like, you know, doing things on the playground, like mowing lawns, et cetera. And then my parents, as punishment, realized that like, taking away my money was the best way to punish me. And I was like, oh, no, you're not gonna do that. So I discovered a thing called PayPal, and I was like, oh, you could just have money on the intern. So I basically, like, you know, bought one of those Visa debit cards from Home Depot. I opened up a PayPal account, and then I was already on the web, like, you know, playing Neopets, et cetera, entered these gaming forums.
- [15:46]
Vivian Tu
I was very rich in Neopets. I was very rich.
- [15:49]
Lucy Guel
So I would, like, you know, sell 1 million NeoPoints for $10. I would sell, like, a rare pet for, like, $500, et cetera. And I started learning how to, like, make bots, essentially, to, like, auto adopt the, like, rarest pets on the market, or, like, auto buy the rarest items in the stores, et cetera. And then I would just, like, and, like, sell it on these online gaming platforms.
- [16:08]
Vivian Tu
For real money?
- [16:08]
Lucy Guel
For real money? Yeah.
- [16:10]
Vivian Tu
Oh, my gosh. That's incredible. Wow. So you really got your coding start on Neopets.
- [16:18]
Lucy Guel
Yep.
- [16:18]
Vivian Tu
Like, you just wanted to make money.
- [16:20]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I just wanted to make money. And I also. I was, like, very addicted to Neopets. So I would, like, spend a lot of money I made, you know, trading up, so I'd be like, okay, cool. Like, I got a bunch of, like, potions. I'm going to sell these potions and then I'm going to trade it for, like, an unconverted royal crocodile.
- [16:35]
Vivian Tu
Wow, that's so incredible. You, like, you said you, like, really wanted money. Why? As a kid, I think my parents.
- [16:45]
Lucy Guel
Just emphasized money, and I think that, like, because of, like, what I was wearing, etc, people just assume, like, they're like, okay, cool, like, you're poor. And then when I asked my parents if I could, like, buy nicer things, they were just like, no. So allowing me to have money allowed me to, like, buy things. Even as an example, like, my parents are very strict, so I wasn't allowed to, like, skateboard. And I would, like, really wanted a skateboard. And, like, being able to earn my own money allowed me to, like, buy these skateboards for myself.
- [17:13]
Vivian Tu
So you wanted power, you wanted agency.
- [17:15]
Lucy Guel
I guess I just wanted things. I want to be able to do things. Right.
- [17:18]
Vivian Tu
You wanted to be able to do things. That's really interesting. And despite leaving scale AI in 2018, you held on to most of your stake, like, which is now worth nearly 1.2 billion with a B$. This is so incredible.
- [17:33]
Lucy Guel
Yeah.
- [17:33]
Vivian Tu
Like. Like, what informed that decision when so many founders end up selling part of their stake or all of their stake?
- [17:40]
Lucy Guel
I mean, I did Sell a very large portion of my stake back around, like the Series B, which is. It was probably like the worst financial mistake I've ever made in my life.
- [17:51]
Vivian Tu
Do you regret it?
- [17:52]
Lucy Guel
I don't regret it. And the only reason I don't regret it is because I invested it well. And because of that, I'm able to, like, afford a certain lifestyle that I have right now. But, like, my lifestyle just, like, hasn't really liked change. Like, yes, my expenses have gone up because, like, now I travel more. Like, I want a sabbatical for a little bit or like, I will order massive amounts of food that I don't necessarily finish sometimes. But I like, yeah, like, my lifestyle is, like, still relatively, I think, frugal relative to my net worth. And I haven't felt the need to, like, increase the spending. Like, I'm very happy where I'm at. Like, I'm comfortable where it's like, if I want like a night out to buy a table, like, I wouldn't have to, like, really think about it. Right?
- [18:31]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [18:31]
Lucy Guel
But, like, I don't need to be spending massive amounts at like Louis Vuitt on.
- [18:36]
Vivian Tu
Right.
