Friends & Finances - How to Maintain Important Relationships

Summary

Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF: Episode Summary

Title: Friends & Finances - How to Maintain Important Relationships
Host: Vivian Tu
Guest: Carol Wu
Release Date: December 18, 2024

In this heartfelt solo episode of Net Worth and Chill, Vivian Tu sits down with her longtime friend, Carol Wu, to explore the intricate relationship between money and friendship. Their two-decade-long friendship serves as a backdrop for an engaging conversation filled with personal anecdotes, financial insights, and practical advice on maintaining healthy relationships amidst financial dynamics.

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1. Introduction: Decades of Friendship

Vivian opens the episode by introducing Carol Wu, emphasizing their longstanding bond since sixth grade. She humorously references their evolving dynamics, hinting at playful financial exchanges between them.

Vivian Tu [00:00]: "Why do you think we've stayed friends for over two decades?"

Carol Wu [41:49]: "I think we complement each other well. Our energies complement each other well."

The conversation seamlessly transitions into their shared history, setting the stage for deeper discussions on money and its impact on their relationship.

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2. Early Memories of Money

The duo reminisces about their childhood experiences with money, highlighting differing family attitudes towards finances.

Carol Wu [02:42]: "My earliest memory of money was when I was little... my grandfather made a comment about being careful with money."

Vivian contrasts her upbringing where money was openly discussed with Carol's more reserved family approach.

Vivian Tu [04:19]: "My parents would always be talking about money."

Carol Wu [04:23]: "We don't talk about money. We just save your money."

This foundational difference influenced their later financial behaviors and attitudes towards spending and saving.

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3. Shopping Habits and Retail Therapy

Their conversation delves into personal shopping habits, revealing how each navigates spending their own money.

Carol Wu [05:29]: "I'm such a consumer now and I use retail therapy as a way just to relax or cope."

Vivian admits a shift from in-store to online shopping, driven by time constraints, while Carol explains her preference for online browsing and the influence of social media on her purchases.

Vivian Tu [07:14]: "But when you started making real money as an adult and then the floodgates just opened."

Carol Wu [07:29]: "I prefer to have 20 carts open in 20 different tabs... influenced a lot based on what I see on social media."

Their discussion highlights the psychological aspects of spending and the balance between coping mechanisms and financial responsibility.

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4. Friendship Dynamics and Financial Fairness

Vivian and Carol explore how money plays a role in their interactions with friends, particularly around activities like dinners and group outings.

Carol Wu [14:47]: "Depends on the situation... if someone feels strongly about that."

Vivian shares her concerns about friends in varying financial situations, especially those with higher education debt, seeking Carol's advice on maintaining fairness and sensitivity.

Vivian Tu [17:36]: "I have friends who have gone through higher education, become doctors and lawyers, and they have a lot more debt than I do."

Carol advises a tailored approach based on the context, emphasizing communication and understanding.

Carol Wu [18:00]: "Depends on the situation... If you're leading the charge or if it's a group decision."

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5. Navigating Friends with Different Finances

The conversation shifts to handling friendships where financial disparities exist, using personal anecdotes to illustrate potential challenges.

Vivian recounts a negative experience with a friend, Alicia, who mismanaged money within the group, leading to distrust and eventual distancing.

Vivian Tu [22:36]: "She was spending more and charging us more... I just stopped being friends with her because I didn't know what to do."

Carol suggests addressing issues directly by confronting the friend about discrepancies.

Carol Wu [23:59]: "I would just ask someone about it. I'd be like, hey, I thought the pizza was $25. How is it $40?"

This segment underscores the importance of transparency and proactive communication in preserving healthy friendships.

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6. Financial Management in Relationships

The hosts discuss how Carol and her husband manage their finances, offering a model for financial transparency within romantic relationships.

Carol Wu [20:54]: "We have separate savings from before we were married and now a joint savings and checking account for all shared expenses."

Vivian contrasts her own dynamic, where online shopping leads to notifications and potential conflicts.

Vivian Tu [21:26]: "This is why he hates it."

Carol elaborates on their approach to transparency and accountability, ensuring both partners are aware of all transactions.

Carol Wu [21:28]: "We track our financials through an app. So there's nothing that I'm spending that's not known."

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7. Financial Horror Stories and Lessons Learned

Vivian shares a "financial horror story" involving a friend who exploited group finances, while Carol provides strategies for handling similar situations gracefully.

Vivian Tu [22:36]: "Alicia used to charge us extra and cut a commission... I just stopped being friends with her."

Carol Wu [26:13]: "I would text that person and suggest alternative ideas... Always ask what range they're comfortable spending."

These stories serve as cautionary tales, emphasizing the need for clear financial boundaries and open dialogues within friend groups.

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8. Career Stability and Financial Growth

Carol discusses her career in consulting, highlighting the stability and financial growth it has provided her, contrasting with Vivian's more dynamic job history.

Carol Wu [31:34]: "In consulting, even though you're a career consultant, our work is very much project-based... It feels like a new job."

Vivian expresses admiration for Carol's career consistency, seeking insights on maintaining financial stability.

Vivian Tu [32:01]: "What made you want to just stay there?"

Carol Wu [32:20]: "If the project makes sense to move on to the next one, you do."

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9. Financial Planning for Major Life Events

The hosts delve into wedding planning and budgeting, sharing their experiences and the importance of structured financial planning.

Carol Wu [34:04]: "Our wedding planner helped us manage our budget by recommending spending in each vendor category."

Vivian contrasts her experience with a planner who allowed expenses to balloon uncontrollably.

This segment underscores the value of professional guidance in managing large expenditures, ensuring financial goals are met without compromising important life events.

