← Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF
Networth and Chill with Your Rich BFF
How Student Loans Nearly Ruined Comedian Joel Kim Booster's Life!
00:57:47
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- [00:00]
A
Every other adult in my life was telling me, just take out loans. Just take out loans. You can defer them. You can defer them. If you can't pay them, you'll pay them back eventually. Having loans for forever is normal. It's fine. Every senior had to sit down and talk with them about how your plan for paying off your loans. And she sat down and looked at my loan debt and looked at my major and literally said to me, what were you thinking? I was spending more in student loan payments than I was in rent for over 10 years.
- [00:26]
B
Foreign. What's up rich friends? Welcome back to another episode of Net Worth and Chill with me, your host, Vivian Tu, AKA your rich BFF and your favorite Wall street girly. Now let's cut straight to the chase. I love a good laugh. Like truly comedy is my love language. But here's the thing. Making people laugh is one of the hardest jobs out there. And turning those laughs into real hard cash and a sustainable career, well, that's a whole nother. For so long, comedians were only told that there was one path to success, one way to make it one type of story that sells. But today's guest said, nah, I'm gonna do it my way. And built an incredible career by being unapologetically himself, writing, acting, and creating content that is as smart as it is hilarious. Everyone, please welcome comedian, actor, writer and producer who starred in shows like Lute, Big Mouth and Fire Island, Joel Kombooster.
- [01:24]
A
Hello. Thank you for having me.
- [01:25]
B
Thank you so much for being here. It's been a minute since we've seen each and before we get into everything, I'd like to warm everybody up, warm up the friendship. So we're gonna start with an icebreaker. Okay, so you host the podcast Bad Dates. What was the most expensive bad date you've been on? Support for the show comes from Amazon. It's December and that means no more neglecting your gift list. Find everything you need for everyone in your life on Amazon. Like a nice gaming chair for your teenager. Because if they're gonna game, they might as well do it in style and with good posture. Or for your mother in law who's always complaining about the cold. A heated blanket is a game changer gift that will cement you in her good graces forever. Shop Amazon for holiday deals.
- [02:05]
A
Now this is a tough question for me because I was never a dater really in my especially when I lived in New York, I was working 50 hours a week at a startup job and then doing open mics until like 2am every night. So there really wasn't a lot of room to date in general. But I think, like, the worst date I've ever paid for was. Was. We'll have to bleep the name of the movie because I'm friends with the people who made it. But my current partner and I went and saw the movie in theaters and we were the only people in the theater and it was not good. And so in that way, it was the worst date. But unfortunately it was also. I don't have a lot of bad date stories myself. It ended up being the best kind of date because we sat there and did Mystery Science about this movie. Just like talking and riffing and doing bits and like, you know, making fun of the movie. And it ended up. It started as such a bad date because the movie was so bad, but then it ended up being like one of the best dates that we ever had because honestly, it made. He tells it now. It's when he realized that he was like, low key in love with me because he was like, if I can see the one of the worst movies I've ever seen and still have an amazing time with this guy, then, like, it must mean something.
- [03:26]
B
It must mean something.
- [03:27]
A
Yeah. So it was a bad date that turned into a really good date. But yeah, that's the closest I can think of.
- [03:31]
B
Side note, I feel like dating for you must have been hard because sometimes I feel like if you're interesting enough and you're funny enough, every date's a good date. But then you can't tell if you actually like the other person or just think yourself is funny.
- [03:46]
A
Yeah. I don't know if that was necessarily my issue. I think, like, I, for a long time in my 20s, really wanted everything to work.
- [03:54]
B
Yeah.
- [03:55]
A
So, like, I would talk myself into liking guys and. And certainly, like, talk myself into thinking dates were amazing, sex was amazing where it really wasn't. And then, like, once I hit my, like, late 20s, early 30s, I was like, there's no room in my life for this. I don't care. And I was never the type of person. I never understood this from an economic standpoint and from an emotional standpoint. So many of my friends who dated casually would be like, about to go on a third date with a guy and they'd be like, oh, I don't even know if I like him. But like, whatever, I'll go out and see him, like, give it some time. And I'm like, babe, if you're going on a third date with someone, you should want be excited to see them at the very least, like, why are you going out spending all this money on these dates with people you don't even like?
- [04:40]
B
Yeah, like, it just.
- [04:41]
A
It doesn't make any sense to me. You know, primarily I talk about it from, you know, the emotional standpoint of, like, don't put yourself through bad dates just because you want to be, you know, on the hunt and looking for the right person. And you have to. It's a numbers game. But also, like, stop spending your money.
- [04:56]
B
On these dates, these terrible dates.
- [04:58]
A
Yeah. If this is not something you even are excited about doing, don't spend those.
- [05:02]
B
Hundreds of dollars and don't kiss frogs. So to kind of take us back a little bit, let's rewind. You've talked openly about being adopted from South Korea, growing up in a conservative Christian household in rural Illinois, because there's so many people who look like us in rural Illinois. How did your upbringing shape your relationship with money and financial security?
- [05:23]
A
I mean, it had a lot of. To do with the way I look at money now. I grew up with not a lot of money at all. Both my parents went through periods of unemployment, and those were really, you know, tough times for our family. I would say that, like, we. We toggled between being lower class. Lower class and lower middle class.
- [05:42]
B
Yeah.
- [05:43]
A
Through much of my upbringing. And my parents were, you know, Reaganomics. Like, you know, they believed in the trickle down, even though none of it was trickling down on us, like, all of that stuff. And in. They. There was a period in my life when they. We got allowance, and they, in order to try and instill in us a hatred of taxes, started taxing our allowance and taking a portion of our allowance and putting it in this big jug of money, basically. And all of our taxes would go into this jug. And then when it was big enough, they would either, like, spend that money for, like, a fun trip or a movie, like, excursion or like, if the house. If like, the washing machine needed fixing or something like that, they use the money for that. But unfortunately, it kind of had the opposite effect of, like, help making us hate taxes. Because in my mind, even at a young age, I was like, oh, wait, so like, I get slightly less money every week, but eventually we'll get to go to Six Flags, right? Like, that's like, I'm cool. That seems fine. That seems like a fair trade off.
- [06:51]
B
Yeah.
- [06:52]
A
So it sort of left me, like, coming out of it of being like, yeah, taxes, when used appropriately. Actually, you know, if, if, if all our tax money was going towards Infrastructure and trips to Six Flags. I think I would be.