- [18:37]
Lucy Guel
So I. Yeah, like, I just. I don't know what I would do with the money. And I think that, like, taking liquidity does have, like some downsides. So, for example, if I wanted to, like, get rid of all my shares today, I could probably do it tomorrow if I took like a 40% discount on my shares. But, like, if I don't need liquidity right now, why would I take a 40% discount on all my shares? Right. I could take a loan from a bank, which I am kind of considering, but it really depends on interest rates. Right. Like if the interest rate is like 2%, a no brainer. Yeah. If it's like 10%, like, it's not great. Less appealing. Yeah.
- [19:12]
Vivian Tu
Wait, this. Okay, so this is something that very wealthy people do all the time. And I want you to explain it for our audience. You mentioned, like, if you wanted to sell all of your shares tomorrow, you would have to take a 40 discount, meaning she would have to sell them essentially 40% off and she would get less money overall. But instead, rich people don't do that.
- [19:31]
Lucy Guel
Yep. They don't do that.
- [19:32]
Vivian Tu
They take loans against their assets.
- [19:35]
Lucy Guel
Yes.
- [19:36]
Vivian Tu
So you would potentially take a loan against some of the investments you currently have. If you were to do that, like, where would those dollars end up going? The, you know, the money that you would get from that loan?
- [19:49]
Lucy Guel
I would honestly probably just give it to different investment firms. So I'd probably give some to Morgan Stanley, some to JP Morgan. And then there's like some more boutique investment firms that will invest in like non traditional, traditional assets as well. I just want to diversify. So for example, like right now I'm not making any income or cash flow from real estate, but like if I invested in a firm, like a real estate firm. Right. Like, yeah, that could be very interesting. It's all a calculation, right? Like I actually haven't gotten interest rates back yet. They're presenting like they're doing their thing right now, but if it comes out, I can just see where I'm like, I think the like, like money that I'm putting into things will like cover the interest rate then. That's interesting.
- [20:31]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. You want to make sure that the investments from those, you know, that cash you borrowed actually pays for the interest rate that you owe, having borrowed the money.
- [20:40]
Lucy Guel
And it would be safer investments because if I did borrow money, I wouldn't want to like, let's just say I'm 30% down year to date on the market. I wouldn't. Just hypothetically.
- [20:54]
Vivian Tu
So funny you mentioned that like, you know, selling some of those scale AI shares was the worst financial decision you ever made. What would you say is the best?
- [21:02]
Lucy Guel
I think the best financial decision I've made was, I mean, like, I guess the first thing I did was when I was like younger in high school, I bought a bunch of Bitcoin. Really, $100 a coin. Most of it is gone though, because the exchange got shut down by the FBI and I never moved it to a wallet, so. Oh, well, second would probably be investing in founders. So Ramp was a really, really great financial decision. It's a company that's actually New York based. They build credit cards for companies. And that was like one of those things where I just love the founders, I love what they've done in the past. And I was like, I need to invest with, like I need to get into the company.
- [21:44]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. We are going to touch on your love for founders and your love for creators very shortly. But before we get there, I just need to ask you because you are somebody who is OG in the industry, what is your POV on AI? Where's it going next?
- [22:00]
Lucy Guel
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there Goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
- [22:22]
Vivian Tu
Of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra.
- [22:29]
Lucy Guel
Cmno.com I think AI is going to continue to enhance people's work. I think that like a lot of the, like, more tedious tasks that people are doing they can no longer do and they can focus on the harder problems. So one example I like to give is like lawyers, right? Where like AI is going to help them reduce the amount of time that they're spending, like reading documents. It'll help help figure, help them figure out like where the loopholes are in an argument and then they can work on figuring out a solution. Doctors where like, oh, like AI will help them quicker diagnose patients, but then they can work on better solutions because they might know of like a clinical trial that'll work. What would they say? Actually, like narrow down on like what disease the person has is.
- [23:12]
Vivian Tu
But am I going to be out of a job? Is AI taking my job?
- [23:15]
Lucy Guel
Especially not you, because you're podcasting right now and like the AI is not going to be a podcast. You don't think? No, I think that like, in general, like the jobs that like really are going to stay are ones that are more human based. Okay. So for example, like, I think that no one, like, like a nurse, right? Like an AI is not going to give you an iv. An AI isn't going to like.
- [23:37]
Vivian Tu
Okay, okay, yeah.
- [23:38]
Lucy Guel
Is that a personality you can connect with?