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10. The Comparison Game Among Friends

Addressing the psychological impact of comparing oneself to friends, Vivian and Carol offer perspectives on healthy versus unhealthy comparisons.

Carol Wu [38:45]: "If the comparison makes you better or to chase things that weren't meant for you."

Vivian reflects on her own experiences, noting that external comparisons from teachers and parents have lessened, allowing for a more supportive and less competitive friendship dynamic.

Vivian Tu [39:38]: "I'm happy that everybody's shit is going right."

They advocate for celebrating each other's successes without succumbing to the pressures of comparison, fostering a positive and uplifting friendship environment.

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11. The Secret to a Lasting Friendship

Wrapping up the episode, Vivian and Carol contemplate why their friendship has endured over two decades, attributing it to complementary personalities and mutual support.

Carol Wu [41:49]: "Life is more interesting when you're friends with people who are different from yourself."

Vivian Tu [42:43]: "What is one thing that you have been eyeing to purchase in the next month or so?"

Their ability to balance each other's strengths and weaknesses, coupled with open communication about finances, has cemented their enduring bond.

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Notable Quotes

• Vivian Tu [05:24]: "I feel like I was very good about it as a child, but as soon as I had my own money, my own budget, it almost feels like out of control or on a spree sometimes."

• Carol Wu [18:09]: "I think if you're leading the charge, whether it's a trip or a dinner... I think that makes a difference in terms of what you should do."

• Vivian Tu [35:06]: "But she can never afford to feel sad."

• Carol Wu [35:59]: "I'd rather spend more on one nicer thing than to buy three or four lower quality things."

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Conclusion

This episode of Networth and Chill offers a candid exploration of how money intertwines with friendships and romantic relationships. Through personal stories and thoughtful discussions, Vivian and Carol provide listeners with valuable insights on navigating financial dynamics without compromising important relationships. Their enduring friendship stands as a testament to the power of complementary personalities, open communication, and mutual respect in maintaining both personal bonds and financial well-being.

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For more insights and actionable financial tips, subscribe to Networth and Chill on your preferred podcast platform. Follow Vivian Tu on Instagram at @yourrichbff and stay updated with the latest episodes and financial know-how.

Transcript

[Vivian Tu]

Why do you think we've stayed friends for over two decades?

[Carol Wu]

I use retail therapy as a way just to relax or cope.

[Vivian Tu]

I feel like you and I will, like, punch each other to pay for the bill now.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

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[Vivian Tu]

What'S up, Rich friends? Welcome back to Net Worth and Chill with me, your host, Vivian Tu, AKA Urich, bff and your favorite Wall street girlie. And in season one of Net Worth and Chill, I would alternate interview duo versus solo interview duo versus solo episodes for the podcast. But I thought to make this season a little bit more interesting and share a little bit more of my personal life, for today's quote unquote solo episode, I've actually brought a personal friend of mine. Someone who has been in my life for two decades. Someone who knows all of my deepest, darkest secrets. Where the bodies are hidden. But this is where we're gonna start today. Her name is Carol Wu, and we have been friends since we were 10.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, sixth grade.

[Vivian Tu]

However old we are then, we were young. We were super young. And today we're gonna talk about money and friendship, and we're talking about the best kinds of friends, the worst kinds of friends, and pretty much everything in between. But before we start, I do wanna tell story, and Carol actually knows this person. But I had a friend at one point, venmo me like, $8 for light bulbs for her lamp because she said, and I quote, you also get to enjoy the light. And I am tired of friends, Venmo, charging each other $0.30 for breathing in each other's direction. And I feel like today is a good chance for us to talk about friendship and money. What do you think?

[Carol Wu]

I love it.

[Vivian Tu]

Amazing. So, first off, I definitely blackmailed Carol to be here today. But I want to just ask, what was your earliest memory of money? And I'll tell you mine.

[Carol Wu]

I think my earliest memory of money was when I was little. And I think it was a period where my parents were going through not financial trouble, but I think they were just trying to make sure that all they could make ends meet. And I remember I don't know how old I was probably early elementary school age. And this was. My grandfather was in the US as well, living with us, taking care of me. And he made a comment about, hey, you know, we just got to be careful about money. You know, maybe things are tight, so just be cognizant of that. That's like, my very first.

[Vivian Tu]

How old were you?

[Carol Wu]

I think I was in first or second grade. It was definitely quite a young age.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. And we grew up down the street from each other. This is how we became best friends. I used to cut through your backyard because we lived in a development where there were townhomes, and we were living in townhomes at the time in, you know, one of the better school districts. So we had the smallest homes in one of the best school districts because I think both of our parents really valued education.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Did you ever feel some type of way because we lived in that neighborhood and there were kids that we went to school with who had, like, those massive mansions, like, right down the street from, you know, the high school or what have you, like, did you ever felt, like, very other than because of that?

[Carol Wu]

I don't think so. I feel like I was conscious of money. I knew roughly my family's financial standing, but I think at that age, I didn't think too deeply about our classmates and friends and maybe their financial backgrounds the way that we would now, looking back.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Did you guys talk about, like, money in your home a lot?

[Carol Wu]

No, never.

[Vivian Tu]

My parents would always be talking about money.

[Carol Wu]

Really?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. And I'm shocked yours weren't.

[Carol Wu]

No, I. We don't talk about money. I think even to this day, obviously, I know more now because we're all adults now, but I think in my family, it was unusual to talk much about money other than, hey, we should always be conscious and we should save, but not so much about where do we stand or how do we think about budgeting. It was always, just save your money.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Don't spend it if you don't need to.

[Vivian Tu]

So Chinese. It's so Chinese. And, like, when things would start to, like, pile up, whether it was, like, your spending as, like, a kid, I remember we used to go to the mall. Right. Did your parents ever, like, say anything to you about that, like, when we would go shopping?