- [07:03]
B
You'd be cool.
- [07:04]
A
I would be much happier.
- [07:05]
B
Yeah.
- [07:05]
A
With the amount of taxes that I pay. Sure.
- [07:07]
B
Oh, that's actually such a good lesson. I actually encourage parents who, like, ask me about this to do that, because it, One, helps you budget your paycheck, but two, like, to your exact point of, like, showing, like, shared resources are beneficial.
- [07:24]
A
Yeah.
- [07:24]
B
Like, things that support the house. Like, if you want a trampoline, we all have to save for the trampoline.
- [07:28]
A
Exactly. And I mean, we would do this sort of thing all the time. Like, we really. When the N64 came out, I really, really wanted one for my birthday, and my parents were like, absolutely not. That is way too expensive for. For your birthday. And my brother and my sister and I got together and we hatched this plan. We went to our parents with this proposal, which was, if my brother and my sister also give up their birthdays, can this just be, like, a joint birthday gift for all three of us that we happened to get on my birthday? And they. And they were down for that. And so, like, we. We, from a young age were always.
- [08:03]
B
Thinking a children's union.
- [08:04]
A
Little, Little schemes. And. And. Yes. And. And, you know, plans to. To sort of circumvent the lack of funds that my family had.
- [08:12]
B
Wow, I love that. And so talk to me a little bit about your journey into comedy. Like, when did you know that was something that you wanted to do? Was it just, you know, making your siblings laugh or.
- [08:25]
A
Yeah, I mean, I'd always been, like, a funny little kid, and then, you know, in high school and stuff like that. I think that, you know, there's this misconception, I think, that every gay guy is funny. And. And I will say, in my experience, most of them are. Yeah. I think this comes as a result of, though, like, for me, at least, I don't want to speak for everybody, but, like, I was pretty obviously gay in high school. Even before I was out, people were, you know, calling me gay and other things. And before I, you know, I even knew about it myself. And so by the time I came out in high school, when I was 16, I think when you're not able to hide who you are, you do one of two things. You either, like, make yourself so small and invisible that people just don't notice you and so you can get by that that way, or you took the other path, which is you make yourself so big and funny and the class clown and the funny one, so that it sort of makes up for the.
- [09:21]
B
You know, they're laughing with you, not at you.
- [09:23]
A
Yeah, exactly. And that was the path that I took. And, you know, I did start to become a little bit of a class clown and throwing it right back and, like, making people laugh. And that was sort of my defense mechanism from bullying when I was in high school. And so I developed that. But I never really thought about standup or comedy as a career ever. When I was growing up up, nothing about what was happening in comedy outside of Margaret Cho made it feel like it was for me, you know. And so it wasn't until I moved to Chicago after college and was doing theater mostly in Chicago that I found standup and started doing stand up at first is just like an extracurricular creative outlet for myself to sort of, you know, be able to write and perform at the same time. I never thought it would turn into a career. It was just for me. In fact, I think part of the reason that my early days in stand up were so successful is because I didn't put any pressure on myself because I was like, this is just a hobby for me. This is like.
- [10:18]
B
You had a full time job?
- [10:18]
A
Yeah, I had a full time job, and I was doing a ton of storefront theater in Chicago, writing plays, acting in plays. And I thought that was going to be my path forward. And so standup was just this thing I would do on the weekends sometimes as like a fun valve release, basically, for me to just, like, be. Just do exactly what I wanted to do, you know, without any collaboration with anyone else but the audience. And then it just slowly became the more interesting thing, the most interesting thing I was doing creatively in my life. And that's when I just sort of decided that I was like, okay, this is sort of my path forward and I want to do this instead. But, yeah, it wasn't. It was never part of the game plan for me growing up.
- [10:58]
B
Now talk to me about the economics of a typical gig. Like, did you make a lot of money?
- [11:03]
A
This is the thing about. This is sort of the pathway. The standard pathway for most standups is you start. You do open mics, okay? And these are mostly held at bars. Some comedy clubs will do them as well. I mostly did the ones in bars in Brooklyn and lower Manhattan. And there's no money in that. In fact, you're spending money oftentimes because you have to go to the bar and, you know, sometimes you have to buy a drink to sign up for the. The bucket or whatever and for the open mic, and then you move up into Getting booked on smaller, like, bar shows, like, you know, that are usually produced by other comedians. And I think this has changed a lot since I was coming up. Now you'll get thrown, like, you know, a portion of the door sales, if they're even charging at the door. But I would say a large majority of the shows that are happening in Brooklyn bars in New York are not charging money, you know, and so there's very little money to be had in that. I think the most I would get paid, the majority of my shows when I was at this stage of my career would be drink tickets. We were paid in drink tickets.
- [12:06]
B
Oh, my God.
- [12:07]
A
So again, more drinking. I, like, just. I drank so much when I was coming up as comic, it was insane. And then, you know, when I started headlining clubs, I skipped a step. A lot of comics then go from that to featuring and opening for other comics on the road who are, you know, in your town, at the comedy club, headlining the comedy club, and that you'll get paid, like, maybe $500 for a weekend, and that's the higher end. And then once you start headlining clubs, it's. This is when it gets a little bit more like, loosey goosey. Because I would say the average you'd get paid to do a full weekend of show at a club is somewhere between 10 and 20K. And that in 20K is like, if you're, you know.
- [12:51]
B
Selling out.
- [12:52]
A
Yeah, selling out. But the thing about most of the structures of those deals is that if you sell out, then there's bonuses to be had.
- [13:01]
B
Okay.
- [13:01]
A
If you sell out certain days or how much you sell. And so there's like, there's. There's what you. The base pay you get paid, which is that like 10 to, you know, $15,000 or. And then on top of that, there are bonuses built in if you happen to sell out. So there's a walkout potential that they list, too. So the walkout potential can be sometimes, you know, up to, like, 30 grand, depending on how big the club is and how much, you know, you're actually selling out. Now, when I was starting out headlining, I. No one knew who I was, you know, so I was not selling out most of these clubs that I was performing at. So it was mostly just the. The takeaway, like, base pay that I was making, which at the time, for me, coming out of working 50 hours a week at this day job, I spent. I was spending more in student loan payments than I was in rent for over 10 years. And that was brutal. And so, like, getting these checks for like 10 grand. And I was still headlining these clubs mostly while I, for the first, there was like a year or so where I still had the day job and I would go on weekends to.