- [23:40]
Vivian Tu
Yes. Yeah, yeah. I definitely do not want an AI to give me an iv. That sounds horrific. So you mentioned earlier your love for founders, your love for creators. Talk to me about the next thing passes.
- [23:54]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. So I'm working in the creator economy right now. I think I have a love for founders and I actually view creators as founders. I see them as small businesses that can grow into larger businesses. When you look at the largest creators or like in terms of net worth, for example, all of them really took their brand and created a product out of it. Right. But then the day they're still monetizing their brand, so Kylie Jenner with her lipstick, Jake Paul with W, Logan Paul with Prime, et cetera, like you see countless examples. And I wanted to build essentially like a creator commerce and monetization site that allows creators to build their businesses by providing the best tools out there to monetize their brand.
- [24:31]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. Amazing. What like Gave you this idea. I mean like you're an expert in the AI space. Why creators? Why now?
- [24:40]
Lucy Guel
I would say like over Covid I became friends with a lot of creators and I was like, wow, like you guys are really just like brands. Like you guys are businesses. Right. And like you should monetize better. I think at the same time what was happening over Covid was that creators were getting like really inconsistent brand deals and that they were getting paid like not on time per se, so they couldn't rely on brand deals for income. And I was like, well this is like, like what options do you have? And I was looking at like different competitors. And really Patreon was a main competitor. They existed for a decade, but they mainly relied on like subscriptions. And there's so many other ways creators monetize and a lot of creators can't monetize off a subscription. Like they can monetize off of live streaming, they can monetize off of selling merchandise. But like maybe no one was subscribed to them. And I was like, ok, cool. Like they don't necessarily have the tool sets. Like not all creators have the tool set that they need to like build their businesses. Let me figure out a way to do that. I was actually balancing two different ideas. Another idea I had was working on like, like basically a safe doc but for creators to get equity into companies to build long term wealth. And I figured that like I could always just take that idea and like put it in passes later. Yeah. So decided to like start off with passes because creators, it's all about trust. And if you own the majority of their inc. Come they will trust you versus like if I were like, oh, take a less like high dollar amount but get equity in it. Like they're not going to trust me if I tell them that. Yep.
- [26:03]
Vivian Tu
Right. If I were to join passes today, what are all the different ways that I could monetize?
- [26:10]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, so you can create merchandise for example, and you don't have to own your merchandise. So think print on demand and then sell it to your fans. You can do one on one calls. So a lot of our like more expert creators, like they'll do pay per minute calls where it's like, okay, they charge like $50amin. Give advice. For example, you can livestream, you can earn money through subscription, you can earn money through dms. There's just like variety of different ways and we're constantly building new ways for creators to monetize in different income streams too.
- [26:39]
Vivian Tu
I love that. Yeah, that's so Smart. Can we pivot a little into your personal life?
- [26:47]
Lucy Guel
Yeah.
- [26:48]
Vivian Tu
So as a fellow former fellow Miami Galaxy, you used to live in one of the most expensive apartments in the city, which I'm very jealous of. You have incredible views there. Was that property just for funsies, or was that more of an investment decision? And how did you go about making that choice?
- [27:08]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, honestly, when I chose that building, I actually bought in Edgewater beforehand. But then the car elevator. They had a car elevator. Parking thing was broken, so I couldn't move in. And I was like, well, I mean, I'm homeless right now. I've been living out of a hotel for, like, months at this point. I need to get a place. And then I was told that I could close at 1,000 in, like, a week. And I was like, okay, that's amazing.
- [27:33]
Vivian Tu
1,000 is the number of her.
- [27:35]
Lucy Guel
Yes, it's called 1,000 Museum. So I was like, I can close in a week. Like, this sounds amazing. And then there was, like, a private driver for the building, so I was like, great. Like, I don't need a car. I can just, like, Uber to Barry. Or not Uber. I can take the private driver to Barry's and back every day.
- [27:50]
Vivian Tu
And it's just, like, complimentary for the building.
- [27:52]
Lucy Guel
It's complimentary. I mean, it's part of the HOA fees, which is absolutely insane.
- [27:54]
Vivian Tu
Yes.