[Carol Wu]

No, but I think it's because when you think about me now, I'm such a consumer. I don't think I developed that habit, though, until I started earning my own money. Yeah. I think as a child, I would just take my mom and dad's cue about when to spend, whether it was back to school clothing or school supplies.

[Vivian Tu]

I don't even know you were good about that. I wasn't. It's actually quite a role reversal, don't you think?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. But I think it's because of my upbringing. At least this is my own self reflection that I think. I'm such a consumer now and I use retail therapy as a way just to relax or cope. Because of the way that I grew up.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Because I feel like I was very good about it as a child, but as soon as I had my own money, my own budget, it almost feels like out of control or on a spree sometimes. I'm on a shopping high.

[Vivian Tu]

Can I say you can't make me better, but I definitely made you worse. What do you mean? When we first met, I felt like you were very like, chill, go with the flow. Like, I'll wear whatever my parents buy for me.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And I was like in that mode of like, I want to be like, dressed nice. I want to look like the girls in the magazines. And then like, we started hanging out more and more and more. And you were like, well, I want to dress that way too.

[Carol Wu]

I would come over to your house and you would have a huge haul from Abercrombie.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

No, I'm serious. That's one of my earlier memories of our friendship.

[Vivian Tu]

Really?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And then you would go home and be like, I would like to go to Abercrombie.

[Carol Wu]

I think I learned about Abercrombie from you.

[Vivian Tu]

But like, what happened? Because. Because these days, Carol, like, your husband texts me regularly and is like, Vivian, she must be stopped. Like, you love to online shop. You love to go in store to shop. I don't know what happened to me. I hate shopping now. Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

When did that change for you?

[Vivian Tu]

I don't know. I feel like it's just. Cause like, when I had like less and less time, I went from like in store shopping, which used to be like a fun activity, to online shopping, and now I almost exclusively online shop. Like, I hate going into the stores. Cause I feel like it takes too long and then I've wasted so much time.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

But when like, you started making real money as an adult and then the floodgates just opened, popped off like. But like, why?

[Carol Wu]

Well, actually I don't love in person shopping either, but I love. I don't mind in person shopping. I'll do it.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

It's not my preferred shopping mode though. I. I prefer to have 20 carts open in 20 different tabs 20 different shopping carts. Just browse, browse, browse. I get influenced a lot too, based on what I see on social media or different fashion influence.

[Vivian Tu]

What's the most recent thing that you've been influenced to buy?

[Carol Wu]

Most recent thing I've been influenced to buy. Okay, nothing. It's not one specific product. But I've been buying more sweaters recently in the last year. I think it's because of a variety of probably social media posts that I've seen and I was like, I've got to revamp all my sweater collections. I don't, I hate all the cardigans and sweaters that I have got to get new ones. So I've built that up a little bit over the last year. Like the, like the one that you're wearing right now?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Oh my God. Okay, so this is so humiliating. She just really put me on blast. If you're listening, you can't see it, but if you're watching, you are noticing that I'm in a beautiful oatmeal colored sweater and it's Carol's because I had a tank top on that I didn't realize was slightly see through for a podcast. So I am wearing Carol's sweater and.

[Carol Wu]

I was sorry to put you on blast.

[Vivian Tu]

Carol, you have bailed me out of so many, like both fashion but also like life emergencies. You were the big sister I never had. Like, honestly, I feel like anytime I come over to your apartment, I take something and then you never see it again.

[Carol Wu]

But I think that's, that's nature just working itself out.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, the sweater distribution system. This is mine now, by the way. You're not going to discover. Great. It's, it's a wonderful sweater.

[Carol Wu]

I highly recommend.

[Vivian Tu]

So I want to talk about, you know, how money changed for our families once we kind of got into high school. I don't know if you like vividly remember this as much as I do, but we lived in the town home neighborhood in you know, elementary, middle school. And then halfway through like high school, it felt like both your family and my family like got more comfortable financial footing and your family moved into a single family home. And then my parents were like, well, the Woos moved into a single family home and then we moved into a single family home.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And what do you like, what do you make of that? Like how is like your parents relationship with finances and yours changed during that time?

[Carol Wu]

I don't. Yeah, I'm trying to reflect. I don't know if something actually happened because neither of my parents changed Jobs. It's not like someone got a huge promotion. Of course, you know, there's promotions or upwards movement over the years, but nothing in particular happened. I wonder if it was just a mental state where they were more comfortable.

[Vivian Tu]

About, okay, because we were older.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, I'm comfortable now. Or maybe there's enough saved up for college or for other whatever big purchases that they had in mind, so let's just move. And it was unusual at first. I don't know what spurred it.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, I don't know either. I'm, like, trying to think, but, like, I feel like having immigrant parents, like, we had a different relationship with money than many of our peers. Like, I feel like we had to be more acutely aware of it than, like, people who weren't the children of immigrants.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Like, do you feel like your husband. I'm not gonna say his name out loud. Do you feel like he had that same experience?

[Carol Wu]

I think so. And I think. I mean, I think his family.

[Vivian Tu]

Carol's husband is also Asian, in case anyone is curious. That's why I asked. Ye.

[Carol Wu]

And also the child of immigrants.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Well, it's interesting. I think had a very similar experience to us growing up. I think parents started out more cautiously with financials and then got more comfortable at a certain point in time. I think for him, though, the lesson for him is that it taught him to be very conscious and be a very thoughtful manager of his financials and our financials. And I guess it just had a different effect for me, as you can see.

[Vivian Tu]

So he became the really responsible, frugal one, and you became the consumer.