- [14:05]
B
Do they know about your alter ego?
- [14:07]
A
Yeah, they did. The nice thing about working for very small startup is that they, the energy is very much like the more successful you are, the more successful we are.
- [14:14]
B
Yeah.
- [14:15]
A
And in my head, I was always like, the more successful I am, the.
- [14:18]
B
More likely I'm going to quit.
- [14:20]
A
But you keep thinking that.
- [14:21]
B
Yeah.
- [14:22]
A
And so that, that amount, like 10 grand at that point in my life, sporadically, you know, every couple of months meant a miracle. It was, it was life changing, honestly, it was life changing money at that time in my life. And so it just alleviated a lot of pain because like I was living paycheck to paycheck until my 30s and, and really like barely making it to the next paycheck.
- [14:46]
B
Yeah.
- [14:46]
A
Especially when I was living in New York, you know, so it was, you know, now it's like it's less lucrative for me to do all the time because the other structure too is going outside the club system and, and going to a venue like the Bell House here in Brooklyn and New York is. It's a, it's a music venue primarily, but a lot of comics do shows there and there. It's much more about ticket sales. It's much more about like, you know, they split the door. And you can make a lot more money sometimes depending on if you can sell out. Yeah, you can make a lot more money doing a sort of indie venue than going through the traditional club route. Because you also have to do like a traditional club week can be anywhere from a show on Wednesday, show on Thursday, two shows on Friday, two shows on Saturday, and a show on Sunday to some variation of that, maybe Thursday to Saturday, something like that. I would say most of the club shows I do are Thursday to Saturday, but like, that's a lot of shows for the same amount of money I would make doing a show at a place like the Bell House for maybe two shows.
- [15:54]
B
Yeah, you know, it's less work.
- [15:55]
A
Yeah, it's less work for the same amount of money. So, you know, it's, it's all. You have to do the calculus in your head of like, what matters to you and what's going to be. Because again though, if you sell out every show at the club where you're doing six shows in a week, your kickers are potential is much higher than it would be at one of the Indie venues. So.
- [16:14]
B
And we're heading into the holiday, holiday season. We know that, you know, gift giving is better than gift receiving. When you got your first big check, did you buy a gift for yourself, for somebody else? What was it?
- [16:28]
A
I paid off my student loans.
- [16:30]
B
That's a good gift.
- [16:31]
A
And this was like much, this was not from stand up money, I will say, because I, I mean I could talk, we could do a whole podcast.
- [16:38]
B
On your student loans.
- [16:39]
A
I mean it was, I. So I went to college early 2000s, when we were not having the conversations we're having now about predatory student loan.
- [16:48]
B
Yeah.
- [16:49]
A
The realities of taking out that much debt and like certainly the realities for me, taking out that amount of debt, high six figures for a theater degree from a school that no one had ever heard of.
- [16:59]
B
Right.
- [17:00]
A
And I remember sitting down with we'll bleep her name. But I remember her full name who was the financial advisor at my school. Very small school. And every senior had to sit down and talk with them about how your, your plan for paying off your loans. And she sat down and looked at my loan debt and looked at my major and literally said to me, what were you thinking? Because I had no plan and there was no clear pathway to paying off my loans with a theater degree. You know, like what I, what I was like, I was explaining to her what I want to do. I wanted to move to Chicago and write plays and do little storefront theater shows. And she was like, are you crazy? You're crazy. And I mean, she had no way of knowing that I would get, I would win the career lottery. Which is so. It is quite random being this successful for a lot of people. Yeah.
- [17:45]
B
Have you ever contacted her to be like, eat shit.
- [17:49]
A
I've thought about it, I've thought about it.
- [17:51]
B
We're different in that way.
- [17:52]
A
I wanted, you know, I've wanted to send her many. I, I hope that maybe she's seen my name, you know, out there or something like that remembers me. I don't know if she would remember me at all. But I mean it's fair, it's. I don't blame her necessarily. She could have lurked on the delivery.
- [18:05]
B
A little bit, but for a bad side manner.
- [18:07]
A
I wish that I had talked to Nancy before I went to school, you know, because every adult, you have to also understand I was emancipated at 17. I have not taken a dime of my parents money since I was 17 years old, which is a cornerstone of my personality now. Because everything I have now is for the most part because of me.
- [18:25]
B
Yeah.
- [18:25]
A
And I'm very proud of that. But I wish I had someone in my life who was not like every other adult in my life was telling me, just take out loans. Just take out loans. You can defer them. You can defer them. If you can't pay them, you'll pay them back eventually. Having loans for forever is normal. It's fine. And like, that's such. It was bad advice. It was really, really bad.
- [18:46]
B
It's bad advice.
- [18:47]
A
And it's, it's kind of hard for me now because I talk to kids all the time who are like, oh, like, should I go to theater school? Like, what's your advice on that? And it's really hard for me to look at a 17 year old in the face now and say, yes, do whatever it takes to go to college. Because unless your parents can pay for it, unless you're going to a school that is a name that will have material effect on your success after school, don't take out loans to go to theater school. I'm sorry, I can't in good conscience tell anyone to do that because I had scholarships, I had a lot of school paid for and I still had to take out this insane amount of debt to make it through. And I just, you know, I look at kids now who want to do what I'm doing and I'm like, if you don't have those things that I just mentioned, move to New York, get a job and start taking acting class. Because that's like, you'll get the same like education, living in, just living in New York by osmosis. Than you will, than you would going and putting yourself in crippling debt for a job that you just don't know will pay out. And making those decisions at a time when you are not ready to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life.
- [19:55]
B
Your brain's not even fully formed.
- [19:56]
A
Exactly.
- [19:57]
B
Yeah.
- [19:57]
A
You know, so, yeah, that's, that's my, my stump speech on, on student loans. But it was. If I had not booked. I was on an NBC sitcom very briefly. It was famously the lowest rated premiere in NBC history and canceled very shortly after. But luckily I still got paid for all 10 episodes of that show. And because of that show, I was able to pay off my student loans. And if I didn't have that show, I would still be, I'd be paying them off until I was in my, you know, 70s, 80s. Like it was bad.
- [20:26]
B
You mentioned six figures. Can I ask, like, what was the student loan?