- [27:55]
Lucy Guel
But, like, for me, I was like, I. Like, I was initially optimizing for skateboard distance to Barry's, but, like, I was like, you know what? Like, a driver is kind of better than skateboarding because, you know, I've been hit a lot skateboarding, so. Yeah. And then I was also, like, from the investment side, it was Zaha Hadid's last building before she died. So in my head, I was like, okay, cool. Like, this is a piece of art. People are going to want to live here because she's like, you know, an amazing architect. I don't think it was a good investment decision. Now, that.
- [28:26]
Vivian Tu
Really?
- [28:27]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. No. Why do I not think it's a good investment decision? Well, let's see. They, like, doubled the HOA fees. So, like, I didn't really, like, think about that. Like, I didn't think it would, like, double in one year. Right. And then on top of that, because the HOA is so strict, not a lot of people want to rent the building either. And now Miami has so many other options to choose from. And when I think about it, like, now market is like, what, like, 30 to 40 to rent? Let's say you get the higher side. Like 40. Okay, so like 40, you pay like 10k a month for HOA. 30. Then you pay taxes. Let's call it like 15 and like 15k a month plus, like, you know, property taxes, etc.
- [29:04]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [29:04]
Lucy Guel
Do you really want to, like have someone live in your unit and like potentially destroy it?
- [29:09]
Vivian Tu
Right.
- [29:10]
Lucy Guel
Especially when it's like, you know, like a $7 million unit.
- [29:12]
Vivian Tu
Right.
- [29:13]
Lucy Guel
So I mean, like, I'm like about it, but it's fine. Yeah, we'll survive.
- [29:18]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. Not the best investment, but you had fun while you were there.
- [29:22]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. I mean, I think now in the future, which for my LA place, I did this. I'm only buying single family homes from now on because you actually own the land and there's no HOA fees that can, you know, just double.
- [29:35]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. And speaking of your LA place, you had a really scary encounter. Like a couple, I want to say a couple months, moving into your LA place, you actually got burglarized. Burgled.
- [29:45]
Lucy Guel
I don't know. And then since then, I've had two shots at like. So someone shot a BB gun at my window. It smashed and then I got it fixed and the same day I got it fixed, it got smashed again with a BB gun. And I'm like, I don't know who's out there to get me.
- [29:59]
Vivian Tu
But like, you made a comment, you were like, whoever tried to like break into my apartment and steal my stuff, you're an idiot. There isn't even anything here worth stealing.
- [30:07]
Lucy Guel
There's literally nothing there worth stealing.
- [30:08]
Vivian Tu
Like, what did you mean by that? Like, I have to imagine if I broke into your home, you have like a closet full of stuff I can steal.
- [30:15]
Lucy Guel
Oh yeah. So all my jewelry is actually in a bank vault. So all my really expensive, expensive stuff. So like, you know, the art, the jewelry, the watches, they're not there. So my LA place is literally just like workout clothes she in. And I mean like, literally, like, I don't even have my designer clothes there. Yeah, maybe I have like a few pieces but like, they're not worth enough to like risk breaking. Breaking in.
- [30:37]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [30:38]
Lucy Guel
So yeah, there's like really nothing there.
- [30:40]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, that's actually really interesting that like someone with such a high net worth, like, also is like quite smart. I would say, like quite responsible with all of your nice stuff.
- [30:50]
Lucy Guel
And then, well, it's only in a bank vault because I used to wear my jewelry and then I just kept on losing it. Like it would just like fly. So, you know, like, then I was like, you know what? Like I need to just stop wearing all my nice stuff. Let me just, like, put my nice stuff inside a bank vault.
- [31:05]
Vivian Tu
But then what's the point of having it?
- [31:08]
Lucy Guel
I mean, like, I kind of use some of them as an investment. Like, I have a very rare AP watch that I think is just going to be like, I. I already know that it's worth more than what I paid for because there was a worse one that auctioned off at Sotheby's for more than what I paid for. Yeah. And it's like one in four or something in the world. So I was like, you know what? Like, this will increase in value. And then the jewelry, I don't know. They were like, very spontaneous decisions. I'm like, I. I'll pull it out for, like, a nice event, you know?
- [31:35]
Vivian Tu
Okay.
- [31:35]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. All right.
- [31:36]
Vivian Tu
All right. What is your favorite thing these days to splurge on?