[Carol Wu]

Yes, but I'm working on reforming now.

[Vivian Tu]

Reformed consumer. You know what it is? I feel like every single saver ends up marrying a spender so they can torture them for the rest of their life.

[Carol Wu]

It's just how it works out.

[Vivian Tu]

It's just how it works out. Let's take a quick pivot, and I want to talk about our friends, our different groups of friends.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

You and I went on each other's bachelorette parties. We've met all of each other's friends. Like, do you talk to your friends about money?

[Carol Wu]

I. I do with some. I wouldn't say with everyone.

[Vivian Tu]

But how do you decide who you do and don't.

[Carol Wu]

Honestly, I take the other person's cue. I. I think it. I mean, I think it depends on the situation, too. I think if. If I'm doing something that requires spending or something that impacts a friend's financials, I'll be the one to bring it Up. But I think if someone were just to openly want to share, I think. I honestly don't think I start first, but I think if someone starts to share, I'm open about talking about it.

[Vivian Tu]

Do you feel like that's how our friendship happened? Because I literally. You don't remember this? I do. When we first met, I basically was just like, we're friends now. And you were like, okay, but we met selling scholastic wrapping paper for that school competition in front of. We'll call him Colin's house.

[Carol Wu]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

And we were all trying to sell this wrapping paper, and you and I teamed up, and then we sold one set of wrapping paper to your parents and one set of wrapping paper to.

[Carol Wu]

My parents for a whopping total of two.

[Vivian Tu]

For a whopping total of two. Two sold. And we did not win any prizes. I think we got, like, a pencil with, like, a smelly eraser on it. But, like, it was just how we became friends. And I feel like I have always been the more eccentric one and you have been the more stabilizing factor in my life. And that's why my parents were so happy when you became my best friend. I feel like I tricked your parents, though, into thinking.

[Carol Wu]

What do you mean?

[Vivian Tu]

Like, I tricked your parents into thinking that I was, like, a good influence when in fact I was not.

[Carol Wu]

No. But I feel like you helped me come out of my shell. I feel like I. I wouldn't say I'm super shy, but I feel like I kind of like to feel out situations first before I jump in or say something or share anything.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. And I'm like, already in the water. I'm like, are there sharks in here? So when it comes to friends and going out with them. Because you do this a lot. Because I see it on the stories, and then I get kind of jealous. But, like, when you go out to dinner with your girlfriends.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Are you guys splitting the bill or is one of you picking it up? Because I feel like as you and I have gotten older in our relationship, we used to split the bill.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

But now it's like, one of us will pick it up and we'll just alternate. Yeah, but, like, do you split the bill with your friends or. No.

[Carol Wu]

Okay. So I have many thoughts on this, because I think it depends on the situation. I think if it was like a group dinner, three or more, we either just split it evenly if everyone. If we shared things, or if we roughly got the same number of drinks and an entree. I'm also okay if someone wants to pay for it. And then they'll itemize each person for what they got.

[Vivian Tu]

Hey, Carol, you know that person's just trying to take all the points.

[Carol Wu]

You want the points, but that's okay. That's not a hill I need to die on.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Carol Wu]

But I think that way of splitting is fair, too. If someone feels strongly about that. I think what I do look out for, and I don't ever like to cause this on anyone. If we're at a dinner and someone's had five glasses of wine, another person just sipping water, and someone got a steak and the other person got a side salad, I think I will say, hey, let's actually just itemize it because we kind of got different things for dinner. So I think it depends on the situation. And I do look out for it because I never want anyone to feel like it's unfair or that they're taking on a financial burden for a night they didn't think that they were going to have.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. You have always been about fairness. Like, you. Like, you were just such a good person. Like, you've always done things by the book. You're a rule follower. You want everyone to feel included. I'm not like that. Let's just be entirely clear.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Like, I was like, we're going to do whatever. I feel like it right now. But, like, you and I have been friends for so long, and I don't know how, like, looking at our personalities, I'm shocked. We've been friends for so long, but it just works. It just works.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

It's 20 years of just working. I want to talk a little bit about friends in different financial situations.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Because a lot of your friends are from college in the same way that a lot of mine are. But also a lot of your friends were from your first and only job. That's right. Carol is loyal, unlike me. I'm on my third do over. But you stayed at the same company since your first day out of college, and you've gotten raises, you've gotten promoted multiple times. And a lot of your friends do the same thing as you. Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Do you have friends who have, like, a lot more or a lot less money than you?

[Carol Wu]

I was. I was thinking about this. I don't think so, because almost. Almost all of my friends, we work in some kind of corporate setting.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Different jobs, for sure. Different types of companies, but all in a corporate world. So I would say it's more similar than if someone worked in a completely different line of business like healthcare or education or government. All of my friends just Happen to be in the corporate world.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Okay. Awkward, because none of my other friends.

[Carol Wu]

Are in my circle.

[Vivian Tu]

But, yeah, I don't know. I feel like I have been navigating how much more I should be covering for my friends so that they don't feel uncomfortable.

[Carol Wu]

And.

[Vivian Tu]

And you are my wisest friend and most compassionate friend, so I'm curious how you would tackle it, because, like, you know, I have friends who have gone through higher education, become doctors and lawyers, and they have a lot more debt than I do, and they also aren't making the kind of money that even, like, a corporate person is.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And I do have corporate friends and other friends in finance. Like, what advice would you give me?

[Carol Wu]

I think it just depends. This is a very consulting answer.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay. Carol's a consultant, so she's about to, like, Jedi mine. Mind trick me. Go ahead.

[Carol Wu]

I think it depends on the situation. I think it depends on if you're leading the charge on wanting to do something that might impact someone else financially or if it was a group decision. I think that that makes a difference in terms of what you should do. I think if you are leading the charge, whether it's a trip or a dinner.