- [20:29]
A
I think after After I paid them off, because I had private student loans too, where the interest was insane. I probably ended up spending somewhere north of 80k for a theater degree at a school that no one has ever heard of because it ballooned. It ballooned like crazy because I did defer those first couple of years. And, you know, when you defer a private loan, the interest, it just will kill you. Snowballs will literally kill you. And like, so, yeah, I think I ended up paying probably around, you know, that number.
- [21:04]
B
That's crazy.
- [21:05]
A
It is insane.
- [21:06]
B
It's a lot of. That's a car, a nice car.
- [21:08]
A
I think everybody in their cars listening to this is like, was right. Like, she was right. She was right to be like, what were you thinking? Because what was I thinking? But, you know, I, I really bet on myself in that regard and, you know, the odds were not in my favor by any means, but, you know, it turned out, you know, positive for me. But again, like, I just can't look at anybody who's making those decisions now and tell them with good conscience to do what I did because, you know, I am talented. I'll cop to that. But talent has very little to do with success in this industry. It is so much. It's about so many factors outside of your control that have nothing to do with your talent. And so you can't be sure ever that, you know, you're gonna. The pathway is clear and success is in your future. You can't plan for when it's gonna happen either. So, you know, it's a. It's. It's tough.
- [22:04]
B
But, yeah, I feel like that was actually incredibly wise, practical advice. And now I have to ask you for another piece of advice. As someone whose income is generally unpredictable. There are months where you are probably making it rain, and then there are months that you make zero, Very literally make zero.
- [22:20]
A
Very much. That.
- [22:21]
B
How do you manage your spending? How are you budgeting? How did you do? How do you do it now and how did you do it then?
- [22:26]
A
I mean, I have never been good with money. I'll just say that we're on our financial journey.
- [22:32]
B
We don't, we don't negative self talk.
- [22:34]
A
I, I was very much on my financial journey, and when I was living paycheck to paycheck, I was always bills first.
- [22:39]
B
Okay.
- [22:40]
A
Always, Always. And that is something that my parents really instill in me was like, you know, we would go without it because they had to pay the bills.
- [22:48]
B
Yeah.
- [22:48]
A
You know, and that was always something that I witnessed. And they, I was told, and they really lived that. And so for me, like that was, I didn't want to get further in debt. I didn't wanna, you know, so I was always like paying down everything, paying my at least the minimum payments on everything. But, you know, with the money left over, I wasn't thinking like, okay, I have X amount of money for food. X amount of money for. I was not budgeting, it was just like, it was sort of like, okay, after bills, I have this amount of money and we'll see what happens. And sometimes I would end up like the week before my paycheck, you know, buying one thing of takeout and stretching it for four days for food. And sometimes I would end up with a little bit of money to put in a savings account at the end of the week. Not often, I would say, I don't think my savings account was ever more than a couple thousand dollars, if that. So up until recently. And so yeah, it was not the early days before success were not super regimented, I would say, beyond paying my bills.
- [23:53]
B
And we mentioned up until recently, up until recently, up until recently, like fast forward to now, you've written for shows like Big Mouth. The other two, you've acted in shows like Loot, Search Party. You do stand up. You're hosting a reality TV show. I mean, you are doing a thousand different things. Octopus arms into every single pot. How do you think about these different revenue streams? What pays the most and what do you love the most? Support for the show comes from Amazon. This holiday season, Amazon has got you covered for all of your holiday shopping needs. For your sister whose bangs are creeping even further up her forehead because she insists on cutting them every six months, you can get an actually nice pair of salon grade shears. Say goodbye to the kitchen scissors for your partner who's been craving a new crafty hobby to keep them from picking up their phone 24 7, you can get a cross stitch kit or embroidery kit for them to try out. And you can't forget yourself. You don't need to let your limited space keep you from your home gym dreams. You can start small by gifting yourself an adjustable dumbbell set. You name it, Amazon has it. And with last minute deals, you can save up to 40% on accessories, home decor, toys and much, much more. Grab a cute hat for your sister while you're at it when she inevitably chops an inch too far and needs an emotional support beanie while her bangs grow out. Shop Amazon for holiday deals now.
- [25:09]
A
So for me, like, I love to work, I love to especially like that's.
- [25:14]
B
Very Asian of us. Yeah, very, very.
- [25:16]
A
And that, you know, famously adopted. So it must be nature. Not nature.
- [25:19]
B
Yeah, Y.
- [25:21]
A
You know, and that's another thing my parents instilled in me. I've had a job since I was 14, and I have been employed since I was 14 consistently. I have not had a work gap since I was 14 years old. Which is also like, I was talking to a friend of mine and he was like, well, I also got a job at 14. And then like, we were competing over who worked harder as a 14 year old and I was like, this is the most American conversation, the struggle Olympics that we could be having right now. Because it's so bleak that like, we were like, oh, yeah, like, I got a job as young as possible. And it's just like, yes, there's like an argument to be said of like, yes, instill good work ethic, blah, blah, blah. But also it's like, so sad that, like, we had to do that.
- [25:58]
B
Yeah.
- [25:58]
A
You know, but yeah. So always been employed and just never. What was the question again?
- [26:07]
B
Yeah, just like, of all the things that you do.
- [26:08]
A
Oh, yes. Oh, I love. I love to work, so I love to do it all. And I'm very bad at saying no, but for me, I would say writing is the thing that if I had to step back and say, like, what do I love? Also weighted with how much money I make from doing it.
- [26:25]
B
Yeah.
- [26:26]
A
Like, I. I could. I could live reasonably well in a year just from selling a movie script, you know, like. Like that could. That I. I was. I would say I probably make as much selling a script as I. More than I did in my salary job my first couple years out of college at a startup. So that, like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be rolling in, I wouldn't call, you know, but it would put me in a pretty good safe zone if I was still renting and it's still, you know, and money left over to save too. So, yeah, if I had to choose, like, writing would be the thing that I'm probably best at and also brings in the most financial security for me.
- [27:10]
B
You know what's so crazy? I asked you what was your favorite thing? And then you said, this is the thing I'm best at. Not the same question, actually.
- [27:17]
A
Oh, I mean, also, I guess it is my favorite thing.
- [27:20]
B
Is it okay?
- [27:21]
A
It is like, in part because I'm. It's the thing I'm the best at. And I think, like, that's connected for me. I think that, like, it's the place where I feel the most comfortable and the most with the least amount of imposter syndrome. I would say okay, and standup is a close second to Honestly, even though it's the least amount of money that I make, it's certainly not the thing that's paying my price.