- [31:43]
Lucy Guel
I think the thing I splurge on is like, the last thing I splurged on. And it's probably my favorite thing is, like, when I'm traveling, right. And like, making sure that, like, I'm able to see the music that I want to see. So that could be like a cello where I splurged on, like, where we were staying. And then, like, for everybody.
- [32:04]
Vivian Tu
Lucy is an absolute, like, rave animal. She's always at music festivals.
- [32:08]
Lucy Guel
It's It Bewilders Music festival. But anyways, yes. Evercially, like, I just like. Because weekend one, I was so upset because I didn't get to see the music I wanted to see. Because just, like, walking back and forth is so tough. I was like, okay, let me stay in, like, basically on grounds at Coachella and Napoleo Villas. And then there's like, golf carts. I'll take you, like, from the villa to, like, whatever stage you want. They, like, pick you up. And then I golf cart hopped as well. Like, at the festival. It was just so convenient.
- [32:32]
Vivian Tu
So much easier.
- [32:33]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. And it's like, those things are like, if edc, Right. Like, I want to get to the festival on time. I don't want to wait, like, three hours in tr. So I'll just, like, book a helicopter. It's like a function of time and money.
- [32:45]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [32:46]
Lucy Guel
Yeah.
- [32:47]
Vivian Tu
Speaking of splurging, something else that you like to splurge on, which, by the way, I want everybody to know I did get an invite to this year Lucy Palooza, your birthday party. Every single year, you trick it out. There's always a crazy dj. I don't know if it's at like your house or some random mansion. There's, you know, a free Botox, like, tattoo part. Like you have every. Are you bankrolling that? Who's paying for that?
- [33:13]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, so before I was bankrolling it when I first started the concept, and then it got so popular that, like, sponsors wanted to come in and are just like, oh, let us, like, sponsor event. We'll give you like, 20k to have a sign here. We'll give you like 50k to have like an entire booth here, an activation. So now it actually comes out profitable every year, which is, like, very cool. Yeah, yeah.
- [33:37]
Vivian Tu
You literally turn a profit even on your birthday.
- [33:39]
Lucy Guel
I turn a profit on my birthday.
- [33:41]
Vivian Tu
That is genius.
- [33:42]
Lucy Guel
And it's kind of like festivals. You lose money in the beginning and then it becomes popular and then you make money. Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:48]
Vivian Tu
Wow. That. That literally is the festival model. And so one thing that I am curious about, you're splurging on some of this jewelry. You're splurging on Lucy Palooza. But I see you very often on Instagram because being like, hey, guys, I'm traveling to this random city. Does anyone have a couch I can sleep on? Lucy, explain to me why you won't just book a hotel room. Why are you sleeping on people's couches?
- [34:15]
Lucy Guel
Okay, so I actually really enjoy spending time with my friends. So when I stay with someone, it actually, for example, in Miami, I stayed on one of my best friend's couches that I just haven't seen in a while. And last time I was in town or he was in town, I didn't get to see him at all. So I was like, okay, if I'm on someone's couch that I really want to spend time with, they can't get rid of me. Which is incredible.
- [34:35]
Vivian Tu
They can't get rid of me. That was your attitude.
- [34:37]
Lucy Guel
I'm deaf. Well, I mean, like, they're like, forced to spend time with me. That being said again, like, it's a function of everything. So, like, my friend was like, oh, my God, come stay in, like, my $50 million, like, townhome and Upper east side. Like, you know, she has a maid, et cetera. But it was like a 10 minute walk to Barry's, and I specifically don't like that Barry's. So then I was like, okay, I'm like, have a bunch of meetings all week long. I want to be a 32nd walk from Barry's.
- [35:05]
Vivian Tu
So.
- [35:06]
Lucy Guel
So for this trip, I actually booked a hotel so I could be a 32nd walk from Barry's and like manage, like, you know. Yeah, manage my schedule. But I think I prefer couches just cause I like spending time with people. It's like, it's nice. Like, it's so depressing. After a day of meetings, going back to my hotel room and just being alone and being like, well, now what? Like, that was literally yesterday. I, like finished meetings early. I think I got back home at like 6:37 and I just sat there and I. And I was like, well, I mean, like, I guess I'll just work on my laptop alone and like, not have a conversation with anyone.