[Vivian Tu]

Let's take my bachelorette, for example.

[Carol Wu]

Well, I feel like you were so compassionate and conscious about thinking about everyone's financials on your patch.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Okay, great. I think I need your validation right now, because you also went.

[Carol Wu]

Well, you might have forgotten about this, but when we were in the planning stages for your bachelorette, we talked about what would be the easiest location and type of trip that makes sense.

[Vivian Tu]

We did send out that stupid survey.

[Carol Wu]

I thought it was great because it talked. You know, it covered logistics and financials, which are the only two things that people need to think about when they plan to go on a trip like that.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

And you had everyone's convenience in mind. A what's a location that's easiest or that everyone agrees is a good location to get to? And two, like, what are the activities and where should we stay and what should we do that financially makes sense for everyone?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

I don't think we balled out. I think it was a perfect balance for everyone that was there.

[Vivian Tu]

Shout out, survey monkey. We sent out a survey that basically was like, yo, which of these weekends works? Which of these locations works? And how much do you want to spend on this bachelorette? Because I recognize it's my bachelorette and not your life moment. So that's a hot tip for all of the friends who are planning any Sort of big getaway. It's a good thing to check in advance.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. Wait, quick side story about that. Well, because of the survey. You know how I also sent out a survey for my bachelorette because you told me to, and that was such a good idea. So it's just a full circle moment.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, because I put that survey together for you, and I remember being like, what are all of these people's emails? But, yeah, that ended up working out pretty nice.

[Carol Wu]

A great tip.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, I like that one. So I know we texted about this and you told me the answer was no, but I'm going to press you.

[Carol Wu]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

Do you have a financial. You're like, what the heck did I get myself into? Do you have a financial friend horror story or even. Have you heard of one?

[Carol Wu]

Have I heard of one?

[Vivian Tu]

Give me a juicy one.

[Carol Wu]

Okay, not that juicy, but interesting. I've heard of couples who are married who keep entirely separate financials, separate savings, separate checking, separate credit cards.

[Vivian Tu]

What do you and your boo do?

[Carol Wu]

Okay, so we have separate savings from savings that we accrued before we were married. And now we have a joint savings and checking account for all shared expenses.

[Vivian Tu]

But you guys still keep your separate accounts as well, right?

[Carol Wu]

We don't actively contribute to it. Like, our paychecks now all go into our joint account.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, interesting.

[Carol Wu]

But we have our own savings from before we were married.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay, I like that. It's yours, mine and ours. It's nice. Yeah, that is nice.

[Carol Wu]

Everyone has their own rainy day fund, but we have joint for everything that we have in our life today.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay, but when you are online shopping, where does that money come out?

[Carol Wu]

Oh, that comes from our joint money fund. This is why he hates it.

[Vivian Tu]

This is why he's texting me.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, yeah. And we get notifications.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, so he gets a text every time you spend money?

[Carol Wu]

Not text. We track our financials through an app. Okay, so it's just every transaction there's a notification. So it's all out there. So there's nothing that I'm spending that's not known.

[Vivian Tu]

This is not financial infidelity. He's probably gonna listen to this episode and be like, this is so stupid. But, like, he sees.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And do you guys talk about that when you're like, has there ever been a month where you've just been, like, so down bad, and you've spent so much money and he's come to you and been like, carol, what are you doing?

[Carol Wu]

Well, I feel like I've been more reformed. I'm very good at I always declare my intentions before I do something. So I put it out there, and there's a chance for the answer to be no. I might still do it, but I at least put it out there.

[Vivian Tu]

Wait, what do you mean by that?

[Carol Wu]

Hey, I'm gonna buy this.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh.

[Carol Wu]

Oh.

[Vivian Tu]

So you announce yes, and then he's like, don't do that.

[Carol Wu]

And I might still do it, but I will always announce Carol.

[Vivian Tu]

I don't know if that makes it better.

[Carol Wu]

It was transparency, you know?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Literally, you can call her a lot of things, but a liar is not one of them. Okay, Can I tell you a financial horror story?

[Carol Wu]

Tell me.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay. You know this girl, too.

[Carol Wu]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

We'll call her Alicia.

[Carol Wu]

Okay.

[Vivian Tu]

You've met her in college when. And this is also why I was so triggered when you were, like, one person couldn't put their credit card down for dinner. This person used to be the girl who would order, like, the pizzas from Pizza Hut, and then she would venmo all of us for whatever we owed based on how many people were splitting the pizzas, how many we got, whatever. And we started to notice that she would round up to either the nearest dollar or the nearest, like, five or ten. Like, an even number, and we would pay her for that. But then at one point, we realized she was spending less and charging us more and cutting, like, a commission, essentially, for being the one to order the pizzas.

[Carol Wu]

Like, delivery tip.

[Vivian Tu]

I don't understand, like, why she did that, but, like, if that was you again, because you are my wisest friend, how would you confront that situation? I just stopped being friends with her because I didn't know what to do. Yeah. I literally was like, okay, we're not friends anymore.

[Carol Wu]

I mean, it might be, you know, cut ties worthy, but I would just ask someone about it. I'd be like, hey, I thought. I thought the pizza was $25. How is it $40?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Why are we spending more? Yeah. Like, that was one of many things, by the way, that we did not like about her. But, like, it just makes me laugh looking back on that. I'm like, why did we keep letting her be the one to order the pizza?

[Carol Wu]

Do you know why she did that?

[Vivian Tu]

I don't.

[Carol Wu]

Trying to make a profit off friends.