- [27:41]
B
Do you know what the pie chart of, like, general percentages of like, what you make from writing, producing, acting?
- [27:47]
A
Yeah, roughly. I would say it is primarily now, in this, like, period of my life back in 2022, it was mostly, I would say the biggest chunk was writing, producing because of the movie and because of all this other. And a lot of the writing jobs that I had and selling scripts and blah, blah, blah. I would say now because of Lute and now I'm also on Scrubs and I've done a bunch of other random acting gigs in the last year. I would say acting is probably the biggest chunk currently with writing. Close second. And then stand up very far behind. Yeah, is, is I will never, I will never say never. I, I, I hold on to stand up and I still do stand up. And a lot of people in my position kind of don't, don't because it's doesn't make them A lot of money requires a lot of time. It requires a lot of time on the road. But for me, like, going back to the imposter syndrome, you know, people love to denigrate my success online. I see the comments of like, oh.
- [28:42]
B
He'S, you should not be reading this.
- [28:43]
A
I know, Trust me, I'm, I've gotten a lot better. But, you know, oh, he's a DEI hire. His movie never would have been made if there wasn't a diversity push in Hollywood. All this stuff, I see that and it's, for the most part, it rolls off whatever. I know not to take it seriously, but it's hard not to internalize some of it. And the thing about standup that I love is that in that moment when I'm on stage, the audience is either laughing or they're not laughing. And you cannot tell me shit when they're laughing. Because the thing is, it's like people don't laugh for an hour when I'm on stage because of woke. No one is laughing because they're like, oh, he's the diversity hire. And I'm woke and I want to laugh. No maybe one, two jokes here and there, maybe. But for a society sustained hour, no one's faking a laugh for that long. So I know I'm crushing it. And it's the kind of in the moment, like it's the closest thing to a meritocracy in the arts that I think we have because it's like the immediacy of is this working? I know it's working because they're laughing and I know I'm good because they're laughing. Like that always re energizes me. And that reminds me that, like, oh, no, no, no. I'm really good at this. And so I want to hold onto that for as long as possible. As long as it makes sense to do it.
- [29:55]
B
Yeah. Oh, that gave me chills. I love that. Hi, friends. Quick pause in our show to take a question from my besties in phone a friend presented by Amazon, where you can save on all of your last minute gifting needs. Jazz asks, what is the smartest way to shop for holiday gifts? I'm in college, so I don't have a lot of disposable income to spend. Okay, so holiday shopping on a college budget. I feel you. I've been there. Here's what I want you to do. First, set that budget. And I mean actually write it down. Figure out exactly how much you can spend without touching your emergency fund or money that you are going to need for rent, for food, for textbooks. Be realistic. It's better to spend $50 really thoughtfully than below $200 and stress about it in January. Second, make a list and prioritize. Who are you actually buying for? Sometimes we feel pressure to buy for everyone, but you can skip your roommate's cousins, boyfriend, okay? Focus on the people who really matter to you. Third, talk to your friends and family. This can feel uncomfortable, but you need to set those boundaries. Chances are you have other relatives that are probably feeling the financial squeeze too. Fourth, tap into those student discounts. Amazon prime student offers student discounts. So stack those discounts with holiday sale to supercharge your savings. Remember, people would rather spend time with you than get an expensive gift that you can't afford. Don't go into debt trying to impress people. I do want to talk about our favorite De and I movie, Fire Island. You wrote, starred, produced, I mean, it was also transparently like one of my favorite things that you have done.
- [31:40]
A
Thank you so much.
- [31:42]
B
I actually learned about it because my lash guy, who by the way, is just this very out loud, proud gay man, he was like, this is the best movie I've ever seen. And then I went and watched it.
- [31:54]
A
Thank you. I love hearing that by the way, because no one is more willing to tell me they hated my movie. Than a drunk gay guy. Really?
- [32:02]
B
That's crazy.
- [32:03]
A
So when I hear about stories like that, that really makes me feel good. So thank you.
- [32:09]
B
My question for you is how is, is the money different when you are creating something like that was your brainchild versus just acting or just being hired as a writer?
- [32:21]
A
It's, I mean it's night and it's, it's everything. It's partially why I love being a writer, actor, producer. Because you, you get paid separately for all three of those jobs on the movie.
- [32:32]
B
Joel said vertical integration.
- [32:34]
A
Exactly. Like, I'm sorry but like I got, you know, my fee as an actor, I got my fee as an executive producer, I got my fee as a writer. And you know, and then as a writer and as an actor, I get residuals from that too, from the unions. And so, you know, those are all streams of revenue that are coming in at the same time. I mean, I say all the time about my house in la. This is the house that Fire island built. Because I never would have been in a position to buy a house if it weren't for that movie. And you know, the only reason I'm able to maintain and pay my mortgage is because of the other work that I have. But it is, I never thought I would own a house. It was just never in the cards for me. Talk to me about why. Because of the way I grew up, you know, I don't want to get too much into my parents business but like, you know, it just never seemed like it was gonna happen for me if it, you know, didn't necessarily happen for them. And I just, you know, the student loans of it all, I was not able to save. Like the housing market is insane.
- [33:38]
B
Insane.
- [33:39]
A
Even when it's not insane to someone like me, it seems insane, you know, and like I just never thought I would have enough money, specifically living in places like New York and or la, of course, to ever be able to afford down payment, let alone be able to keep up with a mortgage payment. And so, you know, it just, it was. I still sort of walk around my house and I'm like, I can't believe this is my life. I can't believe that I did this because it just, it was not something that I ever grew up dreaming about as a possibility for myself. So yeah, it's, it's, it's the reason I like being, you know, a multi hyphenate. I'm very lucky in that way because it is nice to know that when, you know, I'm not booking acting roles, I could be Working on another script. When I'm working on, you know, I'm constantly writing even when I have to have other work to be doing. But, you know, it's just, it's, it's, it's a cobbling together in the same way that I was cobbling together work when I had different, you know, multiple jobs, multiple day jobs to like make ends meet and make it work, you know. But yeah, I, I love it and I love being able to have used different parts of my brain for, for different parts of the project.
- [34:47]
B
Did you ever feel pressure, whether with Fire island or any of your other work, to make it, quote, unquote, more broadly appealing? Or did you ever feel like, you know what, this is me, I'm going to do what I want?