- [35:39]
Vivian Tu
That's crazy. You and I are so different in that way. Because you are very clearly an extrovert.
- [35:43]
Lucy Guel
I'm not though. I'm like, really? I would. I have. I get social anxiety. I think like what they call me is like an ambivert or something. Like, I love like deep one on one conversations with people, but if you throw me into a room full of people, I. I can't speak.
- [35:57]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm actually probably that way too. But like, at the end of day, the day, the idea of going home to a hotel room where no one else is there is perfect.
- [36:06]
Lucy Guel
But you're talking to people all day.
- [36:08]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, that's true. I am.
- [36:09]
Lucy Guel
I am a computer all day.
- [36:11]
Vivian Tu
I have a very social job, fortunately or unfortunately. So before I let you go, we have a couple questions about your entrepreneurship journey, as well as just kind of like the earlier days of being a founder. I want to know, first question. What is the craziest thing you have ever done to save money?
- [36:32]
Lucy Guel
I would say the most extreme thing I've done was lower my expenses, such that I was pretty much only paying utility bills. After I had my like, first liquidity event, I decided to buy a $70,000 apartment.
- [36:45]
Vivian Tu
Where are you getting an apartment for $70,000?
- [36:47]
Lucy Guel
Las Vegas.
- [36:48]
Vivian Tu
Okay.
- [36:49]
Lucy Guel
I was located five minutes away from the airport, so I basically was just skateboard to the airport, book a fake flight, and then like, you know, go into the Amex lounge, eat for free, cancel the flight, and then go back home. So really I was only paying just like utilities. It was great.
- [37:07]
Vivian Tu
So you were eating for free every single day in the Amex lounge?
- [37:10]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, and I traveled by electric skateboard. So like electricity bills, but that was it.
- [37:15]
Vivian Tu
Wow, I can't believe after making money from your first company, I mean, nearly a billion dollars, you were still living like that.
- [37:26]
Lucy Guel
Well, I mean, technically I had only made a few million at this point.
- [37:29]
Vivian Tu
Okay, okay, okay.
- [37:30]
Lucy Guel
Yeah.
- [37:30]
Vivian Tu
At this point in time, you'd only made a few million. Okay, got it. I still don't know if I could electric skateboard my way to my meals at the airport every single day, but I commend you. That is an incredible story.
- [37:42]
Lucy Guel
It's very fun.
- [37:43]
Vivian Tu
It is a fun one.
- [37:44]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I meant, like, electric skateboarding is fun. Oh, you should try it.
- [37:49]
Vivian Tu
I would break a leg.
- [37:51]
Lucy Guel
I mean, I did break several things. Fair enough.
- [37:54]
Vivian Tu
Okay.
- [37:55]
Lucy Guel
Don't do it, guys. It is very dangerous. Probably more dangerous than riding a motorcycle.
- [38:01]
Vivian Tu
Next question. You've been under a lot of pressure and scrutiny as a woman founder. Do you think that has a lot to do with just the fact that you've been in the AI and creator industry? Or is that more to do with just, like, your identity as, like, an Asian woman?
- [38:15]
Lucy Guel
I think as an Asian woman, I'm, like, not what people expect. Right? Like, I'm very loud. I do a lot of not demure. I'm not demure at all. And I don't think people necessarily like it because I don't fit the mold of what they think that I should be. And I do think a lot of people are very jealous. What I will say, though, is that, like, most women actually really like me, and people are always like, oh, but, like, women are ones that get jealous. And that's just not true with me. I would say, like, almost all my haters are men, and I almost feel like it's because I make them feel, like, emasculated in some way.
- [38:49]
Vivian Tu
Like, because you're rich.
- [38:50]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I'm rich. I think. I think I'm, like, in a male dominated field and doing better. And when they're like, oh, but I'm smarter than her, why am I not there? And then, like, even at Barry's, like, people get mad because they're like, why is she lifting heavier weights than me? She must be cheating somehow.
- [39:02]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [39:02]
Lucy Guel
Or like, she's going to die of a heart attack by doing that. But, yeah, I would say, like, an almost like, I actually don't think I have any hate DM's in my entire Instagram inbox or Twitter inbox for men. Like, women, it's all men.