[Vivian Tu]

I don't know if she was trying to make a profit. This was also somebody who, like, if she wanted to go out and one of us didn't want to or couldn't afford to, she would give us a hard time. But then, like, if we all wanted to go out and she couldn't afford to because she had spent a lot of her money on something else. Like she would like try and convince us not to go, which I think is like a marker of a friend who like doesn't want the best for you.

[Carol Wu]

Right.

[Vivian Tu]

So I think that was frustrating in itself.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

But I don't know why she did it. Like, we don't talk anymore.

[Carol Wu]

Right.

[Vivian Tu]

And she doesn't talk to a lot of the other gals that were at the wedding. And like, I just don't think we have a relationship anymore. But that was like both financial and also just like how she treated some people and spoke to people. And, you know, I think it was indicative of a larger issue.

[Carol Wu]

Totally.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Okay, so we're gonna play a fun game now.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Because you know me, I'm always about them games.

[Carol Wu]

I love it.

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See for [e-mail] let's go through a.

[Vivian Tu]

Few money scenarios and you let me know how you would respond. This is Carol's best advice hour. She is, you know, again, the most compassionate person I know. Scenario number one, the group gift. So we're all chipping in for a friend's birthday or special occasion and one person suggests a really pricey gift and we love the idea. Or let's say you love the idea but you can't afford it right now.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

How would you respond?

[Carol Wu]

I would text that person. Okay. I'm assuming this is a very close friend and I would just Text them and say, hey, I didn't plan for this. How about these other ideas? I think so. And so would like these gifts as well. And I think I would also take this as a lesson learned that if I'm organizing a group gift, I think it's always nice to ask everyone what range they're comfortable spending because you never know. Like, even if you've. On the surface, you feel like everyone's on the same financial standing. I feel like you never know what you know. What's everyone's financial circumstance if they're saving for something to buy a house, a major purchase, or just things that you may not be aware of. I think it's always a good practice just to ask everyone. Like, no matter the situation, even if you've asked them the same question two months ago for a different friend's birthday, just ask them, hey, what are you comfortable spending before you throw out ideas?

[Vivian Tu]

Communication is key.

[Carol Wu]

Absolutely.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay, scenario number two, the expensive weekend getaway bachelorette parties. So you get invited to a super bougie weekend trip with your friends. It's not in your budget. What do you do? And on the flip side, what if it's you who wants to go on an expensive weekend trip and not everyone can afford it? What do you do in that case?

[Carol Wu]

Okay, so I think in the first scenario, if I'm invited to a trip and I can't do it, I think if everyone else in the group is down, I don't want to cramp their fun. So I think I would just bow out and I would feel sad. But at the same time, I feel like it's better for everyone if the majority is already down and it's in their budget. You just bow out. Don't necessarily have to explain. Maybe just say like, I can't make it this time or I'd love to join, but right now is just not the right time. So please include me next time.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. I also like the idea of like afterwards being like, but I am available on this date. We should all get together and do pizza in a movie or something.

[Carol Wu]

Totally. So it's not like you didn't want to hang out with them or you didn't like the idea of it. It just wasn't the right time or place for you or financially for you. Yeah, I think if I'm the one with. If I'm the mastermind behind the weekend, I think it depends on for what. If it's just a girls trip and it's not my bachelorette or like some type of, you know, Once in a lifetime type of occasion, I would be open to discussing. I probably ask everyone first what their budget is.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

And what they're down for. So I would be open to negotiating now if it's a different situation, like, it's my Bachelorette and I have a dream destination. I just have a dream vision. I think I have to make the call if I really want all the girls there. On my Bachelorette as an example, I think I would help out financially if it was important to me that everyone was there.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Or the reverse is kind of what you did for your bachelorette. Right. You can take a group consensus, too, to kind of find the happy medium that works for most.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. Okay. Love that. And scenario three, lending money to family. I don't think so. Carol has a sister, but I was her maid of honor, so let that speak for itself. No, I'm just kidding. She's not gonna hear this. It's fine. But say your sister asks you for money. Do you give it to her?

[Carol Wu]

Okay. I think it depends on the circumstance. Is it. Is it for something fun or leisurely? Or is this, like, a dire life situation, like, I can't pay rent?

[Vivian Tu]

Or are the answers different for the two?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Carol Wu]

I think it's circumstantial.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. What if she says, I want to start a side hustle, I want to start, like, a photography business or something?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

In that case, it's not dire, but it's also not like I want a new pair of, like, you know, designer shoes. It's not frivolous. What would you say?

[Carol Wu]

Okay, this is a consultant to me coming out. The answer is yes, But I want to hear about the business plan and business model and how you plan to become profitable. Because I think if that's. If that thought has been put into it, then definitely the answer is yes, of course, for family. But if it's like, I don't know, I just want to throw some money at it, just to get started, I might question and say, well, maybe you got to think through your plan for your business first before I lend money.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, that's a good answer. But also, you're going to be so annoying when you have kids and they're like, I want this, mom. And you're like, are you going to make a PowerPoint and explain to me why you deserve it?

[Carol Wu]

Absolutely.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Teach them young, right?

[Vivian Tu]

Teach them young. You got to start those PowerPoint skills early.

[Carol Wu]

Got to know how to make your business case.

[Vivian Tu]

That's right. That's right. Okay, so let's Pivot out of the game. I want to talk a little bit about your career. You have stayed in one role. Role since I've known. Like, since I've known post college. Like, what you have done for a living. I still don't know what you do for a living. I barely understand. I did, however, go to a work event with you.

[Carol Wu]

Yes.

[Vivian Tu]

Yes.

[Carol Wu]

You were my date to a gala.

[Vivian Tu]

To a gala. So it was a lot of fun.