- [35:02]
A
There was, you know, listen, Fire island was a studio movie. So of course there were notes and there were pushback. And I will say candidly that there is a lot more voiceover narration in that movie than I initially planned for or wanted because I think the voiceover unfortunately gave was a great place to answer notes where it was like, oh, I don't think people will understand this joke. Can we explain it in the voiceover?
- [35:29]
B
Lack of media literacy.
- [35:30]
A
Yeah, so it was just like, so there was that. But I didn't experience, I think like when the movie was bought, they knew what movie they were buying.
- [35:38]
B
Right.
- [35:39]
A
You know, and so, and I think that my executives who worked and helped me create Fire island were very much of the mind. And I think part of the reason the movie was a success was that I wasn't trying to do a lot of that. And I think that even like a straight person watching a movie that is about gay people but made for straight people knows when they're being condescended to, knows when they're being spoon fed, something that is like packaged for them. And I think even for me, it's much more interesting to watch a movie about a group I am not a part of when it feels more authentic and I don't have to understand everything, you know, and I may be alienated by some of it, but at least I know I'm seeing something authentic, you know, And I think like the authenticity part, like people know, you know, even if they're not in the group, they know when something is being spoon fed to them and they don't like it. And I think part of the reason my movie was a success both with my community and with people outside the community is because you felt like you were getting a real sense of who these people were. And, like, how the. How these people would be real in the real world. And, like, you're getting a peek into a culture, not just having the culture presented to you in a palatable way. And so they knew that, and they knew that that would be. That was the better option and the better way to go. And so, you know, there were little notes here and there, but for the most part, no. And, you know, I was instructed very early on by elder comedians when I started doing standup that I should adjust my material and not talk about dating, not talk about sex. Like, do not talk about dating, because then they'll think about you having sex. And then when they think about how you're having sex, they'll think about how you have sex, and it'll gross them out. That was pretty much the conventional wisdom. And they were like, unless you only want to play gay rooms, don't talk about being gay. And, like, I never listened to that. And listen, like I said, I was headlining these clubs all across the nation. In Wilmington, North Carolina, in, like, or South Carolina, and all these places, you know, in the south, in the Midwest, on the West Coast, east coast, wherever. And I would go out on stage and I would talk about the things I wanted to talk about. And none of these people, most of these audiences were straight. And the thing is, is if you give. Give your audiences more credit, like, because they're willing to, like, they're willing to go along with you. And those audiences were great because I had to go out on stage and prove myself to these people because they didn't know who I was. I was not a famous comedian that they were coming to see, that they were sort of inclined to be on their side. And it was a. I think the reason I am a strong comic now is because of that time in my life when I both at the bar shows in New York that I was doing up until the point I was headlining. I had to go out every night and really sell material that was not for, quote, unquote, them. And I didn't have to adjust. I talked about what I wanted to talk about. I did learn different ways to communicate it so that it would hit a little bit harder with people who weren't a part of. In my community. But, like, for the most part, I didn't. I have never been someone who wants to adjust for the moment or for the audience.
- [38:31]
B
Yeah, you got to make your art.
- [38:33]
A
Yeah. No, because again, people know when you're. When you're twisting yourself into a knot to fit their, you know, point of view. And I think most people would rather see something that is unique and, or at least, at the very least authentic to the person that they're watching. And they could, they can sense the, the fake.
- [38:52]
B
You know, Speaking of authenticity, your standup special, Psychosexual came out on Netflix in 2022. I don't know if it's just me, but a Netflix comedy standup special feels like kind of like the comedian holy grail. Like that's what you're working towards. What does that mean financially for you? Was that life changing money or less than people think?
- [39:18]
A
I think less than people think only because, you know, it was a big deal to get a Netflix special, but I also was not a world famous comedian. You know, like, I was not. My special was not shot in a giant auditorium theater. You know, that's just not the kind of comedian I am or the comedian kind of comedian that I want to be. Quite frankly, I'm very happy playing to the houses that I am. And doing a stadium big theater comedian is almost a different skill set than playing to house because it's less intimate.
- [39:46]
B
Okay.
- [39:47]
A
It's, you have to play to the back of the room and the back of the room in those cases is way farther back. And you know, I, I just, my last tour, I would say like some of the biggest venue I did was maybe like 700 seats or something like that. And that's a, that's like, like bigger than I prefer to play. I would say like 350 to 500 is my sweet spot because I really like getting intimate. I like getting, I do a lot of crowd work. I do a lot of like, you know, checking in with the audience. And I like being able to see every single person's face for the most part. I like to be able to like, it feels like a smaller, more intimate experience. And again, I don't necessarily have the skillset to play the Greek, you know, like, it's just a different thing. And yeah, and so I. It was not life changing. Money. The structure of standup specials varies wildly depending on who's producing it and who is and how it's bought. You know, some people self produce the specials and then try and sell it to the net, to the streamer or the network, and then they buy it wholesale with a lump sum of money because the production has already been paid. For some standup specials, they give you a lump sum of money and then they say you get to decide how much of the money goes to the special, the production of the special, and then how Much is left over to pay yourself at the end of the day, which is then you're given this option of like, do I want to make a really pretty like great special and then not really make any money from it or do I want to make a huge amount of money and then produce something that's a little hokey pokey? Yeah, you know, and so that structure exists a lot of times too.
- [41:17]
B
That's terrible.
- [41:18]
A
It's not ideal. Yeah, it's not ideal. And you know, and, but there, you know, there's a million other structures that different places will have for standup specials. But because that was such a huge year for me, I mean, that was the year my movie came out. Yeah, that was the year Loot came out. That was the year my special came out. I would say the special didn't end up being life changing money by virtue of the fact that I was making. I had these other two huge revenue streams randomly in the same year. Now had it been a lighter year and that been the main big thing I did, I think it would have been more significant for me. Definitely.
- [41:56]
B
And speaking of significance and big years, bad years, we've seen strikes in Hollywood recently. Like how did those impact you financially and what does that, you know, kind of reveal to you about even successful entertainers and how like the whole industry basically like halted?