- [39:16]
Vivian Tu
Men. Oh, I kind of love that, actually, because it makes me feel like, you know, you're a girl's girl and the girls that like you are girls. Girls.
- [39:26]
Lucy Guel
Yeah.
- [39:27]
Vivian Tu
But then all of your haters are just kind of, like, lame.
- [39:29]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I know. I'm like, I don't really. I. I love the fact that, like, at least I don't think I Have female haters. I haven't like they haven't been loud enough for me to notice them.
- [39:37]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, huh. Honestly, if I was a man, I would be jealous of you too. For listeners who are starting their entrepreneurial journey, what is one piece of advice that you would give to them?
- [39:49]
Lucy Guel
I would say take the leap. But make sure that like before you take the leap to really build a good network because who you hire is going to like really build whether your company is successful or not. You can have a shitty idea, but if you like work with smart people, you'll always be able to pivot into a better idea. But like once you are an entrepreneurship journey and it's going to be a lot harder meeting like talented people that you can hire. Like nowadays all I know is founders, right? Yeah. But like back when I was like, you know, working at places and like building my network via hackathons or even in college, like I had a bunch of smart people and those networks are still where I'm mainly like sourcing people from.
- [40:27]
Vivian Tu
Because now you can't just hire other CEOs because everybody.
- [40:30]
Lucy Guel
Exactly. They're already working. Exactly. And like a lot of the people that I've worked with before, they're like they started their own companies. So I think that like building that network early on is so, so important.
- [40:39]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. You've experienced astronomical success very, very young, very early on on. Why are you still going? Like what fuels you? What drives you to keep building? You know, what even made you want to build passes when you had such a successful exit already? Like I would be like, bye guys. I'm riding off into the sunset.
- [40:59]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I think I've always optimized for learning. And in between passes and scale, I actually started a venture fund. And part of this venture fund we started this program called HF0 which is where we like invest in second time founder, founder engineering years. We were like living with them and just their ambitious. Like I like I could feel their ambition in their drive and I got the itch to just start something else. And I was thinking like what can I start where I'm like still learning something new? And I thought about, I was like, okay, like consumer is like one of the hardest like companies to build in. I think like B2B and Enterprise is actually very brute forcible to be successful in. But consumer, it's like, like a good mix of luck but also strategy. And it's I think the hardest challenge a founder can take on. So I was like, you know what, like yolo, let's do It. I have, like, nothing to lose because, like, I did okay with scale. Right. And, like, my venture fund's doing really well. So it was like, low risk but, like, high reward.
- [42:00]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, but like, what's the reward? Like, you don't need any more money.
- [42:04]
Lucy Guel
Being able to, like, say, I did it.
- [42:06]
Vivian Tu
You just, like, want to win? You just like winning?
- [42:08]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, I just like winning. Like how I killed my body with seven berries glasses to win.
- [42:13]
Vivian Tu
You just like winning? Yeah, winners win. I love that.
- [42:15]
Lucy Guel
Exactly.
- [42:16]
Vivian Tu
Okay.
- [42:16]
Lucy Guel
It's like Asian competitiveness. You know, when your Asian parents are like, what? You weren't first in your class? What's wrong with you?
- [42:23]
Vivian Tu
Wow. I feel like that's something that we have to break down in therapy, wanting to win because our parents never told us that they were proud of us. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I, like, feel. I feel like at a certain point, it's not necessarily about each incremental dollar. It's about doing something that you believe in.
- [42:39]
Lucy Guel
Yeah. And then, like, if there's something that I want to, you know, donate to in the future, I'll have more dollars to donate to it.
- [42:45]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. Yeah, that's really smart. Thank you so much for being here today. Can you let everybody know where we can find you and find passes?
- [42:52]
Lucy Guel
Yeah, just follow us on Instagram. My Instagram is guofor it. Just g u o for it. You know, go for it, go for it. And then we're just passes.
- [43:02]
Vivian Tu
Passes. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me.
- [43:04]
Lucy Guel
Awesome. Thank you.
- [43:05]
Vivian Tu
Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media podcast network. If you like the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcastorrichbff.com follow Net Worth and Chillpod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast related news. And you can follow me at your rich BFF for even more financial know. How to. See you next week. Bye.