[Carol Wu]

And. And everyone recognized. So you were the star of the hour.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, my gosh. Always blowing up my spot. You're so funny. What made you want to just stay there? Like, especially given that I am your best friend and I'm constantly telling people, you know, get a new job. Like, job, jump, demand. More like, what made you want to stay?

[Carol Wu]

Okay. So I think the interesting thing about consulting is, even though you are a career consultant, because our work is very much project based, it does end up being different experiences. So when you rotate clients or if you rotate roles, even if you're on the same client, it almost feels like it's a new job. Honestly, I get first day of school feelings when I change a role.

[Vivian Tu]

Do you?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

It's like a new job.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, it really is. It's an entire. Sometimes it's an entirely new team.

[Vivian Tu]

But what if the team sucks?

[Carol Wu]

Hmm.

[Vivian Tu]

I mean, you certainly have projects that you liked better than others.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. Yeah. You have to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you make the most of it.

[Vivian Tu]

I think if.

[Carol Wu]

If you're not happy because of the project itself or the people that you're working with, I think you give it your best shot. And kind of as soon as it makes sense to move on to the next project, you do.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

And then if you enjoy it, I think you. I soak it in and I stay for longer.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, nice. Okay. I didn't know that you had, like, that kind of flexibility that you could just be like, oh, I want to be on this versus, like, you're assigned.

[Carol Wu]

I mean, it's a little bit of both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, honestly, in consulting, network really matters. So a lot of times we end up working with people that we know, or they pull you onto different projects or different roles.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay. And into kind of the, like, life stage that we are in. I got married this past June. You were my maid of honor. You got married the March prior. The May prior.

[Carol Wu]

May prior.

[Vivian Tu]

May prior. And I was your maid of honor. Like, talk to me about wedding planning, spending money on that, because I know you were the baller there And Charlie was just like, I have to go. Oh, wait, shoot. I shouldn't have said his name. Do you want me to go back and do that, Carol? Oh, you don't care. Okay, great. I've been hiding his name the whole time, but it's fine. So Charlie was the saber and you were the big baller, I'm assuming when you guys were planning your wedding.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, well, we had a budget. We did overspend, but not crazy from the budget that we set.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And how did you guys come up with that budget?

[Carol Wu]

It was all thanks to our wedding planner.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, really?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. Yeah, because we. The process all started with, hey, what's your total budget? And she kind of recommended how much you should be spending in each vendor category.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

So she helped us manage it.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, that's amazing. My planner basically was like, yeah, whatever you want. Whatever you want. And then the number ballooned. I spent way more than I had anticipated. But that's wonderful. And, like, do you and Charlie these days talk about money often?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, yeah, all the time. I think he has made me for the better, because Charlie makes me think about, hey, it might feel good to spend in the moment, but here's. You know, if you buy all this clothing this month, it means we can't go on a trip.

[Vivian Tu]

Or like, okay, okay, the opportunity cost.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah, exactly. So he helps me put into perspective. And I feel like as I've matured and become a fully formed adult, I have taken it in, and I feel like I am more conscious. It's not to say that I don't go on shopping sprees, especially if I'm feeling down.

[Vivian Tu]

But she can never afford to feel sad.

[Carol Wu]

Oh, my gosh. True words have never been said. But I do think I'm better about it now. I think before I would just the thrill of hitting checkout pay now confirm.

[Vivian Tu]

Wow.

[Carol Wu]

You know, all three. That was great. But now I always give it a second thought and I ask myself, do I really need this? And I also. I've tried to live more into the buy nice or buy twice mentality.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, explain this to me.

[Carol Wu]

So I feel okay. So this goes back to when I started earning my own money. I feel like I was just really obsessed with volume. Just buy all the things. All the variety. Maybe not the cheapest thing, but also not the best quality things. But I feel like now it's. I'd rather spend more on one nicer thing than to buy three or four lower quality things. And I'm talking about clothing.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, okay.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

What other things do you like to spend on, like, what do you guys like to spend money on together?

[Carol Wu]

I think our biggest spending categories for me is shopping. And then together it's travel and dining. Probably. Probably more on tr. Well, I think travel and dining come together. When we are traveling, we'll go big on dining. And then when we're at home, though, we're pretty good about it. We don't dine out too much because we like cooking at home, too.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. So can't relate.

[Carol Wu]

I mean, what about you?

[Vivian Tu]

I mean, we spend all of our money on travel and all of our money on dining out.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

You know?

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Just like you guys. But the problem is our doordash bill is also astronomical because we oftentimes, like, are splitting time in different places. So it's not really effective to cook for yourself to buy groceries. Because by the time I finally get around to using that bag of spinach, half of it's, like, moldy.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And, oh, I can't get through an entire thing of ground beef or like, ground turkey in a certain amount of time because I'm only here for three days and I'm going somewhere else and it just gets kind of hard. I mean, we did, like, I love a meal kit. Like, I love a hellofresh. I like, like doing something that's, like, fun and already pre portioned for you, but then I don't have to worry about buying.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. It's just hard to be consistent with it when you're traveling so much.

[Carol Wu]

Totally.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

I can relate if when I'm traveling for work.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, yeah, because you travel every single week as a consultant.

[Carol Wu]

Not anymore.

[Vivian Tu]

Not anymore.

[Carol Wu]

I have, but I still travel.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Just not every week. And when I'm on the road, it's always eating out. So I can relate.

[Vivian Tu]

So let's pivot into kind of the last big question that we will discuss in today's show. And this is a big one that has stemmed from my psyche as a child and being friends with you.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

The comparison game. Whether it was that one math teacher who shall not be named, who would hand us each other's tests, or our parents. Cause my parents would always be like, oh, I Bet Carol got 100 on this test. When I got like, a 98, I'd be like, no, she didn't. She also got a 98. But, like, I feel like I have been compared to you for a lot of my life. And what are your views on, like, the comparison game between friends?