- [42:12]
A
Yeah, no, I mean it shows. I think, you know, there were people who I, I consider big stars talking about their financial struggles and having to sell their houses and things like that during the, the run of the strike. And I will say, you know, I am so lucky that I was a multi hyphenate during that period because I wasn't able to write, I wasn't able to act, but I was still doing a lot of stand up. And that was, that was mostly what filled my time was writing, was doing stand up. I was touring a lot during that period and so I was able to bring in money during that period where a lot of people were not able to bring in money during that period. So I, I, you know, and again, like it wasn't the money that, that, you know, I've now grown a little bit used to getting from these other revenue streams. But it was enough certainly to be able to pay my mortgage and get by and still, you know, do be feel secure in that moment. But it was really scary. And it is one of those things where I think that they, you know, I very big into solidarity was, was pumping money into all the funds for people that were not able to, you know, pay their rent or their mortgages and stuff like that, or put food on the table. And it was really tough because, you know, obviously it was a strategy. I think they really wanted it was. They were playing chicken with us of like, how, how down and out are you willing to go in order to make sure your future is more secure and better with us? And they really thought, I think that they would win. And I think that they didn't expect the amount of solidarity that the unions would have in supporting each other during those tough times.
- [43:53]
B
If comedy were to completely disappear tomorrow, what do you think you would do for a living?
- [43:59]
A
And we're taking out the acting and the writing. All of that, all of the entertainment is gone. I would probably unfortunately go back to tech. Really? I was really good secret tech bro. And I was not on the technical side of things. I started at Groupon. It was my first job out of college, my first big job out of college. I was in customer service. Worked my way up. I was a manager in customer service. Then I became customer ops. I was managing call centers in Texas, Virginia and Ohio from remotely from Chicago at the age of like 24, which was insane. It's the beautiful thing about starting at a startup at 22 is that like you've eventually like you're, you, you have seniority because you've been there the longest, but you have no business. I had no business running these call Centers. You were 24. Yeah, exactly. And, and then I was an account manager and then again customer ops for a much smaller startup. And the thing is, I'm really good at those jobs. I'm really good at project managing. I'm really good at, I'm a very type A organized person and I'm a great communicator and that's really all those jobs require. So I would probably go back to doing that, which is like, you know, it wasn't my favorite thing in the world, but you know, Groupon and that was like early startup days back when the yoga balls and the free kombucha and the snacks and the ping pong tables, that was like new. That felt very new back then. And so it was exciting. And the last startup that I worked at before I quit my job was it was a company of four, you know, and that felt really scrappy and cool and like, you know, we were like, there were no rules and like the job, our job descriptions were pretty nebulous, you know, in a lot of ways. And so if I were to go back to tech, I'd want to work at A company like that, like, you.
- [45:49]
B
Know, where you can wear 17 hats.
- [45:51]
A
Exactly. Yeah.
- [45:53]
B
Okay, so we are kind of coming to an end, but I want to go through a rapid fire of money questions, and you're just going to tell me the first thing that comes to mind.
- [46:03]
A
Okay.
- [46:03]
B
Funniest money story.
- [46:06]
A
Funniest money story. I guess it would have to be. Oh, God, I don't know if I have, like, a funny. I've always taken money so seriously that it is rarely funny to me. I guess, like, the funniest money story I can tell is that I decided to plan a wedding and put in a pool in the same year in one of the worst economies of my adult life. And, boy, can you just. Just do. All I can do is laugh. All I can do is laugh.
- [46:36]
B
Yeah. Oh, you gotta spend all of your money this year. Yeah, right.
- [46:41]
A
That's it. That's it. It's all I'm clearing. Clearing out all the accounts. In a year where the entertainment industry is in a sort of a downturn right now, too, work has not been as stable and consistent. And I don't know what I was thinking, but I'm okay. We're doing. We're doing fine. We're doing okay.
- [46:58]
B
Your fiance's listening to this. Yeah, we're fine.
- [47:00]
A
We're fine.
- [47:01]
B
Yeah, we're fine.
- [47:01]
A
Fine.
- [47:02]
B
What is the best money you've ever spent?
- [47:04]
A
The best money I ever spent. I'm sorry, I mean, I have to go back to the student loan thing.
- [47:09]
B
Bro, you are so lame. You couldn't name something cool you bought? No.
- [47:12]
A
Okay, okay, okay, fine. The best money I ever spent was my engagement ring for my partner.
- [47:21]
B
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:22]
A
That's my partner.
- [47:23]
B
That's a good direction.
- [47:25]
A
How much was was. It was like mid five figures.
- [47:32]
B
Oh, okay. Yeah, that's very healthy amount to be spending on an engagement ring. What is the worst money you've ever spent? What's the worst thing you ever bought that you regret?
- [47:41]
A
College. But no, I would say the worst money that I have ever spent was a PlayStation portal, which is.
- [47:52]
B
What is that?
- [47:53]
A
It's a handheld version of the PlayStation that you can. That like, connects to your PlayStation and you can play it sort of like a switch.
- [48:00]
B
Yeah.
- [48:00]
A
On your couch, but it has to be connected to WI fi and in your home. And it was like one of those things that I bought because I had the money and I thought, why not? But I have used it twice and it was not cheap. And when I think about. And like, I'm so obviously still a Very like conscious person when it comes to money. And I, every time I look at our electronics like cabinet and I see it sitting there collecting dust, I think you're a fucking idiot for buying that.
- [48:29]
B
What would you have spent that money on instead?
- [48:32]
A
I mean, honestly, probably something less permanent. I would have put it towards the tens of thousands of dollars I spend on Uber eats every day.
- [48:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, real. What's your order?
- [48:44]
A
I mean, it depends. We're such couch boys, my partner and I, we don't go out. We've been out to a restaurant one on one probably three times in the five years that we've been together.
- [48:53]
B
What?
- [48:54]
A
Yeah. We are not restaurant people. We are. Let's order in and watch something or do something on our couch. And like. So, yeah, it's, it's. I don't, I don't even want to calculate how much I've spent on takeout in the last year, but it's, it's a hefty amount.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah. Okay. Honestly though, I don't judge you because same. Yeah, like I am melting into my couch.
- [49:14]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [49:16]
B
Do you have a dream splurge purchase for the future?
- [49:19]
A
Yeah, I mean, my dream splurge purchase is to buy a house on Fire Island.
- [49:24]
B
Really?
- [49:25]
A
Yeah. No, I mean, I would love to do that and I would love to do that primarily so that I could. I would love to be in enough of a secure financial position that I would not have to rent it out that I could give weeks away for free to people who would otherwise not be able to make it out. Because here's the thing. The reason the sort of the demographics on Fire island are so homogenous is, you know, obviously racism comes into play. I wrote an entire movie about it. Like that exists Sunday.
- [50:02]
B
For everyone listening who does not live in New York or on the East Coast. The Hamptons is like a very popular place to go during the summer. It's very elite, very, you know, just like old crusty New England. But Fire island is right by the Hamptons and is part of that region, but is historically known for being like a gay enclave.
- [50:23]
A
Yes, exactly. Yeah. And it's beautiful and I would love to rent a house. The reason it's so homogenous, though, is because it's, it's become economically impenetrable to go. The, the, the price for a week to rent a week on that island is so insane. And it was insane back when I first started going when I had no money. I mean, we fit 16 people into a four bedroom house in. To afford to Go. You know, like, that's how I was making it work back then. And now, like, I'm very much. Like, it's so impossible for the kinds of people that would benefit the most from being in that environment cannot afford to go. And so the people who need the community. Yeah, exactly. And so I would love to be able to buy a house and just do like gay birthright. Like, you know, if you can't afford to go, stay in my house when I'm not there and like, just do it. I mean, that's what I get usually a quarter share, like five weeks during the summer. And I'm only able to go to one, maybe two of those weeks. And the other weeks that I don't use, I just give away because I am in a financially stable enough position to not need that money back. And so I contact my friend, shout out to Fran Tirado, who's a community organizer and an editor here in Brooklyn who is really well connected in the queer scene here. And I'm like, babe, gather up all of the low income people of color, trans, like, whatever, people who would not have access to that island and take them and let them live their lives, you know, and have that experience. Because it's like I had so much help getting there when I was poor and in so many areas. And it's like, it would be insane for me not to pay it that forward, especially for a place that I care about that much and is so special and so transformative.
- [51:59]
B
Yeah. The summer I turned gay. Yeah. Who is your richest friend? Or at least the person you look up to financially, you know?
- [52:12]
A
Oh, man, he's gonna hate me for saying this, but unfortunately, I don't know if it's net worth necessarily. There might be people higher than him on this list, but it is Bowen Yang. I mean, talk about multiple revenue streams. The man is the busiest man in Hollywood. But even when we didn't have a lot of money, Bowen had the richest tastes of any person that I had ever known. And like, and this was before we were successful. And so I. We always used to make fun of him and. And like, call him our richest friend back in the day when that was categorically untrue. Just because he has. He has a taste for the finer things, you know, and always has caviar bar. So, yeah. And so, yeah, I would probably, I would wager to guess that it's Bellen for sure.
- [52:57]
B
Okay. Love that. What is the weirdest way you've ever made money? You're telling me there are no Pics of your feet?
- [53:06]
A
No. I mean, I wish I. In fact, somebody offered to pay me for my feet pictures just a couple weeks ago, and I. Out of curiosity, I was like, how much? And they were like $500. And I was like, I feel like I could get more.
- [53:19]
B
Yeah.
- [53:20]
A
For. At this point in my career.
- [53:21]
B
Yeah.
- [53:21]
A
$500 for my feet. No. But I think the weirdest job I ever had was opening for this. Oh. It was a corporate retreat for a bank, a major bank. And I came in, in the middle of the day in a conference room to a bunch of financial people and talked about ketamine. You know, like, I did stand up, and it was just, like, the worst possible. Like, me. Like, I don't know who booked me. It's like, any. All these corporate gigs. I've done shows at, like, people's birthday parties before, and it's like, no one wants that. No one asks for that. Like, the host always thinks it's a good idea. It never is. But I've. Yeah, I've had to drive out to Deep Jersey to be at someone's birthday party before and do stand up for a group of people standing in the backyard who are not paying attention to you at all. Yeah. Couldn't care less if you lived or died. Yeah.
- [54:21]
B
And. Okay, final question is, what is your thought on the general state of affairs and how young people can succeed in this economy?
- [54:34]
A
Yeah, I think my general thoughts on the, like, sort of financial state of the world right now is it's clearly not working. Billionaires should not exist. I think that the wealth gap is. Is widening to such a large extent that it's untenable. It's untenable. It really is. And I. And I don't see anything. Any solution that isn't quite radical to fixing it. And I think, like, it's just tough because I think that people should be more aware and more generous and more, like, understanding about, like, the impermanence of money and how it can be spent. Like, it's so interesting to me because I came from very little money and didn't have generational wealth. Like, I am the type of person who's like, yeah, I got the Uber. Yeah. Like, I got the rental, whatever. You know, I. I'll get. I'll get it. I assume that it'll all come out in the wash eventually because my friend will get the Uber the next time, you know? But my friends who come for money or generational.
- [55:42]
B
I'm gonna Venmo you for the light bulb.
- [55:44]
A
Exactly. They're like, they get out of the Uber and they're like, okay, everybody venmo me317. And I'm like, I know you are so well off and yet you are the ones who are nickeling and diming all of the rest of your friends. And maybe that's why they have generational wealth and I don't, but it's just, it's insane to me. And so I would encourage young people to really, like, adjust their relationship to money in ways in which they can be a little bit more generous and remember how impermanent it is. And don't take out student loans.
- [56:15]
B
Live in abundance. Don't take out student loans. And that's the advice. Thank you so much for being here. Tell us what's next for you and where everyone listening can find you.
- [56:24]
A
Yes. So Lute Season 3 is out now. New episodes come out on Wednesday. You can find me on social media Hatejoekim I think Instagram is the only last remaining social media site that I'm really active on. And my podcast Bad Dates comes out every Monday on the Smartless Media Network. And you can listen to that wherever you get your podcast podcasts.
- [56:46]
B
Thank you so much for joining me.
- [56:47]
A
Thank you so much for having me.
- [56:49]
B
Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. If you like the episode, make sure to leave a rating and review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Got a burning financial question that you want covered in a future episode? Write to us via podcastourrichbff.com follow Net Worth and Chillpod on Instagram to stay up to date on all podcast related news and you can follow me me at yourrichbff for even more financial know how. See you next week. Bye. Thanks to Amazon for their support. The holidays are right around the corner and you've barely made it through your gift list. Well, no sweat because Amazon's got you covered. For your roommate who's super into tabletop role play games, you can get a beautiful unique dice set that'll make all their party members jealous. Or for your upstairs neighbor who has the heaviest stride no to man, you can get a nice pair of soft house slippers to keep them cozy and quiet this season. Shop Amazon for holiday deals now.