[Carol Wu]

Okay. I. I'm split on this because I think it Depends on if it's. If the comparison makes you for the better or if it makes you chase after or aspire for things that weren't meant for you. So I'll explain.

[Vivian Tu]

That was kind of woo woo. Okay, go ahead.

[Carol Wu]

Okay, so I'll explain. I think if you're surrounded by high performing, high achieving friends and they challenge you to do better. Right. And they challenge you to do something that you didn't think you could or to study harder because that will drive you to get a better grade too. I think that's not a bad thing per se. I think when you're surrounded by role models like that, like everyone just builds each other up.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

And then everyone ends up for the better.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

I think if you're comparing yourself to others for things that they have or experiences that they have.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

That don't make sense for you or isn't. You know, if it's like, especially if it's like a material possession.

[Vivian Tu]

Right.

[Carol Wu]

Like so and so has so many beautiful clothes and bags and shoes and. And that drives you to try and like imitate their lifestyle, even if maybe you're not in the same financial standing. I think that's no good. So I think it just depends on what you're comparing yourself to others for.

[Vivian Tu]

I like that a lot. I also find that what frustrated me about comparing is I never did it. I don't feel like you or I ever did that in our heads ourselves. It was always from another source, whether it was teachers or parents or what have you. And like, as an adult who is not influenced by teachers or my parents as much, like, I don't actually notice myself doing that with friends anymore. And it's like a lot more calming. Cause I'm happy that everybody's shit is going right.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. You can just be happy for each other's successes, right?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah.

[Carol Wu]

Cause there's space for everyone.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, there really is.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

And I feel like one other thing that we talked about a little earlier is like now that we are both in like a financially stable position, like when we go out, I feel like you and I will like punch each other to pay for the bill.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I didn't really answer this question earlier, but if I'm with friends one on one, what we do, I do think that as we grow older, it's kind of like, I'll get the bill this time and then it's not like a mental tit for tat. But you'll just recall next time you got to dinner. Oh, you know Vivian grabbed the bill next last time. Let me grab it this time. I also like if I have friends visiting. I also. And I'm hosting. And let's say there's. Whether they're staying with me or not. I also like to grab the bill sometimes, too, because they traveled out to come see me or spend time with me. So I like to do that. I mean, it's not like a hard and fast rule, but I generally try to do that.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, I love it. You always give such good advice to me when I'm down my lowest. I mean, I even remember the time that I got home and realized that I had forgotten my house key. And I was sitting outside in the rain and I called you and I was like, carol, come get me, please. It's raining. And you drove all the way and got me even after our families had moved.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah. And then I went to your house and it was nice and dry, and I got into your clothes and then stole them again. So to kind of wrap up our show, I want to get your POV on. Why do you think we've stayed friends for over two decades?

[Carol Wu]

I think we complement each other well. Our energies complement each other well. Was that woo woo?

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, that's very woo woo. But you're more. You've always been more woo woo than I have been. Like, yeah. You're not like collecting rocks or like crystals or anything, but like.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. And I think. And this is something that Charlie pointed out to me too. Just kind of who we surround ourselves by. I think life is more interesting when you're friends with people who are different from yourself. How fun would it be or not fun would it be if everyone was just a clone? Right. You thought the same way, had the same opinions, did the same thing. I mean, that's not a bad thing either, but I think variety is the spice of life.

[Vivian Tu]

Oh, my God. Like a personal self help episode. Okay, so to close us off, I will ask you one final question. And Charlie's gonna hate me for this, but what is one thing that you have been eyeing to purchase in the next month or so?

[Carol Wu]

Next month or so. Okay, so we're currently in austerity saving mode.

[Vivian Tu]

Okay.

[Carol Wu]

Because we have a lot of travel coming up next year. So Charlie's been reminding me that every piece of clothing that I buy means.

[Vivian Tu]

That'S one less thing.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah. Or that's the opportunity cost or decrease in budget that we can spend on our trips next year. But I am eyeing some jewelry for my birthday. You answered that so quickly.

[Vivian Tu]

You were like it's austerity mode.

[Carol Wu]

But yes, I am eyeing some jewelry for my birthday. I love jewelry.

[Vivian Tu]

So I can't wait to borrow this jewelry and never give it back. No, I'm just kidding.

[Carol Wu]

You can borrow.

[Vivian Tu]

I tried to do the reverse. I try to have you take stuff back to your place, but then you never do and you're like charlie will be mad if I come home with your stuff cause we're trying to get rid of my stuff.

[Carol Wu]

Exactly.

[Vivian Tu]

But sometimes I do ship you stuff without asking. Just a little treat.

[Carol Wu]

Oh, the treat that you recently shipped me. I unpacked it all recently. Well, it's been unpacked, but I took it out of all the boxes and all the wrapping this weekend. Actually it was very, very soothing to unpack it.

[Vivian Tu]

All the clicking asmr. I know you love a little soothing beauty routine, but I think that's all for today. I just really wanted to explore money and friendships and our friendship and the fact that we've been friends for so long. And I like to think that what's the rule? They say if you're friends for seven years, you'll get to be friends for a lifetime.

[Carol Wu]

Yeah.

[Vivian Tu]

Yeah, I really think that we will be so thanks for coming onto the podcast.

[Carol Wu]

Thanks for having me.

[Vivian Tu]

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. If you like the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcastourrichbff.com follow net worth and Chillpod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast related news and you can follow me at yourrichbff for even more financial know how. See you next week. Bye.

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